Jack and Liz vs. Will and Liz

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JaehSkywalker
i dunno.. maybe make this an official thread....

anyway, who do you want? jack and liz or will and liz?

discuss and debate, but don't bash people's head off like a bunch of rabd fangirls/boys.... erm

LovelyOne
judging by this site the majority want Jack/Liz

Some want Jack/Liz but think its going to be Will

Some are certain its going to be Jack/Liz based on loads of little hints in the movie.

very few are rooting for Will/Liz

I'm hoping Disney wont sell us out. I want them to go with Jack/Liz. If they didn't then a lot of people would be dissapointed..its like teasing hungry people with food and saying "no you cant have it!"

lovethemtigers
I was watching one of the clips last night and watched an interview with Keira. Here is what she said:

"I think with Elizabeth she's got quite a lot darker (in the sequel). The relationship with Will has progressed, well, it starts falling apart, in a way. And the one with Jack Sparrow grows into something rather interesting."

I think Disney realized alot of people thought Jack and Elizabeth were going to be a couple in Pirates 1, but when that didn't happen - and they saw how the audience liked the idea, they decided to give us what we wanted. I know, I know, I could be wrong...but I really think Disney is going to let Jack and Elizabeth be the couple....

Will looks very angry driving that knife into Tia's table. I think he remembers his promise to get his father off of Davy Jones' ship. His determination in finding Jack - is not so much Jack, it's really the Black Pearl. He may feel they need the Black Pearl to rescue his father - I think Will may strike a Bargain with Barboosa - After everything that has happen, I can't see him and Jack being friends - they've never really been friends. - more like acquaintance as Will refered to it himself.
I think he's going to realize that Elizabeth wants Jack - deep down inside - and he will turn darker in this movie. Just as Tia has predicted.

But then again, who knows???

LovelyOne
Originally posted by lovethemtigers
I was watching one of the clips last night and watched an interview with Keira. Here is what she said:

"I think with Elizabeth she's got quite a lot darker (in the sequel). The relationship with Will has progressed, well, it starts falling apart, in a way. And the one with Jack Sparrow grows into something rather interesting."

I think Disney realized alot of people thought Jack and Elizabeth were going to be a couple in Pirates 1, but when that didn't happen - and they saw how the audience liked the idea, they decided to give us what we wanted. I know, I know, I could be wrong...but I really think Disney is going to let Jack and Elizabeth be the couple....

Will looks very angry driving that knife into Tia's table. I think he remembers his promise to get his father off of Davy Jones' ship. His determination in finding Jack - is not so much Jack, it's really the Black Pearl. He may feel they need the Black Pearl to rescue his father - I think Will may strike a Bargain with Barboosa - After everything that has happen, I can't see him and Jack being friends - they've never really been friends. - more like acquaintance as Will refered to it himself.
I think he's going to realize that Elizabeth wants Jack - deep down inside - and he will turn darker in this movie. Just as Tia has predicted.

But then again, who knows???

WOW interesting interview quote! Keira also said in an interview that she "thinks her character likes the grubby dread locked kind of man"

I also agree with you on the whole Will turning darker in the next movie..that Tia hut scene was very overshadowing and sinister..its kinda hinting what's going to happen.

The Will/Liz relationship is like stale bread man..you cant enjoy stale bread because it tastes like crap..

I cant see their relationship resolving if its already falling apart..that Kiss must have been a huge blow to an already crumbling relationship..

Its so true though about the first one..I was thinking.."yeah she ended up with Will..but Jack would have been more interesting and funny.." The will/Liz relationship had already run its course by the end of the first one..Its satisfying enough for one movie..but they are making TWO MORE...

the Jack/Liz however relationship is STILL on everyones mind even after this movie.. its the number one talking point..it hasn't run its course yet like the Liz/Will one has. Disney still has alot to play with in the Jack/Liz department..It will be a more satisfying ending for sure if they pair up.

katelovespirate
i love you all. you make me happy. smile

i love that interview! hahaha. of course kiera would say something like that. she is so cheeky. i love that her character is getting darker. far more interesting. better for everyone, really.

you know, something i havent really thought about, because i underestimate will a lot:
Perhaps he was trying out a piraty nature in the last scene when he suggests going to get Jack. Because this was right after Tia gave him the hint that with the Pearl, he could rescue his father. So right now, the pearl is his only hope of fulfilling his oath.
BUT he doesnt want to sound heartless to everyone, so he candy-coats his "saving the pearl" scheme with a "saving Jack scheme."

He knows that way he can get the exceptional crew to help him do what he couldnt do alone... get the pearl. and by appealing to their sensitivity for Jack.

JaehSkywalker
i like will and liz no matter how i like jack...

and come on... some debate here.. erm *count me out big grin*

don't dissapoint me poeple.. erm

katelovespirate
oh i have been debating on various threads for many days now...

and my conclusions are this:
1. i want jack and liz to end up together. it makes sense, its hott, and it fits with the feel of the film.
2. i actually think there is a strong possibility it wont happen. no matter how convincing the arguments get, i am still split right down the middle on what i actually think will happen.
3. the movie will be great no matter what
4. i will be disappointed if liz and jack dont work out.

FG725
we all know that it's going to be Will/Tia and Barbossa/Liz it's just sooooo obvious stick out tongue

Pirate4Life
yeah right... lol

katelovespirate
haha thats the best sense i have heard in a while. clear as glass. but you forgot to mention the Jack/monkey pairng... LOL jk

LovelyOne
The critics would most certainly bash the decision of a Will/Liz ending...it will be like "oh Disney" roll eyes (sarcastic) you had the chance to end it on a bang..but you BLEW IT

I also think that Disney were a bit...uncertain about a Jack/ Liz pairing because of the debate they had over the kiss being in there... they must have realised "HEY star wars did it and it was well liked by the audience, so we can get away with it too"

Its a far more interesting relationship...I'm sorry but its true..The very fact that its the most talked about moment in the film shows us that its the most promising relationship to continue..people find it more interesting

When I watched it I was like.."Yeh Will...Liz..its the same old same old".I was actually REALLY relieved when Will found a new purpose in the movie..His dad..i thought it was far more interesting..It kept me interested in Will..but if he was just thinking of Liz throughout the movie I would have gotten tired of his character a bit..Just like I would have if Liz was only interested in Will...the two characters suddenly have much more purpose in the story now that their priorities are changing.

JaehSkywalker
Originally posted by LovelyOne
The critics would most certainly bash the decision of a Will/Liz ending...it will be like "oh Disney" roll eyes (sarcastic) you had the chance to end it on a bang..but you BLEW IT

I also think that Disney were a bit...uncertain about a Jack/ Liz pairing because of the debate they had over the kiss being in there... they must have realised "HEY star wars did it and it was well liked by the audience, so we can get away with it too"


they did get away with it...

but brought up 2 factions>> will and liz fans and jack and liz fans...

maybe they'd make jack liz's brother too.. laughing out loud stick out tongue

katelovespirate
Originally posted by LovelyOne
The critics would most certainly bash the decision of a Will/Liz ending...it will be like "oh Disney" roll eyes (sarcastic) you had the chance to end it on a bang..but you BLEW IT

I also think that Disney were a bit...uncertain about a Jack/ Liz pairing because of the debate they had over the kiss being in there... they must have realised "HEY star wars did it and it was well liked by the audience, so we can get away with it too"

Its a far more interesting relationship...I'm sorry but its true..The very fact that its the most talked about moment in the film shows us that its the most promising relationship to continue..people find it more interesting

When I watched it I was like.."Yeh Will...Liz..its the same old same old".I was actually REALLY relieved when Will found a new purpose in the movie..His dad..i thought it was far more interesting..It kept me interested in Will..but if he was just thinking of Liz throughout the movie I would have gotten tired of his character a bit..Just like I would have if Liz was only interested in Will...the two characters suddenly have much more purpose in the story now that their priorities are changing.

yes absolutely. the critics. love em. they would certainly have a hay day if things ended typically disney.
like we keep saying, Jack is the money of this film. give him what he wants.
yeah i mean, liz was okay in the 1st film, but once she started hanging out with Jack, she got MUCH more interesting.
The only times i like Will in the 2nd one is when he is with Jack.

LovelyOne
Originally posted by JaehSkywalker
they did get away with it...

but brought up 2 factions>> will and liz fans and jack and liz fans...

maybe they'd make jack liz's brother too.. laughing out loud stick out tongue

laughing out loud that would be disturbing..

They cant do that cuz of the first PotC where their blood didnt match..They have said they are bringing in a Will/Davy simerlarity this might split it up. It might be where Will realises that if he continues with liz its going to be an unhappy future..Tia seemd t pick up on this whole overshadowing, sinister Destiny of Will..Which could be cutting his heart out like Davy over the loss of Liz. but that would piss off the Will/Liz fans..but they DO only make a small fraction of the audience..

katelovespirate
^^^^ smile

Disney HAS to make someone mad in all this. they crossed a line (which IMO was great) put themselves in a tough spot and now they are going to have to make people mad. nothing like a good controversy to sell tickets, though Jack sells them anyways. smile

i'm concerned about Disney's ability to know what the public wants, as it has been using the same old formula for decades, and frankly, we all KNOW it is getting old.

Secretly, i think Will/Liz fans might even be slightly disappointed if things worked out all peachy... where is the fun or thrill in that?

But anyways, as i keep saying, they have a lot of explaining to do in the next one. We will probably start to see from the first minute who is going to get her, because they will have to explain away the other character from the very beginning.

all the actors are making comments about how this has grown from just a fun little movie to something artistic and darker. hopefully that means relationships will land away from where everyone thought they would originally.

whatever happens, IMO whoever Liz goes with, she will have to be free to choose with a clear conscsience in order for the movie to have a satisfying feel to it. that means a clean, friendly break with the other person. frankly, i cant see that happening with either of them.

lovethemtigers
Originally posted by katelovespirate
^^^^ smile

Disney HAS to make someone mad in all this. they crossed a line (which IMO was great) put themselves in a tough spot and now they are going to have to make people mad. nothing like a good controversy to sell tickets, though Jack sells them anyways. smile

i'm concerned about Disney's ability to know what the public wants, as it has been using the same old formula for decades, and frankly, we all KNOW it is getting old.

Secretly, i think Will/Liz fans might even be slightly disappointed if things worked out all peachy... where is the fun or thrill in that?

But anyways, as i keep saying, they have a lot of explaining to do in the next one. We will probably start to see from the first minute who is going to get her, because they will have to explain away the other character from the very beginning.

all the actors are making comments about how this has grown from just a fun little movie to something artistic and darker. hopefully that means relationships will land away from where everyone thought they would originally.

whatever happens, IMO whoever Liz goes with, she will have to be free to choose with a clear conscsience in order for the movie to have a satisfying feel to it. that means a clean, friendly break with the other person. frankly, i cant see that happening with either of them.

I agree. It was Disney who introduced and seduced us all into the whole concept of Liz and Jack being together. I always secretly yearned for it in Pirates 1 but thought it was just me....but then when Disney acts on it in Pirates 2 and I'm seeing all the other opinions similar to mine - I know I'm not crazy. The chemistry between Johnny and Keira on screen is phenomenal. I know she is a lot younger than him - but in hollywood age doesn't always seem to matter. On screen, to me, she comes across being in her early twenties and Jack being in his early to mid-thirties, so in movieland they are only 10 to 15 years apart. Not that strange for the 1700's at'll.

LovelyOne
I wonder if they were testing what the audience thought of Jack/Liz together with the first one.. Its like they gave us a little glimpse, alot of people seemed to like the idea..so they took it a step further with the next...alot of people like the idea even more now..so I hope they continue it again..I'm sure alot of people do too.

lovethemtigers
Jack and Liz vs. Will and Liz:

Banana Split with all the toppings vs. Plain Vanilla Ice Cream
8 oz. Juicy Steak vs. SPAM
Honolulu, Hawaii vs. Waco, Texas
Paris, France vs. Lincoln, Nebraska
Space Mountain Ride vs. Dumbo
Walt Disney World vs. Neighborhood Carnival

I mean if you wanted excitement and you could chose,
having either one was at your fingertips - which would you choose
Me, personally
Honolulu, Hawaii, Banana Split, 8 oz. Juicy Steak, Space Mountain, Walt Disney World and Paris, France (maybe we could run into Johnny)

LOL

ESB -1138
I don't think Jack should get Elizabeth. After all Jack is suppose to be the great pirate. Having Elizabeth would take away from his character.

lovethemtigers
I sure hope Disney knows what will make them the biggest boxoffice smash of all time with Pirates 3 and that's giving the audience what it wants - It is "Pirates of the Caribbean" after all, a movie that has already broken the usual Disney Mold.....The most daring Disney Movie of all time, with the most intriguing character of all time set in a very romantic time period - just seems so aniticlimatic to go back to Will.

Flying High
as much as i love jack...i dont want him and liz to be together smile

LovelyOne
how comes?^ smile

JaehSkywalker
Originally posted by Flying High
as much as i love jack...i dont want him and liz to be together smile

agreed.

it doesn't seem right for his character...

lovethemtigers
Why not, they are alot alike - as Jack says...people do change and grow. Pirates can find love. It wasn't unheard, ya know? Plus, it is a movie, meant to entertain and please and do whatever it takes to make the big bucks, so ya never know.

LovelyOne
Originally posted by JaehSkywalker
agreed.

it doesn't seem right for his character...

One thing to say...Characters ALWAYS change their priorities around in a trilogy...and even in a single story...they cant not change..they have to change a bit otherwise the story wouldnt be moving at all. So Jack is going to develop even if people dont want him to. His character is already very different to how it was in the first..His material possesions are becoming less important to him, people are getting closer to him..mainly Liz.

katelovespirate
<stamps foot like a little kid>
But i dont WANT liz to marry boring old Will! I want her to be with the pirate!
<continues throwing slight temper tantrum>

vegaofthelyre
I was just watching the Audio Commentary for DVD with the writers Ted Elliot and Terry Rossio (sp?) for Pirates 1 and discovered some VERY interesting things!

The scene before Jack escapes, he says, "Elizabeth, it would have never worked between us darling, I'm sorry"

At this point in the DVD, Ted (or Terry) says, "I love reaction to because there's definitely an element of 'Shut up, Jack" here...which is interesting because it brings up the question of how far was she willing to go on that island.. and how far DID she go on the island?

HMMMM... so they, too, have pondered the island question!

It was very heartening to know that our writers are somewhat on the same page as us... and that they were at least aware of this Jack/Liz dynamic from the first movie. Oh and I apologize if someone else has noticed this before and has already posted this bit up here. Just wanted to share laughing out loud

LovelyOne
Originally posted by ESB -1138
I don't think Jack should get Elizabeth. After all Jack is suppose to be the great pirate. Having Elizabeth would take away from his character.

LOL yeh sure..keep thinking that....He's not exactly the greatest pirate anyway because he tends to put peoples needs before his own. If he went With Liz..it wouldnt make him any different would it?..It would just mean he wins the girl over Will..which would make him the better character.

Look at wikipedia..it tells you that he's not really the greatest pirate ever..he's the person who THINKS he is..and he thinks that his possesions prove that he is thats why he's so possesive over them. He loses one and he will feel incomplete and weak. Its shows us that he needs something more in life than Rum, the Pearl, his hat if he really wants to feel stronger. The loss of his hat in the latest one shows us that its Liz who can make him feel complete, she's basically wearing the beloved missing part of him. He gets it back right at the end after he has just made Liz more like himself.."she's the girl for him!" It seems to be saying..She's just given him a boost of confidence IMO

LovelyOne
Dont believe me about the possesions making him feel stronger thing?

In PotC1 his rum gets burned. Rum resembles pirate..Rum gone..Jack completley looses his cool. The great and confident master of words is reduced to: "NO!, not good!, STOP!, not good!"

In Potc2 Jack wants his pearl. Without his pearl that means he's not a great pirate..he needs it back to proove to himself and others around him that he IS this great amazing pirate..if he really was then why feel the need to keep proving it?

In PotC2 Jacks beloved hat goes missing..he begins to doubt himself..he enters a state of confusion and worry..He feels incomplete..His beloved compass "stops working" for him and he is completley lost. Along comes Liz with his hat resembling the missing part of him and then notice how his confidence slowly comes back and his troubles with the compass dissapear..Liz symbolizes the long term solution to boost his confidence level. He gets it back after he wins her over at the end..meaning liz is the one for him. She is what makes him have that boost of bravery at the end of the Last one. her clinging to his leg probably meant everything to him.

Tia knows that Jack clings on to material possesions to feel safe and brave (jar of dirt) Take it away..and he becomes a bumbling scared idiot..."where is the thump thump?"

Liz is the answer to the problem..notice how as soon as he comes back for her..he is WILLING to let the pearl go?..He may not know it yet but She and other people are becoming far more important to him now compared with the Pearl..The people around him know that he is a brave man even wothout his mask..so there is no need to keep proving to them that he is the greatest with hats and rum and the Pearl...and there is no need to keep proving he is a ladies man..

katelovespirate
Originally posted by vegaofthelyre
I was just watching the Audio Commentary for DVD with the writers Ted Elliot and Terry Rossio (sp?) for Pirates 1 and discovered some VERY interesting things!

The scene before Jack escapes, he says, "Elizabeth, it would have never worked between us darling, I'm sorry"

At this point in the DVD, Ted (or Terry) says, "I love reaction to because there's definitely an element of 'Shut up, Jack" here...which is interesting because it brings up the question of how far was she willing to go on that island.. and how far DID she go on the island?

HMMMM... so they, too, have pondered the island question!

It was very heartening to know that our writers are somewhat on the same page as us... and that they were at least aware of this Jack/Liz dynamic from the first movie. Oh and I apologize if someone else has noticed this before and has already posted this bit up here. Just wanted to share laughing out loud


YAYAYAYAYAY!!!! HAhahaha.... YES!!! smile there it is. Its so true!!!!!! "Shut up, Jack!!!!! Dont go any furthur or Will might freak out and stop trusting me...." LOL>

Jack of Blades
First time i saw this tread Jack and Liz VS Will and LIz i thought this was a battle and who woud win

katelovespirate
thats what it is. its just that most people on this site (and in fact, most people in the world) support Jack and Liz. So we just sort of debate ourselves about little issues, and once in a while someone will disagree, and then our superior arguing skills come out, and they get scared and leave. wink
So what do you think, Jack of Blades? Who do you think she will end up with???

LovelyOne
when ever Jack is lost for words..I see that as THE most important and most revealing moment of his character..so does Johnny laughing out loud

katelovespirate
YES. i love those moments, even though they are few and far between. His character is AMAZINGLY eloquent in his own pirate way--- the way he chooses to put things, its lovely. so when he is lost for words, thats a special moment. lol. Lets see, when does it happen?

1. on the island when the rum is gone... (first time Lizzy tricks him/beats him at his own game...)

geee, i cant think of any other times.... anyone else have any thoughts?!?!

LovelyOne
the SECOND TIME SHE BEATS HIM laughing out loud

katelovespirate
THATS SO HOTTTTTTT> OMGSH> SO HOTTT> lol hehehehe

LovelyOne
LOL I KNOW!!

you know what I LOVED about the first time..He was about to shoot her when her back was turned but he thought better of it and ran away laughing out loud

Might symbolize that he's going to be a bit angry in the next but he will forgive her..

katelovespirate
yeah Jack has a HOTT temper... hehehehe. like we all say, she will have to do some serious persuasion... wink

I love it when Jack's temper blows up like that, its sooooo funny. but then when it is steady, like with barbossa, it is SCARY. Jack is dangerous. thats hott.

Flying High
ok...i couldnt be arsed reading all the posts since i last posted...so anyway stick out tongue


i reckon the Liz,Will,Jack thing is sorta like the Aragorn,Arwen,Eowyn from Lord of the Rings sorta thing...

Aragorn being Liz
Arwen being Will
Eowyn being Jack

it's like...theres a definate thing between aragorn and eowyn...but you know no matter what happens...he's still gona wana have Arwen...


(this just came to my mind...and isnt very well thought out...so it could be a whole lotta crap stick out tongue)

LovelyOne
Originally posted by Flying High
ok...i couldnt be arsed reading all the posts since i last posted...so anyway stick out tongue


i reckon the Liz,Will,Jack thing is sorta like the Aragorn,Arwen,Eowyn from Lord of the Rings sorta thing...

Aragorn being Liz
Arwen being Will
Eowyn being Jack

it's like...theres a definate thing between aragorn and eowyn...but you know no matter what happens...he's still gona wana have Arwen...


(this just came to my mind...and isnt very well thought out...so it could be a whole lotta crap stick out tongue)

Or its like Luke, Layah and Hans solo from star wars. Hans solo is more like Jack sparrow..the lovable rogue.

Layah ends up with Hans solo instead of boring Luke Skywalker. WHY you say? because its about 6 million times more interesting..and one of the most memorable partnerships in the history of movies..Hans Solo was the favorite of the audience over Luke..just Like Jack is compared with Will..

Hans solo also gets caught in carbonate/Giant Squid at the end of the second movie because of Layah.

Its more like Star wars pairing than anything else stick out tongue

Layah is just like Liz..a princess who longs for freedom and action

Hans solo the lovable rogue who wants the girl because they are a perfect match..

Luke is like Will... the WUSS of the picture who has to prove himself another way "SAVING HIS DAD" *cough* bootstrap bill *cough* and he loses the girl so that the rogue can have his win too.

LovelyOne
Originally posted by vegaofthelyre
I was just watching the Audio Commentary for DVD with the writers Ted Elliot and Terry Rossio (sp?) for Pirates 1 and discovered some VERY interesting things!

The scene before Jack escapes, he says, "Elizabeth, it would have never worked between us darling, I'm sorry"

At this point in the DVD, Ted (or Terry) says, "I love reaction to because there's definitely an element of 'Shut up, Jack" here...which is interesting because it brings up the question of how far was she willing to go on that island.. and how far DID she go on the island?

HMMMM... so they, too, have pondered the island question!

It was very heartening to know that our writers are somewhat on the same page as us... and that they were at least aware of this Jack/Liz dynamic from the first movie. Oh and I apologize if someone else has noticed this before and has already posted this bit up here. Just wanted to share laughing out loud

Know what else I find interesting. I personally think That Will is basically the old Norrington from CotBP but in DMC..

There seems to be alot of echoes going on with the first movie and the second. The writers said that at the very end, Norrington makes a change..He loves Liz so much that he puts her happiness ahead of His and lets her go with Will.

Will is the new underdog to JACK in the DMC...just like Norrington was with will in the last.

Its a pattern. Liz is told/thinks she should be with Norrington in the first movie but its NOT what her heart really wants..at this moment in the story Will can supply her with the mystery and excitement she needs. She's going to be engaged to Norrington but it gets halted because of Will.

In the next movie, we see that Will's just not enough for Liz. The marriage gets halted because of JACK. She thinks That Will is what she should have but its clearly not enough. Jack is getting under her skin.

In the End Will might just let Liz be happy and go with Jack because he loves her so much.

I'm not kidding there are so many things in movie one that echo what happens later on..primarily the first scene where Jack saves her life..almost everything he mentions/does is echoed later on in movie 2/3

Archangelysses
Actually, I have only seen POTC 2 once. So I cannot clearly recall what words were used, but was there a scene/dialogue that said there had to be a captain of the Flying Dutchman.

If so then it is clear that either Will or Jack will become the captian after the death of Davy Jones.

Now we come to the debate of which one.

Will - Possibly due to the darker side of him coming out and Liz kissing Jack, he may depose of Davy Jones only to end up becoming him

Jack - Because Liz talks to him about doing the right thing, would not Jack then do the right thing and leave Liz and Will together.

Even though I must admit I would like to see Liz and Jack together, I don't see it happening. Disney is in to making "Feel Good" movies. Unfortunately I don't see a real "Feel Good" ending to Liz and Jack. (Basically folks, it says that to leave the one you love for the one you lust after is ok. Don't get me wrong, that happens a lot in life, but Disney does try to paint a rainbow)

Archangelysses
Somehow, I don't see Barbossa ending up the captain of the Dutchman. Then it's just replacing an evil with another evil.

LovelyOne
Originally posted by Archangelysses
Actually, I have only seen POTC 2 once. So I cannot clearly recall what words were used, but was there a scene/dialogue that said there had to be a captain of the Flying Dutchman.

If so then it is clear that either Will or Jack will become the captian after the death of Davy Jones.

Now we come to the debate of which one.

Will - Possibly due to the darker side of him coming out and Liz kissing Jack, he may depose of Davy Jones only to end up becoming him

Jack - Because Liz talks to him about doing the right thing, would not Jack then do the right thing and leave Liz and Will together.

Even though I must admit I would like to see Liz and Jack together, I don't see it happening. Disney is in to making "Feel Good" movies. Unfortunately I don't see a real "Feel Good" ending to Liz and Jack. (Basically folks, it says that to leave the one you love for the one you lust after is ok. Don't get me wrong, that happens a lot in life, but Disney does try to paint a rainbow)

the Director has said that Will/Davy are mirroring eachother in terms of the love story and its going to play a big part in the next...Liz is turning away from him and becoming uncontrolable like the sea..just like Davy's Calypso.

Tia also seemed to pick up on some sinister Destiny of Will .You look at that scene where she is talking about what happened to davy it focuses heavily on Will and his disturbed reaction..the music is overshadowing and sinister. Tia also seems to know that Will is losing Liz.

so there always has to be a captain of the dutchman?

Archangelysses
Unfortunately I can't recall what exactly was said.

But I do get the strong feeling that Jack will trade places with Will at the end

LovelyOne
Star wars did it..remember that..and it was successful..the rogue got the girl instead of the wuss. Jack is the most favorite character..even the Children are going t be like "why didnt Jack get her? He's my favorite character" sad

the real feel good ending would be for JAck to get what he wants..which I think is Liz.

LovelyOne
Originally posted by Archangelysses
Unfortunately I can't recall what exactly was said.

But I do get the strong feeling that Jack will trade places with Will at the end

He cant do..because they are making a PotC4..and if Jack is too different people wont like it. People wont want to see Jack lose out to will...seriously..

I feel that maybe. Will's father will step into the position in order to save Will a load of pain..just like what he did with the whipping scene and with that lier's dice game thing... That scene was strange to have in the movie and slightly out of place..but it would make sense if it gets echoed some way in the future.

which is also similar to star wars..Darth vader sacrificed himself to save Luke, His son.

and Hans still ended up with Layah laughing out loud Boring luke didnt get the girl nd the movie was still an all time good feel movie..

Archangelysses
Yes, but difference is Disney to 20th century fox

Havent heard of pirates 4 where that info

LovelyOne
The director and Johnny have both said that they want to continue the character of Jack Sparrow and they probably are. If the 3rd movie is a success then it will be a certain. The link for the interview has been posted numerous times on this site..I cant remember where though.

The difference is 20th cent fox yes..but I personally don't look at these movies as typical kiddie Disney movies..These movies were so successful because they have overstepped the boundaries usually set by Disney(violent scenes of whipping, tonnes of sexual refrences,crows pecking out people eyes, dog's being left to die on islands)..I see adults going to these movies..and hardly any children....Adding a character like Jack Sparrow was a huge risk. The very fact they even contemplated a Jack/Liz thing in this move is way over the usual standards of a Disney movie..I feel as if I can expect it to end on a bang instead of a boring whimper. Will/Liz? "meh"..and thats what the majority audience will be saying too..if it was Will/Liz it will be "what a crappy way to end such a great trilogy.." the "Meh" was the factor of the last movie too..everyone knows they secretly wanted to see Jack/Liz get together..So guess what they did with the next movie? laughing out loud

If they decide to sell out and go with the norm..then A LOT of people are going to be pissed at Disney for teasing them with this exciting possibility and then saying "nah, nah, nah, nah, nah!! yoou cant have it!"

Also they seemed to have copied the story of Empire Strikes back to a Tee...with Hans/Jack being frozen/Eaten by a giant squid at the end after he realizes that Layah wants him..Jack relised that Liz wanted him at the end..hence the smug litle smile..and the whole hat thing..

Archangelysses
Personally I agree,

Jack and Liz have much better Chemistry and is even more a wrong side of the tracks. And better on screen story than will/liz

However, if Will becomes darker and more Piratey then maybe not so much meh

1: but he's a blacksmith, no, he's a pirate.

Although, I would prefer to see Disney actually do a movie that really does break new ground for them

LovelyOne
yeh I agree with you^^

I don't think Will will ever want to truly be a pirate. His father is a constant reminder of what can happen to you if you are. He had that discussion with him..telling his dad off for choosing to become one..and his father also says he doesn't want Will to ever be one..Thats going to come into play in the next movie I think.

..If Will loses Liz then gets an offer from the East India Trading Company (they have the heart) or even Tia (who is suspicious) to becoming the ultimate pirate (leader of the flying Dutchman). To him it's going to be a hard offer to turn down.If he feels as if he cant be what Liz wants him to be as a man..maybe he can become what he thinks she wants the: "ultimate pirate legend" by cutting his heart out . It's what happened to Davy I think. He wanted to be with the Sea goddess Calypso but she ran away..he obviously felt as if he couldn't be good enough for her as a man..and thought he might be good enough for her as a sort of "sea god" himself. (octopus face)

But I actually think that Will's father will step in to stop the worst from happening to his son.. He did it in the whipping scene..and he did it with the dice game..I think that was added to symbolize something bigger in the next..and its probably going to be stopping Will from making the mistake of cutting his heart out to satisfy Liz..because even if he does, He's still not going to get her back..Look at Davy, he never got Calypso back.

That also makes the whole "I don't care about staying on the Dutchman..what matters to me is the key" line to his father once Bill lost against Davy more symbolic... IMO thats totally whats going to be the argument later over Bill coming to save his son from his destiny... ithe argument is going to be: "dad..I don't care if I have to stay here forever ..its LIZ that matters to me" But Bill will probably stop it..and talk sense into him..I think Bill will sacrifice himself for his son one way or another to stop his son having a lonly destiny ahead of him. His dad managed to convince him that whipping him instead of the other man was an act of compassion..So he's probably going to be able to convince Will that he's doing it again for an act of compassion in the next movie..

thats just a theory of mine though^^^smile Probably just aload of crap..I just notice that in movies, small things that happen in one film usually symbolize something much bigger in the next...

Archangelysses
However, I think Jack may make some sort of actual chosen sacrifice in the next one

Not that he will die, It will be another of those "you will remember this day as the day you almost - - - - - - - - - "

LovelyOne
I agree..Liz already has... I think she is probably the first character who has changed drastically..Jack has changed a bit.He's beginning to show that he finds people more important to him than his material possessions. He's also becoming the legend..as opposed bending the truth about his past all the time......Its Will's turn to change the most. He is the honorable man..and we need to remember that the honorable men in the story..are actually the baddies...East India Trading company for example..I can imagine him betraying Liz and Jack for what he feels is the "right..thing"

katelovespirate
I agree with both of you a ton. i totally want Jack and Liz to be together, but Disney does paint the rainbow. it will take a LOT for them to make this work, if they do it. if they dont, it will be a let down.

i think its true what you said about the flying dutchman needing a captain. the questions are, how quickly will they kill of Jones?
I would put bets on Will being new captain of the dutchman, because Jack loves the pearl so much. i dont think he would willingly captain another ship if the pearl was around.

as for POTC 4, i have done some reading, and JD and the writers both have made comments that they arent done with the character. BUT i have also read from several sources that it would not be a sequel to this trilogy, it would either be a prequel or a very different story. AKA, this one will tie up nicely and wont leave things open-ended.

yeah i think Will's father is going to have some influence on him not to be a pirate anymore, etc. i have a lot of theories about that. smile

Archangelysses
Killing off and taking Davy's place will be the end sacrifice.

question is who

1.Will
2.Jack
3.Bill
4.Barbossa

LovelyOne
Well I suppose if Star Wars pulled of Layah going with Hans then so could PotC. I personally would love to see Jack finally be with someone who he cares about and trusts. And Liz too... Rather than his character learning nothing at all about showing his emotions to people by the end of it..Its just not realistic.

What of Will though..where is his ending? I seriously think its going to echo what happened with Norrington..Will is going to allow her to be happy with Jack.

I also think that he is going to come close to the edge and almost make the wrong decision based on his loss of Liz..but His dad is going to take the brunt of the pain for him just like he did twice before in the latest movie..he's also going to probably advise him to let Liz go...they would never be happy together ..especially if their rlationship really IS mirroring Davy Jones' relationship with Calypso..

the screenplay writer said this in the commentary..he has 5 rules:

1. No book ends
2. No book ends
3. Never kill the dog
4. always save the Kiss till last
5. Feel free to disagree with these rules.

I have a feeling the "no book ends" thing means no typical and set endings.the fact he says it twice must mean its important to him

"Never Kill the dog"..that means never let the rogue lose anything EVER..he always has to get out of it and win. Never kill him off for good (which would make the whole dog/Jack similarity in the latest movie more relevant)

Save the Kiss till last, In a single movie on its own its all about building up the tension of "are they going to do it?" Both PotC have done this so far...this probably means that in the next movie..we are going to be guessing until the very end who Liz actually chooses. ( its slightly different to what happened in ESB)

Feel free to disagree..I have no idea what the heck that means..is he talking to viewer or himself when writing screenplays..?

You can look at these rules whilst studying one movie on its own..and you can also use them to look at the overall story of a Trilogy.

Archangelysses
Interesting and valid points on all counts

katelovespirate
SCREW THE LEAKED SCRIPT.

I havent read it or anything, but it sounds awful. wink

LovelyOne, i couldnt agree with you more on all counts. thanks for posting those rules from the commentary. i LOVE those. smile

Maybe the Asian dude will take over the dutchman. lol.

JaehSkywalker
Leia can't have Luke because he's a bRoTher...

Han should have Leia because that's what's in the script stick out tongue no, but really, they we're meant to be w/ each other since 4... it was pretty obvious... well, if you look at the dog and cat fight thingy, then think about 'the more you hate the more you love' stuff. and they have Chemistry!! wOOt!

Jack should have liz because of their cheMisTry! They look so cool with each other!

WIll should have Liz because they look good with each other... though the chemistry is wearing off... erm

yep, i'm moving my vote from 'will' to 'jack'!

LovelyOne
Originally posted by JaehSkywalker
Leia can't have Luke because he's a bRoTher...

Han should have Leia because that's what's in the script stick out tongue no, but really, they we're meant to be w/ each other since 4... it was pretty obvious... well, if you look at the dog and cat fight thingy, then think about 'the more you hate the more you love' stuff. and they have Chemistry!! wOOt!

Jack should have liz because of their cheMisTry! They look so cool with each other!

WIll should have Liz because they look good with each other... though the chemistry is wearing off... erm

yep, i'm moving my vote from 'will' to 'jack'!

They cant make Will/Liz brother and sister..they have already shot themselves in the foot there with the whole blood thing in the first movie....so instead there is this whole Will/Davy similarity thing going on..also Bill turner..

The did look good together..but now Liz has totally changed..Whn i saw him kissing her on the beach...It didnt look right..

JaehSkywalker
agreed with liz changing. agreed with the davy'will similarity thing (which is too bad.. can't everyone have their own happy ending?) and agreed with the no-bro-sis thing.

yes

lovethemtigers
interesting posting going on here. Jack and Liz are awesome together. Were you guys like me, everytime they were in a scene together you would get excited and be like "I wonder what's going to happen'? Even in Pirates 1 - when he rescues her from the water - I was so into that scene especially when they were face to face. I was sure they were meant to be a couple. ...then, as the movie unfolded I saw I was wrong - I still thought there was a chance on the beach scene "Why is the rum gone?" But because the movie was so great and Jack is so great to look at and watch in action, i was okay with the Will/Liz pairing...but left wanting....So, POTC 2 comes along, and I leave the theatre, like "OMG, I can't believe that they actually did it (meaning having something develop romantically between jack and Liz)...cause we all know that the kiss at the end was way hotter than any kiss she ever shared with Will..the entire POTC 2 movie I was all giddy just like LIz each time she and Jack shared a scene....and why? because they have chemistry...
This isn't your typical Disney Movie, it's been rated PG13 - so who knows....I think the can still have a feel good ending even if Will doesn't end up with Liz - cuz as it's been pointed out - Luke Skywalker never got a girl, and he was initially interested in Princess Leiha till he discovered she was his sister and Star Wars ended Happy.

JaehSkywalker
agreed with SW.. big grin

maybe some people would create some sort of POTC 'EU' and make Will have a love

willofthewisp
Aw, does no one care what happens to Will? I didn't feel much at the end of Black Pearl when Will and Liz kissed, but I was getting hot just watching Jack and Liz, and they do have a trust and friendship and sort of understanding between them. They remind me of Rhett and Scarlett to be honest. But what about Will, the guy that would have given his life for her, that turned pirate for her, that hunted down Jack for her? And when they see each other on the beach, sorry, but I think they honestly are happy to see each other and the looks in their eyes show nothing but relief, like their world is back to normal. But I do find Jack/Liz irresistable. But then Will needs a beautiful, strong, loving woman too. Maybe in the next one, he'll find one and then we can all be happy, because I love Jack/Liz, but can't stand to see Will become the next Davy Jones.

katelovespirate
liz and jack are very much like Rhett and Scarlet. thats hott.

i dont know about Will. lol. wink

tia dalma
i'm rooting for jack and liz they suit each other way better. then again Jack loves anything in a skirt. Omg! if disney leave it as Will and Liz they will totally ruin the film, i mean the whole 2nd film was pratically devoted to the whole Jack/Liz relationship. The scenes between those two make the film funny, i mean the persuade me, and it should be a dress or nothing i happen to have no dress in my cabin.

has anyone noticed the same story is happening again:
Jack, Liz, Will
Davy, his ex fiance, whoever she ran off with

IE. Will and Davy were set to marry their fiance's
Both women have fallen in love with another man.

tia dalma
Originally posted by willofthewisp
Aw, does no one care what happens to Will? I didn't feel much at the end of Black Pearl when Will and Liz kissed, but I was getting hot just watching Jack and Liz, and they do have a trust and friendship and sort of understanding between them. They remind me of Rhett and Scarlett to be honest. But what about Will, the guy that would have given his life for her, that turned pirate for her, that hunted down Jack for her? And when they see each other on the beach, sorry, but I think they honestly are happy to see each other and the looks in their eyes show nothing but relief, like their world is back to normal. But I do find Jack/Liz irresistable. But then Will needs a beautiful, strong, loving woman too. Maybe in the next one, he'll find one and then we can all be happy, because I love Jack/Liz, but can't stand to see Will become the next Davy Jones.



Aw! i know i feel so sorry for Will but he doesn't have the same chemistry as Jack and Liz. Will fell in love with Port Royal Liz, as we know from the first film she has always loved pirates.

willofthewisp
Yeah, but I think the reason Will fell in love with her in the first place is because he knew she was a clever, resourceful, spirited young woman in addition to just being beautiful. He might want a more conventional life with her than Jack would, but I don't think he would try to tie her down or anything. Other than "guard the chest" he's never really told her what to do, and let's face it, guarding the chest was pretty important.
I prefer Jack/Liz myself just because they seem more alike than they realize, but I'll only be happy about that if Will meets someone else who will make him happy. He's a good guy, and even though he may seem boring, that's just because he's standing next to Jack. But he is willing to go pirate at times and is quick on his feet. He's been through a lot and deserves someone to love him. I don't want him to turn out like Davy Jones, and I don't understand what the point of the first movie was if he's just going to end up alone.

diddly-dum
To tell the truth, I think Liz is going to be confronted by Jack and Will then she'll make her choice.
But I want Will and Liz,.... they look better together!

willofthewisp
lol, they are the cleaner pairing. But I remember the first time I saw the first movie and thought it was kind of neat that Jack didn't steal her away from Will. I thought it was refreshing they could have the kind of understanding and admiration for each other and be nothing else. But I also thought she looked really stiff when Will kissed her and I just thought it was the dress. Liz isn't really a big fan of London fashion.
But I have to say, I like the Jack/Liz thing on the condition Will finds his happiness. They have formed a trust and respect and seem to already be friends, which is very good and implies this is more than just physical attraction. Then they're given some time to bond. And what's interesting is that when you save someone's life, you're bound to them, and all three have been saved and have saved the others by now.
Jack rescues Liz from drowning, she pleads for his life
Will goes on a desperate search for Liz
Liz is the only one to go back for Will when the pirates won't
Will and Liz both come between Jack and the guards
Jack comes back during the Kraacken scene and pretty much saves everyone

Fate bound the three forever, whether or not any of them end up together. I can see all three of them going their separate ways at the end of the third movie, only to know they'll all meet up again someday.

diddly-dum
Agreed

*jcd*gmc*
It's obvious that will/liz will end up together, unfortunately. it's disney--they're not going to teach viewers to betray other people.

CaptinJackLover
thats completely wrong...who cares if they dont want to teach viewers that but....if you havent noticed its a PG 13 movie. things have changed. and i doubt they want to encourage viewers to become pirates either

Chiki Mina
but it could certainly teach us that our fist love isnt always our only love. and i dont call it exaclt betraying..i really call it fate intervened..theres always a reason i believe

CaptinJackLover
^ so true! i agree with you 100%

Chiki Mina
yay its my fwiend captainjacklover!! *tackles her*

CaptinJackLover
HAHHA *ouch!* you tackle pretty hard! *tackles Chiki Mina* (payback time!)

Chiki Mina
eeek save me jack!! stick out tongue

CaptinJackLover
no jack! your mine remember!? we had a makout session in the norrington thread! lol....JACK IS MINE Chiki Mina..there is no way you will get him

Chiki Mina
oh yea..?gunsmilie

CaptinJackLover
that wont stop me! JAck is still onmy sidE! stick out tongue

Chiki Mina
nu uh hes on my side big grin *sticks tongue out*

CaptinJackLover
no way!

oh look who is there...its Jack! *jack comes up behind me and kisses me PASSIONATLEY* see! he is on my side! *cintinues to kiss him*

willofthewisp
Interesting conversation at lunch today. Carl is my fiance's name and he was teasing me about fantasizing about other men, which I truthfully do not do. It's him and him alone, uber-satisfying, enough said, and then he pulls this on me.
Carl: You know if Johnny Depp walked in here right and wanted you, you would do it and wouldn't think twice.
Me: He's a great actor and a very attractive man, but that's it. I'm sure you would drop me for, for (struggling)
Carl: Keira Knightley.
Me: She has small boobs like me
Carl: Well, she's not that pretty. She just came to mind after Johnny Depp

See? People pair them together now. If public opinion means anything...

CaptinJackLover
HE SAID SHE WASNT PRETTY!!! omg he is soo wrong!

willofthewisp
He only thinks I'm pretty, so so RIIIIIGGGGHHHHT
I said Keira Knightley was gorgeous and asked him if he liked Natalie Portman better. He said no.

CaptinJackLover
omg how sweet! usually guys would just say that sumone else is pretty withought even thinking about it

willofthewisp
aw. I feel very lucky. He's my Jack, my Phantom, my Batman......I could go on love Happy Dance

So it is a main reason I'm pulling for Jack and Liz. I don't think either one of them have been seriously in love before. Liz was infatuated with Will, barely even the idea of Will. I think she had the idea he was the leader in her rescue in the first movie. She was attracted to him and had been his friend, and now got it in her mind he was a pirate....so wrong.

CaptinJackLover
yupp soo true

sccch
Originally posted by CaptinJackLover
no jack! your mine remember!? we had a makout session in the norrington thread! lol....JACK IS MINE Chiki Mina..there is no way you will get him

James and I witnessed that kiss...

CaptinJackLover
those MANY kisses!

sccch
...yeah...Then you went from Jack to James then back to Jack again...I'm bored.....*goes back to Norrington thread*

CaptinJackLover
well cuz jack is hotter and sexier...but i still like norri

ill meet you there!

sccch
'k!

Lyna303
jackwillbattle ahh ha...

Darth Kreiger
What's going to happen to Will though?

Lyna303
...Originally posted by Darth Kreiger
What's going to happen to Will though?
wouldn't it be weird if they introduced a new girl...that would be crap...i think...no one would accept her

LovelyOne
Ok lets review Will/Liz relationship
Boring, dull, Flat empty looking kisses..a sort of brother sister vibe..which is really uncomfortable to watch...

Now Jack/Liz
Interesting, intense, heated! Rough and ready..incredibly intense kisses

What are the audience going to want to see more of on screen?

Boring chemistry..or HOT chemistry?

willofthewisp
Hot chemistry, please! Oh LovelyOne, you should get hired onto their staff. You would give us the movie we're all longing to see.

CaptinJackLover
YEAH DEFINATLEY! you need to like sit down with them and have a talk so that they know what all of us fans are thinking

willofthewisp
Just don't have Will end up being some cat lady living alone in a house full of newspapers at the end.

CaptinJackLover
hahahahha

blackpearl89
what about Liz out on her own? no Jack (which would be sad) or Will.

katelovespirate
i could see liz on her own. i can imagine that. but it wouldnt be sad... it would be kind of interesting. ya know, the cheery ending music picks up, and Elizabeth and Jack are fighting over who gets to stand at the helm of the Pearl, and Will is making fun of them, and they are all single but sailing off together, ya know? i could see that.

Chiki Mina
i think it would be funny if jack, will dump elizabeth and they both run off in the black pearl into the horizon while holding hands lol

LovelyOne
damn Disney what are you trying to do? seriously WHAT ARE YOU TRYING TO DO with PotC?

are you just teasing us with this Jack/Liz stuff?? are you really going to explain all of that away and then have her end up with William..after all the clues and hints that Jack and Liz were MADE for one another??

What possible good can come of squashing peoples hopes? The only way they will be able to make the Liz/Jack thing work in the long run is if Jack shows the audience..and I mean PROPERLY shows them that he wants Elizabeth more than anything else in movie 3..the audience at the moment cant seem to see the little hints that Jack really wants her in his life...its really annoying actually that they cant seem to see it..i suppose that is what Disney want though..they cant make it too obvious just yet..by movie 3...if he shows us that he really wants her and ends up with her..people will look back on movie 2 and say "OH YEA!! look he DOES want her, see that clue there..OMG why didn't i see that before?..movie 2 is AWESOME" laughing out loud

.and the only way the audience will accept a Jack/Liz thing will be if WILL accepts it TOO..

What ending will be the most satisfying..the only way a Jack/liz one will be satisfying..is if Will actually becomes unworthy of her and Jack becomes more worthy of her and KEEPS going after her....Jack is actually heading the right way..but Will..I honestly don't think he is..

Chiki Mina
i think a reasonable happy ending is jack and liz to finaly show thier feelings and get what they want from eachother. Will still being friends w jack and except that liz will be happier with him and that jack IS A GOOD MAN. This in return, Will will have a better gurl suited for mr turner and someone who could love him back more then elizabeth ever could.

Darth Kreiger
That would be incredibly stupid......no new girls, they can't destroy the Liz/Will thing though, if Will dies saving them, then it would be even worse.

There's too many Depp Fangirls here erm

Chiki Mina
IT DOESNT HAVE TO DO ANYTHING WITH DEPP OR MR BLOOM!! it doesnt have to anything with the actors!!! they can destroy the will/liz thing if they wanted and so with the jack/liz. we're just going by facts. im not a fanatic of jack/liz or will/liz. its just stupid. u have to have reasons to support ur theory from the movie to show jack/liz or will/liz will end up together.

willofthewisp
I just found Will and Elizabeth (and this could have been more Orlando and Keira's fault than anything) stiff with each other. They were way too formal to be lovers. There are a lot of outside factors, but they just do not give off the vibe they are a match, especially now that the writers made Liz go from spirited, resourceful high-class girl to total kickass heroine.
I said it on another thread, but we were reading The Odyssey in class and a girl said she would cast Johnny Depp as Odysseus because it reminded her of POTC. Then she said she would cast "the other guy" as Telemachus, Odysseus' son.
Her: And I had the other guy as Telemachus. You know, what's his name? The wimpy guy.
Me: Orlando Bloom?
Her: That's him!

See? Will is "the wimp." He's not the leading man. Everyone has figured out by now he is second banana to Jack, even Will himself, and let me tell you, Will does not like that. He's going down an evil path whereas Liz was just going down the petty theif path.

willofthewisp
Question, mainly for LovelyOne, or anyone else, but I just had a thought. Is there any symbolism to the Black Pearl's name? I mean, it was crucial in the first movie and it's Jack's girl, basically (until a certain aristocrat turned pirate showed up). Can we gather any hints from the ship's name or the ship itself on what might happen?

Chiki Mina
well i have a thoery which i might be WAYYY OFFF!! well i think the "pearl" part he named it because since pearls are supposed to be the most precious jewels and the most beautiful, to him that ship is beautiful bc it gives him freedom. so that ship is precious to him like a pearl. the "black" part should be well physically..the way the ship is, it has black sails. OOORR couls be since davy jones summoned the pearl it couls be wicked like BLACK magic...its just my opinion.

LovelyOne
Originally posted by willofthewisp
Question, mainly for LovelyOne, or anyone else, but I just had a thought. Is there any symbolism to the Black Pearl's name? I mean, it was crucial in the first movie and it's Jack's girl, basically (until a certain aristocrat turned pirate showed up). Can we gather any hints from the ship's name or the ship itself on what might happen?

lol @ the aristocrat pirate thing laughing out loud

Ah!! I think it was mentioned in the commentary of movie 1 as to what it meant..It was something of beauty and something else..like something to make it sound beautiful,precious but also powerful.

...I cant rememeber laughing out loud

Chiki Mina
well then my theory is way off then loool

LovelyOne
I cant remember though...I'll listen to the commentary again soon..it was definalty beauty and something laughing out loud I just cant remembr the something

Chiki Mina
again...my theory was wayy off lol i should scratch what i wrote lol

willofthewisp
It just made me wonder if there were any similarities between the ship and Liz. The Black Pearl is technically a woman and the number of women in POTC is very limited.
I agree with Chiki that pearls are very rare and valuable. And I'm not sure if black pearls even exist. It just made me think of something that could be beautiful and pure and yet dangerous and mysterious at the same time, which brought me to Liz. She's still pretty pure, although LovelyOne will probably argue that her sin of tying Jack and leaving him probably caused her to lose her innocence, but she's also dangerous and an extremely rare kind of girl.
So maybe whatever the Pearl's fate is is also Liz's.

Chiki Mina
Originally posted by willofthewisp
It just made me wonder if there were any similarities between the ship and Liz. The Black Pearl is technically a woman and the number of women in POTC is very limited.
I agree with Chiki that pearls are very rare and valuable. And I'm not sure if black pearls even exist. It just made me think of something that could be beautiful and pure and yet dangerous and mysterious at the same time, which brought me to Liz. She's still pretty pure, although LovelyOne will probably argue that her sin of tying Jack and leaving him probably caused her to lose her innocence, but she's also dangerous and an extremely rare kind of girl.
So maybe whatever the Pearl's fate is is also Liz's.


OMG GOOD OBSERVATION!!^^^ Liz has lost her inocence in a way that makes her more dangerous. Shes dangerously beautiful but still pure, untouched by men. untamable as the sae, hard to catch. i think thats how the pearls is. the only diference is other than its a ship is that it is touched by jack/man. liz is still untouched so it makes her hard to get. Shes as dangerosu, beautiful, and unique as the black pearl!! so willofthe wisp had a good observation.

katelovespirate
i love it. totally agree. nice work. smile


here is my new solve all.

THEY ARE PIRATES AND THIS IS A PIRATE FILM. pirates dont sail away with blacksmiths to go live in a white house. they experiment and tempt each other and fall in love with the wrong person and swash and buckle and betray and have hot sex. i mean, come on. disney or not, thats a pirate.
so they are pirates. its a pirate film. Liz and Jack forever. end of discussion. big grin

You know, I was thinking. We have this wonderful theory (which the director has confirmed) about Will's story following Davy Jones.

IMO, it could go the other way. Maybe JACK would come close to cutting his heart out. HAHA i know, shut up Kate, but i could sort of picture Jack getting a bit off... ya know, he's battling Jones at some point, and Jones reminds Jack how he can never have Elizabeth since she is engaged to Will, that sort of thing, and then Jack gets a bit depressed... you know? i know im crazy. lol.

Chiki Mina
no kate ur not crazy!! I was thinking the exact thing for jack/davy thing. I just didnt have the guts to mention it lol

LovelyOne
I'm convinced that its not Jack its going to happen to..she left him and he loved her for it laughing out loud

She leaves Will..and he turns into a jerk..

willofthewisp
I'm not sure it would really bother Jack if Liz was engaged. That kiss kind of implied it was all over anyway.

shannstar79
I think is should be Jack and Liz. I love thir chemistry
Ever noticed how thier last manes are both Birds, Sparrow and Swann, Maybe that means they will fly( sail) away together in the end smile

LovelyOne
Originally posted by willofthewisp
I'm not sure it would really bother Jack if Liz was engaged. That kiss kind of implied it was all over anyway.

uh.....what?...its in no way over after that kiss..did you not see her staring at his lips trying desperatley not to kiss him again ..even he went in to kiss her again.. stick out tongue .. he saw that she still wants him and smiles with pride "pirate"..as in "Ah so you aint really Wills then ay? you are MINE *****!"..he's gonna keep chasing after that key believe me..

katelovespirate
Jack's character has taken on a new level of clarity for me. i HAVE to go see the movie again, to get the full effect.

I originally thought that Jack honestly didnt know what he wanted, and didnt start thinking about Liz till she showed up.

But with this news from Ted, its pretty clear Jack has wanted her all along, and that is really hott.

its like, little by little throughout two, Jack is getting more and more of what he wants.

it also makes me think Jack is testing them both... testing WIll to see if he really wants Elizabeth, and testing Elizabeth to see if she would really be happy with Will. you know?

So once Will gets on the kick about his dad, Jack's attitude towards him changes somewhat. do you notice that?

And once Elizabeth kisses him, he realizes she WONT be happy with Will.

make sense? smile

blackpearl89
I feel kinda bad for Will though. He's a good guy really and he really cares for Liz. I mean its not really his fault he's not as awesome as Jack.

willofthewisp
No, LovelyOne. I meant to say that the kiss showed things were over between Liz and WILL. Sorry if I was unclear. I saw her go in for another one.

blackpearl44
Originally posted by LovelyOne
uh.....what?...its in no way over after that kiss..did you not see her staring at his lips trying desperatley not to kiss him again ..even he went in to kiss her again.. stick out tongue .. he saw that she still wants him and smiles with pride "pirate"..as in "Ah so you aint really Wills then ay? you are MINE *****!"..he's gonna keep chasing after that key believe me..

I agree.....as always big grin

blackpearl89
Sorry if I'm interrupting but I think this is a really interesting topic. I also agree with blackpearl44. smile May I join your disscussion?

Lizzy1212
I think Will and Elizabeth should stay together. smile

sailorleo
Originally posted by Lizzy1212
I think Will and Elizabeth should stay together. smile .oh you poor thing...i'll pray for you...

CaptinJackLover
hahahah

blackpearl44
Originally posted by blackpearl89
Sorry if I'm interrupting but I think this is a really interesting topic. I also agree with blackpearl44. smile May I join your disscussion?

Sure, of coarse you can smile

Chiki Mina
I hope Will and Jack become friends again. They work so great as a team they watch their backs for eachother the problem is that they watch their backs against eachother too(<<does that makes sense??)
Anyways hopefully Will will see Jack as a good pirate and a good man. I hope they can still be friends/aquintance, hopefully Will will come to realize that liz is gonna be happy with jack and that jack will make her happy. I really feel awefully bad for Will but i shouldnt pitty him bc im sure he'll find a better suitor than elizabeth.

willofthewisp
Lizzie12, may I please ask why you feel that way? I won't try to argue with you or anything. I just want to know.

willofthewisp
PS: Sorry I spelled your name wrong.

Kairiminé
honestly Will turner is a stick in the mud..jack sparrow isn't..they both make good couples with liz..who would i choose..i don't know i am not a match maker

willofthewisp
How are Liz and Will a good match? The critics blasted their relationship, saying it left Keira Knightley as little more than the token love interest and that she and Orlando Bloom are very stiff and have no chemistry. True, anyone looks stiff next to Jack, but they proved in the second movie they can loosen up. Were they just bad actors in the first one and then suddenly were able to show depth? I'm just thinking their characters don't mesh well.
Liz is too much of a pirate at heart to settle down. What could possibly attract her to Will?
What could Will possibly be attracted to in Liz? They just don't seem to have anything in common and there is never a scene with the two of them just being together. They're always explaining things to each other or fighting evil together and whatnot. They don't have the preump the curiosity scene had, where she and Jack were just sitting around being themselves.
Their faces! Come on! Will has two looks when he sees Liz, the puppy dog look that is well, pathetic, and then stern, oh-liz-what-were-you-thinking look. He gives this one to her less often. Liz has several different facial expressions and even her eyes seem to express her feelings when she's around Jack.

Jacky Sparrow
I totally agree with you willo.

In wikipedia is written that:

Knightley accurately sums up this character with the words, "She's some kind of modern girl stuck in the world of the 18th century." Elizabeth, in essence, has the capacity to act with the propriety and breeding of a noble lady, or with the wit and will of a pirate wench. Elizabeth often desires more independence than would normally be given to a woman of her rank during the 18th century.

So why should she coose Will???????? And give up the pirate life?

blackpearl44
SHE WOULDN'T!! that's a good exerpt smile

katelovespirate
Originally posted by Chiki Mina
I hope Will and Jack become friends again. They work so great as a team they watch their backs for eachother the problem is that they watch their backs against eachother too(<<does that makes sense??)
Anyways hopefully Will will see Jack as a good pirate and a good man. I hope they can still be friends/aquintance, hopefully Will will come to realize that liz is gonna be happy with jack and that jack will make her happy. I really feel awefully bad for Will but i shouldnt pitty him bc im sure he'll find a better suitor than elizabeth.

oh gee... personally i dont think jack ever wanted to be will's friend. i think he views will as a lower life form than himself. lol. it was will who randomly saved Jack at the end of one- to impress liz. jack never goes to will for anything. wink

Jacky Sparrow
yeah you're right. Will is to stupid for Jack and Liz. So why should he have such a friend?

Chiki Mina
u have a point kate!! Maybe i guess Will did that to impress liz! but really lets just hope at the end they could at least shake hands

lovethemtigers
Yeah Jack constantly refers to Will as Stupid Bloody Will...or Poor Will, one time he calls him Brave William....but he sends Will over to the Dutchman in exchange for his soul...he whacks him over the head with a paddle...and he tells Norrington it is really Will he should be blaming all his misfortunes on instead of him...that is one of my favorite non-liz moments in the movie:

Let us examine that claim for a moment,
former Commodore, shall we? Who was
it, who at the very moment you had a
notorious pirate safely behind bars,
saw fit to *free* said pirate, and take
your dearly beloved all to hisself,
hey? So who's fault is it, *really*,
that you've ended up a rum-pot deckhand
what takes orders from pirates?

So I really don't think Jack is too worried about being friends with Will...but yet he does have a fondness for Will's father...Bill Turner.

willofthewisp
I love that part, too.

Not to get too far off topic, but there was some debate some time ago that Jack/Liz would never work because Liz is really Calypso. Well, we're reading The Odyssey in class and while it has several things in common with POTC, it offers an interesting description of Calypso.

She is the nymph "with lovely braids" who makes her home in a cave, surrounded by a luscious, Eden-like island. She is described as lustrous.

Now, this might be something. She's captured Odysseus and is trying to make him love her when all he wants is Penelope and he eventually says this to her, "Look at my wise Penelope. She falls far short of you. She is mortal and you never age or die. Nevertheless, I long, I pine, all my days to travel home and see the dawn of my return."

Since Tia and Jack have clearly had a relationship, could the writers be drawing a comparison?

LovelyOne
yeah..I picked up on that a while back lol..
Jack will probably deny immortality to get home to Liz..who has probably just died at the hand of Will

In my opinion this is where the whole circe aspect comes in too Circe is a witch..and Tia is a wicth too..when she's in human form..She's going to offer to make Will forget his past with Liz..and everyone..But liz will NOT and Jack wont either

Circe offeres magically drugged drinks to people..to make them forget their past..notice how in movie 2..tia hands out drinks as a way to "ease the pain of Jack" everyone drinks but Liz/eurylocus...and Jack /Odysseus who his not present..he wasnt present in th odyssey either at this point..

Also..Odysseus only denies immortality because he KNOWS Penelope is in danger of being killed by "the bad suitors" *cough Will cough* Norrington *cough*

willofthewisp
It borrows, or at least draws so much from The Odyssey, which was really the first adventure at sea, confronting the unknown, all in the name of being with who you love. That's what's made it stay around for so long. Odysseus sees so much, experiences so much, but yet what his compass points to is back home to the love of his life and his son.
POTC has that element, that in the midst of all these pirate adventures, we're not sure what their compasses point to. We get a glimpse in the second movie, but it will take the next one to know for sure.

ivebeendepped43
lalalalala

lovethemtigers
Originally posted by willofthewisp
I love that part, too.

Not to get too far off topic, but there was some debate some time ago that Jack/Liz would never work because Liz is really Calypso. Well, we're reading The Odyssey in class and while it has several things in common with POTC, it offers an interesting description of Calypso.

She is the nymph "with lovely braids" who makes her home in a cave, surrounded by a luscious, Eden-like island. She is described as lustrous.

Now, this might be something. She's captured Odysseus and is trying to make him love her when all he wants is Penelope and he eventually says this to her, "Look at my wise Penelope. She falls far short of you. She is mortal and you never age or die. Nevertheless, I long, I pine, all my days to travel home and see the dawn of my return."

Since Tia and Jack have clearly had a relationship, could the writers be drawing a comparison?

If this is true,,,,then Tia is most definitely Calypso, Jack is Odysseus and Liz is Penelope....but don't think Disney is mirroring Greek Mythology...

sailorleo
you better hope not....rememebr what they did to the little mermaid (albeit my fav movie) and hercules (they couldn't even commit to roman or greek names)

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