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I was watching the end of a show about the antichrist on the Discovery channel, and there was this guy who made the statement that people who take Revelations literally are simple minded people. He clamed that they cannot understand complex coded imagery, and they want it to be simple. Did you see the show, and what do you think?

I haven't seen the show, but I'm inclined to agree with the man.
Of course, I'm not criticizing people's beliefs, but for me at least, in order to believe something, I have to see some sort of proof that it's real.
"Simple minded" maybe isn't the right term, "gullible" sounds better.
For more than a thousant years religion itself was practically used to control the masses of "simple minded" people.

Revelations holds a lot of imagery. It was not meant to be interpreted. No guesses we can make will ever be entirely right about its meanings. I believe that to truly understand some of the deeper meanings hidden within the Bible it is impossible to be simple minded.

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
... people who take Revelations literally are simple minded people. He clamed that they cannot understand complex coded imagery, and they want it to be simple. Did you see the show, and what do you think?

First some thoughts:

Time flows and everything has a symbol or type in history.

Given this, the symbols and types are difficult to grasp as to the entire meaning, or proper meaning.

Revelations is complex due to aspects that may be literal and aspects that may be wholly symbolic, as well as time frame is not well described in Revelations. Anyone that claims that the text of Revelations is wholly "complex coded imagery" is making it too simple.

One must remember that, if the events in Revelations refers to our time or later, many things that John saw may have been beyond his understanding or capability to place appropriately into words.

Our prophet, the LDS prophet, made a statement concerning these verses during one of our worldwide conferences.

Revelations 14:6-7

6 And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people,
7 Saying with a loud voice, Fear God, and give glory to him; for the hour of his judgment is come: and worship him that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters.

Stating that this verse was in reference to the satellites that were broadcasting the his words to the LDS people throughout the world. Given this it could be said that this verse would be considered literal by the LDS people.

My opinion:

When Christ came the first time the educated men of Jewish religion, for the most part, did not recognize him. The Sadducees and Pharisees had preconceived notions as to what he would be. If Jesus was the Christ, as I believe, then these preconceptions were in error, even while being based in scripture. Now, I believe this to be a type of what will occur at his second coming. People will have preconceptions about the method of his coming, many will be wrong. Those that recognize what occurs for what it is will be those that are open minded enough to understand that their preconceptions were in error. Therefor, I have my opinion of what it will be like, but I understand that just about anyone else may be more correct as to their view of how it will occur than I am. Or maybe everyone is wrong. Making statements that demean other's views is a poorly considered and educated manner of behavior that ignores the mistakes made by those that were well educated religious men in history.

You can't say that.

Think of clergymen, etc. Many of them are Doctors, historians, etc., and would hence require higher-intelligence.

BTW:
LDS = "Latter Day Saints"?

Originally posted by Nellinator
Revelations holds a lot of imagery. It was not meant to be interpreted. No guesses we can make will ever be entirely right about its meanings. I believe that to truly understand some of the deeper meanings hidden within the Bible it is impossible to be simple minded.

Lol, people should stay away from making absolute statements as to these things, especially if "no guesses we can make will ever be entirely right about its meanings."

Originally posted by Regret
Lol, people should stay away from making absolute statements as to these things, especially if "no guesses we can make will ever be entirely right about its meanings."
I agree with you. My wording did not properly convey my meaning. I am trying to say that while we can interpret it is important not to take any interpretation as fact because we can not know for certain until it has already happened.

Originally posted by Nellinator
I agree with you. My wording did not properly convey my meaning. I am trying to say that while we can interpret it is important not to take any interpretation as fact because we can not know for certain until it has already happened.

I agree.

Originally posted by Regret
I can say it and did.

I'm sorry, but the most knowledgeable Jewish scholars of Christs day said he was not Christ because he did not fit their view. The most knowledgeable Religious scholars of our day are not necessarily correct either. It is probable that similar will occur as to preconceptions.



Yes

Nae, I was referring to the first poster saying that "believers" are simple-minded.

I don't think they are simple minded. But they are deluding themselves.

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
I was watching the end of a show about the antichrist on the Discovery channel, and there was this guy who made the statement that people who take Revelations literally are simple minded people. He clamed that they cannot understand complex coded imagery, and they want it to be simple. Did you see the show, and what do you think?

Hey Shaky.

Yeah, I saw it last night, but it was the history channel, no?


Anyway, that was one point of view.

Many were given throughout the show, from Bible-beliveing preachers, to scholars, to historians, etc....

Some claimed that writings of "an evil leader who sets himself on high, even above God and rules the earth" may have only been a Muslim king of the day, or Roman emporer Nero, etc....

Some made the claims that you mention, that revelations is all imagery and subtext, and not to be taken literally.


While others claim that the "leader" would indeed be the anti-christ, and that Revelations is to be taken literally.

My thoughts: They are two different interperations, two different points of view, about the same text.

Since the author is not around to ask, and all the people on each side of the debate are college-educated professionals, its hard to say that either side has "got it right" for sure.

So are Christians simple-minded for taking Revelations literally?
(without proof.)


Yes.

But no more so than those who say that Revelations is not true, or is misunderstood, when all they have are guesses as to what it could be talking about.

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
I was watching the end of a show about the antichrist on the Discovery channel, and there was this guy who made the statement that people who take Revelations literally are simple minded people. He clamed that they cannot understand complex coded imagery, and they want it to be simple. Did you see the show, and what do you think? Yes, only because first..Visions are symbolic.........second, is you have to take them at the meaning at the time period (which is not being done).......for instance the (weeping and nashing of teeth)........this is what middle easterns do even now (if you watch the news).......see the sounds the make??......and at that time it was even worse.....the dressing in sack cloth...and the ashes on their heads....

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
I was watching the end of a show about the antichrist on the Discovery channel, and there was this guy who made the statement that people who take Revelations literally are simple minded people. He clamed that they cannot understand complex coded imagery, and they want it to be simple. Did you see the show, and what do you think?

* the Bible (in its entirety) is not always figuratively written... the book of Revelation also had its share of literal passages, not all are figurative (although majority really is)...

Originally posted by peejayd
* the Bible (in its entirety) is not always figuratively written... the book of Revelation also had its share of literal passages, not all are figurative (although majority really is)...

But how can you tell for certain what is figurative and what is literal?

I heard this interpretation of Sodom and Gomorra:

I heard that God had not punished the men for homosexual acts, he had punished them for committing rape, for forcing younger men to engage in unwanted sexual acts with them, while at the same time promoting violence against all who would resist being raped...etc.

I could be mistaken, but this would make sense to punish. It doesn't make sense for a Loving God to burn down a city, just because a bunch of men wanted to have consentual sex...

Originally posted by sithsaber408
Hey Shaky.

Yeah, I saw it last night, but it was the history channel, no?


Anyway, that was one point of view.

Many were given throughout the show, from Bible-beliveing preachers, to scholars, to historians, etc....

Some claimed that writings of "an evil leader who sets himself on high, even above God and rules the earth" may have only been a Muslim king of the day, or Roman emporer Nero, etc....

Some made the claims that you mention, that revelations is all imagery and subtext, and not to be taken literally.


While others claim that the "leader" would indeed be the anti-christ, and that Revelations is to be taken literally.

My thoughts: They are two different interperations, two different points of view, about the same text.

Since the author is not around to ask, and all the people on each side of the debate are college-educated professionals, its hard to say that either side has "got it right" for sure.

So are Christians simple-minded for taking Revelations literally?
(without proof.)


Yes.

But no more so than those who say that Revelations is not true, or is misunderstood, when all they have are guesses as to what it could be talking about.

Yes, I think it was the history channel, now that I think about it. And I only saw the last part of the show. I will have to see if I can ketch it on a repeat.

Nearly anything from 'religion' has to be taken largely as a metaphor, or else it falls apart under scrutiny.

Simple-minded might be taking it a bit far, but it's probably on to something about the human desire to keep things simple even in the face of reason.

The Catholic Church has never, or at least not for a very long time, insisted that the Bible must be read literally. Allegorical and metaphorical readings have long been standard, in contrast to fundamentalist approaches.

VATICAN CONDEMNS LITERAL INTERPRETATION OF THE BIBLE
VATICAN CITY, Italy - The Vatican criticized a literal interpretation of the Bible and said the fundamentalist approach to scripture was a kind of intellectual suicide. A Vatican document said fundamentalism refuses to admit that the inspired Word of God has been expressed in human language... by human authors possessed of limited capacities and resources.
The 125-page document, The Interpretation of the Bible in the Church, was written by the Pontifical Biblical Com-mission, a group of scholars who assist the Pope in the study of scripture. It noted that a fundamentalist interpretation of the Bible had been gaining strength. The Vatican is increasingly concerned about the number of Catholics, especially in Latin America, who have abandoned the church for fast-growing fundamentalist sects. The fundamentalist approach is dangerous, for it is attractive to people who look to the Bible for ready answers to the problems of life, the document said. Fundamentalism actually invites people to a kind of intellectual suicide. A fundamentalist interpretation of the Bible began during the Reformation, when Protestants showed an increasing concern for fidelity to the literal meaning of scripture.
The document said fundamentalism refused to admit that there was a human element in the transmission of the Word of God. One member of the commission, Jesuit Father Joseph Fitzmeyer, said fundamentalists failed to recognize that several years elapsed between the time Jesus spoke and the time when the gospels were written. There was no stenographer, no one with a tape recorder on that time, said Fitzmeyer. The Star, 1994 Manila, Philippines VATICAN.

Catholic Church no longer swears by truth of the Bible

And so the Catholic Church is starting to crumble. They have forsaken their greatest principle and the backbone to their belief.
"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God" John 1:1.
"All scripture is God-breathed" 2 Timothy 3:16.
"My words will never pass away" Matthew 24:35.

This Jesuit Father is obviously not a supporter of the idea of divine inspiration and that is his choice. I choose to disagree with him. It is as peejayd said: some verses are figurative, others are literal, some are even both. Sometimes it is clear what is figurative and what is literal. Sometimes it is not and that is why we must study the scripture so that we may uncover the mysteries that it holds.
"But there is a God in heaven who reveals mysteries" Daniel 2:28.

Originally posted by Nellinator
And so the Catholic Church is starting to crumble. They have forsaken their greatest principle and the backbone to their belief.
"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God" John 1:1.
"All scripture is God-breathed" 2 Timothy 3:16.
"My words will never pass away" Matthew 24:35.

This Jesuit Father is obviously not a supporter of the idea of divine inspiration and that is his choice. I choose to disagree with him. It is as peejayd said: some verses are figurative, others are literal, some are even both. Sometimes it is clear what is figurative and what is literal. Sometimes it is not and that is why we must study the scripture so that we may uncover the mysteries that it holds.
"But there is a God in heaven who reveals mysteries" Daniel 2:28.

Respectfully, the only problem I have with your point of view is, that can leave a person in a position to be controlled by people with evil intent.

How so?

Originally posted by Nellinator
How so?

Example: Jim Jones.

I don't think anything like that would happen. I ground myself in the teachings of the whole Bible. I study more on my own with the intent purpose of avoiding being misled. That is why I have recently left my denomination. But you never know...

Originally posted by Nellinator
I don't think anything like that would happen. I ground myself in the teachings of the whole Bible. I study more on my own with the intent purpose of avoiding being misled. That is why I have recently left my denomination. But you never know...

I am not saying that it will happen to you, but it does happen. When you think that there is a mystery that needs to be revealed to you, and you are outward looking, chances are you will look to another person for guidance. This is were someone with blind faith is at most risk of being controlled by someone with evil intent.

Originally posted by Nellinator
And so the Catholic Church is starting to crumble. They have forsaken their greatest principle and the backbone to their belief.
"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God" John 1:1.
"All scripture is God-breathed" 2 Timothy 3:16.
"My words will never pass away" Matthew 24:35.

This Jesuit Father is obviously not a supporter of the idea of divine inspiration and that is his choice. I choose to disagree with him. It is as peejayd said: some verses are figurative, others are literal, some are even both. Sometimes it is clear what is figurative and what is literal. Sometimes it is not and that is why we must study the scripture so that we may uncover the mysteries that it holds.
"But there is a God in heaven who reveals mysteries" Daniel 2:28.

The Catholic Church's greatest principle, or at least what they consider their greatest principle, is tradition. Tradition is what the Catholic Church is centered on, not scripture. If tradition disagrees with some logical interpretation of scripture tradition will win out.

Yet, most of their teachings are based on the words of Christ. If they call the words of Christ inaccurate, they call their teachings inaccurate. That is my point.

its more logical to take whats WRITTEN in account literally than find some hidden meaning which can only be found by a smart person as compared to the general populace in a book meant for the entire humanity, it might be true that only people with complex minds TRY to find something hidden in the bible but that doesnt make them any better or righter{in the relegious sense} than people who take it literally.

its all bull anyway.

Originally posted by leonheartmm
its all bull anyway.

Isn't that the problem with literal interpretations?

yes. most literal interpretations are bull. but trying to prove correct what is blatantly wrong by looking at it INDIRECTLY is not much better is it?

Originally posted by leonheartmm
yes. most literal interpretations are bull. but trying to prove correct what is blatantly wrong by looking at it INDIRECTLY is not much better is it?

Yes, the only thing you can do, if find something that makes your life good, and live with it.

Originally posted by leonheartmm
its more logical to take whats WRITTEN in account literally than find some hidden meaning which can only be found by a smart person as compared to the general populace in a book meant for the entire humanity, it might be true that only people with complex minds TRY to find something hidden in the bible but that doesnt make them any better or righter{in the relegious sense} than people who take it literally.

Christ spoke in parables often. They were not meant to be taken literally. Revelations should be considered to possibly hold similar type as the parables. No one should claim they are "any better or righter" than another. It goes against the Biblical teachings of humility.



I think that Revelations is given for some specific people to allow them to document the events appropriately as they occur. I also believe that I am not one of these. I also think Revelations can give a person insight into events as they occur and should not be dismissed because it is difficult to understand. Also, one should appreciate other individual's perception of the text as possibly edifying as to the content, while taking it with a grain of salt.

Edit: I just looked at that, and sorry for the horrible overuse of the term "also".

Originally posted by leonheartmm
its more logical to take whats WRITTEN in account literally than find some hidden meaning which can only be found by a smart person as compared to the general populace in a book meant for the entire humanity, it might be true that only people with complex minds TRY to find something hidden in the bible but that doesnt make them any better or righter{in the relegious sense} than people who take it literally.
God arranged for us to ministers, priests, scholars, etc. who could offer interpretations of the Bible. God knows that not everyone can understand everything in the Bible because he created everyone different. Most of what is debated is insignificant to the main tenants of the Judeo-Christian faith. Those who can't understand some of the deeper meanings can still abide by the basic tenants and therefore please God. Someone who does not know much about baptizing dead people or speaking in tongues can still please God by living a righteous and holy life, accepting the Messiah, and repenting of their sins.

^id rather live and make pleasing my lover the purpose of my life than pleasing a disproven god.

Originally posted by leonheartmm
^id rather live and make pleasing my lover the purpose of my life than pleasing a disproven god.

What does this argument matter? If we love each other, that is all that matters. I am sure that is God was here right now, God would agree with me.

Mostly. Loving each other is a good place to start (and finish).
As the Bible says "Love never fails".

1 Corinthians 13:2 says, "If I have the gift of prophecy and can fathom all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have faith that can move mountains, but have not love, I am nothing."
1 Corinthians 13:13 says, "And now these three remain: faith, hope, and love. Both the greatest of these is love."
God wants us to love each other more than he wants faith and knowledge of scripture.

Originally posted by The Disagreer
1 Corinthians 13:2 says, "If I have the gift of prophecy and can fathom all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have faith that can move mountains, but have not love, I am nothing."
1 Corinthians 13:13 says, "And now these three remain: faith, hope, and love. Both the greatest of these is love."
God wants us to love each other more than he wants faith and knowledge of scripture.

Very nice.

I try.

To answer the thread title, no.

I'm reading The Stand right now, and there is an old woman--Mother Abagail--who is the most religious person of a group of survivors of an epidemic. She quotes scripture to herself and others, she compares herself to people in the Old Testament, and here is what exemplifies my point exactly:

^ I'm sorry feceman, but that was weird.

I like Steven King......

Well, somethings are to be taken literally, I feel, but much of it is talking with their semantics (which some take literally, and not meant to be)......and much of it is allegorical.....

And of course some has been taken from older writings such as the "Morning Star" mentioned in Isaiah .......Isaiah never wrote that...

Really...The Clone Wars happened...we are all under the reign of the Empire.

DON'T YOU UNDERSTAND!!! the USA is the Antichrist according to most preaching because of our sins........We will be destroyed!!........Though other beliefs feel the Antichrist is a person and not a system.

The clinic is that way

Originally posted by Alliance
The clinic is that way


They have tried, but are at a loss to help her. This is Deb we are talking about, right.

!

*Sighs.*

What I wrote was an attempt to demonstrate the view of a person who takes the Bible both literally and seriously and who struggles with things. She isn't some simple-minded dolt who blindly accepts what's going on; she questions, struggles, she tries to understand. She gets frustrated. In the end, though, she trusts God...but her faith isn't blind.

Originally posted by FeceMan
*Sighs.*

What I wrote was an attempt to demonstrate the view of a person who takes the Bible both literally and seriously and who struggles with things. She isn't some simple-minded dolt who blindly accepts what's going on; she questions, struggles, she tries to understand. She gets frustrated. In the end, though, she trusts God...but her faith isn't blind.

ok However, I thought the movie The Stand was very silly. I couldn't get past that thought at first, but now I see what you are talking about.

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
ok However, I thought the movie The Stand was very silly. I couldn't get past that thought at first, but now I see what you are talking about.
Never saw the movie. Just finished the 800 pages that is the book in its entirety (trilogy).

Originally posted by FeceMan
Never saw the movie. Just finished the 800 pages that is the book in its entirety (trilogy).

I would hope that the book was better.

Books often are.

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
They have tried, but are at a loss to help her. This is Deb we are talking about, right.

I think.......Oh here I go again...........Christians should be made to study all the religions from all the views along with other religions like Muslims............

That should do it...

Originally posted by debbiejo


I think.......Oh here I go again...........Christians should be made to study all the religions from all the views along with other religions like Muslims............

That should do it...

I was only teasing you.

I know..........hug

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
I was only teasing you.

LIAR

He knows I'm right.......

He wuvs me................. He's my pal.........and we do think similar, yet not agree in everything.

You're just jealous..............lol

If you want to be apart of the club........you have to say these words.............."There IS A POSSIBILITY"........

hazing.

Say it.......say it...!!

Why?

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
I was watching the end of a show about the antichrist on the Discovery channel, and there was this guy who made the statement that people who take Revelations literally are simple minded people. He clamed that they cannot understand complex coded imagery, and they want it to be simple. Did you see the show, and what do you think? Its a little harsh to call one simple minded just for their faith. Some of the most intelligent people i know base their whole lives around religion. Now as far as rationale thats a different story.I think its not a matter of logic more of a matter of ignoring ones own thoughts for an outside source of logic. Because of many peoples inherent distrust of themselves they often look towards something bigger than they are for direction;in this case the bible which does contain many helpful stories. That in combination with the large amount of christian supporters makes a great alternative to the difficult task of thinking.

There is a difference between basing your life around religion, and taking the any holy book to be literal.

In my experience intellignet people don't do the latter.

this is why i stick to humorous posts...

Its good to be diverse!

Wakka Wakka!

Now I'm horny.

Damn i'm good

naughty

Back on topic please.

*salutes*

Matthew 6:30
Wherefore, if God so clothe the grass of the field, which to day is, and to morrow is cast into the oven, shall he not much more clothe you, O ye of little faith?

The mistranslation of the Bible and symbolic language taken literally has devastated the original meaning and given us a fantasy story.

an initiate of the esoteric knowledge will read the Bible differently to a Christian or Jewish believer. The initiate will recognise the symbolism, the numerology and the esoteric codes, while the believer takes the text literally So the same text acts as a means of passing on esoteric knowledge to the initiated and creates a prison-religion for the masses who are not initiated. Great scam

so the bible stories are symbolic and coded for initiates to understand and the masses to take literally.

-the biggest secret

believers are very much just brainwashed

Originally posted by ESB -1138
Matthew 6:30
Wherefore, if God so clothe the grass of the field, which to day is, and to morrow is cast into the oven, shall he not much more clothe you, O ye of little faith?

First of all, responding with vague threats that aren't even yours is rather lame. Second of all, it was a question and in no way a statement of even Christian "fact."

Originally posted by Deano
so the bible stories are symbolic and coded for initiates to understand and the masses to take literally.

First of all, responding with vague threats that aren't even yours is rather lame. Second of all, it was a question and in no way a statement of even Christian "fact."

Man, for someone who doesn't believe in the Bible you sure do think that was a threat. I wonder why

its unbelievable really. this con rarely gets mentioned at all except by people like david icke and others who are deemed a nutter. so the evidence is rarely taken in by anyone

Originally posted by ESB -1138
First of all, responding with vague threats that aren't even yours is rather lame. Second of all, it was a question and in no way a statement of even Christian "fact."

Man, for someone who doesn't believe in the Bible you sure do think that was a threat. I wonder why

do some research and u wil realise without a shadow of a doubt that the bible stories are symbolic

Originally posted by ESB -1138
First of all, responding with vague threats that aren't even yours is rather lame. Second of all, it was a question and in no way a statement of even Christian "fact."

Man, for someone who doesn't believe in the Bible you sure do think that was a threat. I wonder why

I'm not threatened at all, but you said it as a threat. Did you not?

Originally posted by Alliance
I'm not threatened at all, but you said it as a threat. Did you not?

What makes you think of it as a threat?

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
I was watching the end of a show about the antichrist on the Discovery channel, and there was this guy who made the statement that people who take Revelations literally are simple minded people. He clamed that they cannot understand complex coded imagery, and they want it to be simple. Did you see the show, and what do you think?

I haven't seen it, unfortunately, but that sounds very interesting.

A lot of radical Christians would fall into this category, as well as a lot of non-Christians too, who use such simpicity to contradict it.

You said I was going to your hell, thats Judgement. Also, incineration is a crime in most nations. You also threatened me with that.

Originally posted by Alliance
You said I was going to your hell, thats Judgement. Also, incineration is a crime in most nations. You also threatened me with that.

Ecclesiastes 8:5-6
Whoso keepeth the commandment shall feel no evil thing: and a wise man's heart discerneth both time and judgment. Because to every purpose there is a time and judgment, therefore the misery of man is great upon him.

Look, I can find my own Bible to argue with. I don't think anyone in the forum wants more quote-posts.

Originally posted by Alliance
Look, I can find my own Bible to argue with. I don't think anyone in the forum wants more quote-posts.

Psalm 19: 7
The law of the Lord if perfect, converting the soul: the testimony of the Lord is sure, making wise the simple.

Yes, delusions of granduer for the masses.

LISTEN to me! DO whatever i SAY. You can be wise!

Systems of control. Systems of control.

Proverbs 1:5
A wise man will hear, and will increase learning; and a man of understanding shall attain unto wise counsels

Originally posted by Alliance
Look, I can find my own Bible to argue with.

Originally posted by Alliance
Look, I can find my own Bible to argue with. I don't think anyone in the forum wants more quote-posts.

Proverbs 26:4
Answer not a fool according to his folly, lest thou also be like unto him.

I read only the last reply to this thread.......but



what have you been smoking? Humans have always know the shape of the earth......since the beginning of recorded civilization and probably before then. Ancient temples from Egypt to Peru to Mexico all have heavenly alignments based on the earth's spherical shape, and the temple builders knowledge of that. The first person in pre-history who gazed at the night sky and realized the moon was another celestial body and watched the earth's shadow cast upon it as the earth moved between the moon and sun creating a lunar eclipse knew the earth was spherical.

as for the original topic.....

yes. they have a mental disorder. any person who base their life, actions and beliefs upon a collection of books written by unknown authors from a distant primitive past are howling mad.

Originally posted by Evil Dead
I read only the last reply to this thread.......but



what have you been smoking? Humans have always know the shape of the earth......since the beginning of recorded civilization and probably before then. Ancient temples from Egypt to Peru to Mexico all have heavenly alignments based on the earth's spherical shape, and the temple builders knowledge of that. The first person in pre-history who gazed at the night sky and realized the moon was another celestial body and watched the earth's shadow cast upon it as the earth moved between the moon and sun creating a lunar eclipse knew the earth was spherical.

as for the original topic.....

yes. they have a mental disorder. any person who base their life, actions and beliefs upon a collection of books written by unknown authors from a distant primitive past are howling mad.

Good to know. And before Abraham was I am; God is alpha and omega; he is the beginning and the end. He was there from the start and there till the end.

And why even both posting if you haven't bothered ready everything? And no; all those cultures you spoke of based their alignments with the sky.

The shape of Egyptian pyramids is thought to represent the primordial mound from which the Egyptians believed the earth was created. The shape is also thought to be representative of the descending rays of the sun, and most pyramids were faced with polished, highly reflective white limestone, in order to give them a brilliant appearance when viewed from a distance. Pyramids were often also named in ways that made reference to solar luminescence. For example, the formal name of the Bent Pyramid at Dahshur was The Southern Shining Pyramid, and that of Senwosret at el-Lahun was Senwosret is Shining.

While it is generally agreed that pyramids were burial monuments, there is continued disagreement on the particular theological principles that might have given rise to them. One theory that has gained a degree of acceptance is that they were designed as a type of "resurrection machine"; the Egyptians believed the dark area of the night sky around which the stars appear to revolve was the physical gateway into the heavens, and one of the narrow shafts that extends from the main burial chamber through the entire body of the Great Pyramid points directly towards the centre of this part of the sky. This suggests the pyramid may have been designed to serve as a means to magically launch the deceased pharaoh's soul directly into the abode of the gods.

Most Egyptian pyramids were built (with the exception of the small step pyramid at Zawyet el-Maiyitin, near Al Minya) on the west bank of the Nile, which as the site of the setting sun was associated with the realm of the dead in Egyptian mythology.

1. I bother to post without reading other people's replies because this thread asks a question. I give my answer. I know you being a Christian, this might be hard to understand......but I'm not a sheep. I don't need to know what other people's opinions or answers are to any given question as it does not influence my own. If somebody asks me a question of any kind, I answer it. I don't take a poll and give an answer that most agrees with what others, a church or my parents think or say.

2. Incorrect. the allignments are based upon the movements of cellestial bodies over a spherical sky. The ancients could chart these movements and know exactly where stars were going to be at any given time........including our sun......which is why we have the numerous temples in South Amercia charting it's movement to specific days of the year. Do your math. The cellestial bodies would not line up at any of these sites if the earth was not a sphere......not even remotely. Even the great pyramid of Egypt was plotted using knowledge of our spherical earth. A column was erected at what was to be the very center of the pyramid.......they charted it's shadow moving in a semicircle (half sphere).....then mirrored that semicircle to create an entire circle.........using that circle to align the sides, making sure the pinnicale would come to rest exactly where the collumn they had used to chart it once stood. your knowledge on ancient civilizations seems to be a bit lacking.

Originally posted by lil bitchiness
REsearch has shown, that the more educated individuals, the less religious they get.

In Ancient Rome, the more people built academies and schools, the less they went to temples. There was a record number of people refusing to go to temples, at the hight of the education in ancient rome.

If God gave you a brain, he would be offended if you didn't use it.



And ESB, any fool can see that there are many stars in the skies. When you write fiction, you base it off real life. Maybe sometimes there are starless skies, but not often.

The Bible is NOT scientific.