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Standard forum rules. No prep. In the unactivated Danger Room.

Emma Frost (diamond form only) vs Luke Cage.

Who wins? If anybody...

She can't use her psychic abilities when in diamond form, correct?

If that is so, then Cage kicks her bitchy ass.

Originally posted by Metalmanx
She can't use her psychic abilities when in diamond form, correct?

If that is so, then Cage kicks her bitchy ass. She can in recent appearances, but for the purpose of this vs no telepathy.

I don't really see him being able to hurt her.. She's a solid, and iirc flawless now, diamond...

Isn't Luke Cage in the 25 ton range? Emma Frost is in the 50 ton range(A lot of people have the idea that she can lift 75 tons...don't know where that idea came from...I really want to know ) and then there's the flawless diamond durability...in her diamond form she becomes immune to pain(Emotion),dehydration, hunger and fatigue...

Yay she actually has a chance against this person!!

In fairness, I've never seen her lift anything around the 50 ton range though...

It's hard to put telepaths in vs because they can mindrape most anyone...

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
She can in recent appearances, but for the purpose of this vs no telepathy.

I don't really see him being able to hurt her.. She's a solid, and iirc flawless now, diamond...

No no, I know that she is incredibly durable and strong. Don't get me wrong. But without her telepathy, this is definitely Cage's match. He's stronger (Emma has NEVER shown me any super high degree of strength, I'd maybe put her in the 5-10 ton region, if even that) and a far better fighter. Possibly even more durable, who knows. I just don't see any way that Emma could have an advantage against Cage, but I can see more of a chance of Cage being her superior in this fight.

Originally posted by Metalmanx
No no, I know that she is incredibly durable and strong. Don't get me wrong. But without her telepathy, this is definitely Cage's match. He's stronger (Emma has NEVER shown me any super high degree of strength, I'd maybe put her in the 5-10 ton region, if even that) and a far better fighter. Possibly even more durable, who knows. I just don't see any way that Emma could have an advantage against Cage, but I can see more of a chance of Cage being her superior in this fight. She could probably just stand there and outlast him though...

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
In fairness, I've never seen her lift anything around the 50 ton range though...

It's hard to put telepaths in vs because they can mindrape most anyone...

True , the handbook places her at level 5 (50 tons) the funny thing is I only ever recall her using her strength to fling people. But we're probably not using handbooks...

Her durability and stamina are better then his though.

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
She could probably just stand there and outlast him though...

Outlast him into what exactly? Fatigue? Doesn't Cage also have superhuman endurance?

But fine, let's say that she outlasts him and he fatigues. Then what? She's going to all of a sudden be able to damage/hurt him when he's tired? Fatigued or not, I don't see her able to hurt him in the slightest. He has more of a chance of damaging her than she does him.

I would have to give Emma 6/10

Originally posted by Metalmanx
Outlast him into what exactly? Fatigue? Doesn't Cage also have superhuman endurance?

But fine, let's say that she outlasts him and he fatigues. Then what? She's going to all of a sudden be able to damage/hurt him when he's tired? Fatigued or not, I don't see her able to hurt him in the slightest. He has more of a chance of damaging her than she does him.

Diamond finger nails can do a lot of damage to materials that aren't of the same durability.

I can just imagine Luke Cage in a catfight with Emma... claws out...
Originally posted by Metalmanx
Outlast him into what exactly? Fatigue? Doesn't Cage also have superhuman endurance?

But fine, let's say that she outlasts him and he fatigues. Then what? She's going to all of a sudden be able to damage/hurt him when he's tired? Fatigued or not, I don't see her able to hurt him in the slightest. He has more of a chance of damaging her than she does him. She doesn't need to eat, drink, breathe etc. though... she doesn't feel pain...

If she can take Colossus' punches and just get up Luke Cage is doing nothing to hurt her...

Originally posted by ExodusCloak
True , the handbook places her at level 5 (50 tons) the funny thing is I only ever recall her using her strength to fling people. But we're probably not using handbooks...

Her durability and stamina are better then his though.

yeah no one ever agrees with the handbooks for some reason.

anyway this is a good match up. Emma is gonna have to do something incredibly damaging to Cage cos he heals quick. I would go for Cage just now.

Emma wins imo. I think next to the Adamantium, Titanium and Vibranium, shes the next strongest substance on Earth. I think.

Cage just doesnt have what it takes to hurt her really. On the other hand, hed feel all of her punches much more that shed feel his if any.

Emma 7/10 imo. Maybe 8/10.

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
I can just imagine Luke Cage in a catfight with Emma... claws out...
She doesn't need to eat, drink, breathe etc. though... she doesn't feel pain...

If she can take Colossus' punches and just get up Luke Cage is doing nothing to hurt her...

when was the last time colossus punched her?

Originally posted by The Pict
when was the last time colossus punched her? Colossus used her as an impromptu weapon punching her into Danger v.1. Fighting for their lives I don't see why he wouldn't go all out if he knows she can take it. She gets back up pretty much immediately. She was the last one standing against it and it had to blackmail her to knock her out.

I'm not really sure I understand something here. Did some crazy upgrade take place with Emma? Cuz she's not strong enough to even scratch Cage, let alone cause him any damage at all.

And yes, when did Colossus punch Emma? Was it all out?

If he can't damage her and she can't damage him...wouldn't that be a stalemate?

She could just stand around looking pretty and shiny until he dies of thirst...

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
Colossus used her as an impromptu weapon punching her into Danger v.1. Fighting for their lives I don't see why he wouldn't go all out if he knows she can take it. She gets back up pretty much immediately. She was the last one standing against it and it had to blackmail her to knock her out.

he shoved her into danger, he never punched her

I would have thought that even though diamonds are hard they can still be cracked and broken.

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
She could just stand around looking pretty and shiny until he dies of thirst...

So we're really playing the "wait till he dies of thirst" argument? That's a teense sad.

I think, using this logic, I just found my winning argument for Juggernaut against Hulk.

Originally posted by The Pict
he shoved her into danger, he never punched her Would you bet your life on that?Originally posted by Metalmanx
So we're really playing the "wait till he dies of thirst" argument? That's a teense sad.

I think, using this logic, I just found my winning argument for Juggernaut against Hulk. I envisioned this a probable stalemate.

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
Would you bet your life on that?

i have the issue right next to me, he spins round and shoves her into danger. he hasn't bunched his hand into a fist, i can see it with my own eyes, i don't need to bet anything.

Originally posted by The Pict
i have the issue right next to me, he spins round and shoves her into danger. he hasn't bunched his hand into a fist, i can see it with my own eyes, i don't need to bet anything. I'm looking at it right now too... it wasn't a shove, that isn't the motion of a shove. If anything it was a chop of sorts... Luke Cage doesn't hold a candle to Colossus in strength.

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
I'm looking at it right now too... it wasn't a shove, that isn't the motion of a shove. If anything it was a chop of sorts... Luke Cage doesn't hold a candle to Colossus in strength.

its the palm of his hand that makes contact, not any other part. its definitely a shove.

Originally posted by The Pict
its the palm of his hand that makes contact, not any other part. its definitely a shove. The palm of his hand ... wow Colossus must have some pretty f*cked up anatomy when his palm looks horizontal but is actually somehow vertical in the birds eye view...

it almost looked like a ridgehand strike..................the way Emma flew back it would be a shove, the wat Colossus swing it doesn't match Emma's flight

No doubt though, Colossus kept his pimp hand strong on Emma.

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
The palm of his hand ... wow Colossus must have some pretty f*cked up anatomy when his palm looks horizontal but is actually somehow vertical in the birds eye view...

I'm actually gonna have to side with The Pict on this one. It's pretty obvious that he tossed her more than anything. See, his hand would be flat against her stomach, and then he swings his massive arm in the direction of Danger, and there Emma goes. That's why his hand looks like that. Basically just a poorly-executed fastball-special. Think about it.

I actually always thought he threw her into Danger.

Anyways, back on topic. Why are we talking about Emma and Colossus? Cage isnt as strong nor as durable as tin man. Emma is easily more durable than Cage and possibly stronger as well.

Originally posted by Soleran
it almost looked like a ridgehand strike..................the way Emma flew back it would be a shove, the wat Colossus swing it doesn't match Emma's flight

No doubt though, Colossus kept his pimp hand strong on Emma. Thoughts on wisdom in the GDF?

Originally posted by Metalmanx
I'm actually gonna have to side with The Pict on this one. It's pretty obvious that he tossed her more than anything. See, his hand would be flat against her stomach, and then he swings his massive arm in the direction of Danger, and there Emma goes. That's why his hand looks like that. Basically just a poorly-executed fastball-special. Think about it. If it is a "shove" it's drawn quite poorly.

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
If it is a "shove" it's drawn quite poorly.

It's certainly not a punch. Nor really a chop either. A shove/toss is the best explanation.

Originally posted by jrodslam
I actually always thought he threw her into Danger.

Anyways, back on topic. Why are we talking about Emma and Colossus? Cage isnt as strong nor as durable as tin man. Emma is easily more durable than Cage and possibly stronger as well.

...When did Emma become stronger than Cage? I feel that I'm missing out on some comic evidence here.

Originally posted by Soleran
I would have thought that even though diamonds are hard they can still be cracked and broken.

That's true, diamonds can be chipped because they have pressure points but Emma isn't just any diamond, in diamond form Emma is perfectly smooth so they're aren't really any areas to exploit (No pressure points), IMO if however one possessed enough strength to rip electrons out of their shells then yeah they could probably shatter her.
Plus Danger had access to a whole lot of different weapons and knows all the X-Mens strengths and weaknesses, but she still had to resort to blackmail in order to get Emma to surrender rather then drill right through Emma's head.

Originally posted by Metalmanx
...When did Emma become stronger than Cage? I feel that I'm missing out on some comic evidence here. If she does have the degree of superstrength she's listed as having she doesn't often use it in battle. She's still first and foremost a telepath .

Originally posted by Metalmanx
It's certainly not a punch. Nor really a chop either. A shove/toss is the best explanation. Because that would mean Colossus might be able to hurt her if he punched her?

Originally posted by Metalmanx
...When did Emma become stronger than Cage? I feel that I'm missing out on some comic evidence here.

I never said she was stronger. I said shes possibly stronger.
I really dont have any strength feats for hers, but she did destroy a sentinel/danger bug by merely punching it and them stomping on it. Ill try to find more though.

I question individuals wisdom, I don't preach about it

Originally posted by jrodslam
I never said she was stronger. I said shes possibly stronger.
I really dont have any strength feats for hers, but she did destroy a sentinel/danger bug by merely punching it and them stomping on it. Ill try to find more though. Funnily enough one oddly strong incident is when she lifts a grown man outside a window with one arm in human form...

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
Because that would mean Colossus might be able to hurt her if he punched her?

Huh? I think Colossus could indeed hurt her with his punches. Hell, he could break her with his punches.

Originally posted by Metalmanx
Huh? I think Colossus could indeed hurt her with his punches. Hell, he could break her with his punches. He couldn't break Danger though

I don't see Luke Cage winning unless he's somehow discovered Emma's secret to be revealed in the next Astonishing, and blackmails her into changing back into human form.

Here's the scan that everyones been on about...

http://img468.imageshack.us/img468/7973/untitledscanned17mr6.th.jpg
http://img354.imageshack.us/img354/6435/untitledscanned11lu9.th.jpg