Runner and Silver Surfer vs. Hal Jordan and Superman

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Mr. Universe
Runner/Surfer

Hal Jordan/Supes

who wins?

Priest
The runner/ surfer wins easily

golem370
Runner by himself

Mr. Universe
interesting.

galan7777777
runner/surfer win easily 10/10

kgkg
Runner tips the scale.

Inhuman
Originally posted by Priest
The runner/ surfer wins easily











and not because one of them is in my sig

H. S. 6
Superman is a non-factor, really. And I doubt Hal's going to be able to stand up to Surfer and Runner by himself.

Validus
Hal takes them solo 10/10.

Inhuman
Originally posted by Validus
Hal takes them solo 10/10.

Takes them out to dinner.

Validus
Leave the jokes to the funny people.

Inhuman
Originally posted by Validus
Leave the jokes to the funny people.

lol oh you were serious about 10/10?
didnt know you felt so strong about your opinion.
dont take out your frustrations on me. I wasnt the only one who said surfer/runner would win.
roll eyes (sarcastic) lol sheesh

bigbran
Originally posted by galan7777777
runner/surfer win easily 10/10 Nah. Runner and Surfer 6/10.
They aren't going to get an easy win when Hal's in a battle.

Broly92
Originally posted by bigbran
Nah. Runner and Surfer 6/10.
They aren't going to get an easy win when Hal's in a battle.
Runner>>>>>Hal no expression

Soleran
SS and Runner thump Superman and Hal.

7-8/10 for Runner and SS.

Rols
Yeah it'd probably be around 7/10 for Marvel team..

Faceman
Runner/ Surfer, Superman is the weak link here...

nvrbeenwthagirl
Surfer is going to encase superman in a heavey duty adamantium cell. and Hall is going to Break the Runner's Legs. This fight is really down to Surfer and Hal.
Surfer gets 5.5 over Hal due to his Godly Stamina.

bigbran
Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
and Hall is going to Break the Runner's Legs. How?

nvrbeenwthagirl
Originally posted by bigbran
How?

OH I dont' know, If his ring can hold a big bang, i'm sure he has the power to dream up something to break the runner's legs.

bigbran
Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
OH I dont' know, If his ring can hold a big bang, i'm sure he has the power to dream up something to break the runner's legs. So he just goes around and breaks peoples legs?

You haven't even explained how he would be able to do so.

Faceman
Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
OH I dont' know, If his ring can hold a big bang, i'm sure he has the power to dream up something to break the runner's legs. The runners legs become light at top speeds.....

nvrbeenwthagirl
Originally posted by bigbran
So he just goes around and breaks peoples legs?

You haven't even explained how he would be able to do so.

He makes a construct of a bear trap that catches the runner. He creates a brick wall in space that the runner runs into, knocks himself out and then breaks his legs, he turns the runner into energy with his ring and absorbs him, he creates green land mines that litter the area and the runner runs over one and looses a leg, he makes a giant Superman and grabs runner by the legs and crushes them, he uses his ring like telekenesis and grabs runner and just snaps his bones, he creates a truck and smacks runner with it and breaks his legs, he has a giant anvil fall on the runners legs weighing as much as a planet.

bigbran
Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
He makes a construct of a bear trap that catches the runner. He creates a brick wall in space that the runner runs into, knocks himself out and then breaks his legs, he turns the runner into energy with his ring and absorbs him, he creates green land mines that litter the area and the runner runs over one and looses a leg, he makes a giant Superman and grabs runner by the legs and crushes them, he uses his ring like telekenesis and grabs runner and just snaps his bones, he creates a truck and smacks runner with it and breaks his legs, he has a giant anvil fall on the runners legs weighing as much as a planet. All of this is assuming, that Runner is running as fast as Hulk, he is as durible as Batman, and that Hal has ever tried to break someones legs before.

nvrbeenwthagirl
Originally posted by bigbran
All of this is assuming, that Runner is running as fast as Hulk, he is as durible as Batman, and that Hal has ever tried to break someones legs before.

NO, all of this is assuming that according to Forum rules, a character can fight with in the wrealm of thier abilities. And since Hal has the power to take on beings stronger than the Runner, and his ring can take out beings who are tuffer, then i'm assuming i'm arguing the way the board rules say to argue.

I'm also Assuming that Hal, the best GL ever, is too much for the Runner like the surfer is too much for superman. I"m assuming that Hal has seen beings move as fast as the runner and it won't stop him from doing what needs to be done for a win.

Why are you arguing against me? You know that the rings can do what ever the wearer has the will power for. SInce hal is the best one ever, isn't it with in his will to do what I said? Geez with the arguments over nothing. Why didn't you ask me if the surfer was going to be able to even catch supers to put him a cell? i said that too.

thedude1948
Runner Speedblitzes Hal, Surfer gives Superman a K-nite/redsun blast.

smokin'

bigbran
Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
NO, all of this is assuming that according to Forum rules, a character can fight with in the wrealm of thier abilities. And since Hal has the power to take on beings stronger than the Runner, and his ring can take out beings who are tuffer, then i'm assuming i'm arguing the way the board rules say to argue.

I'm also Assuming that Hal, the best GL ever, is too much for the Runner like the surfer is too much for superman. I"m assuming that Hal has seen beings move as fast as the runner and it won't stop him from doing what needs to be done for a win.

Why are you arguing against me? You know that the rings can do what ever the wearer has the will power for. SInce hal is the best one ever, isn't it with in his will to do what I said? Geez with the arguments over nothing. Why didn't you ask me if the surfer was going to be able to even catch supers to put him a cell? i said that too. So out of all the things he can do, your demoting him to breaking legs?
I'de argue against him breaking Batman's legs, because he has never done so.
Plus, do you think Runner is that far under Surfer, to have Hal breaking Runner's legs like nothing, to Surfer beating Hal?

nvrbeenwthagirl
Originally posted by bigbran
So out of all the things he can do, your demoting him to breaking legs?
I'de argue against him breaking Batman's legs, because he has never done so.

What does the Forum Rules say? There are many things people say on here that have never been done. But it's with in thier possibility. The surfer has never put anyone in an adamantium cell like I said either, but you aren't picking on me for that. Your arguing for no reason. Igave the marvel team the win.

nvrbeenwthagirl
Originally posted by bigbran
So out of all the things he can do, your demoting him to breaking legs?
I'de argue against him breaking Batman's legs, because he has never done so.
Plus, do you think Runner is that far under Surfer, to have Hal breaking Runner's legs like nothing, to Surfer beating Hal?

The surfer is tuffer than the runner. And smarter. he has a better fighting style. this all puts him above the runner. he has shown using his power in greater effects. what exactly are you arguing?

bigbran
Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
What does the Forum Rules say? There are many things people say on here that have never been done. But it's with in thier possibility. The surfer has never put anyone in an adamantium cell like I said either, but you aren't picking on me for that. Your arguing for no reason. Igave the marvel team the win. I could really care what you said about Surfer. He hasn't shown to make them, moving on. He has a faster way to take Supes down anyway.
You acted like he could easily break Runner's legs. You acted like he was way lower than Surfer, and that he would get tossed like nothing, but then Surfer could beat him?

bigbran
Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
The surfer is tuffer than the runner. And smarter. he has a better fighting style. this all puts him above the runner. he has shown using his power in greater effects. what exactly are you arguing? Except the Runner is faster, and actually speedblitz.
Plus I'm arguing, because you are severly underestimating Runner, sure he might lose to Hal. But he isn't going down in the first second.

nvrbeenwthagirl
Originally posted by bigbran
Except the Runner is faster, and actually speedblitz.

Good luck with the runner getting thru one of Hal's shields. A speed blitz means nothing if you can't tag the person your trying to hit.

thedude1948
What if Runner breaks Hal's legs first? hmm.... smile

nvrbeenwthagirl
Originally posted by bigbran
I could really care what you said about Surfer. He hasn't shown to make them, moving on. He has a faster way to take Supes down anyway.
You acted like he could easily break Runner's legs. You acted like he was way lower than Surfer, and that he would get tossed like nothing, but then Surfer could beat him?

I think you need to just relax. It was a quick assessment of how the battle could go. What your arguing for I will never know and neither do I care. Next time I"ll give a step by step detailed analysis of how each of the battle's go to satisfy you. Even tho many people on here dont' give the same in debt analysis of the battles. they just give an opinion and move on.

nvrbeenwthagirl
Originally posted by bigbran
Except the Runner is faster, and actually speedblitz.
Plus I'm arguing, because you are severly underestimating Runner, sure he might lose to Hal. But he isn't going down in the first second.
And Superman isn't going down in the first second. it was a quick snap shot of what the battle would end up like. Stop arguing for the sake.

nvrbeenwthagirl
Originally posted by thedude1948
What if Runner breaks Hal's legs first? hmm.... smile

The runner isn't powerful enough to get thru one of hal's shields.

bigbran
Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
I think you need to just relax. It was a quick assessment of how the battle could go. What your arguing for I will never know and neither do I care. Next time I"ll give a step by step detailed analysis of how each of the battle's go to satisfy you. Even tho many people on here dont' give the same in debt analysis of the battles. they just give an opinion and move on. No, you said this.
Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
Surfer is going to encase superman in a heavey duty adamantium cell. and Hall is going to Break the Runner's Legs. This fight is really down to Surfer and Hal.
Surfer gets 5.5 over Hal due to his Godly Stamina. Which I really don't agree with. Plus it seemed like you were putting Runner way under Surfer.
Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
And Superman isn't going down in the first second. it was a quick snap shot of what the battle would end up like. Stop arguing for the sake. Of course not. But he's going down, before Runner is.
Then it could turn into a double team.

And I would stop arguing as sonn as you stop.

bigbran
I'm throwing this out, no need to argue.
Originally posted by Inhuman
Here is his fight against Silver Surfer.
Runner defeats surfer almost effortlessly. Seems he was toying with him.

http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b240/VoltronForce/runnersurfer1.jpg

Runner easily dodges pc blasts.

http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b240/VoltronForce/runnersurfer2.jpg

Surfer gets pissed off...

http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b240/VoltronForce/runnersurfer3.jpg

Runner slows down and confronts surfer hand to hand in a test of power.

http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b240/VoltronForce/runnersurfer4.jpg

Surfer realizes that runner is much more powerful than he is. He is brought down to his knees and is defeated. Runner didnt look to be going all out at all.

http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b240/VoltronForce/runnersurfer5.jpg

ps. - This battle was without the space gem.

Inhuman
Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
Hall is going to Break the Runner's Legs. This fight is really down to Surfer and Hal.
eek! laughing rolling on floor laughing laughing out loud
keep dreaming buddy roll eyes (sarcastic)

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
The surfer is tuffer than the runner. And smarter. he has a better fighting style. this all puts him above the runner.

You know nothing of the runner. You sound idiotic comenting on what you know nothing of. Runner is immortal plus he is as indestructable or even more so than surfer. Runner is billions of years old.
Go read the respect thread in my sig child. no expression

man runner sure gets underestimated alot.

bigbran
Originally posted by Inhuman
eek! laughing rolling on floor laughing laughing out loud
keep dreaming buddy roll eyes (sarcastic)



You know nothing of the runner. You sound idiotic comenting on what you know nothing of. Runner is immortal plus he is as indestructable or even more so than surfer. Runner is billions of years old.
Go read the respect thread in my sig child. no expression

man runner sure gets underestimated alot. I was already on it.

Inhuman
Originally posted by bigbran
I was already on it.

yeah i saw.
My internet is acting screwy. it has a delayed response.

Mr. Universe
Runner decapitates Hal before he can think.

nvrbeenwthagirl
Originally posted by Inhuman
eek! laughing rolling on floor laughing laughing out loud
keep dreaming buddy roll eyes (sarcastic)



You know nothing of the runner. You sound idiotic comenting on what you know nothing of. Runner is immortal plus he is as indestructable or even more so than surfer. Runner is billions of years old.
Go read the respect thread in my sig child. no expression

man runner sure gets underestimated alot.

Go read a Hal Jordan respect thread. The Runner doesn't compare.

MattDay
what's hal current incarnation?

darthgoober
Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
Go read a Hal Jordan respect thread. The Runner doesn't compare.
Yes but it's been shown that he can solo Surfer, and he DOES compare. DOS Doomsday, doesn't have the feat list of the Hulk, but does that mean that the Hulk automatically wins a fight between the two?

nvrbeenwthagirl
Originally posted by darthgoober
Yes but it's been shown that he can solo Surfer, and he DOES compare. DOS Doomsday, doesn't have the feat list of the Hulk, but does that mean that the Hulk automatically wins a fight between the two?

The Runner being able to solo the surfer does not mean he can solo hal jordan. ABC logic doesn't work on these forums. Hal Jordan has a ring that can do literally ANY Thing he can imagine. Not just make things. But it can do anything. It can turn hal into eneregy, make him invisable, rewrite his genetic code to give him more powers, the runner is outclassed.

galan7777777
Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
The Runner being able to solo the surfer does not mean he can solo hal jordan. ABC logic doesn't work on these forums. Hal Jordan has a ring that can do literally ANY Thing he can imagine. Not just make things. But it can do anything. It can turn hal into eneregy, make him invisable, rewrite his genetic code to give him more powers, the runner is outclassed. so how about when the runner speedblitzed thanos /w/ the time gem?

darthgoober
Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
The Runner being able to solo the surfer does not mean he can solo hal jordan. ABC logic doesn't work on these forums. Hal Jordan has a ring that can do literally ANY Thing he can imagine. Not just make things. But it can do anything. It can turn hal into eneregy, make him invisable, rewrite his genetic code to give him more powers, the runner is outclassed.
So your saying that DOS Doomsday would lose to Hulk, due to lack of feats?

nvrbeenwthagirl
Originally posted by darthgoober
So your saying that DOS Doomsday would lose to Hulk, due to lack of feats?

So your saying what? What the hell does Doomsday have to do with this thread? I said that Hal Jordan's powers make it easy for him to get the win over the Runner. It's that simple. The runner doesn't or hasn't shown the versatility to over come someone who can do anything they can will themselves to do. Hal could de Evolve the runner as easily as Thanos did.

nvrbeenwthagirl
Originally posted by galan7777777
so how about when the runner speedblitzed thanos /w/ the time gem? IF Thanos was using the time gem, the runner would have been standing still locked in time. Just becuz thanos had it, doesn't mean he was using it when he got speed blitzed. It doesn't even mean Thanos was using it in an effective way. Anyone who can control time can just make thier opponents stop.

galan7777777
Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
IF Thanos was using the time gem, the runner would have been standing still locked in time. Just becuz thanos had it, doesn't mean he was using it when he got speed blitzed. It doesn't even mean Thanos was using it in an effective way. Anyone who can control time can just make thier opponents stop. point is that runner was so fast thanos didnt have any time to think about using the gem, just like hal wouldnt have enough time to think about using his ring

nvrbeenwthagirl
Originally posted by galan7777777
point is that runner was so fast thanos didnt have any time to think about using the gem, just like hal wouldnt have enough time to think about using his ring
The point is, Hal doesn't have to think about using the ring. The ring auto protects the wearer. The shields would be up any way if they are out in space fighting, or is hal traveling in space with no protection?

darthgoober
Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
So your saying what? What the hell does Doomsday have to do with this thread? I said that Hal Jordan's powers make it easy for him to get the win over the Runner. It's that simple. The runner doesn't or hasn't shown the versatility to over come someone who can do anything they can will themselves to do. Hal could de Evolve the runner as easily as Thanos did.
Does he have the Space Gem? For that matter, how does he even know about that, it's not as well known as the weaknesses covered by 'Basic Knowledge).

And the Runner has cosmic power, but he lacks in feats due to limited appearances(just like DOS Doomsday, that's why I brought him up), however since one of his feats IS taking out Surfer, it seems a little unreasonable to automatically assume he'd go down against someone like Hal, unless your willing to say that DOS Doomsday loses to Hulk, when his biggest feat was taking out Superman.

galan7777777
Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
The point is, Hal doesn't have to think about using the ring. The ring auto protects the wearer. The shields would be up any way if they are out in space fighting, or is hal traveling in space with no protection? where did the thread maker state that they were fighting in space?

nvrbeenwthagirl
Originally posted by darthgoober
Does he have the Space Gem? For that matter, how does he even know about that, it's not as well known as the weaknesses covered by 'Basic Knowledge).

And the Runner has cosmic power, but he lacks in feats due to limited appearances(just like DOS Doomsday, that's why I brought him up), however since one of his feats IS taking out Surfer, it seems a little unreasonable to automatically assume he'd go down against someone like Hal, unless your willing to say that DOS Doomsday loses to Hulk, when his biggest feat was taking out Superman.
Your saying someone like Hal is some pushover. And the Runner hasn't shown use of the cosmic power other than the very basics. What else can I go on. IT's easy to say who woudl win in a fight with Hulk and Doomsday since they are both very limited characters. With Hal and the runner, I can only go off of what I know them to be able to do and what they are shown. If the Runner had turned the surfer into a popscicle or rewound time or anything like that, then I would be inclined to give him the edge. as of now, he seems to be like the other elders. Having vast power but only focusing in a limited area of expertise.

nvrbeenwthagirl
Originally posted by galan7777777
where did the thread maker state that they were fighting in space?

I said if. But it doesn't matter, If they are fighting, meaning they are engaged in a battle, Hal already has his shields up. IT doesn't say that on the count of three the fighters will go. It doens't give any stips like that. Also, The rings auto protect, the ring would scan a high velocity object and instantly autoprotect.

galan7777777
Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
I said if. But it doesn't matter, If they are fighting, meaning they are engaged in a battle, Hal already has his shields up. IT doesn't say that on the count of three the fighters will go. It doens't give any stips like that. Also, The rings auto protect, the ring would scan a high velocity object and instantly autoprotect. ahhh so you were speculating

nvrbeenwthagirl
Originally posted by galan7777777
ahhh so you were speculating

Aren't we all? We dont' know if the fighters start at the same time on the count of Go. We dont' know where they are fighting. We dont' know how far they are apart. So what else is this entire argument based off of if not speculation?

Sure the Runner can Speed blitz hal if all four of them are standing around having drinks and then out of theblue the runner charges. But I'm thinking that if they are fighting, then they know they are fighting, or that they know they are about to fight. So Hal would be ready with His shields up. His shield is up when he's flying right? Or did the thread starter say they all start on the ground? See with no stips, i have to go with what is logical, all characters can fly, then they are all in the air and hal has his shield up. The ring auto protects, so i have to assume that it would protect hal from a speed blitz.

darthgoober
Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
Your saying someone like Hal is some pushover. And the Runner hasn't shown use of the cosmic power other than the very basics. What else can I go on. IT's easy to say who woudl win in a fight with Hulk and Doomsday since they are both very limited characters. With Hal and the runner, I can only go off of what I know them to be able to do and what they are shown. If the Runner had turned the surfer into a popscicle or rewound time or anything like that, then I would be inclined to give him the edge. as of now, he seems to be like the other elders. Having vast power but only focusing in a limited area of expertise.
Yes but he's not TOTALLY focused.He's shown to be at least as strong as the Surfer physically, and your forgetting his likable ability(or whatever the Hell it is). Hal's not going to be able to fight to his full potential because his powers depend on will. And his will is going to be affected by the Runners power. I'm not saying that it's going to be negated, but it IS going to be reduced.

AND your assuming that it's going to start off Supes/Surfer & Hal/Runner, but with basic knowledge, it's more likely that Supes would square off with Runner(because Runner hasn't shown Surfers ability to replicate Supes weaknesses), and Surfer would square off with Hal(because they're the big energy manipulators). And as bad as Supes is, I don't think he could take an Elder of the Universe.

nvrbeenwthagirl
Originally posted by darthgoober
Yes but he's not TOTALLY focused.He's shown to be at least as strong as the Surfer physically, and your forgetting his likable ability(or whatever the Hell it is). Hal's not going to be able to fight to his full potential because his powers depend on will. And his will is going to be affected by the Runners power. I'm not saying that it's going to be negated, but it IS going to be reduced.

AND your assuming that it's going to start off Supes/Surfer & Hal/Runner, but with basic knowledge, it's more likely that Supes would square off with Runner(because Runner hasn't shown Surfers ability to replicate Supes weaknesses), and Surfer would square off with Hal(because they're the big energy manipulators). And as bad as Supes is, I don't think he could take an Elder of the Universe.

Yeah he can. The Elders are ok. But they don't seem to be all that. They have had thier asses handed to them. Being an elder doesn't exactly mean your unbeatable. The elders are pretty unbeatable in thier stick, unless your just as good, in that area. But they dont' go around practicing using the cosmic power in all advanced areas.

Like the gamesmaster is very very very smart. But he doens't go around transmuting things. You get what I'm saying. You'd be hard pressed to out smart the gamesmaster, but to knock him off his block wouldn't take galactus lvl power.

darthgoober
Wait, are you talking about Supesbeating the Runner?

Rols
Originally posted by MattDay
what's hal current incarnation?
fought Cyborg...
http://img247.imageshack.us/img247/3527/glrw9.th.jpg
http://img247.imageshack.us/img247/1039/gl1oe0.th.jpg
http://img62.imageshack.us/img62/8614/glsh3.th.jpg
Superman handled that job like nothing dough
http://img62.imageshack.us/img62/2096/gl1sg7.th.jpg
those are just a few ive got scanned, Ohh and his fight w/ Nero... should be on his respect thread dough..


Well isnt that quit similar to SS and Runner blitz him, Runner has a good chance against Hal, I dont know if the rings auto defense system is fast enough to handle Runners attack since Cyborg Supes and Superman could manage there way around it and Runner is faster and as strong as those 2... Incalculable strength and all... Supes, Cyborg Supes, Nero handled his blast i dont see how Runner couldnt...


Nah i dont think Hals could do that to Runner same way SS could'nt do it, Primodial forces would block such attack.. Thanos needed the reality gem to do that..


Didnt help him against the fight with Borg/Superman/Nero etc...

nvrbeenwthagirl
Originally posted by Rols
fought Cyborg...
http://img247.imageshack.us/img247/3527/glrw9.th.jpg
http://img247.imageshack.us/img247/1039/gl1oe0.th.jpg
http://img62.imageshack.us/img62/8614/glsh3.th.jpg
Superman handled that job like nothing dough
http://img62.imageshack.us/img62/2096/gl1sg7.th.jpg
those are just a few ive got scanned, Ohh and his fight w/ Nero... should be on his respect thread dough..


Well isnt that quit similar to SS and Runner blitz him, Runner has a good chance against Hal, I dont know if the rings auto defense system is fast enough to handle Runners attack since Cyborg Supes and Superman could manage there way around it and Runner is faster and as strong as those 2... Incalculable strength and all... Supes, Cyborg Supes, Nero handled his blast i dont see how Runner couldnt...


Nah i dont think Hals could do that to Runner same way SS could'nt do it, Primodial forces would block such attack.. Thanos needed the reality gem to do that..


Didnt help him against the fight with Borg/Superman/Nero etc...


We are talking about the fact that Comic Characters have to have drama to the series right? Or would you like Hal to never get beaten ever or have any challenges. According to the forum rules, I"m goign by what Hal is capable of. It's totally with in his ability to beat the runner. Unless of course you think the runner is really that versatile. I dont' see him being any more than another elder. And we know how verstatile they are. Not really versatle at all.

Soleran
Runner is probably one of the better Elders.....................if not the best.

He would seriously chomp Hal.

nvrbeenwthagirl
Originally posted by Soleran
Runner is probably one of the better Elders.....................if not the best.

He would seriously chomp Hal.

Hal's shields can hold Universal Bangs. Does the Runner have that kind of power? What kinds of energy blast lvls does the runner have? What is his skill lvl of transmutation? He's not as strong as champion, so I know he does have incaluable strenth.

galan7777777
Originally posted by Rols
fought Cyborg...
http://img247.imageshack.us/img247/3527/glrw9.th.jpg
http://img247.imageshack.us/img247/1039/gl1oe0.th.jpg
http://img62.imageshack.us/img62/8614/glsh3.th.jpg
Superman handled that job like nothing dough
http://img62.imageshack.us/img62/2096/gl1sg7.th.jpg
this dosent concern the debate, but i just gotta point out that this was an awesome issue!

Rols
Originally posted by galan7777777
this dosent concern the debate, but i just gotta point out that this was an awesome issue!
Matt was asking Hals recent feat and since i had some scans so i just posted it out..


Im quite aware of what Hal is capable off.. I know his ring once handled a univesal attack but what im basing this fight off is against his reaction speed and the speed at which his auto shield reacts, i dont even know if that ring of has auto shield which it should have but Superman/Cyborg Supes manage to go around it, i dont see why Runner cant do desame since his quite faster and 1 can argue him to be even faster.. There are scans of it around this forum..

galan7777777
Originally posted by Rols
Matt was asking Hals recent feat and since i had some scans so i just posted it out.. yeah i meant what 'I' said about the issue being a good one didnt concern the debate at hand.... indeed the force was strong with that issue lol! yoda1

Rols
Yeah, next couple issue should be good too, hes wanted against the Corps again...lol.. Ion is getting quite good too... anyhow were going off topic.. I still say Marvel should win this...

bigbran
Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
Yeah he can. The Elders are ok. But they don't seem to be all that. They have had thier asses handed to them. Being an elder doesn't exactly mean your unbeatable. The elders are pretty unbeatable in thier stick, unless your just as good, in that area. But they dont' go around practicing using the cosmic power in all advanced areas.

Like the gamesmaster is very very very smart. But he doens't go around transmuting things. You get what I'm saying. You'd be hard pressed to out smart the gamesmaster, but to knock him off his block wouldn't take galactus lvl power. All the Elders are really pushovers.
Runner, though has defied that.

He was able to do more than all the others combined.

bigbran
Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
We are talking about the fact that Comic Characters have to have drama to the series right? Or would you like Hal to never get beaten ever or have any challenges. According to the forum rules, I"m goign by what Hal is capable of. It's totally with in his ability to beat the runner. Unless of course you think the runner is really that versatile. I dont' see him being any more than another elder. And we know how verstatile they are. Not really versatle at all. I like how your sompletely basing this argument off, of how the other Elders aren't that good.
Runner has shown to be stronger, faster, and basically a better fighter than Surfer.

I never said he'd beat Hal, but he sure as hell isn't going down as fast as you think.

batdude123
whistle

http://img238.imageshack.us/my.php?image=e2supermanpwningzoomae9.jpg

batdude123
^^^

Inhuman
pis , jobbing to supes. you choose cool

batdude123
Originally posted by Inhuman
pis , jobbing to supes. you choose cool

I'll choose my own option. Supes is just that damn good. devil

Soleran
Zoom doesn't have runners durability either or superstrength combined with the speed.

batdude123
Originally posted by Soleran
Zoom doesn't have runners durability either or superstrength combined with the speed.

You're right, he only has time altering powers and is faster than Flash. smile

Soleran
Originally posted by batdude123
You're right, he only has time altering powers and is faster than Flash. smile


Which was useless against even a blind WW and obviously Superman, Zoom was cool until you had to show that picture with Superman there. It didn't really help your position theresmile

Runner is above Zoom

batdude123
Originally posted by Soleran
Which was useless against even a blind WW and obviously Superman, Zoom was cool until you had to show that picture with Superman there. It didn't really help your position theresmile

Runner is above Zoom

Oh yeah, it seems you forgot to mention that he was MAJORLY holding back against her just like everyone else (except for Batman embarrasment)

And prove Runner is above Zoom? Zoom is above Flash my friend.

Broly92
Originally posted by batdude123
I'll choose my own option. Supes is just that damn good. devil
miffed No it was pis and look Wildcat isn't getting a beating even though he just has human speed wink

Soleran
Runner is far more then just a fast character, he's strong, highly invulnerable and has the power primordal to blast folks with etc etc

When was the last time Zoom and Flash ran across the galaxy in the time it takes a woman to scream? Oh yeah thats right Flash and Zoom if left in space to their own abilities would die they like to impress folks running around Earthsmile

Runner and SS take this fight 8/10 for the wins!

batdude123
Originally posted by Soleran
Runner is far more then just a fast character, he's strong, highly invulnerable and has the power primordal to blast folks with etc etc

When was the last time Zoom and Flash ran across the galaxy in the time it takes a woman to scream? Oh yeah thats right Flash and Zoom if left in space to their own abilities would die they like to impress folks running around Earthsmile

Sol, go home. no expression

Flash raced DEATH to the end of time, and won. no expression He also outran galactic teleportation. In feets: Flash and Zoom>Runner

Soleran
Originally posted by batdude123
Sol, go home. no expression

Flash raced DEATH to the end of time, and won. no expression He also outran galactic teleportation. In feets: Flash and Zoom>Runner


Get a grip this is a fight not a race.

SS and Runner 8/10.

batdude123
Originally posted by Soleran
Get a grip this is a fight not a race.

SS and Runner 8/10.

Feats: Flash/Zoom>Runner

And I never doubted SS and Runner would win this. I just wanted to ruffle a few feathers with that scan.

bigbran
Originally posted by batdude123
whistle

http://img238.imageshack.us/my.php?image=e2supermanpwningzoomae9.jpg Runner can fly in space, speedblitz SS.
I'm not saying hes faster, I'm just saying that he is more manuverable.

Soleran
Originally posted by batdude123
Feats: Flash/Zoom>Runner

And I never doubted SS and Runner would win this. I just wanted to ruffle a few feathers with that scan.


TROLL!

Lol, touche!

Broly92
Originally posted by batdude123
Feats: Flash/Zoom>Runner

And I never doubted SS and Runner would win this. I just wanted to ruffle a few feathers with that scan.
1 of Dc Main character feats>>>>>>>>>>> 1 minor marvel character feats erm

batdude123
Originally posted by bigbran
Runner can fly in space, speedblitz SS.
I'm not saying hes faster, I'm just saying that he is more manuverable.

And your point is? confused Zoom can run in space. Gee golly gosh isn't that wonderful??!!! eek!

bigbran
Originally posted by batdude123
And your point is? confused Zoom can run in space. Gee golly gosh isn't that wonderful??!!! eek! ****!!!

batdude123
Originally posted by bigbran
****!!!

stick out tongue

Broly92
Do I have a ignore my posts sign on me or something

Soleran
Originally posted by Broly92
Do I have a ignore my posts sign on me or something


That could be a good thing really!osama

Broly92
Originally posted by Soleran
That could be a good thing really!osama
What? Why?

bigbran
Originally posted by batdude123
stick out tongue Still think Runner's more manuverable.

Broly92
Originally posted by Broly92
Do I have a ignore my posts sign on me or something

Soleran
yes

Broly92
Originally posted by Soleran
yes
censored

bigbran
Originally posted by Soleran
yes Who?

Soleran
I think his name is Broly92 about 6 or 7 of us have him on ignoresad

Broly92
Originally posted by Soleran
I think his name is Broly92 about 6 or 7 of us have him on ignoresad
I'm that bad dontgetit

bigbran
Originally posted by Soleran
I think his name is Broly92 about 6 or 7 of us have him on ignoresad Originally posted by bigbran
Who?

Madvillain
bump

Mindship
Runner and Surfer 8/10

How about Runner vs Hal, Supes and Surfer?

Decimus
I don't know who would win but I will say that was earth 2 superman who clocked zoom.

quanchi112
Runner and Surfer take this.

Inhuman
Spite thread.
Closing closed

Terryc250
Runner > Hal
SS > Supes

team 1 ftw

Southern_Rebel
Hal just brings out his Parallax or Spectre powers....for the quick and easy stomp!!!!!

tdawg14
This is an easy win for the Marvel side. The two biggest guns in this fight are on the Marvel side.

complexbrother
Runner will take down Superman, and Silver Surfer will humilate Green Lantern.


it's as simple as that.

Juntai
Where's Runner feats that show that Superman can't defeat him?
Because clearly, if we use feats, Superman is heads and shoulders above him.

janus77
he's too fast, you can't see Runner's feet wink.


seriously though, Runner >> Thanos >> Surfer >> Superman big grin.

Juntai
Originally posted by janus77
he's too fast, you can't see Runner's feet wink.


seriously though, Runner >> Thanos >> Surfer >> Superman big grin. I can make greater-than signs all day, especially with Superman, who beats pretty much everyone in his universe.

Runner's feats don't stack up.

janus77
Originally posted by Juntai
I can make greater-than signs all day, especially with Superman...
so can I, if we put them before superman.

Runner's feats of relevance are beating Surfer easily and decimating Thanos.

Juntai
Originally posted by janus77
so can I, if we put them before superman.

Runner's feats of relevance are beating Surfer easily and decimating Thanos. Superman's defeated people beyond Thanos, Runner and Surfer, it would be quite easy to make >>>>>> without consideration.

However, something completely relivent here, that does NOT involve A>B>C logic, is that plain and simply: Runner's feats do not stack up to Superman's.

Alfheim
Originally posted by Juntai
Superman's defeated people beyond Thanos, Runner and Surfer, it would be quite easy to make >>>>>> without consideration.

Ok who?

Originally posted by Juntai

However, something completely relivent here, that does NOT involve A>B>C logic, is that plain and simply: Runner's feats do not stack up to Superman's.

Which ones?

janus77
Originally posted by Juntai
Superman's defeated people beyond Thanos, Runner and Surfer, it would be quite easy to make >>>>>> without consideration.

However, something completely relivent here, that does NOT involve A>B>C logic, is that plain and simply: Runner's feats do not stack up to Superman's.
omg, you are serious about this feats business?

you realise Runner is some fringe character in the Marvel cosmos and not the Icon of a whole company, right?

a bit of an imbalance in their 'comic time' no?


anyway, I could say Flash is >>> Ashema the Listener, because feats-wise she's not really done much beside getting smacked up by Doom a little no expression.

Juntai
Originally posted by Alfheim
Ok who?



Which ones? People seem to forget that he's done battle with gods, Darkseid, Dominus, Blaze, Doomsday, exactly how long should I make this list? Superman's list of accomplishments goes on for days. Some people think he's over-rated, but the truth is, on the forum he's severely under-rated given who he's defeated and what he's accomplished and what he's faced and prevailed over.


What do you mean which ones?
Runner has only a handful of appearances, his feats are very few, especially when you take away the gem. Check his respect thread, and check Superman's and you'll find one that equals or simply outdoes Runner in pretty much every category.

Juntai
Originally posted by janus77
omg, you are serious about this feats business?

you realise Runner is some fringe character in the Marvel cosmos and not the Icon of a whole company, right?

a bit of an imbalance in their 'comic time' no?


anyway, I could say Flash is >>> Ashema the Listener, because feats-wise she's not really done much beside getting smacked up by Doom a little no expression. So where is the evidence that he's superior? Superman's defeated more powerful foes, and Superman has the higher feats.

Where exactly does that leave any arguement of Runner being able to defeat Superman?

janus77
Originally posted by Juntai
So where is the evidence that he's superior? Superman's defeated more powerful foes, and Superman has the higher feats.

Where exactly does that leave any arguement of Runner being able to defeat Superman?
same place we know that TOAA is superior to Superman. common sense and the revealed order of things in comics.

Surfer and Thanos are below Runner, as their confrontations with him have shown. Surfer is a good deal more powerful and versatile than Superman, ergo someone even more powerful than Surfer is going to be beyond Superman.

as for the crazy feats. Surfer took on Tenebrous and Aegis, both beings nearly on a par with Galactus.
Thanos took on Odin and wasn't really hurt...

Alfheim
Originally posted by Juntai
People seem to forget that he's done battle with gods, Darkseid, Dominus, Blaze, Doomsday, exactly how long should I make this list? Superman's list of accomplishments goes on for days. Some people think he's over-rated, but the truth is, on the forum he's severely under-rated given who he's defeated and what he's accomplished and what he's faced and prevailed over.

Ok I was under the impression that Darkseid was around Thanos's level. As far as I know the Doomsday that Superman beat was not as powerful as Thanos. Superman had to use a motherbox to beat other versions. I dont see how tha Doomsday that Superman, beat was above Thanos.

Originally posted by Juntai

What do you mean which ones?
Runner has only a handful of appearances, his feats are very few, especially when you take away the gem. Check his respect thread, and check Superman's and you'll find one that equals or simply outdoes Runner in pretty much every category.

Well frist of all the gem didnt make Runner faster. So when he was fighting Thanos he wasnt using it. Runner may have few appearnces but Thanos and Silver Surfer have loads since Runner has pawned both of them we could compare Silver Sufer or Thanos feats to Superman.

Ive been to the Superman respect thread. Superman has better strength feats but thats all I can think of.

Juntai
Originally posted by Alfheim
Ok I was under the impression that Darkseid was around Thanos's level. As far as I know the Doomsday that Superman beat was not as powerful as Thanos. Superman had to use a motherbox to beat other versions. I dont see how tha Doomsday that Superman, beat was above Thanos.



Well frist of all the gem didnt make Runner faster. So when he was fighting Thanos he wasnt using it. Runner may have few appearnces but Thanos and Silver Surfer have loads since Runner has pawned both of them we could compare Silver Sufer or Thanos feats to Superman.

Ive been to the Superman respect thread. Superman has better strength feats but thats all I can think of. I was naming very powerful foes, Doomsday is in fact up there in power. 'As far as you know' doesn't mean much when you admittedly don't know DC characters. Doomsday Rex proved to be very powerful later on after his defeat at the hands of Superman.


Surfer and Thanos' feats aren't applicable here. He's not battling those characters, it's not interchangable. A>B>C logic doesn't work well. And even if we do count it, given the people he's defeated, Superman still comes out on top. He's simply defeated more powerful foes than Runner has.

Runner's feats nor his battle victories stand up to Superman's.
It's really not that tough to understand.

Alfheim
Originally posted by Juntai
I was naming very powerful foes, Doomsday is in fact up there in power. 'As far as you know' doesn't mean much when you admittedly don't know DC characters. Doomsday Rex proved to be very powerful later on after his defeat at the hands of Superman.

Are you being patronising again? Look thats the whole point why I said "as far as I know" it was an attempt to be polite as possible because you might flip out. Couldnt help the condersending remark though.

Originally posted by Juntai

Surfer and Thanos' feats aren't applicable here. He's not battling those characters, it's not interchangable. A>B>C logic doesn't work well. And even if we do count it, given the people he's defeated, Superman still comes out on top. He's simply defeated more powerful foes than Runner has.

Runner's feats nor his battle victories stand up to Superman's.
It's really not that tough to understand.

Ok i'll look into Doomsday Rex but I still dont see how DS is more powerful than Thanos.

P.S. IM not getting anything on wiki on Doomsday Rex what version of Doomsday is he?

Juntai
Originally posted by Alfheim
Are you being patronising again? Look thats the whole point why I said "as far as I know" it was an attempt to be polite as possible because you might flip out. Couldnt help the condersending remark though.



Ok i'll look into Doomsday Rex but I still dont see how DS is more powerful than Thanos.
How about Dominus? He was a universal level threat. Blaze? She was all-powerful in her own dimension- where Superman defeated her. On and on.

I'm not quite sure why you keep refering back to Thanos anyways, Runner had a decent showing against him, but I don't recall Runner being the one on top at the end of the conflict as it stands. And I have read Thanos Quest. . . Making his only legitimate defeat over a validated character that I know of- overpowering a confused Surfer. Not too spectacular.

As it stands, Superman trumps in the battle victories category, and he also trumps the feats category.

janus77
Originally posted by Juntai
I was naming very powerful foes, Doomsday is in fact up there in power. 'As far as you know' doesn't mean much when you admittedly don't know DC characters. Doomsday Rex proved to be very powerful later on after his defeat at the hands of Superman.


Surfer and Thanos' feats aren't applicable here. He's not battling those characters, it's not interchangable. A>B>C logic doesn't work well. And even if we do count it, given the people he's defeated, Superman still comes out on top. He's simply defeated more powerful foes than Runner has.

Runner's feats nor his battle victories stand up to Superman's.
It's really not that tough to understand.
so let's apply your logic to WW versus Uatu The Watcher.
clearly WW creams Uatu right?

or let's say Aegis versus Flash, Flash wins, spite, right?

no expression common sense trumps logic, logic just happens to be a particularly transparent and linear type of reasoning, hence its frequent application to remove confusion/provide clarity, but it isn't applicable in all circumstances.

ultimatethor
Originally posted by Juntai
I was naming very powerful foes, Doomsday is in fact up there in power. 'As far as you know' doesn't mean much when you admittedly don't know DC characters. Doomsday Rex proved to be very powerful later on after his defeat at the hands of Superman.


Surfer and Thanos' feats aren't applicable here. He's not battling those characters, it's not interchangable. A>B>C logic doesn't work well. And even if we do count it, given the people he's defeated, Superman still comes out on top. He's simply defeated more powerful foes than Runner has.

Runner's feats nor his battle victories stand up to Superman's.
It's really not that tough to understand.

The runner is not a mainstream character so therefore him not having many feats is understandable. Now this superman having beaten guys above thanos and surfer is a really weak argument. Most of his victories iver people that are above SS and thanos level were highly based on the circumstances and involved great bouts of PIS and CIS
and certainly not due to his own power. Heck the surfer has taken galctus on more than one occassion and thor has taken galactus and a celestial and who hasnt thanos beaten? The point is unless the victory showed that the character was truly more powerful than his opponent then it counts for nothing. Thats the difference between the runners victories and supermans, the runners victories over surfer and thanos were legit( without PIS ) and actually showed him as being more powerful than them. The runner would take supes easy and the surfer is above any green lantern. Surfers team wins this with no problems

Alfheim
Originally posted by Juntai
How about Dominus? He was a universal level threat. Blaze? She was all-powerful in her own dimension- where Superman defeated her. On and on.


I'll do a wiki on those guys.

Originally posted by Juntai

I'm not quite sure why you keep refering back to Thanos anyways, Runner had a decent showing against him, but I don't recall Runner being the one on top at the end of the conflict as it stands. And I have read Thanos Quest. . . Making his only legitimate defeat over a validated character that I know of-



As for Thanos, Runner could have killed him easily but Runner spent too much time listening to Thanos and Thanos used the time gem on him. If Thanos did not have the gem he would have died and Runner didnt use the space gem to beat him therefore we can assume thar Runner is more powerful than Thanos.

Originally posted by Juntai

overpowering a confused Surfer. Not too spectacular.

Well that was due to the fact that Runner can have a mental affect on his opponents. Anyway Runner could have beaten Thanos and SS stated that all Elders were more powerful than him so we can assume that Runner would have beaten SS even if he wasnt confused, to be quite frank SS looked like he shrugged it off.

Juntai
Originally posted by janus77
so let's apply your logic to WW versus Uatu The Watcher.
clearly WW creams Uatu right?

or let's say Aegis versus Flash, Flash wins, spite, right?

no expression common sense trumps logic, logic just happens to be a particularly transparent and linear type of reasoning, hence its frequent application to remove confusion/provide clarity, but it isn't applicable in all circumstances. You were the one saying he beat the confused Surfer, and thus is more powerful than Superman. I was telling you from the start that A>B>C logic is not the best way to determine a victor, it's only a fraction of it.

Superman has the feats, and also has the victories over the more powerful foes.

You're the one that has to bring evidence of Runner being able to beat Superman to the table, besides wild speculation and character hype. No need to insult my intelligence over it.

The truth is, you can't, because the evidence doesn't exist.
Thus, the arguement that's he's superior doesn't exist.
Thus, Superman clearly triumphs.

Alfheim
Originally posted by ultimatethor
Now this superman having beaten guys above thanos and surfer is a really weak argument. Most of his victories iver people that are above SS and thanos level were highly based on the circumstances and involved great bouts of PIS and CIS
and certainly not due to his own power. s

This is what I suspect. Supes is herald level character you don beat uiversal threats and all-powerful people without CIS, PIS or cirumstance. Its like when people tell me that MM easily controlled Spectre, sounds like PIS. Spectre is abstract what is MM easily doing controlling him?

janus77
Originally posted by Juntai
You were the one saying he beat the confused Surfer, and thus is more powerful than Superman. I was telling you from the start that A>B>C logic is not the best way to determine a victor, it's only a fraction of it.

Superman has the feats, and also has the victories over the more powerful foes.

You're the one that has to bring evidence of Runner being able to beat Superman to the table, besides wild speculation and character hype. No need to insult my intelligence over it.

The truth is, you can't, because the evidence doesn't exist.
Thus, the arguement that's he's superior doesn't exist.
Thus, Superman clearly triumphs.
I was pointing out the reason why I think Runner is far out of Superman's league. you wanted to go by "feats" (volume of high showings), so I demonstrated the absurdity of sticking with that method too rigidly.

since you failed to respond to the point about the comparative lack of 'comic time' for Runner, and most importantly his fringe role in Marvel comicdom, as opposed to Superman's iconic and central role within DC comics, I had no choice but to demonstrate that your logic was not applicable in this situation.

I'm not insulting your intelligence, as such, just wondering how you think you can base their relative powers purely on "feats". it's not a reasonable way to go about comparing them no expression.

Juntai
Originally posted by ultimatethor
The runner is not a mainstream character so therefore him not having many feats is understandable. Now this superman having beaten guys above thanos and surfer is a really weak argument. Most of his victories iver people that are above SS and thanos level were highly based on the circumstances and involved great bouts of PIS and CIS
and certainly not due to his own power. Heck the surfer has taken galctus on more than one occassion and thor has taken galactus and a celestial and who hasnt thanos beaten? The point is unless the victory showed that the character was truly more powerful than his opponent then it counts for nothing. Thats the difference between the runners victories and supermans, the runners victories over surfer and thanos were legit( without PIS ) and actually showed him as being more powerful than them. The runner would take supes easy and the surfer is above any green lantern. Surfers team wins this with no problems Runner didn't defeat Thanos. Thanos was the one left standing in Thanos Quest. A good showing? Sure. A win? Far from it. Winning requires him to have had Thanos submit, be knocked out, or some other variable of the same kind when their fight ended. None of these took place, and Thanos was left standing. Simple as that.


What in-continuity issue did Surfer defeat Galactus in?

You're claiming the victories are more validated than Superman's, but only out of speculation and the fact that it was a generalised comment and you haven't refuted or disproved anything here.

Juntai
Originally posted by janus77
I was pointing out the reason why I think Runner is far out of Superman's league. you wanted to go by "feats" (volume of high showings), so I demonstrated the absurdity of sticking with that method too rigidly.

since you failed to respond to the point about the comparative lack of 'comic time' for Runner, and most importantly his fringe role in Marvel comicdom, as opposed to Superman's iconic and central role within DC comics, I had no choice but to demonstrate that your logic was not applicable in this situation.

I'm not insulting your intelligence, as such, just wondering how you think you can base their relative powers purely on "feats". it's not a reasonable way to go about comparing them no expression. I've acknowledged his lack of appearances several times. But what it comes down to this- his wins aren't as impressive as Supermans, and his feats aren't as impressive as Supermans in nearly any category. Leaving no reason to believe he's mightier save hopes and desires.

If you're admittedly saying you believe he's stronger just "because", so be it. I can't debate a complete lack of anything resembling a stance with a complete lack of evidence to base it upon.

But when we judge their on panel performances, it's simply not true.

Sundipped
Runner and Surfer got this one.

janus77
Originally posted by Juntai
I've acknowledged his lack of appearances several times. But what it comes down to this- his wins aren't as impressive as Supermans, and his feats aren't as impressive as Supermans in nearly any category. Leaving no reason to believe he's mightier save hopes and desires.

If you're admittedly saying you believe he's stronger just "because", so be it. I can't debate a complete lack of anything resembling a stance with a complete lack of evidence to base it upon.

But when we judge their on panel performances, it's simply not true.
we're going round-and-around in circles here. his "feats" are in direct proportion to his appearances, he doesn't have many ergo you can only judge him on what he's been shown to do and what Marvel rate him as (an Elder is significantly beyond Surfer, iirc).

the comparison of "feats" is what I am referring to as being an inadequate means of assessing these two, and I have demonstrated how it would tend to produce absurd results (WW >> Aegis for instance).

you cannot deny the limitations of such feats-comparison when characters occupy so vastly differing amounts of 'comic time', so why persist in going on and on about Superman's feats.

either you view Superman as being more powerful than Thanos and Surfer, in which case you're free to say that he would beat Runner, or you view him as being somewhere closer to what many here (including myself, naturally) see him as - mid-tier herald at best - in which case, reason suggests that if Surfer and Thanos got slapped down by Runner, then Superman wouldn't fare any better at all.

just out of curiosity, how do you envisage Superman beating/touching/hitting Runner?

Juntai
Originally posted by janus77
we're going round-and-around in circles here. his "feats" are in direct proportion to his appearances, he doesn't have many ergo you can only judge him on what he's been shown to do and what Marvel rate him as (an Elder is significantly beyond Surfer, iirc).

the comparison of "feats" is what I am referring to as being an inadequate means of assessing these two, and I have demonstrated how it would tend to produce absurd results (WW >> Aegis for instance).

you cannot deny the limitations of such feats-comparison when characters occupy so vastly differing amounts of 'comic time', so why persist in going on and on about Superman's feats.

either you view Superman as being more powerful than Thanos and Surfer, in which case you're free to say that he would beat Runner, or you view him as being somewhere closer to what many here (including myself, naturally) see him as - mid-tier herald at best - in which case, reason suggests that if Surfer and Thanos got slapped down by Runner, then Superman wouldn't fare any better at all.

just out of curiosity, how do you envisage Superman beating/touching/hitting Runner? So what you're saying is- you have nothing. I won't keep repeating myself much longer.
Superman has defeated more powerful foes than Runner has.
Superman has the feats.

Comics is what we debate, not hype, speculation, and hopes and dreams.

Runner didn't defeat Thanos. His only victory over a legitimized character is taking down a confused Silver Surfer.


If you feel that Elders are vastly beyond Heralds, explain Surfer and Obliterator? Gladiator and Ego? Beta Ray Bill and Ego?
How about this?
http://img243.imageshack.us/my.php?image=silversurfer198800919eq1.jpg
http://img243.imageshack.us/my.php?image=silversurfer198800920tf9.jpg

janus77
sigh no expression.

ok, so going by comparing "feats", would you agree with me that WonderWoman would beat Ashema? or let's say Superman would beat Zeus?

Juntai
Also, when Runner returned the group of Elders and was gloating his victory, it was said that Surfer was not at full power due to other battles in the same arc- Champion and Korvac, and overcoming plotting by Grandmaster for his downfall.

And then ALSO in the very same arc AFTER the Runner fight, Surfer and Nova give most of the entire lot of Elders trouble at once, and almost destroy them, by simply throwing them towards a black hole? --

And as stated before of course, Runner didn't defeat Thanos. Thanos was the one left standing in Thanos Quest. A good showing? Sure. A win? Far from it. Winning requires him to have had Thanos submit, be knocked out, or some other variable of the same kind when their fight ended. None of these took place, and Thanos was left standing.

Madvillain
Good debate.

quanchi112
Originally posted by janus77
sigh no expression.

ok, so going by comparing "feats", would you agree with me that WonderWoman would beat Ashema? or let's say Superman would beat Zeus? Very good point.

Alfheim
Originally posted by Juntai
Runner didn't defeat Thanos. Thanos was the one left standing in Thanos Quest. A good showing? Sure. A win? Far from it. Winning requires him to have had Thanos submit, be knocked out, or some other variable of the same kind when their fight ended. None of these took place, and Thanos was left standing. Simple as that.



I dunno man I thought I explained this. *shrug*

Originally posted by Alfheim


As for Thanos, Runner could have killed him easily but Runner spent too much time listening to Thanos and Thanos used the time gem on him. If Thanos did not have the gem he would have died and Runner didnt use the space gem to beat him therefore we can assume thar Runner is more powerful than Thanos.

Originally posted by Juntai

If you feel that Elders are vastly beyond Heralds, explain Surfer and Obliterator?

Easy not alll Elders have the same powers. Some Elders rely on tech. Oblitertors tech was more powerful than Surfer and was going to kill him but Surfer used his matter control powers to alter the tech. Its the same way Surfer beat Champion, Surfer was more versatile. Hell even if you look at Chmaps previous appearnces he could be argued that Champs should not have lost anyway.

Originally posted by Juntai

Gladiator and Ego? Beta Ray Bill and Ego?

Well what happened?


Originally posted by Juntai
How about this?
http://img243.imageshack.us/my.php?image=silversurfer198800919eq1.jpg
http://img243.imageshack.us/my.php?image=silversurfer198800920tf9.jpg

I dunno man Grandmaster is a skyfather level character and has the power to alter and create new realities and Nova is able to suck him into a black hole and he cant do anything. *shrug*


Originally posted by Juntai
Also, when Runner returned the group of Elders and was gloating his victory, it was said that Surfer was not at full power due to other battles in the same arc- Champion and Korvac, and overcoming plotting by Grandmaster for his downfall.

That doesnt matter because even if he was at full power hes not as powerful as Thanos.

Originally posted by Juntai

And then ALSO in the very same arc AFTER the Runner fight, Surfer and Nova give most of the entire lot of Elders trouble at once, and almost destroy them, by simply throwing them towards a black hole? --



That just sounds like PIS. GM on his own should be able to kill NOva nd SS. SS was a pawn in one of GMs games. Now all of a sudden he able to give the Elders hell.

The whole thing was just bad writing to make SS look good.

Originally posted by Juntai

Superman has defeated more powerful foes than Runner has.
Superman has the feats.




Well is this true? You didnt respond to this?

Originally posted by ultimatethor
Now this superman having beaten guys above thanos and surfer is a really weak argument. Most of his victories iver people that are above SS and thanos level were highly based on the circumstances and involved great bouts of PIS and CIS

I dont know if its true but it makes sense. no expression

Alfheim
Furthermore Hawkeye has beaten Grandmaster. Hawkeye > Grandmaster? Just because somebody defeats a characters does not make them more powerful. no expression

Juntai
Nothing I haven't already dealt with in the past several pages.

All you guys have is hopes, dreams and sheer denial that you believe Runner is stronger, without an iota a proof. Your Hawkeye> Grandmaster and WW>A celestial arguements are laughable at best, and really just show how one-sided this debate has become - or better yet - has been since the moment I posted in the thread.

Come back when you got something.

Erik-Lensherr
As Juntai pointed out, Superman has him in feets aswell as showings against powerfull oponnents.

The grasping at straws here by those who want Runner to win against Superman is ridiculous .

I'm not sure whether or not they didn't understand what Juntai was saying, or they just realized that they can't counter the arguments so they tried to attack him by saying that his logic is wrong.

Seriously, it's posts like this that makes people not want to post in the vs forums :

Alfheim
Originally posted by Juntai
Nothing I haven't already dealt with in the past several pages.

All you guys have is hopes, dreams and sheer denial that you believe Runner is stronger, without an iota a proof. Your Hawkeye> Grandmaster and WW>A celestial arguements are laughable at best, and really just show how one-sided this debate has become - or better yet - has been since the moment I posted in the thread.

Come back when you got something.

No you have not! You have a bad habit of being rude and obnoxious to posters. Saying that they are saying nothing and you havent proven anything.

Points made:
He beat Thanos. You said Thanos won. EXPLAINED. What did you do ignore it.

He beat SS. You said he was confused. EXPLAINED What did you do ignore it.

Supes has beaten more powerful people. Another poster said this.

Originally posted by ultimatethor
Most of his victories iver people that are above SS and thanos level were highly based on the circumstances and involved great bouts of PIS and CIS
and certainly not due to his own power.

Thats your main argument. What was your response to this.....NOTHING!!!!!!

Hell it might not even be right but at least prove that its not CIS or PIS before pointing the fingers at other posters saying that they havent proven anything.

no expression

Hell you give a goddamn scan of SS and Nova beating the Elders.
GRANDMASTER IS SKYFATHER LEVEL HOW THE HELL DO SS AND NOVA BEAT THE ELDERS WHEN GRANDMASTER ALONE HAS MASTERY OVER TIME AND SPACE. AND YOU DEALT WITH THE POINTS??????!!!!!! DO YOU KNOW WHAT PIS IS????? GOD IM SORRY IM JUST FED UP!!!!!

Juntai
Originally posted by Alfheim
No you have not! You have a bad habit of being rude and obnoxious to posters. Saying that they are saying nothing and you havent proven anything. Yes, I did.

I didn't ignore anything, Thanos won, Runner lost. Surfer wasn't at the height of his power, and was confused. The Elders made sure to tell this to Runner himself as he tried to gloat.


I responded to that poster. It's a generalised statement, and doesn't disprove anything I've said. Try harder.



Nothing has been proven. I haven't seen one iota of proof, just a bunch of ignorant kids arguing with their back to the wall, because they can't prove anything.

FUNNY, BEFORE YOU CLAIM PIS AND CIS, YOU NEED TO REALISE THAT IT HAPPENED IN THE SAME ****ING STORY AS RUNNER VS SILVER SURFER. SEE THAT? I ACTUALLY READ THE MATERIAL IN DISCUSSION HERE. AND BROUGHT THE SCANS WITH ME. HAVE YOU!?


Wiki that shit.


Peace out.

Juntai
Originally posted by Erik-Lensherr
As Juntai pointed out, Superman has him in feets aswell as showings against powerfull oponnents.

The grasping at straws here by those who want Runner to win against Superman is ridiculous .

I'm not sure whether or not they didn't understand what Juntai was saying, or they just realized that they can't counter the arguments so they tried to attack him by saying that his logic is wrong.

Seriously, it's posts like this that makes people not want to post in the vs forums : Exactly.

Thank you.

smile

starlock
Team Runner and surfer for the win

Soljer
Team one wins, in my opinion.

However, with that said, Juntai is owning bitches left and right.

Alfheim
Originally posted by Juntai
Yes, I did.

I didn't ignore anything, Thanos won, Runner lost. Surfer wasn't at the height of his power, and was confused. The Elders made sure to tell this to Runner himself as he tried to gloat.

You just dont get it do you? Thanos beat Runner with the time gem. Nobody gets a time gem in this thread. Get it???!!!!

It doesnt matter if SS was tired he still would have lost because Runner can beat Thanos. Get it???????

Originally posted by Juntai

I responded to that poster. It's a generalised statement, and doesn't disprove anything I've said. Try harder.

Prove it. Just by saying it doesnt prove anything.


Originally posted by Juntai

Nothing has been proven. I haven't seen one iota of proof, just a bunch of ignorant kids arguing with their back to the wall, because they can't prove anything.

FUNNY, BEFORE YOU CLAIM PIS AND CIS, YOU NEED TO REALISE THAT IT HAPPENED IN THE SAME ****ING STORY AS RUNNER VS SILVER SURFER. SEE THAT? I ACTUALLY READ THE MATERIAL IN DISCUSSION HERE. AND BROUGHT THE SCANS WITH ME. HAVE YOU!?


IT HAPPENED IN THE SAME ****ING STORY? WHAT ISSUE 3??? NO IT DIDNT. IVE BEEN COLLECTING SS FROM ISSUE 6 AND HAVE READ THE THANOS QUEST. I KNOW THAT INCIDENT WITH THE BLACK HOLE DIDNT HAPPEN IN ISSUE 3 BECAUSE IVE READ THAT ISSUE!!! SO YES I HAVE READ THE MATERIAL. AT LEAST I CAN INTERPRET SCANS PROPERLY. CAN YOU???

Wiki that shit

Peace out.

Alfheim
Furthermore even if I had not read the issue you can apply common sense. Surfer and Nova were able to give the Elders problems by creating black holes???? Are there any black holes on KMC or planets no. So in other words it was cirumstance. The point you seem not to be getting. Weaker characters dont beat much more powerful characters without cirumstance, PIS or CIS.

I have not read the Superman issues but your intepretation of the Thanos Quest and the battle between the Elders shows you obvoulsy dont understand the concept of CIS, PIS or cirumstance. As far as your concerned when another character defeats another character thats it, without further analysis of the circumstance or how it happened. Shallow.

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