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It would be a little fairer if A) Gorgon couldn't use his optical attack, or B) Cap had a reflective shield, so he could win in the style of the olde legends. .

As it is, if Cap looks at his opponent, he loses.

right let me edit that. lol

In that case, I'm REALLY tempted to say "If Wolverine can do it, Captain America probably could too."

However, Spider-man's physical attributes coupled with Logan's healing factor? Not to mention the skills required to take out a bunch of HAND guards, blindfolded?

Eek. Gorgon is a beast.

not just a bunch of guards, all of the hands sanctuary guards, and , thas before he got the spidey-like atributes, and remeber he took out wolwerine and elektra at the same time, they had the suprise factor and shield suits, they werent a match for him.

gorgon would rape capt.

Originally posted by capt it up
gorgon would rape capt.

no question about it.

Nah

Cap should take the majority here

Cap 8/10

Originally posted by Grimm22
Nah

Cap should take the majority here

Cap 8/10

...

What!


Gorgon would walk all over Cap.

Gorgon nearly killed Logan (Arguably, he did kill Logan) He could take mora damage than the freaking Hulk. Nothing Cap could throw at him (heh) wouldn't do the trick.

Come now, I like Cap, but I SERIOUSLY doubt his ability to beat Gorgon. Cap may win 1 or 2 out of ten, tops.

Originally posted by Jyppe
Gorgon nearly killed Logan (Arguably, he did kill Logan) He could take mora damage than the freaking Hulk. Nothing Cap could throw at him (heh) wouldn't do the trick.

Double negatives, friend.

Originally posted by Soljer
Double negatives, friend.

Hmm, what do you mean? Gorgon did nearly kill, or killed Logan in the beginning of the arc. He was turned to a HYDRA agent. It wasn't stated that wether the opponent needs to be entirely dead in order for him to be converted and resurrected at the same time. But, he was able to immobilize Logan rather easily

And, later on in the story line. Gorgon shrugs on EVERYTHING Logan and Electra throw at him. Logan kills him via luck. (Gorgon revealed his eyes when he was about to kill Wolverine and Wolverine flashed the eyes back at him via his claws.) IMO it's bit stupid that a guy with optic attacks isn't immune to his own powers.. I mean, what would happen if he shut his eyes? Wouldn't the power affect his eye lids?

Does someone how fast this guy was? He was able to block/dodge ALL bullets fired from no more than 2-4 meters away. There were like 3-5 guys shooting with automatic weapons.

Tell me, what's Cap going to do to him?

Uhhh... I wasn't talking about that.

You stated "Nothing Cap could do wouldn't do the trick," when you really meant "Nothing Cap could do WOULD do the trick," or, alternatively "Anything Cap could do wouldn't do the trick."

I wasn't arguing the fight, I was been a smart ass.

Gorgon killed Wolverine at first because he snuck up on him.

That and Cap is a lot more defensive than Logan is.

Cap would find a way to win.

Being more realistic, Cap wins 6/10

Originally posted by Grimm22
Gorgon killed Wolverine at first because he snuck up on him.

That and Cap is a lot more defensive than Logan is.

Cap would find a way to win.

Being more realistic, Cap wins 6/10
your reasoning is retarded I am sorry, but you gave no good reasons for why capt would win. capt will find away what kinda of answer is that? that is not even a reason, that is just u had nuthing better to say and you hate every thing about wolverine so of course u think capt could beat gorgon I man who is supior in every way excpt fighting skill and even then capt's only slightly more skilled.

There is nothing to suggest that Gorgon can even be taken down by Cap (or any sort of physical assault). Wolverine and Elektra both took it to Gorgon he was stabbed several times, eviscerates, crashed into by Wolverine flying at 100mph and then fell several stories... it didn't even slow him down. He is a monster. He doesn't fell pain and he any damage he does take does absolutely nothing. Gorgon is so far out of Captain America's league it would be funny if it wasn't sad. Cap goes down faster then Elektra.

LOL

You suck.

Originally posted by Soljer
Uhhh... I wasn't talking about that.

You stated "Nothing Cap could do wouldn't do the trick," when you really meant "Nothing Cap could do WOULD do the trick," or, alternatively "Anything Cap could do wouldn't do the trick."

I wasn't arguing the fight, I was been a smart ass.

Aww damn. freaking Grammar/Spelling nazis

Originally posted by What If...
LOL

You suck.

Thats what I said to your mother last night

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
There is nothing to suggest that Gorgon can even be taken down by Cap (or any sort of physical assault). Wolverine and Elektra both took it to Gorgon he was stabbed several times, eviscerates, crashed into by Wolverine flying at 100mph and then fell several stories... it didn't even slow him down. He is a monster. He doesn't fell pain and he any damage he does take does absolutely nothing. Gorgon is so far out of Captain America's league it would be funny if it wasn't sad. Cap goes down faster then Elektra.

Yet Cap dosent stab

Cap would hold his own against Gorgon long enougth for him to get pissed and try to use his eyes against Cap, where Cap would simply raise his sheild and it would revert back to Gorgon who Cap would then simply split in half

Originally posted by Grimm22
Yet Cap dosent stab

Cap would hold his own against Gorgon long enougth for him to get pissed and try to use his eyes against Cap, where Cap would simply raise his sheild and it would revert back to Gorgon who Cap would then simply split in half


Why would he even use his death gaze on Captain America? This isn't even a fight Grimm. Gorgon is faster, stronger, more durable and he can read Captain America's mind like an open book. This fight would be over in like three panels and Cap would never even land a hit.

Originally posted by Grimm22
Yet Cap dosent stab

Cap would hold his own against Gorgon long enougth for him to get pissed and try to use his eyes against Cap, where Cap would simply raise his sheild and it would revert back to Gorgon who Cap would then simply split in half

He cant use is eyes, read the first post.

Gorgon anihilates him...Wolverine only survived their encounter becuz of his healing factor. Cap is dead.

gorgon is just to powerful for cap, hmm could spidey take him?

Originally posted by tyranus
gorgon is just to powerful for cap, hmm could spidey take him?

Spider-man is just lucky Wolverine killed Gorgon seconds before he arrived on the scene or he would have had his ass beat so hard it would have made his fight with Morlun like a shiatsu massage.

doe anyone think wolwerine could take him with his new blade???

Gorgon wins 1000/1000

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
Spider-man is just lucky Wolverine killed Gorgon seconds before he arrived on the scene or he would have had his ass beat so hard it would have made his fight with Morlun like a shiatsu massage.

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
Why would he even use his death gaze on Captain America? This isn't even a fight Grimm. Gorgon is faster, stronger, more durable and he can read Captain America's mind like an open book. This fight would be over in like three panels and Cap would never even land a hit. okay i am pretty familiar with enmey of the state, and since forum rules say that both characters know of each other i am going to say that 1 caps shield is reflective enough to show gorgon his own reflection, and 2, cap is very strategic in battle and wouldnt simply engage in this fight in h2h. He would most likely attmpt to get gorgon to flash his eyes, but if he doesnt bite, then cap will be looking to decapitate him with the shield.

Gorgon was not nearly as fast or strong as people beilvie that is all gypsie magic. When him and wolverine finally went head to head, wolverine cut Stabbed and slashed gorgon far more times than gorgon did him, its just they had no affect. Meaning that yes wolverine was better fighter, but he finally faced someone with more durablitly than even him.

Yes i know gorgon did WHAIL on Elektra and that was bad ass. But if elektra got trunced like that, and wolverine didnt, im just going to say that it was a bad showing for Elektra.

Now on durability, Gorgon was pretty much a living corpse so cap would know that he doesnt need to breathe. and he never really showed much of a healing facotr, it was simply like he was just a dead guy and didnt give a shit about his corpse of a body, now yes im guessing the wounds healed but none of them instantly. Meaning that IF nerve and joint locks work on dead people, then they should work on him.

The Gameplan : Cap goes in the fight looking to try to get gorgons glasses off or and get him to stone himself, or to joint lock him into abyss, and then finish him via crushing his skull into mush.

Now for the sword, im pretty sure cap would go for the crushing of the wrist tendons, so that gorgon is only allowed to use his legs, or he would most likely just shut down his body completley with a nerve strike to the brain stem.

I dont beleive gorgon lifted anything to show that he was superior to Cap in strength. though he might have lifted a steel beam or soemthing...im not sure my enemy or the state and Agent of shield is at my Instructors house i am letting him borrow it. Gorgon has shown to be equally fast to wolverine, but not faster. In the final fight they were equals in terms of speed, and wolverine got off shots which would prove fatal to a mortal opponent. So Cap now since he has knowlege of Gorgon, he will be prepared to make all of his shots count.

And gorgon needs some feats on his list, to make him stronger, faster,more durable,nor smarter battle wise than Cap. So cap takes this one. 9/10. And so would wolverine in the rematch

Originally posted by King KAM
okay i am pretty familiar with enmey of the state, and since forum rules say that both characters know of each other i am going to say that 1 caps shield is reflective enough to show gorgon his own reflection, and 2, cap is very strategic in battle and wouldnt simply engage in this fight in h2h. He would most likely attmpt to get gorgon to flash his eyes, but if he doesnt bite, then cap will be looking to decapitate him with the shield.

Gorgon was not nearly as fast or strong as people beilvie that is all gypsie magic. When him and wolverine finally went head to head, wolverine cut Stabbed and slashed gorgon far more times than gorgon did him, its just they had no affect. Meaning that yes wolverine was better fighter, but he finally faced someone with more durablitly than even him.

Yes i know gorgon did WHAIL on Elektra and that was bad ass. But if elektra got trunced like that, and wolverine didnt, im just going to say that it was a bad showing for Elektra.

Now on durability, Gorgon was pretty much a living corpse so cap would know that he doesnt need to breathe. and he never really showed much of a healing facotr, it was simply like he was just a dead guy and didnt give a shit about his corpse of a body, now yes im guessing the wounds healed but none of them instantly. Meaning that IF nerve and joint locks work on dead people, then they should work on him.

The Gameplan : Cap goes in the fight looking to try to get gorgons glasses off or and get him to stone himself, or to joint lock him into abyss, and then finish him via crushing his skull into mush.

Now for the sword, im pretty sure cap would go for the crushing of the wrist tendons, so that gorgon is only allowed to use his legs, or he would most likely just shut down his body completley with a nerve strike to the brain stem.

I dont beleive gorgon lifted anything to show that he was superior to Cap in strength. though he might have lifted a steel beam or soemthing...im not sure my enemy or the state and Agent of shield is at my Instructors house i am letting him borrow it. Gorgon has shown to be equally fast to wolverine, but not faster. In the final fight they were equals in terms of speed, and wolverine got off shots which would prove fatal to a mortal opponent. So Cap now since he has knowlege of Gorgon, he will be prepared to make all of his shots count.

And gorgon needs some feats on his list, to make him stronger, faster,more durable,nor smarter battle wise than Cap. So cap takes this one. 9/10. And so would wolverine in the rematch
WTF
ok first off, read the first post, gorgon CANT use his eyes, anr you mentioned that he beated elektra?? he didint just beat elektra, he beated both wolwverine and elektra and he did it fast, they had all kind of gizmos to block his telepathy and more things, they had the suprise factor, if you call a suprise bombing by helicoter and then electra and logan sudenddly teleporting and skewering you a suprise factor, he still beated them and he did it so easily, the fights of cap vs logan are god fights they both hold their own against each other, matter of fact in the threads of cap vs logan the people argue aboyt why one can beat theothet, they are almost equally matched (dont wanna start a discussion if logan can beat cap or otherwise just saying they both can hold their own) and you believe that cap can just beat gorgon like nothing??? Hes freakin fast, do you remember when he bounced all the bullets??? 2gunshe looked like a freaking jedi!!!
And do you remeber when he beated all the hand ninjas??? he was blindfolded!!!
more battle smart???
dude, he beated all they threw at him and he treated logan like he was a child.
and logan got completely r@p#d, he only won because of his own power, this guy is a freaking genius and hes a telepath only reason logan and elektra werent beaten in the first seconds were because they had shield gizmos, what does cap has??? An indestructible shield


jawdrop.



damn!! beyonder sh#ted himself whe he heard caps got that, sure its indestructible and hes a master with it, but, doesit also come whit psi shileds like a GL ring? does it summon lighting or open portl like thors hamer?? does it make you tell the truth like WW lasso??
Does it throw spikes like scarlet spiders web shoters? ... no... its only and indestructible shield.
And that and only his suit is what he has for this fight so hes f#k#d.

Originally posted by tyranus
WTF
ok first off, read the first post, gorgon CANT use his eyes, anr you mentioned that he beated elektra?? he didint just beat elektra, he beated both wolwverine and elektra and he did it fast, they had all kind of gizmos to block his telepathy and more things, they had the suprise factor, if you call a suprise bombing by helicoter and then electra and logan sudenddly teleporting and skewering you a suprise factor, he still beated them and he did it so easily, the fights of cap vs logan are god fights they both hold their own against each other, matter of fact in the threads of cap vs logan the people argue aboyt why one can beat theothet, they are almost equally matched (dont wanna start a discussion if logan can beat cap or otherwise just saying they both can hold their own) and you believe that cap can just beat gorgon like nothing??? Hes freakin fast, do you remember when he bounced all the bullets??? 2gunshe looked like a freaking jedi!!!
And do you remeber when he beated all the hand ninjas??? he was blindfolded!!!
more battle smart???
dude, he beated all they threw at him and he treated logan like he was a child.
and logan got completely r@p#d, he only won because of his own power, this guy is a freaking genius and hes a telepath only reason logan and elektra werent beaten in the first seconds were because they had shield gizmos, what does cap has??? An indestructible shield


jawdrop.



damn!! beyonder sh#ted himself whe he heard caps got that, sure its indestructible and hes a master with it, but, doesit also come whit psi shileds like a GL ring? does it summon lighting or open portl like thors hamer?? does it make you tell the truth like WW lasso??
Does it throw spikes like scarlet spiders web shoters? ... no... its only and indestructible shield.
And that and only his suit is what he has for this fight so hes f#k#d. you countered nothing i said.

Gorgon talked to people telepathically but never showed the power to read minds. And in the last fight with wolverine, when they go mono y mono, wolverine lands critical hits before gorgon ever even touches him, showing that gorgon isnt as battle fast as people expected.

Originally posted by tyranus
He cant use is eyes, read the first post.

Oh

Well in that case Gorgon wins this 9/10.

The 1 is because Cap will summon the power of the american spirit and obliterate Gorgon from existince

Originally posted by Grimm22
Oh

Well in that case Gorgon wins this 9/10.

The 1 is because Cap will summon the power of the american spirit and obliterate Gorgon from existince grimm gorgon isnt as good as you think he is buddy, trust me, he wouldve gotten killed by wolverine if he wasnt a walking corpse, and since cap knows this, he will be sure to take extreme precaution

Originally posted by Grimm22
Thats what I said to your mother last night

Damn that was funny as hell, just imagine laughinging hysterically and telling a woman she sux at sex lol. But Grimm you're a captain america fanboy along with some others on this site and your reasoning was pretty stupid. Try Again

Originally posted by Longinus
Damn that was funny as hell, just imagine laughinging hysterically and telling a woman she sux at sex lol. But Grimm you're a captain america fanboy along with some others on this site and your reasoning was pretty stupid. Try Again

Uhhherrmmm.....

I think he more meant, he told your mom TO suck, rather than that SHE sucks.

But whatever. Who wants to argue semantics in a 'your momma' joke?

whoops! wrong thread

''Gorgon talked to people telepathically but never showed the power to read minds. And in the last fight with wolverine, when they go mono y mono, wolverine lands critical hits before gorgon ever even touches him, showing that gorgon isnt as battle fast as people expected.''

So why did logan had psiblockers???
Logan says :
''Elektra lost her psiblocks. He can read her like a book now. Anticipate her every move.''
Gorgon mentions before that shiled his attacking all their bases, he knew this just suddendly, ok someone talked to him telepatically, so he can comunicate by minnd and he can read minds of peolple....hmmm... sounds like a telepath to me.
And the thing about his speed, you mention that logan got him good, that happened after he got bombed by suprise, logan and elektra teleported down inmediatly and knifed him, if thats what you mean by he beong hit by logan, then you are right, mind telling me how long they lasted?????
he beated elektra in almost 2 seconds, logan was gone in the next second and then he killed 5 shield agents tearing them apart, then he came bacj and nailed logan to the wall with his katana, after that he grabed elektra and went to kill fury leaving logan stuck to the wall.
Suprise attack whit all kind of shield gizmos, bombed before attacked, hit before he can react, counterattack of gorgon:he beats the sh#t of elektra and logan, and kills the whole team of agents in less than 15 seconds, and he takes that long because he stops to say something to logan, now that is being fast.

bump

Originally posted by King KAM
grimm gorgon isnt as good as you think he is buddy, trust me, he wouldve gotten killed by wolverine if he wasnt a walking corpse, and since cap knows this, he will be sure to take extreme precaution
even if capt knows this what he gunna do about it? He can't put gorgon down. Gorgon can healing any thing he hits him with. gorgon is far superior in strength. gorgon is superior in almost every single way possable. not to mention gorgon could read he thoughts and know what capts thinking. Oh did I also mention that he has level 4 speed which is faster then classic quicksilver.

Originally posted by capt it up
even if capt knows this what he gunna do about it? He can't put gorgon down. Gorgon can healing any thing he hits him with. gorgon is far superior in strength. gorgon is superior in almost every single way possable. not to mention gorgon could read he thoughts and know what capts thinking. Oh did I also mention that he has level 4 speed which is faster then classic quicksilver. you just said gorgon was faster than quicksilver.....i want a feat please.

And Gorgon is stronger your right, but he aint a better fighter, with a psi-block cap takes it to him.

Cap is the man! But somethings require some teamwork, i dont think cap could take gorgon, he would get demolished, plus cap is military he knows the value of a team, i doubt he would go it alone, personnal opinion

Originally posted by Captain_WV
Cap is the man! But somethings require some teamwork, i dont think cap could take gorgon, he would get demolished, plus cap is military he knows the value of a team, i doubt he would go it alone, personnal opinion what would gorgon do??????? if he cant read caps mind?

he didnt need to read the minds of the hand guards he took blindfolded, he wasnt capable of it then, he didint need to read elektras or wolverine minds to take them down easily.

Oh and the speed feat???
he bounced back the bullets of 4 shield agent who were firing at him with machine guns at full automatic.

Apparently the Roost dosent read all posts, just the ones he wants to read

Originally posted by Grimm22
Apparently the Roost dosent read all posts, just the ones he wants to read Nah, I just choose to ignore the ones that are blatantly overloaded with BS. Not that I'm pointing fingers at anyone...

so you actually think caps got a shot?

bump

Originally posted by tyranus
so you actually think caps got a shot? Sure, he's got a chance... a SNOWBALL'S chance.

in all fairness though.. gorgon was HEAVILY helped by wolverine's use of CIS during that fight... I said it before I'll say it again.. I sat there reading that last book and was THIS close to just screaming at it for the sheer stupidity of logan's offensive...

"okay screwball "teh claws" are not working! stop using them like that.. it's obvious poking him won't do much good, you may not be able to hurt the sumumabitch but you can sure as hell take off his limbs stop stabbing and start swinging! SWING FOR IT! SWING AWAY!"

*watches helplessly as wolverine continues to stab and then get pummbled*

"awww jeeeeeezzzzz!!!!"

Originally posted by jinzin
in all fairness though.. gorgon was HEAVILY helped by wolverine's use of CIS during that fight... I said it before I'll say it again.. I sat there reading that last book and was THIS close to just screaming at it for the sheer stupidity of logan's offensive...

"okay screwball "teh claws" are not working! stop using them like that.. it's obvious poking him won't do much good, you may not be able to hurt the sumumabitch but you can sure as hell take off his limbs stop stabbing and start swinging! SWING FOR IT! SWING AWAY!"

*watches helplessly as wolverine continues to stab and then get pummbled*

"awww jeeeeeezzzzz!!!!"

Pft

Shaggy Man >x100000000000000000000 Gorgon

Don't Make me mention Puck

cap wins

Originally posted by Grimm22
Pft

Shaggy Man >x100000000000000000000 Gorgon

Don't Make me mention Puck Nah, Gorgon would just turn Shaggy to stone FTW. Or mind wipe.

Originally posted by riceroost
Nah, Gorgon would just turn Shaggy to stone FTW. Or mind wipe.

Nope

Shaggy man is made of hair.

Thus he is invincible to anyone below Thanos

Originally posted by Soljer
Uhhh... I wasn't talking about that.

You stated "Nothing Cap could do wouldn't do the trick," when you really meant "Nothing Cap could do WOULD do the trick," or, alternatively "Anything Cap could do wouldn't do the trick."

I wasn't arguing the fight, I was been a smart ass.

Originally posted by King KAM
you just said gorgon was faster than quicksilver.....i want a feat please.

And Gorgon is stronger your right, but he aint a better fighter, with a psi-block cap takes it to him.

Faster than Quicksilver?!?! eer

Thats ridiculous

thing is, cap isn't like wolverine. cap doesn't kill. i know it is an over-used phrase, but it applies more to cap than perhaps any other marvel character -- cap going balls out willing to do ANYTHING to win is a cap we almost NEVER see. for instance, he rarely uses the edge of his shield which is sharper than any sword -- likely sharper/as sharp as wolvie's claws. he's even beheaded ultron with it! beheading might put a kink in gorgon's chances.

i'm reminded of what cap said to pym after pym betrayed him -- i'm paraphrasing: remember when you asked me the difference between superhero fighting and fighting in the war? if you don't stay out of the way i'll show you the difference . . .

gorgon IS a beast, but if cap went war, gorgon could have his hands full.

Originally posted by Grimm22
Nope
Shaggy man is made of hair.
Thus he is invincible to anyone below Thanos
??? Shaggy Man is made out of Plastalloy: a synthetic substance that resembled human tissue, meant for artificial body parts, that is spliced with Salamandar DNA. He is not made of hair. And even if he was who gives a flying *uck? Getting turned to a rock is getting turned to a rock. When Gorgon turns you to rock it's your whole body including hair.
Originally posted by leonidas
thing is, cap isn't like wolverine. cap doesn't kill. i know it is an over-used phrase, but it applies more to cap than perhaps any other marvel character -- cap going balls out willing to do ANYTHING to win is a cap we almost NEVER see. for instance, he rarely uses the edge of his shield which is sharper than any sword -- likely sharper/as sharp as wolvie's claws. he's even beheaded ultron with it! beheading might put a kink in gorgon's chances. Cap going balls out is not anywhere near as dangerous as Wolverine going balls out. Cap going balls out still has no way to win. Cap's shield is not that sharp, and not anywhere near as sharp as Wolverine's claws. If it was he would lop his own hand off when he catches it by the edge, which he does all the friggin time. If it was sharp it wouldn't be able to rebound. It would get stuck in EVERYTHING. And if Wolverine and Elektra can't decapitate Gorgon than Cap hasn't got a chance in hell of doing it. Those 2 actually decapitate people A LOT. Cap does not.
Originally posted by leonidas
i'm reminded of what cap said to pym after pym betrayed him -- i'm paraphrasing: remember when you asked me the difference between superhero fighting and fighting in the war? if you don't stay out of the way i'll show you the difference . . .That's just stupidity and ego on Cap's part. Fighting superhumans is far more dangerous than fighting Nazi soldiers.
Originally posted by leonidas
gorgon IS a beast, but if cap went war, gorgon could have his hands full. No he wouldn't. He's already taken down UPGRADED Elektra and Wolverine at the same time like it was nothing. And both of them REALLY wanted him dead. If he can pawn Elektra and Wolverine when they are going to War, what the hell can Cap do?

Originally posted by riceroost
??? Shaggy Man is made out of Plastalloy: a synthetic substance that resembled human tissue, meant for artificial body parts, that is spliced with Salamandar DNA. He is not made of hair. And even if he was who gives a flying *uck? Getting turned to a rock is getting turned to a rock. When Gorgon turns you to rock it's your whole body including hair.


He also pwned the JLA

JLA >x100000000000000000000 Gorgon

Gorgon takes the first 3 or 4 straight...

Then Cap uses military mind to adapt battleplan, anaylzing mistakes and might take a few thereafter...

But I give the edge to Gorgon with his mastery of Katana, and superhuman strenght, agility, and stamina.. plus hard to get a good foothold in a 7.5-9.5 earthquake, if even deemed necessary. Sorry, Cap.. I want to believe, but not this time.

Originally posted by riceroost
Cap would get killed within 5 seconds, maybe less.
Uh, Wolverine couldn't do it though. The Gorgon killed Wolverine once, pinned him with a sword through the throat while he had help from Elektra, and then beat the tar out of him before Wolverine won through sheer luck. Thre fact that Medusa power isn't available means the only way to beat the guy is now gone.
I strongly disagree with that. Where does it say that Gorgon's physical abilities are at Spider-Man level? Spider-Man's blows have never had that kind of effect on Wolverine. Not even close. And the guy twirls a sword nanchalantly blocking automatic weapons fire, while not looking. That kind of speed is beyond Spider-Man too, and he wasn't even trying. The guy also annihilated Wolverine and Elektra at the same time. Spider-Man can't keep up with DD (closest thing I have to Elektra) or Wolverine solo, yet this guy takes both of them at the same time easily. His physical skill set seems well beyond Spider-Man.
Even though the guy wrecked Wolverine 3 times, Elektra 2 times and both of them at the same time??? Yeah friggin right. Cap can't take Wolverine and you think Cap would win 8 out of 10 against a guy who took both of them like it was a walk in the park??? What a fanboy.
Who the heck cares if Cap doesn't stab people??? Yeah Cap uses blunt force impact a lot, but if Wolverine slamming into Gorgon at over a 100 mph and then body slamming him off the side of a building doesn't hurt the guy, what would Cap be able to do? And NOTHING is the correct answer.
How is cap going to last long enough for Gorgon to use the medusa effect? Cap wont last much longer than Elektra, and Gorgon didn't bother using the EYES on her either time he whuupped on her. Not to mention the Eyes wont be allowed in this fight, therefor your whole senario is wrong. Gorgon wouldn't even bother using the death gaze. Cap isn't worth the effort.
First Point: Your entire post is wrong because Gorgon wont be using the Eye power.
Second Point: Your level of Fanboy BS is astounding. Your entire post was laughable.
Third Point: I dont even believe Wolverine would get more than 3 wins out of 10, and I like Wolverine. For you to say Wolverine would get 9 is horrendous, even by my standards. For Cap to get even 1 win out of 10 is a gift from God.
Wrong, he telepathically ripped the location of Nick Fury out of Elektra's brain. If Gorgon can do that to Elektra (Who's mental defenses are pretty darn good, especially considering she could telepathically talk to Wolverine) he could read Cap like a book and pawn him out 1000 times worse than anything Mr. X did to Wolverine.
With a psi-block Gorgon took out Elektra in one swing while Wolverine's claws were in his lungs. Wolverine also had a psi blocker on in the last fight, yet Gorgon still beat the crap out of him. Gorgon just soaked up all the damage Wolverine could deal out. Reality check: Wolverine deals more damage than Cap, if he can't hurt Gorgon, Cap couldn't even make him flinch.
He annihilated Wolverine and Elektra at the same time and he couldn't read their thoughts. Didn't seem to be too much of a problem for him there. so all you have said so far is that gorgon can take damage. because with the psi blocks on thats all he did is take damage....and yes cap can deal more damage wolverine in instances, one majorly being that Cap can decapitate him with one flick of the shield.

Originally posted by riceroost
??? Shaggy Man is made out of Plastalloy: a synthetic substance that resembled human tissue, meant for artificial body parts, that is spliced with Salamandar DNA. He is not made of hair. And even if he was who gives a flying *uck? Getting turned to a rock is getting turned to a rock. When Gorgon turns you to rock it's your whole body including hair.
Cap going balls out is not anywhere near as dangerous as Wolverine going balls out. Cap going balls out still has no way to win. Cap's shield is not that sharp, and not anywhere near as sharp as Wolverine's claws. If it was he would lop his own hand off when he catches it by the edge, which he does all the friggin time. If it was sharp it wouldn't be able to rebound. It would get stuck in EVERYTHING. And if Wolverine and Elektra can't decapitate Gorgon than Cap hasn't got a chance in hell of doing it. Those 2 actually decapitate people A LOT. Cap does not.
That's just stupidity and ego on Cap's part. Fighting superhumans is far more dangerous than fighting Nazi soldiers.
No he wouldn't. He's already taken down UPGRADED Elektra and Wolverine at the same time like it was nothing. And both of them REALLY wanted him dead. If he can pawn Elektra and Wolverine when they are going to War, what the hell can Cap do?

i already explained what he could do. for another thing, gorgon won't be able to HIT cap like he could physically strike wolvie OR especially elektra who can't absorb near the damage logan can. wolvie can take a lot of damage, but NOT as much damage as cap's shield . . .

and i'm afraid his shield IS ridiculously sharp. as i've said it cut the head off ultron and has sliced through a host of other materials. in many cases it HAS become imbedded in materials rather than bouncing off. as far as why he can catch the edge? well, it is still a comic . . .

would cap take all the fights? no. would he take a majority? not sure. gorgon hasn't been seen enough to make a full decision. cap's recent schooling of spidey shows he is easily fast enough and skilled enough to battle superhumans with crazy speed. where is the evidence gorgon is faster than spidey who even with precog couldn't stop cap from laying into him?

i liked the above post saying cap would lose the first couple then work it out. cap tends not to rush in like wolverine or elektra, he's more cerebral.

and about the war comment -- he was refrring to a state of mind and you've simply reiterated what i said. in war (and in war he fought a number of superhumans) cap fought to kill. he almost NEVER does in comics. logan and elektra otoh ALWAYS fight to kill. a cap prepared to KILL an opponent is something we almost never see.

I really don't think that there is anything Cap can do to hurt Gorgon much less stop him. Cap tactically thinking may be able to pull some wins, but even with psi-blocks (which didn't help Elektra) and his mind I still give Gorgon this one 8/10

i don't think i'd say that many, but 6-7/10 for gorgon seems pretty fair based on his showings up to this point. i was moreorless arguing against the people saying cap has NO chance.

he certainly does. it's a battle i'd love to see in a comic.

Originally posted by Grimm22
He also pwned the JLA

JLA >x100000000000000000000 Gorgon Jesus H Christ. You need to return to your Special Education class.

No one in the JLA turned him into stone did they???
Originally posted by King KAM
and yes cap can deal more damage wolverine in instances, one majorly being that Cap can decapitate him with one flick of the shield. Uh, no. Wolverine's damage capacity obliterates anything Cap can do any day of the week. And Cap is not going to decap better than Wolverine because Wolverine actually decaps people with a BLADED object, which beats a blunt object when it comes to decapitating stuff. I swear the only thing I've ever seen from you that makes any sense is your AC/DC banner, because truly, no one rocks harder.
Originally posted by leonidas
i already explained what he could do. for another thing, gorgon won't be able to HIT cap like he could physically strike wolvie OR especially elektra who can't absorb near the damage logan can. wolvie can take a lot of damage, but NOT as much damage as cap's shieldCap is not going to be nearly fast enough to move his shield to deflect even a few of the Gorgon's strikes, since Gorgon has super-speed. And if the Shield does become annoying (which it wont) Gorgon will simply grab the Shield, take it from Cap, and fling it 100 yards away, since he's y'know super-strong.
Originally posted by leonidas
and i'm afraid his shield IS ridiculously sharp. as i've said it cut the head off ultron and has sliced through a host of other materials. in many cases it HAS become imbedded in materials rather than bouncing off. as far as why he can catch the edge? well, it is still a comicI repeat: If Cap's shield had any kind of edge it would cut his fingers off when he catches it by the rim, WHICH HE DOES ALL THE TIME!!! This is pretty obvious and I dont know how you are going to argue the point. Sharp edge moving 100 mph, caught by human hands= no fingers. The shield would also get stuck in everything. It would only bounce off of adamantium surfaces. If Cap can cut off Ultron's head Wolverine could do it too. And since Wolverine could not cut off Gorgon's head Cap wont be able to either.
Originally posted by leonidas
would cap take all the fights? no. would he take a majority? not sure. gorgon hasn't been seen enough to make a full decision. cap's recent schooling of spidey shows he is easily fast enough and skilled enough to battle superhumans with crazy speed. where is the evidence gorgon is faster than spidey who even with precog couldn't stop cap from laying into him?Yeah and Wolverine has slapped around Spidey pretty badly too, yet he (who is faster/stronger/etc. than Cap) got WRECKED by Gorgon. Cap wont do squat to a guy that Wolverine can't beat. Cap doesn't have any useful options that Wolverine does no talready posses.
Originally posted by leonidas
i liked the above post saying cap would lose the first couple then work it out. cap tends not to rush in like wolverine or elektra, he's more cerebral. I would say that's wrong, and if not it's debatable anyway. Wolverine was cerebral enough to take out Cap without his claws in Origins. And he was trying not to hurt Cap the whole time.
Originally posted by leonidas
and about the war comment -- he was refrring to a state of mind and you've simply reiterated what i said. in war (and in war he fought a number of superhumans) cap fought to kill. he almost NEVER does in comics. logan and elektra otoh ALWAYS fight to kill. a cap prepared to KILL an opponent is something we almost never see. Who cares? A cap prepared to kill is still not going to be anywhere near as dangerous as Wolverine prepared to kill. And Gorgon obliterated Wolverine and Elektra when they both wanted him dead and they were suped up. Cap will show us nothing Wolverine couldn't do to Gorgon better. Case-closed.
Originally posted by leonidas
i was moreorless arguing against the people saying cap has NO chance. he certainly does. Cap has a chance, yet Wolverine and Elektra working together and with power-ups had no chance. I fail to see the logic there.

Originally posted by riceroost

Yeah and Wolverine has slapped around Spidey pretty badly too

When has wolverine slapped up Spidey? Scans please. If you looke in the Wolverine respect thread its show him being owned by Spidey on a two occassions....like so..

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=5163223

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=5783398

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=5783454

Exept that Cap's a expert with the shield as the Poster Texcap once explained it well with this quote.




Most often the argument I've seen tends to be that
it's 'hard to believe' that it can have a sharp edge
because people aren't cleaved in twain when he throws
it at a human, or what not, but to me it becomes very
easy to believe that it simply has to be the manner he
uses this tool whether it becomes an instrument of
destruction or not. Yea, a guy that has the skill to
bank the shield off of 17 different objects in the
room to change it's trajectory to the point that it
hits the villain from behind without his knowing that
it's beent thrown juuuuuuuuust might have the ability
to tweak the shield to the point that it doesn't slice
off appendages with each and every throw.

The distinction remains with the soldier, not with the
weapon.



Meaning Cap knows how to throw it and how to catch it considering we know it has sliced through Red Scull's arm, decapitated Baron Blood and other soilders, to easily go through thick steel engines or equipment and many..many Robots. And we also know it bounces off objects and beings with Cap catching it. Leaves us with just the option that Cap knows how to use it.

Originally posted by Alfheim
When has wolverine slapped up Spidey? Scans please. If you looke in the Wolverine respect thread its show him being owned by Spidey on a two occassions....like so..

Nice try. The scan of Wolverine passed out in the graveyardfight is obviously a fake. Wolverine also won the graveyard fight. All of Spider-Man's attempts to hurt him proved completely futile, so you shouldn't be using that fight as an example. Wolverine ended that fight sitting on Spider-Man with his claws 2 seconds from sliding into Petey's brain case.

Wolverine slapped Spider-Man around in their 2-part team-up in Marvel Comics Presents and stabbed him in the gut in Marvel Knights Spider-Man.

Your Welcome.
Originally posted by Daredevil1
Exept that Cap's a expert with the shield as the Poster Texcap once explained it well with this quote.




Most often the argument I've seen tends to be that
it's 'hard to believe' that it can have a sharp edge
because people aren't cleaved in twain when he throws
it at a human, or what not, but to me it becomes very
easy to believe that it simply has to be the manner he
uses this tool whether it becomes an instrument of
destruction or not. Yea, a guy that has the skill to
bank the shield off of 17 different objects in the
room to change it's trajectory to the point that it
hits the villain from behind without his knowing that
it's beent thrown juuuuuuuuust might have the ability
to tweak the shield to the point that it doesn't slice
off appendages with each and every throw.

The distinction remains with the soldier, not with the
weapon.



Meaning Cap knows how to throw it and how to catch it considering we know it has sliced through Red Scull's arm, decapitated Baron Blood and other soilders, to easily go through thick steel engines or equipment and many..many Robots. And we also know it bounces off objects and beings with Cap catching it. Leaves us with just the option that Cap knows how to use it. You know, I might be inclined to believe this yet I have never heard anyone in a comic remark that the shield has a sharp edge ever. I never heard USAgent say it, or anyone else that has handled the shield. USAgent was pretty bad with the shield initially, yet he never hurt himself catching it and he wasn't the master at it's use that Cap was. Blame this on me not reading a whole lot of Cap comics, but I have never read that anywhere. In all the official descriptions of the shield I also dont remember seeing a sharpened edge mentioned anywhere.

All of this is pointless anyway as having a blade will not help Cap here. Elektra and Wolverine both had blades. Elektra had 2 swords and Wolverine had 6 claws and all they did was piss Gorgon off. Cap's one shield wont do anything that those 2 couldn't do.

Sharp edge was mentioned in the early avengers vol 1 and later on at the end of Captain America volume 1 as Cap stated it slices it dices. There are more instances I imagine as well.

I could get those issue numbers from the above ones that I mentioned?

Gorgon might have been making them graze because Logan has put his claws through Gray Hulk, Hulk, Wendigo, Namor , Thing and many more.

gorgon would destroy capt. gorgon has a superhuman healing factor and is dead. so to stabbed gorgon in a vital spot is like stabbing him and were else. he also has superhuman speed, agility, reflex and strength. He is a telepath and a master swords men and fighter

gorgon has never shown to be faster than Captain America, in his one fight with Wolverine wolverine got off plent of hits before gorgon hit him, so why cant cap hit him first???, because the one clear fight we have to judge him on, he was hit before he landed hits. Meaning if capt hits him first he will use the sheild to decapitate him, and win.

Graveyard fight ended with the neck breaking confession overall inconclusive, nice try though.

Originally posted by riceroost
Nice try. The scan of Wolverine passed out in the graveyardfight is obviously a fake.

I think you had better come on here and put up the real scan and not accuse me of being decietful. "Geez Midnight I thought it was authentic".

Originally posted by Alfheim
I think you had better come on here and put up the real scan and not accuse me of being decietful. "Geez Midnight I thought it was authentic".
You're covered...

Originally posted by riceroost
Nice try. The scan of Wolverine passed out in the graveyardfight is obviously a fake. Wolverine also won the graveyard fight. All of Spider-Man's attempts to hurt him proved completely futile, so you shouldn't be using that fight as an example. Wolverine ended that fight sitting on Spider-Man with his claws 2 seconds from sliding into Petey's brain case.

Wrong. Spider-Man was punching his head through tombstones and decided the only way to put Wolverine down was to break his neck (which can be done, think beads on chain). But since Spider-Man is not a killer he didn't do it which is when Wolverine put the claws in his face. Not exactly what I would call Wolverine slapping Spider-Man around when Peter CLEARLY had the advantage.

Originally posted by riceroost
Wolverine slapped Spider-Man around in their 2-part team-up in Marvel Comics Presents and stabbed him in the gut in Marvel Knights Spider-Man.

Wasn't that the same teamup where Spider-Man webbed up Logan's hands to his face and left him?

And the same Marvel Knights arc where Spider-Man punched Logan through supposedly unbreakable windows?

Besides those discrepancies I agree with what you say. The shield's edges are not sharp but when flung hard enough it can cut. Its one of it many properties that I believe was outlined in and old Avengers or Cap issues.

Originally posted by riceroost
Jesus H Christ. You need to return to your Special Education class.
.

You know some people might find this offensive.

However considering you said that Wolverine was god and can jump 50 feet in the air, I just find it funny

Originally posted by marvelprince
Wrong. Spider-Man was punching his head through tombstones and decided the only way to put Wolverine down was to break his neck (which can be done, think beads on chain). But since Spider-Man is not a killer he didn't do it which is when Wolverine put the claws in his face. Not exactly what I would call Wolverine slapping Spider-Man around when Peter CLEARLY had the advantage.



That also proves that Wolverine is not as fast and not a good fighter as Cap and DD.

Originally posted by Alfheim
That also proves that Wolverine is not as fast and not a good fighter as Cap and DD.

Not really. In the Wolverine fight Spider-Man started out normal and Wolverine seemed to have an edge but then Spider-Man got pissed and stopped holding back so him started pummelling Wolvie's head through the gravestones but Wolverine kept standing back up so Spider-Man got mad pissed and grabbed Logan's neck with the intent to break it but ended up calming down when Wolvie put the claws in his face. Against a holding back Spider-Man Logan fared just as well as Cap in CW (looking like he had an edge) but when Spidey got worked up all Wolverine could do heal from his blows. Impressive showing for both characters if you ask me.

Originally posted by marvelprince
Not really. In the Wolverine fight Spider-Man started out normal and Wolverine seemed to have an edge but then Spider-Man got pissed and stopped holding back so him started pummelling Wolvie's head through the gravestones but Wolverine kept standing back up so Spider-Man got mad pissed and grabbed Logan's neck with the intent to break it but ended up calming down when Wolvie put the claws in his face. Against a holding back Spider-Man Logan fared just as well as Cap in CW (looking like he had an edge) but when Spidey got worked up all Wolverine could do heal from his blows. Impressive showing for both characters if you ask me.

Damn....I knew you would ruin it.

damn, i thought that this tread was dead and buried, glad to see someone saw it, anyway, wolverines got something that caps doesnt have, something that allowed him to continue fighting gorgo, is healing factor, gorgon just kept busting wolverine all up and he kept getting up, in origins logan fought cap and he was holding his ground, and that was holding back, so tell me how is cap gonna resist all the damage this guy can do???

Originally posted by marvelprince
Wrong. Spider-Man was punching his head through tombstones and decided the only way to put Wolverine down was to break his neck (which can be done, think beads on chain).

no.... it can't be done....
I realize it doesn't make sense.. but logans admantium skeleton is bonded at a molecular level, it's what keeps his neck from breaking from hulk uppercuts, it's what keeps his arms from ripping out of their sockets when ba'al tried to pull him apart.. and to be frank, SABRETOOTH HAS ALREADY TRIED THAT ROUTE... it didn't work...

Originally posted by marvelprince
But since Spider-Man is not a killer he didn't do it which is when Wolverine put the claws in his face. Not exactly what I would call Wolverine slapping Spider-Man around when Peter CLEARLY had the advantage.
what advantage?

he acknowledged he only had one way to put logan down and that "one way" would have failed if ateempted then he would be stabbed in the brain... now honestly.. wolverine was the one holding back here.. he had three oppurtunities to kill parker and took advantage of NONE OF THEM.... and lets not forget when all was said and done wolverine was still quick as a whip while spiderman would barely stand up.
some advantage..

Originally posted by Alfheim
That also proves that Wolverine is not as fast and not a good fighter as Cap and DD.

no it doesn't... it just proves that wolverine saw no reason to go all out on spidey since he didn't have to...

dd and cap have to worry about being hit by spidey wolverie doesn't...

the fact that wolverine's already bested both of those aformentioned heroes in h2h proves that he's a better fighter... faster is left up to feats and between the three of them it's a tough call.

Originally posted by jinzin
no it doesn't... it just proves that wolverine saw no reason to go all out on spidey since he didn't have to...

dd and cap have to worry about being hit by spidey wolverie doesn't...

the fact that wolverine's already bested both of those aformentioned heroes in h2h proves that he's a better fighter... faster is left up to feats and between the three of them it's a tough call.

Im sorry im just not having it wolverine is not a better fighter than Cap he is overated. You hardly ever see Wolverine do stuff as complicated as what Cap and DD do in terms of fighting.

since when?


people don't think he's a good fighter when he's listed as one of the best in the MU...

people don't think he's on the level when he's punked shang chi in 45 panels and almost killed a guy that huymiliated ironfist....

people don't think he can lift the weight he's shown to lift..

take the hits he's shown to take

or heal the wounds he's shown to heal....

hell he's been known to have an unbreakable skeleton forever now and people are still trying to argue that it can be severed....


overated compared to what I ask?

Originally posted by jinzin
since when?


people don't think he's a good fighter when he's listed as one of the best in the MU...

Dont mean hes better than Cap. Tell me how does Wolverine normaly fight....hack and slash...then all of a sudden he is able to do that leg thing on cap...bull****

Originally posted by jinzin

people don't think he's on the level when he's punked shang chi in 45
panels


First of all how did he beat him hack and slash? Secondly Shang chi has no weapons and no healing factor and no armour. I thought 45 panels is alot?


Originally posted by jinzin

and almost killed a guy that huymiliated ironfist....


Hack and slash?

Originally posted by Alfheim
Dont mean hes better than Cap. Tell me how does Wolverine normaly fight....hack and slash...then all of a sudden he is able to do that leg thing on cap...bull****
no it's not bullshit..

truth be told that wolverine is used to not having to resort to using his skill.. but the fact is his skill now is better than ever since he aquired ALL of his real memories since house of m.

and it's not an "all of the sudden" thing, wolverine has always shown to have superior fighting ability, speed, and agility when his claws are comprimised.



Originally posted by Alfheim
First of all how did he beat him hack and slash? Secondly Shang chi has no weapons and no healing factor and no armour. I thought 45 panels is alot? no he used martial arts tactics... blocking shang's strikes and doing an arial assualt with jump kicks...

woops I meant 4 to 5 panels.. my bad.




Originally posted by Alfheim
Hack and slash? flipping and doging.

Originally posted by jinzin
no it's not bullshit..

truth be told that wolverine is used to not having to resort to using his skill.. but the fact is his skill now is better than ever since he aquired ALL of his real memories since house of m.

<Logan possesses memories of being a Samurai in Japan, a mercenary operative for the Central Intelligence Agency, and a "wild man" in the Canadian wilderness. Due to extensive memory implants given to Logan through the Weapon X program, any or all of these memories are suspect.>

Well lets put it this way when Cap fought the Hulk he used pressure points sure it didn't work enough, but when Wolverine fought the hulk did he use pressure points...hack and slash

Originally posted by jinzin

and it's not an "all of the sudden" thing, wolverine has always shown to have superior fighting ability, speed, and agility when his claws are comprimised.
.

Nonsense. For starter both Cap and DD are more acrobatic than Wolverine



Originally posted by jinzin

no he used martial arts tactics... blocking shang's strikes and doing an arial assualt with jump kicks...
.

Well yeah I know he can do that but so can Spiderman....and


Originally posted by jinzin


flipping and doging.

Yeah Spiderman can do that too, but Wolverine does not usually flip alot.

Originally posted by Alfheim
<Logan possesses memories of being a Samurai in Japan, a mercenary operative for the Central Intelligence Agency, and a "wild man" in the Canadian wilderness. Due to extensive memory implants given to Logan through the Weapon X program, any or all of these memories are suspect.>

Well lets put it this way when Cap fought the Hulk he used pressure points sure it didn't work enough, but when Wolverine fought the hulk did he use pressure points...hack and slash

cap doesn't have the proper means of hurting hulk, wolverine does.. and we're not talking about pressure points....

why would wolverine use pressure points when his claws are 100% more effective?

that doesn't prove anything other than cap having a reason for needing pressure points while wolverine doesn't...



Originally posted by Alfheim
Nonsense. For starter both Cap and DD are more acrobatic than Wolverine nope they are just more prone to using their agility.. when kitty pride dissapeared wolverine used his agility to fool onlookers into thinking he was beast.... wolverine has backflipped from one speeding car onto another and front flipped back into the seat of the first car with minimal effort... that's more a case of CIS than anything else. however I didn't mean that he had superior agility to either character.. but he does show superior agility compared to his more abundant showings.. the reason for that being that in the abundance of his showings his claws are not comprimised...





Originally posted by Alfheim
Well yeah I know he can do that but so can Spiderman....and so now we're debating about spiderman?




Originally posted by Alfheim
Yeah Spiderman can do that too, but Wolverine does not usually flip alot. I know.. but again.. his unwillingness to do so doesn't mean that he can't.

Originally posted by jinzin
cap doesn't have the proper means of hurting hulk, wolverine does.. and we're not talking about pressure points....

why would wolverine use pressure points when his claws are 100% more effective?



So when the green hulk was beating the crap out of him why didnt he use pressure points? Whats going to hurt more claws to flesh or claws to pressure points? In general you know it I know it Wolverine does not show that much skill in fighting but im not saying he is rubbish just not as good as Cap and DD.


Originally posted by jinzin

nope they are just more prone to using their agility.. when kitty pride dissapeared wolverine used his agility to fool onlookers into thinking he was beast.... wolverine has backflipped from one speeding car onto another and front flipped back into the seat of the first car with minimal effort... that's more a case of CIS than anything else.



Originally posted by jinzin

however I didn't mean that he had superior agility to either character.. but he does show superior agility compared to his more abundant showings.. the reason for that being that in the abundance of his showings his claws are not comprimised...





Originally posted by jinzin

so now we're debating about spiderman?


You missed the point. Can you get scans of these fights? Actually forget it dont think it will prove anything.


Originally posted by jinzin

I know.. but again.. his unwillingness to do so doesn't mean that he can't.

Being able to flip shows how agile you are it makes you more difiuclt to hit, if he were really good at it he would do it more often.

P.S. That reminds me the only reason why Wolverine was able to get to cap in the CA issue was because Cap was trying to talk to him.

Originally posted by Alfheim
So when the green hulk was beating the crap out of him why didnt he use pressure points? Whats going to hurt more claws to flesh or claws to pressure points? against the hulk?

depends.. hulk's healing factor is crazy fast... the only time cap scored pressure points was against a calm hulk who wasn't paying cap any attention... the hulk that fights logan is always an angry one.... so pressure points are going to be all but useless.. that said we don't know that wolverine ISN'T going for pressure points (there's plenty of evidence to suggest he is, as he strikes a lot at the base of hulk's skull) but wolverine's claw strikes to hulks face would be more effective than any pressure points... considering their almost not effective at all at times.. well.....

Originally posted by Alfheim
In general you know it I know it Wolverine does not show that much skill in fighting but im not saying he is rubbish just not as good as Cap and DD. which is wrong... the one time he fought dd while he was in his right mind he put dd in a full nelson in 3 panels...
the one time he fought cap in his right mind cap had to use multiple tricks and sneak attacks just to stay competetive.



Originally posted by Alfheim
Being able to flip shows how agile you are it makes you more difiuclt to hit, if he were really good at it he would do it more often. not necessarily... why would he do it if it doesn't suit his style? now.. we know that wolverine can dodge bullets if he wants to, however there's farrrrrr more instances of him letting himself be shot than dodging, why? cause dodging is a waste of time to him.. he's recognized that he doesn't need to be concerned about certain things cause of his healing factor and admantium... like when he told kitty to buckle up in the x-jet and she asked him why he didn't. "cause I can heal from a plane crash you can't."

Originally posted by Alfheim
P.S. That reminds me the only reason why Wolverine was able to get to cap in the CA issue was because Cap was trying to talk to him. no.. that's a fabrication on your part.. cap even may have been talking at first but when the fight gor rolling cap said he didn't dare hold back against wolverine.. he gave logan his best shot.. it just wasn't enough.

Originally posted by jinzin

no.. that's a fabrication on your part.. cap even may have been talking at first but when the fight gor rolling cap said he didn't dare hold back against wolverine.. he gave logan his best shot.. it just wasn't enough.

Ok I'll anwser the rest later but this makes me mad.....go and look at the scans and see what happened!!!!!


How DARE you accuse me of fabrication! He was trying to talk to logan and he got headbutted by him!

Gorgon ftw if this is the one from The Inhumans.

Originally posted by jinzin
no.... it can't be done....
I realize it doesn't make sense.. but logans admantium skeleton is bonded at a molecular level, it's what keeps his neck from breaking from hulk uppercuts, it's what keeps his arms from ripping out of their sockets when ba'al tried to pull him apart.. and to be frank, SABRETOOTH HAS ALREADY TRIED THAT ROUTE... it didn't work...


what advantage?

he acknowledged he only had one way to put logan down and that "one way" would have failed if ateempted then he would be stabbed in the brain... now honestly.. wolverine was the one holding back here.. he had three oppurtunities to kill parker and took advantage of NONE OF THEM.... and lets not forget when all was said and done wolverine was still quick as a whip while spiderman would barely stand up.
some advantage.. Wolverine was unable to really do anything, I could say Spiderman had many opportunites to web logan, but then that would destroy the point of going by what's said.

Originally posted by Tha C-Master
Wolverine was unable to really do anything, I could say Spiderman had many opportunites to web logan, but then that would destroy the point of going by what's said.

I see, are you talking about the fight in the graveyard? The impression I got was Wolverine was basically getting owned, so you're saying that is the case, please confirm because it seems some one has been blowing things out of, proportion.....again.

Originally posted by jinzin
no.... it can't be done....
I realize it doesn't make sense.. but logans admantium skeleton is bonded at a molecular level, it's what keeps his neck from breaking from hulk uppercuts, it's what keeps his arms from ripping out of their sockets when ba'al tried to pull him apart.. and to be frank, SABRETOOTH HAS ALREADY TRIED THAT ROUTE... it didn't work...

Your right, it doesn't make sense. It did happen in Ultimates and the only main diff is the in the Ultimate universe adamantium is only semi-indestructible. Both if your argument is hey its not the mainstream MU so it doesn't count then there's no hope for you. That thing with Hulk uppercuts is BS though, its the writers fault for not taking it into consideration. If they really cared about stuff like that they wouldn't have Hulk lift mountains or tankers cause thats also impossible. And Nightcrawler's father seemed to have a pretty good idea of how to get around the adamantium skeleton. Anyhoo there really needs to be some clarification about this.


Originally posted by jinzin
what advantage?

he acknowledged he only had one way to put logan down and that "one way" would have failed if ateempted then he would be stabbed in the brain... now honestly.. wolverine was the one holding back here.. he had three oppurtunities to kill parker and took advantage of NONE OF THEM.... and lets not forget when all was said and done wolverine was still quick as a whip while spiderman would barely stand up.
some advantage..

You mean the one way that Wolverine even acknowleged would have worked? And how was Wolverine holding back? I never got the impression that Wolverine was regretful about anything, if anything he was glad to finally fight Spider-Man. What advantage? The guy laying on his back with his head through a broken tombstone and a guy who can break his neck to kill him and you can't see who has the advantage?

Anyway not to turn this into Spider-Man vs Wolverine thread so I'll just state again that Cap can't handle the amount of damage that Wolverine can nor can dish out the same kind of damage. Gorgon rips him a new one

No he gave his best shot in just one punch and then continued to hold back and talk to Logan, while he had him in a hold. Imagine if Cap has continuesly had done that one punch 100 times over and with his shield. Cap still was holding back.

Originally posted by Daredevil1
No he gave his best shot in just one punch and then continued to hold back and talk to Logan, while he had him in a hold. Imagine if Cap has continuesly had done that one punch 100 times over and with his shield. Cap still was holding back.

As much as it hurts me to agree with jinzin, lol, I have to say I was also under the impression that Cap was not holding back. From when he first struck Logan and mentioned how Wolverine had it coming you could tell he was pumped and ready to go. If anything Logan comes off as the one who doesn't really want to fight. Steve does get a pretty impressive showing here though, especially with him being able to disable the claws.

And to an earlier post where it was mentioned how did Wolverine know where to slash Steve to imbolize him, well the anser is that its all part of Wolverine's covert ops training. He's been shown in the past (granted not often) to a master at things like that. Disarming bombs, knowledge of anatomy and physiology are things Wolverine has done. His agility though not played on is also impressive. The reason we don't see it is it cause as jinzin said he doesn't have to show it. Why would he waste time dodging bullets, or some punches if it only takes him a little while to get back up on his feet.

Originally posted by jinzin
against the hulk?

depends.. hulk's healing factor is crazy fast... the only time cap scored pressure points was against a calm hulk who wasn't paying cap any attention... the hulk that fights logan is always an angry one.... so pressure points are going to be all but useless..



So pressure points dont work when you're angry, nonsense. The whole reason you learn pressure points is to disable an opponent with relative ease. Whats going to do more damage on a pressure point a fist or an adamantium blade? Hes never done anything like that and all of a sudden hes slashing Cap on the leg.



Originally posted by jinzin

that said we don't know that wolverine ISN'T going for pressure points (there's plenty of evidence to suggest he is, as he strikes a lot at the base of hulk's skull)



Base of the skull....what you mean the chin.
Speculation

Originally posted by jinzin

but wolverine's claw strikes to hulks face would be more effective than any pressure points... considering their almost not effective at all at times.. well.....


Well we dont even know if he has used pressure points and you're saying it doesnt work.


Originally posted by jinzin

which is wrong... the one time he fought dd while he was in his right mind he put dd in a full nelson in 3 panels...


Thats should not happen within 3 panels.


Originally posted by jinzin

the one time he fought cap in his right mind cap had to use multiple tricks and sneak attacks just to stay competetive.


Ok that could happen.


Originally posted by jinzin

not necessarily... why would he do it if it doesn't suit his style? now.. we know that wolverine can dodge bullets if he wants to, however there's farrrrrr more instances of him letting himself be shot than dodging, why? cause dodging is a waste of time to him.. he's recognized that he doesn't need to be concerned about certain things cause of his healing factor and admantium... like when he told kitty to buckle up in the x-jet and she asked him why he didn't. "cause I can heal from a plane crash you can't."



Will even when he is not using bullets there is hardly any flipping. We can assume that he is not that good at it.

Originally posted by marvelprince

And to an earlier post where it was mentioned how did Wolverine know where to slash Steve to imbolize him, well the anser is that its all part of Wolverine's covert ops training. He's been shown in the past (granted not often) to a master at things like that. Disarming bombs, knowledge of anatomy and physiology are things Wolverine has done.

Ok fair enough. I think there was one time when he injured Phoenix, but he did it in such a way that she would not die.

Originally posted by Alfheim
So pressure points dont work when you're angry, nonsense. no its' not.. this isn't about me, it's about the hulk.... pressure points don't work on HIM when angry.. why? cause hulk gets harder to hurt when he gets angry.. look at it like this... grey hulk got COMPLETELY ran through by wolverine.... I mean wolverine's entire fist went into hulks body.... as hulk got angrier his gamma cells were reprodusing faster, wolverine's cuts were doing lets damage, causing less blood, and soon barely any damage at all, and that was grey hulk.... again.. wolverine almost ALWAYS has to fight a pissed off hulk, pressure points don't do much to a guy who has the healing consitution of liquid skin.

Originally posted by Alfheim
The whole reason you learn pressure points is to disable an opponent with relative ease. WOOOOWWWWW really?

Originally posted by Alfheim
Whats going to do more damage on a pressure point a fist or an adamantium blade?

against the hulk? AGAIN.... the blades....

Originally posted by Alfheim
Hes never done anything like that and all of a sudden hes slashing Cap on the leg
bull, he's preformed surgery on at least 2 occasions off the top of my head, when he was working for shield he sized everyone up by their vitals, he's used chin na on ninjas before, he tought kitty pride the pressure points and weak spots of a human nervous system...

the only thing that's sudden about what he did was that he was fighting like howhe should always fight... smart.


Originally posted by Alfheim
Base of the skull....what you mean the chin.
Speculation i know it is, ut your whole argument about wolveirne not being able to preform up to par like what we're talking about is speculation... I mean hell, when he was in the habitat and all his powers were removed, he took on all the super villain prisoners there using fighting skill alone.

he's fought stick to a standstill for god sakes.



Originally posted by Alfheim
Well we dont even know if he has used pressure points and you're saying it doesnt work. it ususally doesn't.. you can't use hulk as a decent comparison.. not like how you're attempting to at the moment.




Originally posted by Alfheim
Thats should not happen within 3 panels.
why not? wolverine's had more training than daredevil. more experience. he's a metahuman and dd isn't... wolverine USED TO BE PEAK HUMAN and then theweapon x project upgraded him x3 (weapon x novel).
there's no reason a guy who can punk shang chi out in 4 panels without trying would have major issues with a person like daredevil.

Originally posted by Alfheim
Will even when he is not using bullets there is hardly any flipping. We can assume that he is not that good at it.

no you can't... in some of his fights with guys like hulk, abomination.. he doesn't even get touched cause he's bouncing around them like spidey.. in some of his ninja fights he hops flips and dodges through multiple attackers with minimal effort... he doesn't do these feats often but that doesn't mean he's not good at it... we all know batman knows the touch of death, can we assume he's not good at using it because he never does?

Originally posted by jinzin
no its' not.. this isn't about me, it's about the hulk.... pressure points don't work on HIM when angry.. why? cause hulk gets harder to hurt when he gets angry.. look at it like this... grey hulk got COMPLETELY ran through by wolverine.... I mean wolverine's entire fist went into hulks body.... as hulk got angrier his gamma cells were reprodusing faster, wolverine's cuts were doing lets damage, causing less blood, and soon barely any damage at all, and that was grey hulk.... again.. wolverine almost ALWAYS has to fight a pissed off hulk, pressure points don't do much to a guy who has the healing consitution of liquid skin.

WOOOOWWWWW really?



against the hulk? AGAIN.... the blades....


bull, he's preformed surgery on at least 2 occasions off the top of my head, when he was working for shield he sized everyone up by their vitals, he's used chin na on ninjas before, he tought kitty pride the pressure points and weak spots of a human nervous system...

the only thing that's sudden about what he did was that he was fighting like howhe should always fight... smart.


i know it is, ut your whole argument about wolveirne not being able to preform up to par like what we're talking about is speculation... I mean hell, when he was in the habitat and all his powers were removed, he took on all the super villain prisoners there using fighting skill alone.

he's fought stick to a standstill for god sakes.



it ususally doesn't.. you can't use hulk as a decent comparison.. not like how you're attempting to at the moment.





why not? wolverine's had more training than daredevil. more experience. he's a metahuman and dd isn't... wolverine USED TO BE PEAK HUMAN and then theweapon x project upgraded him x3 (weapon x novel).
there's no reason a guy who can punk shang chi out in 4 panels without trying would have major issues with a person like daredevil.



no you can't... in some of his fights with guys like hulk, abomination.. he doesn't even get touched cause he's bouncing around them like spidey.. in some of his ninja fights he hops flips and dodges through multiple attackers with minimal effort... he doesn't do these feats often but that doesn't mean he's not good at it... we all know batman knows the touch of death, can we assume he's not good at using it because he never does?


Ugh! I think ive been owned. Maybe I'll try and reply tommorrow but I dont think I can. *walks out of the thread in disgust and slams the door behind him*

Originally posted by Alfheim
Ugh! I think ive been owned. Maybe I'll try and reply tommorrow but I dont think I can. *walks out of the thread in disgust and slams the door behind him*

Nah im cool. In a way its a complement because it seems you destroyed all of my points. I'll have a better look tomorrow but I dont think I'll have much to add.

Originally posted by jinzin
no its' not.. this isn't about me, it's about the hulk.... pressure points don't work on HIM when angry.. why? cause hulk gets harder to hurt when he gets angry.. look at it like this... grey hulk got COMPLETELY ran through by wolverine.... I mean wolverine's entire fist went into hulks body.... as hulk got angrier his gamma cells were reprodusing faster, wolverine's cuts were doing lets damage, causing less blood, and soon barely any damage at all, and that was grey hulk.... again.. wolverine almost ALWAYS has to fight a pissed off hulk, pressure points don't do much to a guy who has the healing consitution of liquid skin.

Fair enough.


Originally posted by jinzin

bull, he's preformed surgery on at least 2 occasions off the top of my head, when he was working for shield he sized everyone up by their vitals, he's used chin na on ninjas before, he tought kitty pride the pressure points and weak spots of a human nervous system...


*mumble* Fair enough


Originally posted by jinzin

the only thing that's sudden about what he did was that he was fighting like howhe should always fight... smart.


OK I guess so......

Originally posted by jinzin

i know it is, ut your whole argument about wolveirne not being able to preform up to par like what we're talking about is speculation... I mean hell, when he was in the habitat and all his powers were removed, he took on all the super villain prisoners there using fighting skill alone.


Well its like this. I used to have the Marvel RPG game and it stated that Wolive was one level below Cap in fighting and agility, also he was one level below DD in agility. I think that was pretty accurate and I think I have seen similar stats in other sources. When Wolverine had that graveyard fight what happened was realistic, Wolverine did not touch him once, the only time he got to touch him was when Spiderman let him. Cap and DD can connect with Spiderman lots of times which proves that they are faster and better fighters than Wolverine, but all of a sudden he is putting DD in a nelson in 3 panels and doing Cap with a slice on the leg. If he has been upgraded fine, but only because he has got upgraded.

Originally posted by jinzin

he's fought stick to a standstill for god sakes.


Please tell me he was upgraded.



Originally posted by jinzin

it ususally doesn't.. you can't use hulk as a decent comparison.. not like how you're attempting to at the moment.


I think I might have to agree with you.




Originally posted by jinzin

why not? wolverine's had more training than daredevil. more experience. he's a metahuman and dd isn't... wolverine USED TO BE PEAK HUMAN and then theweapon x project upgraded him x3 (weapon x novel).
there's no reason a guy who can punk shang chi out in 4 panels without trying would have major issues with a person like daredevil.


If he has been upgraded fine, but apart from that this is how a fight between Cap or DD should be....Wolvie trys to slice them, but they dodge and dodge until they get tired...and then he finally gets them....not getting put in a full nelson in 3 panels what a load of ****


Originally posted by jinzin

no you can't... in some of his fights with guys like hulk, abomination.. he doesn't even get touched cause he's bouncing around them like spidey.. in some of his ninja fights he hops flips and dodges through multiple attackers with minimal effort... he doesn't do these feats often but that doesn't mean he's not good at it... we all know batman knows the touch of death, can we assume he's not good at using it because he never does?

Yes I know he can be fast and be a good fighter but his agility used to be 4 and the fight between him and spidey was realistic. Im only giving allowance for upgrades.

He's getting on my nerves hes getting upgraded and punking people he should not....and now he's regnerating from a skeleton please somebody down grade him!

so gorgon tear a new hole in cap????
no more points?????
(ok i admit it, its just a bump )

Gorgon beat the sh*t outta wolvie. Wolvie can beat cap, dunno if he can do it easily. I reckon Gorgon takes it.

Bah, in a non-PIS fight, Cap should win 6-7/10

Still Gorgon is a freakin beast

Does Gorgon have his sword in this?

Originally posted by Grimm22
Bah, in a non-PIS fight, Cap should win 6-7/10

Still Gorgon is a freakin beast
in a none PIS fight capt wins 6-7.


what the hell are you on


in a non PIS fight capt is totaly screwed. PIS means no fighting out side your abilities.

gorgon has superhuman speed,strength,agility,reflex,healing factor,durability and telepathic.

capts peakhuman how can you even figure he can hang with gorgon is beyond me

I don't see how this is even a debate.

Gorgon can turn people to stone just by looking at them.

Gorgon was obviously a speedster.

Gorgon had telepathy.

Oh and he had ridiculous healing factor that allowed him to have chunks ripped out of his body.

Cap's only chance of victory is if his shield manages to reflect the glare back at Gorgon.

Which is very, very unlikely...

wow me and draco actaully agreeing lol

Originally posted by riceroost
to deflect even a few of the Gorgon's strikes, since Gorgon has super-speed. And if the Shield does become annoying (which it wont) Gorgon will simply grab the Shield, take it from Cap, and fling it 100 yards away, since he's y'know super-strong.



he'll . . . grab the shield and take it cuz he's . . . y'know super-strong' . . .?

that's . . . pretty solid. cuz cap has 'rarely' fought people stronger than he is, and on the rare occasions when he has they ALWAYS take away his shield . . .



i'm confused. you seem to legitimately believe cap's shield is dull or something. you don't read a lot of cap or cap-related material, do you . . .?

http://img179.imageshack.us/img179/4019/avgrs50025yq1.jpg

i could literally show a dozen more of him slicing through steel I-beams, multiple robot heads, stone, chain, almost anything . . . and i could show many scans where the shield DOES get stuck in things after it's been delfected off its intended course. it's been in stone walls, metal walls, it's sliced through trees, etc . . .

one final time -- yes, the shield is extremely sharp . . .



i can't explain how wolvie's neck is laced with adamantium such that his head can't be removed but he can still move his head like a normal human either . . . it's comics, logic fails at the micro-levels.

cap's catching his shield is more plausible than the wolvie-adamantium neck scenario though. given his skill with the shield why's it so hard to figger he could catch it without lopping off his digits?



fraid that type of logic doesn't fly. cap crushed ironfist, ironfist has matched wolverine. the whole a, b, c rule is never a good one to invoke.



actually he does. he has at least something of a LONG-RANGE attack option -- wolverine has NO such option. it might not help him most of the time, but in at least a couple of fights it might give cap the opening he would need. cap also has the option of letting the shield take the brunt of the damage where wolvie himself takes the damage.



not sure what book you're referencing. cap was also smart enough and skilled enough to beat wolvie by using his shield as a distraction. a low-blow by wolverine was the only thing that prevented cap from a quick and easy win.



and? cap almost NEVER fights full out with intent to kill.



opinion. and utterly unsubstantiated at that.



gorgon is without his tk in this fight. if cap fights to his fullest, using his shield to his full advantage, i see him having a chance in at least a couple of fights. where is the proof that gorgon is appreciably faster than spiderman? cap hit spidey so quick that even with his 'SUPER' speed and 'SUPER' strength, spidey was unable to evade the blows, block them and was hurt by them. AND spidey has pre-cog.

again, gorgon is tough. he's handicapped in this fight though and in straight h2h combat cap will almost always have SOME chance even if, as in this case, the chance is small.

oh, and hey jin.

Calling Wolverine overrated while defending Captain America.

The ironing is very delicious.

Gorgon wins, because I say so. And being infallible and omniscient that will suffice.

Originally posted by Grimm22
Bah, in a non-PIS fight, Cap should win 6-7/10

Still Gorgon is a freakin beast

Did you see how badly Gorgon thrashed both Wolverine and Elektra? And both of them even had time to prep and came with all sorts of weapons and armor. Cap is not gonna win

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
Calling Wolverine overrated while defending Captain America.

The ironing is very delicious.



Well actually I think cap loses from what I know about Gorgon, im actually debating something else.

Im actually debating Wolverine vs DD or Wolverine Vs Cap. LOL

Originally posted by capt it up
in a none PIS fight capt wins 6-7.


what the hell are you on


in a non PIS fight capt is totaly screwed. PIS means no fighting out side your abilities.

gorgon has superhuman speed,strength,agility,reflex,healing factor,durability and telepathic.

capts peakhuman how can you even figure he can hang with gorgon is beyond me



I said in a non-PIS fight Cap would win AGAINST wolverine, not Gorgon

Gorgon beats all street levelers

Originally posted by Grimm22


I said in a non-PIS fight Cap would win AGAINST wolverine No he wouldn't.

Cap dosent just try to hit people in any spot like most people Wolverine fights do.

He goes for the pressure points and whatnot.

I would say they are even in strength and speed. However, Cap is smarter and more agile than Logan

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
No he wouldn't.


Well this is what i think may happen...Cap trys to take Wolverine down but he cant...Wolverine trys to slash at Cap but he keeps dodging until he gets tired and then thats when Wolverine gets him

Where in my post do I give any indication I care what you think.

Wait I'll go check.

Nope can't find any sorry.

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
Where in my post do I give any indication I care what you think.

Wait I'll go check.

Nope can't find any sorry.

crybaby

Oh, be quiet, before I put you in a time-out.

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
Oh, be quiet, before I put you in a time-out.

glare

Merg...

Originally posted by Grimm22


I said in a non-PIS fight Cap would win AGAINST wolverine, not Gorgon

Gorgon beats all street levelers

Cap against Wolverine is debatable but fortunately thats not the discussion here.

Long as everyone agrees Gorgon rips Cap a new one in the most painful way imaginable all should be fine

Originally posted by Grimm22


I said in a non-PIS fight Cap would win AGAINST wolverine, not Gorgon

Gorgon beats all street levelers
not at all. in a non-pis fight capt would lose.

capt a peak human would be fighting a superhuman.

Originally posted by leonidas
oh, and hey jin. hey buddy (staying out of this one out of respect for both parties..).. loving the new sig though.... great stuff.

Originally posted by Alfheim

Well its like this. I used to have the Marvel RPG game and it stated that Wolive was one level below Cap in fighting and agility, also he was one level below DD in agility. I think that was pretty accurate and I think I have seen similar stats in other sources. how can they be a level above wolverine in fighting? the highest leve on most marvel scales is 7 and wolverine is and always has been a 7 on that scale.
agility... again.. I've seen many sources describe them on the same level.. so then it comes down to feats.... feat wise wolverine has an emmense amount of agility, enough to fool onlookers into thinking he was beast.... even if cap and dd HAVE an agility advantage it's so miniscule it wouldn't matter in comparison.

Originally posted by Alfheim

When Wolverine had that graveyard fight what happened was realistic, Wolverine did not touch him once, the only time he got to touch him was when Spiderman let him. Cap and DD can connect with Spiderman lots of times which proves that they are faster and better fighters than Wolverine, oy, the problem with this is that I can argue and easily argue at that, that wolverine didn't want to 'touch" spidey with those claws of his... the whole time wolverine was telling spidey to scram... during the middle of the fight wolverine literally lets spiderman wail away on him... his guard up, claws in the way, then he lets spiderman hit him "here it comes".... and arms go to his sides.

now that would only be speculation except for... when wolverine DID hit spidey it was clawless... and in every other h2h encounter they've had, wolverine's hit spiderman without much trouble at all. You can't pretend like the times that wolverine bitchslapped spidey accross a rooftop, kicked him in the balls, slammed his head into a tree, and stabbed him don't exist just because doing so suits your argument.. hell he hasn't even had to rely on tricking spidey's spider sense out like dd does. so no your examle DOESN"T prove that they're faster or better.. because it's heavily flawed.... not to forgot that spiderman claimed he gave wolverine "EVERYTHING HE HAD" when has he ever made that claim against dd or cap? oh that's right.. never.

Originally posted by Alfheim
but all of a sudden he is putting DD in a nelson in 3 panels and doing Cap with a slice on the leg. If he has been upgraded fine, but only because he has got upgraded. again... flawed argument.. it's not all of the sudden and how would an upgrade effect fighting ability?


Originally posted by Alfheim
Please tell me he was upgraded.

nope.


Originally posted by Alfheim
If he has been upgraded fine, but apart from that this is how a fight between Cap or DD should be....Wolvie trys to slice them, but they dodge and dodge until they get tired...and then he finally gets them....not getting put in a full nelson in 3 panels what a load of ****.

again i ask why?

wolverine's experience is above their class both combined.
wolverine's training is superior to either one of them.
wolverine was almost at cap's level before he joined up with weapon x.
wolverine's hyperactive senses are capible of dragging bullets down to slo-mo in his mind's eye.
all of this combined with his ability to go 100% longer than either of these two means a general curbstomp in h2h combat... and if we're going to argue about how the character's SHOULD be portrayed then I have a MASSIVE bone to pick with people that write wolverine in comics... but it's not up to you and I to decide how things are.




Originally posted by Alfheim
Yes I know he can be fast and be a good fighter but his agility used to be 4 and the fight between him and spidey was realistic. Im only giving allowance for upgrades.
realistic/ we ARE talking about comics here...

if you're deciding on what wolverine's capible of and what he's not doesn't that make your whole cap vs. spidey argument a while back hypocritical?

Originally posted by Alfheim
He's getting on my nerves hes getting upgraded and punking people he should not....and now he's regnerating from a skeleton please somebody down grade him! he gets on a lot of people's nerves... but being disgruntled with a character shouldn't mean that you discard the things he or she has done.

Originally posted by marvelprince
Cap against Wolverine is debatable but fortunately thats not the discussion here.

Long as everyone agrees Gorgon rips Cap a new one in the most painful way imaginable all should be fine

Co-signed

Originally posted by jinzin
hey buddy (staying out of this one out of respect for both parties..).. loving the new sig though.... great stuff.



i figured something like that. s'cool. pretty sure i know where you stand on the issue anyway. i'm sure cap would lose most (you likely think all) of the fights, but it's the degree of the beatings i was taking umbrage with. besides, i luv the underdog and i'm a small cap slappy so don't like seeing him dissed so horrendously. truth be told though, it's not really an issue i feel all that strongly about . . .

as for the sig -- never would have known about it if you hadn't brought it to my attention. i dl'd it. i thought it was good, not great. problem was i couldn't stop comparing to pressfield's gates of fire. a direct comparison of the 2 does NOT do 300 any favors. still though, a worthwhile read.

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
The ironing is very delicious.

Gorgon wins, because I say so. And being infallible and omniscient that will suffice.



not as IRONIC as your post!

Originally posted by capt it up
not at all. in a non-pis fight capt would lose.

capt a peak human would be fighting a superhuman.

hysterical hysterical

Oh Capt, you crack me up

Superhuman

Originally posted by leonidas


i figured something like that. s'cool. pretty sure i know where you stand on the issue anyway. i'm sure cap would lose most (you likely think all) of the fights, but it's the degree of the beatings i was taking umbrage with. besides, i luv the underdog and i'm a small cap slappy so don't like seeing him dissed so horrendously. truth be told though, it's not really an issue i feel all that strongly about . . .

as for the sig -- never would have known about it if you hadn't brought it to my attention. i dl'd it. i thought it was good, not great. problem was i couldn't stop comparing to pressfield's gates of fire. a direct comparison of the 2 does NOT do 300 any favors. still though, a worthwhile read.

lol.. actually i think cap could pull some wins here from gorgon AND against wolverine.. the greatest help to gorgon was wolverine's CIS in that he didn't choose to or remember to slice gorgon intstead of just stabbing him... a few shield tosses will fix that right up...

anywho... ahh well.. damn.. now I feel like a bad friend, I tried ebay got outbid every time.. then I went to the comic shops and found a couple, but I've been saving them for when I've collectied them all.. but if you've already read it welll..... oh well.. sorry bro.

no worries. i would have felt guilty taking it from you anyway.

glad you're not COMPLETELY against cap getting a win or 2. for a while there, i thought it was just me.

Cap wins, 10/10 more skilled than gorgon, and also smarter. and if gorgon doesnt read his mind, he is faster, and completley capable of severing limbs with the shield.

Originally posted by King KAM
Cap wins, 10/10 more skilled than gorgon, and also smarter. and if gorgon doesnt read his mind, he is faster, and completley capable of severing limbs with the shield.



ok....

gorgon skill is incredible, he can hold his own against cap, and that would be if they were both human and their speed was the same, gorgon is a supergenius so please dont tell me caps is smarter, he might be a better strategist, but hes nowere near to being as smart has gorgon.

I hope when you said that he is faster you were referring to gorgon, becaause hes inhumanly fast, he can bounce a barrage of machine guns with is katana, and he butchered all the shield agents and elektra and wolverine incredibly fast, and one question, why?,why?,why do you say that gorgon wont read his mind????
Is like saying that caps wil fight wothout his shield.

And see all the pages, everyone agrres that gorgon tears cap a new one, or that gorgon wins teh mayority of the fights.

Originally posted by tyranus



ok....

gorgon skill is incredible, he can hold his own against cap, and that would be if they were both human and their speed was the same, gorgon is a supergenius so please dont tell me caps is smarter, he might be a better strategist, but hes nowere near to being as smart has gorgon.

I hope when you said that he is faster you were referring to gorgon, becaause hes inhumanly fast, he can bounce a barrage of machine guns with is katana, and he butchered all the shield agents and elektra and wolverine incredibly fast, and one question, why?,why?,why do you say that gorgon wont read his mind????
Is like saying that caps wil fight wothout his shield.

And see all the pages, everyone agrres that gorgon tears cap a new one, or that gorgon wins teh mayority of the fights. cap has speed feats that better gorgon twirling around a sword to block bullets, which both DD and elektra and shatterstar have all done before, Cap has also beat teams of sheild agents equally fast.

And gorgon might have a higher IQ but when it comes to fighting, cap makes him look like a dummy when we compare knowlege.

Originally posted by Grimm22
hysterical hysterical

Oh Capt, you crack me up

Superhuman
go look at wolverines listings. he always listed at beyond human in every area. to abd you don't read wolverien either or you would not look like a moron 24/7

Originally posted by capt it up
go look at wolverines listings. he always listed at beyond human in every area. to abd you don't read wolverien either or you would not look like a moron 24/7 well technically in order for a man who only weighs 200pounds(naturally) to be able to press 800 pounds is supernatural...thats 4 times his body weight, over his head....i dont know any human who can do that

Originally posted by capt it up
go look at wolverines listings. he always listed at beyond human in every area. to abd you don't read wolverien either or you would not look like a moron 24/7

I cant believe your serious

Originally posted by King KAM
Cap wins, 10/10 more skilled than gorgon, and also smarter. and if gorgon doesnt read his mind, he is faster, and completley capable of severing limbs with the shield. Cap is not smarter than Gorgon. Gorgon is a super genius.

In science probably in martial arts/combat or tactical fighting. Cap is superior. Also just a plus Cap mind was enhanced from the SSS.

Originally posted by capt it up

Your knowledge of wolverine is terrible. Wolverine has regained all his memories.





Since when? Who said? Thats not what his bio says.

Originally posted by Alfheim

you gotta be joking. if you didint know that then you are way outdated, it happens in origins.
aNDyou can see it at the end of house of M