Phoenix vs Franklin Richards (full potential)

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FireIncarnate
Phoenix and Jean are one, so therefore no resistance.

**FI**

Grimm22
This is a joke no expression

Franklin wins this with ease.

Franklin 1000000000000000000000000000000/10

Basti0n
LOL are you drunk?

Franklin Can manipulate reality, Phoenix can control and if she wishes destory it. She would burn away Franklin

sexyking
Originally posted by Basti0n
LOL are you drunk?

Franklin Can manipulate reality, Phoenix can control and if she wishes destory it. She would burn away Franklin

yes And please Grimm22 dont argue we all know what happens when anyone sides against the phoenix (He will come with his essays ) evil face

sexyking
Doble post

Grimm22
Oh please, Franklin was creating pocket dimension when he was 5 years old roll eyes (sarcastic)

Franklin at full potential is way above Phoneix level yes

juggernaut66666
phoenix>>>>galactus wink

Grimm22
Originally posted by juggernaut66666
phoenix>>>>galactus wink

Franklin >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Galactus yes

Franklin creates a dimension full of cyclops and suns to keep Phoneix happy big grin

FireIncarnate
Originally posted by Grimm22
Franklin >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Galactus yes

Franklin creates a dimension full of cyclops and suns to keep Phoneix happy big grin

Then Phoenix sees through the deception, destroys the dimension and rips apart the patronising reality warper molecule by molceule. Or travel back in time and erase his birth.

**FI**

Phoenix_Avatar9
or more specifically atom by atom, lol jp stick out tongue

Grimm22
Oh come on What the f**k?

Franklin is on Celestial level

juggernaut66666
Originally posted by Grimm22
Oh come on What the f**k?

Franklin is on Celestial level
laughing phoenix>>>>celestial

Grimm22
Originally posted by juggernaut66666
laughing phoenix>>>>celestial

God damn it I hate Phoneix! mad

Seriously!

She's like Wolverine now!

Next think you know im going to hear that Phoneix > God roll eyes (sarcastic)

FireIncarnate
Originally posted by Grimm22
God damn it I hate Phoneix! mad

Seriously!

She's like Wolverine now!

Next think you know im going to hear that Phoneix > God roll eyes (sarcastic)

Just accept the fact that Phoenix is a higher being of immense power, even higher than wolverine ZOMMGZZZ!!111!!

Oh and...

Phoenix>god

**FI**

big grin

Whittdawg92
Originally posted by Grimm22
God damn it I hate Phoneix! mad

Seriously!

She's like Wolverine now!

Next think you know im going to hear that Phoneix > God roll eyes (sarcastic) OMG!!!!! some one else gets it now too!!!

Grimm22
Originally posted by FireIncarnate
Just accept the fact that Phoenix is a higher being of immense power, even higher than wolverine ZOMMGZZZ!!111!!

Oh and...

Phoenix>god

**FI**

big grin

pft roll eyes (sarcastic)

Jesus >x1000000000 Phoneix

He just pulls out a scratch table and owns her in a rap battle cool

Whittdawg92
Rhino>>>>>>>>>>>>Phoenix

FireIncarnate
Originally posted by Grimm22
pft roll eyes (sarcastic)

Jesus >x1000000000 Phoneix

He just pulls out a scratch table and owns her in a rap battle cool

Uhhh I would go on and say that Phoenix would just erase the entire battle but it would waste thread space.

So what do you have against the Phoenix exactly?

**FI**

Grimm22
Originally posted by FireIncarnate
Uhhh I would go on and say that Phoenix would just erase the entire battle but it would waste thread space.

So what do you have against the Phoenix exactly?

**FI**

Nothing besides Marvel ruining her character by Retconing the DP saga

FireIncarnate
Originally posted by Grimm22
Nothing besides Marvel ruining her character by Retconing the DP saga

But the way they changed worked well IMO. Okay maybe she shouldn't ahve been brought back quite so many times, and in such short time spans, but Phoenix is a great Marvel character. I can't wait til Warsong comes out.

**FI**

Grimm22
Originally posted by FireIncarnate
But the way they changed worked well IMO. Okay maybe she shouldn't ahve been brought back quite so many times, and in such short time spans, but Phoenix is a great Marvel character. I can't wait til Warsong comes out.

**FI**

I just want Jean back with control over her phoneix powers no expression

The first ressurection was stupid. It ruined Cyclop's character and the whole thing about the Phoneix in DP saga not being her is ridiculous

FireIncarnate
Originally posted by Grimm22
I just want Jean back with control over her phoneix powers no expression

The first ressurection was stupid. It ruined Cyclop's character and the whole thing about the Phoneix in DP saga not being her is ridiculous

I agree that the Jean clone is utter garbage, but Jean does seem to have control of her powers, well she's mre in control than she ever was. After she comes together in the White Hot room she should be set.

**FI**

Grimm22
Originally posted by FireIncarnate
I agree that the Jean clone is utter garbage, but Jean does seem to have control of her powers, well she's mre in control than she ever was. After she comes together in the White Hot room she should be set.

**FI**

The wha? Im confused, Endsong had such an obscure ending. All I know is that she and the Phoneix became who being and then she just left.

FireIncarnate
Originally posted by Grimm22
The wha? Im confused, Endsong had such an obscure ending. All I know is that she and the Phoneix became who being and then she just left.

The White Hot Room is inside the M'Kraan Crystal and is the place where the avatars of the Phoenix are placed to heal and recover.

At the end of Endsong Emma sent all of the X-Men's love to Jean causing her to become White Phoenix again. She then neutralised the even horizon and departed to the WHR to recover and eventually become reborn. However on the last page, a tiny fragment confronts one of the Cuckoos, meaning that Jean is still missing some of the Phoenix fragments and if she wants to fully become whole again, she will ahve to return to collect it one way or another.

Breathe in.

**FI**

Grimm22
Originally posted by FireIncarnate
The White Hot Room is inside the M'Kraan Crystal and is the place where the avatars of the Phoenix are placed to heal and recover.

At the end of Endsong Emma sent all of the X-Men's love to Jean causing her to become White Phoenix again. She then neutralised the even horizon and departed to the WHR to recover and eventually become reborn. However on the last page, a tiny fragment confronts one of the Cuckoos, meaning that Jean is still missing some of the Phoenix fragments and if she wants to fully become whole again, she will ahve to return to collect it one way or another.

Breathe in.

**FI**

So they once they get those fragments back Jean will be back and everything will be good again confused

FireIncarnate
Originally posted by Grimm22
So they once they get those fragments back Jean will be back and everything will be good again confused

Theoretically yes. But people writing for Warsong have said that Warsong will not be a Jean ressurrection story, but will lay the groundwork for Jean's and thus Phoenix's future. I think Warsong focuses on the Cuckoos and Emma.

**FI**

Grimm22
Originally posted by FireIncarnate
Theoretically yes. But people writing for Warsong have said that Warsong will not be a Jean ressurrection story, but will lay the groundwork for Jean's and thus Phoenix's future. I think Warsong focuses on the Cuckoos and Emma.

**FI**

Ah I see yes

Sounds good, i'll pick it up

Thanos_THOTU
Originally posted by FireIncarnate
Just accept the fact that Phoenix is a higher being of immense power, even higher than wolverine ZOMMGZZZ!!111!!

Oh and...

Phoenix>god

**FI**

big grin
Cosmic Wolverine (Logan w/ Crystal) = Eternity >> White Phoenix > Dark Phoenix

Basti0n
Eternity is nto stronger then Phoenix, in "Guardians of the Galaxy" he says so and acutally needs phoenix to save him from dying.

galan7777777
franklin was recognized as being on par with even the strongest celestials.......he would kill jean with ease

Basti0n
Again, he can only Manipulate reality, Jean can control and destroy it. Even the celestrials have respect for her power again in "gaurdians of the galaxy"

galan7777777
Originally posted by Basti0n
Again, he can only Manipulate reality, Jean can control and destroy it. Even the celestrials have respect for her power again in "gaurdians of the galaxy" isnt that dark phoenix?

Basti0n
no it wasnt. and Dalk Phoenix isnt her most powerfull form, white crown is. She exists in all realities she is the nexus of all realites. She would simply "burn" franklin away.

Mr Master
Originally posted by Basti0n
no it wasnt. and Dalk Phoenix isnt her most powerfull form, white crown is. She exists in all realities she is the nexus of all realites. She would simply "burn" franklin away.

"She exists in all realities she is the nexus of all realites"

laughing

Where'd you get this information?

Mr Master
Originally posted by Basti0n
Eternity is nto stronger then Phoenix, in "Guardians of the Galaxy" he says so and acutally needs phoenix to save him from dying.

A Phoenix Avatar can save Eternity from dying.

That's what they do.

Heal Universes from certain ailments.

But we know an Avatar is not more powerful than Eternity.

It's just their purpose in the cosmic scheme.

Mr Master
Originally posted by Basti0n
Again, he can only Manipulate reality, Jean can control and destroy it. Even the celestrials have respect for her power again in "gaurdians of the galaxy"

Actually Franky can create, then Manipulate that created Reality, or destroy it if it he wishes.

Reality being "pocket Universes"

In the Abraxas arc, Franklyn appears at Full power for a few pages, he showed control over the timestream.

Basti0n
The Here comes tommorow storyline and X-men forever.

And yes Eternity has stated that Phoenixs power dwarfs his in Guardians of the galaxy.

The only Marvel Character who can beat Phoenix is the Living Tribunal and even eternity does what he tells him to.

Mr Master
Originally posted by Basti0n
The Here comes tommorow storyline and X-men forever.

The Mkraan Crystal is the nexus of all realities.

Where in iether series (read them both by the way) does the PF become the Mkraan Crystal?

If you don't have the scans, direct me to the page, I'll post them myself to prove you right.

Originally posted by Basti0n
And yes Eternity has stated that Phoenixs power dwarfs his in Guardians of the galaxy. .

Ok.

So what has she done (on panel) to demonstrate this power that dwarfs Eternity?

This would require a feat which involves Phoenix either destroying a Universe, remaking a Universe or creating a Universe.

So when has she done any of these on panel?

Originally posted by Basti0n
The only Marvel Character who can beat Phoenix is the Living Tribunal and even eternity does what he tells him to.

laughing out loud

And Magneto evidently
http://img114.imageshack.us/img114/7328/phoenixnewxmen0011xornof9ud7vy6.th.jpg


ohh...and ofcourse Wolverine...
http://img139.imageshack.us/img139/7250/phoenixnewxmen0000qw8dv0.th.jpg

That's the Phoenix Force in both scans.

Basti0n
Read

X-men issue 154

and

X-MEN Forever

And in Gaurdians of the Galaxy, Eternity is attacked and injured and he states that he requires a source of power greater then his to fix it and calls the the phoenix, who was attacked int he same way and just heals on its own.

ExodusCloak
All Omega Mutants at Full potential would be abstracts. The Franklin Abstract is a Hypothetical character...Phoenix should win by default.

Basti0n
In X-MEN 154 Phoenix holds the universe in her hand (Franklin Included) she couldve destoryed it.

ExodusCloak
Originally posted by Basti0n
In X-MEN 154 Phoenix holds the universe in her hand (Franklin Included) she couldve destoryed it.

That's normal Franklin. Franklin at full potential would be an Abstract like Phoenix. All Omega Mutants are suppose to evolve into "Phoenix like" beings.

Basti0n
"Phoenix-like" does not mean equal

ExodusCloak
Originally posted by Basti0n
"Phoenix-like" does not mean equal


Oh it does especially when the only thing that makes Jean special is her Omega Potential.

And that's why it's pointless debating for a hypothetical character, especially one who happens to be an Omega mutant.

Mr Master
Originally posted by Basti0n
Read

X-men issue 154

and

X-MEN Forever

I have.

And nowhere did I read that Phoenix became the Mkraan Crystal, the TRUE Nexus of all Realities.

Originally posted by Basti0n
And in Gaurdians of the Galaxy, Eternity is attacked and injured and he states that he requires a source of power greater then his to fix it and calls the the phoenix, who was attacked int he same way and just heals on its own.

Actually that was Giraud of the Guardians of the Galaxy timeline that healed Eternity, NOT the PF.
http://img101.imageshack.us/img101/2889/19519313863ps0.th.jpg
Like I said before...it's their job as Avatars.

Mr Master
Originally posted by ExodusCloak
All Omega Mutants at Full potential would be abstracts. The Franklin Abstract is a Hypothetical character...Phoenix should win by default.

That would be humans.

X-Men Forever was all about Humans replacing the Abstracts, "and their lied the Stranger's conceit"

The Stranger wanted the destiny that belongs to Humans.

This is why we see the Abstracts including LT bowing down to him, because one day, the Abstracts will be as nothing to US.

He was going to use Bobby(Iceman), Juggernaut's son, Mystique, Jean(who DID NOT) have the Phoenix Force at the time, and another mutant, to do this.

Mr Master
Originally posted by Basti0n
In X-MEN 154 Phoenix holds the universe in her hand (Franklin Included) she couldve destoryed it.

Interesting..

I know that issue well.

"she couldve destroyed it"

Nice going on the speculation, but she didn't and never has.
And frankly it doesn't work that way.
Giraud can Repair a Universe too...does this mean that Avatars can destroy Universes?

Her job was to "Repair an Orphan Universe" in X-Men 154.

She also goes back in time and convinces Scott to change his mind thus altering the future.

ExodusCloak
Originally posted by Mr Master
That would be humans.

X-Men Forever was all about Humans replacing the Abstracts, "and their lied the Stranger's conceit"

The Stranger wanted the destiny that belongs to Humans.

This is why we see the Abstracts including LT bowing down to him, because one day, the Abstracts will be as nothing to US.

He was going to use Bobby(Iceman), Juggernaut's son, Mystique, Jean(who DID NOT) have the Phoenix Force at the time, and another mutant, to do this.

That makes sense but wouldn't Humans have to evolve into mutants first and then certain mutants evolve further into abstracts. Hence the Phoenix being the Ultimate Mutation?
So eventually what was once humans will now be abstracts.

Mr Master
Originally posted by ExodusCloak
That makes sense but wouldn't Humans have to evolve into mutants first and then certain mutants evolve further into abstracts. Hence the Phoenix being the Ultimate Mutation?
So eventually what was once humans will now be abstracts.

I'll agree.

ExodusCloak
Originally posted by Mr Master
I'll agree.

Cool...when I'm officially through with all Hypothetical characters...

Grimm22
Originally posted by FireIncarnate
Uhhh I would go on and say that Phoenix would just erase the entire battle but it would waste thread space.

So what do you have against the Phoenix exactly?

**FI**

How do you propose Phoneix is going to beat someone who controls existince no expression

She may control Reality but Jesus controls existince.

FireIncarnate
Originally posted by Grimm22
How do you propose Phoneix is going to beat someone who controls existince no expression

She may control Reality but Jesus controls existince.

He does? I've never seen it stated that he had the ability to do that?

**FI**

WhiteWitchKing
Is this ever going to end? Phoenix fans putting her above other cosmics on speculations. As powerful as it is the Phoenix is vulnerable and has been hurt, killed, and driven away.

It can hurt Fraklin, Fraklin can hurt the Phoenix. Like I've been saying before, the Force was saved from the ship of the Entity.

When a group like the Ultraforce and the X-Men drive the Phoenix into a portal, Franklin can kick the Force's ass as well.

After the X-Men and Ultra Force destroyed the computers of the Mothership, the Phoenix Force was freed and attacks the Mothership (under the sea).

http://img137.imageshack.us/img137/1177/phoenixressurection20010ql2.th.jpg

They hold off the Phoenix long enough for a portal to be opened.
http://img92.imageshack.us/img92/3180/phoenixressurection20011lb5.th.jpg

Not bad eh?
http://img83.imageshack.us/img83/2664/phoenixressurection20012dv2.th.jpg

Portal opens to the past.
http://img141.imageshack.us/img141/7549/phoenixressurection20013ja2.th.jpg

They actually succeed in driving the Force into the portal against it's wish. Back in the past of the Ultraverse, Phoenix teleports back to the future.
http://img141.imageshack.us/img141/9409/phoenixressurection20014uh9.th.jpg

It's action in the past is the cause of the Mothership's damage and crash upon Ultraverse Earth.
http://img141.imageshack.us/img141/517/phoenixressurection20015pl6.th.jpg

Note: The travel from the regular universe to the Ultraverse actually weakened the X-Men and the Phoenix. But the scene I have posted is after the Force was freed and refreshed (third page posted says this) where as both teams were weary after fighting the Mothership's defenses to free Phoenix.


To sum this all up, the Phoenix can be harmed and controlled.

leonheartmm
franklin richards has much higher showings as a kid than phoenix does even now. even current franklin destroys the force. at full potential its not even a debate.

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