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Okay, I have been cheering for Jack and Liz the whole time, and I still am. But i had a long discussion with my sister about it, and she had some really good points, which i thought would be worthy of discussion...

she suggested that this film has a lot of continuing jokes and themes in it... Jack chases after Barbossa for 10 years to kill him, that sort of thing. If Disney were to keep that up, Liz and Will would HAVE to end up together, because they have been paired from the beginning.
Also, she mentioned that if Liz and Will were to end up together, a lot of changes would have to happen to his character. Jack is actually the first one to label Will a pirate, in the 1st film... and says he is well on his way to becoming one. In 2 Will has been annoyingly honorable, but as he watched Liz become more and more unpredictable and pirate like, it is likely he will join in rather than pull away. The guess is that Will will do something very similar to what Liz did at the end of two---- possibly seduce Tia Dalma, or something like that, in order to save Elizabeth or something. The key is he will commit an action that really sends him over to pirate camp, thus clearing the way for him to re-win liz. Meanwhile, Liz will still be in limbo over what lifestyle she truly wants.

i still am going for Jack and Liz though. Why bother turning your boyfriend into a pirate, when you have a much better one in front of you?

We ARE going to see Will change..I have a feeling hes not going to be a very likeable character in the next..He wont turn pirate..I very much doubt that...he will do something for the "honorable men" which he thinks is a good thing..the fact he saw Liz kissing a pirate is going to make him hate them all the more..

If he was going to be a pirate, he wouldn't have been dressed that way in the 2nd movie.

hahaha... btw whats up with will's necklace in 2?

What did the necklace look like?


Oh and also..Will's father is a constant reminder to him that the pirate life "officially" SUCKS

yeah. i dont really remember it.

True...I think Will may even join forces with Lord Beckett and Norrington...I really don't like Will....so it wouldn't hurt me one bit if he turned out to be a bad guy...but don't think that will happen...but then again they did say to expect the unexpected in 3 - it will be bigger and better and darker and more adult....hey, more adult...maybe that means we will get to see a HOTT Jack and Liz moment...crossing my fingers...

I shouldn't have said that about Will...but can't help it I'm just not a big fan of Will...I guess that's why it is so easy for me to root for Jack...and I agree with Katelovespirates...Why change Will into a pirate...when you got the hottest, sexiest, craziest, gorgeous Pirate already staring you right in the face.

dont worry. i dont really care for him either. I only like him because he is hot. but thats not a good enough reason to like his character.

oh i definately dont like the character of will. i think orlanda is pretty hott and does a reasonably good job portraying him, but Will is NOT extremely likable, ESPECIALLY in 2. yeah, he does crazy things for Liz, but he's got a bad attitude, he gets angry at everyone a lot, he is SO single minded in his pursuits that his adventures all seem dull compared to everyone elses. his character NEVER seems to open up or be vulnerable with ANYONE... i dont like that. i want to see Will Turner really vulnerable or really goofy or really happy or something.
He just falls flat next to the charm, grace, humour and delight that is Jack SParrow.

i didnt mean for this to turn into a bash will thread, hahahaha. but its hard to care for him next to lovely Jack Sparrow with his myriad of personalities, his incredible DEPTH as a character...

i have to go on and say its true, Will isnt a multi-dimensional character... what does he want? Elizabeth. Why? Who knows. Does he like pirates? We dont really know. he bashes them, then tries to save Jack, then sort of turns pirate, then seems to hate them still. Is he ever just happy? nope. he just likes to be in charge, like when he is managing the battle against the kraken.
there is honor there, im not arguing that. but anything interesting? not really.
but if someone wants to present a case for will and talk about his depth, i am ready to listen!!!!

Agreed...I really don't understand the purpose of the Will character at all....he was more likeable in POTC 1 - but then again, he does fail in comparison to Jack Sparrow...even Norrington is alot more enjoyeable to watch than Will...is Orlando Just a bad actor...I've never seen him in anything else...or is it the Will character...Or is it that Johnny as Jack is just so dazzling...he pales next to him....I just don't get the Will/Liz pairing at all...I'm sorry but the more and more I think about it....it just doesn't seem suitable at all that Will and Liz end up together because they are really very different from each other...he hates pirates, and she has always had a thing for Pirates....they have NO chemistry whatsoever in my opinion...I don't get this giggly butterfly feeling when they are in scenes together...I don't sit on the edge of my seat...but with Liz and Jack...I'm on the edge of my seat...I'm giggly, I have butterflies and I'm thinking...okay what's gonna happen next,,,are they going to KISS.....

I know what you mean maybe we should start a "BASH WILL" thread.LOL

haha I don't like Will at all.....

Me don't like Will.
And neither does Jack.
gun_bandanaermm

Originally posted by katelovespirate
oh i definately dont like the character of will. i think orlanda is pretty hott and does a reasonably good job portraying him, but Will is NOT extremely likable, ESPECIALLY in 2. yeah, he does crazy things for Liz, but he's got a bad attitude, he gets angry at everyone a lot, he is SO single minded in his pursuits that his adventures all seem dull compared to everyone elses. his character NEVER seems to open up or be vulnerable with ANYONE... i dont like that. i want to see Will Turner really vulnerable or really goofy or really happy or something.
He just falls flat next to the charm, grace, humour and delight that is Jack SParrow.

i didnt mean for this to turn into a bash will thread, hahahaha. but its hard to care for him next to lovely Jack Sparrow with his myriad of personalities, his incredible DEPTH as a character...


I agree - he like things more like the traditional way, where the man takes control. He's so black and white, it's like his emotions are one way or the other - he's either happy, or sad.

Yeah he's so uptight and no fun at all...just plain old boring...whereas, Jack is fun loving, exciting...mysterious, adventurous....unpredictable...so interesting...many different facets to Jack....

I sort of feel bad for him. Because its extremely hard to be more likeable than Jack. Jack is juist the ultimate character!

It also might just be Orlando's acting. He might just need to do somehting outrageous with his character like Johnny does. Orlando might have ti losen up a bit more. I have a feeling it has nothing to do with his charcter. He just doesnt know how to change it up. Johnny does, he always somehitng different and crazy to make his role memerable by others.

Am I the only one who thinks Will is okay? Not great, but ok? He's a decent guy, practicing his sword-fighting three hours a day, letting his idiot boss take credit for his work, braving extreme bad hygeine and scurvy for Liz. And I think he is becoming multi-dimensional upon the discovery of his father.
Will's not that into pirates, and why should he be? In his experience, they ruined his dad's life and rape and pillage everywhere. He's not a girl and doesn't have the opportunity to be attracted to them sexually. But he realizes sometimes the end justifies the means and turns pirate when he needs to. That compromising of his morals makes him slightly interesting, and he'll grow.

Orlando Bloom said Will is in his own corset and it loosens up as time goes on, so he is growing, but he and Liz still aren't meant to be.

hahaha agree completely.
actually, i did see Will emulating Jack quite a lot in two. In several scenes he is doing some very Jack-esque facial/eyebrow expressions. Hopefully that will continue. I totally want him to wear some eyeliner at some point in 3.

i like him best when he is recovering from the native's drugged dart... he is pretty silly there.

Originally posted by willofthewisp
Am I the only one who thinks Will is okay? Not great, but ok? He's a decent guy, practicing his sword-fighting three hours a day, letting his idiot boss take credit for his work, braving extreme bad hygeine and scurvy for Liz. And I think he is becoming multi-dimensional upon the discovery of his father.
Will's not that into pirates, and why should he be? In his experience, they ruined his dad's life and rape and pillage everywhere. He's not a girl and doesn't have the opportunity to be attracted to them sexually. But he realizes sometimes the end justifies the means and turns pirate when he needs to. That compromising of his morals makes him slightly interesting, and he'll grow.

Orlando Bloom said Will is in his own corset and it loosens up as time goes on, so he is growing, but he and Liz still aren't meant to be.


Ok...yes he does practice sword fighting three hours a day. but that doesnt say anything. that just makes him kind of crazy. why does he have nothing better to do? And so what if he braves bad hygiene and scurvy for Liz. SHe doenst seem to really care. ANd yes he discovered his father but he didnt show any true emotion toward that. he wasnt suprised or anything. They didnt ruin his dad's life. it was his dad's fault for becoming a pirate. Even though he isnt a girl and cant be attracted to a MALE pirate, his "girlfriend" , liz, is becoming more and more lke a pirate as we know it, so technically he is attracted to one, and yet he still hates them, which once again shows he has no variety of emotion, he thinks the same thoughts, " Pirates are horible awful people and i wnat to kill them will the sword i practice with 3 hours a day, even though the person im about to marry is practically a pirate herself". He doesnt change his mind about pirates even if he oves one and keeps helping one. He wont admit he is becoming one. and thats what makes him a bad character. He doesnt change! and change is always important in order for you to get to know someone, and how they respond to things happening to them. He doesnt react or respond to important things. he remains the same which doesnt show very much of who he is.

i think that will be a big turning point for Will's character in 3... he will have to come to grips with the fact that Elizabeth, even if she pretends to be a lady, uses manipulative, less than honorable tactics to get what she wants.
i honestly think Will is enough in love with her that rather than just drop her, he will go on a journey of trying to make it work. this is where the mirroring of Davy Jones story comes in, i reckon... it will be a question of Can Will accept Elizabeth's personality and actions, and deal with not always knowing what she is up to, or will it prove too much a strain for him?
i think it will go back and forth. i think for a good part of 3, Will will try to seperate himself from Elizabeth, sticking to his arrow-straight ideals, that sort of thing. But something will happen to convince him that 1. he also will have to use less than honorable tactics to save his life or get what he wants and 2. he likes Elizabeth BETTER as a pirate than a lady.
I dont think he will make it. I think Jack will beat him out. lol.

Of course Jack will! because he doeesnt have to change to get her. it will take WIll a long ime to realize what he ahs to do and a long time for him to change. by that time JAck will already have her.

Yes, Will does have his moments....but just can't see him and Liz ending up together...they are really very different....he is just too boring for her...she is more piratey than Will, even when she is a child, she steals the gold necklace and hides it for 8 years secretly dreaming of pirates each time she caresses the aztec gold medallion. And there is old stiff Will, he is suppose to be in love with her, willing to die for her but still calls her "Miss Swann" even though she's asked him to call her "Elizabeth".....hummmm////maybe he is a eunich as Jack implies....but Poor Will does evolve as the movie moves on...he does learn some tricks from Jack...but yet on the other hand, Stupid Bloody Will messes up all of Jack's cleverly laid plans that would help all of them if Will could Just Trust Jack. Okay so at the end of POTC...Gov. Swann calls Will a blacksmith and Liz says, "No he's a Pirate." Hardly....look at Will how he is dressed at the beginning of POTC 2, does he look like a Pirate? No....he looks like A Pompass......oh well....It's not Will's fault, I guess...he can't help it if he can NEVER measure up to Jack..even if he would wear eyeliner...it would look totally ridiculous on him,,,only Johnny Depp can get away with that and look HOTT>

yes definatley. Will and Liz love each other but just as friends or like you would love people in your family. Well maybe Liz is the only oen taht feels taht way. but WIll needs to get somehting in to his head, HE WILL NEVER HAVE HER IF HE DOESNT BECOME LESS BORING AND MORE EXCITING AND ADVERNTEROUS AND CRAZY AND SO PERFECTLY AWESOEM LIKE JACK!

poor will. he will NEVER be as cool as jack. or as good looking. or as exciting.

poor Liz. if she goes with Will, she will be settling for 2nd best.

poor Jack. No one values him like they should.

enough pity parties. haha. Hey guys, remember when Liz and Jack totally make out in 2 and its the hottest thing ever?????

LOL! YES! HOW CAN YOU FORGET! THATS LIKE THE HOTTEST THING I WILL EVER SEE! ALTHOUGH I AM JEALOUS ITS LIZ AND NOT ME KISSING HIM. I DONT THINK ANYTHING COULD COMPARE TO THAT KISS!

I've actually picked up on a pattern with the movies( the writers 4 rules of script writing)..which kinda backs up the Jack/Liz thing..If you look at the writers pattern of events in movie 1 They use the exact same pattern in 2 but its with Jack and not Will.... and then it makes sense when you look at it on a bigger scale over all 3 movies..you can see what they are doing..It pretty much points to Jack/Liz. I could explain it but its hard

Ok imma try and explain it.

During the script writers commentary in movie 1..they said that they have rules of script writing.

1. No book ends
2. No book ends
3. Never kill the dog
4. Always save the kiss till last

Now. In movie 1 we think..that Will wont have a chance with Liz at the beginning. Later...just as Liz and Will are about to kiss in the middle of the movie, the Writer says that he "always saves the kiss till the end" because thats the one that always means more to the characters and the audience..He always adds in a teaser moment slap bang in the middle where the characters ALMOST kiss but it leaves you asking "omg are they gonna kiss later or what? are they going to EVER end up together?" They do at the end...Liz decides to choose Will.

In movie 2 they use the EXACT same rule..You think that Jack doesn't have a chance with Liz..she seems to be pretty set on Will..THEN..Liz and Jack almost kiss..and its pretty much around the same time that it happened in movie 1 between Will and Liz..which was the MIDDLE of the story..It leaves us thinking "OMG are they going to kiss later or what? are they going to end up together?" Well YES they do kiss..and its kinda clear that she DOES want him..but there is also the fact that it left us on a cliffhanger because it is a TRILOGY.

NOW if you put this "kiss rule" over the Trilogy as a whole..which is in fact one long story on its own...WHAT DO WE SEE?..

We see that in the FIRST part..Jack pretty much DOESN'T have a chance with Liz...then during the MIDDLE of the trilogy we are given a TEASER of what could be between Jack and/Liz just like the teaser KISS they always add into the middle of each separate movie...And WHAt always happens when there is a teaser Kiss with a character in each seperate movie?...Liz KISSES that character at the end..So IMO Liz is going to CHOOSE Jack in movie 3 because movie 2 was one BIG teaser moment making the audience wonder "OMG is she going to end up with JACK or what?"... That teaser moment was with JACK and NOT Will. THAT is very important!..

I found it very unrealistic when it seems Elizabeth is falling for Jack. I mean Will and her were going to get married a very short time before. Its just way too quick to be realistic.

It's NOT so quick if you consider the fact that she subconsciously never really wanted to be married..and its made clear from the very first moment we are introduced to her character in movie 1(when she is a little girl), that she is in fact obsessed with Pirates.

So thats LOTS of time to realise that she is not the type for a constricted life..and marriage...2 whole movies worth to be exact..

Thats why the trailer for the new movie had her little song from movie 1 "yo ho yo ho..a pirates life for ME" at the beginning..

Its reminding you that Liz wants and always has wanted to be a pirate since she was a child..Disney are reminding you of that so the excuse of "it happened to quick" cant be used because it DIDN'T happen quickly..its ALWAYS been embedded in her nature..so its only natural that she gain feelings for the very man who resembles best what she wants most..the PIRATE life

her little song in trailer is letting us know that this movie is going to heavily revolve around Liz's suppressed obsession BURSTING out ...and in a BIG way...and we all know that it DOES..

liz and jack have had obvious chemistry since they first meet in the first one. it doesnt just happen all of a sudden, to be honest.

plus, when you are spending so much time with a person, on a ship in the middle of the ocean, with nothing else to do, things are bound to get a bit crazy.

but they have known each other at least what, a year? and Liz has heard stories about Jack Sparrow all her life. All her adventures happen because of him. i think it is perfectly natural that they start falling for each other, and would be more surprised if they didnt.

No but the way movie 1 ended seemed as if it sealed the fact that Liz went with Will..remember they thought they wern't going to make another one..so it had to end where you think Will and Liz will be together forever..It had to wrap up nicely at the time..but thank GOD they put that slight chemistry between Jack and liz into the first movie..otherwise they would be screwed when it came to making movie 2..

seriously..they are using the same rules of script writing when it comes to the entire trilogy..not just with each single film.

The entire trilogy is the whole story. Each film is just a chapter in the story..so my theory does match up with it ...I hope if so then it means all signs point to JACK

Originally posted by Akira99
I found it very unrealistic when it seems Elizabeth is falling for Jack. I mean Will and her were going to get married a very short time before. Its just way too quick to be realistic.

Yeah, I don't mean to be rude, but this is a weak arguement...actually, Liz has secretly been in love with Jack Sparrow all of her life...she has heard stories of him since she was a child, just as LovelyOne points out....that is true about the Trailer to POTC 2 playing the sound of young Liz singing the Pirate song...it reminds us that Liz has always had a thing for Liz and then we see a quick teaser that looks like a kiss is coming on between Jack and Liz....Liz and Jack shared chemistry in 1 -but she really doesn't realize yet that her hero worship, undying faith in Jack Sparrow has actually developed into LOVE.....that's why she can't help flirting with him, and he can't help flirting with her - they both feel that attraction....So in other words, just because she was about to marry Will doens't make it impossible for her to falling for Jack, because she has been falling for Jack all her life even though she has only known him for maybe 1 to 2 years - don't really know the time span of the two movies...

huh now you are gonna hate me but, i have to say, Liz has been in love with Will for her entire childhood-since she saved him in 1 when he was a boy, and she took a medallion, and Will tells her at the end- I love you. i should've told you sooner(or something like that ) I loved you from the first time I saw you. -and that is when they were children. And she wasn't in love with Jack whole life-she just hurd stories , but she never SAW him, right? Well, in 2 things start to change, but if she really fell for Sparrow she wouldn't have send him to sure death!!!! If that was Will, she would try to save him- remember the 1st part when it's a big fight on ships,Will is trying to escape from water - he is trapped inside the ship and Liz sees that the medallion is gone (I hope you remember the scene ) ,Jack sees that and asks: Ahh, where is dear Will? and she rushes to help him .... Yes, she may have locked Jack to make it easy for herself that she don't have to chose later, but in that case she is a really selfish brat and I don't wanna see Jack with that kind of character. he may be a pirate ,but he wouldn't kill a man just to ease his mind. Remember a quote from Will or Liz(can't remember): He's a pirate !... "and a good man!!!!" And, maybe it is even prettier that Jack stays (as someone on the other thred said) eternal bachelor, I like to think of him as a free man , devoted only to the sea. Maybe they will find him some real pirate girl, Lizzy is just too fragile ,he would break her heart in an instant !!!

I disagree that she chained him for selfish reasons. People have been making that arguement on both sides of the Jack/Liz debate, but I think she mainly did it to save everyone. The Kraacken may have been more after the Pearl than Jack, but as long as Jack was with them, Davy would find him. She saw him as a liability to everyone, but her mistake was choosing that moment to think like him, which is what he wanted her to do.
She decided to act "pirate" rather than "lady" about getting that done, if that makes sense. So I don't think she's all that selfish. I just think she makes a lot of mistakes sometimes, and sending Jack to his death was definitely a big one.

I agree with the whole Jack being free thing. I just can't see him with a girlfriend; I always think of him as just sleeping around, well that's how I see all pirates really.. you don't really picture pirates happily married or anything lol But don't get me wrong I'm not denying the attraction and all that between him and Elizabeth, and I know what someone's saying about Elizabeth being like special and that Jack feels differently towards her (I read that in a thread somewhere, and I thought it was this one but I couldn't find it.. I think LovelyOne said it). But as I said in the other thread before (haven't posted there in a while now because the debate was becoming huuuge lol and everytime I came online there were looads of really long posts that had been added.. like pages of them and I didn't have time to read it all) I still want Elizabeth to end up with Will. Because poor Will if she doesn't.. he'd be heartbroken I'm like the only one that thinks this but nevermind..

No, I feel this way too. Will, for all his "boring" nobility and heroics, truly cares for Liz. Not many people would go after someone taken by pirates and brave storms, disease, other pirates, sharks, extreme sun, the British navy, and supernatural forces. She is his reason for living, and although he does get momentarily side-tracked by finding his father, that's pretty forgivable. He now has two people in his life to love and he will have to balance that. But if Liz were to leave him, I'd rather not see him cut out his heart and live as a crule octopus dictator. Maybe he will find another lover, which would be fine with me. I want him happy at the end of this whole thing. He is connected to Liz as much as Jack is, and she is connected to both of them. The three of them are tied together.

Yay go you! And yes he saved her in the first one and if he hadn't have done that who knows what would have happened. What a brave, thoughtful young man! He's like a knight in shining armour aww! I don't see how Disney or whoever could be so cruel to let Elizabeth end up with Jack. Because Jack is perfectly fine on his own; he wouldn't mind if he didn't get Elizabeth. He may love her or whatever (well I dunno) but how could they ever settle down in a proper relationship, even though I suppose they could just do all the pirate acts together and everything and live on the ship together. But Will and Elizabeth are childhood sweethearts awww so they should end up together. We shall have to see...

(Oh it's too long hurry up When's it out again? May something isn't it? May 25 Yaaay! But Sweden, Argentina, Itlay and Germany get it before us that's not fair!! I'm so glad we didn't have to wait until July though. Oh no actually that's bad because I'll be in the middle of my A-Levels noooooo!! Oh well it'll be a little treat and break for me inbetween my exams.)

Agreed. Leggy_n_Merry, I totaly agree with you. Liz and Will are such a nice couple so loveable, and Jack is their friend !! These 3 have thier special bond.

ya, I agree 2. Will is ok. I feel bad 4 him cuz he had to watch his fiance` kiss another man!kiss

hehe! im sry i just have to put this cuz i love homestar!homestar

alright. i finally finished reading all this! let's see.

regarding Will, I personally think Orlando does a fantastic job at protraying him. Of course, he's not the BEST actor I've ever seen but I think he does a great job. The character of Will is supposed to be uptight. People who say he hasn't changed are crazily mistaken. When we first meet Will, what's he like? He's quiet, respectful, noble, uptight, and shy. He won't call Liz "Elizabeth". He always thinks about other people and tries to stay in his place. Through movie 1 he's faced with problems, and although he still respects other people he's willing to do things he wouldn't of every thought of- and he begins to call Liz "Elizabeth". He was about to shoot himself to save her. Then by the end Liz calls him a pirate. Then in movie 2- he's dressed that way because he's getting married! You want him to dress like a pirate with eyeliner at his wedding!? thats nuts! lol. Alright. ANYWAYS. After that, he goes off to find Jack compass. When Jack wouldnt give it to him he puts his sword to his neck- he's not thinking about Jack- he's thinking about himself and Liz. So he's getting more piraty. You see him leading the crew on how to beat the beastie- so he's not shy anymore. By the end of movie 2 he talks kind of disrespectfully to Liz where as in the first one he wouldnt even say her name. I think he has really changed a lot.

but of course, i am a Jack/Liz fan too. lol. But I do like Orlando's character. Without him, there wouldnt be half a story.

But if Liz ends up with Will- My foot is going to have a nice little conversation with the writers of pirates of the caribbean's THROATS.

that was all brilliantly put. nice work. hahahaha. i liked the part about what will should wear to his wedding (even though i still think his outfit was ugly). i agree with you on all of that.

Originally posted by jdl1224
alright. i finally finished reading all this! let's see.

regarding Will, I personally think Orlando does a fantastic job at protraying him. Of course, he's not the BEST actor I've ever seen but I think he does a great job. The character of Will is supposed to be uptight. People who say he hasn't changed are crazily mistaken. When we first meet Will, what's he like? He's quiet, respectful, noble, uptight, and shy. He won't call Liz "Elizabeth". He always thinks about other people and tries to stay in his place. Through movie 1 he's faced with problems, and although he still respects other people he's willing to do things he wouldn't of every thought of- and he begins to call Liz "Elizabeth". He was about to shoot himself to save her. Then by the end Liz calls him a pirate. Then in movie 2- he's dressed that way because he's getting married! You want him to dress like a pirate with eyeliner at his wedding!? thats nuts! lol. Alright. ANYWAYS. After that, he goes off to find Jack compass. When Jack wouldnt give it to him he puts his sword to his neck- he's not thinking about Jack- he's thinking about himself and Liz. So he's getting more piraty. You see him leading the crew on how to beat the beastie- so he's not shy anymore. By the end of movie 2 he talks kind of disrespectfully to Liz where as in the first one he wouldnt even say her name. I think he has really changed a lot.

but of course, i am a Jack/Liz fan too. lol. But I do like Orlando's character. Without him, there wouldnt be half a story.

But if Liz ends up with Will- My foot is going to have a nice little conversation with the writers of pirates of the caribbean's THROATS.

Don't you mean knife instead of foot,.. or butts instead of throat??

yes. you have convinced me. i agree as well. but i still personally do not like the character. but there is nothing wrong with him.

Originally posted by diddly-dum
Don't you mean knife instead of foot,.. or butts instead of throat??

nope, i mean foot and throat.

He's well on his way to becoming a pirate, according to Jack, and is Jack ever completely wrong? He's usually dead-on, especially about people's personalities. Will might be a little slower at coming over to the "dark side" than Liz, but he crosses a few lines and yet is a decent guy all around. I am really rooting for Jack and Liz because I think they are very well suited for each other, but Will CANNOT and does not deserve, to be left all alone with only some witch telling him to cut out his heart.

thats true

Originally posted by willofthewisp
He's well on his way to becoming a pirate, according to Jack, and is Jack ever completely wrong? He's usually dead-on, especially about people's personalities. Will might be a little slower at coming over to the "dark side" than Liz, but he crosses a few lines and yet is a decent guy all around. I am really rooting for Jack and Liz because I think they are very well suited for each other, but Will CANNOT and does not deserve, to be left all alone with only some witch telling him to cut out his heart.

hahaha thats great. classic. I totally agree. you summed it up nicely.

Originally posted by jdl1224
nope, i mean foot and throat.
Never heard that one before!

Originally posted by willofthewisp
He's well on his way to becoming a pirate, according to Jack, and is Jack ever completely wrong? He's usually dead-on, especially about people's personalities. Will might be a little slower at coming over to the "dark side" than Liz, but he crosses a few lines and yet is a decent guy all around. I am really rooting for Jack and Liz because I think they are very well suited for each other, but Will CANNOT and does not deserve, to be left all alone with only some witch telling him to cut out his heart.

No he's probably never going to embrace the pirate life..there were lost of clues in movie 2 that suggest its not what he will ever fully embrace..not like Liz has..His father is probably the main reason why Will is never going to become a proper pirate..

Will is actually more suited to the role of "Honorable" man who does stupid and bad things in the name of "good"..like Beckett and Norrington..He's more like them..hence the fact he was working for them in the beginning and said nothing to Jack. Also in the next movie apparently he strikes a deal with the EITC to get Jack kidnapped by Sao Feng..or something like that..then Jack persuades him to take Liz instead


It's the characters like Will who ALWAYS become the pretty much disliked character by the end of the trilogy..the third Wheel...the one who is always honorable and honest...TEND to do something incredibly stupid and risky before it ends...they are sick of being toe good guy all the time and getting walked all over...

will has a habit of doing stupid things when he thinks its the right thing to do..Jack even picked up on this in move 1..he screws things up for Jack ALL the time..I have a strong feeling that he is going to betray everyone in the next movie.

I think that Will is going to become VERY close to the edge by ripping his heart out but his FATHER will stop him..he saved Will 3 times in the latest one for a reason..because he's going to do the same thing LATER but on a larger scale.

Originally posted by reine_mk
huh now you are gonna hate me but, i have to say, Liz has been in love with Will for her entire childhood-since she saved him in 1 when he was a boy, and she took a medallion, and Will tells her at the end- I love you. i should've told you sooner(or something like that ) I loved you from the first time I saw you. -and that is when they were children. And she wasn't in love with Jack whole life-she just hurd stories , but she never SAW him, right? Well, in 2 things start to change, but if she really fell for Sparrow she wouldn't have send him to sure death!!!! If that was Will, she would try to save him- remember the 1st part when it's a big fight on ships,Will is trying to escape from water - he is trapped inside the ship and Liz sees that the medallion is gone (I hope you remember the scene ) ,Jack sees that and asks: Ahh, where is dear Will? and she rushes to help him .... Yes, she may have locked Jack to make it easy for herself that she don't have to chose later, but in that case she is a really selfish brat and I don't wanna see Jack with that kind of character. he may be a pirate ,but he wouldn't kill a man just to ease his mind. Remember a quote from Will or Liz(can't remember): He's a pirate !... "and a good man!!!!" And, maybe it is even prettier that Jack stays (as someone on the other thred said) eternal bachelor, I like to think of him as a free man , devoted only to the sea. Maybe they will find him some real pirate girl, Lizzy is just too fragile ,he would break her heart in an instant !!!

SHE sent him to sure death because she REALISED that she LOVES him after he came back for her..that meant the WORLD to her.....So she realises that she actually has STRONG FEELINGS for him and she realises that he has them for her too BUT on a higher scale than he usually does for his women..he didn't LEAVE her like he left his other women DID HE? SHE MEANS MORE TO HIM than just a woman he wants to screw...

She is AFRAID of accepting Jack..she is in MASSIVE denial over it all..so what does she go and do? SHE GETS RID OF THE TEMPTATION OF JACK..he has become a major threat She forces herself to be with Will by chaining Jack up even if its not what she REALLY wants...look at how HARD she is finding it to LEAVE Jack there. HECK she even goes in for another kiss but fights to restrain herself...

That moment where she leans in to kiss him again is CRUCIAL its the point where the audience is SUPPOSED to realise that THIS betrayal is COMPLETELY different to what happened last time on the beach..last time she betrayed him with NO REMORSE...THIS time she probably thought she could do it again but OHH NOOO she has STRONG feelings for him this time..its not so easy for her...and you can see that its not. Remember its only the middle of the story..she has plenty of time to accet the feelings in the next movie..

I'm really surprised SO many people cant see whats really going on in that scene..she's having one MOTHER of a hard time leaving him..She didn't do it in a cold hearted way at all..YES it was selfish..but JACK WANTED HER TO DO IT.,,he was LOVING the fact she was doing it..could you not see his face?He was SMILING at her..he was silent, comletley awestruck. He was SERIOUSlY turned on by the whole situation..I'm pretty certain that this whole experience with Liz chaining him up made Liz seem a WHOLE lot hotter to him than he previously thought..it means he HAS all of ger now...not just physically but mentally too..

I agree with LovelyOne...and I know Will has changed alot, but as LovelyOne says - Will will never totally accept the Pirate LIfe....But Will tries to still do things the honorable way....Liz and Will have changed and IMO grown in different directions...sorry guys, but I just don't feel the connection between Liz and Will...there is no chemistry...Sure Liz loves Will - he was the only guy in her life worth loving until the day she was rescued by a Pirate - a notorious Pirate...who has turned her life upside down, who she has an attraction for....some of you guys just don't get the clues...go read the thread ALL CLUES POINT TO JACK AND ELIZABETH...and maybe you will understand....there are so many clues, so many symbolisms.....if you truly look into the depth of the story and read between the lines you will see it....Will's heart will not be broken...I think after seeing the kiss he is a little disillusioned with Liz anyways...and once he finds she scarifies a man's life for others....he will see that she has totally changed...plus why would he want to marry someone who secretly yearns to be with someone else...
Also, yes, Jack is happy by himself....but that's because Jack is a Happy Person...he has accepted who he is...he doesn't need someone to make him complete....IMO....(I know the hat theory), but that doens't mean he can't love and can't live happily ever after with someone...and why can't they live the Pirate Life together...Liz has already proven she can handle it....And whoever said Liz is too fragile...excuse me but are we talking about the same Liz who sword fights, takes on the Kracken, chains a man to a Mast to his certain death.....Okay, whatever......But the again, maybe I'm wrong, maybe all those signs and clues put in POTC 2 was just to take up time.....they don't really mean anything and if that's the case, why did they even make POTC 2 because honestly the whole story of POTC 2 is about Jack Sparrow's debt and his "erotic and perhaps dangerous" attraction to the Adventurous Elizabeth Swann (this is how is was explained on the Johnny Depp website)....So in other words, if all the scenes in POTC 2 with Jack and Liz were just to take up time, then the movie could have been over in 30 minutes....what a waste of time Disney put into this movie if this PITATE Trilogy is not all about Jack Sparrow and his attraction to Elizabeth Swann....and what that does to him

Oh by the way, I am a big fan of romance novels....and this kind of reminds me of one....many, many (in fact 95%) of romance novels start off with a rouge, who sleeps around with tons of women, and then falls in love, and in the end stays devoted to one woman (the heroine of the book). It happens all the time...To me, Jack just became much more appealing in movie 2 when he showed that he can be affected by a WOMAN - now that's what I call sexy.....

sooooo yesterday i was grocery shopping, and i stopped in the book eisle, and they had this supe cheezy version of dead man's chest written for like, 8 year olds. So i paused to read the end, wondering how they would explain the kiss, hahaha.... and it was actually quite poignant...

the way they summed it up for the kiddies went something like,

"the crew decided to try to make it to land. As everyone was loading the boat, Elizabeth stayed behind with Jack. She convinced him to stay aboard the ship, and chained him to the mast, so that the rest of the cew could escape. "Pirate," Jack said, with admiration. "

Thats rather sweet, eh? Liz is the only one who has any real persuasive power over Jack, IMO. its fun.

and it shows us that he IS happy about what she just did!! and NOT angry at her

LOL you are SOOOOOOOOOOOOO right about the whole importance of the Jack/Liz moments...of COURSE they meant something MOST OF THE FILM was about them..the ENDING of the movie revolved around them..so the NEXT one is going to as well!..some people just WISH thy didn't mean anything because they are either angry fan girls of Orlando Bloom or JEALOUS fan girls of Johnny Depp

I still disagree about the whole "Jack being happy" thing..Jack is only a happy person when he has his possesions there to TELL him that he is a happy person...when they are missing he becomes a nervous wreck..on the island..he was at his weakest moment,,he had NOTHING no hat, no shoes, no rum. He became a scared little child...

..he needs a living person there to make him feel TRULY happy and complete IMO..and Liz actually SHOWS HIM that he can be happy without his material possesions...If you said to jack "leave the pearl" in movie 1..he would have become a NERVOUS wreck...this time...HE HAS LIZ and guess what....he decides to leave it to rot...He once loved his material possesions so much because he had NO ONE close to him to love and take care of...in movie 2 he DID have that person and he starts to not CARE about his material possesions he starts to care ABOUT THAT PERSON.

I personally think Jack would be quite heartbroken if he lost Liz to Will...he REALLY needs her to feel truly happy..NO person on this earth can say material possessions make them happier than having true love and friendship..people NEED love and companionship..What makes jack any different?..Without love and care from another person you are nothing. You are a SHELL of a person "Money cant buy you happiness" in other words.. material possessions and prostitutes..aren't going to make Jack happy in the long run..You can already see that hey are not enough for him in movie 1 & 2..

Do you REALLY think that Jack can truly happy if he ends up with absolutely NO one to care for and no one to care for him in return?..he needs true love..Movie 2 made this quite clear actually..

Will isn't going to end up on his own if he loses Liz..he will have his FATHER..Jack would end up with NO ONE if he loses Liz..and that is the cruelest thing that can happen to a person...

Yes I support the theory that Disney wasted a whole bunch of time if this trilogy isnt about Jack and Liz and what will happen between them. We KNOW what will/should/could happen between Will and Liz, they only needed about a half a film to settle that question (and honestly, people were more interesting in the undead pirates)... but with Liz and Jack, it would take a whole trilogy to explore their complex, mysterious, relationship.

I DO think Jack is complete by himself. I think thats important for someone entering any relationship- that they not be looking to complete themselves, but that they are complete by themselves and therefor can give to another person out of that. Elizabeth also strikes me as a non-needy character... while Will, i dont really know who he is without Elizabeth. That bothers me. Perhaps some people see Will's need for Liz as romantic or sweet, but i find it annoying. Give me a guy who knows who he is, and can be that person... ya know?

I love it that Jack IS becoming more and more heroic, as he gets closer and closer to Liz... but the thing we all love about Jack is that he IS a pirate, so i hope he wont lose that completely.

Jack seems happy-go-lucky to me... really go with the flow, a social chameleon, the hero of his own story type thing. People just keep screwing up his well-made and carefully researched plans. hahaha.
And as Jack said, it isnt the possession of the ship that makes him happy- its what the ship represents: freedom.
When the ship is doomed at the end of 2, Jack sees that even though he loves the ship, it no longer represents freedom, or it no longer can provide him with freedom. Can Liz? I dont know...

Originally posted by katelovespirate
Yes I support the theory that Disney wasted a whole bunch of time if this trilogy isnt about Jack and Liz and what will happen between them. We KNOW what will/should/could happen between Will and Liz, they only needed about a half a film to settle that question (and honestly, people were more interesting in the undead pirates)... but with Liz and Jack, it would take a whole trilogy to explore their complex, mysterious, relationship.
agreed



I still disagree... we can see on many occasions that without his possessions he is in fact a shell of a person..he is NOT happy when he is absent of the inanimate objects in his life that he can cuddle up to..Its clear that he NEEDS something more than material possessions to feel eternally happy. Before Liz came into his life..all he cared about was his material possessions because he had no person to love and care for. If you took those away from him he is almost in tears like a little kid who loses his mother..He seems to think that the pearl, the hat, the rum is all he needs in life to feel happy...when its clearly NOT the case..his compass goes crazy even AFTER he has all of this..he's still not complete, his heart is not complete. don't you find it amazing that as soon as Liz comes into his life..he actually starts to let go of his possessions...and embraces HER? He's finally found what his heart truly wants in Liz...and he actually is no LONGER confused at the end once he realises he has her...



I think that Jack is and always will be a pirate..but he's not exactly a TRUE pirate as is anyway becausehe is a good man, he puts people before himself..thats why he is the character we all love..He is doing the same thing with Liz..he is caring for her..being the hero for her YET he is still a pirate..which is what SHE has actually fallen for..



Good point..but its not just freedom that the ship represents...ANY ship can represent that..it actually represents something that he used to think was most important..his Pirate/brave image...but now he doesn't really need to keep using objects to show that to people t because...1) Liz already KNOWS that he is a brave man even WITHOUT his material possessions and 2) he actually DOES show that he is REALLY brave to the people around him in movie 2..especially Liz. Jack is a person who has lived his life as someone who thinks he's happy but is actually pretty incomplete without a real companion by his side...

I'll say it again: No one can truly be happy with material possessions and material possessions alone with no one to actually love or be loved by..I think movie 2 was actually making that point with Jack..Jack is beginning to realise it IMO.

the old saying "money cant by happiness" is famous for a reason...

eh, i dont think jack is that dependent on his possessions. he loses the pearl and seems okay for 10 years. he is concerned about his compass (because its flipping magic) and his pistol in 1 (cause he needs it to shoot barbossa)... but other than that, I still see Jack as go with the flow, that he will pick up whatever is around him and if he loses it, no big deal.

To add onto what I just said on page 3^^^^^^^

By saying Jack is someone who can always be happy with ONLY material possessions and no love is basically saying that he lacks what makes us all human...I very much doubt he lacks that...

I never get romantics....

no i dont think anyone is trying to say jack is just happy with material possessions. everyone wants a someone. i support Jack and Liz and think they are remarkably well suited. but i also think Jack's character is of such a nature that he doesnt need a consistent, stable relationship like some people do.

lol but you said that he was happy before..when I dont think he actually was he had himself convinced that his ship, and all of his possessions make him happy..but he didnt realise what he was missing in life until Liz came along..If he was happy then he wouldn't have been persuing her in a different way to how he usually persues his women..he was very careful around her as if he REALLY didn't want to screw up his chances with her..

exactly !! he is a type of a guy that is good on his own !he is not that worried about material things, but what they represent ( ship=freedom)-fine . So, what I'm saying is , he doesn't worry about things , his way of life is to settle with what he has, to manage, to negotiate. Liz would probably be horriefied to live with Jack , because of his personal hygiene Jack is someone who seeks pleasure in every moment("Tortuga- If every city was like this, no man would EVER feel unwanted " , and that's why he DOESN'T care for things, he only seeks pleasure. Well, ofcourse he is obsessed with treasure like every pirate !

reine mk, I totally agree with you

So here is the question: if the writers decide to have Liz go back to Will, what will become of Jack? Do you think he would let her go, or that he would kind of become a leading man and whisk her away? I love the fact they left everything up in the air and no one can predict POTC3. I have no idea what will happen.

Good theories!

I JUST KEEP ASKING MYSELF: WHEN WE WILL GET AT LEAST A HINT OF WAHT'S GOING TO HAPPEN ??? NO, I ABSOLUTELY CAN'T WAIT TILL MAY, OR EVEN JANUARY I WANNA FIND OUT THIS YEAR !!! DID YOU GUYS KNEW THAT KEIRA ACTUALY ASKED WRITERS TO ADD KISS ? IF SHE DIDN'T HMMM WHAT WOULD THE MOVIE LOOK LIKE I WONDER..... shocking

yes very good theories!

Guess the only way to find out is to ask,... I mean what's the worst that can happen??

Oh I really don't want to find out anything about it until I actually see it. I like watching a movie and not knowing what happens at all. Maybe I should stay away from this forum when it gets closer to May lol.

Oh yeah and about the thing that Will will have his father at the end even if he doesn't have Elizabeth.. but that's not as good He like hardly knew his father anyway (well he did for some of his life but he hasn't seem him for ages and he's totally in love with Elizabeth). It's better to have the one you love (in that way).. well that's probably because I know what it's like losing the one you love *sniff* lol..

Maybe they will all end up together in a three way relationship Only joking obviously lol.. Haha sorry that's so stupid

Originally posted by reine_mk
exactly !! he is a type of a guy that is good on his own !he is not that worried about material things, but what they represent ( ship=freedom)-fine . So, what I'm saying is , he doesn't worry about things , his way of life is to settle with what he has, to manage, to negotiate. Liz would probably be horriefied to live with Jack , because of his personal hygiene Jack is someone who seeks pleasure in every moment("Tortuga- If every city was like this, no man would EVER feel unwanted " , and that's why he DOESN'T care for things, he only seeks pleasure. Well, ofcourse he is obsessed with treasure like every pirate !

No he's not a happy guy on his own..you can see that he's not..when you take away his possessions that HE believes make him what he is he turns into a bumbling idiot..he is actually pretty weak in that respect. Johnny himself SAID that that moment on the beach was THE MOST TELLING moment of Jacks character..It shows you that he is not what he says he is...he is not all that confident..he is obviously lacking some sort of safety net that he knows he can permenantly rely on..

He is kinda kidding himself I think when he says he's happy..someone who repeatedly states that they "are happy with what they have" are usually are NOT..they are trying to CONVINCE themselves that they are... for example LIZ does this when we all obviously know she wants Jack and NOT Will....It's not in human nature to be perfectly happy and satisfied with ONLY material possessions...money cant buy you happiness..LOVE from someone and giving love in return makes a person TRULY happy...The stuff jack CLAIMS to love is only temporary. Inanimate objects and prostitutes DONT love you back..years and YEARS of having only those things is going to create a huge emptyness inside..we can SEE that it has created that emptiess..and it seems as if Johny depp knows this about Jack too. Jack DESERVES love Dont you want to see him be truly happy?

....I think his character is actually evolving into someone who is going to want a female companion to always be there with him someone who loves him for WHO he is and not WHAT he is..and Liz is already showed him that she does..she has seen the weakest part of him and STILL has faith in him..she's still loves him even when she knows he's not the bravest man in the world. That means LOTS to him...no other woman has loved him for being HIM.....YOU can actually SEE that this is already happening in movie 2 with Liz. Jack is NOT the same man we saw in movie 1 when it comes to Elizabeth..Jack has proven to Liz that he deserves her love..he's earned it by coming back to her..and she KNOWS it...thats why she chains him up..she's not ready to accept him yet...Oh well we have the next movie for her to realise that she wants him and for him to realise what Liz truly means to him..

Originally posted by Leggy_n_Merry
Oh I really don't want to find out anything about it until I actually see it. I like watching a movie and not knowing what happens at all. Maybe I should stay away from this forum when it gets closer to May lol.

Oh yeah and about the thing that Will will have his father at the end even if he doesn't have Elizabeth.. but that's not as good He like hardly knew his father anyway (well he did for some of his life but he hasn't seem him for ages and he's totally in love with Elizabeth). It's better to have the one you love (in that way).. well that's probably because I know what it's like losing the one you love *sniff* lol..

Maybe they will all end up together in a three way relationship Only joking obviously lol.. Haha sorry that's so stupid

May?? Whats in May??

Originally posted by Leggy_n_Merry
Oh I really don't want to find out anything about it until I actually see it. I like watching a movie and not knowing what happens at all. Maybe I should stay away from this forum when it gets closer to May lol.

Oh yeah and about the thing that Will will have his father at the end even if he doesn't have Elizabeth.. but that's not as good He like hardly knew his father anyway (well he did for some of his life but he hasn't seem him for ages and he's totally in love with Elizabeth). It's better to have the one you love (in that way).. well that's probably because I know what it's like losing the one you love *sniff* lol..

Maybe they will all end up together in a three way relationship Only joking obviously lol.. Haha sorry that's so stupid


hahahaha that's so funny - three of them ending up together !!!

seriously, i think Jack is perfectly happy without his possessions, AND without a girl. He is inventive, adventurous, and actually pretty easy-going. nothing freaks him out too much. losing his stuff doesnt actually bother him. losing a girl probably would bother him, but he would be okay.
Of course, he wants Liz. We've been through that. she would add a new exciting dimension to his life, and to his personality.

however, i disaggree that she is the only thing that can make him happy. But i am NOT trying to say his STUFF can make him happy, cause it cant. he just strikes me as one of those people that is naturally happy. he's just very cheeky and finds secret delight in who he is.

Originally posted by katelovespirate
seriously, i think Jack is perfectly happy without his possessions, AND without a girl. He is inventive, adventurous, and actually pretty easy-going. nothing freaks him out too much. losing his stuff doesnt actually bother him. losing a girl probably would bother him, but he would be okay.
Of course, he wants Liz. We've been through that. she would add a new exciting dimension to his life, and to his personality.

however, i disaggree that she is the only thing that can make him happy. But i am NOT trying to say his STUFF can make him happy, cause it cant. he just strikes me as one of those people that is naturally happy. he's just very cheeky and finds secret delight in who he is.

i agree

LOL how can you say he is when you can clearly SEE in movie one that he is NOT happy when his possessions are taken away..even Johnny says this..the man who plays captain Jack says this and I quote: "this is the most telling moment for Jacks character"

the whole of movie 2 was about Jack actually realising in Liz that there is more to life than his possessions to make a man happy..so what do we see him do...he lets them go..

I honestly believe that whole Jar of dirt moment was one huge wake up call for Jack..."STOP PUTTING ALL YOUR FAITH INTO MATERIAL POSSESSIONS, THEY CANT KEEP YOU SAFE AND HAPPY FOREVER"

Maybe that was Tia's way of making Jack actually realise this..after all she knows that he wants Liz...and the only way to get liz is to think about whats more important..his possessions or her? which would make sense of the "maybe you do know what you want but you dont know how to claim it for your own" so what does she do..she gives him a little push in the right direction..

eh, i think you have great points as always, but i think i'll stick to my guns on this one, if thats okay.

Yeah i love when Jack gets all upset about the rum... but is that really about possessions? i figure thats more about Jack just wanting to drink the rum.

jack is like everyone, he likes stuff. but i dont think he puts all his faith in it. i reckon he puts all his faith in his cleverness/luck/ ability to get out of scrapes.

okay,......

Originally posted by katelovespirate
seriously, i think Jack is perfectly happy without his possessions, AND without a girl. He is inventive, adventurous, and actually pretty easy-going. nothing freaks him out too much. losing his stuff doesnt actually bother him. losing a girl probably would bother him, but he would be okay.
Of course, he wants Liz. We've been through that. she would add a new exciting dimension to his life, and to his personality.

however, i disaggree that she is the only thing that can make him happy. But i am NOT trying to say his STUFF can make him happy, cause it cant. he just strikes me as one of those people that is naturally happy. he's just very cheeky and finds secret delight in who he is.


yeah, agreed!!

I'm just gonna stop looking at this page,.. I'm so confused.

Originally posted by katelovespirate
eh, i think you have great points as always, but i think i'll stick to my guns on this one, if thats okay.

Yeah i love when Jack gets all upset about the rum... but is that really about possessions? i figure thats more about Jack just wanting to drink the rum.

jack is like everyone, he likes stuff. but i dont think he puts all his faith in it. i reckon he puts all his faith in his cleverness/luck/ ability to get out of scrapes.

LOL its ok..you can stick to em..I'll stick to mine.

In the commentary Johnny and the director said something like: "this is the best moment..its where we see Jack sparrow completely laid bare for who he really is, he has no hat..no boat" which means he is basically a nervous wreck without all of his closets possessions..they said this is the moment in the movie where we see the character at his LOWEST or something along those lines..he has NOTHING to cling onto to feel safe..except the rum.....for now and when that goes...OH MY GOD thats the end of it for him.... he turns into a complete bumbling and scared idiot..he is barley able to even get his words out properly

His actions in that scene are'nt just about not being able to drink the rum..its about not being able to escape reality through the means of something else...which is the bottom of a bottle..or in other cases with a prostitute or, by being on a boat or by wearing a hat...these things never keep you completely satisfied..they only work for a while..then you have to face reality again when they are gone...which is why Jack is so distraught when his saftey nets are gone..It means he HAS to face reality whether he likes it or not... and he REALLY doesn't want to face it..its clear...He seems to be terrified of it...he almost shoots her over it..if it was simply about not being able to drink rum then he wouldn't even consider pulling his gun out there..who would?

yah know, i think Jack goes to singapore for the food. i just had asian takeout, and man, it was good.

this is totally random, but i was thinking about Jack ripping off liz's corset in 1 so she could breath (which is totally hott by the way, that Jack is symbolically the one who frees her from her suffocating victorian lifestyle) and he mentions he learned how to do it in singapore... i think not so much from the corsets, but the crazy layers asian people wore then!!!! Im picturing that one scene from memiors of a geisha where the dude is ripping off her kimono and it takes him like 35 minutes to get through all the layers... hahahaha

"It means he HAS to face reality whether he likes it or not... and he REALLY doesn't want to face it..its clear...He seems to be terrified of it...he almost shoots her over it..if it was simply about not being able to drink rum then he wouldn't even consider pulling his gun out there..who would?"-------LovelyOne


Yes, he does almost shoot her, and it's strangely hilarious. It was all he had left and she destroyed it. But I agree with Kate, that Jack does not necessarily "need" Liz. I think he is capable of finding happiness without taking on a lover. He seems to enjoy his life very much and only looks at the loneliness as a price to pay for it.

But I think the closeness he feels with her is playing with him. I don't think he's completely decided what he's going to do about her. That's pretty evident in how he reacts to her staying behind on the Pearl. He just stands there, not avoiding her, but not taking charge either. He lets her make the decision and then just goes with it, enjoying it of course, but letting her be the one to have made the choice.
While I would love for him to love her, and imho, her choice was the moment he realized he did love her, I can also him looking at is as just a nice moment shared between them and not feeling much if they say goodbye.
I think it's her friendship more than anything, but he is sorting out his feelings. We've pretty much all agreed he has them, but there's no telling what he's going to do about them.

Yes...It's only the middle of the story at the moment..we will see what happens later on in the next..It just seems as if jack has already made a huge step in development since movie 1..and it's all since Liz came into his life..people are saying they don't want him to change..he already HAS changed in movie 2 and it's because of Liz IMO and people don't even notice or care lol. they STILL love Jack sparrow for what he is and what he is becoming...

I think the audience wont really mind if his character makes another huge step in development with the next movie..he already has since movie 1 and it's only had positive reviews from critics and people viewing movie 2..So I think it's quite possible that he will accept love with Liz..

characters HAVE to develop if you WANT the story to be good...if they stayed the same as when we are first introduced to them then that is BAD script writing...what kind of GOOD character that you know of stays EXACTLY the same throughout an entire trilogy or series of books? NO GOOD character EVER does ..come on people be realistic

Originally posted by willofthewisp
"It means he HAS to face reality whether he likes it or not... and he REALLY doesn't want to face it..its clear...He seems to be terrified of it...he almost shoots her over it..if it was simply about not being able to drink rum then he wouldn't even consider pulling his gun out there..who would?"-------LovelyOne


Yes, he does almost shoot her, and it's strangely hilarious. It was all he had left and she destroyed it. But I agree with Kate, that Jack does not necessarily "need" Liz. I think he is capable of finding happiness without taking on a lover. He seems to enjoy his life very much and only looks at the loneliness as a price to pay for it.

But I think the closeness he feels with her is playing with him. I don't think he's completely decided what he's going to do about her. That's pretty evident in how he reacts to her staying behind on the Pearl. He just stands there, not avoiding her, but not taking charge either. He lets her make the decision and then just goes with it, enjoying it of course, but letting her be the one to have made the choice.
While I would love for him to love her, and imho, her choice was the moment he realized he did love her, I can also him looking at is as just a nice moment shared between them and not feeling much if they say goodbye.
I think it's her friendship more than anything, but he is sorting out his feelings. We've pretty much all agreed he has them, but there's no telling what he's going to do about them.

OK then..so he doesn't "need" Liz to be happy ..I very much doubt that he can fall back on his inanimate objects again because he is clearly showing no real care for them in this movie...they DONT make him feel safe and happy at all.. So if its not his objects making him smile what DOES make him smile...What is the one thing we see in this movie that shows Jack happy and smiling? ELIZABETH...the whole MOVIE was about him finding something else that makes him feel happy and safe instead of what USED to make him feel happy an safe in his life..characters HAVE to develop man...they NEED to move on to stay interesting..you cant keep them loving the same things forever their priorities NEED to change otherwise its bad script writing on the writers behalf...and Jacks priorities ARE changing.....In Jacks case..at the moment he's showing us that is IS Liz who he needs with him to feel secure and happy and not his material objects..its right on screen to see..to deny it is to deny what you see on screen...He's looking SLAP BANG at Liz when he's deciding to LEAVE the pearl..or perhaps even deciding go down fighting on it FOR HER..whilst she escapes..his priorities are CHANGING even if people like it or not..

so i just had my first taste of rum, and it wasnt very good. can you imagine drinking it warm on a ship? ewe.

but no wonder they all have scratchy throats... thats hott.

Originally posted by katelovespirate
so i just had my first taste of rum, and it wasnt very good. can you imagine drinking it warm on a ship? ewe.

but no wonder they all have scratchy throats... thats hott.

LOL i had some white rum yesterday....was rank

and to continue my point:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PtDYT2XfRLE

they cut to that establishing shot for a reason. Everyone else is looking at Will...but look at who's not . Jack is staring right at Liz whilst deciding whats more important to him...what ULTIMATLEY makes him happiest? His pearl..his "carefree" way of life?..or her?

anyhoo I'm off to beddy byes xxx

thats beautiful. i LOVE it when Jack just stares at Liz. And Liz just stares at Jack, and they have this secret understanding

Is she looking at him in that long shot? It seems as if she's trying not to

Ooh, it's hard to explain what I think. Obviously I didn't do a good job... I think Jack has fallen in love with Liz, and I think he realized it when she tied him to the mast. I think it was then he realized she makes him happy in a way no one else or nothing else can.
But here is what I am saying: if that had not happened, had their relationship never graduated past friendship and harmless flirting, I think she still would have made him happy. He doesn't have to fall in love with her to be happy, her friendship, her ability to see things in him others won't, is enough for him to be happy. I was just making the arguement you don't have to be married or be in love to have had a truly content, satisfying life.
Of course, all this changes when you do find love and you may be happy with just the friendship, but you feel you need more. This is where I think Jack is.

Okay there is alot of stuff being said since I last posted...LovelyOne I agree somewhat with the material possession things....but I do think what makes Jack Sparrow so sexy and so appealing is that he accepts who he is and likes who he is...but yet at the same time - out of the blue- he finds himself attracted to this young girl - who seems so much wiser than her years, he can't help flirting with her...can he live without her, maybe...but I imagine that he will fight for her in POTC 3 - maybe Will will turn bad...who knows...all I know is that Jack and Liz must be together just as Scarlett and Rhett had to be together in Gone With the Wind (who by the way according to the story, Rhett was about 20 or so years older than Scarlett, maybe even 30).....

Will get the girl!!!! yay!!!

I think that had Jack not met her again in Tortuga he would have remained an incredibly confused and possibly even lonely perspm..

before he even met her in Tortuga his heart was telling him that he was confused and unhappy..this was before DAVY even intervened...when he went to see Tia she even knew the REAL reason why he was confused..it was because of Liz..she knew it was pointing to Liz...he had probably had enough of his life the way it was... he had his hat, his ship, his rum (his women) he was CAPTAIN and he STILL wasn't satisfied..thats why his compass went all funny on him..His heart was not happy he was looking for something MORE in life..and the answer was Liz when he found her...material possesions, prostitutes, booze just AINT satisying him any more...

I honestly don't remember Jack genuinely smiling and showing TRUE happiness with any other person except Liz in this movie..Every close scene they have together SHE is the one who makes him laugh, smile and BE HAPPY in a time of danger, confusion and loneliness in his life...SHE is what makes him happy..no one else in the film REALLY does..His hat, his rum, his ship, his crew ALL fail to make him happy...LIZ makes him smile again.....she is the answer to his problem...When he shows distrust to everyone else in the movie..he shows complete faith in Liz..he is at complete ease with her..he jokes, flirts, smiles and laughs with her...he was not happy with anything in this movie until SHE entered back into his life...

In movie 1 lovethemtigers do you REALLY think he is truly happy with himself and who he is? Or is it all just a front?

I mean he puts so much effort into building up this brave, happy pirate image of himself and then all you have to do is take away from him what resembles that image best and he fels insecure and incomplete..Then w and becomes a scared, lost and confused little child...and he can barley even get his words out properly to form a sentence, he's become TOO RELIANT on these things to make him feel happy and safe...Just like a person does with drugs and booze..

It's like snatching a child's security blanket away from them when they are already incredibly fragile...you can see it in the beach scene..Liz snatches the last safety net away from him and he goes into a tantrum like a little kid..he is AFRAID without all of his things that he clings to...which means he is not REALLY happy and secure as a person without all of his possessions there to cuddle up to.

you take them away from him in the next one..by this time his heart is telling him he wants Liz..and he's NOT REALLY all that concerned with losing his security blanket..is he? Jack is maturing as a character...

I didn't say he was HAPPY - i think he has accepted who he is and is happy with that until he meets up with Liz....isn't it weired how so many lives are tunred upside down from that moment on...there was Will making swords, practicing three hours a day, there was Norrington becoming a Commodore and asking Elizabeth to be his bride, there was Elizabeth living her boring life in Port Royal...if Jack had never "Sailed" into Port Royal that day...and saved Elizabeth's Life (was he ever properly thanked for that - NO - they were planning to hang him anyway...),,,,she was either drowned....or settled for marrying Commodore Norrington because Poor Will wouldn've never got the guts to stand up and pronounce his love for Liz - and who does Will have to thank for that - JACK...JACK is at the center of everything....Then in POTC 2, Will and Liz are to be married and why is there wedding interupted (or has fate intervened?) because of JACK.....

whether or not Jack is a happy man or not...I just think he is happy go-lucky in One - but I think in Two he is running scared in the beginning....He obviously doesn't know what he wants anymore or does but is unable to claim it for his own..cough, Elizabeth, cough.....Jack has, or so he has thought, always wanted the Black Pearl/Freedom...now we are not so sure anymore...Jack is scared of the Kracken the entire movie, yet after that HOT Kiss from Liz - he is able to face the Kracken like a man..I LOVE IT...oh, and for those of you who don't think that kiss was anything but a trick to lock Jack up - then you need to watch it again and again - cuz if that is true - why is there really hot moment where she is so tempted to move in for a second kiss and Jack closes his eyes in anticipation but she decides to hold off - nose to nose, mouth to mouth - OMG that is an awesome shot.....gotta go

Jacks character cant just suddenly be unhappy with his life in movie 2..that doesn't make sense. It would be bad script writing...people don't just suddenly realise that their life isn't satisfying..it had to have been an issue (suppressed or surfaced) before hand in movie 1..and you can actually see that it is a slight issue in movie 1..he portrays this confident image but in reality he is actually not all that confident in himself. He hides behind his many objects that "prove" he is a great and happy pirate.

It wouldn't make sense to us that Liz is falling for Jack if we didn't already know from movie 1 that she had an obsession with pirates.

It wouldn't make sense to us that Will suddenly becomes engrossed with rescuing his father had we not seen how much he meant to him in movie 1.

So in turn it wouldn't make sense to us that Jack is only just to realise his life isn't satisfying to him the way it is.. had we not been shown that he really ISN'T all that confident and happy before hand..in movie 1.

...just how it works

The writers cant just throw something into movie 2 for example, "Jack wants more in life, he's not satisfied" with no prior knowledge that he has always had these feelings. If a character develops in a story it HAS to be backed up by history from movie 1..you cant just make people suddenly feel something with no background evidence to support these feelings..

So jack's character must have ALWAYS shown aspects of not being happy the way his life was in movie 1. He may have appeared cheerful and satisfied with a happy go lucky lifestyle but I doubt he really was..otherwise his feelings evolving for Liz in movie 2 cant be justified...It would be a huge mistake for the writers to add in this whole aspect of Jack's development without any background evidence of his character to explain WHY...

It happens with all the other characters and their feelings..so it has to happen With jack too he is no different..It's actually more important that his feelings in movie 2 are backed up by what happened in move 1 because he is the most important character to the franchise..

Hey on ohjohnny.net they saw the preview and Will pushes Liz's hands away from him. I think Jack and Liz are going to end up.

maybe he is just angry because of the kiss !

exactly..which means he's starting to feel like he is losing Liz to a life of piracy..which is basically what happened to Davy Jones and his fiance..

Might be thinking "you ain't the Liz i fell in love with don't TOUCH ME!"

what happened to Davy Jones and fiance ?? Didn't really get the Tia dalma's explanation

Davy fell in love with a woman who wasn't right for him..she was actually the sea goddess calypso and Davy just couldn't live up to what she wanted in life, she was too untamable for him... so she left him at the alter. Davy became so heartbroken that he cut his heart out...It's exactly what is happening with Will and Liz so far in the story...

NOOOOO! WILL!!!!!!

heheh CALM DOWN, WE DON'T KNOW ANYTING FOR SURE YET !!!

I don't want will to turn to a davy,.. ya only need one!

lol. too true

Have you played the gave on the offical POTC website??

nah he wont...If he does I'm sure is dad would stop him..Bill saves Will 3 times in movie 2 from a worse fate..those scenes seem pretty pointless in movie 2 but if the same kind of interaction is repeated in moviie 3 where Will's dad saves wWill from a horrible future... then those scenes make perfect sense to be in movie 2

ok,..

Originally posted by diddly-dum
Have you played the gave on the offical POTC website??

i have!!!

You like the end??

ive played it like 3762978461 times!
yeah i guess. why?

wow,.. Ilike the part where you gotta find outthe notes on Davy's organ!

its easy.

It took me twice!

really?! i got it on the first try.

dance

Will will make a will?

you two better watch out..dont want my buds to get banned for spamming...

On topic again..Will aint gonna get her IMO..he wants his dadda too much..

whats IMO????

^ diddo

Ah! I check ohjohnny.net all time..where do you peopel find this stuff!! *runs over to ohjohnny.net*

keiraweb.com and ohjohnny.net

???????????

people !!! get back to topic NOW !!! SO AS I SAID -WE DON'T NO ANYTHING FOR SURE YET!!

Don't yell, I got a head ache!

^ diddo!

i missread too much...

?????????????????

i thought they said on ohjohnny.net there was a picture of will throwing liz's arms off....but they didnt...they said preview...

oh.

Originally posted by diddly-dum
Don't yell, I got a head ache!


hahaha I'm not yelling! that's just my way of making the point,sorry.

It was a preview of the trailer for movie 3 wasn't it?

Originally posted by diddly-dum
Don't yell, I got a head ache!
umm even if she did yell you woudnt hear it.WE ARE TYPING

Originally posted by reine_mk
hahaha I'm not yelling! that's just my way of making the point,sorry.
sorry...

Originally posted by Lyna303
Will get the girl!!!! yay!!!

Lyna303...I have a feeling that Will wont get her...if he does I dont think he will be happy with her..She's changed A LOT since he fell in love with her...She's not the same Liz he knew..She's gone in a direction that he will probably refuse to follow...which is piracy..

How many minutes of the movie were about the developing relationship between Jack and Liz? If they don't get together, there are only a few reasons why they would put that stuff in.

1. They felt they had a thin story and just created a subplot without thinking (the Star Wars prequels did this, so it is possible)
2. To tease us and lead us down one direction when in reality they are going down another one (movies have big twists all the time, so it is possible)
3. To just show us how piraty Liz has become and foreshadows her leaving Will forever in favor a life at sea (but she wouldn't need the chemistry with Jack to do that. We always knew she wasn't your avg. damsel in distress)

Originally posted by LovelyOne
Lyna303...I have a feeling that Will wont get her...if he does I dont think he will be happy with her..She's changed A LOT since he fell in love with her...She's not the same Liz he knew..She's gone in a direction that he will probably refuse to follow...which is piracy..
i don't know...for some reason i think they were meant for eachother, and somehow will work it out...or will might change...*shrugs

Interesting what will happen first-People here get pissed of waiting for the third movie and stop making theories about Will/Jack/Liz or There gonna countine making them until the movie comes out?''Thinking''

Originally posted by Lyna303
i don't know...for some reason i think they were meant for eachother, and somehow will work it out...or will might change...*shrugs
i agree with you,.. In the first movie,.. you saw that he had the medallion,... then later Jack says Will is a pirtae,.. So technicly Will is a pirate and what Liz wants,....

Originally posted by diddly-dum
i agree with you,.. In the first movie,.. you saw that he had the medallion,... then later Jack says Will is a pirtae,.. So technicly Will is a pirate and what Liz wants,....

no. if he was a pirate then he would be doing pirate stuff...you know like looking for treasure and stuff liek that..and he doenst. and what Liz wants is Jack who is a TRUE pirate

Yes Will isnt a Pirate in heart

^yupp

I can't make up my mind. I want to be Jack/Liz but I'm still not sure it will happen. Plenty of evidence...I'll make up my mind when more info comes out and I see the trailer

ya.