Clones to Storm Troopers

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Julie
I guess this discussion could also be held in EU section, but.... I was wondering when will the "Storm Troopers" emerge. Will the soldiers of EpIII be Clone Troopers or Storm Troopers....when do the good guys of EpII become the infamously lousy shot lovable bad guys of classic star wars?

Captain REX
WPII = World Poop 2? stick out tongue

Maybe it will be EU, maybe it will be in the movie, only people working on the film actually know.

Julie
Nobody saw that embarrasment

I see. In EU I believe the storm troopers are partially conscripted soldiers from the various conquered worlds....

queeq
It seems to be that way in the OT as well though. Maybe the outcome of the Clone Wars is not only that Palpy rules, but also that the cloning stops. After all, I think he may want to control people and not just the clones he makes himself.
It's just that little convo in ANH between the two Stormtroopers when OB1 is shutting down the tractor beam that seriously makes me doubt these are programmed clones. Those are real people with personal interests other than fighting.

Ushgarak
I do believe GL has mentioned in a quote that the Stormtroopers are clones, which surprised the heck out of me.

finti
me too, and if they were clones why dont produce enough Stormtroopers too stomp all rebellion

Ushgarak
Yeah, makes bog all sense to me.

Dexx
we'll see in ep. 3

yerssot
because you see the emperors best troops are being slaughtered by teddybears?

Dexx
no, by TWON-HAs

Corran
I think we have covered this before, the Clone troopers are expensive or Kamino get closed down so the Emperor has to revert to using cheaper and more expendible beings, hence the transfer from Clone to storm.

finti
Yeah they must be conscripts, and the officers dont look a like at all

queeq
Indeed. And neither do the Star Destroyer Commanders (the guys with the big hats).

But it doesn't make sense at all why they all of a sudden lose all sense of aim though. Especially after the massive destructive power they showed in AOTC.

finti
well the droids of the droid army didnt "bob and move" look for a cover now did they. Its easy to hit a straight forward moving target

queeq
They also fought Geonosians.

finti
didnt see too many casulties among the Genosians, at least not by the hands of the clone troopers

yerssot
clone tiredness?

queeq
Whoc ould see anything though that mess.

finti
mainly cause all the destruction you saw was mainly droids and their equipment. I saw the droid army, had a hard time to see the Genosians

ko_kidd_2k1
IMO I have no specific idea what will happen to the clone troopers.

This MIGHT be a spolier , but MAYBE, just maybe Anakin gets cloned and Palpatine tries to make more dark jedi with Anakin's DNA; he is the chosen one, and they do have a cloning place.

Maybe he tries to clone Anakin and it doesn't work out as well and he just uses them as storm troopers.
(Oh yeah, the masks of the storm troopers is like vader, and obviously the clone troopers masks are like Jango Fett)

It could be a combo of Jango's clones and Anakin's clones, if I'm correct, although I doubt the latter, would be freakin weak though. (Clones of Anakin, if there were any would be dead or killed in Ep III)

Anyway, the storm troopers are conscripted--they have an academy where ppl can sign up, from the OT.

But they could still be a combo of clones and conscripted ppl, although I don't think Palpatine cares about cloning ppl when he can just use people to do his bidding.

yerssot
you know cloning someone to get an equally powerfull jedi is rubbish?

mah
that theory has nothing at all in it.

finti
besides annoying colors

Captain REX
Clonetrooper helmets' visors have the technology to see through battle debres, smoke, and dust.

finti
ehh I think queeq was aiming at me ther Rexus

Ushgarak
See through debris? What are they, x-ray helms or something?

yerssot
actually, with x-rays, would you be able to see the droids??

Ushgarak
Well, 'x-ray' is a colloquialism.

yerssot
I know, just wondering

ko_kidd_2k1
OK, fine, don't believe a word I say...

yeah I know some bastard is going to copy this and say, WOW I can copy and paste and say stuff about him, OOOO.


Anyway, that is slightly an EU idea, BUT, we did hear about Midichlorians and some people theorize that they're like Mitochondria (you'd have to read the arguement to understand) but the more you have the more higher the Force power you can have, unless you don't train or something.

All I'm saying is that he might try to clone him, why not? Anakin is the CHOSEN ONE, why wouldn't he want more of that for the Dark Side?

But you can disregard the idea of him being clone/storm troopers, but still the storm troopers are AT LEAST partially conscripted.

Ushgarak
All you would have is a being based on Anakin;s genetic template. He would have no in-built force talent by default, as far as we know. MCs are a symptom of force talent, not the cause. The better you are with the Force, the more MCs you have, not the other way around.

finti
he wont clone Anakin

Julie
I agree....too much cloning going on as it is wink

Captain REX
If the stormtroopers are clones, how come there is so few stormtroopers used in battle in OT. I mean, if the stormtroopers are clones, how come Palpy doesn't send out a mass of them?

Dexx
He's sorry for the loss of life? Besides, they're stupid laughing

LaurenE147
They bump into things and their aim sucks like a mug. And a mug sucks a lot.

Dexx
they bump into things?

Julie
I believe she's refering to the fact that several stormtroopers seem to be overencumbered with their armor....and have a tendancy to run into walls.

Dexx
i'm sure the armor's weight is neglijable

Julie
roll eyes (sarcastic) sure it is....that's why tiny ewoks can route an entire legion of the Palpy's best

Dexx
hey, that is a big bug. That's why i don't like the OT very much. The ewoks kill the storm troopers with arrows. i mean c'mon....arrows???

Captain REX
The stormtrooper armor is weak and has a lot of open spots (the black). The clonetrooper armor is clunkier than theirs, but thicker and gives more protection.

Ushgarak
The Ewok thing DOES defy credibility, the same as the rebel fleet not being destroyed by all those superior numbers up in space. The ROTJ finale is lacking in that respect.

Anyway, I doubt there is much encumberance from that armour. SImple fact is that the stormtroopers never appear to be good shots on film.

Unlike TIE Fighter pilots which seem damn dangerous in ANH. Then in ROTJ, you can shoot down three hundred of them with no effort. Pah!

Dexx
Well....the expectancies from movies have increased with time. In '77 ANH was probably amaising ( i wouldn't know). the same with ROTJ, ureal shots like the ones with the TIE fighters and ewoks migh've been overpassed then in faivour to other things like CGIs and action line. Now, in modern times we look upon them and see the "mistakes" but still like them from another point of view: They're classics.

Ushgarak
No, I assure you, the Endor thing was ridiculed at the time as well...

Dexx
well...ok, than

Julie
So it defies logic...oh well. I don't know why but I think RotJ is still my fav from the old trilogy. If the storm troopers were better shots...the good guys would die..and where'd the fun be in that?

Dexx
everywhere... evil face

finti
well the stormtroopers seems to have the outfit more as an uniform than an armor

Dexx
or both...

Julie
I'd say both too.....the white is quite appealing...though I bet that if they had made the unifi=orms out of cloth it would stain too easily....

ko_kidd_2k1
Somewhat a theory, but more speculation...what if Palpatine just...I don't know--killed the Kaminoans, destroyed the planet, etc.

My previous post was just pointing out to the MC thing, maybe Lucas put it in the first episode for a reason? How could he simply say one line and just leave it be. Like no one is going to try and clone Jedi for evil purposes...that's like saying anakin got a little boo-boo when he had his arm sliced off.

Anyway, he doesn't care about casualties, that's why they wear light armor and why their ships don't have shields (and why the pilots have a flimsy flight suit). It's a huge galaxy too, so they MIGHT just have more storm troopers than we usually see in one scene... wink

You can't tell me he's (the emperor) going to send a million troopers just to find some droids on Tatooine, stuff takes time, traveling all over the galaxy isn't instantaneous, even in SW.

Plus I still remember them talking about an Academy.

P.S. About the flight suit thing, I mean it's just a little padding, less than the Rebels, and they have to use a breathing mask since the ship doesn't create it's own life support.

But, if you say that the breathing suit is the same thing, ah well, I think a self-contained cockpit and one you have to use a breathing mask in are two seperate things.

And one more thing, the stuff cost money (who knows what kind) in SW and I know they control the galaxy and all, but the Empire still had senators and stuff to worry about for a long time, and they obviously made a lot of ships.

yerssot
the MC was to show that Anakin was special and that he was the Chosen One

Julie
Yeah, if there wasn't something special about him, he never would have gotten off of Tatooine

yerssot
he was special already, they just needed something measurable, so the importance could be shown

Julie
oh.....they needed proof wink

yerssot
the audience

Julie
true true.....and audiences are hard to please that for sure.....BTW which uniform...or I should say helmet... a stormtrooper's or a clonetrooper's

yerssot
how do you mean?

Julie
Stormtroopers have the classic white helmets...you know the ones that we see in the old films....the clones have thinner helmets as seen in AOTC....I'm asking which is the preferable style...i think the clone's helmets are nicer looking

Ronch_Jedi
I think the stromtrooper's helment is cooler than the clone's, by the way we've never sean stromtroopers take off their helments off so we won't know until Ep3

Ushgarak
We've heard them speak with different voices though...

yerssot
a clone isn't exactly 100% the same in every aspect I think

Fire
well depends yerss, I don't know anything about cloning so this has no scientific fact, but I think if u clone someone u take over all the physical aspects so I believe voices should be identical unless something altered the physical aspects

(also lemme bring in my that I knowvery lil' of biology (ask yerss big grin))
so if voice has anything to do with mental aspects then I think they could have a different voice cause I think if u clone a person they have a different mind

yerssot
but aren't the clones in ANH COAC?

and please FM, do pass bio next time big grin

Ushgarak
The clones in AOTC are clearly shown as actually being identical. They would sound the same.

Yet we do have that GL quote. Hmm...

Julie
what GL quote???? and what if one clone was just having a throat problem that day wink ....then he would sound different

Ushgarak
As I think I mentioned before, there is a GL quote that seems to confirm that stormtroopers are clones.

Julie
oh...but they can't all be.....that would shatter my EU dreams big grin

yerssot
like said, it can be that the clones in ANH are COAC!

Julie
What is COAC???? confused

Ushgarak
Clone of a Clone, but that's just yerssot rambling, really.

Julie
oh there's a big surprise roll eyes (sarcastic)

yerssot
no! a clone of a clone is not the same as a clone of the original!
the error percentage in a coac is bigger then one in a clone of an original

so the voices can differ if you put both clones next to eachother

Julie
uh-huh....for some odd reason that makes sense....but I still think that they eventually turned to humans to fuel the imperial Navy

Ushgarak
See? He's just rambling.

Please stop, yerss. There is never ANY need to overcomplicate. Trying to bring real-world science into this to solve this problem is futile.

Ushgarak
It doesn't make sense. It is nonsense. We have absolutely no reason to think they would clone clones, and in any case the difference in voices, judging by the perfection of the originals (which makes any attempt to use real-world science in this case as laughable as with anything else in Star Wars) would be minute regardless if the Stormtroop[ers can be considered true clones in any way.

And in any case the clear intimation of the GL quote is that they are cloned just as the Clonetroopers are.

yerssot
you can't say that there is an error in the explanation!
and I don't mean a spelling error

Julie
but there is an error...that's Ush's point...errr I think

Ushgarak
I certainly can; you are trying to use real-life science to justify a piece of sci-fi and your implementation is thoroughly flawed.

yerssot
it's just a theory, HELLO! it's not canon roll eyes (sarcastic)

Ushgarak
Like I say, it's needless over-complication. Or to use the laymen's term, wild speculation...

Which brings me back to what I said in the first place, it was just rambling! It doesn't really help much in getting to the gist of it.

yerssot
yes, I'm insane, I'm useless, never belief me because I'm ALWAYS wrong, heck, just block me in your preferences so that way you won't be bothered with reading my stupid replies!

Ushgarak
Talk a lot, don't you?

We don't even have as canon the idea that they need Jango to 'refresh' the template.

yerssot
put a sock in it

Ushgarak
If you haven't got anything useful to say, yerss, don't bother posting.

yerssot
DELETED- As warned.

Ushgarak
Take this to PM if you insist, yerss, but don't use the thread for it.

Anyone have anything constructive to add, please?

finti
GL hinted that Stormtroopers are cloned?

Ushgarak
Yeah, while talking about the Boba Fett back story (and how he finally expanded it and put it into AOTC) he had he mentioned it.

Fire
Julie her idea about a throath problem would explain different voices,
clones are still 'humans' so they can still suffer from diseases and such I think

Dexx
or maybe they got kicked in the neck too many times.
It still seems incredible to me discussing such smal and future to be salved details.

Ushgarak
Yes, it's really not worth over-complicating to try and explain what is, after all, either something perfectly innocuous or, at worst, a small defect.

Really, it's just part of why we thought the stormtroopers WEREN'T Clones beforehand.

Fire
agreed

yerssot
yup, months ago like said

"I had created a background story for nearly every character, and of course Boba was one of them. I wrote an entire story about him being the "father" of the stormtroopers who got cloned on a distant planet"

finti
hmm that may change though

yerssot
if it involves his "backgroundstory book" I very much doubt it

Julie
confused I'm lost.....what does he doubt?

Dexx
it's a curse GL has drawn upon him....all the eyes analising his work

Ushgarak
Yes, it was stuff he said very recently, Finti. Point is he was now applying it to Jango rather than Boba, but the basis of the Fetts being the origin of the stormtroopers stays the same.

Julie, yerss was doubting that GL would change his mind.

yerssot
reality, mostly... life, family, that sort things, why?

Julie
ohh thanks for clearing that up ush.....as for you Yerssot..... roll eyes (sarcastic)

yerssot
helpful as always smile

Julie
ever consider a career as a storm trooper?

yerssot
well, the "all in all you're another brick in the wall" part is really me, but ... no... white doesn't suit me

Julie
Hmm I've never seen a picture of you....at least I don't think I've ever seen you.....so i really couldn't tell buit white is quite a dashing color....you might look good

yerssot
I'm more a black one

Ushgarak
So... anyone actually got any more thoughts on the Clone to Storm thing?

finti
yeah, I really hope they aint clones, and thinking of Leias words to Luke.
"aint you a bit short for a stormtroopers"
To me that is that there exist a height requirement to be a Stormtrooper, both for those who wants to enlist and to those shanghaied into it.

yerssot
it could also mean that they are all clones and that luke is just too small to be a clone...

I'm not even sure if we'll see them transforming into stormtroopers in EpIII...

finti
you can look at it that away too, but what about the officers of the empire then

yerssot
you want clones to have a big role wink

well, Boba came in the picture in ESB, so I think that backgroundstory, GL is so keen of, didn't exist in ANH-time, like "the stormtroopers are all clones from one bountyhunter which isn't around in ANH"...

finti
the clonetroopers were clones from Fett, there are around 20 years between epIII and ANH so things might change with the cloning thing

yerssot
in which way?

Ushgarak
Fett did exist a fair bit before ESB, though, so the concept of the bounty hunter 'father' of the stormtroopers may well have been one of GL's original ideas from the start.

Dexx
the troopers don't seem docile like the clones.....who knows what changes occur in 20 years.

Julie
an awful lot can happen in 20 years.....
and Leia's comment in ANH might only been an insult and not an actualy observation

finti
it sounded more like a question than an insult, to me that is

yerssot
yes, that's the thing, that's why I think the trooper=clone thingie was set after ANH and that with that phrase they made the link

finti
huh??

yerssot
that with that line in ANH GL came up with that idea

mah
3 'that''s in one sentence!

yerssot
I CAN try to get more that's in it

finti
hmmm

queeq
Someone teach this guy English. Or better yet, chase him away. big grin

yerssot
teachers give up on me big grin

Corran
quel surprise.

Ushgarak
Anything else subject related?

yerssot
quelle, not quel

Corran
Thanks teach.

Julie
yea I still think clones are cuter than stormtroopers wink big grin

Corran
Please explain, what makes clones cuter than stormtroopers?

yerssot
their masks wink

well, you tried your best corran stick out tongue

Julie
Actually, yerssot's right...the clone mask is a lot nicer than the stormtrooper's...it's a lot cuter consequently, clones themselves are cuter than the clunky storm troopers.

finti
The Stormtrooper mask is more intimidating

Corran
I wonder whether Princess Leia ever stopped to consider how cute the stormtroopers were?

finti
enough from you Corran roll eyes (sarcastic)

yerssot
*playes Imperial theme*

Corran
Well it had to happen sometime.

Fire
idd

yerssot
*best Vader voice*
this will be a day long remembered, it has seen the right of yerssot and will soon see the end of this thread

Julie
I'm not sure Yerssot could fit his big head in a stormy's helmet stick out tongue

yerssot
too much brains for it

Ushgarak
Okidokey, I think we are done...

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