Raiden vs Naked Snake/Big Boss

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kamikz
Ok so Raiden with all his equipment in MGS 2, vs Big Boss with all his equipment in MGS 3. Who prevails?

(State reason please)

Superboy Prime
I think Raiden will come out victorious because of his superior equipment.

kamikz
I kinda agree with you..

kamikz
Ok, Raiden can only use his HF blade and his M4, Naked Snake has all of his equipment. Now who wins?

Superboy Prime
Naken Snake destroys the White Devil.

kamikz
Wanna state why?

Superboy Prime
Sniper Rifle. Raiden only has the M4 and the HF Blade. Sure Raiden's skills with the blade are outstanding, but I doubt even he will be able to see a shot coming from a couple of miles away. To top it all Snake will have the Rocket, a couple of rifles himself, a tranquilizer gun among others.

kamikz
Your forgetting something.... I never stated where they are fighting, and I can tell you they are not gonna start miles away. They start 30 meters away from eachother and they are where Raiden fought those Metal Gear Gekkos in MGS 4.

Superboy Prime
Now that's one badass killing arena. I'll ponder on the outcome of the match.

kamikz
Ok... I don't know, I belive it will be an even match, mostly because Naked Snake's best abilities lies in his range skills, which would mostly be neutralized when fighting a blade wealding Raiden, unless he can outmatch him with accuracy....
He is good at melee, but Raiden with a sword is definently better....

Superboy Prime
I think it will go 5/10 for either of them.

Raiden will have an advantage over close quarters combat, but I believe BB's CQC training must have an option to take on a katana wielding opponent. He could find a way to disarm Raiden and take matters hand to hand where BB's CQC could secure him a victory. But that's only if BB manages to disarm Raiden, and I doubt it will be that easy.

Raiden is a beast wheather people want to accept it or not.

kamikz
BB taking Raiden down in a melee fight when Raiden wields a HF blade is next to none. Big Boss couldn't even take down Ocelot who just had "picked up a FEW new moves", I doubt he'll be able to take someone down who can deflect bullets with the sword. And on a battlefield, a sword is not oftenly used anymore, so I don't know how trained he would be on unarmed vs sword fighting.....


But his marksmanship is incredible, and Raiden can't deflect shotgun shots (VR mission, you can't parry those). If he can get a good shotgun shot he will win, elsewhere I don't think so. His rocket launcher will be useless. When Solidus fired rockets Raiden either dodged or he cut them apart, making the explosion non-lethal....

Superboy Prime
Ocelot picked up some of BB's own moves though as far as I remember, and that was only after Jack already handed him and his Ocelot squad their asses. True swords are not part of modern day combat; but neither are hornets; Electriy powered suits; hallucinations(the sorrow) etc. etc.

Here's a scenario that comes to mind:

BB and Raiden stand 30 meters when the battle starts. BB and Raiden both search for cover and begin firing at each other with their assault rifles. Perfectly covered both killing machines realize they must change tactics. Big Boss stops firing and grabs hold of a frag grenade, and throws it at Raiden's cover. The White Devil summersaults and rolls out of harms way. However the explossion is still strong enough to knock him off balance. While all of this is happening Big Boss is taking aim at the stunned Raiden and fires with the assault rifle. Raiden recovers just in time to deflect the first wave of bullets with his HF blade, but soon realizes he can't afford to deflect them all. But then Big Boss's clip is finished, and Raiden being the elite commando that he is moves in close for the kill rushing at Big Boss with ninja-like grace and precision. However right before Raiden gets close enough to cleave Big boss, he finds himself in the middle of a flash grenade's explosion. Big Boss uses his new found advantage and disarms Raiden. From there on the fight goes hand to hand with either of them not having a clear advantage over the other.

Edit: Of course that's just a possible scenario I came up with and does not mean that's how the fight will go.

Sam Z
Originally posted by Superboy Prime
...Raiden is a beast wheather people want to accept it or not.
Sorry, i can't accept it.sad
He looks more like an enraged squirrel to me, but not the Beast.

Superboy Prime
Well Squirrels tend to beat the likes of Doom and Thanos so...

kamikz
Originally posted by Superboy Prime
Ocelot picked up some of BB's own moves though as far as I remember, and that was only after Jack already handed him and his Ocelot squad their asses. True swords are not part of modern day combat; but neither are hornets; Electriy powered suits; hallucinations(the sorrow) etc. etc.

Here's a scenario that comes to mind:

BB and Raiden stand 30 meters when the battle starts. BB and Raiden both search for cover and begin firing at each other with their assault rifles. Perfectly covered both killing machines realize they must change tactics. Big Boss stops firing and grabs hold of a frag grenade, and throws it at Raiden's cover. The White Devil summersaults and rolls out of harms way. However the explossion is still strong enough to knock him off balance. While all of this is happening Big Boss is taking aim at the stunned Raiden and fires with the assault rifle. Raiden recovers just in time to deflect the first wave of bullets with his HF blade, but soon realizes he can't afford to deflect them all. But then Big Boss's clip is finished, and Raiden being the elite commando that he is moves in close for the kill rushing at Big Boss with ninja-like grace and precision. However right before Raiden gets close enough to cleave Big boss, he finds himself in the middle of a flash grenade's explosion. Big Boss uses his new found advantage and disarms Raiden. From there on the fight goes hand to hand with either of them not having a clear advantage over the other.

Edit: Of course that's just a possible scenario I came up with and does not mean that's how the fight will go.


So BB is only able to match someone who watched him fight once? I remember BB hearing the Boss in his head, "try to remember the BASICS of CQC". He ain't that hot on it really, except a few moves. After all, he hadn't practised it for 5 years... And BB never faced hornets unarmed stick out tongue



Lol nice, well that is a possible way for it to go. But I belive that BB is quite highly superior to Raiden in a shoot out. Raiden's good, but considering all that BB did with a gun in the game, he is, dare I say easily, gonna come out on top in a shoot out. If Raiden sees this he will probably go with the HF blade, or he will right away.....

Just for the heck of it, I'll continue the scenario.... (Although this is no story telling thread).


BB, being no fan of blades, and seing no use for it, tosses the stolen HF blade beside him. Raiden quickly recovers from the disarm, and stands on his feet in a fighting stance. BB attacks. He throws a kick, which Raiden ducks under, then he throws to punches. One of them hits Raiden in the face and he tumbles backwards losing balance, but makes a quick backflip not to land on his back, and instead lands on his feet.
Raiden attacks, throwing two quick jabs at BB, which he only has time to parry, then makes a tornado kick, which hits BB twice in the face. He falls on the floor. His bandana slided of his head....
Raiden runs up to him, but BB holds him back by launching some kicks while lying down, then gets back up quickly.
Both combatents are a little wounded, Raiden is very fautige at the moment.


They both look at eachother. Two machines, breed to kill, both built as to be a recreation of a perfect soldier. Big Boss of the Boss, and Raiden of Solid Snake. They don't ask questions, they don't wonder why they were chosen to do it, they just do it, cause that is their priority, that is their duty, that is what they're made for.... And that is what they both dispise. Being a weapon, a useable pawn in a game of chess, both know the feeling, they both hate it. They share the same name, and a similair growth, maybe they were more alike then what their apperances told them....


Big Boss readys himself for another go, when he suddenly stops, hearing voices in his head, familiar voices. Echos, like the wind hitting him hard on the cheek at first, just to then go on and go past him. In a warm day that wind could be said to be "gentle", in a cold day it could be a "pain". If this was one of those days, this day was freezing....

"Jack, I've loved you, taught you techniques, given you guns. There is nothing more for me to give you. The only thing left for you to take is my life...."
"You are above even the Boss, I heraby give you the title, of Big Boss"
"You're a wonderful man..."
"She was a true patriot"
"Do it!!!!"

And it pierced him like an arrow, an arrow which made the Fear's bolts piercing his leg feeling like a joke. This arrow would never get out, and it would haunt him forever..... But how could he fight now? How can a broken man fight? How could he fight if he could not ever recover from the memories he had?

Big Boss closed his eyes, then opened them slowly. All his memories were based on events that had something to do with war, with killing someone, or traning to kill someone. That was what he grew up with, and something he had to carry with him for his life....
"I'm not a hired killer", that's what he had said at the time of the Snake Eater project. No, he was not a hired killer, he was a monster.....

"Just look at that bandana, if you cannot let go of the past........."

He knew what he had to do, and he was going to do it. Battle was the only thing he had ever experienced. In battle was the only time he had felt emotions like love, hate, sorrow, joy. If those places were where his feeling belonged, then he could not let go off battle either. If battle was his place to be, then battle was his place to be.

Snake dropped his stance and kneeled to the floor and picked up his bandana. Raiden stood there, just watching...
Big Boss took it, and placed it around his head. If he could not let go of his emotions, then battle would stick with him as well. He wanted to fufill the Boss last wish, to be remembered. If he would remember her, he would have to stick with battle, forever, a world of battle needed to exist....


"Snake, try to remember some of the basics of CQC"


Snake looked into Raiden's eyes, and even delivered a smile, before changing his stance into a CQC stance. Raiden threw a punch, which Snake quickly took the advantage off. He took his hand in a hard grip, pulling his fingers in different directions causing extreme pain to Raiden, before tossing him to the floor, and keeping his arm in the air in an extreme grip.
Raiden felt his strenght running from him....


LOL! Ok seriousley, I got dragged away by that story shit. Like 2/3 had nothing to do with the battle. Ok whatever, you could continue... stick out tongue

Superboy Prime
Don't worry I've been there myself.

---

In a matter of seconds the White Devil finds himself on the receiving end of a perfectly applied hold performed by Big Boss. For the moment Raiden does not make a move, for taking the wrong turn could result in him causing his own arm to break. Raiden blinks and inmeadiately analyzes multiple ways to free himself from Big Boss's grip. Without further delay he brings his leg upwards in an attempt to hit his opponent in the face with an axe kick. Big Boss parried the kick with his left hand, but to do so he had to loosen his grip over Raiden's arm. It was then that Raiden broke free of the hold by twisting his arm and sending a sweep kick at Big Boss's feet. Big Boss gets knocked off his feet and rolls backwards. Both men took 2 steps backwards and stared each other down.

Too close a match to call a clear winner. Raiden began to feel doubt in his ability to take down an adversary such as Naked Snake. Raiden's eyes locked on the hilt of the HF blade laying on the ground a couple of feet away from him. "If only I could find a way to distract him long enough to..."--his thoughts interrupted by a right hook to the jaw followed by an elbow heading directly at his torso. Ignoring the pain in his mouth Raiden managed to stop the 2nd blow from making full contact. He threw his right foot downwards at Big Boss's knee to smash it, but Big Boss being a step ahead of him had already altered his footing. He hit the ground and followed the momentum by tackling Naked Snake off his feet. Before both combatants landed on the ground Raiden found himself in mid-air thanks to Naked Snake having thrown him off him.

"Perfect." Jack the Ripper grasps the HF blade's handle and gets on his feet with a quick horizontal slash to Naked Snake's neck. Big Boss ducked under the slash just in time, the sharp blade cutting the bandana and a few tendrils of hair. Raiden sent his knee upwards and it slams itself on Big Boss's face with compact force. Time for the kill Raiden thought to himself as he slammed the HF Blade down in a vertical manner at Naked Snake's frame--who was taking a couple of steps backwards due to the previous blow.

A)
Piercing. Needles. Was everything Raiden could think of before he found himself losing his aim, strength and footing. A dart stabbed through his skull suit. He looked forward and watched as Big Boss slowly put the tranquilizer gun away with a smirk on his face. He was so close to defeating this soldier, but apparently close is not enough. Tired...rest...Raiden fell to his knees and eventually became unconscious.

B)
Red splatters everywhere as blood overwhelms the arena. Big Boss no more. Raiden felt no pride nor joy in killing, yet it had to be done. Dropping to his knees and exhausted; Raiden grabs Big Boss's bandana and uses it to clean the blood off his HF blade.

---

As I said I see either of them taking the win, so I just had to come up with winning scenarios for both of them.

kamikz
Yeah. Although I see Big Boss as the superior soldier, both in experience and in physical talents and skill as well, Raiden has got the HF blade which could almost determin the whole fight, and much more hi-tech weapons. Don't get me wrong, by that describtion it seems like BB is lightyears ahead, and I don't think so. But in normal fighting means I don't see Raiden defeating BB. Do you?


Ok I've gotten into a writing mood, so I have to continue... (Thus skipping your endings and bringing on where your story left off).

Raiden had him by his feet, one more strike and it was all over. He raised his blade over his head, then let the sword fall. But Big Boss was not out of the game yet. Quickly he rolled to the side and sweaped with his legs, making Raiden fall flat on his back. The impact was hard and Raiden lost his breath. BB stood up and quickly ran up to Raiden who was lying on the ground.
He quickly disarmed Raiden once again by twisting Raiden's ankle. The HF blade fell to the ground. BB took a CQC grip around Raiden's arms, making him unable to move. This time, it was about time to finish the mission. Big Boss removed one hand, and grabbed his knife...


It all went to fast for Raiden. Having barley caught his breath before being knocked down, and under serious pain at the moment, he was only halfly conscious. It was a moment like this that Raiden knew he was going to die, and there was nothing he could do about it. And then it all went back to him again, how he from the start questioned why he actually fought. He had been brought back from a damned childhood by something less than real, and now he was going to pay the price. Why couldn't he let go of the gun? Why couldn't he stop the killing?

"Raiden, we don't carry guns to take people down, we're not here to help some politician either...
You can say that because you're a legend, a hero. I'm Jack the Ripper, a dirty reminder...of a terrible mistake.
A legend doesn't mean a whole lot, I was just a name to exploit, just like you....
And what are you and Otacon fighting for???
A future. You can stop being a part of a mistake, starting now....."

His conversation with Snake, it all made sense to him again. He didn't fight because he was forced to, or because he was led back to war by The Patriots. He fought because it was what he belived in. It was his own choice, no one elses, and no one could take it away from him. He died here as a soldier, not as a pawn....

And by that thought, Raiden closed his eyes, and got ready for death....

Suddenly, Big Boss stopped. Raiden still had his eyes closed. Big Boss lightened the grip, and put away his knife.
Raiden looked up....
- Why?
- .... You're still young...

(long story short)

Snake and Raiden went to take a beer in a bar............

Lol ok that story has nothing to do with the outcome, but whatever. It was fun. stick out tongue

Superboy Prime
I don't think Raiden is that far behind Big Boss in MGS3, but I do think Big Boss showed more control than Raiden.

LoL I was going to have option c with both of them going to a bar and share experiences while complaining about women like Eva and Rose.

Edit: I know this is off-topic, but you need to take a look at this: http://www.killermovies.com/forums/f77/t417179.html

kamikz
As I said, I don't belive him being far behind either, but I do belive that he is the inferior soldier compared to BB in MGS 3.

On the side note, Raiden is 27 or 29 in MGS 2 is he not? Or is that wrong?


And that is pretty ****ing sick.

Superboy Prime
According to this:
http://db.gamefaqs.com/console/psx/file/metal_gear_timeline.txt

Raiden is born in 1979. The events of Big Shell took place in 2009--which would make him 30 years old.

However I don't know where the maker got that info from.

kamikz
In MGS timeline I think it said 80, could be 80s, but I'm 90% sure it said 80. I don't think he is as old as 30, he's to fresh for that, if you know what I mean...

How old is Naked Snake by MGS 3 then?

Superboy Prime
Yeah. Solidus and Raiden both said Jack was a child-soldier during the 80s.

I do know what you mean, but Raiden was kind of acting as a rookie on purpose during the beginning of the Big Shell mission.

I honestly have no idea about Big Boss's age during MGS3. He's probably in his mid-late 30s though.

Edit: The FAQ does not list Big Boss's birthday.

kamikz
In timeline again, it says 30s, which means he could be anything around 30. I'd bet he is pretty early in it actually, like 34 or something. Raiden is probaly around 28-29 or something....

Well he had lost his memory, the Patriots had altered his memory, which Solidus gave back to him. I guess it was partly his own doing as well.... He did refuse to acknowledge the past.


Late here now, gotta get some sleep. Byez...

Superboy Prime
Er

Superboy Prime
Night.

Remember to always believe in yourself for within you lies the power of the Shoryuken!

Sam Z
Originally posted by Superboy Prime
Well Squirrels tend to beat the likes of Doom and Thanos so... lol fair enough.

IceJaw
Originally posted by Superboy Prime
Night.

Remember to always believe in yourself for within you lies the power of the Shoryuken! laughing out loud laughing out loud laughing out loud

kamikz
Originally posted by Superboy Prime
Night.

Remember to always believe in yourself for within you lies the power of the Shoryuken!


Lol, I spat out my drink when I read that...

IceJaw
laughing

Metalhead8486
Big Boss wins no doubt he is the legandary soldier and has years more fighting training.

kamikz
Actually, he became a legend after the operation, around the time of the Les Enfents Terrible project. And Snake is around his early 30's, while Raiden is 29 years old (looked that up), so the age difference ain't that great. Besides, Raiden was trained as a solider when he was a child, while Big Boss started in his teens, so in war experience, Raiden still wins....

turkish_flip64
BUT!! Do you think Raiden can take on The Boss?
Thats how BB got his name for taking down the greatest soldier that ever lived...if he can take down the boss, then surely he can take down BB, right?

leonheartmm
big boss

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