Click HERE to see this thread with all of the graphics, features, and links.

alright i had this conversation about what should be a dark side power and a light side including the inbetweens, and yea yea i know choke, lightning, plague, screem, are dark and heal, sheld, resistance, are light thats obvious i am talking about things like lightsaber throw weather they should be considered light or dark, personslly i think it should be a dark side power

gun_bandanarifleraygun

Originally posted by Blank force
alright i had this conversation about what should be a dark side power and a light side including the inbetweens, and yea yea i know choke, lightning, plague, screem, are dark and heal, sheld, resistance, are light thats obvious i am talking about things like lightsaber throw weather they should be considered light or dark, personslly i think it should be a dark side power

gun_bandanarifleraygun The saber throw is simple telekinesis. For f*cks sake, what in the seven Hells is up with all of these Force power threads?

i know its simple telekinesis but it is very agressive and agression is not the jedi way

It doesn't have to split a man in half, you know?

sostarwars

Most of those powers you listed are video game powers, and are used only in game, and therefore not canon.

Originally posted by ((The_Anomaly))
Most of those powers you listed are video game powers, and are used only in game, and therefore not canon.

Powers themselves are not of any nature unless they require the Dark Side or Light Side for usage.

For example, throwing your lightsabers with telekinesis could go either way. If you're using the Dark Side, it's a Dark Side power. If not, it's a Light Side power.

Dark Side = using your emotions for power and letting them use you.

Light Side = controlling your emotions and not using them for power and gaining power by understanding and training.

that didnt answer my question but never the less i still think that it should be a dark side power

Originally posted by ((The_Anomaly))
Most of those powers you listed are video game powers, and are used only in game, and therefore not canon.
not true saber throws are used in the movies and the clone wars cartoon series

It depends on the intention behind the action.

doesnt matter what the intention is it still very agresssive

tank

So if I want to just stop a Person with Force Crush, but it accidently kills them, then I wont turn Dark =)

yes because it is an accident

But what if it wasn't, you knew it would kill them, but you wanted to Incapacitate them
bangin

Originally posted by Blank force
yes because it is an accident Umm, sorry sir. The Council deems you INCORRECT! Besides that, the Force Crush -being judged by the visuals- is definitely a heart-stopper move. You can't not be aware that it'd kill someone and say it's an accident. Because it's not.

and if you knew it was going to kill them then its not a god damn accident

Also as mentioned in novel "Traitor" Jacen learns that there is no dark side of the force if you choose to use a force shield (a generally claimed "light side" power) to prevent air from getting to an enemy, you are choosing to be immoral. The force is simply a tool, you can't call a screwdriver evil just because it is easier to screw nails than a wrench. It is not the force that is evil, simply the force user.

not true and besides the fact nobodies answering my question should saber throw be a dark side power

Originally posted by Blank force
not true and besides the fact nobodies answering my question should saber throw be a dark side power I answered your question, are you dense?

I meant that you knew that it was very likely to kill them, as no one survived it before, but you wanted it to just knock them out

Also, what if you believe what you're doing is right? Revan used the Dark Side, and did a lot of terrible things, but he believed what he was doing was good, to save the Republic

Originally posted by Darth Kreiger
I meant that you knew that it was very likely to kill them, as no one survived it before, but you wanted it to just knock them outThen the user is an idiot. It's that simple.

Originally posted by Darth Kreiger
Also, what if you believe what you're doing is right? Revan used the Dark Side, and did a lot of terrible things, but he believed what he was doing was good, to save the Republic Oh noes! By killing I do the right thing! LOLOLOL. No. Just because one believes they're right does not make it so. And Revan is a damned touchy case in that matter, he had good intentions; but indeed he went about it all wrong.

exactly my point, you can use a power that kills someoneand think that it will just hurt them thats like putting a gun against someones head and tell them "it will only hurt for a second and dont worry you will live" and also there is no such thing as a light side force power that kills people, just incase you didnt know yawnyawnyawn

Originally posted by Blank force
exactly my point, you can use a power that kills someoneand think that it will just hurt them thats like putting a gun against someones head and tell them "it will only hurt for a second and dont worry you will live" and also there is no such thing as a light side force power that kills people, just incase you didnt know yawnyawnyawn

What about Luke's Green Lightning or whatever it's called?

Why would it be Dark Side to use the Force to throw a Sabre at them and kill them but not to use your hands to hack someone in half with a Sabre and kill them?

The Force just changes the means of delivery, the fundamental act is identical- death by sabre blade.

Jedi are Guardians, not pacifists. At times they have to fight and even kill.

the fact is that some are evil, like lightning, which can only be used for aggresion which isn' the jedi way. if you say that wrong then ask yourself "why doesn't yoda just use the force on dooku and kill him?"...

What was that Force push that threw him into the wall hard enough to kill a normal person about then?

Originally posted by Ushgarak
What was that Force push that threw him into the wall hard enough to kill a normal person about then?

When?

Again, what about Luke's NJO Lightning? Doesn't it insta-kill anyone

i dunno, ive never heard of it. it EU, so i consider it half-cannon (if you get what i mean), and didn't luke turn to the darkside in DE? im talking about what someone says about violence not being the jedi way, or some morale highground, patronising crap. its possible that after the fall of the OJO (old jedi order) the NJO (new jedi order) isn't as strickt and, faced with many new threats, luke and others have developed new powers...

or the creators got lazy and decided to have a "good side lighning power"

i think the latter.

this is from the link http://www.starwars.com/qa/?cat=388&question=13242

Is using Force lightning inherently evil? Didn't Yoda use that power in Episode II?

Yoda reflected back Dooku's Sith lightning and did not generate any of his own. As Yoda says in The Empire Strikes Back, a Jedi uses the Force for knowledge and defense, never for attack. There's no way to rationalize Force lightning as a defensive power. It's using the Force in an extremely aggressive fashion, so yes, it is inherently a power of the dark side, and using it could have terrible consequences.

Players of Star Wars: Jedi Starfighter will note that Force lightning is an ability available in the game, but that's a game-play convention. While the core story of Jedi Starfighter does fit into overall Star Wars continuity, the actual mechanics take a number of liberties for the sake of making the game more exciting.

force lightning isnt a defensive power but reflecting it would be

Originally posted by Captain REX
Powers themselves are not of any nature unless they require the Dark Side or Light Side for usage.

For example, throwing your lightsabers with telekinesis could go either way. If you're using the Dark Side, it's a Dark Side power. If not, it's a Light Side power.

Dark Side = using your emotions for power and letting them use you.

Light Side = controlling your emotions and not using them for power and gaining power by understanding and training.

I just answered everything in this thread. It has nothing to do with intent or what you're purpose is for using the power. It has to do with emotions.

Anakin let his emotions control him (fear, anger, hubris).

Obi-Wan had emotions, but did not use them for power.

Same with Yoda and Windu. They're Jedi. Palpatine used extreme hatred. Maul used extreme hatred. Dooku used anger and hubris. They're evil.

Darkies use emotions for power. Jedi do not use emotions.

Pretty simple.

Originally posted by Sith Lord Windu
When?

Against Palpatine.

The fact is, the Jedi use the Force aggressively all the time, even if they do not use Lightning. Right from the start in TPM they were force pushing droids into tiny pieces, they do it in the Arena in AOTC, and Yoda does it in ROTS! Trying to claim the Force is never used offensively, when every single Jedi does so, is useless.

When Yoda says the Jedi use the Force for defence, never for attack, he is talking about their general philosophy, not the literal way it is used in a fight.

General philosophy being self-defense and defense of others who need defending.

Originally posted by Captain REX
General philosophy being self-defense and defense of others who need defending.

So then if you are using the Dark Side Powers in Self-Defence it's ok?

Originally posted by Darth Kreiger
So then if you are using the Dark Side Powers in Self-Defence it's ok?
i dissagree

The only way you could use a dark side power in self-defence is too USE THE DARK SIDE. i.e. giving into emotions and passions.

Throwing your lightsaber at a hanging wire in order to cut the power so you can open a door isn't "Dark Side."

Throwing your lightsaber with the intent on killing someone is only dark side if they're A.) Defenceless or B.) Unprepared and/or unware.

Killing with a Saberthrow is exactly the same as killing while it's still in your hands. It IS your intentions that make it Light or Dark.

Does noone listen to REX?

Originally posted by Tangible God
The only way you could use a dark side power in self-defence is too USE THE DARK SIDE. i.e. giving into emotions and passions.

Throwing your lightsaber at a hanging wire in order to cut the power so you can open a door isn't "Dark Side."

Throwing your lightsaber with the intent on killing someone is only dark side if they're A.) Defenceless or B.) Unprepared and/or unware.

Killing with a Saberthrow is exactly the same as killing while it's still in your hands. It IS your intentions that make it Light or Dark.

Does noone listen to REX?

Exactly.


And if I hear any NJO bullshit again, I will kill whoever says.

Originally posted by Himo
Exactly.


And if I hear any NJO bullshit again, I will kill whoever says.

I have been asking about the NJO(It ruined Star Wars) and how Lukes Green Lightning IS NOT considered Dark Side, it's an insta-kill, there's no chance of survival from it, it's Darker than the Dark Side

force push can be a defensive power, yoda does it, imo, becuase hes pissed at being shocked. pushing droids doesn't count as thier not living beings.

the first form developed is the jedi phiosophy, disarming an opponent with as little injury as possible, unless thier too powerful to be left alive, thats why they use it offensivly during the movies.

jedi think outwards, defending people who cannot defend themselves and fighting evil

the sith think inwards, using thier powers for thier own ends.both light and dark powers are reflected by the philosophies.

a metafor:

Imagine the force as a river of water starting it journey at the top of a mountain, the mauntain being time. as the water, or the force, flows and carves its own natural way down the mountain. the jedi are like natives that live next to the river, using the water but letting it continue its natural path. the sit, even one, can be likened to a dam that blocks the water natural path, drawing the water for its own purposes. if the dam is broken, in other words the sith destroyed, the waters can return to thier natural state and path.

this can be used if your describing the force powers used.

A decent metaphor.

did you just think that up or did you get it from somewhere

"force push can be a defensive power, yoda does it, imo, becuase hes pissed at being shocked. pushing droids doesn't count as thier not living beings."

No it is not 'defensive' It is used TO ATTACK THINGS. How much more clear can that be~?

Saying droids do not count is silly- it is still abeing used as a weapon. Besides which, it was also used on Geonosians, and saying it is still defensive when Yoda used it but that was different because he is 'pissed' it madness.

The Jedi use the force as a weapon. They use it offensively as a weapon. But they do all this inside the gneeral task of defending others- the same way they use their Lightsabres.

Why is this 'emerald lightning' darker than the darkside because it kills? What does that make a lightsabre?

There's no way for it to be used in the Jedi Code, it's more dark than normal Force Lightning, because it will automatically kill someone upon contact, how is that not considered a Dark Side power is what I'm asking? It makes normal Force Lightning look like a Light Side pwoer

Again- what makes it evil because it kills quickly, that is different from a Lightsabre?

If something is going to be evil in Star Wars it cannot be because it kills. That makes all weapons evil, from lightsabres to X-Wings to Han Solo's blaster.

That's funny, in The New Rebellion the Imperial Royalists said the same thing....


The Jedi are not suppose to use the Force to kill a person, a Lightsaber can be used to disarm, incapacitate, and yes, kill if the situation calls for it, you are not supposed to kill/injure someone on purpose, unless again, there is no other way. There is NO way to survive 'Emerald Lightning'

who uses emerald lightning and can i see some pics please

as kyle katarn says on jedi outcast 2 no power is realyy good or evil its how u use them.

Originally posted by Darth Kreiger
That's funny, in The New Rebellion the Imperial Royalists said the same thing....


The Jedi are not suppose to use the Force to kill a person, a Lightsaber can be used to disarm, incapacitate, and yes, kill if the situation calls for it, you are not supposed to kill/injure someone on purpose, unless again, there is no other way. There is NO way to survive 'Emerald Lightning'

There is no way to survive a lightsabre to the head. Again, difference, please?

You CANNOT classify a force power as evil just because it kills- you have top get your head around that. Force pushing someone off a balcony kills, does that make it Dark Side?

ok, lets get itn stait, the jedi dont go for the head, they go for the arm or leg. thier way is to disarm, ect, ect ,ect. htey dont kill a they preserve peace and thier philosophy says that everyone deserves redemption. the only exeption is when an enemy is too powerful, like dooku or sidious.

force powers can be classed, only the main ones like lighning and force valor. thier are some but they are hard to class, like push. IMO, push can be used defensively, like pushing an opponent on to the floor when hes off guard, lightning can only be used as an offensive power and is classed as a darkside power.

@blank force, i found it somewhere on SW.com.

Originally posted by Ushgarak
There is no way to survive a lightsabre to the head. Again, difference, please?

You CANNOT classify a force power as evil just because it kills- you have top get your head around that. Force pushing someone off a balcony kills, does that make it Dark Side?


That's classed as a "Grey" power, it makes it Dark if the Power is intended to Kill/Injure someone, i.e Grip, Lightning, Crush, and Light if it is only to keep the Person from dying, or protecting another, Heal, Shield, Valor etc. A Lightsaber isn't a part of the Force, as explained by Kreia, "it's a Jedi's Tool" it's not supposed to be used for Deadly Force unless neccesary, as opposed to the Dark Side Powers, which are used only for Injury/Death

Originally posted by Sith Lord Windu
ok, lets get itn stait, the jedi dont go for the head, they go for the arm or leg. thier way is to disarm, ect, ect ,ect. htey dont kill a they preserve peace and thier philosophy says that everyone deserves redemption. the only exeption is when an enemy is too powerful, like dooku or sidious.

force powers can be classed, only the main ones like lighning and force valor. thier are some but they are hard to class, like push. IMO, push can be used defensively, like pushing an opponent on to the floor when hes off guard, lightning can only be used as an offensive power and is classed as a darkside power.

@blank force, i found it somewhere on SW.com.

Don't be ridiculous- a lightsabre duel is a fatal contest. Jedi go for as many killing strokes as Sith. You go into a fight half-assed, you will lose. If you are in a lethal fight with a foe and you can get the head, you go for the damn head, else you are an idiot and you will die. What kind of protector are you then?

Jedi carry a weapon designed to kill, NOT a subdual device. They will fight and they will kill, if necessary, in order to protect the Republic, just like any law enforcer.

Jedi also can kill with Force pushes, and throwing their sabre with the Force, and any such thing. This is not Dark Side, and there is no such damn thing as 'Grey' in the Force.

'Crush' is not even a distinct power. it is just using the Force to pinch something, which is no different, ultimately, from using it to lift or throw something.

Again, you absolutely CANNOT classify something as evil because it is fatal. Jedi use fatal things for good, though they won't unless they have to.

Just because you use the Force to kill, that doesn't make it any more innately evil than from using a lightsabre, a gun, or even your bare hands. They are morally equivalent.

No power is 'Dark Side' simply because it kills. That is not a qualification, and any source saying so is in contradiction to how the powers are used in the films.

There is a SINGLE qualifcation for something being the Dark Side. And that is that it uses the damn Dark Side! That it uses your emotions, and is used selfishly and for your own gain. That is the Daek Side. Killing is irrelevant. You can kill in the name of good, and Jedi very often do.

If something was on the Dark Side because it can cause injury and death, then every single Jedi would be on the Dark Side, because they are all trained to kill.

When QGJ and Obi-Wan Pushed at droids in TPM, they were using the Force as a weapon- and that the targets were droids was irrelevant, and aisde from anything else it was clearly something they had often done before, and it would not be to droids. When Anakin did it to Geonosians, it was using the Force as a weapon. When Jedi did it to Geonosians in the arena, it was using the Force as a weapon. When Yoda did it to Palpatine, it was using it as a weapon, and it was powerful enough to kill.

Think again.

thank you

Doesn't get any more obvious than that. I'm not even going to quote myself again.

I will say, though, that this perception of powers being Light or Dark comes from video games like Jedi Outcast and KOTOR.

Well, KOTOR invented the Force power 'Destroy Droid' which goes to show how seriously people should take that.

Actually it first appeared in DLOTS, KotOT just gave it a lame name.

DLOTS is a KOTOR game.

lol, no I mean the dark horse comic named Dark Lords of the Sith.

Originally posted by Darth Grathius
Also as mentioned in novel "Traitor" Jacen learns that there is no dark side of the force if you choose to use a force shield (a generally claimed "light side" power) to prevent air from getting to an enemy, you are choosing to be immoral. The force is simply a tool, you can't call a screwdriver evil just because it is easier to screw nails than a wrench. It is not the force that is evil, simply the force user.

He's right. The force is a tool. Not good nor evil.

This goes out to everyone who was arguing about damn force crush earlier. If you guys are saying it's dark then why the hell did Mace Windu use it on Grievous?

well kyle katarn says this on jedi knight jedi academy no foce power is good or evil its how u use them but its weird how jedi can only use light powers howed they learn the powers in the first place howed sidous learn lightning and luke dint

Originally posted by Forcemaster
This goes out to everyone who was arguing about damn force crush earlier. If you guys are saying it's dark then why the hell did Mace Windu use it on Grievous? Force Crush is like gripping a lightsaber handle, or grasping an object from a distance by using the Force. It's the intention of the user that determines if Force crush/grab is bad or good.

Originally posted by Tangible God
Force Crush is like gripping a lightsaber handle, or grasping an object from a distance by using the Force. It's the intention of the user that determines if Force crush/grab is bad or good.

Exactly. By the way, I love the caption.thumbup1