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1. In a race

2. In a fight

1. Zoom. Time is frozen and Zoom has the speed of the Flash when time is frozen. That's BEYOND speed....


2. ???

1) Runner

2) Runner

The Runner doesn't even really have superspeed. He's a high-level teleporter. Thanos was smart enough to figure that out.

How can anyone beat a person in a race who can run at speeds of light when time is frozen.

If I could move around while time is frozen, I would technically be "faster" than Superman. Zoom is just beyond pure speed unless you have time manipulation powers...

I've yet to see any Runner feats without the space gem.

Runner does have superspeed, it was when he was using the Space Gem he was using mental teleportation, he retained his speed after he lost it. Off the top of my head for an example, when the aging spell Thanos places on Runner wears off he hits the Collector at superspeed despite not having the gem.

Zoom also cannot freeze time, he isn't capable of stopping time for Runner so he can get to the finish line before Runner has even set off. Wally became as fast as Zoom after he added Jessie's speed to his own.

Originally posted by Wally West
Runner does have superspeed, it was when he was using the Space Gem he was using mental teleportation, he retained his speed after he lost it. Off the top of my head for an example, when the aging spell Thanos places on Runner wears off he hits the collector at superspeed despite not having the gem.
I know he has super speed. I'm just saying I haven't seen any evidence that he's as fast without the gem as he is with.

Well no, hes certainly not as fast without the gem, anyone with the space gem can effectively be the fastest person in the universe.

Originally posted by Wally West
Runner does have superspeed, it was when he was using the Space Gem he was using mental teleportation, he retained his speed after he lost it.

Zoom also cannot freeze time, he isn't capable of stopping time for Runner so he can get to the finish line before Runner has even set off. Wally became as fast as Zoom after he added Jessie's speed to his own.

Zoom exists in a timeframe of his own. He's a man trapped in his own timeframe. To him, time is literally frozen. This is why he blips in and out of this world like a bad VHS tape. He concentrates to enter our timestrea m temporarily to talk or perform actions.

Flash stated the Speed Formula. The Speed Formula literally freezes time to the extent where Superman is a stone statue. He entered Zoom's timeframe.

Zoom and Flash were moving at lightspeed around the world while time was frozen. That's ridiculously "fast". Runner can go at 7000 times the speed of light if he wants but he still be "slower" than Zoom...

Originally posted by Validus
I know he has super speed. I'm just saying I haven't seen any evidence that he's as fast without the gem as he is with.
I havent seen any pannel proof as well.
But, he did state that he is the fastest without the space gem.

Originally posted by Draco69
Zoom exists in a timeframe of his own. He's a man trapped in his own timeframe. To him, time is literally frozen. This is why he blips in and out of this world like a bad VHS tape. He concentrates to enter our timestrea m temporarily to talk or perform actions.

Flash stated the Speed Formula. The Speed Formula literally freezes time to the extent where Superman is a stone statue. He entered Zoom's timeframe.

Zoom and Flash were moving at lightspeed around the world while time was frozen. That's ridiculously "fast". Runner can go at 7000 times the speed of light if he wants but he still be "slower" than Zoom... I guess we just interpret his powers differently. The way I see it is Zoom can control his fast or slow his own personal timeframe goes (although there is a limit), but he cannot freeze everyone else its just that he is going so fast everyone else is effectively frozen compared to him. If Zoom lived in a frozen world it would be impossible for anyone to ever hit him, yet Wally, Bart, Superman Prime, Wonder Woman have all landed hits on him...

Originally posted by Wally West
I guess we just interpret his powers differently. The way I see it is Zoom can control his fast or slow his own personal timeframe goes (although there is a limit), but he cannot freeze everyone else its just that he is going so fast everyone else is effectively frozen compared to him. If Zoom lived in a frozen world it would be impossible for anyone to ever hit him, yet Wally, Bart, Superman Prime, Wonder Woman have all landed hits on him...

Because he's "bliping" in and out of the timestream as Diana said. And then she somehow (Athena was most assuredly blessing her with reality warping powers...) Diana snagged him in his lasso.

By bliping, it's the only way he actually "stays" in our world.

Didn't the Runner have a race with a bunch of speedsters and win, and blitz the Surfer? Both were without the space gem.

Originally posted by Endless Mike
Didn't the Runner have a race with a bunch of speedsters and win, and blitz the Surfer? Both were without the space gem. Yup and are the Endless Mike from the Naruto forums?

Originally posted by Endless Mike
Didn't the Runner have a race with a bunch of speedsters and win, and blitz the Surfer? Both were without the space gem.
He didn't win the race and I believe he did have the gem against Surfer.

Originally posted by Skeets
He didn't win the race and I believe he did have the gem against Surfer. Not the first time they met.Runner wins by the way.Not only does he have speed but he has the power primordial as well which is like a watered down Power cosmic.

Zoom isnt nesseacrily fast, its just that everyone else is slower than him

Originally posted by superbatman86
Yup and are the Endless Mike from the Naruto forums?

Yes I am

Originally posted by Skeets
He didn't win the race and I believe he did have the gem against Surfer.

I think he lost to Makkari, the Eternal, and possibly would've lost to Barry Allen/blah if he hadn't turned around to combat forces that where threatening them from behind.

And yep on having the gem against Surfer IIRC.

Runner is like flash BUT, on a cosmic scale.
Thats the bottm line.

Zoom... time frozen... "faster"...

even if Zoom is a lil faster than the Runner (which I seriously doubt) the runner has vast cosmic powers to more than make up the diffrence.

Originally posted by Inhuman
Runner is like flash BUT, on a cosmic scale.
Thats the bottm line.
The Flash is Flash on a cosmic scale.

Originally posted by Validus
The Flash is Flash on a cosmic scale. Has anyone else ever outraced instantaneous travel?

Originally posted by Draco69
Because he's "bliping" in and out of the timestream as Diana said. And then she somehow (Athena was most assuredly blessing her with reality warping powers...) Diana snagged him in his lasso.

By bliping, it's the only way he actually "stays" in our world.
Just to follow on from my point about Zoom not freezing time or living in a frozen world, when Jessie gave Wally all of her speeed (and he may have still had the remains of Jay and Bart's speed) he is as fast as Zoom and states that "Time NEARLY stops around me". Time hasn't frozen, he is just going so fast its as if everything has frozen. Another example is later in the fight Wally states they have been fighting for just over a second or something.

Jay gives a good description of Zoom's powers: "He can control how fast or slow he moves ahead in time. He can even stop HIMSELF."

He cannot stop everyone else or freeze everyone. When Hunter wakes up for the first time everyone appears to be frozen but he can hear a humming, which is a fly's wings which are still moving, just very very slowly compared to him. If time was frozen for him it would be impossible for anyone to ever land hits on him, but thats not the case.