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Well i dont know soo much about spidey so il ask people who do know much.

Carnage when he had his old symbiote was stronger, his new symbiote....I'm not sure about

cargnage class= 50 tons
brock venom = 11tons
(thats wot the handbooks used to say i personally think
venom=25 tons )

I think it would be more than 11 tonnes

yh i beleive its closer to or equal to 25 tons as he can throw tanks , bulldozers the lot

Carnage has been known to over power both Spidey and Venom at the same time on more than one occasion. I would think that Carnage is stronger than Venom, but Venom has been known to over power Carnage by himself on Carnage's own ground on a few occasions as well. So, it's pretty close, but it has been stated that Carnage is stronger than Venom.

Originally posted by ankur29
cargnage class= 50 tons


I find that hard to believe. I will agree that Carnage is stronger, but his strength level has got to be no more than 11 or 12 tons. 50 is just pushing the limit.

well his bio stated he was class 50 he was stronger than venom and spidey combined

Yeah I read he could lift 50 tonnes as well. It was in a guide to spidey

wikipedai proper bio looks right to me

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carnage_%28comics%29

There we go, 50 tonnes

Isn't Spider-Man at 15? So that would mean Brock would have to be at around 20 or so. So that means Carnage would be at about 40 if he supposedly can best both at the same time. However, throughout the Venom/Carnage fights we've seen, Venom knows how to beat C.K.'s ass lol.

Couldn't that all be down to bad writing? or maybe the fact that it would be boring to see venom gettin owned by Carnage all the time. I think it all comes down to Venom just being smarter than Cassady

It happens to often for bad writing and Venom was shown not only to beat Carnage but to overpower him with brute strength and it was before he got an upgrade.
And certanly symbiotes are far stronger than class 11-12.

conisedering a possibilty for spidey's upgrade spidey is 20tons
if brock gets suit back venom will be 25-30tons
carnage if he gets his suit back =50tons

Obviously there has been a few years of bad writing that I have missed out on.

If Carnage's strength is in the 50 ton strength class then he would near to impossible to beat by either Spider-Man and Venom. So, there's got to be some miscommunication going on here.

Carnage, plain and simple. Venom is cooler, but carnage is stronger. (and a cheap ripoff of venom)

thats becasue spider man and venom are higher than they are said to be ......when venom was said to be 11tons he went around having beef with juggeranut........liufting bulldozers and stuff easily

spidey when around supporting caollapsing building so the strength rating the handbook writers are not correct but carngae has shown consistent strength taht can represent the 50 ton class

Originally posted by ankur29
carngae has shown consistent strength taht can represent the 50 ton class

Scans?

They should just do an official update of the whole thing.

Carnage is stronger, the son is always stronger than the child. Toxin would be the strongest.

This pic should make everything clear!

Carnage may be physicly stronger but he is Irrational and Acts on impluse..some Mentally he is far supior, almost equal to my speeling

toxin is class 75!!!!!!!

Originally posted by symbiosis
This pic should make everything clear!

Really? In this case on this picture it is clear that Spider-man is stronger than both symbiotes combined. But he actually isn't.

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=6141210

Venom was often kicking Carnage's a$$ before, and know he got an upgrade. So they were pretty equel before and now Venom is stronger.

That wasn't bad writing that was terrible writing.

Originally posted by Sam Z
Really? In this case on this picture it is clear that Spider-man is stronger than both symbiotes combined. But he actually isn't.

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=6141210

Venom was often kicking Carnage's a$$ before, and know he got an upgrade. So they were pretty equel before and now Venom is stronger.

As inexperienced as they were at that time, the life foundation symbiotes were not ready to take on any super human fighting as of yet.

But that was about strength. Lifting and throwing to bodies for someone who can lift over 10 tonnes is not a big deal, same in case of Carnage. Current Venom is still stronger.

I still think that Carnage is stonger, but I think that Kassidy is an idiot and that is why he looses to venom.

Originally posted by symbiosis
I still think that Carnage is stonger, but I think that Kassidy is an idiot and that is why he looses to venom.

That scene also is not relevant enough. Carnage was suffering from some serious head trauma. Despite what was being said in that strip, Carnage was too confused, and was unable to focus.

Carnage is stronger but Venom seems to be a better fighter.

If anyone ever collects the three issue series featuring Carnage's first appearances, it is clear that Carnage is, without a doubt, the strongest of both Venom and Spider-Man, due to the inexperiences that both Venom and Spider-Man have in dealing with lunatics such as Kletus Cassidy whose moral agenda is entirely the opposite of that of themselves. And also due to Carnage pwning the sh!t out of Venom and Spidey the entire time.

The Maximum Carnage series, as excellent a story as it is, really doesn't show too much one on one action between either Spidey, Venom, or Carnage. There are a few fight scenes between them, especially with the last issue, but most of the time they're just playing cat and mouse with him.

Carnage stronger as stated before However he's crazed and loses to venom quite a bit
Originally posted by Phoenix2001
If anyone ever collects the three issue series featuring Carnage's first appearances, it is clear that Carnage is, without a doubt, the strongest of both Venom and Spider-Man, due to the inexperiences that both Venom and Spider-Man have in dealing with lunatics such as Kletus Cassidy whose moral agenda is entirely the opposite of that of themselves. And also due to Carnage pwning the sh!t out of Venom and Spidey the entire time.

The Maximum Carnage series, as excellent a story as it is, really doesn't show too much one on one action between either Spidey, Venom, or Carnage. There are a few fight scenes between them, especially with the last issue, but most of the time they're just playing cat and mouse with him.
considering it was their first fight and Venom didn't know all of Carnage's powers he fought well and besides they hardly fought. Maximum Carnage Venom and them were pretty much equal Carnage won with his team while Venom's fought against him Venom is the better fighter though not stronger

Originally posted by symbiosis
I still think that Carnage is stonger, but I think that Kassidy is an idiot and that is why he looses to venom.

I don't think you should take this picture as a proof only because Venom said "may be", he also said he is deadlier, and that is not true.

Originally posted by Phoenix2001
That scene also is not relevant enough. Carnage was suffering from some serious head trauma. Despite what was being said in that strip, Carnage was too confused, and was unable to focus.

When Carnage appeared Venom was barely standing, he was tired and badly injured after HOURS of torture. Besides Carnage's trauma did not effected his speed and strength. So it still was a fair fight and Venom pretty much kicked his a$$.

Honestly people. This all happened before Venom got an upgrade.
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=6638834


http://www.killermovies.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=6638840
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=6638845

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=6643151
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=6643153
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=6643160
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=6643162
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=6638860
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=6643168

i dont undersatnd what upgrade you are talking about .....carnage is stronger than venom ..venom is more durable and obviusoly a btter fighter

venom is about 25-30tons(as thsi woudl explain himm lifting the havy things he has done his strength fluctuates it does not need upgrades he strong and durable enough to go toe to toe with class 50s and own them

spidey has recently got an upgrade........but to what extent it is unkown


if you are talking about scorpion venom he may still be around 25 tons but still below class 50 carange

it is possibel though that if brock gets the suit back he will be stronger in teh marvel book gudes and be recorded as a class 25-30

Well, Carnage never lifted anything heavier than Helicopter and I'm not talking about Scorpion. Before Venom was beating Carnage as often or even more regulary than Carnage beating Venom so they were pretty equel. Then Venom merged with his clone that was created from piece of symbiote and that clone was almost as strong as original Venom and they became one. So current Venom is almost twice as strong as Venom that was equel to Carnage.

There.

...

dude just cos a guy cant match another guy dont make them equal in strength ....for example cap going toe to toe with spidey dont make him a class 20 he's jus 800lbs

wolvie goin toe to toe with spidey and matching him does not make him class 20

you understand wot im sayin

venom was said to be 11 tons in the handbooks so if he merged with a clone of himself he woudl be 25-30tons maximum

Originally posted by ankur29
dude just cos a guy cant match another guy dont make them equal in strength ....for example cap going toe to toe with spidey dont make him a class 20 he's jus 800lbs

wolvie goin toe to toe with spidey and matching him does not make him class 20

you understand wot im sayin

venom was said to be 11 tons in the handbooks so if he merged with a clone of himself he woudl be 25-30tons maximum

Have you ever seen Cap outwrestling Spider? Venom is not only matches Carnage in fight but outfights him or holds him with brute strength so yes he was equel in strength and Venom was never class 11, don't trust directories. Even Spider-man could lift more than that before and Venom was always much stronger than him.

Look Carnage can't free himself from Venom's grab even with help from Spider.
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=6638834 And again, that was before the upgrade.

Originally posted by Sam Z
When Carnage appeared Venom was barely standing, he was tired and badly injured after HOURS of torture. Besides Carnage's trauma did not effected his speed and strength. So it still was a fair fight and Venom pretty much kicked his a$$.

You forget, symbionts can heal rapidly. After getting tons of beatings from Carnage, Venom eventually escaped and stayed absent from fighting for two issues. I would think that Venom had enough time to recover. Carnage, on the other hand, was mentally damaged from Deathlok's machine. There's a huge difference between mental damage and physical damage. And I never said his trauma effected his speed or strength. I said it effected his focus.

Originally posted by Sam Z
Honestly people. This all happened before Venom got an upgrade.
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=6638834


http://www.killermovies.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=6638840
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=6638845

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=6643151
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=6643153
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=6643160
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=6643162
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=6638860
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=6643168

All of these images, except for the first two or so, are from scenes of the last Maximum Carnage issue. Clearly, if you read the damn comic, Venom has the advantage as Carnage is not fully coordinated. This does not prove anything except that Venom will take the advantage of beating down a degraded Carnage.

Originally posted by Phoenix2001
All of these images, except for the first two or so, are from scenes of the last Maximum Carnage issue. Clearly, if you read the damn comic, Venom has the advantage as Carnage is not fully coordinated. This does not prove anything except that Venom will take the advantage of beating down a degraded Carnage.

Pay attention to this picture again http://www.killermovies.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=6643151
I dunno how much time he had to recover after hours of torture with sonics and fire but when he started fighting Carnage he clearly was barely standing. So it still was a fair fight. And other pictures are from Venom on trial. Venom clearly won that fight and it was fair too. In Carnage unlished they had a tie and in Venom and Carnage Venom won again, so i still say they were pretty equel then and Venom was victorious even more often and now after upgrade he is stronger.
People are just got used to directories where it's said Carnage is stronger than both combined but they clearly havn't updated their directories since Carnage's first appearance.

Originally posted by Sam Z
Pay attention to this picture again http://www.killermovies.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=6643151
I dunno how much time he had to recover after hours of torture with sonics and fire but when he started fighting Carnage he clearly was barely standing. So it still was a fair fight. And other pictures are from Venom on trial. Venom clearly won that fight and it was fair too. In Carnage unlished they had a tie and in Venom and Carnage Venom won again, so i still say they were pretty equel then and Venom was victorious even more often and now after upgrade he is stronger.
People are just got used to directories where it's said Carnage is stronger than both combined but they clearly havn't updated their directories since Carnage's first appearance.

Perhaps you should pay more attention to the last page of that issue. Venom was too eager of his survival. Obviously he wasn't hurt too bad. Remember, symiboites can heal rapidly. Besides, Venom was fine and dandy in the next issue. There was absolutely no references of him being weakened by Carnage's torture on him.

Symbiotes heal instantly but not from sonics and fire, it takes them some time and Venom was tortured for hours. And when Carnage appeared Venom clearly was weak. Here is what happened after Venom fell on the ground. Look, he is still weak, i won't believe that he was weak for hours and then healed instantly in one moment. Besides it didn't seemed that Carnage had much trouble with focusing as well. And why sticking to maximum Carnage only? Venom still wins more often.

Originally posted by Sam Z
Symbiotes heal instantly but not from sonics and fire, it takes them some time and Venom was tortured for hours. And when Carnage appeared Venom clearly was weak. Here is what happened after Venom fell on the ground. Look, he is still weak, i won't believe that he was weak for hours and then healed instantly in one moment. Besides it didn't seemed that Carnage had much trouble with focusing as well. And why sticking to maximum Carnage only? Venom still wins more often.

So after all that Venom did on the next issue, you're basing Venom's suppose weakened state all on one stumble? He sure didn't have much of a problem keeping his balance while going after Carnage, and throwing a few jabs at Spider-Man everytime he intervened, now did he? I'm not sure what you saw, but Carnage had a difficult time trying to fight off Venom while also trying to keep himself mentally stable (even if the word stable is stretching it a bit for someone like Kletus Cassidy). I'm not sticking to maximum Carnage. The majority of the images you presented in the forum are scenes from Maximum Carnage. Besides the Venom on trial and Maximum Carnage, show us scenes from other comics that depict Venom dominating the battle field over Carnage.

Originally posted by Phoenix2001
So after all that Venom did on the next issue, you're basing Venom's suppose weakened state all on one stumble? He sure didn't have much of a problem keeping his balance while going after Carnage, and throwing a few jabs at Spider-Man everytime he intervened, now did he? I'm not sure what you saw, but Carnage had a difficult time trying to fight off Venom while also trying to keep himself mentally stable (even if the word stable is stretching it a bit for someone like Kletus Cassidy). I'm not sticking to maximum Carnage. The majority of the images you presented in the forum are scenes from Maximum Carnage. Besides the Venom on trial and Maximum Carnage, show us scenes from other comics that depict Venom dominating the battle field over Carnage.
Do you want every friggin time they encountered then? Carnage has beaten Venom approx. zero times Carnage was better on their first encounter. Every other time he has been beaten except for Venom Carnage which was one of the most poorly written series ever. Venom has beaten down carnage more then once in Maximum carnage series as well Carnage won because of shriek and all the others. Before Venom's upgrade Carnage might have been able to pick up more with upgrade no he can't. Venom is more powerful now

i actaully would not mind if the new handbook has venom class 50 or summin lyk that would be wikd but they are depowering nerds

Originally posted by Bocaj
Do you want every friggin time they encountered then?

I asked for Sam Z, or anyone else for that matter, to post a few scenes from various other titles of Venom defeating Carnage in a fair fight. But if Sam Z, or you, can present every encounter then that would be much better.

Originally posted by Bocaj
Carnage has beaten Venom approx. zero times Carnage was better on their first encounter. Every other time he has been beaten except for Venom Carnage which was one of the most poorly written series ever. Venom has beaten down carnage more then once in Maximum carnage series as well Carnage won because of shriek and all the others. Before Venom's upgrade Carnage might have been able to pick up more with upgrade no he can't. Venom is more powerful now

I think you are giving Venom too much credit. Venom had only overpowered Carnage once in Maximum Carnage, and Venom had a clear advantage over him. Any other encounter they had before then, Carnage was dominating Venom, whether Carnage's goons were involved or not. And on that note, the few times that Carnage was at the mercy of Venom was because of Firestar who first blasted off the symbiote with a beam of fire, and then almost killed him with a second beam. I would expect Venom III to now be the strongest version of Venom, but due to Carnage's absence in the last few years, there really shouldn't be any comparison between the two because nobody knows about the current activities, if any, about the Venom spawn.

Carnage is stronger, but Venom is more manuverable.

Originally posted by Phoenix2001
So after all that Venom did on the next issue, you're basing Venom's suppose weakened state all on one stumble? He sure didn't have much of a problem keeping his balance while going after Carnage, and throwing a few jabs at Spider-Man everytime he intervened, now did he? I'm not sure what you saw, but Carnage had a difficult time trying to fight off Venom while also trying to keep himself mentally stable (even if the word stable is stretching it a bit for someone like Kletus Cassidy). I'm not sticking to maximum Carnage. The majority of the images you presented in the forum are scenes from Maximum Carnage. Besides the Venom on trial and Maximum Carnage, show us scenes from other comics that depict Venom dominating the battle field over Carnage.

Yes, i do believe that Venom was weak since even after some time past after the torture he was weak as we see in that scan, so i don't believe that after hours of being weak he instantly healed in a moment. So he was weak and Carnage as much as his mind was damaged was pretty concentrated on Venom, he was running away, yes. But when he tried to attack several times his mind was clear.
As for scans, here you go.


Carnage unleashed, this is not really a fight, because they are fighting through the net with their tendrils. Tie.

2. And by the way it was the first time Venom used this trick ever so he had no experience in fighting through the net, unlike Carnage.

From Venom and Carnage, first appearance of Toxin, Venom protected host from Carnage, yes Carnage was hit by train but Venom clearly overpowers him.

Another pic from trial to make this more clear.

So basicly the ONLY time Carnage dominated over Venom was in Savage alliance, in his first appearance and since then people got used to that "stronger than both combined" thing, that's what majority thinks now about Toxin, that he is stronger than both Carnage and Venom combined, and that's false as well.

yo sam z

check this ..........official bio

http://www.marvel.com/universe/Venom_%28Eddie_Brock%29

and toxin is class 75 stronger than venom and carnage combined

http://www.marvel.com/universe/Toxin

Ankur, don't trust directories. Majority say that Venom is class11, i recently found site where it's said Carnage is class 80, so you see. And Toxin was beaten by Venom and Carnage and survived only thanks to spider-man and black cat so he is not stronger.

just cuz someone beats someone, dont make them stronger. better fighter maybe, but not stronger. someone might bench 200 while someone else benches 150. the 150 might kick the 200's ass, yet he aint stronger

I think for this to be resolved, we must go back and look at the old school cartoon, where clearly carnage kicked venom and spiderman's ass all over, but spiderman and venom together beat him. So.. Venom vs Carnage in a straight fight, Carnage would win because Venom too emo.

When ever Venom and Carnage fight Venom always wins, but it's not because he's stonger, It's because in any issue when they fight Venom is the hero (or anti-hero) and Carnage is the villain, and the hero always finds a way to win. So Carnage is stronger but will never stand victorious because of what he is and that is a villain!!!!

Originally posted by Neutro
I think for this to be resolved, we must go back and look at the old school cartoon, where clearly carnage kicked venom and spiderman's ass all over, but spiderman and venom together beat him. So.. Venom vs Carnage in a straight fight, Carnage would win because Venom too emo.

LOL I have that cartoon and even there Venom actually kicked Carnage a$$ twice. Well at first he beat Ironman, warmachine and Spider-man so i don't think you should take that cartoon as your source.

Originally posted by symbiosis
When ever Venom and Carnage fight Venom always wins, but it's not because he's stonger, It's because in any issue when they fight Venom is the hero (or anti-hero) and Carnage is the villain, and the hero always finds a way to win. So Carnage is stronger but will never stand victorious because of what he is and that is a villain!!!!

In Venom and Carnage Venom wasn't a hero...
And his way of winning is usually by brute strength so i don't think one must ignore that only because Venom was a hero.

Okay, the video game "Maximum Carnage" for Super NES. Carnage kicked my ass a lot until I bought a Game Genie.

Originally posted by Neutro
Okay, the video game "Maximum Carnage" for Super NES. Carnage kicked my ass a lot until I bought a Game Genie.

I give up.
He kicked my ass in that game as well

Okay, so it's proven. Carnage can kick Venom's ass unless Venom is super-cheat-code-induced.

Umm... I think i still prefere to go by the cartoon...

Originally posted by Sam Z
I give up.
He kicked my ass in that game as well

I played that game too, but I didnt need any cheats.
The game was not easy but I finished it without cheating.

Originally posted by Arahan
I played that game too, but I didnt need any cheats.
The game was not easy but I finished it without cheating.

I feel even worse now...

yeah but venom kicked Carnages ass in Ultimate Spiderman which is more up to date.

lol true.
But let's get back to comix Venom and Carnage, i believe scans above pretty much prove that Venom was equel to Carnage in strength before and now he became stronger so now it would be fair to assume he is stronger than Carnage.

Originally posted by Sam Z
lol true.
But let's get back to comix Venom and Carnage, i believe scans above pretty much prove that Venom was equel to Carnage in strength before and now he became stronger so now it would be fair to assume he is stronger than Carnage.

When did Venom become stronger? When was his power upgraded?

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=7221119
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=7221121
There.

that art looks great but spiderman and the fantastic four's size look extremely bogus

spidey was never that skinny

Originally posted by ankur29
that art looks great but spiderman and the fantastic four's size look extremely bogus

spidey was never that skinny

They always draw Peter Parker skinny but Spidey much more built.

ok i have the official handbook bios here anyways

venom ...................(from 2004 handbook)

http://img57.imageshack.us/img57/4272/venombiopl7.jpg

carnage....................(from 2004 handbook)

http://img219.imageshack.us/my.php?image=carnagepowerabilitiesofficialtd5.png


spidey bio.................

http://img57.imageshack.us/my.php?image=spideybio2005fs7.jpg

Well, you see? According to this info even Spider-man is stronger than Venom. And we all know it's not true. Facts remain, Venom before was a match for Carnage and even won majority of their fights and now he got an upgrade. Venom is stronger and respect thread under my signiture pretty much proves it.

i think venom has a nice fat percentage and all, but carnage is red.

then again... carnage is a loser in the cartoon series thing, a complete fool, and venom is a wuss for most of it.

i vote electro, for the worst costume ever.

Originally posted by Sam Z
Well, you see? According to this info even Spider-man is stronger than Venom. And we all know it's not true. Facts remain, Venom before was a match for Carnage and even won majority of their fights and now he got an upgrade. Venom is stronger and respect thread under my signiture pretty much proves it.

well that the spidey that got upgraded thats why , spidey is class 10 in that book

Originally posted by ankur29
well that the spidey that got upgraded thats why , spidey is class 10 in that book

I know Spidey is class 15 now or even more with iron suit but he is still not even close to Venom in strength, not even to original Venom. That bio makes no sense.

venom is actually class70- 80 ton class and he proves to be stronger than carnage in maximum carnage because wen he hits him it blows up and carny is symbiote dies but venom is hardly hurt

that was just so they could get rid of one of them. it's about carnage, and in the end, he's gotta die, you can't end his story line with venom or spidey dying and then leave.

but venom is better, he looks the part, and acts the part.

how spidey's bio should be in accounrt of the upgrades

venom is way stronger than carnage!

In the arc Venom vs Carnage, which is the last arc to feature them both, venom and carnage fight twice. The first fight carnage comes out victorious by throwing venom hundreds of yards into the river. The second fight venom wins by pushing carnage's face into the electrical rail. This is after all of the upgrades that venom has got over the pat few years. So the two symbiotes sound to be about the same strength.

no venom is waaaaaayyyyyyyyy stronger than carnage go on new stats venom is 70-80 tonns

and carnage is only 40 tonns

where are these new stats the last one i saw carnage was 35 tons and venom was almost 11 tons?????

got them from the venom code and carnage code club i forgot it now zoz i went on it ages ago

but your wright those venom11 tonn things was rubbish

o lisen if you go on venom stats he is mega strong

Originally posted by symbiosis
In the arc Venom vs Carnage, which is the last arc to feature them both, venom and carnage fight twice. The first fight carnage comes out victorious by throwing venom hundreds of yards into the river. The second fight venom wins by pushing carnage's face into the electrical rail. This is after all of the upgrades that venom has got over the pat few years. So the two symbiotes sound to be about the same strength.

When Carnage threw Venom into the reaver Venom was not even fighting, he was only trying to reason with Carnage and telling crap about father-son relationship, so i hardly can call that victory.
And one more thing, in Venom vs Carnage books Venom was not upgrated. This book had some strange changes. Authors forgot about Black Cat's fights with Venom and Carnage before, it seemd she meets him for the first time. And they also forgot some other things, including Venom being upgrated.

Where are all these stats coming from? They all sound like crap to me. I will agree that Carnage is stronger than Venom, but the two of them are so close in strength that it almost doesn't matter how much stronger either one is from the other. Too many stories depict both Venom and Carnage whopping each other's asses. It is ridiculous to state that either Venom or Carnage is above or even close to 25 tons.

Originally posted by Phoenix2001
Where are all these stats coming from? They all sound like crap to me. I will agree that Carnage is stronger than Venom, but the two of them are so close in strength that it almost doesn't matter how much stronger either one is from the other. Too many stories depict both Venom and Carnage whopping each other's asses. It is ridiculous to state that either Venom or Carnage is above or even close to 25 tons.

looks at the official bios below

Originally posted by ankur29
ok i have the official handbook bios here anyways

venom ...................(from 2004 handbook)

http://img57.imageshack.us/img57/4272/venombiopl7.jpg

carnage....................(from 2004 handbook)

http://img219.imageshack.us/my.php?image=carnagepowerabilitiesofficialtd5.png


spidey bio.................

http://img57.imageshack.us/my.php?image=spideybio2005fs7.jpg

Originally posted by ankur29
looks at the official bios below

And they are BS.
Both Carnage and Venom are above class 25.

Originally posted by Sam Z
And they are BS.
Both Carnage and Venom are above class 25.

They are BS, but I doubt either one of them are even in a class 20 range.

It doesn't feel right for either of them to be that strong.

Anyways...

How would you all rate the Maximum Carnage series?

I would probably give it an 8 out of 10

well venom's bio is BS ..........he shoudl be class 50 aswel

but carnage is definately class 50 and thats official!!!!!!!!!!

I'd give it 9/10 for MC

Maximum Carnage for me would probobly rate around 7 out 10 for me, don't get me wrong I loved the story, it had some issues kind of dragged on and i think that it could have been told in less issues.

I really liked the story 8/10 if not 9/10.

Carnage is way stronger then spider-man and venom combined! I never actually read any of the amazing spidermans but i heard about them and read it some where. Carnage is pretty cool but venom is WAY COOLER

Originally posted by spiderman/venom
Carnage is way stronger then spider-man and venom combined! I never actually read any of the amazing spidermans but i heard about them and read it some where. Carnage is pretty cool but venom is WAY COOLER

If Carnage is stronger, how does he always lose to Venom and Spidey?

Originally posted by spiderman/venom
Carnage is way stronger then spider-man and venom combined!...
Check scans on page 2 and 3...

Originally posted by Sam Z
Check scans on page 2 and 3...

Those are some good scans, let me rethink my position. hehe

MC was a good story. The ending was pretty cool i would give the series a 8/10

Originally posted by doctorstrongbad
If Carnage is stronger, how does he always lose to Venom and Spidey?

Because of poor writting, thats how. Marvel's writters now adays seem to overlook what has specifically been stated in the comics, and the Carnage being stronger is far from an isolated incident. Marvel tends to overlook alot of stuff.

its bad writing, remember,once spiderman beated firelord who was galactus araut, and spider didnt have the cosmic powers.

Originally posted by kiekan
Because of poor writting, thats how. Marvel's writters now adays seem to overlook what has specifically been stated in the comics, and the Carnage being stronger is far from an isolated incident. Marvel tends to overlook alot of stuff.
Man, Venom kicks his a$$ in 70% of their fights, you can't just blame everything on poor writing. Just because it's been stated in some directory (like 20 years ago) doesn't mean it's true. Lots of things have been stated. I even read that Namor is class 50 somewhere. They just don't uppdate their directories.

Originally posted by Sam Z
Man, Venom kicks his a$$ in 70% of their fights, you can't just blame everything on poor writing. Just because it's been stated in some directory (like 20 years ago) doesn't mean it's true. Lots of things have been stated. I even read that Namor is class 50 somewhere. They just don't uppdate their directories. carnage is stronger but after seeing venom fighting supes and juggernaut i dont know.

And namor is stronger than class 50.

Originally posted by xmeat
carnage is stronger but after seeing venom fighting supes and juggernaut i dont know.

And namor is stronger than class 50.
I know. That's the point - Don't trust directories. And Venom is stronger than Cassidy..

carnage of course

doh

personally i think Carnage is stronger well at least he was orginally throwing both spider-man and venom off of him with ease but take in mind that venom was still recovering from the birthing of carnage but still carnage is stronger the only way venom can beat him is too outsmart him. Speaking of bad writing did you know venom somehow miraculously bested superman in a fight yeah i've seen scans of it on the internet venom was qiite frankly whooping superman which is very bad writing imo.

oh whoops someone already mentioned the superman and venom fight. As for the juggernaught battle venom really got his butt kicked and he was just very durable in that fight. Also venom may actually be stronger then carnage because one of the issues of spiderman venom mentions that the sybiote will increase his strength the stronger he becomes phisically. But now venom is on marc gargan so his strength would be almost doubled with the scorpian super strength and that of the symbiotes strength.

Superman fight is a crossover, and crossovers are never written well. As for Juggernaut fight Venom was only beaten in the 1 fight, in 2 and 3 fights he had an upperhand. Venom had beatten Carnage before with brute strength only, and not by outsmarting him. Actually Carnage was only ONCE showed to be superior to Brock - in his first appearance. Scorpion-Venom sucks. He's weak and not durable. He got batten by a falling wall...

yah good point for the crossover thing. I can see what your saying about juggurnaught thing too but really i don't think juggernaught could have been beaten if the fight lasted longer. I've only read carnages first appearence so i wouldn't know but i plan on getting the maximum carnage series soon. As for scorpian venom I haven't read any comics with him in it but Scorpian was one of my fave villains and so is venom so i figured it would be a good blend but apparently its not. The only reason i was speculating about his strength and durablity was from my prior knowledge of symbiotes

Originally posted by carnageandvenom
yah good point for the crossover thing. I can see what your saying about juggurnaught thing too but really i don't think juggernaught could have been beaten if the fight lasted longer. I've only read carnages first appearence so i wouldn't know but i plan on getting the maximum carnage series soon. As for scorpian venom I haven't read any comics with him in it but Scorpian was one of my fave villains and so is venom so i figured it would be a good blend but apparently its not. The only reason i was speculating about his strength and durablity was from my prior knowledge of symbiotes
Agreed. There's no way to take down Juggs with physical attacks. I just like the fact that Venom did GOOD against such powerhouse.
IMO Scorpion doesn't need the symbiote to be an awesome villain, original Scorp was way cooler. maximum carnag are great series, if you're interrested in more Carnage-Venom fights I suggest you to read "Venom on trial" and "Carnage unleashed".

Thanks i'll look thoose up out of curiousity is the Venom vs. Carnage series any good?

Well, not really. I personally didn't like the art and it's written bad.
For example authors forgot that Black Cat fought Venom in Max Carnage and they both act as if they met for the first time.
Weird...

Originally posted by Sam Z
Well, not really. I personally didn't like the art and it's written bad.
For example authors forgot that Black Cat fought Venom in Max Carnage and they both act as if they met for the first time.
Weird...

Not just maximum Carnage Venom fought Black Cat after he first broke out of the Vault when he was searching for Peter.

I also didn't like the venom vs Carnage story it seemed to have Venom want to kill Black Cat just because, when he has morals about killing certain people. Also it seemed that the symbiotes had taken over over Eddie and Cletus when before they just kind of worked together, also hated the artwork.

Carnage. I wouldve thought had known by now, considering it took both Venom AND Spidey and a lot of other guys to take him down.

I still like Venom more, though.

Originally posted by Spartan ll
Carnage. I wouldve thought had known by now, considering it took both Venom AND Spidey and a lot of other guys to take him down.

I still like Venom more, though.

The spawn is always stronger than the host.

Venom < Carnage < Toxin

Toxin =

Originally posted by Sam Z
Toxin =

He is the strongest one, until he has a spawn. dum dum dum

Originally posted by doctorstrongbad
He is the strongest one, until he has a spawn. dum dum dum

He yet have to fight Venom one on one.
Oh and I still say Carnage is way cooler than Toxin.