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As I was sitting there smoking hookah that was coincidentally mixed with absinthe, I constructed another theory. I don't know if anyone's thought about this but I personally marveled at its genius. Anyways, you know how there are certain rumors that Plagueis created Anakin? Well how about this one. Could it be POSSIBLE that Plagueis created Sidious? Lets think about this for a second. From what we know and have seen, it's more than likely that Sidious had the most force potential of ANY sith(with the exception of Ragnos but that's more of an opinion than anything else). Is it POSSIBLE that Sidious was the Sith'ari? Is it possible that Plagueis created Sidious, and as a result the force itself created the chosen one to bring balance to itself? I think it's an interesting theory actually. You have the Sith'ari created through dark side magic, and you have the chosen one to counter the sith'ari created by the force. So you have the sith prophecies and Jedi prophecies coming together at once.. I'd like to know what you guys think.

I'd much rather have that than Plagueis making Anakin.

Originally posted by Darth Sexy
Is it POSSIBLE that Sidious was the Sith'ari?

Isn't the Sith'ari the one who's also suppose to destroy the Sith?

No, I think the Sith'ari is the chosen one for the Sith. Basically he destroys all the Jedi and ensures the sith rule the galaxy. What Sidious did.

Quote, source? I'm not saying it's untrue or anything, as I really don't have a clue. I'm just reading off of Wookiepedia, given there's not really much that I have at hand that talks about it.

Then again, it's not as if Wookiepedia is reliable...

The Sith'ari was said to be a perfect being who would destroy the Sith and bring the Force back into balance, blah, blah, blah. Sidious kinda STRENGTHENED the Sith, but it was the Force who created the Sith'ari to get rid of him.

Then it was my mistake, I didn't mean to call Sidious the Sith'ari. He's basically the opposite of the chosen one for the Jedi. Anyways guys think about this theory, as I believe it has some, if not a lot of validity to it. It would explain a whole lot, including Sidious' actual force potential and what not.

Adas is the greatest Sith'ari.

^

A simple "No" shall do good enough: No.

In any case, I'm not sure Palpatine isn't a f*cking liar on Plagueis anyways. I took this from the script after someone brought it up:

PALPATINE: I thought not. It's not a story the Jedi would tell you. It's a Sith legend. Darth Plagueis was a Dark Lord of the Sith, so powerful and so wise he could use the Force to influence the midi-chlorians to create life ... He had such a knowledge of the dark side that he could even keep the ones he cared about from dying.

(next)

PALPATINE: He became so powerful . . . the only thing he was afraid of was losing his power, which eventually, of course, he did. Unfortunately, he taught his apprentice everything he knew, then his apprentice killed him in his sleep

(later)

PALPATINE: My mentor taught me everything about the Force . . . even the nature of the dark side.

(later)

PALPATINE: To cheat death is a power only one has achieved, but if we work together, I know we can discover the secret.

Palpatine contradicts himself by claiming Plagueis taught him "everything", yet later on he says that he doesn't know the secret. You could say that Plagueis only taught him the basics perhaps. But, that wouldn't correlate to "everything", and it also wouldn't give Palpatine a reason to kill his master if he didn't teach him "the only power one has acheived".

Or you could argue that he said that last line to trick Anakin, but again I don't know how it would still make sense, because he'd already told Anakin he knew "everything". But again, that could also be turned into "Well, Palpatine is a liar on the subject, so why trust him if he was trying to deceive Anakin anyways?".

Indeed.

Ok Sama but why is it not possible that Plagueis created Sidious and told him about the technique. When he decided not to teach it to Sidious, Sidious killed him. It makes sense and if you think outside the box in terms of the star wars galaxy and all the prophecies, I really think this is as close as it gets.

Shut it td!

Originally posted by Darth Sexy
Ok Sama but why is it not possible that Plagueis created Sidious and told him about the technique. When he decided not to teach it to Sidious, Sidious killed him.

What I'm saying is that we don't even know if Sidious is being truthful or not. He has contradicted three statements by his words to Anakin later.

Firstly, it's entirely possible he just said all of that stuff in an elaborate ruse to trick Anakin, because Padme was his weak spot. Secondly, if he didn't teach it to Sidious - why does Sidious say he did on two occasions? That would lead one to believe Palpatine might just have made that stuff up. Thirdly, no one is denying that it's not possible that he did create Sidious. But, uh, why? I address a lot of this below.



Well, if you do think about it outside of Star Wars terms, and such - I, personally, wouldn't believe in stuff about a preordained destiny, which basically is what that'd have to be. So, Sidious was created by Plagueis for whatever reason, and the Force then creates Anakin because of that? Your original theory needs Sidious to be the Sith'ari, which - apparently - he cannot be. The only viable explanation is that Sidious was going to become too damn powerful, and the Force had to bring balance itself by creating Anakin to save itself in the future.

It's basically what you're saying, minus the Sith'ari crap. But then it'd beg question as to why Plagueis would create Sidious. One answer could be so as the Sith could succeed. Sidious would annihilate the Jedi with his overpowered and manipulated Force potential/power or whatever, and together they would rule the galaxy. Meaning that Plagueis would create Sidious for personal gain basically.

However, why the hell would he want someone else - that would become stronger than himself - to rule alongside side him? I highly doubt Plagueis really wanted to be killed later on; as it doesn't make sense to create some just so they could kill you, as that's the way of the Sith. Strongest rules.

Check out this quote from RODV:

"How many years would he have had to search for an apprentice even half as powerful in the Force, let alone one created by the Force itself to restore balance, by allowing the dark side to percolate fully to the surface after a millennium of being stifled?

None would be found."

-- Dark Lord: The Rise of Darth Vader, page 133.

Now, that's quote referring to Sidious' thoughts (emphasis he). So, obviously, we have Sidious thinking he needs to find a new apprentice, and he says specifically "let alone one created by the Force". This - to me at least - seems to indicate that Sidious himself, indeed, was not created through the Force. Okay, and the next line says in RODV does say this:

"Sidious would have had to discover a way to compel midichlorians to do his bidding, and bring into being one as powerful as Anakin."

I'm fairly certain Sidious was not created by the Force, or manipulation of such - because if he were, he should've been close to Anakin in potential. That's only taking the premise that Anakin was created by Plagueis through the Force, thus having such a powerful potential. And turning it around, and saying that Sidious was created through the Force by Plagueis, so he should've been near Anakin in potential. If post-suit Vader is 80% of Sidious's power (Lucas), and here's just a guess - 50% of his Force potential was lost at Mustafar, then Sidious isn't even close to Anakin's true potential.

The source for that "guesstimate" - I don't really have it, lol. I'm going by the words of the unreliable ESB Vader, and the fact Anakin did lose half his friggin' body. If I can find the source for that 50% bit - I'll let you know, but let's just assume that. Anyways, there's also the fact that there has been absolutely no mention of it. That doesn't mean it cannot be, but it's odd that such a detail wouldn't even be so much as implied, you know what I mean? As it was with Anakin.

I do believe George Lucas has left the fans in the dark, and did state that he did do that on purpose. Honestly, nothing is more valid than another theory. There are a few missing holes in the Plagueis creating Anakin, as well. But really, there's nothing we can actually state to be completely true, or just "most likely" because we just don't know. A lot of stuff is just friggin' possibility. The Plagueis novel, which is going to be released in 2008 I think (is that right?) will probably shed light on the subject. I do highly doubt that Sidious was created through the Force however. It just doesn't seem like it'd happen.

Very good post Sama, good read. A lot of interesting stuff, but let me add one more. Lets say Plagueis DID create Sidious and the force DID create Anakin. Wouldn't it make perfect sense that the son of the force itself would have more force potential than someone who was created through the force yes, but not by the force itself(if that makes any sense). I just had a perfect analogy and then lost it but I think you know what I'm saying. Plagueis altering and creating midichlorians is no match for the force itself creating a perfect being. I guess the 5th element is a good example? And again lets take into account that if Plagueis did indeed create the perfect Sith in Sidious, the force would create the perfect Jedi to combat that. Again, I guess the 5th element is a good example? I don't know, tired.

Well, I'll respond tomorrow, when I think on the subject, but I do have to give you props on thinking up this theory. It's actually original, and can make sense. Of course, with everything - there's holes in it only because there's things we do not know yet, but good nonetheless.

For now, though, just a general question: I'd really just like to know how exactly the Force was "brought to balance"? By destroying Sidious? It's the obvious choice, but how does that bring back balance? I'm sure it's explained somewhere, or a good theory was given, but I don't feel like looking around, lol.

I was under the assumption that bringing balance to the force meant eradicating the sith.

Yup, that's it.

Ok guys I have another example while its still fresh in my head. Keep in mind that it is still early in the morning so some of my words might get tangled up. Anyways here goes.

It is very possible and likely that Plagueis created Sidious even though Sidious isn't as powerful as Anakin, and here's why. You all will agree with me that human beings, animals, and ANY living beings are NOT perfect right? Ok moving on. In the star wars galaxy, the Force is pretty much "God", and God is perfect, I don't think there can be any argument about that. Good is omniscient, omnipotent, infallible, etc. Anyways, lets assume that at the very best, Darth Plagueis is the closest to perfection any force user can come to, and his creation was Sidious. Now because he created Sidious by manipulating the midichlorians within the force, Sidious also is as close to perfect as can get, but neither him nor Plagueis ARE perfect because they are living beings and living beings are normally not perfect. NOW.. Anakin was created by the force, by God himself basically, so technically Anakin IS perfect because he was created by God who is perfect. I mean you can compare him to Jesus or whatever. Anyways that kinda explains how Plagueis could have created Sidious and the force could create Anakin, and why Anakin is more powerful than Sidious, while they were both technically created by the force.

Originally posted by Darth Sexy
As I was sitting there smoking hookah that was coincidentally mixed with absinthe, I constructed another theory. I don't know if anyone's thought about this but I personally marveled at its genius. Anyways, you know how there are certain rumors that Plagueis created Anakin? Well how about this one. Could it be POSSIBLE that Plagueis created Sidious? Lets think about this for a second. From what we know and have seen, it's more than likely that Sidious had the most force potential of ANY sith(with the exception of Ragnos but that's more of an opinion than anything else). Is it POSSIBLE that Sidious was the Sith'ari? Is it possible that Plagueis created Sidious, and as a result the force itself created the chosen one to bring balance to itself? I think it's an interesting theory actually. You have the Sith'ari created through dark side magic, and you have the chosen one to counter the sith'ari created by the force. So you have the sith prophecies and Jedi prophecies coming together at once.. I'd like to know what you guys think.

You smoke?


That theory sounds plausible

Anyway, I didn't bother to read your second theory. First one's fine with me

Also, with that balance to the Force and destroying the Sith, with Darth Sexy's theory, Anakin is more powerful so he CAN destroy the Sith. We must wait for the Darth Plagueis novel to come out though to find out

Lay off the hookah and absinthe.

Plagueis created Anakin, if that is indeed how this all runs...

Sidious was alive when Plagueis apparently discovered the secret power, as read in the New Chronology...

Show me where Sidious was alive when Plagueis figured out this ability, because I myself find this theory very logical.

Originally posted by Darth Sexy
It is very possible and likely that Plagueis created Sidious even though Sidious isn't as powerful as Anakin, and here's why. You all will agree with me that human beings, animals, and ANY living beings are NOT perfect right? Ok moving on. In the star wars galaxy, the Force is pretty much "God", and God is perfect, I don't think there can be any argument about that. Good is omniscient, omnipotent, infallible, etc. Anyways, lets assume that at the very best, Darth Plagueis is the closest to perfection any force user can come to, and his creation was Sidious. Now because he created Sidious by manipulating the midichlorians within the force, Sidious also is as close to perfect as can get, but neither him nor Plagueis ARE perfect because they are living beings and living beings are normally not perfect. NOW.. Anakin was created by the force, by God himself basically, so technically Anakin IS perfect because he was created by God who is perfect. I mean you can compare him to Jesus or whatever. Anyways that kinda explains how Plagueis could have created Sidious and the force could create Anakin, and why Anakin is more powerful than Sidious, while they were both technically created by the force.

Actually, in the New Essential Chronology it states this specifically:

"The child that resulted from this Force miracle, Plagueis insisted, would be the living embodiment of the Force itself - and at that moment, Sidious knew his master was discussing his replacement." - NEC, page 32.

It goes on further to state that that is the reason Palpatine killed Plagueis. So, if what Plagueis "insists" is true, and that it would be like the living embodiment of the Force, then I fail to see how even being created out of the Force would make you so much stronger, let alone just a little. Anakin's potential is lightyears away from Sidious' own. That does not make sense, even if you take the theory above, because he could manipulate midi-chlorians. That quote kind of turns down your theory for those reasons, and this also hints that Sidious was not born from the Force, because why would Plagueis want to create another? He really wouldn't. So, you're theory now would beg question as to why? Why a "replacement" if you already have what you wanted?And, the next line after says this:

"The work necessary to create a Force-conceived child continued, however. It is unclear whether Plagueis had initiated the process before his death..." - NEC, page 32.

I don't know how to explain this line clearly, or what point it'd make. But it's kind of hinting at the fact that they didn't complete the process yet, which would throw Sidious' orchestrated birth out the window. It's pretty obvious Plaguies did not create Sidious, at least in my views, though that line is pretty irrelevant, lol, I don't know why I have it up there. But here we go:

"His murder on his own master, Darth Plagueis. The role that the Sith hadplayed in creating Anakin by manipulating midi-chlorians". - NEC, page 82.

So, as it would seem, the Sith did create Anakin by manipulating midi-chlorians, so that mean if Sidious was created, he'd be as strong. And it also means that the Force didn't conceive Anakin, which throws your entire theorium out the window. It also adds to the fact that Sidious' own potential wasn't nearly as strong as Anakin's, which - if he was created by Plagueis - it would've (keep in mind, I'm just discussing the "what if" Palpatine was made). Okay, and the next line is about the time frame of Sidious' apprenticeship:

"It is unclear how Palpatine fell under the mentorship of the Sith Lord Darth Plagueis." - NEC, page 32.

Now, while that line doesn't say much, or actually answer anything. The date does. It is listed under 52 BBY to 46 BBY, which can be found on page 32 of the New Essential Chronology. So, we know it was in that time frame that Sidious came to apprenticeship, and Sidious was already in his thirties at that time, possibly early to mid thirties (born 82 BBY) - so we can infer that Sidious was not created by Plagueis.

Originally posted by Council#13
Also, with that balance to the Force and destroying the Sith, with Darth Sexy's theory, Anakin is more powerful so he CAN destroy the Sith. We must wait for the Darth Plagueis novel to come out though to find out

Except, according to Plagueis - the only authority we have on the subject - the one created by "this Force miracle would be the living embodiment of the Force itself". And for that little Anakin explaination to be correct, you'd have to take in the fact the Force is omnipotent, and would know what happens. Anakin ended up not being as powerful as Sidious. So, "power" has nothing to do with it really.

Well mother ****er. I thought it was a logical theory anyway, it made perfect sense.

Originally posted by Advent
Except, according to Plagueis - the only authority we have on the subject - the one created by "this Force miracle would be the living embodiment of the Force itself". And for that little Anakin explaination to be correct, you'd have to take in the fact the Force is omnipotent, and would know what happens. Anakin ended up not being as powerful as Sidious. So, "power" has nothing to do with it really.
Yea but he DID fulfill the prophecy, so the Force, like God, works in mysterious ways.

Yeah, it did make somewhat sense honestly. More sense that Plagueis creating Anakin, as it actually has meaning. Then again, Star Wars doesn't have to make sense, it just has to make money for Lucas, m i rite?

Originally posted by Darth Sexy
Yea but he DID fulfill the prophecy, so the Force, like God, works in mysterious ways.

But again, Anakin didn't need to be more powerful. That's what I'm talking about. If Anakin was created to be "more powerful so he CAN destroy the Sith", he ended up not be as powerful - so power didn't matter too much.

I suppose. Well like I said it was just a theory that I thought would have made perfect sense and explained a lot of the loopholes in the storyline. I need to get me the NEC.