The theme of changing..or PERISHING (Spoilers)

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LovelyOne
Beckett's line about "pirates like Jack will perish if they dont change with the new world (revolution)" is quite true. In my opinion he means pirates as in cowards..they are cowards because they think only of themselves in times of danger..they will flee..and will fizzle out as a whole.

The only brave men in war are the ones who are fighting for those they love...the cowards are the ones who only care about themselves and their material possessions..and they flee..and often die straight away..this is why Jack needs Elizabeth in his life if he is ever going to survive in the future...

..Beckett basically says that he will need to change or die because revolution is coming and the change needed is obvious in movie 2..the change in his life is Elizabeth and love and the bravery he shows when it comes to protecting the one he loves

The Kraken and Liz was a wakeup call for him..he needed that moment where he was willing to die for Elizabeth He's done it once..he will DO it in the furure Smile He'll fight and he wont perish as long as he has her IN HIS LIFE..She is the change jack needs!

sailorleo
um....the revolution happens in the 1700s isn't still like 1680ish?

LovelyOne

willofthewisp
I was with you up until then, LovelyOne, lol.
Yes, sailor, the American Revolution, started 4 July, 1776, so we're about, what, 70 years ahead of then? I think POTC takes place at the beginning of the 1700s, just because of the clothes and all. I could totally wrong. But let's say I'm right. 70 years is a short amount of time for as many changes took place in the Americas during that time. It was constantly changing with new people, new laws, discoveries. Beckett is saying pirates don't really fit into the changing world. They need to adapt or be weeded out.
Yeah, I agree that Beckett makes one too many comments on how he actually did Will and Liz a favor by breaking up their wedding. We'll see if he just likes to taunt and be self-righteous (my theory) or that he had a hand in more than we know.

sailorleo
no it's the late sixteen hundreds remember the hole storm destroying port royal

mmoviejunkie
are you sure he was talking about the american revolution?

willofthewisp
so we're talking 1690s? That still, historically speaking, isn't a lot of time, and a lot was going on. Colonists were already beginning to rethink if being tied to England was such a great idea, Native Americans were being moved around and killed and fighting back, all kinds of inventions and influential people were coming about. It was an exciting time, and it just seems to Beckett that pirates do things the "old school" way and they don't belong.

mmoviejunkie
but port royal is in jamaica, what does that have to do with america??

katelovespirate
it was all involved in british imperialism and the EITC ruining multiple continents... im having this "heart of darkness" moment...

this was late 1600s, they dont specify a date, but its like 1680s or so.

Jamaica was also a British colony. But most of the Caribbean were Spanish colonies.

LovelyOne, your theory is BRILLIANT> this is such a great, simple yet effective argument... ITS SO TRUE!

If we are meant to take ANYTHING Beckett says seriously, then i think thats a huge hint for a jack/liz relationship, and especially the fact that whatever happens to liz/will... their relationship CANNOT continue the way it was.

and i still think its possible that Beckett had a deal with someone prior to 2.

LovelyOne
and thanks lol

I shook the peeps up at KTTC.com

I said..this means that the way they are by movie 1 CANT be the same by movie 3 or they will DIE and perish off the face of the earth!..So Will/Liz together NO..Jack the way he used to be? NO obvious answer anyone??

SERIOUSLY..jack leaving on the pearl his old and materialistic pirate self?? YEAH RIGHT that would be STUPID to suggest since the time of piracy is drawing to a close.. and he needs a new life..a new kind of life! or he will DIE ..and its going to be loving Elizabeth i bet you!!..he needs a new way to turn..and Liz is the answer. the new kind of life is being with someone else to love..and its clear whi he has his eye on in movie 2 laughing out loud

Will's change he needs is obviously his father

and Liz's change she needs is obviously Jack

ivebeendepped43
obviously!

katelovespirate
yeah i think will's change will definately have to do with finally getting his past squared away and tied up. He has been hanging on news of his father cause he needed a father figure in his life, and now suddenly, here's a chance for him to step up and save his father, prove to himself that he can get something right, and prove to the world he is more than an orphan blacksmith.

Liz's character is just shifting farther and farther from corset girl, (wedding dress sinking) and i think we are going to see her mature a lot too. she also makes very impulsive choices and seems to be governed chiefly by her emotions and passions. I think we will see her more in control of herself, and making more informed decisions. This will help her as she continues to grow as a pirate. She's becomin more and more like Jack, IMO. she's going to be a legend like him--- i think that's what she wants. to live up to Jack's example and help him live up to his own.

ivebeendepped43
lol corset girl. sry, i found that funny

LovelyOne
LOL i just TOTALLY beat this one persistent girl!

the argument of the bittersweet ending that the directors are talking about laughing out loud

its more than obvious: I've been saying it since the very first time I saw movie 2

Jack cant have his pirate life but he can have the one thing that makes him happy (love)

Will cant have Elizabeth but he has the one thing he wanted since before he even met her His father

Elizabeth cant have Will but she has the one thing she's been wanting since before she even met Will..a PIRATE laughing out loud

ivebeendepped43
u guys r so great at this J/L stuff

willofthewisp
Thanks, Kate, for bringing up British Imperialism. I couldn't remember the term, just that England had its nose in almost all of the western hemisphere during that time.
Yes, a huge theme in the movies is change, and we've already seen how Jack changes along with the rest of the characters. Hopefully they'll all make more informed decisions. It's not just Liz that seems to struggle with that.

katelovespirate
Originally posted by LovelyOne
LOL i just TOTALLY beat this one persistent girl!

the argument of the bittersweet ending that the directors are talking about laughing out loud

its more than obvious: I've been saying it since the very first time I saw movie 2

Jack cant have his pirate life but he can have the one thing that makes him happy (love)

Will cant have Elizabeth but he has the one thing he wanted since before he even met her His father

Elizabeth cant have Will but she has the one thing she's been wanting since before she even met Will..a PIRATE laughing out loud


this is a fabulous theory. i love it.
to make the ending bittersweet, the chips are either going to fall the way you just said, or the opposite- jack gets to stay a pirate, will and liz stay together but will loses daddy... that ending would suck, gosh. yours had better be right. smile

LovelyOne
AHA! lol but it seems as if Jack will DIE if he remains a pirate laughing out loud..and the audience dont want that no no laughing out loud

and the immortality thing?? Is basically death..so he wont be choosing that laughing out loud The audience wont like big grin

katelovespirate
ooooo maybe they will pull an indiana jones and give him immortality at the end, randomly. that would be sort of wierd.

i still think Jack will remain a pirate... he will just have to change a bit. my life will be over if Captain Jack is no longer a pirate.

blackpearl44
There is no way they could keep playing on the Captain Jack character if he wasn't a pirate....

LovelyOne
this is what makes me think that PotC 4 will be a prequel..because what happened in history suggests that the age of pirates drew to a close when the EITC appeared

And They have added them into to DMC..so Jack will have to give up that life or perish..and I don't think a story can continue past this point with PotC4

So PotC4 will be a prequel me thinks..which would be more interesting to watch IMO...we see that Jack was once a brave man..now that Liz is in his life we have had a glimpse of the old Jack Sparrow..I want to see MORE of that past hotness!

I doubt Jack will change his appearance etc..but I don't think he will be a pirate..otherwise he will die at the hands of the EITC..He will just accept to move on in the new world and at the very end..possibly be with Elizabeth..probably on the ocean because they both love it...they will be free as birds...big grin.

katelovespirate
so are you saying the EITC is going to win??? (bites nails nervously) this is so intense.

i also want to see more past hotness. lol.

LovelyOne
yes the EITC did overtake I think and if jack remains like he is he would probably be hunted and killed..

putting them in and not having them win is basically saying the Titanic didnt sink at the end of the movie

thats why Its probably going to be bittersweet..they will lose but will gain what they want most in life..especially Jack

Jack may say its immortality he wants in movie 3..but its been more than obvious since movie 1 what it really is he wants..love, love LOOOVVVEEE big grin

LovelyOne
he's starting to letgo of material things for a girl. He would probably do the same with Imortaltiy

all for Lizzie!

remember in titanic..Kal seemes like an OK guy who loved his lady..but as soon as she started to break fee and go after what she wanted.Kal was willing to kill them both because he coulcnr get his own way..Will is going to do the same IMO

willofthewisp
Wow, I never thought he was an okay guy. As soon as he ordered her food for her without even asking what she wanted....red flag. But that's beside the point.

Hmm, the EITC winning? Just because the age of pirates has ended doesn't mean there aren't still pirates. Say what you want about Jack, he can adapt to new situations and surroundings and still maintain his freedom. Like you said, he'll probably sail away free as a bird, but wouldn't it make him even more of an outlaw to stay a pirate? I think it would.

LovelyOne
yes I agree with you^^ but because he loves someone he wont be putting her in danger..so that side of his life will be over I think..the selfish (pirate) side of movie 1 and early movie 2..which is safer for him and Elizabeth..you just KNOW everyone loved looking at the hint of hero Jack instead of a pirate at the end of movie 2..made me all fuzzy inside..

he'll still be our loveable rogue

just like spike was still the loveable bad boy vampire..but he was a vampire with a soul..and he was a better man when it came to ending up with Buffy.

Ordering Liz to stay with the chest was a bit of a red flag with me too! Leaving Liz instead of actually breaking her out was a bit of a red flag aswell..

LovelyOne
I have to say would you like it ending knowing the EITC (the scourge of piracy) have won and Jack is still a pirate?? It's certain death marked on him..and that isn't going to satisfy the audience in the end..knowing he's not safe and happy

but if he ends it where he is still a free spirit but has a reason not to be a pirate now ..that means he is safer in the long run..which is much more satisfying.

When I say he wont be pirate..I mean the things that pirates do..the dishonest side of life..the illegal things..I don't think he is going to stick with that side of life in movie 3..he's going to end it a captain and a hero..IMO

katelovespirate
hmmmm... i dont know what i think about that.

i guess its true that in some ways the pirates are going to have to lose... but i still think they will be triumphant in some ways. i think beckett will be killed, and perhaps they will form some sort of arrangement/understanding with someone in power...

i just had a terrible thought. what if Gibbs died?!?~?!~ i would leave. that would be worse than will dying or something. gosh.

LovelyOne
Originally posted by katelovespirate
hmmmm... i don't know what i think about that.

i guess its true that in some ways the pirates are going to have to lose... but i still think they will be triumphant in some ways. i think beckett will be killed, and perhaps they will form some sort of arrangement/understanding with someone in power...

i just had a terrible thought. what if Gibbs died?!?~?!~ i would leave. that would be worse than will dying or something. gosh.

what did you prefer to see at the end of movie 2

Jack escaping like a coward that he used to be in movie 1

or going down like a hero?

You gotta admit that was the moment where Jack came BACK...its who he really is in my opinion..the pirate he is in movie 1 and early 2 Isn't the real him IMO. Its a fake cover up for something he is hiding from in life..the pirate life is just an excuse to not care for people..why embrace a life where you don't have responsibility for other peoples safety? What happened to you in the past Jack? sad....we are gonna find out I think..

and that is gonna make people want him to get Liz all the more..the chance for him to overcome his haunting past..and finally move on in life and be who he always was in his heart.

katelovespirate
oh i was not disagreeing with you about Jack becoming more heroic--- thats hott, and should happen.
i just mean, i still think he will refuse to live in society, and refuse to follow the laws that he doesnt like. thats part of who he is-- he sort of lives in his own reality, makes up his own rules. that doesnt mean he wont develope and become more heroic and noble--- i think his cause, what he is fighting for, will become more apparent and make his breaking the rules seem more logical and noble.

LovelyOne
I think he was like that anyway..disliking society (which Liz is infact not comfortable with either PEAS IN A POD LUV) lol.his brave act was not working for society..it was saving the 99 slaves..smile And working against society.

katelovespirate
jack is so flipping hott.

i think he's way more self-sacrificing than we expect him to be... which sort of scares me... what will he give up on behalf of others?

i know i know im always being negative lol... i guess its just my imagination's limitations...

LovelyOne
Originally posted by katelovespirate
jack is so flipping hott.

i think he's way more self-sacrificing than we expect him to be... which sort of scares me... what will he give up on behalf of others?

i know i know im always being negative lol... i guess its just my imagination's limitations...
He's going to give up imortality (form of death) to save elizabeth smile *warm and fuzzy*

they cant kill the dog..its in one of their rules of script writing..i know one of them was feel "free to disagree"..but they wont do that again..they only did it once becuase he is going to come back (dog at the end)

willofthewisp
It's not negative to realize he's more sacrificing than we think.

I understand about Gibbs, too, Kate, and I don't want him to go either. He's the dad of the group, and he's just so cool.

katelovespirate
Originally posted by willofthewisp
It's not negative to realize he's more sacrificing than we think.

I understand about Gibbs, too, Kate, and I don't want him to go either. He's the dad of the group, and he's just so cool.

lol i just dont want him to be too heroic and like, give up liz to will, when liz really wants HIM ya know???

willofthewisp
Liz would never stand for that. She would run back to him and jump in his arms.

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