Click HERE to see this thread with all of the graphics, features, and links.

WHo takes this fight?

MOrdru the premier Lord of Chaos in the DCU or Odin, The sky father favored In the MU.

Depends where the battle takes place, if it's outside of Asgard Mordu will slaughter his ass, but in Asgard where Odin can call upon more magic/cosmic energy it will be in Odin favor plus he has the Odin force.

Mordu wins 10/10 outside of Asgard

Odin 6.5/10 in Asgard

Originally posted by the Darkone
Depends where the battle takes place, if it's outside of Asgard Mordu will slaughter his ass, but in Asgard where Odin can call upon more magic/cosmic energy it will be in Odin favor plus he has the Odin force.

Mordu wins 10/10 outside of Asgard

Odin 6.5/10 in Asgard

By far, Odin's biggest feats are outside Asgard.

MOrdru is abstract.

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
MOrdru is abstract. The why make the thread if you think he's an abstract?
And no he's not an abstract. I thought we went over this when you called PC Supes an abstract?

Originally posted by bigbran
The why make the thread if you think he's an abstract?
And no he's not an abstract. I thought we went over this when you called PC Supes an abstract?

MOrdru is a being with no beginning and no end. He is an abstract. have you read any book with mordru in them before you say such things? or is this going off what it means to be abstract in marvel? And I made the thread becuz many on this forum seem to think that odin is beyond all other sky father's ever. So i had to come up with a worthy opponent who wouldn't out class him.

Do you have any idea in the JSa comics what it takes for them to stop Mordu every time?

I'll give you a hint, someone on the team useually dies doing it.

Originally posted by David_Richards
Do you have any idea in the JSa comics what it takes for them to stop Mordu every time?

I'll give you a hint, someone on the team useually dies doing it.

I know how powerful MOrdru is. But unfortunately no one else does. So i kind have to lower his opponents from the other side. If I had him fighting someone higher like a marvel abstract, all hell would break lose. I'm just trying to work with in the confines of people's knowlege of the characters from DC.

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
MOrdru is a being with no beginning and no end. He is an abstract. have you read any book with mordru in them before you say such things? or is this going off what it means to be abstract in marvel? And I made the thread becuz many on this forum seem to think that odin is beyond all other sky father's ever. So i had to come up with a worthy opponent who wouldn't out class him. To be an abstract, he actually has to represent something.
And show me something, that would put him on the level of an Abstract.
And you just admitted that you made a spite thread.

Originally posted by bigbran
To be an abstract, he actually has to represent something.
And show me something, that would put him on the level of an Abstract.
And you just admitted that you made a spite thread.
NO I didnt' you idiot. I just admitted that I tried to find the closet being in power to Odin that I could. Every one who talks up Odin says he's the best sky father around. So who the hell else can you put him against? And Mordru is an abstract. His description says that he is a being without a begining or and end. He will survive the 4th world into the 5th. He is also the Premier lord of chaos. He went around killing the Lords of Order and absorbing thier power.

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
NO I didnt' you idiot. So did I also call you an idiot?
And you admitted, that he was an abstract, which would pretty much make it an overkill.Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
I just admitted that I tried to find the closet being in power to Odin that I could. So an abstract, is the closest thing in power, to Odin? Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
Every one who talks up Odin says he's the best sky father around. He pretty much is. Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
So who the hell else can you put him against? Highfather? But definately not an abstract!! Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
And Mordru is an abstract. Glad that's out of the way. Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
His description says that he is a being without a begining or and end. You know how many people have that, about themselves?Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
He will survive the 4th world into the 5th. And... this makes him an abstract? Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
He is also the Premier lord of chaos. He went around killing the Lords of Order and absorbing thier power. No abstract, goes around, and kills people. He may be on an abstract power level, but he's not an abstract.
Even then, you have also claimed PC Supes, to be an abstract. So...ya.

P.S. All of my above statements, are me playing along to your abstract claim.

Originally posted by bigbran
So did I also call you an idiot?
And you admitted, that he was an abstract, which would pretty much make it an overkill. So an abstract, is the closest thing in power, to Odin? He pretty much is. Highfather? But definately not an abstract!! Glad that's out of the way. You know how many people have that, about themselves? And... this makes him an abstract? No abstract, goes around, and kills people. He may be on an abstract power level, but he's not an abstract.
Even then, you have also claimed PC Supes, to be an abstract. So...ya.

P.S. All of my above statements, are me playing along to your abstract claim.

he's an abstract. it's not up for debate. He is the Lord of Chaos. And High father from DC is waaaay to powerful for Mordru or Odin. He's the Yin to darksied's yang.

So Big Bran, how many characters were born with creation and have no end?

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
he's an abstract. it's not up for debate. He is the Lord of Chaos. And High father from DC is waaaay to powerful for Mordru or Odin. He's the Yin to darksied's yang.
Mordru would eat Highfather and Darkseid.

Originally posted by Validus
Mordru would eat Highfather and Darkseid. Darkseid is 1-0 against Mordru.

Originally posted by Juntai
Darkseid is 1-0 against Mordru.
He got lucky.

Mordru has fluctuating powers but at his best he'd mess Uxas up something bad. DS has been trying to rule the universe for years. Mordru is fated to rule the universe. It's only a matter of when, not if for him.

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
he's an abstract. it's not up for debate. He is the Lord of Chaos. And High father from DC is waaaay to powerful for Mordru or Odin. He's the Yin to darksied's yang. Ok, now I have no f***ing idea, of what the hell, you are talking about.Originally posted by Juntai
So Big Bran, how many characters were born with creation and have no end? Shit!!
I missed the beginning part.
Even then, this guy doesn't really stick to what he says. Especially when he says, stuff like this.
Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
he's an abstract. it's not up for debate. He is the Lord of Chaos. And High father from DC is waaaay to powerful for Mordru or Odin. He's the Yin to darksied's yang.

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
he's an abstract. it's not up for debate. He is the Lord of Chaos. And High father from DC is waaaay to powerful for Mordru or Odin. He's the Yin to darksied's yang. No seriously, I want to talk about this!
Your saying, that in your own words, that Highfather is way beyond an abstract?

Originally posted by bigbran
No seriously, I want to talk about this!
Your saying, that in your own words, that Highfather is way beyond an abstract? Well, if you ever read Takion, Highfather inbued a human to become a god. And then Darkseid with a giant starry hand, created Stayne from nothing in a very similar manner to Kronos creating Drax. Except that Stayne and Takion were far more powerful thn Drax could dream of.

Originally posted by Juntai
Well, if you ever read Takion, Highfather inbued a human to become a god. And then Darkseid with a giant starry hand, created Stayne from nothing in a very similar manner to Kronos creating Drax. Except that Stayne and Takion were far more powerful thn Drax could dream of. But Highfather way beyond an abstract?

Originally posted by bigbran
But Highfather way beyond an abstract? I wouldn't say way beyond. But, I'd say at the height of their power, DS and HF were meant to be near Celestial level. That is just imo given their accomplishments and roles, tho. Which is again why New God fans were pissed the moment DS finally lost to Superman, who he had smacked around effortlessly for years. Hell, even weaker New Gods were considered more powerful than Supes.

Originally posted by Juntai
I wouldn't say way beyond. But, I'd say at the height of their power, DS and HF were meant to be near Celestial level. Celestials aren't abstracts, Eternity created them all.

Like 2 of them, are in meetings with the abstracts, and those are some of the better ones. Galactus is also in those meetings, but he is sure as hell not an abstract.Originally posted by Juntai
That is just imo given their accomplishments and roles, tho. Which is again why New God fans were pissed the moment DS finally lost to Superman, who he had smacked around effortlessly for years. Hell, even weaker New Gods were considered more powerful than Supes. Fair enough. Superman, or Supergod?

i thought being a lord of chaos makes you kinda an abstract doesnt it im probably wrong but im just asking.

Originally posted by bigbran
Celestials aren't abstracts, Eternity created them all.

Like 2 of them, are in meetings with the abstracts, and those are some of the better ones. Galactus is also in those meetings, but he is sure as hell not an abstract. Fair enough. Superman, or Supergod?

Galactus is an abstract. he represents the destruction that is needed in the universe to maintain balance. He's akin to DC's Destruction. Thanks he is an abstract.

Originally posted by Juntai
I wouldn't say way beyond. But, I'd say at the height of their power, DS and HF were meant to be near Celestial level. That is just imo given their accomplishments and roles, tho. Which is again why New God fans were pissed the moment DS finally lost to Superman, who he had smacked around effortlessly for years. Hell, even weaker New Gods were considered more powerful than Supes.

Yeah Darksied and High Father are abstract. They represent the yin and yang to the source. High Father and Darksied have even said that the very least of The New Gods in thier true forms are mightier than the very strongest Sky Fathers.

Darkseid and Highfather? Abstract? ..............
..................................................................
..................................................................
..................................................................
..................................................................
This is seriously getting pimped to the point of silly.

Originally posted by Sixth_Winged


Darkseid and Highfather? Abstract? ..............
..................................................................
..................................................................
..................................................................
..................................................................
This is seriously getting pimped to the point of silly.

According to whom? Wouldn't you agree that what they represent is essential to the cosmos?

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
According to whom? Wouldn't you agree that what they represent is essential to the cosmos?

Their positions are prominent and they have special protections from the source, but they're hardly what you can place on abstract level. They are also destined to be replaced so it's not's really themselves who are important but the roles they are fillin in for the moment.

Originally posted by Sixth_Winged
Their positions are prominent and they have special protections from the source, but they're hardly what you can place on abstract level. They are also destined to be replaced so it's not's really themselves who are important but the roles they are fillin in for the moment.


Actually, When Highfather "died" he simply comes back as Takion. Replaced is subjective.

Comeback as Takion? WTF. Cause i read Takion's appearances after he replaced him, and he's still takion with no mention of him as izaya.

You can even ask KMC resident DC fans on that one.

But hey, if you can prove it through scans, who am i to argue.

Originally posted by Sixth_Winged
Comeback as Takion? WTF. Cause i read Takion's appearances after he replaced him, and he's still takion with no mention of him as izaya.

You can even ask KMC resident DC fans on that one.

But hey, if you can prove it through scans, who am i to argue.

Takion was created to be Highfather's avatar since Highfather new he was going to Die.

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
Takion was created to be Highfather's avatar since Highfather new he was going to Die.

And in this case, the avatar Takion is a serparate entity transformed by Izaya into a new god as his avatar and not a mere fragment of himself like darkseid.

Separate entity. Unless you can tell me Izaya as Takion didn't automatically assume his role even though he is Izaya and had to wait for Scott free to abandon his right to leadership or that once Scott free(miracle man) assumes his leadership, he will automatically become his father.

Originally posted by Sixth_Winged
And in this case, the avatar Takion is a serparate entity transformed by Izaya into a new god as his avatar.

Separate entity. Unless you can tell me Izaya as Takion didn't automatically assume his role even though he is Izaya and had to wait for Scott free to abandon his right to leadership or that once Scott free(miracle man) assumes his leadership, he will automatically become his father.

Highfather can see into the Future. He knew Mister Miracle wasn't going to take his role.

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
Highfather can see into the Future. He knew Mister Miracle wasn't going to take his role.

Speculations not to mention it doesn't make sense. Unless your implying Highfather is a murderer and forcibly replaced/killed Josh Saunders for his body.

Now, provide concrete evidence.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Takion

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Takion

"Highfather was able to temporarily return from the Source by using the body of his Avatar Takion, this was the real purpose for Takion's creation"

AFAIK, he simply possesed him once and left. That doesn't mean Takion is Izaya. Heck a mere ghost can do that in other fictional books.

Originally posted by Sixth_Winged
"Highfather was able to temporarily return from the Source by using the body of his Avatar Takion, this was the real purpose for Takion's creation"

AFAIK, he simply possesed him once and left. That doesn't mean Takion is Izaya. Heck a mere ghost can do that in other fictional books.

OOH OK. From where i"m sitting, he was created for the purpose that highfather wanted. And he can come back any time he pleases. Or am I mistaken?

Yes, and that purpose is to sadly host his spirit for a limited amount of time and gets free of it after ressurecting supertown.

Sucks to be Takion.

he's obvioulsy meant to be more than that and that dead people stays dead unless you really really try hard to get through.

At least, he still retains his highfather title consolation prize.

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
Galactus is an abstract. he represents the destruction that is needed in the universe to maintain balance. He's akin to DC's Destruction. Thanks he is an abstract. Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
Yeah Darksied and High Father are abstract. They represent the yin and yang to the source. High Father and Darksied have even said that the very least of The New Gods in thier true forms are mightier than the very strongest Sky Fathers.

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
he's an abstract. it's not up for debate. He is the Lord of Chaos. And High father from DC is waaaay to powerful for Mordru or Odin. He's the Yin to darksied's yang.

Mordru of the present century is probably more powerful than either Darkseid or Highfather. And if you believe Mordru is an abstract, then what abstract concept is he the embodiment of?

Originally posted by Khem-Adam
Mordru of the present century is probably more powerful than either Darkseid or Highfather. And if you believe Mordru is an abstract, then what abstract concept is he the embodiment of?
The the premier lord of Chaos.

i thought darkseid showed up celestial level beings like the millenium giants

Originally posted by Mider999
i thought darkseid showed up celestial level beings like the millenium giants

He did. No one on these boards cares. We don't use his high showings. :P

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
The the premier lord of Chaos.


Yes but lord of Chaos is not an abstract concept, it's just an identification of the kind of being he is. Like Kryptonian or Amazon. What abstract concept is he the personification of?

Originally posted by Mider999
i thought darkseid showed up celestial level beings like the millenium giants

The millenium giants were nowhere NEAR celestial level. The power of the celestials dwarfs that of cube beings, and those things warp reality on a planetary scale at a whim.

Even then, celestials are FAR, FAR below abstracts.

This thread makes me sad- it seems like the thread starter doesn't really have a concept of what an abstract IS. Here's a hint- abstracts aren't alive, they don't even have physical bodies. You can't truly destroy one, they're simply representations of...wait for it...ABSTRACT concepts- Eternity, Infinity, Death, Oblivion, etc.

for example- A Lord of Chaos is NOT an abstract. The concept of Chaos ITSELF (or a representation thereof) IS. It's meaningless to try and slap a power level on something like "Death" or "Inifinity" or "Chaos", so stop using "abstract level" like a rating on a meter.

Originally posted by Validus
Mordru would eat Highfather and Darkseid.
Darkseid has beaten mordru

Originally posted by Space M ummy
The millenium giants were nowhere NEAR celestial level. The power of the celestials dwarfs that of cube beings, and those things warp reality on a planetary scale at a whim.

Even then, celestials are FAR, FAR below abstracts.

This thread makes me sad- it seems like the thread starter doesn't really have a concept of what an abstract IS. Here's a hint- abstracts aren't alive, they don't even have physical bodies. You can't truly destroy one, they're simply representations of...wait for it...ABSTRACT concepts- Eternity, Infinity, Death, Oblivion, etc.

for example- A Lord of Chaos is NOT an abstract. The concept of Chaos ITSELF (or a representation thereof) IS. It's meaningless to try and slap a power level on something like "Death" or "Inifinity" or "Chaos", so stop using "abstract level" like a rating on a meter.

Mordru has no beginning and no end. He is abstract.

Darkseid possibly beating Mordru pre-Crisis in a future timeline doesn't really say much about Darkseid and Mordru in the present timeline. According to Dr.Fate reading Mordru's future, Mordru will be old and insane by the time of the Legion. Whether Darkseid will defeat that old Mordru in the future no one knows since the future is only possibility. But in the present Darkseid hasn't beaten Mordru and has a good chance of getting hurt if he tried.

Good fight ! I think it's about even.

yeah maybe DC should stop making darkseid job and he would be up to his old butt kicking status

Originally posted by Space M ummy
The millenium giants were nowhere NEAR celestial level. The power of the celestials dwarfs that of cube beings, and those things warp reality on a planetary scale at a whim.

Even then, celestials are FAR, FAR below abstracts.

This thread makes me sad- it seems like the thread starter doesn't really have a concept of what an abstract IS. Here's a hint- abstracts aren't alive, they don't even have physical bodies. You can't truly destroy one, they're simply representations of...wait for it...ABSTRACT concepts- Eternity, Infinity, Death, Oblivion, etc.

for example- A Lord of Chaos is NOT an abstract. The concept of Chaos ITSELF (or a representation thereof) IS. It's meaningless to try and slap a power level on something like "Death" or "Inifinity" or "Chaos", so stop using "abstract level" like a rating on a meter.

Finally someone who gets it .

Originally posted by complexbrother
Finally someone who gets it .

Mordru has no beginning and no End. What don't you get about that. he's not a god. and he's not human. He's an abstract.

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
Mordru has no beginning and no End. What don't you get about that. he's not a god. and he's not human. He's an abstract.


Then why don't you explain what concept he personifies?

exactly . and he does have a beggining all things do.

You dont' have to have a "concept' to be abstract. The Quantum Physics are abstract and at the top tier of power. They are abstract with no "concept". The Firestorm Elemental is waaaaaay powerful. He's like the Amazo jlu. He's abstract. With no "concept". every thing cannot be put into understanding of human minds. Even the new gods are abstract to human minds. We can't comprehend them. Or understand them. The sun eater, the maggeddon, imperiex. All abstract with no definable human concept of understanding. nOne the less abstract. Also, MOrdru does not have a beggining. There is no beginning nor end for him.

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
Mordru has no beginning and no End. What don't you get about that. he's not a god. and he's not human. He's an abstract.

He can't be called an abstract, if he's not a representative of something abstract.

How about you call him a universal entity?? Not man, not god but something different from both?? Works well ?

Originally posted by UniOmni
He can't be called an abstract, if he's not a representative of something abstract.

How about you call him a universal entity?? Not man, not god but something different from both?? Works well ?
and what is the Inbetweener? What concept does he represent?

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
You dont' have to have a "concept' to be abstract.


Yes you do. That's what it means. "Abstract" is short for "abstract concept". It has nothing to do with power level or comprehension. An abstract is the literal personification of a concept.

Originally posted by Khem-Adam
Yes you do. That's what it means. "Abstract" is short for "abstract concept". It has nothing to do with power level or comprehension. An abstract is the literal personification of a concept.

But there are things with no concept that are still abstract. Galactus for instance, is abstract. But he has no difinitive concept, so he appears differently to different races of people in the universe. The same is said of the maggedon. It has no DIFINITIVE concept as it apears differently to difffent beings. None the less, it is abstract.

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
But there are things with no concept that are still abstract. Galactus for instance, is abstract. But he has no difinitive concept, so he appears differently to different races of people in the universe. The same is said of the maggedon. It has no DIFINITIVE concept as it apears differently to difffent beings. None the less, it is abstract.


Being abstract is not the same as being an abstract. "Abstract" is just an adjective. An abstract is a specific identification of a specific type of being. The personification of an abstract concept.

This thread makes me sad.Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
and what is the Inbetweener? What concept does he represent? He represents, here and there, dead and alive, basically everything that has opposites. I don't think He is really abstract though.Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
But there are things with no concept that are still abstract. Galactus for instance, is abstract. But he has no difinitive concept, so he appears differently to different races of people in the universe. The same is said of the maggedon. It has no DIFINITIVE concept as it apears differently to difffent beings. None the less, it is abstract. Galactus isn't an abstract, but he does represent something.

Galactus repensents (sp?) the third great force in the universe (Eternity, Death and Galactus)

Originally posted by complexbrother
Galactus repensents (sp?) the third great force in the universe (Eternity, Death and Galactus)

Galactus represents Destruction. Like in the DC endless. Destruction is needed in the universe so that new life can sping up.

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
Galactus represents Destruction. Like in the DC endless. Destruction is needed in the universe so that new life can sping up. Galactus doesn't destroy for pleasure.(nice try though)
He has to eat to keep the balance between Death and Eternity.

galactus represents the balance of life and death eternity and his sister, just like inbetweener represents the balance of order and chaos

Originally posted by complexbrother
Galactus repensents (sp?) the third great force in the universe (Eternity, Death and Galactus)

Rubbish. Galactus neither embodies or has significant control over any force of the universe or aspect of reality. Chaos and order, for example, are essential forces/aspects of the universe. Galactus is not.

Originally posted by aliveinboston
Rubbish. Galactus neither embodies or has significant control over any force of the universe or aspect of reality. Chaos and order, for example, are essential forces/aspects of the universe. Galactus is not. Actually he is correct, but Galactus is still not an abstract, at full power though, he has the powers of an abstract.

Plus, Galactus is needed to balance things out, plus he needs to keep Abraxus in check.

Man, it seems every post involving DC heavyweights ends up talking about Darkseid ...

Takion's actual purpose was to cure The Source of the madness that infected it after Darrkseid let Orion kill him in it. Highfather breifly came back i n JKFW#19 basically on his own merits, after Takion went into the Source and asked him to. That Wikipedia entry is wrong.


Highfather and Darkseid as not abstracts. In fact, Highfather, Darkseid, Dr. Fate (who's beaten present day Mordru), Etrigan, and Orion combined were not as powerful as an abstract:


http://img516.imageshack.us/my.php?image=cinque5zy.jpg
http://img516.imageshack.us/my.php?image=cinque17id.jpg
http://img516.imageshack.us/my.php?image=cinque26gf.jpg
http://img503.imageshack.us/my.php?image=cinque36tq.jpg
http://img503.imageshack.us/my.php?image=cinque42yu.jpg


Odin wins the majority, though Mordru gives him a tough fight.

Man, I can't believe I forgot to check in on this thread after I replied.

It seems the issue has been put to rest more or less. Those who get it, get it, those who don't...don't...i suppose.

I did want to point out though that Galactus is most certainly NOT an abstract. He's a mortal being (Galan) that was given a horrendous amount of power when the old universe changed into this one. He doesn't have a physical form per se (it's been established he's simply energy in a containment suit) but he can most certainly be killed, and the universe will replace him eventually.

At one point it was suggested that he was on par with Death or Eternity as a prime force of the universe, but subsequent retcons have rendered that invalid, I guess.