Classic Beyonder and -Molecule man versus DC and Marvel Omniverses.

galan7777777

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
he's god of the vertigo comics. That God has never claimed Asmodel, Zuriel, he has never gone by the name the presence. So i'm thinking that THe presence and Lucifer's creator are aspects of the omnipotent DC God. who has yet to be shown. Cuz the presence and Yaweh dont' exactly go together. and where does that leave the source? They are prolly as aspects of the much larger DC god who resides of the entire DC omniverse, which would include all the dimensions, heavens, hells, vertigo, wildstorm ect. god is god, there are not different versions of god, just different names.........vertigo and DC are in the same continuity, hence when god was depicted on pannel in the lucifer series we cannot just say that this was the god of vertigo since vertigo and DC are one in the same...... this was the god that created ALL of existance

nvrbeenwthagirl

Originally posted by galan7777777
god is god, there are not different versions of god, just different names.........vertigo and DC are in the same continuity, hence when god was depicted on pannel in the lucifer series we cannot just say that this was the god of vertigo since vertigo and DC are one in the same...... this was the god that created ALL of existance

Then would he be the God of the Wildstorm universe as well? This would make DC's God omniversal.

galan7777777

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
Then would he be the God of the Wildstorm universe as well? This would make DC's God omniversal. he would be the god that encompases all of the DCU continuity

Thanos_THOTU

MU Omniverse is infinite, but so was the Multi-verse at that time.
You said that the current MU is bigger, but infninite equalls infinity.
But destroying the Omni-verse does not require much power:
Ultimtae Nullifier, (Mxyzptlk), Infinity Gauntlet, Infinity Being, Living Tribuanl could all done the same, and Beyonder was more than the Living Tribunal by far.

So we cannot judge this by feats.

I belive that Beyonder could pull it off, after all Presence is not the wrtier.

nvrbeenwthagirl

Originally posted by galan7777777
he would be the god that encompases all of the DCU continuity
Wildstorm is not in DCu's continuity. Which means DCU's God would be Omniversal. Not Multiversal.

galan7777777

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
Wildstorm is not in DCu's continuity. Which means DCU's God would be Omniversal. Not Multiversal. it is my understanding that there is a god for marvel and a god for DC, each on is god over all that happens within its own continuity

nvrbeenwthagirl

Originally posted by Thanos_THOTU
MU Omniverse is infinite, but so was the Multi-verse at that time.
You said that the current MU is bigger, but infninite equalls infinity.
But destroying the Omni-verse does not require much power:
Ultimtae Nullifier, (Mxyzptlk), Infinity Gauntlet, Infinity Being, Living Tribuanl could all done the same, and Beyonder was more than the Living Tribunal by far.

So we cannot judge this by feats.

I belive that Beyonder could pull it off, after all Presence is not the wrtier.

The beyonder would be Retconned into his current status as the NON cannon beyonder was shown ON panel to have not done any of those feats. He looses.

the Darkone

Classic Beyonder and Classic Molecule Man will eat their asses up, Beyonder million times more powerful than the multi-universe itself and he was playing around. He killed death with a gesture, could have easily barred LT from the marvel univers with a snap of a finger, our like he can create beings like Kurse and give him abstract like level powers. Classic Beyonder/Molecule Man where off the charts, you thought PC Superman was bad hell they could make 1,000's of silver surfers and give them some of Beyonders powers, and you will see a slaughter likes we have never seen.

nvrbeenwthagirl

Originally posted by the Darkone
Classic Beyonder and Classic Molecule Man will eat their asses up, Beyonder million times more powerful than the multi-universe itself and he was playing around. He killed death with a gesture, could have easily barred LT from the marvel univers with a snap of a finger, our like he can create beings like Kurse and give him abstract like level powers. Classic Beyonder/Molecule Man where off the charts, you thought PC Superman was bad hell they could make 1,000's of silver surfers and give them some of Beyonders powers, and you will see a slaughter likes we have never seen.

Classic Beyonder is NON cannon. He was hallucinating. He did no such things on panel. ANd What can the molecule man possibly do to the Spectre? The Spectre isn't made up of any substance the molecule man can mess with. The Living Tribunal would Unmake The Molecule Man.

Thanos_THOTU

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
Classic Beyonder is NON cannon. He was hallucinating. He did no such things on panel. ANd What can the molecule man possibly do to the Spectre? The Spectre isn't made up of any substance the molecule man can mess with. The Living Tribunal would Unmake The Molecule Man.
Do you know what abstract means?
I don't think you'll do so I explain it to you, you cannot:
touch
taste
see
hear
smell -
it, in other words they are not inm physical form, they are immune to the 5 senses.
Molecle man was more powerful than the Living Tribunal.

nvrbeenwthagirl

Originally posted by Thanos_THOTU
Do you know what abstract means?
I don't think you'll do so I explain it to you, you cannot:
touch
taste
see
hear
smell -
it, in other words they are not inm physical form, they are immune to the 5 senses.
Molecle man was more powerful than the Living Tribunal.

No he's not. And the Spectre is not an abstract. The spectre is an extention of God. He's beyond abstract. Just like the LT.

galan7777777

Originally posted by Thanos_THOTU
Do you know what abstract means?
I don't think you'll do so I explain it to you, you cannot:
touch
taste
see
hear
smell -
it, in other words they are not inm physical form, they are immune to the 5 senses.
Molecle man was more powerful than the Living Tribunal. yep, and even molecule man had only a fraction of the beyonders power

Thanos_THOTU

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
No he's not. And the Spectre is not an abstract. The spectre is an extention of God. He's beyond abstract. Just like the LT.
There is two forms: concrete and abstract... explain to me, what's beyond abstract.
But we all know that you'll just speculate so keep your words short and sweet in case you'll have to eat them later.
Because there is nothing beyond abstract...

galan7777777

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
No he's not. And the Spectre is not an abstract. The spectre is an extention of God. He's beyond abstract. Just like the LT. molecule man was the multiverses only hope to defeat the beyonder, the watcher actually pleads for Molecule man to help why would he do this if LT could have beaten beyonder:
http://img86.imageshack.us/my.php?image=uatubeggingmmbo6.jpg

nvrbeenwthagirl

Originally posted by Thanos_THOTU
There is two forms: concrete and abstract... explain to me, what's beyond abstract.
But we all know that you'll just speculate so keep your words short and sweet in case you'll have to eat them later.
Because there is nothing beyond abstract...
God is beyond abstract. By extention, so is the spectre. He's a part of God.

nvrbeenwthagirl

Originally posted by galan7777777
molecule man was the multiverses only hope to defeat the beyonder, the watcher actually pleads for Molecule man to help: http://img86.imageshack.us/my.php?image=uatubeggingmmbo6.jpg

If people keep using the classic molecules man and beyonder, then it would stand to reason that the LT isnt' an equal to the spectre. Becuz the spectre would defeat the molecule man handily.

Thanos_THOTU

Spectre and the Living Tribunal are beings that are backed up by God.
Well at least the Tribunal is, thats why he is what he is.
Look at him, he have no feelings no depth, he is totaly obejtive.
He's basicly 100% Spectre... But more like a machine.

Thanos_THOTU

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
God is beyond abstract. By extention, so is the spectre. He's a part of God.
God's are in facts abstract... They have no physical form... Man... Quit speculate, it sounds terrible.

Thanos_THOTU

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
If people keep using the classic molecules man and beyonder, then it would stand to reason that the LT isnt' an equal to the spectre. Becuz the spectre would defeat the molecule man handily.
If we go by your logic Mxy could take Beyonder...

galan7777777

Originally posted by Thanos_THOTU
Spectre and the Living Tribunal are beings that are backed up by God.
Well at least the Tribunal is, thats why he is what he is.
Look at him, he have no feelings no depth, he is totaly obejtive.
He's basicly 100% Spectre... But more like a machine. a full power spectre is supposed to be on the same level as LT, but id sooner think LT's equal in the DCU would be Michael Demiurgos, but in any rate both spectre/LT are backed by god so they should in essence be about the same level

the Darkone

These are are abstracts, they must respent something to order to be call a abstract. Galactus, The Stranger, Darkseid, Thanos etc are not abstracts.

Living Tribunal- Abstract
Phoenix Force - Abstract
Abraxas-Abstract
Entropy-Abstract
Eternity-Abstract
Infinity-Abstract
Death- Abstract
Oblivion-Abstract
Chaos & Order abstracts
Love& Hate Abstracts
chronus/Nebula Abstract

nvrbeenwthagirl

Originally posted by the Darkone
These are are abstracts, they must respent something to order to be call a abstract. Galactus, The Stranger, Darkseid, Thanos etc are not abstracts.

Living Tribunal- Abstract
Phoenix Force - Abstract
Abraxas-Abstract
Entropy-Abstract
Eternity-Abstract
Infinity-Abstract
Death- Abstract
Oblivion-Abstract
Chaos & Order abstracts
Love& Hate Abstracts
chronus/Nebula Abstract

OF course you name many characters from marvel. And you all equate marvel abstracts as the ultimate power. no wonder youg uys think they can't loose. An abstract is something that can be played with. Mr. mxy has no regard for any abstract as his power is beyond all of them. Even wizard magazine stated so. But you wouldn't say he was an abstract would you?

nvrbeenwthagirl

Originally posted by Thanos_THOTU
If we go by your logic Mxy could take Beyonder...

Well now that I find out that Else World's funnest is part of the DCU continuity becuz of infinite crisis, I surmise that he would. Especially since the beyonder doesn't really have that many on panel feats. All the ones you would hope to mention were part of a dream. He didn't really do any of it. NON cannon beyonder is what his name really is.

Thanos_THOTU

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
OF course you name many characters from marvel. And you all equate marvel abstracts as the ultimate power. no wonder youg uys think they can't loose. An abstract is something that can be played with. Mr. mxy has no regard for any abstract as his power is beyond all of them. Even wizard magazine stated so. But you wouldn't say he was an abstract would you?
LT = Fp Spectre
Mxy = UN
ALE = I-IG
ect... Wizards magazine is bull, they made a Goku vs Superman match, is not canon.

Thanos_THOTU

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
Well now that I find out that Else World's funnest is part of the DCU continuity becuz of infinite crisis, I surmise that he would. Especially since the beyonder doesn't really have that many on panel feats. All the ones you would hope to mention were part of a dream. He didn't really do any of it. NON cannon beyonder is what his name really is.
Beyonder >> LT >> IG >> I-IG >> UN >> Multi-verse

He did release steam that was millions of times all the powers in the multi-verse, even the Living Tribunal whom is above and beyond Multi-Eternity.

nvrbeenwthagirl

Originally posted by Thanos_THOTU
Beyonder >> LT >> IG >> I-IG >> UN >> Multi-verse

He did release steam that was millions of times all the powers in the multi-verse, even the Living Tribunal whom is above and beyond Multi-Eternity.
you mean non cannon beyonder?

Please. At least DC has the sense to retconn world's funnest into continuity. which means mxy trumps beyonder 8 ways to sunday.

galan7777777

Originally posted by Thanos_THOTU
Beyonder >> LT >> IG >> I-IG >> UN >> Multi-verse

He did release steam that was millions of times all the powers in the multi-verse, even the Living Tribunal whom is above and beyond Multi-Eternity. exactly and plus he shattered a forcefield that was as powerful as the entire multiverse like it was a joke: http://img142.imageshack.us/my.php?image=sdomepc9.jpg

nvrbeenwthagirl

Originally posted by galan7777777
exactly and plus he shattered a forcefield that was as powerful as the entire multiverse like it was a joke: http://img142.imageshack.us/my.php?image=sdomepc9.jpg
You mean in his head? I can shatter a force field in my head that is a ka jillion times more powerful than all the universes as well.

galan7777777

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
You mean in his head? I can shatter a force field in my head that is a ka jillion times more powerful than all the universes as well. dude we are talking about PRE RETCON beyonder/MM, at the time this was published beyonder had really done these things, it wasnt untill later issues that he was retconned

nvrbeenwthagirl

Originally posted by galan7777777
dude we are talking about PRE RETCON beyonder/MM, at the time this was published beyonder had really done these things

And yet Else World's Funnest MXy has been argued down in these forums even tho he was retconned into a cannonical story. He can stale mate the beyonder easily. Add in batmite from else world's funnest and they take him. Or they can just get all of the imps of the 5 D to play a big gag on the beyonder. Oh, right, the marvel abstracts already did that. messed with his head. The beyonder and Molecule man are outclassed by the combined might of the Marvel and DC omniverses.

galan7777777

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
And yet Else World's Funnest MXy has been argued down in these forums even tho he was retconned into a cannonical story. He can stale mate the beyonder easily. Add in batmite from else world's funnest and they take him. Or they can just get all of the imps of the 5 D to play a big gag on the beyonder. Oh, right, the marvel abstracts already did that. messed with his head. The beyonder and Molecule man are outclassed by the combined might of the Marvel and DC omniverses. the beyonder alone was millions of times more powerful then the rest of the power in the multiverse combined, and molecule mans power was nearly as great, they could destroy all that ever was in marvel/DCU with a gesture (including the abstracts)
http://img431.imageshack.us/my.php?image=beyondermillionsofxmorepowerfu.jpg

the Darkone

Classic Beyonder kills Mxy with a gesture.

nvrbeenwthagirl

Originally posted by the Darkone
Classic Beyonder kills Mxy with a gesture.

hoW So? Mxy has been shown on panel to be restriced from death by the editor of DC comics. The editor of DC supercedes the writers power of the beyonder.

nvrbeenwthagirl

Originally posted by galan7777777
the beyonder alone was millions of times more powerful then the rest of the power in the multiverse combined, and molecule mans power was nearly as great, they could destroy all that ever was in marvel/DCU with a gesture (including the abstracts)
http://img431.imageshack.us/my.php?image=beyondermillionsofxmorepowerfu.jpg

How can they beat the combined might of Michael, Lucifer, THe Spectre, The ALE, Krona, not to mention a host of Marvel artifacts and entities of great power. Thanos HoTU, Warlock with the IG, Galactus with the UN to name a few. Molecule man is a human being no matter how powerful. he was born. ANyone with time powers can back in time and kill his parents.

galan7777777

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
hoW So? Mxy has been shown on panel to be restriced from death by the editor of DC comics. The editor of DC supercedes the writers power of the beyonder. the beyonder has killed death itself, so obviously normal "cosmic rules" do not apply to him, mxy might be restricted from death, but beyonder and MM could easily undo any restrictions:
http://img391.imageshack.us/my.php?image=beyonderkillsdeath2kv6.jpg

galan7777777

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
How can they beat the combined might of Michael, Lucifer, THe Spectre, The ALE, Krona, not to mention a host of Marvel artifacts and entities of great power. Thanos HoTU, Warlock with the IG, Galactus with the UN to name a few. Molecule man is a human being no matter how powerful. he was born. ANyone with time powers can back in time and kill his parents. michael and lucifer are the only ones that "might" be able to compete with MM/beyonder, but lucifer wouldnt take any part in this battle so michael would be on his own....as for the others you mentioned, they are no match for the duo

nvrbeenwthagirl

Originally posted by galan7777777
the beyonder has killed death itself, so obviously normal "cosmic rules" do not apply to him, mxy might be restricted from death, but beyonder and MM could easily undo any restrictions:
http://img391.imageshack.us/my.php?image=beyonderkillsdeath2kv6.jpg

They can't undo restrictions set forth by a being higher than themselves. sorry bud, that ain't gonna fly.

nvrbeenwthagirl

Originally posted by galan7777777
michael and lucifer are the only ones that "might" be able to compete with MM/beyonder, but lucifer wouldnt take any part in this battle so michael would be on his own....as for the others you mentioned, they are no match for the duo

Krona is shown ON Panel, being stronger than both omniverses combined. He was stronger than all of thier universes most potent weapons. THe antimonitor could absorb the essence of the beyonder. there was never shown to be any limit to the AM"s absorbtion abilities.

galan7777777

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
They can't undo restrictions set forth by a being higher than themselves. sorry bud, that ain't gonna fly. and who exactly is "higher" then a being beyond existance, a being outside of the multiverse?
http://img204.imageshack.us/my.php?image=beyondspacetime2pq7.jpg

galan7777777

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
Krona is shown ON Panel, being stronger than both omniverses combined. He was stronger than all of thier universes most potent weapons. THe antimonitor could absorb the essence of the beyonder. there was never shown to be any limit to the AM"s absorbtion abilities. ok, but as stated beyonder is MILLIONS of times stronger then all the power in the multiverse combined, and as for the AM comment number_wtf

Mordum

One word HOTU that would at least stalemate if not beat them.If the DC omniverse was in jeapordy then god would give the spectre the power needed to stop them if not step in himself.

nvrbeenwthagirl

Originally posted by galan7777777
and who exactly is "higher" then a being beyond existance, a being outside of the multiverse?
http://img204.imageshack.us/my.php?image=beyondspacetime2pq7.jpg

Mr Mxy is shown on panel being restricted from Death by The EDITOR of DC comics. He gave mxy his powers back after mxy tried to kill himself. The Editor of DC trumps any powers that the classic beyonder had as he was only the writer's power. Mxy was given power by the EDITOR and chief and forbidden from ever dying.

nvrbeenwthagirl

Originally posted by galan7777777
ok, but as stated beyonder is MILLIONS of times stronger then all the power in the multiverse combined, and as for the AM comment number_wtf

We can't use what's stated on panel remember? many people argued that darksied's avatars stating that they were avatars and not nearly as powerful as the real DS was not enough. We can't use what was stated on panel becuz mr mxy stated that the joker dind't do nearly what he could in emporer joker. We can't use what was stated becuz highfather and DC odin stated that darksied was killing God's every where and that even thier combined might might not be enough to stop darkseid. So what's stated don't count around here. am I right?

galan7777777

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
We can't use what's stated on panel remember? many people argued that darksied's avatars stating that they were avatars and not nearly as powerful as the real DS was not enough. We can't use what was stated on panel becuz mr mxy stated that the joker dind't do nearly what he could in emporer joker. We can't use what was stated becuz highfather and DC odin stated that darksied was killing God's every where and that even thier combined might might not be enough to stop darkseid. So what's stated don't count around here. am I right? im not going to argue anymore 7900f44c82a964c25f448263bcfaa7a6, i have provided on pannel evidence of what the beyonder/MM are capable of while u ignore it and provide nothing but your oppinion....... bottom line is that the only being that could stop the duo from destroying all that is in the marvel and DCU would be TOAA/God
-nuff said

nvrbeenwthagirl

Originally posted by galan7777777
im not going to argue anymore 7900f44c82a964c25f448263bcfaa7a6, i have provided on pannel evidence of what the beyonder/MM are capable of while u ignore it and provide nothing but your oppinion....... bottom line is the the only being that could stop the duo from destroyin all that is in the marvel and DCU would be TOAA/God
-nuff said

NOt hardly. It's marvel fanboyisms around here. The beyonder could never be more powerful than the multiverse/omniverse he represents. Which is marvel. Myx ON PANEL was denied death by Mike Carlin, and repowered by him. That alone beats the beyonder's power description as the writer's power. You can resume shooting ur self in the head.

galan7777777

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
NOt hardly. It's marvel fanboyisms around here. The beyonder could never be more powerful than the multiverse/omniverse he represents. Which is marvel. Myx ON PANEL was denied death by Mike Carlin, and repowered by him. That alone beats the beyonder's power description as the writer's power. You can resume shooting ur self in the head. fanboyism!!!!! lol, did i not just say that the duo could destroy both marvel and DCU unless TOAA/god intervened? punch you are the biggest fanboy around here, you are so diluted with your own oppinions that you consistantly ignore on pannel evidence, and provide nothing but oppinions....... its a lost cause arguing any further!

nvrbeenwthagirl

Originally posted by galan7777777
fanboyism!!!!! lol, did i not just say that the duo could destroy both marvel and DCU unless TOAA/god intervened? punch you are the biggest fanboy around here, you are so diluted with your own oppinions that you consistantly ignore on pannel evidence, and provide nothing but oppinions....... its a lost cause arguing any further!

What ever you say. I know that Mxy was denied death by the editor of dc. The beyonder nor molecule man are undoing any of that. The molecule man isn't even in this fight. someon can go and kill his ancestors at the beginning of time and he's a non factor.THe issue i'm talking about is Superman the man of Steel #75.

Mr Master

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
Krona is shown ON Panel, being stronger than both omniverses combined.

hysterical2

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!

This is by far, the funniest post yet from this hater.

nvrbeenwthagirl

Originally posted by Mr Master
hysterical2

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!

This is by far, the funniest post yet from this hater.

Is it not true? has anyone on panel, punked Galactus like so? Sommuning him from where ever he was. They had like 12 of the most powerful weapons ever and it still wasn't enough to defeat him. Show me someone ON PANEL stronger. I dont' want to hear descriptions of how strong any was supposedly stronger than cuz you guys won't even take on panel descriptions of Darkseid avatars as proof. So I want to see drawings of someone who can with stand the combined might of all those artifacts.

Mr Master

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
Is it not true? has anyone on panel, punked Galactus like so? Sommuning him from where ever he was. They had like 12 of the most powerful weapons ever and it still wasn't enough to defeat him. Show me someone ON PANEL stronger. I dont' want to hear descriptions of how strong any was supposedly stronger than cuz you guys won't even take on panel descriptions of Darkseid avatars as proof. So I want to see drawings of someone who can with stand the combined might of all those artifacts.

Get out of my face with company crossovers laughing

Are you kidding?

darthgoober

OK, this fight actually depends on a couple of factors...

1. Are TOAA and/or Presence involved? If so, The Beyonder and Molecule Man don't really have a chance.

2. If TOAA/Presence ISN'T involved, then which versions of LT and the rest are being used? Because the Beyonder's recton did more than just change his power level, it also changed the power level of LT, Eternity, and everyone in between. You see, the recton pretty much made EVERYTHING that the Beyonder did, possible for LT and the rest also. So if it's LT from BEFORE the recton, then the Beyonder would probably take it. But if it's the current LT, who is able to do everything that the Beyonder did, then the Beyonder is going down.

Mr Master

Originally posted by darthgoober
OK, this fight actually depends on a couple of factors...
1. Are TOAA and/or Presence involved? If so, The Beyonder and Molecule Man don't really have a chance.

I agree.

Originally posted by darthgoober
2. If TOAA/Presence ISN'T involved, then which versions of LT and the rest are being used?

Doesn't matter.

Originally posted by darthgoober
Because the Beyonder's recton did more than just change his power level, it also changed the power level of LT, Eternity, and everyone in between.

I disagree,

The Cosmics have been pretty much the same in character and power since the mid 80's.

The Cosmics in 1984, during the Secret Wars 1 series (from where I got my Doom scans)

From left to right, the Watcher presents the Cosmics
http://img82.imageshack.us/img82/6743/1984wo1.th.jpg
Gardner
TOAA ( Celestial)
Master Hate (black figure with tentacles)
Chronos
Mistress Love (purple/maroon patch of energy)
Eternity
Lord Chaos
Living Tribunal
Master Order
And the In-Betweener is at the bottom speaking.
Mephisto is also there with Death at the bottom right.

The Cosmics in 1991, from the Infinity Gauntlet series

From left to right
http://img82.imageshack.us/img82/8206/1991nb3.th.jpg
Master Hate
Lord Chaos above
Chronos
TOAA (Celestial)
Mephisto (not a cosmic) & Eon are infront of TOAA
Galactus
Another Celestial
Stranger
Master Order above
Mistress Love
Eternity joins the group shortly after.
LT didn't get involved.

The Cosmics in 1998, from what if Impossible Man had the IG

From left to right
http://img82.imageshack.us/img82/4263/1998rt6.th.jpg
That other Celestial again
Stranger
Master Order
TOAA (Celestial)
Lord Chaos
Chronos
Epoch, who took over Eon's status
Mistress Love
Eternity behind her
Master Hate
the Watcher
Galactus

The Cosmics in 2006, from Last Planet Standing (it's non-canon, but it doesn't change the fact)

From the top, clockwise
http://img82.imageshack.us/img82/403/2006fw5.th.jpg
The Collector
Living Tribunal
In-Betweener
Stranger
Shaper of Worlds
Lord Chaos
Master Order
The Gardner

Originally posted by darthgoober
You see, the recton pretty much made EVERYTHING that the Beyonder did, possible for LT and the rest also. So if it's LT from BEFORE the recton, then the Beyonder would probably take it. But if it's the current LT, who is able to do everything that the Beyonder did, then the Beyonder is going down.

I disagree,

LT has never been shown to be able to wipe out Death from the Multi-verse, not saying he can't do it, just never has.

Also Beyonder created a UNIVERSE to which OUR OWN (616) is as a DROPLET of Water to the Ocean
http://img177.imageshack.us/img177/6536/buni1sh8.th.jpg
and you have roughly 22 quintillion drops of water in the ocean, give or take a few.

Which means, that's a mighty Big Universe.

LT transformed the Silver Surfer into a Universe for a moment, the size was not mentioned,
but even if it was as big as 616, look at what 616 is, in comparison to the Universe the Beyonder Created.

darthgoober

Yes Mr. M., but the when the Beyonder was rectoned, it was revealed that LT was more powerful than him. That means that every thing the Beyonder did, LT IS capable of(now I'll admit that he hasn't actually DONE the stuff, but Classic Beyonder never undid the effects of the Infinity Gauntlet either, that doesn't mean he COULDN'T have done it before the recton, but he hasn't). So while LT may not have the actual feats to back up his power, he CAN do the stuff, he's just smart enough to leave well enough alone.

That's why I was wondering which LT we were talking about. I know that the character hasn't changed, but his acknowledged power HAS.

nvrbeenwthagirl

Originally posted by darthgoober
Yes Mr. M., but the when the Beyonder was rectoned, it was revealed that LT was more powerful than him. That means that every thing the Beyonder did, LT IS capable of(now I'll admit that he hasn't actually DONE the stuff, but Classic Beyonder never undid the effects of the Infinity Gauntlet either, that doesn't mean he COULDN'T have done it before the recton, but he hasn't). So while LT may not have the actual feats to back up his power, he CAN do the stuff, he's just smart enough to leave well enough alone.

That's why I was wondering which LT we were talking about. I know that the character hasn't changed, but his acknowledged power HAS.

Pretty much LT, Micheal, Lucifer, Spectre, Mr. Mxyply, THanos Hotu, Reed with the UN, and Metron with the Worlogog and Grand mother box, and Darksied with the ALE are gonna kick these two guys asses. Metron is gonna go back in time and kill all Reece's ever. Wipe out the entire line. THen it's the NON Cannon Beyonder Vs. all these guys. And let's not forget Krona. Who from Jla avengers is cannon for dc. and since he's a dc character, his power lvls are cannon. The duo loose this one badly.

Mr Master

Originally posted by darthgoober
Yes Mr. M., but the when the Beyonder was rectoned, it was revealed that LT was more powerful than him. That means that every thing the Beyonder did, LT IS capable of

But alot of character became more powerful than the Beyonder after his retcon, that doesn't mean they can all do what he did.

Originally posted by darthgoober
(now I'll admit that he hasn't actually DONE the stuff, but Classic Beyonder never undid the effects of the Infinity Gauntlet either, that doesn't mean he COULDN'T have done it before the recton, but he hasn't).

By that same token the IG never erased Death, and I know it couldn't have cause the THOTU couldn't touch her either.

Now don't get me wrong, IG and THOTU are both more powerful than Death, but Death is the hardest entity to kill. (it's NEVER been done, except for Beyonder)

The IG never created a Universe that was roughly 22 Quintillion times larger than 616 Universe either.

But Beyonder did match everything the IG could do.

So my statement on LT unable to erase Death stands, until he proves otherwise on panel.

Originally posted by darthgoober
So while LT may not have the actual feats to back up his power, he CAN do the stuff, he's just smart enough to leave well enough alone.

The Feats he does have, are more than enough to solidify him as the Most powerful being now, second only to TOAA/HOTU (same power but NOT authority)

You mentioned his depiction of overpowering the IG.

He also transformed the SS into a Universe for a moment.

His authority over the IG is conclusive too.

There are other feats, but I hate just naming them, soon you'll see them all in his respect thread, I'm creating.

Mr Master

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
Pretty much LT, Micheal, Lucifer, Spectre, Mr. Mxyply, THanos Hotu, Reed with the UN, and Metron with the Worlogog and Grand mother box, and Darksied with the ALE are gonna kick these two guys asses. Metron is gonna go back in time and kill all Reece's ever. Wipe out the entire line. THen it's the NON Cannon Beyonder Vs. all these guys. And let's not forget Krona. Who from Jla avengers is cannon for dc. and since he's a dc character, his power lvls are cannon. The duo loose this one badly.

This is ALL gibberish.

Only TOAA and the Presence together defeat them.

nvrbeenwthagirl

Originally posted by Mr Master
This is ALL gibberish.

Only TOAA and the Presence together defeat them.

Mr Mxyplx is enough against the Molecule man. He would be in over his head.

The LT and Spectre would beat the pants off the beyonder. Micheal and Lucifer and Thanos would all be upset that they didn't get a shot. Krona, forget it, He's more powerful than Both Omniverse combined.

complexbrother

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
Is it not true? has anyone on panel, punked Galactus like so? Sommuning him from where ever he was. They had like 12 of the most powerful weapons ever and it still wasn't enough to defeat him. Show me someone ON PANEL stronger. I dont' want to hear descriptions of how strong any was supposedly stronger than cuz you guys won't even take on panel descriptions of Darkseid avatars as proof. So I want to see drawings of someone who can with stand the combined might of all those artifacts.

Pre ret Beyonder would have stomped a mudhole in Kronus. his feats are better.

Mr Master

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
Mr Mxyplx is enough against the Molecule man. He would be in over his head.

Molecule Man erases Mxy from ever existing, therefore bypassing his "get out death card"...

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
The LT and Spectre would beat the pants off the beyonder.

I love LT, but you better get him drunk, so he can muster the courage to fight Beyonder.

Beyonder turns Spectre back into green lantern, and offers him his life back, instead of being a wrath.

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
Micheal and Lucifer and Thanos would all be upset that they didn't get a shot.

Beyonder remakes heaven, and turns Michael into a dove, Lucifer into a court jester and Thanos into a mindless brute to play ball with the rest of the angels.

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
Krona, forget it, He's more powerful than Both Omniverse combined.

Molecule Man tells Beyonder, I'll handle this one.

Molecule Man coughs, and implodes Krona's existence into nothingness by accident

nvrbeenwthagirl

Originally posted by Mr Master
Molecule Man erases Mxy from ever existing, therefore bypassing his "get out death card"...

I love LT, but you better get him drunk, so he can muster the courage to fight Beyonder.

Beyonder turns Spectre back into green lantern, and offers him his life back, instead of being a wrath.

Beyonder remakes heaven, and turns Michael into a dove, Lucifer into a court jester and Thanos into a mindless brute to play ball with the rest of the angels.

Molecule Man tells Beyonder, I'll handle this one.

Molecule Man coughs, and implodes Krona's existence into nothingness by accident

That entire scenerio was totally ludacris. The molecule man can't beat mr mxyplx. How can he erase a being more powerful than him? and THe beyonder can't muck with the spectre. Only the presence can much with the spectre. you need to just realize that they are simply outclassed here. As a matter of fact, the only being on panel ever to have killed mr mxy, is mxy himself. your whole argument was so unreal. I cna't believe you just posted that.

darthgoober

Originally posted by Mr Master
But alot of character became more powerful than the Beyonder after his retcon, that doesn't mean they can all do what he did.
I know, LT is the only one in my mind that could do everything he did. I mean, I seriously doubt that Eternity could create a universe as powerful as he is.

Now don't get me wrong, IG and THOTU are both more powerful than Death, but Death is the hardest entity to kill. (it's NEVER been done, except for Beyonder)
Of course he's the only being to ever destroy her, everyone else that was THAT powerful knew better. laughing

So my statement on LT unable to erase Death stands, until he proves otherwise on panel.

But we know that will never happen because he knows better. That doesn't mean he CAN'T. The only way that would ever happen is if it fit into plans laid down by TOAA, and if that were the case, I think he could do it. So we'll have to agree to disagree once again.

Like I said, LT during the Beyonders hayday would probably have lost, but his role as the Ultimate Judge second only to TOAA has been explored further(let's not forget that during Secret Wars 2, he had almost NO feats to speak of to my knowledge), and since he's seen as more powerful now than the Beyonder was then, I feel safe in the assumption that he is now capable of ANYTHING that the Beyonder ever did.

rotiart

First off. Secret Wars was cannon. Beyonder was cannon. Secret wars 2 is also cannon, which rewrote.. or retconned Beyonder to a lower powerlevel. The characters were cannon, so where you're getting this cannon, noncannon bullcrap from is beyond me. The powerlevel of Preretcon is currently not cannon, however, it doesn't mean it wasn't. Idjit. And since we are allowed to use any character from any timeframe we wish, as long as its specified in the opening threads, this battle is non retconned beyonder.

As far as your arguement about Mr. Mxy. Please don't forget I pointed out the cannon/noncannonness about Elseworlds to you. So don't go acting all high and mighty and knowledgable with your little cabesa. Elseworlds was not cannon. Originally it was called imaginary stories. So when the story of Mr. Mxy destroying the multiverse was written it was considered non-cannon. 1998, introduce Hypertime.

Hypertime- A theory that stated by the assistant editor, introduced in Kingdom, a 2 part series, that any story, no matter the circumstances of it, whether it be the movie, or tv rendition, allstars, elsewords whatever, could all be considered cannon. In an example by the assistant editor, he stated for example a character that in one panel had their thumb cut, but in a following page, the wound appeared on the wrong finger or hand... could be due to hypertime, the facts that a similar but divergent timeline had remerged, and allowed for the change. Hence as of 1998, All stories could be cannon, including the Elseworlds. However it was never officially stated that the specific elseworld title showing Mr. Mxy was a multiversal destroyer was cannon. In fact since its up to the writer to "allow" the story, Mr. Mxy being multiversal being cannon hasn't yet been proven as it was never used in a cannon storyline. Hence the theory of hypertime. And it was allowed from 1998-2005 when the Executive Editor Dan Dido decided that Hypertime no longer existed, and that no further stories including Hypertime would be created. So there were several references to stories involving hypertime. ie flash.. however it does not mean that all stories are cannon, but that they have the possibility for being cannon. Also as of 2005, Hypertime goes away, and the Infinite crisis was used to explain away all of the temporal errors to errors with reality due to the original crisis on infinite earths. As of right now DC has only 1 cannon universe.

Hence. Mr. mxy multiversal was noncannon... it became possibly cannon... but then reverted to being again... noncannon... as only those stories that were important or used in cannon history up to the point of infinite crisis are considered cannon... and as hypertime no longer exists... and mr. mxy as a multiversal was never even alluded to... he isn't one.

I win. You lose. Bite me.

darthgoober

Originally posted by Mr Master
Only TOAA and the Presence together defeat them.
Now I don't know about that, I personally believe that TOAA could take them alone(for reasons I've covered on several other post).

nvrbeenwthagirl

Originally posted by rotiart
First off. Secret Wars was cannon. Beyonder was cannon. Secret wars 2 is also cannon, which rewrote.. or retconned Beyonder to a lower powerlevel. The characters were cannon, so where you're getting this cannon, noncannon bullcrap from is beyond me. The powerlevel of Preretcon is currently not cannon, however, it doesn't mean it wasn't. Idjit. And since we are allowed to use any character from any timeframe we wish, as long as its specified in the opening threads, this battle is non retconned beyonder.

As far as your arguement about Mr. Mxy. Please don't forget I pointed out the cannon/noncannonness about Elseworlds to you. So don't go acting all high and mighty and knowledgable with your little cabesa. Elseworlds was not cannon. Originally it was called imaginary stories. So when the story of Mr. Mxy destroying the multiverse was written it was considered non-cannon. 1998, introduce Hypertime.

Hypertime- A theory that stated by the assistant editor, introduced in Kingdom, a 2 part series, that any story, no matter the circumstances of it, whether it be the movie, or tv rendition, allstars, elsewords whatever, could all be considered cannon. In an example by the assistant editor, he stated for example a character that in one panel had their thumb cut, but in a following page, the wound appeared on the wrong finger or hand... could be due to hypertime, the facts that a similar but divergent timeline had remerged, and allowed for the change. Hence as of 1998, All stories could be cannon, including the Elseworlds. However it was never officially stated that the specific elseworld title showing Mr. Mxy was a multiversal destroyer was cannon. In fact since its up to the writer to "allow" the story, Mr. Mxy being multiversal being cannon hasn't yet been proven as it was never used in a cannon storyline. Hence the theory of hypertime. And it was allowed from 1998-2005 when the Executive Editor Dan Dido decided that Hypertime no longer existed, and that no further stories including Hypertime would be created. So there were several references to stories involving hypertime. ie flash.. however it does not mean that all stories are cannon, but that they have the possibility for being cannon. Also as of 2005, Hypertime goes away, and the Infinite crisis was used to explain away all of the temporal errors to errors with reality due to the original crisis on infinite earths. As of right now DC has only 1 cannon universe.

Hence. Mr. mxy multiversal was noncannon... it became possibly cannon... but then reverted to being again... noncannon... as only those stories that were important or used in cannon history up to the point of infinite crisis are considered cannon... and as hypertime no longer exists... and mr. mxy as a multiversal was never even alluded to... he isn't one.

I win. You lose. Bite me. I"m not evevn talking about hypertime. Guy. Get ur info right. Since the IC retcon, The world's funnest story is now cannon. as are all storyies. they have all been absorbed into the dcu conintuity. Thanks. I did my home work bud.

nvrbeenwthagirl

Originally posted by rotiart
First off. Secret Wars was cannon. Beyonder was cannon. Secret wars 2 is also cannon, which rewrote.. or retconned Beyonder to a lower powerlevel. The characters were cannon, so where you're getting this cannon, noncannon bullcrap from is beyond me. The powerlevel of Preretcon is currently not cannon, however, it doesn't mean it wasn't. Idjit. And since we are allowed to use any character from any timeframe we wish, as long as its specified in the opening threads, this battle is non retconned beyonder.

As far as your arguement about Mr. Mxy. Please don't forget I pointed out the cannon/noncannonness about Elseworlds to you. So don't go acting all high and mighty and knowledgable with your little cabesa. Elseworlds was not cannon. Originally it was called imaginary stories. So when the story of Mr. Mxy destroying the multiverse was written it was considered non-cannon. 1998, introduce Hypertime.

Hypertime- A theory that stated by the assistant editor, introduced in Kingdom, a 2 part series, that any story, no matter the circumstances of it, whether it be the movie, or tv rendition, allstars, elsewords whatever, could all be considered cannon. In an example by the assistant editor, he stated for example a character that in one panel had their thumb cut, but in a following page, the wound appeared on the wrong finger or hand... could be due to hypertime, the facts that a similar but divergent timeline had remerged, and allowed for the change. Hence as of 1998, All stories could be cannon, including the Elseworlds. However it was never officially stated that the specific elseworld title showing Mr. Mxy was a multiversal destroyer was cannon. In fact since its up to the writer to "allow" the story, Mr. Mxy being multiversal being cannon hasn't yet been proven as it was never used in a cannon storyline. Hence the theory of hypertime. And it was allowed from 1998-2005 when the Executive Editor Dan Dido decided that Hypertime no longer existed, and that no further stories including Hypertime would be created. So there were several references to stories involving hypertime. ie flash.. however it does not mean that all stories are cannon, but that they have the possibility for being cannon. Also as of 2005, Hypertime goes away, and the Infinite crisis was used to explain away all of the temporal errors to errors with reality due to the original crisis on infinite earths. As of right now DC has only 1 cannon universe.

Hence. Mr. mxy multiversal was noncannon... it became possibly cannon... but then reverted to being again... noncannon... as only those stories that were important or used in cannon history up to the point of infinite crisis are considered cannon... and as hypertime no longer exists... and mr. mxy as a multiversal was never even alluded to... he isn't one.

I win. You lose. Bite me.

First off ur an idiot. As long as all those else worlds tales where shown in Infinite Crisis, They were cannon. Theyhave been absorbed into the main DCU. 2ndly, What does your little story have to do with the fact the the molecule man cannot beat mxy. It's not even possible. 3rdly, I call the beyonder Non cannon, becuz all of the feats taht are used to describe him are non cannon or never even happened on panel. all the comparitive dialogue means nothing to me. Show me. Show me the beyonder beating The LT to death. Show me the beyonder more powerful than the omniverse. the beyonder never faced the IG, or the un. So i'm not biting it. you can bite me

Mr Master

nvrbeenwthagirl

Originally posted by Mr Master
Yea, I like this...you know your cool

too bad it was used at the wrong time. information not revelant to the discussion at all. I could know chocolate, but it wont' do me any good in a talk about vanilla. That is what he just did. brought info that wasn't needed or even being talked about.

rotiart

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
I"m not evevn talking about hypertime. Guy. Get ur info right. Since the IC retcon, The world's funnest story is now cannon. as are all storyies. they have all been absorbed into the dcu conintuity. Thanks. I did my home work bud.

really? you did? did you remember that i was in person in another thread that pointed out to you that elseworlds were not originally cannon? And that it was only due to hypertime, kingdom issue #2? or that according to dan dido the executive editor that hypertime no longer exists?

If you're not talking about hypertime, show me, where does it say that mr. mxy is a multiversal in current continuity. You won't be able to. You're the ignorant fool that calls most people here Marvel fanboys. Guess what jerk. I read more DC than marvel. So I'd like you to prove your hypothesis is more valid than mine. Other than saying its a fanciful tale. I've given in other threads the quotes from the editors themselves and issues. What have you done. Nothing. Thanks for stopping by. Door is to your left. Thanks.

wink

So either prove your stuff. Or stuff it.

nvrbeenwthagirl

Originally posted by rotiart
really? you did? did you remember that i was in person in another thread that pointed out to you that elseworlds were not originally cannon? And that it was only due to hypertime, kingdom issue #2? or that according to dan dido the executive editor that hypertime no longer exists?

If you're not talking about hypertime, show me, where does it say that mr. mxy is a multiversal in current continuity. You won't be able to. You're the ignorant fool that calls most people here Marvel fanboys. Guess what jerk. I read more DC than marvel. So I'd like you to prove your hypothesis is more valid than mine. Other than saying its a fanciful tale. I've given in other threads the quotes from the editors themselves and issues. What have you done. Nothing. Thanks for stopping by. Door is to your left. Thanks.

wink

So either prove your stuff. Or stuff it.

First off jerk. The pre ret con beyonder WAS cannon. ANd the World's funnest MXY Was CANNON. I dont' see how one can be used and the other not. And according to DC, all of dc's stories were absorbed into the main dcu. And if you think that excludes else world's re read ur IC books. Cuz when sbp shatters the time barriers, it has else world's characters in it. They are even starting to show up in the main DCU. do dont' come for me please. I know what i'm talking about.

Mr Master

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
First off ur an idiot.

Everyone agrees that you are.

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
As long as all those else worlds tales where shown in Infinite Crisis, They were cannon.

You've been proven wrong, take it like a man, or... whatever?

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
2ndly, What does your little story have to do with the fact the the molecule man cannot beat mxy. It's not even possible.

I already told you, MM erases Mxy from even existing.

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
3rdly, I call the beyonder Non cannon, becuz all of the feats taht are used to describe him are non cannon or never even happened on panel.

Who's the real idiot?

Show me ONE claim I've made about the Beyonder's FEATS that are not On Panel.

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
all the comparitive dialogue means nothing to me.

Why should it, your an intransigent obtuse individual, that's like a double whammy.

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
Show me. Show me the beyonder beating The LT to death.

Scarring him enough, that LT could NOT act.

The Multiversal BALANCE is twisted upside down when Beyonder erases Death:
http://img162.imageshack.us/img162/6859/beyonderkillsdeath3tq0.th.jpg
LT just accepts it.

Don't tell me he was just observing the events taking place with a higher purpose in mind:
http://img524.imageshack.us/img524/2994/lt2cm.th.jpg
This is EXACTLY when the Living Tribunal steps in, MULTIVERSAL INBALANCE, and he DIDN'T.

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
Show me the beyonder more powerful than the omniverse.

Just like the Omniverse is everything in Marvel Now.

So the Multi-verse was EVERYTHING upto May 84' and the Beyond Realm was EVERYTHING OUTSIDE of the Marvel Multi-verse between May 1984 and Nov. 86'

And Beyonder was BOTH,

Everything Outside the Multi-verse
http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6606/beyondspacetime2pq7.th.jpg

And Everthing INSIDE the Multi-verse aswell
http://img66.imageshack.us/img66/8379/beyonderisrealitydw2.th.jpg

Which means, Beyonder = EVERYTHING IN MARVEL = Omniverse

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
the beyonder never faced the IG, or the un.

Show me the UN or the IG making a UNIVERSE 22 Quintillion Times Bigger than 616 Universe.

Beyonder did, On Panel.

the Darkone

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
First off jerk. The pre ret con beyonder WAS cannon. ANd the World's funnest MXY Was CANNON. I dont' see how one can be used and the other not. And according to DC, all of dc's stories were absorbed into the main dcu. And if you think that excludes else world's re read ur IC books. Cuz when sbp shatters the time barriers, it has else world's characters in it. They are even starting to show up in the main DCU. do dont' come for me please. I know what i'm talking about.

Dude you are going to get yourself banned, the thread stater stated Classic Beyonder so deal with it. Classic Beyonder will slaughter the Dc/Marvel universe and make mxy his b***h with ease, LT couldn't do sh** to the Beyonder and LT=Full Potential Spectre, only beings that will stop Beyonder/Molecule Man is TOAA/Presence that's if he intervenes if not both universe dies a horrible death.

Validus

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
First off ur an idiot. As long as all those else worlds tales where shown in Infinite Crisis, They were cannon. Theyhave been absorbed into the main DCU. 2ndly, What does your little story have to do with the fact the the molecule man cannot beat mxy. It's not even possible. 3rdly, I call the beyonder Non cannon, becuz all of the feats taht are used to describe him are non cannon or never even happened on panel. all the comparitive dialogue means nothing to me. Show me. Show me the beyonder beating The LT to death. Show me the beyonder more powerful than the omniverse. the beyonder never faced the IG, or the un. So i'm not biting it. you can bite me
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v296/superdante/20244ad32f1bbe20.gif

nvrbeenwthagirl

Originally posted by the Darkone
Do you going to get yourself banned, the thread stater stated Classic Beyonder so deal with it. Classic Beyonder will slaughter the Dc/Marvel universe and make mxy his b***h with ease, LT couldn't do sh** to the Beyonder and LT=Full Potential Spectre, only beings that will stop Beyonder/Molecule Man is TOAA/Presence that's if he intervenes if not both universe dies a horrible death.

THe thread started didn't restrict who could be used. I"m using Mxy against the Molecule man. And any number of being could beat the beyonder. Krona, or even The GEB. They beyonder has very little on panel feats to back up his claim to fame. it's all speculation and hyperbole.

the Darkone

Why should it, your an intransigent obtuse individual, that's like a double whammy.

Scarring him enough, that LT could NOT act.

The Multiversal BALANCE is twisted upside down when Beyonder erases Death:
http://img162.imageshack.us/img162/6859/beyonderkillsdeath3tq0.th.jpg
LT just accepts it.

Don't tell me he was just observing the events taking place with a higher purpose in mind:
http://img524.imageshack.us/img524/2994/lt2cm.th.jpg
This is EXACTLY when the Living Tribunal steps in, MULTIVERSAL INBALANCE, and he DIDN'T.

Just like the Omniverse is everything in Marvel Now.

So the Multi-verse was EVERYTHING upto May 84' and the Beyond Realm was EVERYTHING OUTSIDE of the Marvel Multi-verse between May 1984 and Nov. 86'

And Beyonder was BOTH,

Everything Outside the Multi-verse
http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6606/beyondspacetime2pq7.th.jpg

And Everthing INSIDE the Multi-verse aswell
http://img66.imageshack.us/img66/8379/beyonderisrealitydw2.th.jpg

Which means, Beyonder = EVERYTHING IN MARVEL = Omniverse

Show me the UN or the IG making a UNIVERSE 22 Quintillion Times Bigger than 616 Universe.

Beyonder did, On Panel.

I think he does this on purpose so he can geat a double whammy, he's like mikey, he likes it wink

ctu_stylez

nvrbeen is a dumbass, just stop already.

nvrbeenwthagirl

Originally posted by Mr Master
Everyone agrees that you are.

You've been proven wrong, take it like a man, or... whatever?

I already told you, MM erases Mxy from even existing.

Who's the real idiot?

Show me ONE claim I've made about the Beyonder's FEATS that are not On Panel.

Why should it, your an intransigent obtuse individual, that's like a double whammy.

Scarring him enough, that LT could NOT act.

The Multiversal BALANCE is twisted upside down when Beyonder erases Death:
http://img162.imageshack.us/img162/6859/beyonderkillsdeath3tq0.th.jpg
LT just accepts it.

Don't tell me he was just observing the events taking place with a higher purpose in mind:
http://img524.imageshack.us/img524/2994/lt2cm.th.jpg
This is EXACTLY when the Living Tribunal steps in, MULTIVERSAL INBALANCE, and he DIDN'T.

Just like the Omniverse is everything in Marvel Now.

So the Multi-verse was EVERYTHING upto May 84' and the Beyond Realm was EVERYTHING OUTSIDE of the Marvel Multi-verse between May 1984 and Nov. 86'

And Beyonder was BOTH,

Everything Outside the Multi-verse
http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6606/beyondspacetime2pq7.th.jpg

And Everthing INSIDE the Multi-verse aswell
http://img66.imageshack.us/img66/8379/beyonderisrealitydw2.th.jpg

Which means, Beyonder = EVERYTHING IN MARVEL = Omniverse

Show me the UN or the IG making a UNIVERSE 22 Quintillion Times Bigger than 616 Universe.

Beyonder did, On Panel.

ANd The ALE's tiny droplet is enough power to remake a universe. DiD you see how big the ALE was? Who's to say the ale isn't like 50 trillion little pieces of universe remaking power. ur doing math with made up equation pieces.

nvrbeenwthagirl

And I need Just one person to show me Mr. Mxy being beaten by any simple Matter manipulator. No matter how powerful. Mxy isn't even from this plane of existance. Who's to say Molecules even exist in the 5th D? People just make shit up off the top of thier heads and then say i'm a dumb ass. Screw you.

Mr Master

Originally posted by darthgoober
LT is the only one in my mind that could do everything he did.

We'll agree to disagree as you said.

Originally posted by darthgoober
I mean, I seriously doubt that Eternity could create a universe as powerful as he is.

Actually that's 22 Quintillion (1000 Quadrillions) Times Bigger than Eternity.

Originally posted by darthgoober
Of course he's the only being to ever destroy her, everyone else that was THAT powerful knew better.

Thanos didn't know better with THOTU, he simply couldn't reach her realm, because it's Beyond the Multi-verse.

Against the Beyonder, there was NO escape.

Originally posted by darthgoober
But we know that will never happen because he knows better. That doesn't mean he CAN'T. The only way that would ever happen is if it fit into plans laid down by TOAA, and if that were the case, I think he could do it. So we'll have to agree to disagree once again.

Well like I said, Thano had the power, and couldn't.

And Death is not more essential than Time and Space in order for there to be existence, Thanos simply couldn't get to her.

Originally posted by darthgoober
Like I said, LT during the Beyonders hayday would probably have lost, but his role as the Ultimate Judge second only to TOAA has been explored further(let's not forget that during Secret Wars 2, he had almost NO feats to speak of to my knowledge),

He was the Ultimate Judge since his inception.

LT has always been the Most powerful character Secret Wars came out, then the TOAA was introduced much later.

Originally posted by darthgoober
and since he's seen as more powerful now than the Beyonder was then,

How'd you come up with this assumption?

LT hasn't proven to me he is more powerful Now than Beyonder was Then.

And believe me I follow the character thoroughly.

Mr Master

Originally posted by Validus
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v296/superdante/20244ad32f1bbe20.gif

laughing

Your the man V

Mr Master

Love the way you ignore all the sense I made in my post.

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
ANd The ALE's tiny droplet is enough power to remake a universe. DiD you see how big the ALE was?

You mean this ALE:

Long enough to prevail!
http://img79.imageshack.us/img79/6483/ale9vf0.th.jpg

"The threat of the ALE is forever ended"....."how"
http://img137.imageshack.us/img137/2096/ale15tr7.th.jpg
the bridging Dimension between our Reality and it's has been eradicated"

Dr Fate, Darkseid, HighFather, Orion and Etrigen defeated the ALE, get over it.

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
Who's to say the ale isn't like 50 trillion little pieces of universe remaking power.

Well DC hasn't, but nice going on the pure SPECULATION on the ALE's power.

Talk about making stuff up, you got nerve.

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
ur doing math with made up equation pieces.

I think not.

A UNIVERSE to which OUR OWN (616) is as a DROPLET of Water to the Ocean
http://img177.imageshack.us/img177/6536/buni1sh8.th.jpg

There are roughly 22 Quintillion Drops of Water in the Ocean, according to the Mathematical Biosciences Intitute in 2005 and the Scripps Institution of Oceanography. (it's actually been dropping since the early 70's, which means there was more)

darthgoober

Originally posted by Mr Master
We'll agree to disagree as you said.
thumb up

That's what I like about you, your always willing to.

Thanos didn't know better with THOTU, he simply couldn't reach her realm, because it's Beyond the Multi-verse.

Against the Beyonder, there was NO escape.
Now let's not forget that she was actually PRESENT when the Beyonder took her out, she wasn't in her own domain or anything. And I still think that Thanos wasn't gunning for her and THAT'S what saved her. I personally believe if she had been present and Thanos wanted to, she'd have went down like everyone else.

He was the Ultimate Judge since his inception.

LT has always been the Most powerful character Secret Wars came out, then the TOAA was introduced much later.

I know his role has always been the same, but his power was never explored.

How'd you come up with this assumption?

LT hasn't proven to me he is more powerful Now than Beyonder was Then.

And believe me I follow the character thoroughly.
I think you misunderstood what I meant, I don't mean that he's more than prerecton's theoretical power(having more than millions of multiverses combined and such), I mean that since he was established to be more powerful than Beyonder post recton, that he has more power than the Beyonder actually USED to accomplish his feats.

nvrbeenwthagirl

Originally posted by Mr Master
Love the way you ignore all the sense I made in my post.

You mean this ALE:

Long enough to prevail!
http://img79.imageshack.us/img79/6483/ale9vf0.th.jpg

"The threat of the ALE is forever ended"....."how"
http://img137.imageshack.us/img137/2096/ale15tr7.th.jpg
the bridging Dimension between our Reality and it's has been eradicated"

Dr Fate, Darkseid, HighFather, Orion and Etrigen defeated the ALE, get over it.

Well DC hasn't, but nice going on the pure SPECULATION on the ALE's power.

Talk about making stuff up, you got nerve.

I think not.

A UNIVERSE to which OUR OWN (616) is as a DROPLET of Water to the Ocean
http://img177.imageshack.us/img177/6536/buni1sh8.th.jpg

There are roughly 22 Quintillion Drops of Water in the Ocean, according to the Mathematical Biosciences Intitute in 2005 and the Scripps Institution of Oceanography. (it's actually been dropping since the early 70's, which means there was more)

DiD They defeat the ALE or just trap it cuz it's too dumb to know how to get to them. let's use some logic. They ALE was too powerful for them to combat. They couldnt' beat it. They destroyed a universe to trap it. IF the ALE is WAAAAAAAAAAAy stronger than them, as they even said, and they had the power to destroy a universe, it would be rather logical that the ale has the power to simply punch a hole into the next reality to get to them. it just isn't sentient enough to think like that. THey never beat it. They couldnt' even they said so.

Mr Master

Originally posted by darthgoober
thumb up

That's what I like about you, your always willing to.

smile

Originally posted by darthgoober
Now let's not forget that she was actually PRESENT when the Beyonder took her out, she wasn't in her own domain or anything.

That doesn't make any difference, Beyonder went into Death's realm anytime he felt like it,
http://img162.imageshack.us/img162/4171/beyondertalkingtodeathxu1.th.jpg

Death is too AFRAID to even respond to her X-Muderer
http://img78.imageshack.us/img78/7964/beyondertalkingtodeath2kx4.th.jpg
and it was Beyonder that summoned Death to it's own execution, Death wasn't just hanging around in that restaurant.

Originally posted by darthgoober
And I still think that Thanos wasn't gunning for her and THAT'S what saved her.

On Panel it was because of different reasons:
http://img91.imageshack.us/img91/5615/deathsurvivesoc0.th.jpg
Her Realm was Beyond his reach.

Certain scenerios in comics are left to interpretation, Not this one.

Originally posted by darthgoober
I personally believe if she had been present and Thanos wanted to, she'd have went down like everyone else.

Thanos couldn't absorb Anything Outside the Multi-verse or was it the Omni-verse, or the Universe...who knows...the series in that respect leaves everyone confused.

Originally posted by darthgoober
I know his role has always been the same, but his power was never explored.

I'll agree it wasn't explored much.

Originally posted by darthgoober
I don't mean that he's more than prerecton's theoretical power(having more than millions of multiverses combined and such),

That numeber is an actual gauge by the Writer himself, Not Beyonder or any other character.

Just like we know TOAA or the Presence is Infinite, because a Writer told us, not because of feats that don't exist for either.

Originally posted by darthgoober
I mean that since he was established to be more powerful than Beyonder post recton, that he has more power than the Beyonder actually USED to accomplish his feats.

I'm a little confused by this.

rotiart

As for the battle between omniverses vs the duo....

I'd have to give it to presence/toaa.

Jack Kirby/Stan Lee is a better duo then those two...

or DC could summon the ambiguously gay duo... the jobbers on those guys would frighten Beyonder away.

Mr Master

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
DiD They defeat the ALE or just trap it cuz it's too dumb to know how to get to them. let's use some logic.

read the comic before using meaningless logic.

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
They ALE was too powerful for them to combat. They couldnt' beat it. They destroyed a universe to trap it.

The ALE was more powerful, and the ALE was STILL defeated.

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
IF the ALE is WAAAAAAAAAAAy stronger than them, as they even said, and they had the power to destroy a universe,

The issue NEVER said that, STOP making stuff up.

Simply they would eventually lose to the ALE
http://img81.imageshack.us/img81/5589/fip0.th.jpg

Nice try.

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
it would be rather logical that the ale has the power to simply punch a hole into the next reality to get to them. it just isn't sentient enough to think like that.

Read the comic like I told you up top, then use logic.

"I now understand what the Anti-Life Force is upto"
http://img123.imageshack.us/img123/3907/ale1nn6.th.jpg

ALE has been PLANNING it's escape for a MILLENNIUM
http://img174.imageshack.us/img174/3131/ale2ya4.th.jpg

If the ALE was so dumb, it wouldn't have nearly succeeded in destroying the Milky Way with the Four Aspects it through after Metron, not to mention it lasted a Millennia planning it's escape, and it almost did.

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
THey never beat it. They couldnt' even they said so.

"The threat of the ALE is forever ended"....."how"
http://img137.imageshack.us/img137/2096/ale15tr7.th.jpg
the bridging Dimension between our Reality and it's has been eradicated"

Dream on fella.

Mr Master

Originally posted by rotiart
or DC could summon the ambiguously gay duo... the jobbers on those guys would frighten Beyonder away.

laughing out loud

nvrbeenwthagirl

Originally posted by Mr Master
read the comic before using meaningless logic.

The ALE was more powerful, and the ALE was STILL defeated.

The issue NEVER said that, STOP making stuff up.

Simply they would eventually lose to the ALE
http://img81.imageshack.us/img81/5589/fip0.th.jpg

Nice try.

Read the comic like I told you up top, then use logic.

"I now understand what the Anti-Life Force is upto"
http://img123.imageshack.us/img123/3907/ale1nn6.th.jpg

ALE has been PLANNING it's escape for a MILLENNIUM
http://img174.imageshack.us/img174/3131/ale2ya4.th.jpg

If the ALE was so dumb, it wouldn't have nearly succeeded in destroying the Milky Way with the Four Aspects it through after Metron, not to mention it lasted a Millennia planning it's escape, and it almost did.

"The threat of the ALE is forever ended"....."how"
http://img137.imageshack.us/img137/2096/ale15tr7.th.jpg
the bridging Dimension between our Reality and it's has been eradicated"

Dream on fella.

They didnt' destroy the ALE, or defeat it. NOt even close. Darkseid could barely contain a piece of it. The only reason it was trapped is becuz they destroyed the only way it knew how to get out. It took millenia to figure a way out. And they trapped it by destroying the bridging universe. Please dont play me like I"m dumb. They in no way shape or form destroyed or defeated the ALE. They said the Threat of the ALE. They didnt say the ALE is forver ended. THey said the Threat. They didn't have the power to beat it.

Mr Master

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
They didnt' destroy the ALE, or defeat it. NOt even close.

Long enough to prevail!
http://img79.imageshack.us/img79/6483/ale9vf0.th.jpg

Now go look up the word Prevail.

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
Darkseid could barely contain a piece of it.

You can continue to make stuff up, and I'll disprove it with On Panel Evidence.

Darkseid was doing just fine with the fraction he absorbed:
http://img116.imageshack.us/img116/5234/dfi6.th.jpg
http://img151.imageshack.us/img151/2018/ale16ff8.th.jpg
But he didn't know the ALE sent an Aspect after him, as he exited it's dimension

Again read the comic first please.

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
The only reason it was trapped is becuz they destroyed the only way it knew how to get out. It took millenia to figure a way out. And they trapped it by destroying the bridging universe.

The only way out?

What the heck are you talking about

When it CAN'T even SURVIVE OUTSIDE it's Realm
http://img108.imageshack.us/img108/5678/ale3zr7.th.jpg

Read the comic, or keep making an ass of yourself.

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
Please dont play me like I"m dumb.

Not dumb,

intransigent and ignorant, yes.

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
They in no way shape or form destroyed or defeated the ALE. They said the Threat of the ALE. They didnt say the ALE is forver ended. THey said the Threat. They didn't have the power to beat it.

"The threat of the ALE is forever ended"....."how"
http://img137.imageshack.us/img137/2096/ale15tr7.th.jpg
the bridging Dimension between our Reality and it's has been eradicated"

Defeat.

If the ALE was so powerful, it should have erased Fate and company the minute they arrived, or atleast after it was attacked.

But Fate, Darkseid, HighFather, Orion and Etrigen managed to hold off the ALE long enough to escape.

Try jumping into another Universe as a means of escape against Beyonder, or MM, or IG or UN or LT or a host of others.

You would be chased across ALL Universes, found, and erased.
Actually, you wouldn't escape to begin with.

nvrbeenwthagirl

Originally posted by Mr Master
Long enough to prevail!
http://img79.imageshack.us/img79/6483/ale9vf0.th.jpg

Now go look up the word Prevail.

You can continue to make stuff up, and I'll disprove it with On Panel Evidence.

Darkseid was doing just fine with the fraction he absorbed:
http://img151.imageshack.us/img151/2018/ale16ff8.th.jpg
But he didn't know the ALE sent an Aspect after him, as he exited it's dimension

Again read the comic first please.

The only way out?

What the heck are you talking about

When it CAN'T even SURVIVE OUTSIDE it's Realm
http://img108.imageshack.us/img108/5678/ale3zr7.th.jpg

Read the comic, or keep making an ass of yourself.

Not dumb,

intransigent and ignorant, yes.

"The threat of the ALE is forever ended"....."how"
http://img137.imageshack.us/img137/2096/ale15tr7.th.jpg
the bridging Dimension between our Reality and it's has been eradicated"

Defeat.

If the ALE was so powerful, it should have erased Fate and company the minute they arrived, or atleast after it was attacked.

But Fate, Darkseid, HighFather, Orion and Etrigen managed to hold off the ALE long enough to escape.

Try jumping into another Universe as a means of escape against Beyonder, or MM, or IG or UN or LT or a host of others.

You would be chased across ALL Universes, found, and erased.
Actually, you wouldn't escape to begin with.

First off, THe beyonder isn't ominicient. He dind't even know marvel was there for a while. he doesn't know all. and 2ndly, The ALE was not Destroyed. Darkseid with his little peice could have remade the universe. just a piece of it. We can't know what the entire thing could do in the hands of Darkseid. The Ale was limited by it's knowlege. It kills me cuz it seems like you can read between the lines for the beyonders power, like when he supposedly punked the abstract, but never laid a finger on them, but you can't read between the lines on the ALE's power. When it's clear that they couldn't kill it or defeat it. They had to destroy a reality and who ever lived there, just to contain it. Even dr. fat ask for mercy on his soul. i'm threw with it. IN ur eyes, marvel has ever single universal power and they can just defeat anything. fine. In my mind, I don't think molecule man can beat mr mxy. And I think the beyonder on panel doesn't have the feats to back up his description of power. while mxy does have on panel feats of unlimited power. we will have to disagree.

darthgoober

Sorry, I had to run an errand, now where was I? Oh yeah....Originally posted by Mr Master
smile

On Panel it was because of different reasons:
http://img91.imageshack.us/img91/5615/deathsurvivesoc0.th.jpg
Her Realm was Beyond his reach.

Certain scenerios in comics are left to interpretation, Not this one.

Yes, but notice that Warlock says OVERLOOKED, that implies that, at least in Warlocks opinion, that she and her domain would have been absorbed, had Thanos thought of it. Now I realize that Warlock isn't THE authority on these matters, but I do give him a lot of credit when it comes to the general scope of a cosmics power. He also says that her domain lies outside that reality, he doesn't act like she was beyond his power, just somewhere else. Thanos with the Infinity Gauntlet was the master of countless realities, so with THOU he should have been master of all of them, even Death's Domain.

I'm a little confused by this.
What I was saying, was that LT was revealed to be more powerful than the Beyonder in the recton, he had more power than the Beyonder used to accomplish his feats. So even though prerecton's theoretical power may be beyond the scope of LT, the power he used to accomplish his actual on panel feats, is surpassed by LT since LT was revealed to be more powerful. There, I think I said that right.

Mr Master

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
First off, THe beyonder isn't ominicient. He dind't even know marvel was there for a while.

How many time have you noticed the Molecules floating around in the everyday air?

Have you forgotten that 616 was around 22 QUINTILLION TIMES SMALLER than Beyonder's Universe,

That's 22,000 Quadrillion, and ONE Quadrillion is 1000 Trillions, and on and on.

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
and 2ndly, The ALE was not Destroyed. Darkseid with his little peice could have remade the universe. just a piece of it.

That was NEVER Proven On Panel.

Darkeseid said it, but NEVER got the chance to act on it.

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
We can't know what the entire thing could do in the hands of Darkseid.

We can't even know what a Fraction would do, since he NEVER did anything.

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
The Ale was limited by it's knowlege.

Now I'm going to accuse of LIES!!!

because I showed On Panel, that the ALE was NOT "limited by it's knowledge" in anyway.

It coerced a masterful plan in order to destroy the Milky Way Galaxy.

Please read the comic, cause your wasting my time.

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
It kills me cuz it seems like you can read between the lines for the beyonders power, like when he supposedly punked the abstract, but never laid a finger on them,

"never laid a finger"?

Your right, he didn't have to when he ERASED Death, the MULTIVERSAL Abstract.

He didn't have to lay a finger on the rest, cause he had them whimpering at his feet.

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
but you can't read between the lines on the ALE's power. When it's clear that they couldn't kill it or defeat it. They had to destroy a reality and who ever lived there, just to contain it.

They couldn't erase it, kill it, or absorb it, but they certainly DID defeat it.

How ever it was done, it was done.

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
IN ur eyes, marvel has ever single universal power and they can just defeat anything. fine.

I never said that, but your fantasies don't really bother me.

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
In my mind, I don't think molecule man can beat mr mxy.

Which is why your losing points everytime you post.

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
And I think the beyonder on panel doesn't have the feats to back up his description of power.

Like Creating a UNIVERSE from scratch, 22 Quintillion Times Bigger than 616?

Like Erasing Multi-Death, (which to this day, NO ONE else has done)?

Like by dominating the Cosmics, the Universe, the Multi-verse and the Judge of ALL the Multi-verses?

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
while mxy does have on panel feats of unlimited power. we will have to disagree.

What?...supposedly Erasing a Multi-verse?

That's NOT Unlimited, UN can do that and IG is Above UN, LT is Above IG, Beyonder is Above LT.

And rot pointed out how it's trully Not canon anyway.

Mr Master

Originally posted by darthgoober
Yes, but notice that Warlock says OVERLOOKED, that implies that, at least in Warlocks opinion, that she and her domain would have been absorbed, had Thanos thought of it.

Did you also notice, "She exists in a plane of Reality OUTSIDE this Actuality"

It's the same reason Thanos could Not Absorb Atleza's domain iether.
http://img151.imageshack.us/img151/9448/allhecould5ip7.th.jpg
It's due to how the Multi-verse or Omniverse is structured.

The Multi-verse and the rest of the Marvel Universes rests with in the Cosmic Vortex.

See those little Purple Balls, thats where Atleza is (the Cosmic Anchor of the Universe)...

and every little Purple Ball is the Domain of the Anchor of a Universe ...

Each Domain is Outside the Multiverse...Untouched by Space or Time....

The much bigger Blue Balls represent EACH a Universe, and the SUM of the Blue Balls is the Multi-verse.
http://img336.imageshack.us/img336/8021/unilook17qj.th.jpg
http://img280.imageshack.us/img280/9715/unilook21qc.th.jpg
Anything Outside the Blue Balls is Untouched by the Space & Time which encompasses Multi-Eternity/Infinity, since it is Outside the Multi-verse.

Originally posted by darthgoober
Now I realize that Warlock isn't THE authority on these matters, but I do give him a lot of credit when it comes to the general scope of a cosmics power.

Warlock's word holds alot of weight.

Whatever he says concerning Cosmics, can be trusted as fact.

Originally posted by darthgoober
He also says that her domain lies outside that reality, he doesn't act like she was beyond his power, just somewhere else.

Death is not beyond the IG or the HOTU, but nor the IG or THOTU can touch Death, because her Realm is beyond it's influence.

(I showed you how Reality is structured.)

Originally posted by darthgoober
Thanos with the Infinity Gauntlet was the master of countless realities, so with THOU he should have been master of all of them, even Death's Domain.

IG made him master of ALL Universes, excluding LT.

HOTU made him master of ALL Universes including LT.

None can reach Outside ALL of Space and Time.(Multi-verse/Omni-verse)

Originally posted by darthgoober
What I was saying, was that LT was revealed to be more powerful than the Beyonder in the recton, he had more power than the Beyonder used to accomplish his feats.

Your saying, that LT has shown more power than Beyonder did before the retcon?

Originally posted by darthgoober
So even though prerecton's theoretical power may be beyond the scope of LT, the power he used to accomplish his actual on panel feats, is surpassed by LT since LT was revealed to be more powerful.

When was LT revealed to be more powerful Now, than pre-retcon Beyonder was then?

Or when did LT display more power Now, than pre-retcon Beyonder did then?

nvrbeenwthagirl

Originally posted by Mr Master
How many time have you noticed the Molecules floating around in the everyday air?

Have you forgotten that 616 was around 22 QUINTILLION TIMES SMALLER than Beyonder's Universe,

That's 22,000 Quadrillion, and ONE Quadrillion is 1000 Trillions, and on and on.

That was NEVER Proven On Panel.

Darkeseid said it, but NEVER got the chance to act on it.

We can't even know what a Fraction would do, since he NEVER did anything.

Now I'm going to accuse of LIES!!!

because I showed On Panel, that the ALE was NOT "limited by it's knowledge" in anyway.

It coerced a masterful plan in order to destroy the Milky Way Galaxy.

Please read the comic, cause your wasting my time.

"never laid a finger"?

Your right, he didn't have to when he ERASED Death, the MULTIVERSAL Abstract.

He didn't have to lay a finger on the rest, cause he had them whimpering at his feet.

They couldn't erase it, kill it, or absorb it, but they certainly DID defeat it.

How ever it was done, it was done.

I never said that, but your fantasies don't really bother me.

Which is why your losing points everytime you post.

Like Creating a UNIVERSE from scratch, 22 Quintillion Times Bigger than 616?

Like Erasing Multi-Death, (which to this day, NO ONE else has done)?

Like by dominating the Cosmics, the Universe, the Multi-verse and the Judge of ALL the Multi-verses?

What?...supposedly Erasing a Multi-verse?

That's NOT Unlimited, UN can do that and IG is Above UN, LT is Above IG, Beyonder is Above LT.

And rot pointed out how it's trully Not canon anyway.

I'm going to show you just how you think.

I would like for you to name something or a person from DC that in ur mind can match
The power of
The Molecule man
The beyonder
THe IG
The HOTU
THe UN.

If you can think of things or beings that are a match then I'll say your not biased. If you can't, then I know that you pretty only know marvel stuff.

Mr Master

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
I'm going to show you just how you think.

I would like for you to name something or a person from DC that in ur mind can match
The power of
The Molecule man
The beyonder
THe IG
The HOTU
THe UN.

If you can think of things or beings that are a match then I'll say your not biased. If you can't, then I know that you pretty only know marvel stuff.

Considering Mxy's feat in Elseworlds,
UN = Mxy

LT = Full Power Spectre

IG = who ever in DC that's directly beneath a Full Powered Spectre
(Only LT is Above the IG)

MM = AM, AFTER absorbing ALL those Universes possibly

HOTU = Lucifer & Michael together if they equal the Presence in Power.
(THOTU = TOAA's Power, but Not it's authority)

Beyonder = Presence

darthgoober

Originally posted by Mr Master
Did you also notice, "She exists in a plane of Reality OUTSIDE this Actuality"

It's the same reason Thanos could Not Absorb Atleza's domain iether.

Yes but Warlock implied that Thanos COULD have absorbed them if he hadn't overlooked them. There is no concrete proof that they were beyond his power, unless you count that they were still around, which can be explained by his overlooking them. With the power of TOAA, he had power over EVERYTHING, not just time and space. If time and space were all he was trying to absorb, then of coarse everything that was outside time and space would still be left, but that doesn't mean that he couldn't decide to absorb those things also once he thought of it.

Warlock's word holds alot of weight.

Whatever he says concerning Cosmics, can be trusted as fact.
Here I completely agree.

OK let's try this again. The recton made it so that LT is more powerful than the Beyonder, right. So that means that he is more powerful than the Beyonder was SHOWED being. Not greater than the amount of power that he still had in reserve, the power that he actually used. Because if he is more powerful than the Beyonder actually is, than he is more powerful than the Beyonders actual showings.

nvrbeenwthagirl

Originally posted by Mr Master
Considering Mxy's feat in Elseworlds,
UN = Mxy

LT = Full Power Spectre

IG = who ever in DC that's directly beneath a Full Powered Spectre
(Only LT is Above the IG)

MM = AM, AFTER absorbing ALL those Universes possibly

HOTU = Lucifer & Michael together if they equal the Presence in Power.
(THOTU = TOAA's Power, but Not it's authority)

Beyonder = Presence

What about The God wave, The source, The worlogog, and the grandmother box. I'm just trying to get you to see how you guys make dc look when it comes to cosmic power. when both universes pretty much are equal. And i can't count the beyonder as being equal to the presence. THe presence is god. He can't be counted.

Mr Master

Originally posted by darthgoober
Yes but Warlock implied that Thanos COULD have absorbed them if he hadn't overlooked them.

Warlock never said Thanos "Could have" or implied it. imo.

Thanos absorbed ALL he could Absorb, which is ALL of of Space and Time:

Thanos Absorbed ALL he could, until "NOTHING remained".
http://img165.imageshack.us/img165/991/allhecouldum7.th.jpg
Only the Realms existing OUTSIDE of Space and Time remained.

Which is literally, Death's domain, Oblivion's domain, the Universal Anchors and literally a few Universes that reside OUTSIDE the prime Reality.

Originally posted by darthgoober
There is no concrete proof that they were beyond his power, unless you count that they were still around, which can be explained by his overlooking them.

You keep saying that darth, but I never said Death or Atleza are above THOTU.

How could he overlook them if he absorbed ALL there was until there was Nothing, Thanos Stopped absorbing when there was Nothing left.

Originally posted by darthgoober
With the power of TOAA, he had power over EVERYTHING, not just time and space.

Thanos was given the Power of TOAA, but NOT it's Authority.

Which is why he was manipulated by TOAA through out the entire series.

Originally posted by darthgoober
If time and space were all he was trying to absorb, then of coarse everything that was outside time and space would still be left,

I never read where it says, he was only aiming to absorb Time and Space, if you show me where that is, I'll except that.

Originally posted by darthgoober
but that doesn't mean that he couldn't decide to absorb those things also once he thought of it.

Perhaps, but anything more than what's on panel is speculation.

Originally posted by darthgoober
The recton made it so that LT is more powerful than the Beyonder, right. So that means that he is more powerful than the Beyonder was SHOWED being.

Ok, now I get it,

but no, LT has NOT been depicted as being More powerful at anytime than Beyonder was in his Pre era.

Originally posted by darthgoober
Not greater than the amount of power that he still had in reserve, the power that he actually used.

Nothing LT has ever done, trumps Beyonder's greatest feats.

nvrbeenwthagirl

Originally posted by Mr Master
Warlock never said Thanos "Could have" or implied it. imo.

Thanos absorbed ALL he could Absorb, which is ALL of of Space and Time:

Thanos Absorbed ALL he could, until "NOTHING remained".
http://img165.imageshack.us/img165/991/allhecouldum7.th.jpg
Only the Realms existing OUTSIDE of Space and Time remained.

Which is literally, Death's domain, Oblivion's domain, the Universal Anchors and literally a few Universes that reside OUTSIDE the prime Reality.

You keep saying that darth, but I never said Death or Atleza are above THOTU.

How could he overlook them if he absorbed ALL there was until there was Nothing, Thanos Stopped absorbing when there was Nothing left.

Thanos was given the Power of TOAA, but NOT it's Authority.

Which is why he was manipulated by TOAA through out the entire series.

I never read where it says, he was only aiming to absorb Time and Space, if you show me where that is, I'll except that.

Perhaps, but anything more than what's on panel is speculation.

Ok, now I get it,

but no, LT has NOT been depicted as being More powerful at anytime than Beyonder was in his Pre era.

Nothing LT has ever done, trumps Beyonder's greatest feats.

There is one thing that the LT has done that trumps all of the beyonder's feats. He Retconned the Shit out of the beyonder.

complexbrother

^^^ true can't argue with that

Mr Master

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
What about The God wave, The source, The worlogog, and the grandmother box.

Grandmother Box might = the UN (I think Orion remade Reality with it)

The rest don't come close

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
I'm just trying to get you to see how you guys make dc look when it comes to cosmic power.

There is no bias here, if a character is more powerful than another, I'm not going to support the loser, just to be politically correct.

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
when both universes pretty much are equal.

I wouldn't argue to much with that.

But when you decide to say Mxy can take Beyonder, ofcourse everyone is going to disagree.

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
And i can't count the beyonder as being equal to the presence. The presence is god. He can't be counted.

Who do you think Beyonder was?

Just like the Omniverse is everything in Marvel Now.

So the Multi-verse was EVERYTHING upto May 84' and the Beyond Realm was EVERYTHING OUTSIDE of the Marvel Multi-verse between May 1984 and Nov. 86'

And Beyonder was BOTH,

Everything Outside the Multi-verse
http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6606/beyondspacetime2pq7.th.jpg

And Everthing INSIDE the Multi-verse aswell
http://img66.imageshack.us/img66/8379/beyonderisrealitydw2.th.jpg

Which means, Beyonder = EVERYTHING IN MARVEL = Omniverse

Mr Master

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
There is one thing that the LT has done that trumps all of the beyonder's feats. He Retconned the Shit out of the beyonder.

hum

Your calling other members idiots, and then you post this. 5funny

LT stepped out of the comic book pages

and became an editor in chief hysterical2

bigbran

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
There is one thing that the LT has done that trumps all of the beyonder's feats. He Retconned the Shit out of the beyonder. I've said it before. You ignore huge posts just to anwser a sentence.
Plus...Originally posted by Mr Master
hum

Your calling other members idiots, and then you post this. 5funny

LT stepped out of the comic book pages

and became an editor in chief hysterical2

Mr Master

Originally posted by bigbran
I've said it before. You ignore huge posts just to anwser a sentence.
Plus...

He didn't even reply to one thing I said,

his rebuttal had absolutely Nothing to do with my post.

He saw himself against a corner, and lashed out that gibberish.

hey bran, did you ever know it was LT that retconned Beyonder... laughing

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
LT Retconned the Shit out of the beyonder.
I still can't get over that one.

rotiart

LT is the shit... man ... he does a raging demon and kills everyone

kevdude

Mr. Master I haven't read anything in those pics showing the Beyonder is everything inside the Multiverse. The Beyonder didn't know why he was here, showing him not being God. He would be comparible to Michael as having Gods power but Michael knowing why he is here, Beyonder doesn't.

bigbran

Originally posted by Mr Master
He didn't even reply to one thing I said,

his rebuttal had absolutely Nothing to do with my post.

He saw himself against a corner, and lashed out that gibberish. Actually he did.... the last sentence!
Originally posted by Mr Master

Nothing LT has ever done, trumps Beyonder's greatest feats. Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
There is one thing that the LT has done that trumps all of the beyonder's feats. He Retconned the Shit out of the beyonder.
But of course this was because he was just backed in a corner.

Originally posted by Mr Master
hey bran, did you ever know it was LT that retconned Beyonder... laughing

I still can't get over that one. No!
But that going in my profile along with the other ones, check it out!

Mr Master

Originally posted by kevdude
Mr. Master I haven't read anything in those pics showing the Beyonder is everything inside the Multiverse.

"My Imagination and Reality are virtually INDISTINGUISABLE.

ALL Existence, except me, might as well be a figment of my imagination"
http://img176.imageshack.us/img176/8670/readhj0.th.jpg
"I might have just dreamed ALL this up"

Originally posted by kevdude
The Beyonder didn't know why he was here, showing him not being God.

Who said he didn't know why he was here?

When he noticed the microbe called the Multi-verse, it caught his attention, he came and explored, learned about Desire, and wanted to understand,

But how could he:
http://img179.imageshack.us/img179/4571/wolmo5.th.jpg

Originally posted by kevdude
He would be comparible to Michael as having Gods power but Michael knowing why he is here, Beyonder doesn't.

Like I said, Beyonder knew why he was here, he was trying to understand desire, and there lied the paradox.

How can you Desire, when you can do anything:
http://img82.imageshack.us/img82/3159/beyondercandoanythingml3.th.jpg

Mr Master

Originally posted by bigbran
Actually he did.... the last sentence!

You were right,

it was so outlandish, I overlooked the context. laughing out loud

darthgoober

Originally posted by Mr Master
Warlock never said Thanos "Could have" or implied it. imo. He said "There is another you overlooked in your mad frenzy of absorption, titan", now that seem to imply that he could have, in Warlocks opinion.

Thanos absorbed ALL he could Absorb, which is ALL of of Space and Time:
Thanos with the Infinity Gauntlet had dominion over more than just space and time, it doesn't really make sense for those to be the ONLY things he could absorb.

Thanos Absorbed ALL he could, until "NOTHING remained". It's never said that he absorbed all he could, just all that might threaten his reign, and let's face it, Death and Warlock didn't really try.

You keep saying that darth, but I never said Death or Atleza are above THOTU No I meant beyond the area of his influence, I didn't mean that you thought they were above him. Sorry for the confusion.

How could he overlook them if he absorbed ALL there was until there was Nothing, Thanos Stopped absorbing when there was Nothing left.

He sought to destroy all that might oppose his reign, and everyone that would was INSIDE time and space. So if he set his goal to absorb all that would threaten his reign, then everyone who didn't, wouldn't be targeted.

Ok, now I get it,

but no, LT has NOT been depicted as being More powerful at anytime than Beyonder was in his Pre era. Now I'm not familiar with the details of the recton, but did they actually alter time or something so that the things he did, didn't actually happen? I've always been under the impression that only his perceived power was changed, but the events that went down still took place. Because if all the events still stand, then LT is more powerful than the Beyonder's best showings by default. But like I said, I'm not really aware of the recton's details, and if the events were erased some how, then that wouldn't really apply so ignore my prior statements.

Mr Master

Originally posted by darthgoober
He said "There is another you overlooked in your mad frenzy of absorption, titan", now that seem to imply that he could have, in Warlocks opinion.

I believe if he was implying that, he would have not followed it with,

"For She too Exists in a Plane of Actuality OUTSIDE this poor Reality"
http://img91.imageshack.us/img91/5615/deathsurvivesoc0.th.jpg

Thanos tells Warlock, "You have Always been Part of the Universe but Inexplicably Apart from it....That Saved you."
http://img167.imageshack.us/img167/453/t1rw0.th.jpg
Because he was attending to Atleza with Gamora.

(Warlock, Gamora, Atleza) Death, Oblivion and ALL the Cosmic Anchors survived, because their Realms are ALL beyond Space and Time
http://img151.imageshack.us/img151/9448/allhecould5ip7.th.jpg
"You & Gamora were OUTSIDE this Reality, tending Atleza, this Actuality's Cosmic Anchor"

These are Three seperate instances were the Reason for surviving Thanos's absorpsion was clearly because they were OUTSIDE Space & Time

If you disagree, lets just forget about it, cause I'm not changing my mind and neither are you.

Originally posted by darthgoober
Thanos with the Infinity Gauntlet had dominion over more than just space and time, it doesn't really make sense for those to be the ONLY things he could absorb.

What else is there?

The Omni-verse is made up of Space and Time.

The OMNI-VERSE
http://img165.imageshack.us/img165/9923/omni2cn6.th.jpg
http://img165.imageshack.us/img165/211/omni3uj8.th.jpg
Merlyn and Roma oversee the Omni-verse and Betsy Braddock (Captain Britain's sister), is in training.

Originally posted by darthgoober
It's never said that he absorbed all he could, just all that might threaten his reign, and let's face it, Death and Warlock didn't really try.

Did you see and read the scans that represent a blueprint of how the Omni-verse is structured?...I posted them for you in the previous page I believe.

Thanos absorbed until there was Nothing left
http://img165.imageshack.us/img165/991/allhecouldum7.th.jpg

The only things left in the Multi-verse are Thanos and Warlock
http://img151.imageshack.us/img151/8809/allhecould3sq3.th.jpg
"all that is required are Space and Time, which No longer exist"

Mr Master

Originally posted by darthgoober
He sought to destroy all that might oppose his reign, and everyone that would was INSIDE time and space. So if he set his goal to absorb all that would threaten his reign, then everyone who didn't, wouldn't be targeted.

Ok, let me just put this to rest:

AFTER Thanos Absorbed LT and the Abstracts (which was his THREAT)

"For IF this BAND Could Defy Me...might not OTHERS be equally Foolish?
http://img245.imageshack.us/img245/4746/t6bi7.th.jpg
"Could I ALLOW ANY to question my divine Authority?

"NO....So I CONTINUED to Absorb ALL that MIGHT Threaten my Reign...Until....
http://img381.imageshack.us/img381/2830/t7fq0.th.jpg

"Nothing Remained"
http://img165.imageshack.us/img165/991/allhecouldum7.th.jpg

Originally posted by darthgoober
Now I'm not familiar with the details of the recton, but did they actually alter time or something so that the things he did, didn't actually happen? I've always been under the impression that only his perceived power was changed, but the events that went down still took place. Because if all the events still stand, then LT is more powerful than the Beyonder's best showings by default.

Everything Pre-retcon Beyonder did up until the retcon is Canon, so long as he's acknowledged as Pre-retcon Beyonder.

The retcon was total crap.

Because it was conjured after Beyonder was around for almost Six years.

Beyonder was retconned into a Universe smaller than Eternity.

Beyonder was then retconned into a pocket Universe.

Beyonder was then retconned into Kosmos

Beyonder was then retconned into the "Beyonder essence" within Kosmos, which can collapse the Multi-verse if it dies.

Beyonder was then retconned into the Maker, (a Mortal from that could implode the Universe with a thought) but it went crazy in it's Mortal shell and it became extremely vulnerable, later it was incapacitated and comotosed by Thanos, but the Maker still lives, with the "Beyonder essence" inside.

galan7777777

well, in my oppinion after reading all of the HOTU comics i believe that thanos had no reason to look outside of the multiverse to the other realms since all of the beings that were attacking him were in the plane of reality (the multiverse)..... and though warlock implied that neither he nor death were absorbed because they existed in a plane of reality outside the multiverse, he didnt say that thanos could not have absorbed them had he wanted to, that is just what kept them safe during thanos's rampage

Mr Master

Originally posted by galan7777777
well, in my oppinion after reading all of the HOTU comics i believe that thanos had no reason to look outside of the multiverse to the other realms since all of the beings that were attacking him were in the plane of reality (the multiverse).....

AFTER Thanos Absorbed ALL the Multiversal THREATS (including the Living Tribunal)

Thanos says,

"For IF this BAND (LT and company) Could Defy Me...might not OTHERS be equally Foolish?"

Who do you think he's talking about?

WHO are these OTHERS that might be EQUALLY Foolish?

Then Thanos says,

"Could I ALLOW ANY to question my divine Authority?"

WHO else can question his reign if he just ABSORBED the Living Tribunal?

Then Thanos answers himself,

"NO....So I CONTINUED to Absorb ALL that MIGHT Threaten my Reign...Until...."

Absorbing the Living Tribunal and Eternity was NOT enough, he CONTINUED to Absorb ALL that MIGHT, Threaten his reign, until...

"Nothing Remained"

pheew...I won't explain that again laughing out loud

Originally posted by galan7777777
and though warlock implied that neither he nor death were absorbed because they existed in a plane of reality outside the multiverse, he didnt say that thanos could not have absorbed them had he wanted to, that is just what kept them safe during thanos's rampage

What I explained up top with the scans.

AFTER Thanos Absorbed LT and the Abstracts (which was his THREAT)

"For IF this BAND Could Defy Me...might not OTHERS be equally Foolish?
http://img245.imageshack.us/img245/4746/t6bi7.th.jpg
"Could I ALLOW ANY to question my divine Authority?

"NO....So I CONTINUED to Absorb ALL that MIGHT Threaten my Reign...Until....
http://img381.imageshack.us/img381/2830/t7fq0.th.jpg

"Nothing Remained"
http://img165.imageshack.us/img165/991/allhecouldum7.th.jpg

galan7777777

Originally posted by Mr Master
AFTER Thanos Absorbed ALL the Multiversal THREATS (including the Living Tribunal)

Thanos says,

"For IF this BAND (LT and company) Could Defy Me...might not OTHERS be equally Foolish?"

Who do you think he's talking about?

WHO are these OTHERS that might be EQUALLY Foolish?

Then Thanos says,

"Could I ALLOW ANY to question my divine Authority?"

WHO else can question his reign if he just ABSORBED the Living Tribunal?

Then Thanos answers himself,

"NO....So I CONTINUED to Absorb ALL that MIGHT Threaten my Reign...Until...."

Absorbing the Living Tribunal and Eternity was NOT enough, he CONTINUED to Absorb ALL that MIGHT, Threaten his reign, until...

"Nothing Remained"

pheew...I won't explain that again laughing out loud

What I explained up top with the scans.

AFTER Thanos Absorbed LT and the Abstracts (which was his THREAT)

"For IF this BAND Could Defy Me...might not OTHERS be equally Foolish?
http://img245.imageshack.us/img245/4746/t6bi7.th.jpg
"Could I ALLOW ANY to question my divine Authority?

"NO....So I CONTINUED to Absorb ALL that MIGHT Threaten my Reign...Until....
http://img381.imageshack.us/img381/2830/t7fq0.th.jpg

"Nothing Remained"
http://img165.imageshack.us/img165/991/allhecouldum7.th.jpg yes, nothing that could "threaten his reign" remained. as you said LT and the rest of the abstracts were absorbed (except death)...........so there truly was nothing left which might threaten him, warlock really wouldnt have been a threat has thanos not allowed him to be

dbayin46

hey mr. master, we are still waiting for your pre ret molecule man & living tribunal respect threads. When are they gonna be up? big grin

With regards to the question, I can only speculate about the DC omniverse coz although PR Beyonder was described as having powers millions that of the Marvel Universe, DC is a different company with different hierarchy & powers. And DC has the penchant of exaggerating powers(remember Anti-life as having destroyed trillions of universes)

As I could recall, the Omniverse was only revealed years after the Beyonder's retcon. True, I share the idea that PR Beyonder is THE MOST POWERFUL fictional being created by Marvel(Nonfictional beings include TOAA as Kirby, Mr. Marvel(God?)as Stan Lee himself) but because of the timeline(editorial) involved it would only be open to speculation. The only thing provable, if the Beyonder wasn't retconned, he would kick the ass of all the powers in the Marvel Multiverse(Pre-Omniverse).

Thanos_THOTU

It wasent "a million universes".
It was millions (plural, more than one) of times the rest (Living Tribunal, Eternity ect.) the Multi-verse (not universe) combinded.
http://img431.imageshack.us/my.php?image=beyondermillionsofxmorepowerfu.jpg

Mr Master

Originally posted by galan7777777
yes, nothing that could "threaten his reign" remained. as you said LT and the rest of the abstracts were absorbed (except death)

Yea,

Before, I also used to think Thanos had absorbed only what he wanted to absorb.

But after a closer examination, I realized Thanos Absorbed ALL he could.

Originally posted by galan7777777
...........so there truly was nothing left which might threaten him,

There was Nothing left...period.

Thanos Absorbed the entire Multi-verse, where Universe 616 is located.

But there is an infinite number of other Multiverses in Marvel, but most of these are never and have never been explored.

Originally posted by galan7777777

Warlock was never a threat, regardless.

Warlock survived because he was in a Realm, Thanos could NOT reach. (Outside of Space and Time)

Mr Master

Originally posted by dbayin46
hey mr. master, we are still waiting for your pre ret molecule man & living tribunal respect threads. When are they gonna be up?

I almost have every appearance made by LT, a few issues to go, then I'll be ready to make a full blown respect thread.

I believe I have ALL Molecule Man appearances, and will get that running as soon as finish LT's.

Originally posted by dbayin46
With regards to the question, I can only speculate about the DC omniverse coz although PR Beyonder was described as having powers millions that of the Marvel Universe,

Millions that of the Multi-verse actually.

Originally posted by dbayin46
DC is a different company with different hierarchy & powers. And DC has the penchant of exaggerating powers(remember Anti-life as having destroyed trillions of universes)

That was an exaggeration by mouth and On Panel.

Dr Fate, Darkseid, HighFather, Orion and Etrigen, trapped the ALE in it's own dimension for EVER.

Long enough to prevail!
http://img79.imageshack.us/img79/6483/ale9vf0.th.jpg

"The threat of the ALE is forever ended"....."how"
http://img137.imageshack.us/img137/2096/ale15tr7.th.jpg
the bridging Dimension between our Reality and it's has been eradicated"

Forget about "trillion of universes"

Originally posted by dbayin46
The only thing provable, if the Beyonder wasn't retconned, he would kick the ass of all the powers in the Marvel Multiverse(Pre-Omniverse).

Definitely.

Beyonder is the most powerful character ever created by Marvel.
This basically equals to the Presence of DC (in Power)

Mr Master

I also discovered some fascinating information.

Atleza is More powerful than I ever imagined.

Atleza is not a Universal Anchor.

Atleza actually Anchors the Multi-verse in place.

ALL the Anchors, are Multiversal.

nvrbeenwthagirl

Originally posted by Mr Master
I almost have every appearance made by LT, a few issues to go, then I'll be ready to make a full blown respect thread.

I believe I have ALL Molecule Man appearances, and will get that running as soon as finish LT's.

Millions that of the Multi-verse actually.

That was an exaggeration by mouth and On Panel.

Dr Fate, Darkseid, HighFather, Orion and Etrigen, trapped the ALE in it's own dimension for EVER.

Long enough to prevail!
http://img79.imageshack.us/img79/6483/ale9vf0.th.jpg

"The threat of the ALE is forever ended"....."how"
http://img137.imageshack.us/img137/2096/ale15tr7.th.jpg
the bridging Dimension between our Reality and it's has been eradicated"

Forget about "trillion of universes"

Definitely.

Beyonder is the most powerful character ever created by Marvel.
This basically equals to the Presence of DC (in Power)

I find it interesting that the ALE is described on panel as having destroyed Trillions of Universes, yet the beyonder is described as millions of times more powerful than the marvel U and it's not exaggerated or Hyperbole. What makes one count ( in the case of the beyonder) and the other not count? Your Equating the beyonder to DC's the presence. And that just isn't so. IT seems to me like your just going off of what you feel to justify ur feelings about the beyonder. Having power and knowing how to use it are two different things. The ALE was indeed powerful enough to destroy trillions of universes. If one piece of it in the hands of Darkseid could destroy and remake the DCU. Ur interpretation of how the ALE was defeated is thru a tainted lense. You see what you want to see so that the beyonder can hold up to the most powerful being ever in comics in ur eyes. IN the eyes of those reading the comic from an objective stand point, the ALE was sentient, but Not highly intelligent. If it were, It would have simply erased fate and company. It was nothing more than an enormous Ameoba( did I spell that right) attacking intruders who were messing with it's plans. Had the ALE been as Smart as fate, it would complete own every thing in the DCU and beyond. I wager that Metron or DR. Fate or Darksied with the Full power of the ALE would be a worthy match for the PRe Retconned beyonder. And he wouldn't be able to Defeat them.

Inhuman

nvrbeenwthagirl

Originally posted by Inhuman
Well feats for one erm

Plus it took only a few guys to beat it(seal it).
The WHOLE marvel univese couldnt stop the beyonder.
about the trillions thing....It has also been said that hulk is the strongest there is, but that isnt true.

Darkseid said that. He actually never showed he could.

It was smart enough to be planning its escape for quite a long while.

on panel feats puts the ALE's power probably equal to the Ultimate nullifier.
In feats the infinity gauntlet > ALE.

Not even. The ALE is waaay more powerful than Mr. Mxy and Mr. Mxy can do anything the IG can. So um no. That doesn't work for me. And if The ALE was so smart, it wouldn't have taken it millenia to escape. Metron can pierce universal barriers like it's nothing. Becuz of his knowlege. I'm not buying what your saying. It just seems like you truly see what you want to see. by character description, The ALE and the PRe ret con beyonder are pretty close in power. If we are going by on panel feats, the most powerful being ever is Krona. But We can't go by on panel only. Cuz the comics would be hundreds of pages long trying to show every thing on panel. that is why there are narrative boxes and character commentary. It was done this way to describe the beyonder, and it was done this way to describe the ALE.

galan7777777

Originally posted by Mr Master
Yea,

Before, I also used to think Thanos had absorbed only what he wanted to absorb.

But after a closer examination, I realized Thanos Absorbed ALL he could.

There was Nothing left...period.

Thanos Absorbed the entire Multi-verse, where Universe 616 is located.

But there is an infinite number of other Multiverses in Marvel, but most of these are never and have never been explored.

Warlock was never a threat, regardless.

Warlock survived because he was in a Realm, Thanos could NOT reach. (Outside of Space and Time) yeah, that sounds right....... and can u clear something up for me, during the series where thanos abtains THOTU everyone says he absorbed the multiverse, but nowhere in the books does it say he absorbed the multiverse, in fact thanos says to warlock "only you could somehow miss the end of the UNIVERSE" and later on the same page thanos says "and that is how the UNIVERSE came to an end" what do u make of this?

Inhuman

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
Not even. The ALE is waaay more powerful than Mr. Mxy and Mr. Mxy can do anything the IG can.

prove it.

I dont see what i want to see. Im basing my opinions on actual panel feats. Unlike you. I can write " I can fly" on a peice of paper, but that does not make it so until you see proof.

juggernaut66666

Blah blahh blah you said thanos and the runner can beat parallax no expression

Inhuman

Originally posted by juggernaut66666
Blah blahh blah you said thanos and the runner can beat parallax no expression

never said that. erm

find were I said that.

nvrbeenwthagirl

Originally posted by Inhuman
prove it.

I dont see what i want to see. Im basing my opinions on actual panel feats. Unlike you. I can write " I can fly" on a peice of paper, but that does not make it so until you see proof.

Did not the joker pretty much turn the DCU on it's ear with the power of the IMP? He was only limited by his limited understanding of the IMP power. So yeah, Mr. Mxy can do anything the IG can.

Mr Master

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
I find it interesting that the ALE is described on panel as having destroyed Trillions of Universes, yet the beyonder is described as millions of times more powerful than the marvel U and it's not exaggerated or Hyperbole.

First of all, that has never been said. (If it has, show me where, or point me in the direction, I'll look it up myself, otherwise, it's you talking) shit

Secondly, it was NOT a Character (like Darkseid) making that claim, it was the Writer himself,
plus it was On Panel with ARTWORK depicting Beyonder's ENERGY/POWER (Millions of Times the Multiverse Combined) flowing into him.
http://img431.imageshack.us/img431/7524/beyondermillionsofxmorepowerfu.th.jpg
SEE the FLOW of Energy/Power...NOT just words.

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
What makes one count ( in the case of the beyonder) and the other not count?

Well lets see,

Beyonder CREATED On Panel a Universe roughly 22 Quintillion times Bigger than 616 Universe.

While the ALE was TRAPPED in it's Dimension for EVER, by Fate, Highfather, Darkseid, Orion and Etrigen

"The threat of the ALE is forever ended"....."how"
http://img137.imageshack.us/img137/2096/ale15tr7.th.jpg
the bridging Dimension between our Reality and it's has been eradicated"

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
Your Equating the beyonder to DC's the presence

Beyonder is the most powerful character ever in Marvel

The Presence is the most powerful in DC

Makes perfect sense.

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
IT seems to me like your just going off of what you feel to justify ur feelings about the beyonder.

On Panel FEATS mixed with logic, define my opinions.

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
The ALE was indeed powerful enough to destroy trillions of universes.

hysterical2

How can I ever take you seriously.

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
If one piece of it in the hands of Darkseid could destroy and remake the DCU.

Darkseid has NEVER destroyed and remade the DCU with ONE, or a Million pieces of ALE.

You moving from ignorance to bullshit

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
Ur interpretation of how the ALE was defeated is thru a tainted lense. You see what you want to see so that the beyonder can hold up to the most powerful being ever in comics in ur eyes.

So, you don't see Fate, Highfather, Darkseid, Orion and Etrigen in the above scan Trapping the ALE for EVER?

If not, you trully are the biggest Fanboy ever.

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
IN the eyes of those reading the comic from an objective stand point, the ALE was sentient, but Not highly intelligent.

Continue with this gibberish all you want,

NEVER in the series is it mentioned that the ALE was of a lower intelligence, INFACT,

The ALE displayed an extreme degree of intelligence,

Here, amongst many other FEATS of intelligence by the ALE

JUST an Aspect of the ALE figured out Green Lantern's weakness within an Hour
http://img155.imageshack.us/img155/2694/al1vi1.th.jpg
http://img152.imageshack.us/img152/5953/al2nc9.th.jpg
http://img152.imageshack.us/img152/8884/al3ly7.th.jpg
John Stewart was in absolute shock, that the ALE Aspect could do that.

Go read comics.

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
If it were, It would have simply erased fate and company.

This just proves that it wasn't as powerful as you made it out to be.

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
It was nothing more than an enormous Ameoba( did I spell that right) attacking intruders who were messing with it's plans.

Again, not only are you talking out your ass, but your making stuff up at the same time.

Luckily for you, this Forum is tolerant of such behaviour.

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
Had the ALE been as Smart as fate, it would complete own every thing in the DCU and beyond. I wager that Metron or DR. Fate or Darksied with the Full power of the ALE would be a worthy match for the PRe Retconned beyonder. And he wouldn't be able to Defeat them.

sign23

Your obtuseness demands it.

nvrbeenwthagirl

Originally posted by Mr Master
First of all, that has never been said. (If it has, show me where, or point me in the direction, I'll look it up myself, otherwise, it's you talking) shit

Secondly, it was NOT a Character (like Darkseid) making that claim, it was the Writer himself,
plus it was On Panel with ARTWORK depicting Beyonder's ENERGY/POWER (Millions of Times the Multiverse Combined) flowing into him.
http://img431.imageshack.us/img431/7524/beyondermillionsofxmorepowerfu.th.jpg
SEE the FLOW of Energy/Power...NOT just words.

Well lets see,

Beyonder CREATED On Panel a Universe roughly 22 Quintillion times Bigger than 616 Universe.

While the ALE was TRAPPED in it's Dimension for EVER, by Fate, Highfather, Darkseid, Orion and Etrigen

"The threat of the ALE is forever ended"....."how"
http://img137.imageshack.us/img137/2096/ale15tr7.th.jpg
the bridging Dimension between our Reality and it's has been eradicated"

Beyonder is the most powerful character ever in Marvel

The Presence is the most powerful in DC

Makes perfect sense.

On Panel FEATS mixed with logic, define my opinions.

hysterical2

How can I ever take you seriously.

Darkseid has NEVER destroyed and remade the DCU with ONE, or a Million pieces of ALE.

You moving from ignorance to bullshit

So, you don't see Fate, Highfather, Darkseid, Orion and Etrigen in the above scan Trapping the ALE for EVER?

If not, you trully are the biggest Fanboy ever.

Continue with this gibberish all you want,

NEVER in the series is it mentioned that the ALE was of a lower intelligence, INFACT,

The ALE displayed an extreme degree of intelligence,

Here, amongst many other FEATS of intelligence by the ALE

JUST an Aspect of the ALE figured out Green Lantern's weakness within an Hour
http://img155.imageshack.us/img155/2694/al1vi1.th.jpg
http://img152.imageshack.us/img152/5953/al2nc9.th.jpg
http://img152.imageshack.us/img152/8884/al3ly7.th.jpg
John Stewart was in absolute shock, that the ALE Aspect could do that.

Go read comics.

This just proves that it wasn't as powerful as you made it out to be.

Again, not only are you talking out your ass, but your making stuff up at the same time.

Luckily for you, this Forum is tolerant of such behaviour.

sign23

Your obtuseness demands it.

ur entire debate is riddled with ur take on things and in no way concrete. and your perfect sense is urs and urs alone. It does not make perfect sense to me that you equate the presence with the beyonder. So no, it does not make perfect sense. it makes sense to you, but to me, nothing can equal god, but God. TOAA is Marvel's God is equal to the presence. The pre ret con beyonder is not equal to DC's God. As far as the ALE, it was no where as intelligent as Fate or Darkseid. You are using what you want to see. It being trapped has no baring on it's power lvls. Superboy prime is trapped in a cube. That does all of a sudden negate his power lvls? Or what if thor were banished to the negative zone and he didnt' know how to get back to the marvel u? Does he all of sudden become less powerful? I'm using logic in it's most basic form. And just becuz fate says the threat is forve ended, do we take his word for it? I remember someone on this forum sayign we couldn't take darkseid's words about his own avatars, So why then should we all of a suddent take fate's word's that the threat of The ALE is forver ended?

Mr Master

Originally posted by Inhuman
on panel feats puts the ALE's power probably equal to the Ultimate nullifier.
In feats the infinity gauntlet > ALE.

I don't think so.

UN Erased the Multi-verse and Remade it in an instant.

ALE is definitely MORE powerful than a Universe (Fate and Company were able to destroy a Universe, and the ALE was still more powerful.

But, since Fate and company succeeded in holding off the ALE long enough for them to escape, I put it beneath the UN.

ALE is Multiversal (in the sense that it's more powerful than ONE Universe), but it gave no signs of being able to Erase the Multi-verse.

the Darkone

Originally posted by Mr Master
First of all, that has never been said. (If it has, show me where, or point me in the direction, I'll look it up myself, otherwise, it's you talking) shit

Secondly, it was NOT a Character (like Darkseid) making that claim, it was the Writer himself,
plus it was On Panel with ARTWORK depicting Beyonder's ENERGY/POWER (Millions of Times the Multiverse Combined) flowing into him.
http://img431.imageshack.us/img431/7524/beyondermillionsofxmorepowerfu.th.jpg
SEE the FLOW of Energy/Power...NOT just words.

Well lets see,

Beyonder CREATED On Panel a Universe roughly 22 Quintillion times Bigger than 616 Universe.

While the ALE was TRAPPED in it's Dimension for EVER, by Fate, Highfather, Darkseid, Orion and Etrigen

"The threat of the ALE is forever ended"....."how"
http://img137.imageshack.us/img137/2096/ale15tr7.th.jpg
the bridging Dimension between our Reality and it's has been eradicated"

Beyonder is the most powerful character ever in Marvel

The Presence is the most powerful in DC

Makes perfect sense.

On Panel FEATS mixed with logic, define my opinions.

hysterical2

How can I ever take you seriously.

Darkseid has NEVER destroyed and remade the DCU with ONE, or a Million pieces of ALE.

You moving from ignorance to bullshit

So, you don't see Fate, Highfather, Darkseid, Orion and Etrigen in the above scan Trapping the ALE for EVER?

If not, you trully are the biggest Fanboy ever.

Continue with this gibberish all you want,

NEVER in the series is it mentioned that the ALE was of a lower intelligence, INFACT,

The ALE displayed an extreme degree of intelligence,

Here, amongst many other FEATS of intelligence by the ALE

JUST an Aspect of the ALE figured out Green Lantern's weakness within an Hour
http://img155.imageshack.us/img155/2694/al1vi1.th.jpg
http://img152.imageshack.us/img152/5953/al2nc9.th.jpg
http://img152.imageshack.us/img152/8884/al3ly7.th.jpg
John Stewart was in absolute shock, that the ALE Aspect could do that.

Go read comics.

This just proves that it wasn't as powerful as you made it out to be.

Again, not only are you talking out your ass, but your making stuff up at the same time.

Luckily for you, this Forum is tolerant of such behaviour.

sign23

Your obtuseness demands it.

Dude this is like Super Bowl XXIV when the 49ers smoked the broncos 55-10, and Mr. Master is Joe Montana. I respect you Mr. Master you know wha the hell you are talking about and you back it up with prof/scans. ALE isn't all that got beat by four beings that are below abstracts level Entrigan/Darkseid/Orion/Dr. Fate, IG has more feats and so does the UN, hell the Makers will b***h slap ALE entity with a gesture.

Mr. Master your the man, keep on putting the pimp hamd on his candy ass. wink

nvrbeenwthagirl

It's really simple. He can put scans up, and since he is backing up more popular characters, he is the man. But all of his post say things like, I put the ALE under the UN. and what he thinks. It's all subjective and I happen to be in disagreement. You Darkone can hold his jock all you want. it still doesn't change the fact that he is using his own interpretation of the events, which do not coincide with mine. according to mr master, DC is not equal in power to marvel. becuz every single thing that is powerful in marvel is more powerful than every power in dc.

Inhuman

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
ur entire debate is riddled with ur take on things and in no way concrete. and your perfect sense is urs and urs alone.

makes sense to me and im sure others see it as well.

I stand corrected thumb up

nvrbeenwthagirl

And who said Fate, or Darkseid, or high father were barely sky father lvl beings? They all have showings that put them much higher than sky father in power. If the entire story is read with a subjective eye, then one can tell that the ale could have obliterated them at any time. you guys take story thematics and drama that serve to put the heroes in dire situation and then show them as coming out on top, as if that makes the threat any less than it actually was. If you don't take the thematic approach into context when you read the story, you will over estimate some characters whom you like, and find it very easily to severly under estimate any character that you dont' want to be equal or better to ur favorite character.

Mr Master

Originally posted by galan7777777
yeah, that sounds right....... and can u clear something up for me, during the series where thanos abtains THOTU everyone says he absorbed the multiverse, but nowhere in the books does it say he absorbed the multiverse, in fact thanos says to warlock "only you could somehow miss the end of the UNIVERSE" and later on the same page thanos says "and that is how the UNIVERSE came to an end" what do u make of this?

They refer to it as the Universe, but it's the Multi-verse.

Sometimes ALL Eternity (the Multi-verse) is titled the Universe.

Here's an example:

Roma Oversees the Entire Multi-verse personally,
http://img163.imageshack.us/img163/1483/roma1fh6.th.jpg
And the Omni-verse with her Father Merlin.

Roma says Understanding the Universe is hard enough, but she tends to Eternity (the Multi-verse)
http://img163.imageshack.us/img163/32/roma2cd9.th.jpg
"Within it, ALL that ever was, ever is or ever will be exists"

Roma calls the being she tends to, "Eternity" (which is ONE Universe) but we all know she tends to Multi-Eternity, the Multi-verse

One more example:

When Captain Universe showed Reed and Druid the TRUE Origin of the Universe prior to 616, that later became the Multi-verse, he calls it Multi-Eternity, then in the next panel, he says, with in "ALL the Eternity the UNIVERSE is a place of chaos".....
http://img267.imageshack.us/img267/7421/multieternity16do.th.jpg
http://img89.imageshack.us/img89/859/multi29aa.th.jpg

So sometimes you might see the word Universe or Eternity, but it's the storyline that defines who they are exactly.

For instance,

if you didn't read the whole Abraxas arc, and you reach the end when they erase Eternity, you wouldn't know that was the Multi-verse unless you knew the complete storyline.

nvrbeenwthagirl

Originally posted by Mr Master
They refer to it as the Universe, but it's the Multi-verse.

Sometimes ALL Eternity (the Multi-verse) is titled the Universe.

Here's an example:

Roma Oversees the Entire Multi-verse personally,
http://img163.imageshack.us/img163/1483/roma1fh6.th.jpg
And the Omni-verse with her Father Merlin.

Roma says Understanding the Universe is hard enough, but she tends to Eternity (the Multi-verse)
http://img163.imageshack.us/img163/32/roma2cd9.th.jpg
"Within it, ALL that ever was, ever is or ever will be exists"

Roma calls the being she tends to, "Eternity" (which is ONE Universe) but we all know she tends to Multi-Eternity, the Multi-verse

One more example:

When Captain Universe showed Reed and Druid the TRUE Origin of the Universe prior to 616, that later became the Multi-verse, he calls it Multi-Eternity, then in the next panel, he says, with in "ALL the Eternity the UNIVERSE is a place of chaos".....
http://img267.imageshack.us/img267/7421/multieternity16do.th.jpg
http://img89.imageshack.us/img89/859/multi29aa.th.jpg

So sometimes you might see the word Universe or Eternity, but it's the storyline that defines who they are exactly.

For instance,

if you didn't read the whole Abraxas arc, and you reach the end when they erase Eternity, you wouldn't know that was the Multi-verse unless you knew the complete storyline.

Ok so here, it's ok to use subjectivity. I'm beggining to see and understand things more and more now.

Mr Master

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
ur entire debate is riddled with ur take on things and in no way concrete. and your perfect sense is urs and urs alone. It does not make perfect sense to me that you equate the presence with the beyonder. So no, it does not make perfect sense. it makes sense to you, but to me, nothing can equal god, but God. TOAA is Marvel's God is equal to the presence. The pre ret con beyonder is not equal to power lvls? Or what if thor were banished to the negative zone and he didnt' know how to get back to the marvel u? Does he all of sudden become less powerful? I'm using logic in it's most basic form. And just becuz fate says the threat is forve ended, do we take his word for it? I remember someone on this forum sayign we couldn't take darkseid's words about his own avatars, So why then should we all of a suddent take fate's word's that the threat of The ALE is forver ended?

blahblah