What makes Jack happy? -

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LovelyOne
This is what I believe about Jack in the series..and how happy he really is..and how he actually NEEDS Elizabeth in his life..and this isn't just from movie 2..no no..this is from movie 1 and 2..and even from the little evidence we have of Jacks past

You know what I think means the world to Jack??

the fact that Liz has actually seen him at his very weakest point (movie 1) she's learned that the man he is now is not what he used to be..and she STILL has faith in him to be brave for her and that must mean the WORLD to Jack Sparrow..

He is so low in self confidence..he really is..and Liz just boosts it for him.

that whole front he puts on with his material objects etc and the fact he acts so desperate like a little lost KID when they are taken away shows us that he is really low in self respect and confidence and he needs those things in his life to help build up the lie of being brave and strong..This kind of life is UNHEALTHY for ANYONE..yes EVEN JACK SPARROW

Liz actually makes him brave and confident..and he starts to let those material things go..I think that is so important to notice..he becomes so amazingly brave when it comes to Liz..and he lets those things that he thought were once so important.. go..

She is like the answer to his drug problem where he relies on material things to feel "strong" on a SHORT TERM BASIS..she is the LONG TERM ANSWER to his strength and happiness..movie 2 made that SO SO obvious..where he's now strong enough to leave his material things behind..the VERY ship he traded his own SOUL for only years before..the man is basically going through REHAB lol

this is why I cant actually imagine Jack Sparrow returning to the way he was for a happy ending...cuz the man aint happy AT ALL when we see him in movie 1 the beach scene showed us this rare glimpse..He's like a little child screaming out for love to make himself feel strong and he's just not getting it..so he is CRUMBLING as a human being..its obvious in movie 1..and its even MORE THAN OBVIOUS in movie 2..

so waving it in front of him in movie 2 and then ripping it away from him by movie 3..i think would be the single most CRUELEST ending for the character of Jack sparrow

honestly the man is NOT a happy man when we meet him in movie 1..and for him to end up like that again in movie 3 is just so very VERY cruel..and I honestly would hate Disney for ending it on such a downer for Jack..

sailorleo
yes i think you have a solid theory but, will she be enough...you related to drug use but what happens if he goes back to his old ways, craving for more and more, like we see so often with people abusing drugs..or well anytihng....

Bwa Ha Ha
totally

LovelyOne
Originally posted by sailorleo
yes i think you have a solid theory but, will she be enough...you related to drug use but what happens if he goes back to his old ways, craving for more and more, like we see so often with people abusing drugs..or well anytihng....

exactly..

you think that disney would end him like that?..basically a weak and broken man with a drug problem

Thats a horrible ending for him sad

Jack almsot became happy and then it got ripped away from him

I know people think that he is a happy man the way he is but he's really not..even Johhny says the most telling moment for his character is the beach scene in movie 1..it shows you how desperate and loney he really is underneath that material shell..

Bwa Ha Ha
indeed

sailorleo
Originally posted by LovelyOne
exactly..you think that disney would end him like that?/basically a weak man witha drug problem

Thats a horrible ending for him sad it is but is liz gonna be the cure...will she be enough...hee heh...n/m just realized who i was talking to.....

-savvychick-
I agree with you lovelyone, ending with jack still relying on material objects would basically mean that the characters havent developed at all, and then what would the point of making the sequels to the first one be, if its just to end right back where they started?

it kind of a cruel ending to the movies, rather then a happy one, especially because disney must know that jack sparrow made this movie, and if he got a taste of how it felt to be brave, then had it ripped from him, he'd probably be even less happy then he was in the first one, relying only on his possessions

it would be cruel to the audience as well really, having all those clues, then having the ending right back where they started, that would mean the second one was just to keep the story going, really just a road bump, but hopefully when the third movie comes out, we'll learn that it was more then that!!!

Bwa Ha Ha
totally

katelovespirate
seriously they wont do it.

Jack is the star, and despite all the rumors abounding, it appears the writers/director/producer understand this. They will not give Jack an unsatisfactory ending... that would be madness.

Somehow, with Liz or not, Jack is going to turn full on hero IMO... not saying he will lose the wonderful piraty-ness we love about him, but he will become a more WHOLE person, with a better understanding of himself and the world.

The most brilliant way of doing this would of course be putting him and Liz together somehow.

There has been a lot of hype about the fact that Kiera gets to play with 2 swords in this one.... i think that is symbolic to that fact that she suddenly is juggling two men and trying to figure out what to do with them... ya know?

ALso, the moment where Will wakes up aboard the Pearl after they leave Isla Cruses is meant to recall the first time he and liz meet at the beginning of 1. TO ME, this seems like things have come full circle for Liz and Will. They met, were childhood sweethearts, got engaged, had lots of adventures, saw more of the world, realized how different they were, and are now back at the beginning. So where is the cycle going this time? Possibly in a new direction as the characters mature. This part is almost a tying up and saying goodbye to all that has passed between them before. The first time Will wakes up in 1, he cant take his eyes off Elizabeth. She discovers he is a pirate. The second time it happens, WIll doesnt care about Liz at all, he's all concerned with the chest and his dad. AND he realizes SHE is a pirate.

moral compasses have to be similar. Right now, they arent. Will MIGHT turn full pirate and therefore put himself on par with Liz, but otherwise, its not going to work.

And Jack is already RIGHT ON CUE with Liz.

LovelyOne
with Jack though..they have actually made it so its the theme of love that he needs..I cant imagine him not getting it and then being happy ever after..it would still be cruel to rip it away from him..

Bwa Ha Ha
totally

-savvychick-
I think that Will and Liz were never really in actual love, true, they loved each other, but i think it was more in a brother/sister type way then a lover type way.

There's also the fact that Will is more concentrated on his dad and Liz on Jack at the end of the second movie, which kind've sets it up to be that way in the third movie too.

What other way would Jack find a way to be happy all the time though??? The only way I can see that happening is for him to be with Liz. Anybody else have ideas about what else might make him happy?

Bwa Ha Ha
rum?

-savvychick-
lol, yeah, but rum was also a short term thing to make him happy in the 1st one...I dont think that could keep him happy, i mean, he's gotta sober up some timesmile

katelovespirate
Originally posted by LovelyOne
with Jack though..they have actually made it so its the theme of love that he needs..I cant imagine him not getting it and then being happy ever after..it would still be cruel to rip it away from him..

yeah im right with you.

aside from this, i simply cant make it work in my head that liz and jack will end up together- it seems to be obvious to the rest of the world.

but this argument gets me every time: Jack is the MAIN CHARACTER and he obviously WANTS Elizabeth and has since 1. It is NOT a passing fancy or simply physical attraction (and if it was meant to be, the actors played it all wrong)... it is a very deep and serious attraction to who she is and what she represents in his life. the audience WANTS Jack to win in the end. Unless its shown that, oh just kidding, Jack doesnt actually want Liz that much, then even the will/liz fans will feel disappointment if Jack is disappointed. And they CANT pull back now and say Jack doesnt want Liz without ruining his character.

That's the dilemma for me. The idea that jack MUST get what he is after (liz) trumps any notion of disney ideals, or it should anyways.

-savvychick-
wasnt the movie originally supposed to be about the will/liz relationship though, and jack was just there to make it have some excitment to it, instead of turning into another classic disney story??? this whole thing is just driving me nuts!!!

willofthewisp
Lol, sailor, LovelyOne is pretty unbending about this subject, and I mean that as a compliment.

If love is all he wants, then I think Liz would be enough for him. He loves her, his Pearl, and his freedom. We don't know if he will get the Pearl back, but he'll have his freedom AND her, and I think he feel that completion he's wanted with her.

katelovespirate
Originally posted by -savvychick-
wasnt the movie originally supposed to be about the will/liz relationship though, and jack was just there to make it have some excitment to it, instead of turning into another classic disney story??? this whole thing is just driving me nuts!!!

yes... the writers saw 1 essentially as a love story, with Elizabeth meant to be the main character. However, they never said they saw it as a Will/Liz love story.

We all know, however, that no matter how much we love Keira and Orlando and Jack Davenport etc, the movie would have been a total flop without Jack Sparrow. He MADE the films a legend, became an instant icon.

However, in the original script for the first film, there was also a lot more tension and chemistry shown between Liz and Jack. Barbossa actually warned Jack not to fall in love with Elizabeth, when it was clear Jack already was. The writers have pulled a lot of those themes (which couldnt fit in 1) into two and three.

The writers have come to realize that Jack is the money, and we see that in how they wrote 2. Its all Jack's adventure.

And now more than ever, i hope they understand that people love the movie because they love Jack, and the 3rd one will sink or not sink depending on how happy they make Jack. big grin

LovelyOne
Honestly..Its obvious in movie 1 that the man is desperate for some sort of rock in his life..something that he can feel safe and brave with no matter what...his way of life is really unhealthy where a person relies too heavily on inanimate objects to feel strong and brave..its just like an alcoholic or a person with a drug problem...they give you a short term fix..but when they are gone..and the reality hits them they come CRASHING down on a huge emotional low..and we see Jack do this when everything is taken away from him and burned in movie 1..he was completley beside himself with confusion, fear and anger..the master of words was reduced to "no..stop!! not good..STOP!"..he almost murdered Elizabeth for gods sake..

athough that was pretty funny to watch..

LovelyOne
also the whole "why is the rum always gone" call back to that weak moment he shared with Liz in movie 1..is ALL the more sigificant

they are basically saying that Liz is what Jack has needed since movie 1 to feel strong in life..

katelovespirate
Indulge me for a moment. I'm trying to sound out this all-important line. Its like a riddle. I'm just going to ramble.

Jack must find his place in the new world or perish.

Jack is trying to find his place with the compass, which points at Liz.

Will's fiance must also find her place in the new world or perish. Her compass also points at Jack.

The new world VS. At worlds end. the world as they know it is ending. the lives they once lived are ending.

jack's already has, so to speak.

liz and will's relationship-- the way it was--- is over as well. the trust is gone.

Jack must find his place in the new world or perish. so its a choice, one or the other. he perished. so that choice no longer stands. right?

You and your fiance face the hangman's noose. If Liz was no longer Will's fiance, she would no longer face the hangman's noose. Presumably, nor would he.

Beckett implies that Will must find a place in HIS world. Will must join Beckett or perish.

Jack chose to perish.

Will chose to find a place in Becketts world, by going after Jack's compass for him. This was to save Elizabeth. However, his pre-occupation with his dad overcame his need to save Elizabeth. He fell out of Beckett's world in order to try and save his father. Now Will must perish... unless he and Elizabeth are no longer together?

Finding your place. This involves directions. Can we trust the compass Jack and Liz are using? Note: they are both using the same compass. AKA: they have the same moral compass.

Will WANTS to obtain the compass, but never does. He never uses it. AKA He WANTS to have the same moral compass as Elizabeth, but he doesnt. Instead of taking directions from Will (keep a weather eye on the horizon, guard the chest, etc) She CHOOSES to take directions from Captain Jack Sparrow.

In turn, Jack trusts her to lead him to what he needs- the chest- the heart. He takes directions from her.

They both find their place because of each other. Jack finds his place as hero, Liz finds her place as pirate.

Will is still lost, searching for his place. will it be Son? Lover? Villian? Pirate? Betrayer?

Am i just going around in circles?

sailorleo
im dizzy but i think i got it...

Chiki Mina
It is obvious that there was something missing in jacks life. He thought he had it all but obviously he wanted something more but was to afraid to say or to show it bc it might make him look naive or weak. But not until he realised his true feelings for liz that he noticed that it actually makes him stronger and gives him a purpose to live and to fight and to protect ur loved ones. Liz was the one who showed him that yet liz does not want to show her own feelings. she didnt expect to get that far with her feelings with jack until boom it hit her heart and that freaked her out.

katelovespirate
in my world, its not so much Jack MISSING something as Jack CHANGING. the single pirate with stuff thing was fine for a period of time in his life, but the world IS changing. He is changing as a person, growing.

IMO Jack doesnt know who he is in 1. He thinks he is much more evil than he actually is. We all see that heart of gold from the minute he risks his all-important freedom to save a random girl who falls off a tower.

So the key is helping Jack see that he is a hero at heart, and its okay!!!! He can be a pirate-hero! This is what Elizabeth is trying to show him.

LovelyOne
jack didnt choose to perish lol..liz basically made the old part of himself die and the new part is coimg up..ALL cuz of her lol

in the movie she actually MAKES jack change./..makes the old part die..i dont mean physically I mean mentally..

but it also happens physically..as a sort of baptism..to prove that its going to happen..visible proof

but great observations!!

i'll read more 2moz cuz im sweepy night xx

Chiki Mina
yea im going to bed too i have my classes tomorow uhg. nighties

Jacky Sparrow
I agree with you, that he was lonly in part 1. what underlines this is that he said to will when they are in tortuga.

"If every town was like this one, no man would ever feel unwanted! "

For me, it's like he's admitting that he feels unwanted, unloved. Or why else should he say that?

taurusbaby0509
KLP, you brought up some loopholes I hadn't thought of and now I'm really excited to see how the third turns out. Not that I wasn't before but now it's like renewed! Much like LovelyOne said about the baptism. haha baptism of excitement for the movie! hahaha ok, I'm really tired... I might be delirious. </3 8am classes.

LovelyOne
The dog was added in to show us what is REALLY going on with jack..because he is SUCH an enigma..they need to add something that basically tells us whats REALLY going on with Jack Sparrow.

Lots of people dont believe me but when you actually look at the dog in both movies..its basically JACK..the way it reacts and behaves is just like Jack..and what we see it do in movie 1 and 2 basically mirrors what Jack does mentaly and physically..in both movies

and everything the dog does suggests that Jack has embraced love and given up his old way of life..and he is now a triumphant king because of that..

You look at the dog in movie 1..he was terrified to take the bone(love)..he wanted it BADLY when it was just one person tempting him but was so afraid that he ran away still clinging onto his keys (old way of life material objects)

a bone is what a dog SHOULD want in life..remember that lol...it fits perfectly..

Liz and Jack..they fit perfectly

the fact that one of the writers rules is "never kill the dog"(movie 1 commentary) which means rogue/trickster of the story makes sense because the dog in the story is JACK..thats why they added him in..why randomly add a dog into a story if it means nothing at all??..jack doesnt die and either does the dog...everything the dog does..Jack mirrors..its right there on screen for all to see..Its basically telling you whats really going on with Jack in both movies..beneath all the swaying on the spot..the riddles...his confusion..his false image..


underneath he is a man who is craving love but is terrified to take it..and this was before movie 2...the dog makes it all too clear..he's basically the thing that shows us what jack is REALLY about underneath the enigma we see on screen. Thats why the dog was added into the movies IMO

Chiki Mina
^^ yeah
Jack mirrors the dog, as will also mirrors davey.
and liz probably mirrors the chest/key/heart

LovelyOne
YEP smile

someone just said something that makes so much sense..Liz as a character would be completley rejected if she broke Jack's heart by the end of it..she didn't actually break jacks heart in movie 2..she made him want her all the more (although lots of blind people think she did break his heart) which is why her character is getting so much hate at the moment..but if in the long run she leaves with Will..this would leave jack heart broken and people would reject her character..and Will's

Chiki Mina
it will make ppl actualy hate liz character even more-and wills. Ppl will feel sorry for jack and then the ratings will go miseribly down. IMO i think ppl will be happy that Will could accept Lixs change of heart-since jack is actually the main character but that doesnt mean ppl dont hate will(well maybe some who are too obsessed). I even think they're gonna like the characters more. They certainly canot risk a hate against liz and will even though jack is OUR MAIN character, so are liz and will.

calypso
In the commentaries to COTBP T/T actually say that characterization is the most important part of a movie...movies come and go, but to remember a movie you remember the characters first...who could forget
CAPTAIN Jack Sparrow...

katelovespirate
hmmm yeah, if Liz and Jack DONT end up together, it HAS to be because Jack no longer wants it to happen that way.

But its a catch 22- what would make Jack change his mind about something he was willing to DIE FOR?~

If Jack still wants Liz, then thats it, he HAS to get her or everyone will hate Liz and Will. its as simple as that.

except its not simple cause we still dont know!!!!!
ARHGG!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Chiki Mina
Jack is not the type of person to risk his life

To risk his life for a woman, to face the kraken...now theres something u dont see from jack sparrow, so ppl are all like "is that really CAPTAIN Jack Sparrow..?"

if he wants something so bad he will do anything. But he would only do anything for treassure and of course his ship.

Every one knows taht jacks love is, well actually was, his ship and treassureso he would do anything but that was before he had feelings for elizabeth.

It would be rather silly if jack says "nah lizzie it was just a thing u know. be with will im just gonna go into me pearl and be who i used to be with women and rum"..............wtf..................
^^ I doubt mr sparrow would risk EVERYTHING including his beloved pearl just to say "no Liz"..nu uh

RoguePw25
Originally posted by Bwa Ha Ha
totally

Bwa Ha Ha, please try not to spam like that. Many of your post in this thread have been like this. Try to give your opinion, adding something to the discussion. Thanks.

ivebeendepped43
lol OOOHHHHH!!!!! DISSED!!!!!!!

LovelyOne
I know this is really offtopic..but does anyone else notice how Jack's mustache is actualy kinda coming off his face after that kiss?? laughing out loud sorry I find that hilarious..one passionalte kiss!

-savvychick-
it is??? i never noticed that before laughing out loud lol

katelovespirate
woah definately did not notice that!!!!!


but their mouths were all over the place. wink

ever watch where their hands go??

and people try to say she was just doing it for will, PLEASE people, watch the bodies. you cant fake body language.

LovelyOne
yeh lol..it's like going across his lip(the left side of his top lip)..where it should be on top of it lmfao..and I think there is a white patch where its supppsed to be..where the makeup team didnt tan him up cuz the tache was there..laughing out loud

katelovespirate
LOL, the tache. thats hottt.


woah, now there are three t's to hottt. it just keeps gaining t's. LOL.


maybe Keira was having a bet with him to see if her tongue was skilled enough to get it off. LOL...

ivebeendepped43
no, i never did! i gotta go back and watch it! *goes to youtube and watches it* omg it is!!!! i NEVER noticed that! thats hilarious! gosh i love Johnny! he has so much experience /w kissing and thats what makes it so hott!!!

LovelyOne
LOL yeah that would be funny..I'm wondering if the directors left that ther for a joke??

yeh she still has her other hand on his right shoulder..the whole time..even after she chained him up..its not for Will..she wants this man BADLY..i mean the very things she does after that kiss suggests that its NOT will on her mind lol

and it was actually jacks reaction that triggered her off to try and kiss him again..its as soon as he looks at her lips..the music changes as soon as he does this and Liz goes in as if to kiss him..the music doesnt change when she decides to try and kiss him again..I always thought it was odd how it changed a bit early..but then i noticed that he slightly propmts her to do it before she does..(looks at her lips..smirk falls)

she was looking at his lips..wanting to kiss him again..and as soon as he shows the slightest hint that he wants to kiss her again..she leaps at the chance lmao

ivebeendepped43
Originally posted by katelovespirate



maybe Keira was having a bet with him to see if her tongue was skilled enough to get it off. LOL... eeww!! dont even wanna thing about that sslutbag trying to do that 2 MY man!!! if anyone is gunna lick off his mustache, it better b me or Vanessa!

katelovespirate
but its so interesting that even though Jack obviously is quite a kisser, he doesnt care to prove it or something....

he isnt like, in a battle with her to out-kiss her. He isn't showing off. he's just drinking her in... know what I mean?

thats why I find it so hott... he seems so vulnerable. he lets her push him against the mast, and she's being agressive while he's being almost tender, (still hott and passionate, but almost like he cant believe he's getting to taste her, and he wants to savour the moment.)

its so erotic. i love that word. its just so sensual. its a REAL KISS. its communication when words are CLEARLY not enough.

everything that needed to be said between those two characters was said in that kiss. except the wedding date.

ivebeendepped43
the kiss was great bc of Johnny, thats it!! not freakin Keira who tries to freakin hard! she is like, trying to eat his face, and Johnnyjust plays along. hes probably thinking "This girl tries WAY too hard. Im too old 4 her anyways. I wonder what Vanessa'll think of this little teenage girl trying to eat me" lol lmbo!!! rofl!! im so funny! i cant stop laughing!~!!!

katelovespirate
no way. dont kill the dream man.


johnny and keira have amazing chemistry, there for the world to see. Keira isn't a teenager anymore anyways, and she certainly is much more mature than all that. and they are serious actors. vanessa has nothing to do with the pirate movies.

plus Keira's gorgeous. Jack wants Elizabeth, Elizabeth wants Jack. it came across.

she and johnny both make the kiss amazing. she doesnt try too hard- she is playing it consistently with her character, a mix of pent-up passion and fear and nervousness and revelry.

they fit together. its beautiful.

LovelyOne
Originally posted by katelovespirate
but its so interesting that even though Jack obviously is quite a kisser, he doesn't care to prove it or something....

he isnt like, in a battle with her to out-kiss her. He isn't showing off. he's just drinking her in... know what I mean?

thats why I find it so hott... he seems so vulnerable. he lets her push him against the mast, and she's being agressive while he's being almost tender, (still hott and passionate, but almost like he cant believe he's getting to taste her, and he wants to savour the moment.)

its so erotic. i love that word. its just so sensual. its a REAL KISS. its communication when words are CLEARLY not enough.

everything that needed to be said between those two characters was said in that kiss. except the wedding date.

I agree with you SO MUCH

she did EVERYTHING and he just let her do it...and its not cuz he doesn't want her..its because he DOES..and he is completely taken aback by her..he's like OMFG i'm being kissed by the woman I have wanted for SO LONG!..he treats her SO differently to his other omen..I bet usually he's really rough etc..h treats her like she is precious and he doesn't want to spoil her..so thats why he just lets her do things at her own pace..he doesn't force..and I think thats going to be SO important as a theme in movie 3..if its going to be about Will trying to break Jack/Liz up..cuz he thinks he;s "STEALING" his woman..when its actually ALL her ..she's falling for him on her OWN..she's not being stolen at all..she's just falling for him naturally..as is Jack to her..he's not forceful..he just lets it flow..

what I also love is how as soon as he says "pirate" she does that thing where she sort of sways her head and he just follows her eyes and sort of does the same thing..and he's really right in her face until she leaves..he's like just not dropping that gaze until she leaves him there..and is long gone..

and I think she kissed him like that because Liz was friggin GAGGING for it throughout the movie..it wasn't because she was trying too hard..and Jacks character is sort of..very "weak in the knees" when it comes to Liz..its obvious from the offset of movie 2..

katelovespirate
COMPLETELY agree with you Lovelyone!!!! smile


and not only that, but this kiss is a serious kiss.... in the sense that, it is not saying "Oh thank you Jack, I'm going to give you a kiss!" or a "wow you look good, suddenly i'm inspired to kiss you."

No.... this kiss is the kind of kiss that leads straight to one thing.

its saying, if we had time, these clothes would be off.

its saying, i want you here and now.

it says everything. its amazing.

ivebeendepped43
ppsssh ur all against me. i support the Jack/Liz ship, yet, ironically, i hate Johnny /w keira. its hard 4 me, u guys have no idea whow complex my mind is on this stuff. no one understands. and YES Vanessa has something to do with the movie!she...........um...............uh...........you see................ok, fine! the only thing is that shes JOhnny's girl and Johnny stars in the movie. i think SHE should b Elizabeth. that would b ssexxi. i wanna c the kiss THEN! dang that would b hott!!!

LovelyOne
yes I agree with you so much katelovespirate..especially on Liz's behalf..its like she was just waiting..completely caught up in his eyes expecting more but Jack had to make her leave cuz she would actually die if she stayed much longer..he had to prompt her to go so that she could get away before mr kraken arrives

you would actually think that they would have sex right then and there had the kraken not appeared..

thats why its a giant vagina (spewing out what not) and he jumps RIGHT into it..all cocky and confident "hello beastie"..cuz i BET thats where that whole situation would have lead had the kraken NOT appeared lmao

its supposed to resemble that they would have had sex right then and there had they had more time IMO.

and I'vebeendepped..its only a movie..as actors they understand that its not really real..its just part of the job..

ivebeendepped43
i think they sould have died together. that would b tight

katelovespirate
no one likes a sad Jack.

what makes Jack happy? lots of kisses with hott lizzie.

so give him what he wants so we can have a good movie! big grin

night guys.

ivebeendepped43
w/e night. i guess Johnny understands.

LovelyOne
yeh true^^
------------------------------
Its not even as if she had to make such a meal out of that kiss to distract him(like when she pushed him back she was being SO rough) It didnt even have to be so rough..she was just totally taking advantage of the moment..and she was probably wanting it to go to the next thing IMO..

I think with Jack.. the very thought of her kissing him would be enough to distract him..even a soft kiss would have totally distracted him because he was only interested in being soft there..and he really wanted her too..

With Jack he's actually at the love stage..and liz is still totally in the heat/ lust stage..that has time to channge in movie 3 lol..

I'm off to bed now lol..its 5 am lmao

katelovespirate
yes totally.... there were many other ways to distract Jack. Just a light kiss, or a look, or saying something, or honestly just pushing him against the mast. Jack was in a vulnerable, serious state there, and she knew it.

to me, when she saw him rowing away, she probably muttered something to herself like "if i ever get my hands on him again, i'll chain him to a sinking ship"... cause she was tired and angry and terrified of the kraken.
then when he came back, there was a huge moment when Liz was like, why did i ever doubt him? he's a good man, I know that! and she holds on to him like he is the only stable thing in her life, the only one who can protect her and fight for her.

but combatting all that is every instinct she's been raised with-- she suddenly sees what her feelings for Jack really are and it scares her, plus she doesnt want to die. She still has to go save her daddy, remember? Plus Will is in danger, along with the crew that she cares about.

So she makes the tough decision, she's going to chain him to the mast. She walks towards him, heart pounding, wishing he didn't look so beautiful or whatever, while the crew is loading the long boat.

She's trying to make it easier for herself, but the closer she gets, the more she is looking at his lips... thinking, oh gosh i just need one taste... i';m going to do the right thing here, save the crew... but i just need one taste.
and finally she's just like screw everything, i am TAKING the taste I want.

dont know why i just rambled off there... i was just trying to think it out.

i think the plan to chain him came before the plan to kiss him... in her mind... the kiss was something for herself, and for him.

i hate how people still try to tell me the kiss wasnt real for liz, she just did it to save will.
if thats true, Elizabeth's character no longer holds any appeal to the audience. if it weren't obvious she really cared about Jack and was just confused, i would hate her. If she had just tricked jack and let him die to save will, i would hate her. i think most people would, cause most people like jack most.

LovelyOne
Totally agree..and if it meant nothing..then the few seconds after that kiss..?? what the heck were THEY about?laughing out loud..these people are so BLIND..are they deliberately blind though??


Also If they weren't going to add in the kiss(T&T)...my bets are on her using a sword to "persuade" him into the shackles (would make sense of the earlier scene) and it still would have had the sexual reference there...then if she did that little brush up against his mouth after doing THAT instead of a full on kiss..then it would have been ALL too obvious where the triangle was going.

the decision she made..it really makes me wonder..people say its to save Will..but thats not really a selfish act IMO..thats more of the honorable deed to save many and losing the life of one..I honestly see it as her just removing the temptation..It matches in so much better with all the denial she was going through when ever there was the thought of Jack in her mind...I personally think that she freaked out when he came back for her..because he just showed her that he loves her basiclly and she was scaaarreedd...and in massive denial.

willofthewisp
"the decision she made..it really makes me wonder..people say its to save Will..but thats not really a selfish act IMO..thats more of the honorable deed to save many and losing the life of one.."----LovelyOne

Not to shoot you down, but one COULD still interpret it as selfish. Pirates are all about letting others die to save their own skin. Thus the whole "keep to the code" bit. Jack doesn't even have a good answer when Will questions the code, he just changes the subject and turns it back on Will.
If you decide to save yourself and others by screwing over someone else, it's still selfish. She's selling him out in this scene, whether you're a Will/Liz or a Jack/Liz. She's leaving him there to die rather than the much harder "come with us and we'll find a way to defeat all the enemies together." It's a pretty piratey thing that she does.

So I believe what you believe about why she did it, but it can still be interpreted as a selfish, pirate act even if it was all about saving herself and the others.

LovelyOne
thats very true actually..

it was probably a mixture of reasons why she did it..and I feel that jack was going to stay there anyway lol..i often wonder if she knew it too..and she just thought she would be his little pirate before he died..

she saw him leave, come back and face death for her..why would he not do the same thing only seconds later..even they way he talks in the next scene suggests that he's made his mind up..he's deciding to stay on the pearl so that the new thing in his life can get away safe..and she seems to make it all about him/her..as in she makes him be tied down to her..

evilm0nki3
She was acting on selfish impulse lol

ivebeendepped43
lol knew she couldnt resist! lol

Chiki Mina
yup and he sure couldnt resist either wink

ivebeendepped43
rolleyes1

CaptinJackLover
well, he couldnt!

Chiki Mina
if i was liz i wouldnt even gave a second thought id jump on him on bed probably breaking it lool

CaptinJackLover
lol i wouldnt even have enough time to get to the bed...id be all over him right there right then! i wouldnt waste my time looking for a pointless bed! Jack shouldny have his time wasted big grin

Chiki Mina
LMAO^^ SO TRUE. why bother having a bed if we could do it anywhere lol. ok this is getting very porn-ish lol.

willofthewisp
I just have to hand it to the guy...if I were a guy and the girl I had been wanting the whole time all of sudden pounced on me, I wouldn't just stand there and let her dominate. We all want to see Jack get into it, carry her into his cabin and undress her and kiss her up and down and all that fun, passionate, sexy stuff. But he lets her do it and just soaks in it. You gotta give him credit for that.

katelovespirate
yeah i LOVE the way it plays out. its perfect.... oddly... the perfect mix of everything....

it just feels REAL and GRITTY and PASSIONATE and confusing and everything.... REAL, not some romantic fairy-tale kiss while the rainbow is overhead... but the desperate unleashing of passion and feeling while they are on the edge of death, betrayal... all that...

and she does dominate in a way... which i find very exciting... just that even though Jack flirted with her and seemed confident she would come over to his side, he underestimated them both in a way... and he is surprised at what she is doing... so much so that he is just drinking it in.

it proves that he thinks of her differently than other girls.

he just seems completely sated.... he cant do anything but just taste her, ya know? he cant be his normal jack self around her... cant think about how to get her in bed or anything... he's just so overwhelmed by her... ahhhh, its beautiful.
its poignant.

and you can tell Liz is trying to get her fill of him as fast as possible... trying to get as much of him as she can in a short amount of time... and then almost changes her mind and stays with him...

willofthewisp
Wow, Kate. You blew me away with that answer. It was just worded so romantically. I think every girl just wants to take a guy's breath away. It's so well displayed by Johnny Depp (and indirectly from Keira) that she's all he can see, all he can think about there.

katelovespirate
OH GEEE>.... (sighs romantically) yes thats what every girl wants... to take a guy's breath away... to offer her beauty to him while he offers his strength to her. sigh.... i love it.

LOL... these movies really are pretty neat to get us all so involved and emotionally caught up in it all. well done, pirates people.

willofthewisp
Lol, we're all building up this love story that several people are saying won't even happen. Keep the faith, ladies and gentlemen! The writers can't ignore how hot this couple is.

katelovespirate
and if they do, we'll spear them and kidnap Johnny and Keira to do the right ending for us. LOL.

ivebeendepped43
uuuummmmmmm no! there will b no kidnapping unless u force Johnny to at least french kiss me.......

Bwa Ha Ha
lol

ivebeendepped43
hehe

Bwa Ha Ha
That's like what your mind revolves around isn't it? How do you get through a normal day thinking like that?

ivebeendepped43
u kidding? thats what gets me THROUGH the day! skool sux and i just go home and do homework from 3:30 to at least 7:00 then i go on the internet, and the whole time, i just think bout kissing johnny. seriouslyhomestar

CaptinJackLover
Originally posted by Chiki Mina
LMAO^^ SO TRUE. why bother having a bed if we could do it anywhere lol. ok this is getting very porn-ish lol.

LOL yeah we tend to do that a lot if the topic is about him...we just cant help it i guess big grin

ivebeendepped43
aahh nothing better that Johnny focused pporn!

CaptinJackLover
hahaha yeeppp definatley!

ivebeendepped43
*tinks about having IT with Johnny* *sighs*

Chiki Mina
*doesnt want to imagine ivebeendepped imaging doing it with johnny*
*imagines ugly images away from head*
lol

ivebeendepped43
lol *continues thinking about IT*

Chiki Mina
*continues imagining dirty images away...imagines how ivebeendepped could do that move* lol

katelovespirate
woah guys... where did this thread go?

can we move back towards topic and cleanliness? wink

Chiki Mina
.....ivebeendepped started it lol

yea ur right sorry but hey were pirate-fans..arent pirate fans supose to be dirty stick out tongue

willofthewisp
We finished The Odyssey, and I have to admit, I enjoyed rereading it and enjoyed how a lot of people said it was similar to POTC. So I thought I would share my ideas.

The character Calypso is really interesting. Odysseus had a whole ship of men with him and the monster Scylla (a six-headed female monster) and Charybdis (a whirlpool) killed everyone but him and he washes up on Calypso's island where she keeps him prisoner until the gods demand she release him. She's been trying to make him love her for seven years, but he loves Penelope too much and sits on the beach crying.
This could be a parallel to Jack/Tia/Liz. She may go for Jack again, but he wants his mortal woman.

Odysseus uses his wits most of the time and only resorts to using his physical strength and fighting skills when he needs to, much like Jack. Also, he is warned about the sirens but decides he wants to hear them anyway, so he stuffs up the ears of his men and is tied to the mast so he can hear them. He says their song fills him with strange feelings and leaves him just wanting more, that he would kill his men just to stay and listen to it.
Hmm, Jack is tied to a mast, the price for enjoying the hottest kiss in the world.

willofthewisp
Oh, another fun thing. We learned most epics don't start right at the very beginning of the story, but in the middle. Well, we never see Barbosa mutiny and maroon Jack or Jack escape the island. Those things have already happened. We start when Liz finds the medallion and its contacting the pirates when it hits the water.
There are several parallels, and I wonder if it's because The Odyssey is just a great story and now people unconsciously draw from it, or if the writers wanted to create some kind of Odyssey-inspired story.

Chiki Mina
i remember reading and watching the odyssey when i was in 9th grade- a freshman in highschool when i was living in the US. and now remembering the movie calypso and odysseus were lovers right..?? but that empty feeling could not be filled with sex especially for odysseus since he was still in love with penelope. calypso loved odysseus for seven years couldnt make him love her back

with tia i doubt sha has feelings for jack-maybe lusty/friendship kind, but not love. and jack sees her as a friend also nothing more nothing less. I believe calypso/tia (if she really is calypso its not confimed 100%) will offer jack immortality to be with her forever.

i might be way off but there could be a possibility that liz could die or sacrifice her life saving jack. since jack sacrificed his life at the end of dmc then i guess this time it will be liz sacrificing by the end of awe. so maybe calypso/tia will offer jack immortality or life again for elizabeth.

willofthewisp
It's just that the more we read, the more I saw similar things in POTC (and in Star Wars and other great movies. Homer's a genius), but the whole class seemed to be swept up in how similar parts were to POTC. Calypso especially. Yes, she holds him prisoner and he does willingly have sex with her, but it's empty and he's just lost all his friends. She's taking advantage of him. My teacher calls it "emotionally raping" him. He can't stop thinking about Penelope and Calypso even yells at him how he could prefer a human woman to her.

ivebeendepped43
ur teacher talks bout that? wow

willofthewisp
Yeah, it's a college course and we're reading a book that has a lot of sex in it. She's a horror movie buff like me, so she really likes all the action, but she enjoys the quiet, domestic parts too. She asks such good questions that spark discussion. The emotional rape question came out of asking why a woman has to be a goddess to even contend with Odysseus when he will always have the upper hand since he never gives another woman his heart? Deep stuff.

ivebeendepped43
wow. amazing. its real great 2 no that ur reading a book /w a lot of ssex in it!

willofthewisp
We handle it maturely. I love The Odyssey. You ought to see the 1997 movie. Good stuff. May remind you of POTC.

I think someone should write POTC books after the trilogy is over, continuing the story that way. Wouldn't that be cool?

ivebeendepped43
fully awesome! u need 2 change ur siggy sometime, willo

Chiki Mina
i love the odyssey too i have seen the movie its pretty good. sad a little but thats what makes it a drama. and yes it is similar to potc. YES finally something i can compare potc with that is not star wars! yay

willofthewisp
fully awesome! u need 2 change ur siggy sometime, willo



I tried, and it didn't work. Can you help me out with it? I love using artwork and sigs and I had a bunch of ideas for mine. Sucks.

ivebeendepped43
have u tried doing the custom sig thing? it needs 2 b small, and u need 2 copy and paste the img thing it gives you

Chiki Mina
yess we wil help u willo bc i do also have some problems w my siggy sad

ivebeendepped43
me too. u just have 2 find 1 the right size

Chiki Mina
yea! im gonna change my siggy in a bit but i personally love mine lol

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