Jesus Camp
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BackFire
I just saw the trailer for this movie and it looks very interesting. A documentary about a hardcore christian camp for young children and what the children are taught/brainwashed (depending on your viewpoint). Looks good.
tabby999
I'd watch that, sounds promising
Impediment
Sounds no different than Terrorist Training Camp, to me. A bunch of brainwashed individuals who will go to extremes for their beliefs.
sithsaber408
Originally posted by Impediment
Sounds no different than Terrorist Training Camp, to me. A bunch of brainwashed individuals who will go to extremes for their beliefs.
Except that one group kills for their faith, the other is about saving lives.
You should talk to Rosie O' Donnell.
Impediment
Originally posted by sithsaber408
Except that one group kills for their faith, the other is about saving lives.
I fail to see the comparison. Christians have had their share of dark acts, and I'm not talking about the same, tired examples like The Crusades and The Inquisitions.
sithsaber408
Originally posted by Impediment
I fail to see the comparison. Christians have had their share of dark acts, and I'm not talking about the same, tired examples like The Crusades and The Inquisitions.
You fail to see the comparison?
YOU are the one making it.
You are saying that young children being sent to a Christian camp to pray, worship in song, and "encounter" God/Jesus/Holy Spirit, and to learn how to have a voice in politics, science, and community to represent their faith.....
is somehow akin to terrorist training camps where people are taught hand-to-hand combat, target practice, bomb-making techniques, and believe in killing innocent men, women, and children is somehow a part of their religion.
Point of fact, I fail to see the comparison. nonedown
Mr Parker
Hmm sounds interesting,have to check it out,when does it come out?
sithsaber408
Depends on where you live, I guess:
http://www.jesuscampthemovie.com/theatreList.html
It's on a limited theatrical release.
BackFire
The comparison is quite sound, in that they are being brainwashed into thinking and believing certain things, when their are far too young to fend off such an onslaught. Just because one brainwashing includes violence and the other doesn't does not mean that they aren't comparable in some ways.
Impediment
Originally posted by sithsaber408
Except that one group kills for their faith, the other is about saving lives.
I do not have problems with a person who has a belief, but I do have major problems with beliefs, in general. I was raised a Southern Baptist, which is borderline Pentocostal if you're unfamiliar. Its like one big cult that makes you feel bad for every little thing that you do. I had my beliefs shoved down my throat since birth, and I was at church every time the doors were open. Disillusionment came easy for me, because what these people are doing to the children in this movie, happened to me. I was brainwashed by a bunch of radical zealots who tell you what to believe, and will chastize and punish you if you dare to have a mind of your own and ask questions. BTW, you say that one group saves lives while the other kills for it's beliefs? Tell that to all of those christians who murder abortion doctors and plant bombs at concerts of bands like Deicide, Morbid Angel, and Marilyn Manson. Not all Muslims are fanatics, but not all Christians are lovey-dovey, either. Anyone who says otherwise is conflicted and/or ignorant to the obvious.
meep-meep
Originally posted by Impediment
I do not have problems with a person who has a belief, but I do have major problems with beliefs, in general. I was raised a Southern Baptist, which is borderline Pentocostal if you're unfamiliar. Its like one big cult that makes you feel bad for every little thing that you do. I had my beliefs shoved down my throat since birth, and I was at church every time the doors were open. Disillusionment came easy for me, because what these people are doing to the children in this movie, happened to me. I was brainwashed by a bunch of radical zealots who tell you what to believe, and will chastize and punish you if you dare to have a mind of your own and ask questions. BTW, you say that one group saves lives while the other kills for it's beliefs? Tell that to all of those christians who murder abortion doctors and plant bombs at concerts of bands like Deicide, Morbid Angel, and Marilyn Manson. Not all Muslims are fanatics, but not all Christians are lovey-dovey, either. Anyone who says otherwise is conflicted and/or ignorant to the obvious.
BOO-YAKA-SHAA!
sithsaber408
Originally posted by BackFire
Just because one brainwashing includes violence and the other doesn't does not mean that they aren't comparable in some ways.
Fair enough.
I just don't see a complete and literal comparison between a "Jesus Camp" and a terrorist-training camp as the same. But you're right, there are certainly degrees of comparison.
Originally posted by Impediment
I do not have problems with a person who has a belief, but I do have major problems with beliefs, in general. I was raised a Southern Baptist, which is borderline Pentocostal if you're unfamiliar. Its like one big cult that makes you feel bad for every little thing that you do. I had my beliefs shoved down my throat since birth, and I was at church every time the doors were open. Disillusionment came easy for me, because what these people are doing to the children in this movie, happened to me. I was brainwashed by a bunch of radical zealots who tell you what to believe, and will chastize and punish you if you dare to have a mind of your own and ask questions. BTW, you say that one group saves lives while the other kills for it's beliefs? Tell that to all of those christians who murder abortion doctors and plant bombs at concerts of bands like Deicide, Morbid Angel, and Marilyn Manson. Not all Muslims are fanatics, but not all Christians are lovey-dovey, either. Anyone who says otherwise is conflicted and/or ignorant to the obvious.
Impediment, I respect your opinions and beliefs.
I do know what southern baptist and pentecostal churches are like, and I think it sucks balls that they treated you that way.
Had they been following the "word" they were preaching, they might have pulled their heads out of their asses long enough to see that acceptance and love, not hate and condemnation of people, is what Jesus was all about.
However, your comparison is still bunk.
The filmmakers (two liberal women, by the way) estimate that there are some 100 million evangelical Christians in America, with 30 million claiming to be Pentecostal. (those in the film are pentecostal, I believe)
Now how many people have actually bombed abortion clinics, killed abortionists or gay marriage officials, or bombed Marilyn Manson concerts?
5 or 6?
100?
Lets say 1,000. One thousand actual cases of either bombing, attempted bombing, murder, or attempted murder committed against the groups you mentioned by christians.
In the last 5 years, if you could prove that there were 1,000 such cases in America, you'd still only be talking about 1/100,000th of the Christians in America.
I doubt your numbers would be so kind for radical Islamics.
If you take both extremes, both groups of radicals, most radical christians want abortion totally and completely outlawed, along with gay marriage, and the end of separation of church and state, evolution not taught in schools, and Christianity as the recognized religion in the U.S.
Radical Muslims want to kill every man, woman, and child that will not convert to Islam. By bomb, by bullet, or by knife to the throat if necessary. They have said so, publicly.
When you look at both groups, and the worst possible outcome, and you look at what percentage of radical christians actually kill people.....
it is foolishness to compare a camp like the one in this film to a terrorist training camp.
Maybe you ought to check the official site out, which has many reviews, mostly by liberal groups, that describe the joy and happiness on the children's faces as they feel God in their hearts.
http://www.jesuscampthemovie.com
Oh, and while ideas can be force-fed and doctrines taught, you can't "brainwash" anybody, man or woman, boy or girl, into an encounter with God, having the Holy Spirit come upon them while they sing worship songs, and cause them to speak in tongues.
Tptmanno1
Don't even get into the whole "speaking in tounges" thing, its bullshit and been proven.
And I'll bet the numbers ARE so kind for muslims.
Every religion has its militant extremists. Christianity has a very long history of killing in the name of god. Probably worse than any other.
That is unless you belive the Old Testament then its probably Judiasm.
Impediment
Originally posted by sithsaber408
If you take both extremes, both groups of radicals, most radical christians want abortion totally and completely outlawed, along with gay marriage, and the end of separation of church and state, evolution not taught in schools, and Christianity as the recognized religion in the U.S.
Radical Muslims want to kill every man, woman, and child that will not convert to Islam. By bomb, by bullet, or by knife to the throat if necessary. They have said so, publicly.
When you look at both groups, and the worst possible outcome, and you look at what percentage of radical christians actually kill people..... You just said it yourself: "Most radical Christians want abortion totally and completely outlawed, along with gay marriage, and the end of separation of church and state, evolution not taught in schools, and Christianity as the recognized religion in the U.S." What's the major difference with what Muslims want to do? If that isn't some sort of Nazi-ish wet Christian dream for America, then I'd like to know what is. Personally, I'd rather have my throat slit open and my tongue pulled out through the wound than have my freedoms and human rights taken away by religious zealots. And if those kind of Christians did have their way with America, I'd probably be mobbed and hanged because I believe in abortion, separation of church and state, evolution taught in schools, and even though I am not homosexual I support gay marriages.
Originally posted by sithsaber408
Now how many people have actually bombed abortion clinics, killed abortionists or gay marriage officials, or bombed Marilyn Manson concerts?
5 or 6?
100?
Lets say 1,000. One thousand actual cases of either bombing, attempted bombing, murder, or attempted murder committed against the groups you mentioned by christians.
In the last 5 years, if you could prove that there were 1,000 such cases in America, you'd still only be talking about 1/100,000th of the Christians in America.
I doubt your numbers would be so kind for radical Islamics. It doesnt matter if it was just ONE who did the act. The fact would be that just one radical Christian acted out of radical belief and hurt/murdered an innocent human being. The same for Muslim fanatics, too. If a Christian kills even one person, beit for his extreme dedication to his faith, he is a walking contradiction and a big, fat hippocrite. Christianity is thriving with hippocrites, as is the Bible is with hypocrisy.
Originally posted by sithsaber408
it is foolishness to compare a camp like the one in this film to a terrorist training camp.
Oh, and while ideas can be force-fed and doctrines taught, you can't "brainwash" anybody, man or woman, boy or girl, into an encounter with God, having the Holy Spirit come upon them while they sing worship songs, and cause them to speak in tongues.
I believe that anyone can be brainwashed into anything. I have seen mothers and fathers "force" their children to cry out to Jesus and make them speak in tongues at sunday worship services, otherwise they'd be "the unbelievers". I have seen it with my own two eyes. My original point I was trying to make is: Jesus Camp wont make terrorists out of these little Christian boys & girls, however it is very comparable to the way future terrorists are brought up because they are being taught these things as a very way of life that is the right way of life and any other way of life is wrong and will shame/damn you and your entire family.
sithsaber408
Originally posted by Tptmanno1
Don't even get into the whole "speaking in tongues" thing, its bullshit and been proven.
Except for people like me (and millions others) who have the gift and use it to God's glory.
For somebody who doesn't do it, to tell somebody who does, that it's "bullshit", no.... "proven bullshit" and doesn't list any credible sources is a pretty ball-sy thing.
I know in my heart that I'm filled with the Holy Spirit when I do it, and have nothing to prove to you, but find you funny that you are so adamantly opposed to something that you probably have little to no personal experience with.
Rest assured, I'm not "bullshitting" anybody when I speak in tongues, especially since its only me and my God around when I do it.
Originally posted by Impediment
Personally, I'd rather have my throat slit open and my tongue pulled out through the wound than have my freedoms and human rights taken away by religious zealots.
Well, I can understand that opinion, and you're welcome to it.
Originally posted by Impediment
If a Christian kills even one person, beit for his extreme dedication to his faith, he is a walking contradiction and a big, fat hippocrite. I agree with you wholeheartedly.
That's very true.
Does it pale in comparison to the many more Islamics who plot the death of thousands of people at a time?
For me, yes.Originally posted by Impediment
My original point I was trying to make is: Jesus Camp wont make terrorists out of these little Christian boys & girls, however it is very comparable to the way future terrorists are brought up because they are being taught these things as a very way of life that is the right way of life and any other way of life is wrong and will shame/damn you and your entire family.
Well that's a fair opinion, and a fair point.
A good analysis and a good comparison.
Unless Christians have got it right.
BlackSunshine
Originally posted by sithsaber408
I do know what southern baptist and pentecostal churches are like, and I think it sucks balls that they treated you that way.
Had they been following the "word" they were preaching, they might have pulled their heads out of their asses long enough to see that acceptance and love, not hate and condemnation of people, is what Jesus was all about.
Impediment and I respect each other beleifs whole heartedly. He being an atheist and I being Christian, raised in Pentecostal beleifs. However I, unlike some christians these days, am open minded to others beleifs and what they think. I seriously beleive that Pentecostals have serious problems. The church I went to with my parents said; Girls could not wear pants or shorts, we couldnt cut or color our hair, we couldnt wear jewlery or have any peircings, we couldnt smoke or drink. Guys couldnt grow their hair out, they couldnt have facial hair and couldnt wear shorts...AND if we did we would go to hell. Now I would definitley call that a cult. Wouldnt you? I hate going to church because there's always some person there staring at you like your the devil himself and chastizing you. Any religion is gonna have someone like that. I dont consider myself to be "religious" I do however beleive in God and I always will.
This movie, on the other hand, looks like the church camp I went to when I was younger. It looks like a cult to me, honestly. I really don't have any intrest whatsoever in seeing it.
SnakeEyes
This film intrigues me. I'm gonna wanna see this.
BackFire
Saw it today, and it was very good. Extremely interesting and fascinated, but also very chilling and sad, the brainwashing that occurs during the film is tragic. Though the film is extremely fair and never seems to demonize the camp, the people running it do that themselves.
Impediment
Originally posted by BackFire
Saw it today, and it was very good. Extremely interesting and fascinated, but also very chilling and sad, the brainwashing that occurs during the film is tragic. Though the film is extremely fair and never seems to demonize the camp, the people running it do that themselves.
You mean that the filmmakers weren't promoting the Jesus Camp? They were actually trying to expose it for what it is?
BackFire
They were just showing it, they weren't promoting it or trying to give it a negative showing. But for me what was shown was sad and unsettling.
Koala MeatPie
Originally posted by Tptmanno1
Don't even get into the whole "speaking in tounges" thing, its bullshit and been proven.
And I'll bet the numbers ARE so kind for muslims.
Every religion has its militant extremists. Christianity has a very long history of killing in the name of god. Probably worse than any other.
That is unless you belive the Old Testament then its probably Judiasm.
Can you give me a link? please? Not to prove you wrong, but to shuove it down the throats of others.
"In Isreal they have camps and place hand Grandes in there hands"
"We are being trained to be gods army"
Of annoying little brats.
This says it all:
http://blog.isecore.net/media/BibleWarningLabel_small.jpg
Ya Krunk'd Floo
Woah! I just watched the trailer, and I must say it looks like one of the scariest horror/fantasy movies to come by in a long time. I like the way it's filmed like a documentary; it makes the horror all the more disturbing because it bases it in 'reality'. I'll probably wait for it to come on DVD though, so I can watch it with the lights on.
BackFire
It really is very scary and disturbing. Seeing children exploited like that is pretty terrible.
brookefeo
I am glad the film provoked some controversial talk! As a documentary filmmaker, I saw it as the filmmakers befriended them, got inside, filmed it and are exposing it in a fairly balanced light.
Of course, if they are making documentaries and giving children speaking in tongues a thriller score, I seriously doubt they are devout Christians.
I hate to be broad, but most Christians don't express themselves in educational forums like documentaries. Feel free to nail me on this comment, I believe it to be true.
Ya Krunk'd Floo
Originally posted by BackFire
It really is very scary and disturbing. Seeing children exploited like that is pretty terrible.
I watched Jesus Camp last night...Oh. My. God.
It was horrifying. The way those children were having their raw emotions manipulated was disgusting. They were having their childhood stripped away from them before my very eyes.
BackFire
Yep, exactly how I felt too.
EPIIIBITES
I don't think I could ever watch this movie...it'd make me too angry and too sad.
These camp leaders are the ones who are brainwashed...and teaching a completely ass-backwards, false faith. Jesus doesn't need "soldiers" you silly woman, He needs "lovers"...(and that's incidentally what He makes).
Really heart-wrenching stuff. So glad I didn't grow up in the church (or in that church anyway)!!!
Ya Krunk'd Floo
That little kid with the rat's tail is going to grow-up and kill a lot of people.
Also, the little girl with the pudding-basin hair is going to need a lot of counseling.
So sad.
Rade
Atheism shall inherit the Earth and delusionists who believe in Zeus shall perish forever.
wuTa
Originally posted by sithsaber408
You should talk to Rosie O' Donnell.
Why would anyone subject themselves to such torcher? That would be worse than the film.
Originally posted by Rade
Atheism shall inherit the Earth and delusionists who believe in Zeus shall perish forever.
And than war with the Otters comes next so goes the prophecy.
Captain Maynard
I'm about to finish the film as I type this. Wow. Thats all I can say. Me, as a non religious fellow, find this to be amazing. The problem is, is the fact that that i'm sure most of the non religious people will go and see this movie, just to say that they have proof that these people are fcuking nuts. But the sad thing is, the people that are actually doing all of this crazy stuff, wont see the movie.
What makes me most sick, is the fact that there is this adorable little girl that goes to these 3 old black fellows, sitting in the park. She says "Where do you think you're going to go when you die?"
The Black man replies "Heaven"
She replies "Really?"
Blacky, again "Yeah."
She finishes "Oh...okay.."
She walks off screen and says "I think they were muslim"
I mean, thats what these kids are doing. Thats their purpose, to be poster girls/boys for God. To spread the "word" of god. These week-minded children are getting brainwashed by the bible. They're getting the old Jedi Mind trick, saying that "The Bible is the only thing thats real.", "I dont have to have beliefes, because all of my beliefs are in the bible, So I dont have to speak my own mind, its all there in the bible.". Now thats ridiculous.
If you see this movie, and you're not religious, you're going to want to punch the following people in the face:
1. The Mullet Kid
2. The Little Girl that goes up to random people
3. The Fat Camp Counselor, With a dyke haircut.
4. The Senior Pastor (Towards the end)
5. The Guy that says "I usually Talk to big people".
6. The Radio show Host.
I nearly had to punch my room mate in the face just to get the urge of punching someone in the face out.
Otherwise, this movie is hilarious. These kids are crying as they "repent" do to their "hypocracy" of them being ritcheous in church, but being just like the "Non Christians" when they go to school. So all the kids start to cry as they repent, and speak in tongues. Wow. But they do have some hilarious music that they listen too. A god rap, and such. And to end it all, it ends with a nice "Spirit in the Sky" by Norman Greenbaum
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