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are they friggin KIDDING me? Jack/Liz was on the cards since movie 1..everyone thought..hang on why is she not with Jack?? Even Keira said this..

see yes I would believe that about the full on kiss..but its what happens AFTER that full on kiss that is the real tell point...she LOVED IT..and she tried oh so hard not to do it again..if what they say about the kiss is true then why oh why add in that little "oh I want you so badly" moment afterward??


LOL they MUST have realized this movie only got to 1 billion BECAUSE of this new aspect?? which is Jack/Liz..so burning out?? I don't think so..

Man I'm soo pissed off right now..

how can it be that she didn't want to kiss him after the sheer disappointment on her face after the curiosity scene?? when he didn't kiss her..why was the whole of movie 2 about Jack WANTING this woman..and Liz actually realizing she is ATTRACTED TO JACK?? If its to end up Will/Liz

seriously..if movie 3 is all about Liz turning into a little lap dog following Will around tying to win him back then I'm going to LEAVE the cinema probably vomiting through my nose at the sheer lovesick disgustingness.. and I demand my money back for a wasted 2 sequels where they added in something that means NOTHING..because it all ends up exactly the same as movie 1..where Will/Liz want to be together..and Jack wants his material druggie lifestyle

why did I go to watch movie 2 and in the future movie 3 if its just a learning thing for Liz and Will to be together..when they were {through gritted teeth} together IN THE FIRST PLACE???..POINTLESS WASTE OF MY TIME!

yes, me too. I don't waste my money!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Why the hell bloody Will????????? There's no sense in that!!!!

Exactly in movie two were not all shocked about the kiss we love the idea of jack and liz This is a qoute someone else said , Elizabeth should follow her heart , Its 'pirates of the caribbean' not 'blacksmiths of port royal'

no, we weren't shocked...because there was a thing between them since the first movie and we all knew that jack is the better man for liz!!! what can she do with a stupid idiot???

WILL IS A GOOD MAN FOR HER, AND JACK SHOULD BE FREE.THIS IS NOT A VASTED MONEY-ON FIRST 2 FILMS....THESE MOVIES WERE GREAT, WE ALL LOVE JACK-FREE AND CRAZY.I MEAN HE'S A LEGEND ALREADY. MAYBE THEY'LL FIND HIM A PIRATE GIRL IN 3 WHO KNOWS....BUT EVEN ALONE -HE IS AWESOME !!!

no it would be a WASTE of my time because it would mean I watched a 2 and a half hours of meaningless, empty CRAP!..I dont pay to watch meaningless crap that LEADS TO NOTHING in the end!! its a WASTE of my time and money...

why does jack sudenly change and then change back?

why does Liz suddenly change and then change back?

why does will suddenly change and then change back?


I DONT PAY TO WATCH 2:30 of complete BULL SHIT ON SCREEN

actually I paid and watched it twice so thats £19 and 5 hours of my life WASTED ON BULL SHIT..I WANT MY MONEY BACK...NOW..

I can't have the time back but I want my ****ing money back NOW


pardon my language but i'm PISSED OFF

LovelyOne, calm down! You'll have a stroke! All this is filming crap. They might be saying just how the idea came about, you know? That could be what triggered them to even put it in in the first place. They saw the chemistry between Johnny and Keira, learned how audiences thought it was great, and maybe that changed how they were going to do things. Don't deny yourself the last installment of the trilogy because it may not end the way you want. They've done 2 spectacular films so far. 3 can't be awful.
If you really are afraid you won't get the ending we all want, feel free to read OUR version of POTC3 and 4. You will love them.

Originally posted by LovelyOne
no it would be a WASTE of my time because it would mean I watched a 2 and a half hours of meaningless CRAP!

I ask myself then, why did they put in so many things like the sinking dress, the fate thing...all just to irritate us, or what? i mean why didn't they left it out and just showed some *attraction* of them?????? I don't understand it????? was it just for some people to talk about???? i'm so angry right now, i could shoot them!!!!!!!!!!!!!

@willo: but it's not the same to read it or to see it!!!

It's the next best thing! At least we have a third movie so we can see Jack live. I'm just not going to get too worked up until I at least see the trailer. We might figure out what direction the movie is going to go if we see the trailer.

im going to see the movie. i love these films. though i might be disappointed with some of it, i see these films cause they make me laugh and help me escape. lol. no matter what, Jack is going to be flipping hott in the last one.

ted and terry aren't total idiots.

they are just as horny about jack/liz as the rest of us. they WROTE the scene in 1 where Jack rips off lizzie's corset, they WROTE the scene where they both spend the night on the beach (and comment that its up to the audience how far Elizabeth went with Jack) and on and on.

they know the chemistry there is serious. what they said was they didnt see how these characters could come togehter--- which makes sense. Lizzie's all engaged at the end of 1, and Jack would be a difficult character to make fall in love convincingly (though johnny has proven otherwise).

the reason i loved 2 so much was because it SHOCKED me. the kiss did, i mean. literally shocked me out of my seat. why? Cause i never thought i would even get to see Jack and Liz doing THAT much...

im sure they will put in some gratuitous scenes for us jack/liz shippers (since we make up the majority) and will make it all work out, whatever happens.

THE MOVIE WITH JACK SPARROW IN IT CAN NOT BE CRAP!!!

Awe LovelyOne, don't be mad.

You loved the second film!!!! Think about how happy it made you.

We dont know how its going to end yet... maintain hope!

but it's difficult to maintain hope at the moment!! because at the moment everything goes wrong

I know..I did love it..but its only because I thought it was actually leading somewhere between Jack/Liz..and if movie 2 was just a lie then I dont love it anymore...I wont ever watch it again if I find out it was a lie..just filler time..it would just be pointless to watch..

and if movie 3 goes the same way..then it means that movie means nothing too..because why watch aload of filler crap just to end up how they were in the first place?..as in Will lis knowing they are meant to be together..and Jack loving his materialistic..crack head style life?

Then stop reading interviews and commentaries. We can't know anything more right now and all those do is confuse us. They want to confuse us. They don't want anyone to figure it out! They are meant to be vague and hard to decipher. Reading them will not make you more knowledgable. We loved POTC1 and Jack and Liz didn't wind up together there. We loved POTC2 and there was no Jack/Liz having sex on the beach. There will still be Jack/Liz chemistry, I'll bet you anything, and we have our imaginations if the worst case scenario is true and she runs back to bloody stupid Will.

Originally posted by willofthewisp
Then stop reading interviews and commentaries. We can't know anything more right now and all those do is confuse us. They want to confuse us. They don't want anyone to figure it out! They are meant to be vague and hard to decipher. Reading them will not make you more knowledgable. We loved POTC1 and Jack and Liz didn't wind up together there. We loved POTC2 and there was no Jack/Liz having sex on the beach. There will still be Jack/Liz chemistry, I'll bet you anything, and we have our imaginations if the worst case scenario is true and she runs back to bloody stupid Will.


im with you 100 %.

and perhaps that will inspire us all to become millionaires so we can make a 4th one with the right ending. lol.

yes, that would be nice! or we take our version. it's brilliant!!

think about it though..why would they keep hinting towards Will/Liz..unless they were actually softening the blow for all the Jack/Liz lovers out there?.

its just like how we know the ending of titanic is gonna be sad..but because we know this it softens the blow a little bit..we know what to expect..

movie 1 didnt actually tease us with HOT HOT chemitsy an then rip it away..they took out the chemistry because they knew it would piss us off when they ended it Will/Liz

they "had a moment" in movie 1 but it wasnt enough for it to be a set Jack/Liz deal by the end..and they can do the same thing with movie 2 ..they can say that it "wasnt enough to really set the Jack/Liz deal"

I think it was..but if they wanted to they could use that old chestnut..

yes, it was...it's their decision, but if they do will/liz then they will not make it to the billion mark again...oh, i stop thinking about it but it's hard to imagine that we could get our end in spite of that!

the thing is, they DID go there this time. With two, they spent a good 45 minutes of precious screentime hyping things up between Jack and Elizabeth. They gave them the best, wittiest conversations and the most dramatic moments.

they knew what they were doing when they wrote that kiss. they knew they were opening a can of worms it would be incredibly hard to contain. they wouldnt have done it if they didnt have an incredibly brilliant plan for it. ya know?
The wouldnt have just put it in for fun. they had a plan for it. they knew they were going to have to change things, resolve things, make people mad.

i'm just betting they have a great plan. they wont just shut us all down. they will make it work.

to be honest, in the first one, it WOULDNT have worked for Liz and Jack to be together. it didnt make sense at that point. Especially for Elizabeth's character.

However, all of Elizabeth's character development in 2 was straight towards a Jack thing.

i dont know. i dont want to know at this point. i really will be happy either way. Jack will still be the hottest pirate in the caribbean, and whose to say we wont get more hott liz and jack moments anyways? cause i sure bet we will.

plus, theres still a 50/50 chance we could get the ending we want!!!!!!!

actual, you're absolutely right!!!! you calmed me with your post, thank you kate!!! youpi Ladies, our hope is restored!!!

Im still gonna keep my positive side!! im gonna watch the 3rd no doubt but if they do somenin stypid at the end with no sequels after that and on top of it all NO JACK LIZ...i will do some black magic crap to brin walt disney back from the grave to complain!!!!

ted and terry thought prob that to the ppl the jack liz thing was gonna be "eh just a fling" but shit that was no fling!!! that is love to me!!

When i saw them kiss surprisingly i wasnt shoked about it, it just seemed natural to me for them to be together-hell i ven forgot about poor will lol

Im going to keep my faith on the writers and disney!! theres a big chance we're gonna get what we always wanted!! and shove it at the shit eaters from KTTC!!

meh..I'm not bothered about it anymore..I'm not rushing to see 3. I'm gonna wait and see what the ending is before anything..

I'm just pissed tha i spend so much time looking for all the hints and symbolisims...made theories (that I thought were pretty credible based on what I saw)..Just for them to all be ripped to utter shit...waste of my time man..It doesnt do wonders for my self esteem because I was planning on continuing film studies in university and if im wrong about all these things I thought I saw in movie 2 then I dont actually know If im gonna take up that subject anymore..and I really wanted to because I thought I was doing well with understanding this movie..it was gonna be my basis for my first project in UNI..but if I'm wrong then its obviously the wrong subject for me.. *is actually really upset here*

fuking Disney..I hate you

ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh





blowupblowupblowup


how can they even say that Liz wouldnt have have kissed Jack unless it was a life or death moment when during the curiosity scene she probably would have let him kiss her? she was pushing her mouth forward, eyes closed, tounge ready..and for what?? to pull away?? ****ing BULL SHIT

Originally posted by katelovespirate
the thing is, they DID go there this time. With two, they spent a good 45 minutes of precious screentime hyping things up between Jack and Elizabeth. They gave them the best, wittiest conversations and the most dramatic moments.

they knew what they were doing when they wrote that kiss. they knew they were opening a can of worms it would be incredibly hard to contain. they wouldnt have done it if they didnt have an incredibly brilliant plan for it. ya know?
The wouldnt have just put it in for fun. they had a plan for it. they knew they were going to have to change things, resolve things, make people mad.

i'm just betting they have a great plan. they wont just shut us all down. they will make it work.

to be honest, in the first one, it WOULDNT have worked for Liz and Jack to be together. it didnt make sense at that point. Especially for Elizabeth's character.

However, all of Elizabeth's character development in 2 was straight towards a Jack thing.

i dont know. i dont want to know at this point. i really will be happy either way. Jack will still be the hottest pirate in the caribbean, and whose to say we wont get more hott liz and jack moments anyways? cause i sure bet we will.

plus, theres still a 50/50 chance we could get the ending we want!!!!!!!


^^^I AGREE WITH YOU TOTALLY!

Ive said it all along...if they didnt want to make us think things then they wouldnt put the scenes in there, they would edit them out like they did on POTC1.

we knew there was chemistry in 1 ... they expanded it in 2 ...they will expand it in 3 (because now the girl has got to make it up to jack AND will) which means that whichever way we look at it, we will get their on screen time like we did in 2.

everyone enjoyed them on screen because we laughed with them...they held witty conversations, they flirted...and every girl ALWAYS has a crush on the bad boy even when she is in a happy relationship (myself included).

i'm not giving up guys, and i think it was me who was always doubting it in the first place? lol

If being on this board has taught me anything; its never seeing the negative and you guys have taught me that!
LovelyOne, if it weren't for you, Kate, lovethemtigers and CJL I would be a quivering wreck reading all the writers information! You guys speak it like it is and you ALWAYS have a comeback for everything that is thrown at us!

We've been through the mill guys; and we've yet to get caught out!

This boat is not sinking!!!!

come on miss lovelyone ur theories and ours are not wasted at all not even one bit.
If I were u i wouldnt pay attention to intereview.
look these ppl are fukin smart if they know what they are doing then they know that what definitely hit us-well what hit the box office was liz/jack chemistry.
Im sure that they are not gonna risk it

Someone said this and i appoligize cus i cant remember (sorry ) that why would they bother to introduce wills father..?? why bother introduce jacks and wills daddies if this isnt a story about romance and acceptance and of course support

Bootstrap will help Will and will definitely play an important role also Jacks daddie (mr. richards)

We need to stay calm and we need to analyze on these news and interviews. We have to make sure that its true and if they meant something else. we cannot jump into conclusions. WE must stay positive.

Im still gonna look forward for potc 3 knowing that our theories were worth a shot and that we at least got what we always wanted

and no lovelyone its really not worth leaving what u love doing which is film studies!!!!! must stay positive!!! if ur not positive i will make u laugh so ur nose could hurt!!!!

I suppose..

right now I'm crapping myself becuase I have all of this Jack/Liz stuff written out and planned (for a display in uni)..and the new year for uni is about to start..and I could be completley embarassed and ridiculed because I'm completley wrong...*am actually shaking here*

and now my nose is hurting because I cried..and its bleeding again (operation)

sorry you didnt need to know that but I'm feeling rough and am in quite a state here..the term starts in 3 weeks

im sorry i started the uni too and its a bit stressing i know lol
so i know what ur going through
u just need to breath and calm. Just relax. take it easy
im sure we're gonna have what we were hoping for!! i promise that!!

i have to go though i have to finish this homework that i cant never seem to finnish!! argh!! take care ill be back later on tonight i hope!!

xoxo toodles

It makes all sense very much...you just have to say, that this is the obvious way but because it's no normal movie, so it could also develope in the other direction, but that would not make very much sense. So then you're not ridiculed. just try to find an excuse if it'll not be so!

I'm sorry guy's I've calmed down now...because someone just actually listened to the audio interview and said this:

--------------------------

I really think, given the fact that the interview is for a screenwriting magazine, and the context of the conversation (in which they were talking about how they first got ideas for what to do with the sequels), that the quote has more to do with the creative process which led to the entire J/E plotline in DMC. I mean, maybe there was a conversation like this:

T1: Hey, it would be cool if Elizabeth kissed Jack

T2: Yeah, but we set her up as being teh uber in love with Will, how are we gonna do it?

T1: Maybe as a way to save her/Will/other peoples' lives?

T2: Okay, but no-one's going to buy it if it just comes out of nowhere, there's got to be build up

T1: Maybe we should have the entire romantic plotline of the film about them coming together

T2: Oh yeah, and don't forget there's got to be a 'teaser' kiss before the one at the end, it's like the law

I gotta stop ripping poples hearts out and then shoving them back in again

I'm sorry I was just really pankied because of my uni thing and all..presentation..I was worried I was going to be talking about a load of tripe..

what are you studying exactly, sounds interesting!

film studies..its just like studying hints and symbolic things in movies

interesting. and what could you do with that? I mean after you finished?

well I was thinking of taking that and also doing digital media which is for computer games..It can help you with making decent stories and screenplays for movies/video games etc.

I have a passion for art both computer art and sketch/pain art. So I would love to create video games etc..with knwledge of how to put a decent movie/story together..

(i'm a girl nerd..but a pretty girl nerd liol)

Originally posted by LovelyOne
well I was thinking of taking that and also doing digital media which is for computer games..It can help you with making decent stories and screenplays for movies/video games etc.

I have a passion for art both computer art and sketch/pain art. So I would love to create video games etc..with knwledge of how to put a decent movie/story together..

(i'm a girl nerd..but a pretty girl nerd liol) wooo!!!!!! me too! i want to be an animator tho! I'm about as nerdy as they come!

well, if you love this...it's fine!! i'm starting to study languages, spanish and french, like that!

but i'll try to come into opera singing, i love that

gosh! i wanna do all those things

Yea, I want to become a celebrity!!!!!!!!

woo! i'll help as long as you rememebr me when you're famous!

of course i'll do! and how do you want to help me?

i dunno....not illegial Download your music....?

fine, but first i have to get a celebrity, that's the problem!!!

yeah...well keep trying hard!

of course i'll do, but are opera singers celebritys?

they can be i guess if you're UBER good at it and you branch out and do all kinds of singing.

very hard!! oh...my life isn't good...no celebrity crybaby

welll who knows i don't know what you're singing is like so you could be good enough already....

i don't think!! and for the pop industry I'm a little bit to thick, I do not look like all those anorexic girls

Oh awsome JackySparrow and sailorleo

why that?

the things you both wanna do are interesting

hey lovelyone!!! dont panic about your presentation. you arent the writer- you arent expected to know exactly whats going to happen. all you can do is analyze the hints in the film and tell it like it is. your theories are correct, and it will be disney making the mistakes if they dont follow the hints they gave. lol.

im glad we are all somewhat happy again!!!
did i tell you guys about the lifesized stand-up of Jack Sparrow in our campus center!? Everytime I go to get coffee, there he is!!!!!!!! LOL and they wonder why i cant study here.

i agree with katelovespirates lovelyone, your theory's are great!!!!

no need to freak out about the presentation...no matter how it turns out, you took all the hints and turned them into awesome theory's about how the movie was going to turn out at the end.

AWE will awesome no matter what. u no why? CUZ JOHNNY'S IN IT!!!!

i wont enjoy it as much if Will and Liz end up together tho....

ditto. I wanna b an actress or singer. i prefer actress tho. but, if i do get big, then i can b in a movie anyway! or vice versa. but i know ill never get discovered tho. i mean, how many Mormon singers do you know that r really big? thats right, none!

i wanna be an actress too, i have ever since i was really little. either that or i wanna do something with music. i dont know what, but i play lots of instruments and stuff, maybe joina band or something. but preferably be an actress.

yeah, its been my dream since i was really little

it's amazing how easily we can get so off topic so fast!!!

its actually kind've sad really though.

i dont advise going to any other forums on this site, cuz if you r not someone that goes there normally, then they always say ur from the OTF (off topic forum) and treat u like ur stupid. thats what happened to me and sccch whe we were on General Discussion forum. we kept on saying "no were POTC!" but they wouldnt listen. this forum is really nice and i like it

yeah, ive read some stuff on other forums, but never posted anything

but i like it here, everyones nice and stuff, so it works for me, plus, there's always something interesting to talk about, so its all good

yeah, were awesome

LovelyOne sounds like you were panicing like I was on Sunday after reading the stuff from Katelovespirates' friend in Germany.....

I'm trying not to be as obsessed with this movie...but it is really crazy to think that they put all these scenes, symbolisms and theories just to put a bump in the road for Liz and Will...and yes, I think it would be a sad testiment to Liz's character if she spends POTC 3 chasing after Will, begging for his forgiveness...screw Will...go after Jack - cuz girlie, that's the man that will give you good loving....LOL

Anyways, after everything I'm reading and hearing....I guess it is going to be a Will/Liz ending.....despite everything they brought forth in DMC...and to say the only way the audience would buy a kiss between Jack and Liz would be in a life/death situation...bullcrap...I wanted them to kiss on the island in POTC 1 - I'd buy a kiss between them anyday... cuz that's what happens when people are attracted to each other...and you could feel the chemistry between these 2 in the first Movie, for crying out loud.....what I don't buy...is kisses between Liz and Will...it's yucky..and grosse..because I feel no chemistry is between them at all....but I guess Ted and Terry don't really care if AWE is as hot as DMC....DMC will forever live on in my book as the best movie ever...and I'll pretend AWE doesn't even exist.....But I am crazy about Johnny Depp...so I'll watch it on DVD so I can see Johnny in action as Jack...because he still is the hottest Pirate of all time throughout the Spanish Main...throughout the World....Keira needs to perform a lobotomy on Ted and Terry...because I would be mad if my character wouldn't get to choose Jack over Will...it really is stupid for her to choose STupid Bloody Boring Ugly Will over Sexy, SMart, Clever, OH_SO HOT- Pirate, Captain Jack....her life would be one adventure after another with Jack and she would have that freedom she longs for....

Yeah I agree cause even though I LOVE for liz and jack to get together and I've tried to find EVERY FACT THERE IS in the movie to prove to myself that this is'nt a typical disney movie and they WILL wind up together but from what I'm hearing the writers are gonna be all liz/will on us but I have hope cause I remember their 5 five rules from the commentery that Ted and Terry did I don't know if they will stick to it but:
1-no book endings
2-no book endings
3-never kill the dog
4-save the kiss to the end
5-FEEL FREE TO DISAGREE WITH ALL OF THESE!!
if they decide not to break these rules that means NO BOOK endings no will and liz

but what do they mean with a marriage has to survive??? and it doesn't exist in THAT storybook, so they do not get married??? I'm confussed!!

OH MY GOD they are hinting that will/liz will stay together that this will only make them strong...augh I don't want them to be together I HOPE HOPE HOPE this is hinting something that I'm to blind to see! I wouldn't mind being wrong at ALL

yeah all evidence points to will/liz and although ted and terry say NO BOOK ENDINGS. I mean COME ON!!!!! it's DISNEY!!!! BOOK ENDINGISNEY ENDING but this movie is different from other disney movies that's why I won't loose faith in jack/liz but something in my heart (even though I have TONS of evidence to show it willl be jack/liz)
tells me it will be liz/will cause to make jack/liz to happen we have to break a heart WILL's wheres if will/liz end up together Jack's heart though will be broken won't be in emotional crisis as will would be he's capt'n jack sparrow savvy???? he could make a joke as he hops onto the paerl riding into the horizon as he leaves will/liz together. but can you imagine liz/jack riding off leaving will all alone to cry over his broken heart? disney wouldn't do that unless will either falls for another girl or comes to piece with the whole liz/jack plot. which are both great tasks to accmplish during the course of ONE movie. but I trust the writers to comeup with a way if they want it to happen. trouble is they seem to feel likethis was to make liz/will stronger though I could protest like i said before I ask you: why was the kiss THERE? it could have been flirtation,seduction and lips getting closer as liz forces jack to the mast and shackles him! why a kiss? ok lets say she had to kiss him to fully distract him! why so passionate? but I guess I can't change the WRITER's opinion now can I lol

yeah I saw it 4 times too

what the heck are they thinking?

if the whole liz/jack thing was just meant to be about making the liz/will relationship more complicated and therefore more exciting when it actually happens, why the heck did they use JACK to do that?!?!?!

they could have used anyone else... and it would have been fine. Throw Liz some other random guy to tempt her.

But when its Jack tempting her... its NO LONGER LOGICAL that she be satisfied with Will. it just DOESNT make sense anymore, because JACK is the one everyone loves.

this is so sad.

I'm just concerned that they are going to have to dumb down Jack's character to make their stupid liz/will ending work... and thats what i dont want to see. seriously, in order to give it a satisfactory ending, Jack has to been happy single again--- and why should he be? He cant be without really making his character seem dumb.

this is worse than Casablanca.

lovethemtigers..if this was just a bump in the road..then I would say the writers used OVERKILL with this movie when trying to prove that point..:lol

but I agree with you as always..

and book ends is actually where a story starts one way..and ends exactly the same

you know the book ends on a book self that hold the stories together..so thats

*Will/Liz*story in the middle*Will/Liz

and they seem to LOATHE using book ends!..so much so its in their rules TWICE!! D

and when you look at the shitty blip in the radar theory and put it over the trilogy:

that means..it starts one way..has a bump in tne road..and then we learn it ends exactly the same!!

its a BOOK END if they do that!

so yeah right A BUMP IN THE ROAD..sure..

seriously, all their rules must have gotten tossed out the window by disney or something. cause there are book-ends all over the place.

and whats up with Gore saying he doesnt want to change Jack's character too much--- doesn't want to give him an arc?! ALL CHARACTERS must have SOME change going on, or else they dont work. and Jack HAS changed... a lot... and if he doesnt see that in the movie he is flipping making, thats a shame.

i still cant believe they just USED the character of Jack to try to spice up Liz and WIll's relationship. thats BS. its illogical.
its ridiculous. Liz making out with Jack will do nothing to making her and Will stronger-- cause I've NEVER seen her kiss Will that way.

there are no book ends in potc??

movie 1..started out where she had no one..then she got Will

movie 2..started out with will..then she pretty much ended it gagging to be with Jack again and Jack ended wanting this woman in his life..(which makes me smile when i think f what Ted said "movie 2 is all the closure you need when it comes to the love triangle"..although at first glance! its not so obvious..because they needed to start movie 3 where Will/Liz seem right for one another..but it will change..

movie 3..apparently starts where Liz is after Will..or is trying to make it up to him and it seems as if Jack has slipped back into his old ways..so yeah..thats gonna change by the end again..

this is why the W/E shippers are all excited with those first pages of the draft script..well no T&T story starts and ends the same..dumb asses!

I found it strange how certain pages were "lost" from the draft script lol!.and the ones that did appear where the ones where will/Liz have their chatty moments..a set up ay?..all the Jack/Liz parts were pretty negative too..what was on those other pages Disney?? where there's a bit of chemistry between Jack/Liz perhaps?

yeah they totally crashed that rule but you must admit there are less book-like features in the POTC series than other disney movies like the whole living it on a cliff hanger in 2 or ending it with jack singing instead of the kiss and in normal disney movies people don't have affairs do they? even small ones that only go as far as a kiss! but they could make it less book like by making the cool, sloppy and sexy guy get the girl for a change!!!!

no i mean they have NEVER used a book end in any of their movies!! thats what I mean lol..none of the movies so far have started and ended exactly the same..movie 2 looks like it but when you look at where each character emotionally is by the end of it ..its no where NEAR where it started ..and thats why it gives me hope when Ted said "all the closure you need with the love triangle is in movie 2" so yeah its Liz who wants Jack..Jack wants Liz..and Will wants his dad and he wnats to stab/hurt Liz back ..lol"

I think thats BS about the character arc thing..they were under a lot of pressure to make him different from the critics..he was at risk of becoming stale..I actually love what he's turning in to..all cuz of Lizzie..wanna see more

agreed the characters HAVE to change for the story to progress and wether people realize it or not love is changing both jack and liz. more freedom in liz and more innocence in jack...just like their kiss

maybe they (the authors) want us just to believe that's a will/liz thing...and then surprise us?! ...i mean the facts/the symbols are against them....they wouldn't have done them just for fun...I'll keep my hope!

Well......they have not comfirmed anything, one way or the other....nothing is for sure yet...they didn't say it would be a liz/jack....or....god forbid...a liz/will ending......nobody really knows anything yet...not even them...

ted did say that the way movie 2 ended with all the emotinal moments was all the closure you needed with the love tringle..and they wouldn't have to really make a 3rd..when you look at how it ended physically..it points to Will/Liz..but Ted never said PHYSICALLY with the characters..he said how they mentally developed and ended..which actually points to Jack/Liz..Will/Darker image/Dad (or at least I hope)

Jack ended physically with his pearl/hat..but mentally was with Liz(accepted her in his life according to T&T

Liz ended physically with Will..but mentally with Jack (was thinking about him at the end T&Tjust wanted him in her life

Will ended physically with Liz..but he was mentally elsewhere..that was MORE than obvious..scary darkness about him..and he ended mentally with his dadda! (which they have said will happen)

So yeah the next chapter needs to follow the no book ends rule so they cant make it look obviously Jack/Liz from the beginning cuz it WONT end that way if we see that happen..so dont get too worried about Jack shoving Liz on Sao Feng's ship..and Liz slapping him or what ever,,and Will starting out wanting Liz..its FAKE..they hate starting and ending exactly the same way with their stories..so when you look at a trilogy..it makes more sense..that its not a Will/Liz-blip in the radar-Will/Liz


so each character is gonna start movie 3 where they physically left off in movie 2..but the mental ending of movie 2 is what counts when it comes to an end imovie 3..IMO.

Lovely One I just love you! (not physically) ....you make me happy again, thank you!!!

tHE THING OF IT IS...AGREE WITH EVERYTHING YOU SAY ..AND EVERYTHING I BELIEVE SHOULD HAPPEN WITH THIS TRILOGY...BUT SADDLY IT DOESN'T SOUND LIKE WHAT GORE, TED AND TERRY HAVE IN MIND...SO....

REALLY, I'M JUST TRYING TO PREPARE MYSELF SO i'M NOT TOO CRUSHED COME NEXT MEMORIAL DAY....2007

I'LL JUST CRY OVER MY GLASS OF RED WINE AND IMAGINE I'M WITH JACK/JOHNNY - CUZ WE ALL KNOW JOHNNY LOVES RED WINE...LOL

yeh but they did say movie 2 emotionally ends where the love triangle will end and did you get any vibe that Will/Liz were any closer together?? I ended that movie thinking WOW jack liz/ are meant to be! I didnt see it as her leaving Jack for will because she was mentally tied to him..she had to be pushed to go basically..and at the end..she was only thinking about having this man back in her life..


they ended further apart than ever before..and even I could see that when I first watched movie 1..its a pretty obvious thing

and I'm guessing the Jack/Liz ending isnt a confirmed spoiler yet becuase the ending hasnt been shot

so there is no confirmed ending yet at all..

i mean Will/Liz ended further apart than ever before..

^^ Exactly!! that's what they are going to have a REALLY hard time trying to bring them back together. that's one of the many reasons why will/liz does NOT work.

we need to make a list as to why they wont ever work out lol..

Originally posted by LovelyOne
yeh but they did say movie 2 emotionally ends where the love triangle will end and did you get any vibe that Will/Liz were any closer together?? I ended that movie thinking WOW jack liz/ are meant to be!
(...)
they ended further apart than ever before..and even I could see that when I first watched movie 1..its a pretty obvious thing

LovelyOne, that's ABSOLUTELY true. They can't slap us now with a flimsy and unconvincing will/liz ending!
Come on... in the first movie, the best moments were the jack/liz ones; and although they did not explode their chemistry to high levels they DID have a brighter spark together than will/liz had. And now, in the second movie, it's simply breathtaking -- Jack and Liz are just meant to be together - its like when you close a plastic container and it goes like *pluck!* and stays perfectly sealed -- they FIT TOGETHER!!!

Definitely, NONE of us is going to believe in an insustancial will/liz ending. And it is not because we are jack/liz followers, it is because these two movies clearly show that the heart of the trilogy resides in a jack/liz ending. If not, it would simply not make any sense... the simbolisms, all the dialog between both... are they even SLIGHTLY COMPARABLE to the will/liz scenes -- their glances, smiles, ideologies, and everything? Certainly not! Ted and Terry cannot be so shut to conclude "the second movie is only a passage for the will/liz relationship to strengthen", because if they did, they'd KILL the trilogy ignoring everything THEY have invented. Because... yes, they are the creators, the masterminds -- are they dumb to place all a blooming jack/liz interaction to then state that "oops, that didn't even happen, you didn't saw it - these characters are not changing so we'll stick with the will/liz relationship"??? NO! They created this characters; they live inside them, they know them better than anyone else -- and I am certain they will not kill them by nailing them to the ground and repressing their changes and individual evolution. The characters have to live and change -- if not, only ONE MOVIE WOULD DO THE JOB. WE WOULDN'T NEED A TRILOGY to see three characters begin and end the same; as static-blind statues. So they can't simply throw a will/liz ending.

As you said, LovelyOne, will/liz are even more apart this time -- Ted and Terry cannot ignore this because they invented it. And inventing it involves sustancial reasons, and these are clear: Jack and Liz are meant to be -- Jack adding the freedom ingredient and Liz adding the innocence seasoning to cook a breathtaking relationship.
Nor us nor them can be fooled with a will/liz ending: the first movie left a strange flavor in our mouths because will/liz, well, feel like so childish, like so "I am your first and true love because you were the first one to see me" and those kind of things. But the second movie presents a clear evolution of each character -- Will focusing on his father above Elizabeth, and jack/liz growing in a sparkling interaction full of the chemistry will/liz always lacked.

I believe Jack and Liz will end up together. The trilogy CAN'T end in another way -- if it did, I would certainly worry if I was Ted and Terry because of inventing flat-static-stone characters that don't evolve nor learn anyting nor live; but go through an adventure were they start and end being the same. And no heart can start and end the same after an adventure that unleashes its true - and sincere - being.


((I've been reading this forum everyday {almost literally} since POTC2 came out, and never dared to post -- I am not a good poster, but couldn't resist to "un-drown" myself by expressing what I felt after so much hours of reading your theories and commentaries... ))

Originally posted by tee_pirategirl
agreed the characters HAVE to change for the story to progress and wether people realize it or not love is changing both jack and liz. more freedom in liz and more innocence in jack...just like their kiss


Oh my goodness I just had to say that I love that bit you just wrote---- more freedom in liz and more innocence in Jack.... thats beautiful. thats really beautiful. i never thought about it that way... but its true there is an innocence to Jack in that moment, and a vulnerability.


i also love red wine. apparently its keira's trick for clearing up break-outs on her face. lol.

i love red wine with pita bread lol.

ill betcha ANY MONEY they shoot a few endings...that way the actors wont know how it ends either.

to me, im not giving up faith.

I agree with whoever said that everything that is being said is about Will/Liz ...and NOTHING whatsoever has been said bout the jack/liz side of things yet...or is it me that is missing something??

Yes, the actors have said how much they enjoyed kissing eachother...they've spoke about how much fun it was filming and orlando has spoken about the will/liz relationship....but has anyone read ANYTHING about the jack/liz relationship from the actors OR the writers???

ive not heard a blip...which makes me wonder oh-so-much about exactly why we've not heard anything...

why only bits of 3 were on the net and none of it was the confrontation of jack/liz....why only LIZ AND JACK have been seen in asian clothes and none of the other cast has... and more importantly, why the writers continue to talk about will/liz and how their relationship is blah blah blah...you can call me a fool, but to me it just seems like they're trying to hide something....and i think that something would be the biggest shock of all when the film comes out!!!

PS: I dont mean little cryptic tid-bits like 'waffles' and stuff...i mean proper questions that have addressed the writers as to WHY she kissed him......WHY it happened

ok as simple as this...

LETS BLOCK ALL THE NEGATIVE THINGS PLEASSEE!!!
T&T are smart ass writers. im pretty sure they know what they're doing and also the actors participate on the writing of the script too. Keira was the one who suggested the part where she chains jack.(ok nvm that doesnt help lmao)

Anyways this isnt exactlyy a childrens book for ucks sakes this is disney pg-13 in a more mature way as in more teenage angst.
Liz and wills love was as that as a childrens book "awwe i wuv u hunny bunny" and all that bolony. With liz and jack its more serious and they have a better understanding with eachother and its like reading eachothers thoughts

they actually know what that person is feeling and its a complete bond that they both have with eachother. They both understand eachother they both know what they want and they both have the same feelings and thoughts. Jack is willing to give in bc hes a pirate hello but liz is just completely freeked out bc she knows that she has to be with will bc its only right-but for society. To make her look like a descent woman married to a descent man.

Jack really doesnt seem to care.. think liz is having more troubles with herself than society and even with will.

okay guys... please dont freak out at me, cause i am going to post a very depressing dumb post, but im going to be honest with where i am at.

i think the end will be Liz/Will. (i have NO information saying for sure or anything, dont freak out)... its just a gut feeling.

I think the theories we have all come up with are fabulous and very true... but I think somehow in 3, they will turn it back around.

it will never work between Will and Liz unless they both change... big time. and i think they will. they have to. i dont like Will at all, i dont think anyone but teenage girls do. they HAVE to do something big with him... and turning him around, making him more piraty, and somehow making him worthy of the girl... that would be the only change that would make his character worth having written to begin with.


Somehow, this doesn't totally depress me. Because I still think there is an incredibly beautiful bond between Liz and Jack. And I still think they will always know each other better than anyone else... I think somehow, Disney will give us a very meaningful resolution for them. they'll have to.

i dont know. of course I'm still hoping I'll be all surprised by the ending i want... but i am going to like the film either way. seriously.
i'm just at a point where i will be happy either way.

cause if they do a liz/will ending, they WILL MAKE IT WORK... for ALL OF US... somehow they will make Will cool. i dont know how, but hey... lol... i have faith.

Jack is just outrageously incredible... no matter what, he will make the movie worth seeing.

Originally posted by Chiki Mina
ok as simple as this...

LETS BLOCK ALL THE NEGATIVE THINGS PLEASSEE!!!
T&T are smart ass writers. im pretty sure they know what they're doing and also the actors participate on the writing of the script too. Keira was the one who suggested the part where she chains jack.(ok nvm that doesnt help lmao)

Anyways this isnt exactlyy a childrens book for ucks sakes this is disney pg-13 in a more mature way as in more teenage angst.
Liz and wills love was as that as a childrens book "awwe i wuv u hunny bunny" and all that bolony. With liz and jack its more serious and they have a better understanding with eachother and its like reading eachothers thoughts

they actually know what that person is feeling and its a complete bond that they both have with eachother. They both understand eachother they both know what they want and they both have the same feelings and thoughts. Jack is willing to give in bc hes a pirate hello but liz is just completely freeked out bc she knows that she has to be with will bc its only right-but for society. To make her look like a descent woman married to a descent man.

Jack really doesnt seem to care.. think liz is having more troubles with herself than society and even with will.



*Bows down to chiki mina*

T&T are smart, your completely right. they've done all this before and they will do it again and they are not stupid enough to take the audience through a journey and then turn around at the end and go;

"Oh, sorry about that...a momentary relapse but we're now going straight back to the beginning after all the character soul-searching we did"

Also...in 3 isnt Gov swann supposed to die??

he would be elizabeths only tie to a world that did not involve piracy....shes laid bare now, which means that theres no going back for her...shes free from her former life...which may mean that will is part of that former life

am I a bad person for saying this. I really didn't CARE that Will was hurt by that kiss when I first saw movie 1..before I became a shipper..I just totally absorbed the kiss and Will/Liz just completely got knocked out of my mind. I didn't even care..I said to my mum "don't you think Jack/Liz have agreat chemistry on screen?" and she said "yes but poor Will" I honestly thought to myself...."OH YEAH..Will.!!.." not even joking..I didn't feel an OUNCE of sympathy towards him seeing that kiss I actually forgot that he was her lover...I was just like.."oh Will's head and Gibbs legs get out of the WAY!"

when she first locked him up I thought.."damn that kiss was a bit passionate even for a distraction!"

and then I thought..oh it wasn't real...

then she almost "kissed him again!" and as a person who had only seen that movie once..from that very moment I thought they were going to head that way for sure with the love triangle..if not..Why add that little moment in at the end of this movie..if its not going to continue into the 3rd??? "..

anyway..I'll shut up...just memories from what it was like before I was a shipper..and how I viewed the film..

i had a very similar reaction. i didnt think about will at all.

i was shocked and completely swept off my feet by that kiss. i had 3 panic attacks and almost ended up in hospital that night. now tell me im not a HUGE DORK> LOOL..... i guess movies tend to affect me a lot. my overactive imagination. LOL.

that moment is the climax of the entire series to that point. they wont be able to top it.

all this to say, the post i posted above is still true for me, but damn... that kiss!!!! lol

^^ yea i agree

but remember pirates one started out real good. It started out excellent bc it was an introduccion of course of the charaters and it was like a regular old disney story book thing with a lil romance added.

but what hit the box office of the 2nd movie was the incredible twist with jack/liz. So why put will/liz at the end..? wouldnt liz character look bad somehow-i dunno. Point si why put liz/will just like that then ratings down..nope

let just put all this crap as simple crap as possible

T&T said that the 3rd will practically end up like the 2nd or something like that they meant. So im really keeping my faith on this and im sure not gonna keep being negative.

yeah me too^^

I agree with you.

The movie has made 1 BILLION compared with CotbP 360 million..it was a nice movie..I loved it..but If I saw Jack remain exactly the same in movie 2.. I would have got bored..like many others..and so many people wnt to see it and see it again because of the only new, interesting aspect added into the movie which was Jack/Liz..the only way to top that kind of ending is by having a Jack/Liz end out IMO...people didnt go there to watch Will hunt after his dadda

and its not even as if the Jack/Liz aspect has been milked dry..because she left that on LUST..and the lust still has time to turn to love by the end of the trilogy..its already starting to by the end of movie 2..Jack left it on love IMO..or READY to begin loving her..


I would have said they could have gone back to Will/Liz had they not TOTALLY killed that possible relationship with SO MUCH sizzling chemistry on screen between Jack/Liz..all the symbolic things..I see this as too much to be a blip in the radar for Will/Liz..if it was just that teaser kiss in the middle then I would have bought a will/Liz ending could be on the cards..but Jack/liz has just totally overtaken it and people jept going back to get more..they must realize they can carry this on and STILL keep it interesting..

what we saw with these two was deliberatley made to look 1 million times more interesting and sexy than ANYTHING we have ever seen Will/Liz do onscreen..EVER


I've already seen a story where Jack helps Liz/Will learn to be together..why do I want to see that again?

that kind of story is what made Potc1 do so well 360 million..but the friggin LIZ/JACK is what made DMC hit the 1 BILLION mark!

i didnt like will's dad... i almost liked him less than i like will. he was passive and irritating. i was like, its your own flipping fault you ended up on the ship. you and your son are boring and not as clever as captain jack. LOL.

its going to take a whole lot for them to make Will cool. i just dont know they will do it.

im telling you jack's gonna whore will off at tortuga....

LOL that was the best post EVER

yeah i know...there's even possiblity for a cross over PoTC meets duece bigalow

Originally posted by katelovespirate
i didnt like will's dad... i almost liked him less than i like will. he was passive and irritating. i was like, its your own flipping fault you ended up on the ship. you and your son are boring and not as clever as captain jack. LOL.

its going to take a whole lot for them to make Will cool. i just dont know they will do it.

by making him bad to the bone maybe instead of honest and one dimensional??

of course he will come out of that little state of badness

well he was already becoming bad with that display of angst in dalm's hut at the end of the movie....

i agree totally with everyone!

jack/liz is interesting and the writers knew that or they wouldn't have written it.

when liz kisses will on the beach when he comes back, they do a close up of norries AND jacks reaction...if they didnt want to signify anything by this then they would not have done it..that part is a big clue for the viewers coz we see jacks reaction....and if they werent going down a jack/liz path then they would not have shown those tell-tale scenes...

3 will have more angst and more sexual tension, and NONE of it will be from will and his blip-on-the-radar-i'm-almost-not-even-really-in-the-movie role.

Gah!! i wish the writers would give us ONE interview where they actually TALK about jack/liz ....but no..they're too clever for that!!!

they know we will analyse the hell outta it and guess their plans for the pairing...which will cause them to re-write the whole thing lmao

that kiss was SUCH a display!..as soon as she kissed him did you see her turn around and give Jack that little smirk to make him jealous??..that wasnt a nice smile IMO..it was a "look how happy I AM jack" kinda thing..because he basically pulled away friom kissing her only moments before..and thats why I think she's pissed off when the compass points at him again.and thats why she gives Jack that little smirk jafter she kisses Will. Then as soon as she finds out Jack lies..she shoves will aside and its ALL about her and Jack again!! lol..Will is just like the pawn that gets shoved around when these two are playing chess..

this is whats probably gonna make him PISSED


and I agree with every word you sat T.Maria..if they gave that Jack/Liz aspect away..it would ruin the movie for us..cus its still SMOKIN HOT!..but they can give aload of crap away about will/Liz" because no one GIVES A CRAP about that relationship and what they are going to possibly see from it because its as sead as..dirt lol....they are throwing us off the scent for sure IMO.

Originally posted by LovelyOne
that kiss was SUCH a display!..as soon as she kissed him did you see her turn around and give Jack that little smirk to make him jealous??..that wasnt a nice smile IMO..it was a "look how happy I AM jack" kinda thing..because he basically pulled away friom kissing her only moments before..and thats why I think she's pissed off when the compass points at him again.and thats why she gives Jack that little smirk just as she kisses him. Then as soon as she finds out Jack lies..she shoves will aside and its ALL about her and Jack again!! lol..Will is just like the pawn that gets shoved around when these two are playing chess..

this is whats probably gonna make him PISSED


and I agree with every word you sat T.Maria..if they gave that Jack/Liz aspect away..it would ruin the movie for us..cus its still SMOKIN HOT!..but they can give aload of crap away about will/Liz" because no one GIVES A CRAP about that relationship and what they are going to possibly see from it because its as sead as..dirt lol....they are throwing us off the scent for sure IMO.

Lovelyone your on fire!!!!!

i agree with everything you've just said completely!!!

The writers ALWAYS need to have leverage....they need to know something we don't. If they went around telling people everything, there would be nothing left to know!

i mean;

1. we know about asian pirates
2. we know about will mirroring davy
3. we know about Norries/gov swanns possible deaths!!
4. we've heard all about the Lill/Wiz relationshop till our ears have bled and we've wanted to poke our eyes out with cocktail sticks!!

THESE ARE ALL HUGE AND POSSBILE SPOILERS!!!!


...but do we hear anything on Lack/Jiz???


NOT A SAUSAGE!!!!

so obviously this is the biggest spoiler of all!



I'm shipper happy!! FAITH HAS BEEN RESTORED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

AS GOD AS MY WITNESS NORRIE SAHLL NOT DIE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! *looks all heroic*

Liz is actually WITH jack throughout the majority of movie 3! apparently,..and there have been NO SPOILERS emerging with their scenes yet!

Disney know that they can use that KttC site to spread all the spoilers they want..because they are in league with it..so its probably all controlled "spoilers" coming out..the people there had NO CLUE about that end Kiss in movie 2..it took them by completle surprise!

I would conceal the whole script as I've said before. They can explain away the compass and everything else but one thing: Liz goes in for another kiss and Jack is eating it up. He's about to die and is being betrayed, yet he still is turned on. No one is that horny, sorry. He's just in love. And Liz may have THOUGHT she was doing it strictly for the others, but she goes in for another one and stops herself when it's almost too late. Hmm, wonder what would have happened had she gone for the other kiss and then the Kracken came? Twilight Zone POTC.

Originally posted by T.Maria
Lovelyone your on fire!!!!!

i agree with everything you've just said completely!!!

The writers ALWAYS need to have leverage....they need to know something we don't. If they went around telling people everything, there would be nothing left to know!

i mean;

1. we know about asian pirates
2. we know about will mirroring davy
3. we know about Norries/gov swanns possible deaths!!
4. we've heard all about the Lill/Wiz relationshop till our ears have bled and we've wanted to poke our eyes out with cocktail sticks!!

THESE ARE ALL HUGE AND POSSBILE SPOILERS!!!!


...but do we hear anything on Lack/Jiz???


NOT A SAUSAGE!!!!

so obviously this is the biggest spoiler of all!



I'm shipper happy!! FAITH HAS BEEN RESTORED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

hahaha YOU CRACK ME UP.

you guys are SOOOOO convincing you should ALL BE LAWYERS. seriously, like 2 hours ago i was convinced will and liz were doomed to be togehter, and now i have hope again!!!!!!!!!!!

Sailorleo, you also are hysterical. i LOVED your norrington shall not die bit. i love norrie. if he dies being heroic, that will be okay with me, but one way or another i want to see him without a shirt in 3... LOL

oh god! shirtless *passes out....joygasm*

Originally posted by sailorleo
oh god! shirtless *passes out....joygasm*


HAHAHAHA i know wouldnt that be HOTT!?!?!

i think, after all the naked lizzie and lizzie in her corset jokes, its time to make the female audience members happy.

they ripped off Orlando's shirt... now its time for the Commodore, and especially Jack to lose their shirts.

they should all sword fight shirtless.

heck, they should just do the whole movie shirtless.

i mean, apparently Elizabeth wears SHORTS for part of the 3rd film... what?!~ i know. seriously. whats that about.

so its def. time for Norrie and Jack to lose the clothes.

....omg! i know.....gosh....it make sense apparently b/c most viewers are women.....god....now i really want to see norrie half naked....

omg, i love the pictures those create in my mind! *thinks*

I love your theories!!!!they are so true you know what I DON'T like is that in the first 56 pages of the early draft jack trades liz as a wench to sao feng to save his own skin which actually makes sense him being a pirate and all and will going all evil and betraying him and all...but one might have hoped that he wouldn't be able to go through with it like when he came back to the pearl after he escaped...you know? it would be fine if he planned on rescuing her later from sao but he doesn't even do THAT !!! I mean that's what made the whole liz/jack thing strong...they couldn't betray each other and even liz who went through with the betrayal REGERETED IT LIKE HELL. my only hope is that it's an early draft and it will change 50 times or something and then it will be a BIT different....I'm not liking Ted and Terry...I used to think they were the greatest thing since shakespear but if they go through with...
what I DID like about the first 56 pages of the script was that in a sword fight between will/jack jack says: you want to save Elizabeth like alway..
will:so are you when you're not saving your own skin...
EVEN WILL SEES IT THAT JACK ALWAYS SAVES LIZ!!!!!!!! hahahaaaaaaa

Originally posted by sailorleo
im telling you jack's gonna whore will off at tortuga....

I love this post....this will make AWE soar past Titanic...if Jack is actually escorting these huzzies to distract Will so Jack can sweep Liz off into a private corner and make them both face their true feelings and then Will is actually the one to sail off to Tortuga with the 2 wenches while Jack and Liz continue on in their adventures.....

Here's that stupid pic of Jack with the strumpets that KTTC says is the end where Jack sails off with gizelle and scarlet...yuck...

^^^ Ha!

Do those KTTC members know that they've not done the end yet? lol
Silly little Pickles!!

I have all the faith in the world, BUT i know that if we do indeed get our ending, that it won't be mushy and all that gooey stuff that makes us bork...

coz they did that in 1 at the end, and obviously its not in jacks character to be that way...


hes far too witty and observant to be that way with a woman...and elizabeth wouldnt be his first love... he knows how to handle women and that becomes apparent in the differences between how will and jack both handle elizabeth.

But i'm liking the post (cant remember who??...may have been Kate??) that said that most of the scenes jack and liz are in in 3 are together...and WHY would they be together??
Because they have the most chemistry!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
so it makes sense for them to have as much screen time as possbile...

But remember everyone...this is a pirate movie...not an episode of dawsons creek... yes, the chemistry will be good and all that stuff that makes us love the characters being together will be there...but the writers also need to tell a story... and none of us know the ending of that yet lol.

I CAN'T WAIT for spoilers to start coming out, and the actors to start spilling the beans (like keira did when she said she got to kiss both men hehehe) about what will happen!!!!

And aslong as Jack is made a happy camper at the end of the film, i don't care what else happens
(although admittedly if Norrington kicks the bucket i will cry...coz hes schexy!!!!! and hilarious, i forgot to say hilarious!)

are you guys TRYING to ruin my life with that picture?!?~ LOL..... SOOOOOO depressing.

if that is how the movie ends--- jack flouncing with the whores--- i WILL demand my money back. that would be OUTRAGEOUSLY TRAGIC.
if he doesnt get the girl, fine. but Jack deserves WAY more than a couple of whores... he is SO MUCH BETTER THAN THAT. that would be the suckiest ending of all time.

here's a question. Is Annamaria back for 3?????

I dunno but she was supposed to be back in 2 instead of barbossa and SHE was supposed to walk down the stairs...but gore wanted the ACTUALL look of disbelief on the actors faces so he didn't tell them lol just like he didn't tell orlando that johnny and keira will kiss....and it was REAL disbelief on will's face but I guess Anamaria will be back in the 3rd if she was supposed to in the second...I hope that's not the end..cause jack would never sail away with two whores...ok he MIGHT if we get him REALLY drunk but Gissele and scarlet like to SLAP jack not SLEEP with him and and remember when gissele was like: who was she? and then slapped jack? well now she's agreed to be with jack AND scarlet...I don't think so and jack would never go that low in front of will and liz even if he IS really drunk!

THis picture actually came out with POTC 2 behind the scenes shots, so I'm hoping it's just Johnny taking a pic or something with these two actresses...nothing that's actually in the movie...cuz you are right, they like to slap Jack...and he has no interest in them...
besides why would he want to go back to whoring when he could have innocent Elizabeth..that's what all great romances are about....I've read tons and tons of romance novels...and it's always about a virgin reforming a notorious rake and having him change his wandering ways...and thus making him a more admirable and desirable character...

I don't know about ya'll..but just the fact that Jack is vexed at the beginning of DMC and we know it's because of Liz...he's fighting that attraction...then she shows up in Tortuga and he knows Will is on the Flying Dutchman...and he can't help himself...he starts all that flirting with her...this just makes him all the more sexier and manly to me...and more desirable...especially the way he is looking at her when he is describing what the compass points to...gosh that scene is on fire...and you know what....she has that giddy, shy look on her face like "ah, Jack.." well pple on KTTC say that that is a look of frustration because Jack is not being serious with her...gosh those people are clueless...I bet if we could talk to KEira she would most definitely say that that was a look of "OMG, this man is so gorgeous...I'm trying to focus on Will but OMG Jack is flirting with me, and I'm enjoying it so much....remember Will...but man oh man, what would it be like to be with Jack...."

Ted and Terry have written themselves into a corner IMO...and they best deliver or AWE will not even past the original POTC 1 - cuz I really and truly believe that the majority of the audience is dying to see what is going to happen between Liz and Jack...and no one really cares what's going to happen with Will...I know I don't....ahhhhh I hate this uncertainty....

ditto. I don't care about bloody stupid will!!!! I want captain jack sparrow

I know....I said i was going to leave this movie alone and move on with my life...but I just can't help it...I'm so addicted.

For me, If they don't plan to have Jack/Liz together in movie 3...then I wish they wouldn't have done it in movie 2...cuz all it did to me was leave me wanting more and more. I just love the coupling so much, it's all I can think about it. That's crazy, isn't it. I wanted Jack and Liz to get together in movie 1 and when that didn't happen I was okay, but then when they acted on it in movie 2 - now I'm obsessed. It has to be Jack and LIz...just too much chemistry and too many clues and symbolisms that Terry and Ted put into this movie...for it not to mean anything..I mean, why would they put all the time and effort to put in all these little and big things, just to be a bleep on the radar....

Maybe it is just a ploy....I mean we never hear who the winner of Survivor is going to be...they keep that secret...so Why Wouldn't They Keep the secret to the ending of the movie with the most potential to skyrocket next May past Titanic....and that is a curious thing that they never talk about Jack and Liz...it's everything but that....
I wish Keira were writing this movie...cuz we know for sure we'd get our ending we want...cuz she thought that kissing Johnny and the development in the relationship between Liz and jack was "FANTASTIC"

Also, Here I go one more time...why would they put all these things into the movie...if they didn't mean anything....

Beckett - pointing out that It's Fate Intervening...not a marriage interrupted..."you make great efforts to ensure Jack Sparrow's Freedom"...they so could have totally done without this if they didn't mean for it to play out in the trilogy...

The dress sinking to the bottom of the ocean..they didn't have to put that in there, but they did...because it symbolizes LIz and Will's sinking relationship...

Why have Gibbs say Jack is Vexed...then later bring it back up at Tia's when Tia lets us know that A Woman is what vexes men most.....

If Jack really wanted the Chest and THe Key most in the World...then his compass would be working...but instead, thanks to Tia...we know his compass is not working because Jack does know what he wants (but it's not what he thinks he should want, savvy?)....because he is loathe to claim what he really wants...which is a woman, Elizabeth....because Jack has never wanted or needed just one woman before, so this is disturbing to him and he is confused by this....and because he knows/thinks she wants Will

Why would they have that scene so intense when Jack explains the compass to Elizabeth "IT POINTS TO THE THING YOU WANT MOST IN THIS WORLD"...When I watch this...it so tells me that he wants Elizabeth the way he is looking at her, his body language...etc...and she responds in like with her shy, giddy expressions...

And of course....the Curiosity Conversation...nothing else totally explains Jack and LIz more so than this conversation...."We are alike"...."You will come over to my side"...."one word love, curiosity"...."you long for freedom...to act on selfish impulse...you won't be able to resist"......Why doesn't your compass work? She thinks it doesn't work cuz it keeps pointing to jack.....we don't know for sure that the compass led them to the chest...maybe it was just coincidence....that they found the island where the chest was buried....
"cuz you and I are alike...and there will come a moment when you have the chance to do the right thing...you want the rewards that follow..you're going to want to know what it taste like....I'm proud of you, Jack"...she is so disappointed that Jack didn't kiss her here...and not because she was testing him ...it was pure and simple, she wanted to know what he tastes like too.....

The hat theory by Lovelyone and the Heart Theory...it makes so much sense that the real heart Jack is after is Liz's heart and not DAvy Jones'...

And the whole Jack-Hero thing....the entire movie Jack is so out of chacacter...acting so much the coward whenever the Kracken is mentioned...running and hiding on the Pearl....screaming at his crew...hugging his jar of dirt when Pintel and Ragetti speak of the Kracken in the longboat....then in the end..after the kiss..he faces the Kracken with all the bravery and manlihood he can muster up...He appears the TRUE HERO IN HIS LAST CAMERA SHOT OF DMC...and just before that he was also shown as a hero in the halo of light and then firing the rifle....to buy time for them to escape...

All these things could not have been to make Liz and Will's relationship more interesting...no way...all it did was make it pale in comparison to what she could have with JACK....
If Ted and Terry don't follow up with this...then they will be missing out on the opportunity to pass up Titanic as the greatest all time movie....

thats another problem i will have with 3... if they take away the heroism/glory Jack went out with in 2. i mean, that shot where he draws his sword in front of the Kraken is like heart-stopping hott, just a beautiful moment of everyone literally jumping out of their seats to go with Jack into that kraken... cause they love him so much and he is suddenly doing something so admirable and heroic...

Jack has reached the "perfection" category for me in that moment... topping Anotonia Bandaras in Mask of Zorro, Westley in Princess Bride, and even Han Solo.

So if they turn things around and try to make his character LESS than that... i will be incredibly dissapointed. Ya know? If he goes back to being drunk all the time, having it out with whores, trading his friends for no reasons... you know? like, i want him to stay a pirate, but his heroic good heart came out and i want it to stay out. does that make sense?

yeah they have definately written themselves into a corner.

Because if they do the RIGHT ending, whats going to happen to Will? That have to give him a satisfactory ending too... but what could that be?

great post lovethemtigers, you just hit the nail on the head..In no way should this be a Will/Liz ending..you don't just add all of these things into a movie if they don't lead to where they are all POINTING which is Jack/Liz. I mean COME ON!! a compass POINTS to what you want most in this WORLD not in a town, not in a village this entire WORLD...when it points to the chest it just means she wants to SAVE WILL the most in the WORLD ..because thats all the feelings she HAS for Will..that she just wants him to be SAFE..she doesn't want him as a MAN..and this probably explains why she chose to keep HIM safe at the end in stead of Will..when it was a life or death moment..she saves who she wanted to SAVE most throughout the entire movie.

There is It's not just a one sided thing either with Jack/Liz they made a point that Elizabeth wants Jack and that Jack wants Elizabeth TOO..you don't just ADD that into a story and have it end where they say No i don't want this kind of life without even TRYING to be together....even though in REAL life thats a possible thing..in STORIES you just don't TEND to do that..

There is an old rule when writing stories/movies etc "NOTHING is added into a story unless it LEADS to something" you don't ADD 45 minutes of suggestive messages just to deceive people!..you just don't DO IT in stories..honestly..tell me a story where you point to something that is pretty solid..like Liz wanting Jack and Jack wanting Liz..and then by the end of the story you say "oh that was just nothing"...I have never seen that happen..you usually see them get together and they either WORK as a couple or they don't..and THAT is where you decide to cut it off in a story or not..and to be honest with you..even as LIZ DID THAT TO JACK..everything about her body language told us that she STILL wants this man...and this man STILL wants her when he dies!

Jack and Elizabeth are VERY alike..people say that she feels bad about trading a man's life to save her own..WHAT A LOAD OF BULL! she has been DOING THIS SINCE MOVIE 1 and not GIVING A CRAP!!! only THIS time she did it to someone she is IN LOVE WITH (although she probably still thinks she's not) Its been OBVIOUS from the very get go that this woman has feelings for him but is in DENIAL..so yeah by movie 3..she's probably in love with him but doesn't believe it..she has LOVE for this man and it has smacked her in the FACE like a ton of BRICKS by the end of movie 2!

JACK GOT SMACKED in the face with a ton of bricks when HE betrayed Liz and left her to die! only HE is a bit ahead of Liz when it comes to being a pirate and realizing how much it hurts when you betray and leave the one you LOVE to DIE!..he went BACK because he is AHEAD of Elizabeth when it comes to accepting his feelings..LIZ is learning VERY slowly..

Its all heading to a place where a pirate/pirate long term relationship can work..because the onlt way that can work is if you DONT betray the one you love..and they are BOTH learning that it HURTS when you do..thats all I'm going to say.

Originally posted by lovethemtigers
I love this post....this will make AWE soar past Titanic...if Jack is actually escorting these huzzies to distract Will so Jack can sweep Liz off into a private corner and make them both face their true feelings and then Will is actually the one to sail off to Tortuga with the 2 wenches while Jack and Liz continue on in their adventures.....

Here's that stupid pic of Jack with the strumpets that KTTC says is the end where Jack sails off with gizelle and scarlet...yuck... see if that pic isn't showing him plotting...don't know what is

very well, lovelyone, i totally agree with you. has someone noticed that in part 1 the deleted peas in a pod scene, when jack tells her that, she is lost in his look, eyes...and as soon as norri comes she is in denial in front of norri...she looks the way, "oh, i'm an innocent little girl, I have nothing done" ( i mean she didn't do it without a reason)

That is one of the best scenes. If only it had stayed in. That would show the KTTC kiddies a thing or two.

I wouldn't think Disney would want to make a movie where their leading man ends up getting a bunch of diseases because he chooses two, not one but two, whores at the end. Don't Scarlett and Giselle just look like they're crawling with syphillis?

Originally posted by lovethemtigers
I love this post....this will make AWE soar past Titanic...if Jack is actually escorting these huzzies to distract Will so Jack can sweep Liz off into a private corner and make them both face their true feelings and then Will is actually the one to sail off to Tortuga with the 2 wenches while Jack and Liz continue on in their adventures.....

Here's that stupid pic of Jack with the strumpets that KTTC says is the end where Jack sails off with gizelle and scarlet...yuck...








^^^bullshit those damn KTTC bull shit eaters

is either:
a) johnny depp teasing u know how he is
b) maybe trying to make liz jelous since shes being so stubborn
c) we are not ****ing sure so those KTTC ppl need to eat their fingers so they wont type so much made up crap.

sorry but it just pisses me off

Originally posted by willofthewisp
That is one of the best scenes. If only it had stayed in. That would show the KTTC kiddies a thing or two.

I wouldn't think Disney would want to make a movie where their leading man ends up getting a bunch of diseases because he chooses two, not one but two, whores at the end. Don't Scarlett and Giselle just look like they're crawling with syphillis?


i laughed SO HARD at that bit- crawling with syphillis---- SERIOUSLY you are soooo funny!!!

if Jack walks off at the end with the two whores, that will ruin the movie for me.

they arent even pretty. they are wearing WAYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY too much make up, and they are filthy!!!!!!!!!!!! EWE sick. Jack is so much better than that.

after passionately kissing the woman he truly cares for???
after going on this intense journey?
after all of that? being satisfied to sleep with a couple of whores?!

WHAT IS WRONG WITH DISNEY!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!

^^^ its not disney!!! disney is not gonna let jack end up with 2 whores and live happily ever after with gonorrea and herpes and other crap.

there are so many ppl in the inteternet who likes to make up so so so many many MANY crap just crap. im not gonna pay ttention to rumors-really these ppl have nothing else to do seriously.

Originally posted by Chiki Mina
^^^ its not disney!!! disney is not gonna let jack end up with 2 whores and live happily ever after with gonorrea and herpes and other crap.



very good point!!

at the end of the day people want to see JACK.

Not WILL...JACK!!!.


In the disney shop do they sell WILL costumes for the kiddies?!

NO!

They have JACK and ELIZABETH costumes!!

And why??

Because JACK is the HERO and the HERO ALWAYS gets the girl!!!
(And i think the liz costumes are there because they're pretty dresses lol )

Even if you go by the disney theme with the happy ending and what-not..the hero gets the girl at the end of the day, and if you ask ANYONE who the hero of the film is, everyone says JACK...the rogue, the scallywag...the good man!



Originally posted by LoveThemTigers

And the whole Jack-Hero thing....the entire movie Jack is so out of chacacter...acting so much the coward whenever the Kracken is mentioned...running and hiding on the Pearl....screaming at his crew...hugging his jar of dirt when Pintel and Ragetti speak of the Kracken in the longboat....then in the end..after the kiss..he faces the Kracken with all the bravery and manlihood he can muster up...He appears the TRUE HERO IN HIS LAST CAMERA SHOT OF DMC...and just before that he was also shown as a hero in the halo of light and then firing the rifle....to buy time for them to escape...

All these things could not have been to make Liz and Will's relationship more interesting...no way...all it did was make it pale in comparison to what she could have with JACK....
If Ted and Terry don't follow up with this...then they will be missing out on the opportunity to pass up Titanic as the greatest all time movie....

THAT IS SUCH A GOOD POINT!!!!!!

Jack becomes the hero by the end of the second film..which measn he is inevitably the hero of the third too, and therefore he will get the girl....

IMO anyway

Will was considered the hero in the first film bc since he rescued jack and he also got the gurl. But heroes have flaws and weakness do they..?? its time to change and to take over-and thats where jack comes and he gets the gurl by movie 2!!

so it wouldnt make sense for will to be the hero in movie 3 and have liz!!
liz woul be like a ping pong will gets liz first then jack then will again WTF.

it is proven that jack can be the hero but not just any hero elizabeths hero and he has come to proove that u can be a pirate and be a hero at the same time. become one making him a good man just like elizabeth knew he would be.

I wouldn't call Jack a hero in movie 1..he's pretty weak when it comes to protecting people HE DOES protect them but..its a more run though the raindrops deal..in his mind he still cares about his own skin more than the ones he is saving when it comes to helping other people..There is a huge difference between the way he handles those situations in movie 1 compared with the end of movie 2..and what was the one thing he realized before he went to face that kind of situation again? That his compass pointed and stuck on Elizabeth (where as before it was pointing to and away from her not knowing if he should love her or not)..so this time DAMN he's saving someone that he friggin loves..and the differnce between the way he handles that kind of situation at the end of this movuie is amazing..He's been in situations where his friends are in danger etc..and its still a run through the raindrops deal..bur when he realizes he's gotta protect someone he loves it transforms him as a man.

.but by the end of movie two BLOODY HELL thats friggin bravery..Ive NEVER seen Jack be as brave as that when he's helping people in the past...

and when does jack EVER face death in order to save other people?..I'm not talking about coming back to the kraken..I mean the whole fact he was wiling to stay on the Pearl to die for other people!

that whole last scene where he shows such maturity and bravery with the rifle and him being chained up was the single most "un-jackish" thing I have ever seen in my LIFE



Why did he actually wait and LET liz chain him up..he actually waits to see if she will do it then smiles..(and it wasn't to see if she was a pirate.he already KNOWS she is because she has betrayed him before..he was waiting to see if she liked the KISS)

where were all of his persuasion techniques like he usually uses to get out of life or death situations?

why was he not ANGRY?...and all bemused and confused like last time she betrayed him..and left him for dead

because this time he was gonna friggin stay anyway..and why did Liz not even NOTICE this huge shift in his character until much later??silly strumpet..

yes that last scene was very "un jack-ish" like lovelyone said.

1) u never see jack risking his life over a person
2) u cant say he came back for the pearl bc at the end he did say "abandon ship..its only a ship mate"
meanwhile the ****ers from KTTC said he came back exclusively for his precious pearl. how the hell his gonna rescue the pearl by carrying it over his soulder??? put it in a bag????
3) u expect jack to yell ''HELP LIZ HAS GONE PSYCHO AND CHAINED ME UP!!'' but he didnt it was HIS decision to stay and face the kraken its not exactly that liz made him do it it was HIS xhoice to stay and fight for elizabeth.

i guess he wanted her to know that by staying and face the kraken. so that liz could always remember the day she fell in love with CAPTAIN jack sparrow lool

he does face death for other people in movie 1..but the way he does it is usually quite different to how we see it at the end of movie 2..he's usually trying to save them but also has his own safety at the top of his mind..but in movie 2..he comes back..is amazingly mature and brave and very set on what he is doing..he's not worrying about how safe he is in that scene..he's concerned about finding Elzabeth making sure she is ok and he's waiting for Will to fall off of what he's about to shoot at..

I mean usually if he's at risk of dying he doesnt do those kinds of things things. he puts himself first..and THEN makes sure the others are safe..so I could totally imagine the Jack of movie 1 actually shooting the thing whilst Will's still on it if he was scared about dying himself......and he actually decided to die for everyone else afterward...friggin amazing..you gotta love that man.

i already love that man lol

All great points. Other than Barbosa marooning him in the first place, Liz is the only person who's ever really gotten the best of Jack. She outplayed him in the kiss scene and she's the only "worthy opponent" for lack of a better phrase. She's so virginal and, I don't care what you say, she does have a strong sense of what is right and tries to do right most of the time. But she also has her devilish side, and Jack loves both, so much that he wants her in a dress (meaning her innocent side) or nothing (her pirate side).
Really, most of her innocence has already been taken-- being kidnapped by pirates, being marooned by them, participating in sea battles, thrown in jail, being a stowaway, sailing with a pirate crew, and then abandoning a guy on a ship that's about to go down will do that to you. So her sexual innocence is all that's left besides her sense of right and wrong.

wow... that was a great post. very nicely put.

i vote Jack gets her sexual innocence. Will can have her sense of right and wrong.

LOL.

All I'm saying that Jack has in no way, shape, or form taken advantage of her. He hasn't forced her to turn pirate or to play such an active role in defending the Pearl in the first movie. Did you see her barking orders and shooting and fighting with the rest of them? No ordinary high class girl would do that. So he certainly will not force her to lose her virginity.
He didn't force her to kiss him, and even in the curiosity scene where they had the opportune moment (I use that phrase a lot now), he didn't initiate it. She made the first move and he got turned on.

Originally posted by willofthewisp
All I'm saying that Jack has in no way, shape, or form taken advantage of her. He hasn't forced her to turn pirate or to play such an active role in defending the Pearl in the first movie. Did you see her barking orders and shooting and fighting with the rest of them? No ordinary high class girl would do that. So he certainly will not force her to lose her virginity.
He didn't force her to kiss him, and even in the curiosity scene where they had the opportune moment (I use that phrase a lot now), he didn't initiate it. She made the first move and he got turned on.


totally, TOTALLY agree. thats whats so curious and hott about their pairing. you always expect Jack to just get fed up and take what he wants from her... but he never does. its usually her doing it. LOL.
she could totally captain a ship. she's awesome like that. she is a very skilled seaman (er, seawoman), wears pirate clothing nicely, and can handle a sword with the best of them. she's made to be jack's partner.
i think sometimes Jack is bewildered that he is barely doing anything to goad her on, and she still keeps going more and more pirate.

Yeah, I already think they don't realize how much they're flirting with one another. Look at the scene where he shows her his compass. Now, true he didn't tell her he kind of sweet-talked Will into going on the Flying Dutchman, but he doesn't give it a second thought to tell her about the compass. I bet few people know what it really does. And the way he tells her, like it's this epic legend and only the two of them are in on it. I don't think he realizes how intimate he's making that.

WOAH you are just on fire tonight. i need to go write a paper... but WOW these responses are all soooo good!!!!

"its this epic legend and only the two of them are in on it. I don't think he realizes how intimate he's making that."

thats my favorite thing ever... oh my gosh... seriously... its so true and incredible... thank you for that!

he's making her part of his legend.

just a random thought..


what kind of person says something like "we're not free yet love" after some one says "thank you" to them?

and does he actually say we're..or You're?

and Willofthewisp I agree with you...and you know what freaks me out?? BECKETT KNOWS EXACTLY WHAT IT DOES..he's been talking to Tia before hand who is the one who basically made that compass. IMO she's told him something about Will/Liz that will effect the future of the EITC!

he seems to be hinting quite a lot that he is doing them a favour by spliting them up "wedding stopped or fate intervennes" and if they stay married they will DIE

why would they effect the furutre of the EITC? because LIZ is in a place of high power and if Will marries her he gets that power once Liz's dad dies..and he's not going to let them do ANYTHING to hurt pirates the way he feels about them at the moment!

they need to make him start caring about NO ONE but himself..so he wont give a crap how many people die for what ever cause

and how to do it?

Split them up..make her go with a pirate..and "rip his heart out" by choosing the pirate..

I think Will has the potential to be a very powerful man in the future..so they are controling his fate to make him be that powerful man in their favour..

Tia has her end of some sort of deal before hand..and IMO its to make Jack her equal by offering him immortality AFTER she has made him a man worthy of her..and the only way he will become a champion is if she gives him the chance to be with the woman he cares about so much so that he is willing to die for..and be amazingly brave for..

Tia.Calypso thinks he will accept but just like Calypso in the odyssey when she thought she was making Odysseus her champion..totally underestimated how much the woman in the equation meant to Odysseus