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Shaak Ti vs. Kit Fisto

Which movie?

Crap, I gotta go. (Work) I'll definantly answer this tomorow!
See ya Quin!

I think Kit fisto would take this 1 but he Shhak wont go down without a good fight

Saber skills = Shaak Ti (she uses Makashi, THE saber dueling form, while Kit uses Form one, which I don't think is that great with dueling).

Force Skills = ?

Battle Experience = Both were High Generals in the Clone Wars. Kit dueled Asajj and lost - Shaak Ti fought like a dozen Magnaguards and was winning (which was bs), fought Grievous twice and lost both times, and defeated Dark Jedi Artel Darc.

So, as far as I know, Shaak Ti has betetr dueling skills as well as more dueling experience. So I say that she wins in one hell of a battle.

The Magnagaurds were there to distract her

Originally posted by Council#13
The Magnagaurds were there to distract her

You think they were holding back?

Yes. Grievous obviously thought Shaak Ti was the most dangerous of the three Jedi, although he definately would not have been afraid of her. Why else would the Magnagaurds back off instead of just slaughtering her?

Yes, they were trying to distract her but they weren't exactly holding back.

Distracting is not the same as killing

I think you misinterpreted what happened. They were trying to do as much as they could to keep her away from Grievous as she was the biggest threat - killing her would have the same effect. They were distracting her, but by definition that wouldn't mean that they weren't going for the kill, just that the least they could do would be to hold her back; killing would be an added bonus. There would be no reason for them to hold back - they just had to keep her away from Grievous and killing her would ensure that.

Well now, you put up a very good argument. Perhaps I did misinterpret it. But really. If they did want to kill her, why not finish the job? Why leave her alive?

Well she was just too damn good, and they realised it was no longer necessary as Grievous had pretty much achieved his goal.

She was in pretty big pain, I'm sure. Her arm was smacked several times. If they all moved in together then they could have overcome her. Anyway, you're probably right. Or maybe they were just tiring her out, so that Grievous could finish her....

Grievous saw that she was to tired, he only needed to strike at her once. Afterwards, I bet he only had some fun hanging her in those wires...

Shaak Ti wins this, but not easily.

I'd say Kit actually. He takes out two MagnaGuards in seconds in LoE.

Shaak Tii makes for great hentaishifty

ew...

it was a joke(search around in toonplaza)shiftyshifty

You're banned!

hysterical

KIT ftw!!!! because hes cool and green

Shaak Ti wins this. Shii-Cho is bad for facing a single opponent, especially a Makashi wielding opponent, like Shaak. They appear to be equals in speed, Shaak Ti fighting an army of MagnaGuards and hitting them before they could react and Kit slicing through two MagnaGuards with ease. The dueling edge should go to Shaak. Dooku considered her a threat to Grievous and she only lost because she was exhausted in both bouts, she held of Anakin Skywalker and was generaly belived to be one of the best swordsmen of her day. She also appears to be more powerful in the Force, using tutaminis, kinetite, controling plants and animals, etc. She takes this, though Kit is not going down without a fight.

Originally posted by WollfMyth
Shaak Ti wins this. Shii-Cho is bad for facing a single opponent, especially a Makashi wielding opponent, like Shaak. Didn't stop him from facing Obi-Wan Kenobi and being better than him in the Cestus Deception. Shii-Cho on-paper is bad for facing single opponents but Fisto takes it to such a level that that can be thrown out the window. You could make a case for Makashi being a good counter for Shii-Cho but then the only time that ever came into play for Fisto was after Ventress had studied his fighting style and ambushed him. So I'm not convinced Shaak's presence as a lone fighter or her lightsaber style is going to impact this in any significant manner.

As for the thread, Fisto is the better duelist by a fair margin while Ti is much stronger in the Force by TFU. Although if we're going by their RotS incarnations Ti's edge in power isn't really a factor.

If it's TFU Ti going with her, if it's RotS versions, which is kind of what this thread had planned for initially given it was created in 2006, I'm going with Fisto.

Shaak Ti is superior in either incarnation. She is basically pretty much stated to be on the levels of Obi-Wan, Dooku, Windu and Depa.. not to mention Skywalker.

Going by your line of thinking Shaak Ti conceded that Fisto is superior to her, lol.

Two different things:

The narrative of the ROTS novel makes that statement.

However characters have believed all sorts of things, NJO Luke believed Yoda, not himself, was the most powerful Jedi ever. Windu thought Kenobi to be superior for mastering a classic form, etc, etc..

Regardless Shaak Ti performed better against Grievous and a swathe of MaganGuards than Fisto did against Grievous and much less... he basically ran away.

Ti merely survived against Grievous for a decent period of time before being defeated, and she stalemated a single Magnaguard for a long time with her lightsaber. Her defeating the other Magnaguards was due to her electrostaff, which makes little sense but I digress. Fisto actually disarmed Grievous and had him on the losing end, forcing him to call in Magnaguards for help. And on another occasion Fisto absolutely wrecked a pair of Magnaguards.

Regardless, Fisto has a form advantage over Grievous and TCW Grievous is awful to begin with in comparison to the one Shaak fought, so comparing their fights against Grievous isn't a sure fire way of comparing their dueling skill anyway.

Fisto just has better dueling feats, plain and simple. Being both faster and more skilled than AotC Kenobi puts him above Shaak Ti, due to Kenobi's ability to challenge Dooku at this point in time, and going by accolades Fisto has Ti beaten out. Yeno, unless we misconstrue some statements into them meaning that Shaak Ti is one of the best in the Order and a peer of Dooku like people so often do with her...

I am siding with Fisto on this one, I don't know how effective Shaak Ti's makashsi is, but clearly she is not on Ventress's level.

Btw, Fisto didn't out-sparred Obi-Wan in CD, Obi-Wan just said that Fisto is better ''swordfighter'' than himself because he was faster and more aggressive, swordfighter & duelist , these are different things.



''better swordfighter'' not better duelist or fencer.

Obi-Wan and Fisto sparred over one hour, each seeking holes in other's defense.

''Comparision with Obi-Wan's more measured style'' this part is important, Obi-Wan is using more measured style it is also suitable for lightsaber duels, unlike Fisto's Shii-Cho.




In the AotC novel, it is clearly says that Dooku is not a ''swordfighter'' , means swordfighter types can destroy group of droids, creatures etc. much easier, while Dooku type fencers, duelists can be much more effective in lightsaber to lightsaber combat only.

Fencing is a form of swordfighting, as is dueling in the context of two people fighting with swords (aka lightsabers). Argue semantics all you want... Fisto was more skilled than Kenobi at that point.

And even if you wanted to argue semantics and say that Fisto is a better "swordfighter" but not a better "duelist", there's still no getting around the fact that he deliberately held back on Obi-Wan during that sparring session, which clearly indicates that he's more skilled.

Not possible, they sparred over 1 hour, and each seeking holes in the other's defense.

It is also possible that's why Kit held himself back, because he could give opening to Obi-Wan, if you attack someone blatantly you can also give an opening, that is why dun moch works in lightsaber combats.

Shaak Ti has far more than just one quote to support her being in the upper echelons of the High Council.

Praised by Kenobi? check.
Praised by Dooku? check.
Praised by Windu? check.

Also you're way over simplifying the fight they had on Coruscant, she along with a few Jedi fought Grievous whilst attempting to protect the Chancellor for what seemed like fairly long as this seemed to carry on during the battle itself.
During this she outwitted the Kaleesh repeatedly, used Force Speed to a degree that she was out-running a train, used Force Jump across towers, etc... finally she tried to save the Chancellor by seemingly throwing herself at the lone enemy MagnaGuards when Grievous wasn't around, and was clearly dominating them in their fight, destroying eight of them despite them numbering fifteen.

This is then revealed to be a ruse, meant to draw Ti away from the Chancellor, then she attempts the save and finally, after a marathon of a rescue attempt goes down.

To get back to the original debate, I highly doubt that I am the one taking the aforementioned ROTS quote out of context, as when actually taking into context the entire page and what it is going to the trouble of narrating, you get a pretty obvious conclusion.

Which is whether or not Obi-Wan is the best choice to take down Grievous, it then goes on to describe why he, such a seemingly simple Form III duelist, is so skilled.

Because he is simplicity itself and that itself is a strength, Windu actually extrapolates on this by saying that himself and Yoda are merely substituting for their own respective weaknesses, whereas Kenobi has taken a classic form to it's highest degree.

This in turn has concluded for us that the 'great sword-beings of the Order' are Yoda, Windu, Dooku, Anakin, Ti, Depa and Kenobi himself.

This is however ignoring a whole ton of other Ti feats, so let's not ignore:

Tanking a blaster shot between the globes.

Dodging simultaneous omni-directional blaster shots without any injury whilst also using TK to move someone else out the way.

Healing said blaster shot after stomping the mercenaries that had attacked her.

Solely protecting her Clone Troopers from a droid army long enough for Ki-Adi Mundi to mount the rescue.

Blitzed droids from a considerable distance then uses TK and lightsaber throw to destroy another group.

Blocking several electrostaff blows with her bare hands.

Used Tutaminis to block a lightsaber strike.

Displays Force Speed comparable to a blaster bolt.

Used Telekinesis to collapse a tunnel, something Obi-Wan states is incredible.

The TFU CG points to her immediately causing a considerable effect on Felucia during her arrival, with the Light Side immediately returning some balance to the planet. The Prime Guide also goes on to say that Ti's 'force link' to Maris Brood is what stopped her from going full DS straight away.

I also question separating the feats of ROTS Ti and TFU Ti, especially those of a lightsaber, it's not as if she had anyone to fight in those 16 years, which if and of itself makes her utter domination of Starkiller even more impressive.

Originally posted by ILS
Being both faster and more skilled than AotC Kenobi puts him above Shaak Ti, due to Kenobi's ability to challenge Dooku at this point in time

Kenobi challenged Dooku in that fight?

Originally posted by Trocity
Kenobi challenged Dooku in that fight? To some degree, yes, which is especially impressive given that Kenobi was using Ataru in that fight, a form Dooku knows inside and out.

Was Dooku winning solidly? Yep. But Kenobi wasn't so bad that he couldn't hold on for lengthy period of time, and Dooku's knowledge of Kenobi's form wasn't helping matters. And there was a period in the fight where Kenobi was able to genuinely challenge Dooku, which I underlined.

And Fisto was both faster and more skilled than Kenobi around this time period. In my mind this gives him more claim to being superior to Shaak Ti than her overhyped statements.

Originally posted by ILS


Ahhh, I see. I actually haven't read the AOTC novel ( Or TPM ) and was just going off the performance in the movie. He certainly appeared to fare somewhat better from reading that passage you provided.

Fisto is more skilled imo but his chosen form lacks precision and Shaak Ti is a master of Makashi so he's kinda screwed. On paper Ti wins but I still reckon Fisto is more crafty

Shaak ti fans are their own special breed of cancer.

Ti.

Shit matchup for Fisto.

Yeah Shaak.