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Ok I know a lot of people here probably wont agree with me..but I don't think Jack is smiling like that because she is behaving like a pirate by betraying him..the dude is smiling like that because he can clearly see that she loved what he tasted like.

Jack knows that Elizabeth is a pirate..because she has betrayed him to save her own life once before..and she seduced him to do it back then too..and he realized that she doesn't have feelings for him in that way(YET)..and she has betrayed lots of other people too in order to save her own life...and Jack knows it..

What he doesn't know...is if she actually wants him..and once she has had a taste of him..will she still want him?

Jack wants the woman its obvious..and not just for sex..so he is desperate to know if there is even a chance...

In the curiosity scene IMO, Jack is basically telling Liz that one day she wont be able to resist coming over to HIS side..to be with him..and she will act on selfish impulse..one day she wont be able to resist him as in she wont be able to resist tasting him..to see what HE'S LIKE

I know he doesn't literally say it but as T.Maria says..they are trying to not make the Jack/Liz thing too obvious too early on so its all bloody CRYPTIC talk..honestly this movie confuses us all so much because of all the symbolisms they use and not actual flat out obvious statements that these two friggin want each other and why? Cuz its only the middle of the over all story so they don't wanna give too much away in movie 2 IMO..and when movie 3 comes out and you watch movie 2..you will be like..."OH YEAH now I understand what he's really saying there!!" I bet you!

So yeah this scene totally isn't about him wanting her to be a pirate..because by movie 1 she has already proven to be one to him...he just wants to know if this woman wants him as a MAN..

and when you look at it this way it makes much more sense to the rest of the story in movie 2 because she is actually starting to find it hard to resist Jack Sparrow all of a sudden...she's in no way finding it hard to resist being a bloody pirate in this movie. She's quite obviously embracing the more free side to being a pirate in movie 2 without a worry because she is already a pirate at heart and she knows it..

When you look at what he's saying in that way about her resisting the temptation of issing him and how one day she will to see what it's like the end scene then makes a WHOLE LOT MORE sense because If betraying him like a pirate was the thing she was truly worried bout doing..and was resisting then..why did she find it so EASY to make the choice?.. I mean that look of pure determination on her face once she did it..betraying people is NOT hard for her..she's used to doing it to save herself....I kept asking myself why she looks as if she has no care in the world once locking him there and then all of a sudden you see her basically go weak in the knees.

IMO the betrayal wasn't the thing she was contemplating doing in that scene because its not in her nature to worry about betraying someone when HER life is in danger..she does it all the friggin time even to her friends..she's actually wondering if she should taste Jack or not before she does it..She could have used one of the guns to force him to stay there..she could have used her sword all whilst his back was turned...but NO..no no..she gives into the temptation of tasting Jack before she does it she decided to use that as a way to betray him..when she didn't have to..

So yes she kisses him and damn she gives him one heck of a good mouth wrestle because its the very thing she was tempted to try through out most of the movie..and she can make meal out of it if she wants to because she doesn't have to face the repercussions later cuz she is going to betray him either way..if she likes it or not..because during times of danger..as usual..she will put herself first no matter what. Jack has to die so she can live in her mind..thats the selfish thing about it..she's going to kiss him and leave him no matter what..despite the fact she knows he wants her..

So when she actually chains him there..Jack doesn't actually smile because she's betrayed him..she's done this to him before..she's used seductive techniques to betray him on the beach so he pretty much expects it..he smiles cuz this time she used a kiss ..and he quietly waits to see what her reaction will be..to see if she liked it..he sees that she's having trouble trying to stay focused on his eyes..because hers keep slipping back to his lips....he then sees if he can prompt her to kiss him again..he looks at her lips and this causes her to basically almost kiss him again..this is enough for Jack..he smiles with satisfaction and and says "pirate" with pride..and its not because she has just acted like one because she has done it before to him. Its because she loved that kiss and she wants more..its basically saying "you are MY pirate"(again the annoying cryptic crap)

And then look at Liz's reaction LOL..she realizes he was right about her..she would want to taste him one day..and when she did..she would LOVE it..her face says all "no i don't!" and Jack actually looks as if he is about to laugh at the denial..and his face says "yes you do!" and then she leaves

she was never tempted to be a pirate in the movie..they made it obvious that she was in fact tempted to kiss Jack..so the end scene is not about her temptation to betray someone it's about being tempted to kiss jack to see what its like..IMO..thats what the whole movie was building to..it wasnt building towards her being selfish..it was building towards her snogging his face of..all the chemistry..the flirts..the almost kisses?? all that was building up to her becoming a true pirate? I dont think so..cuz the woman already is one and Jack/herself know she is because both know she has done it in the past..what both characters dont know is if she wants Jack as a man..

just to make my point extra clear

and I think I could have just said that^^^ Instead of that one MASSIVE post..so I'm sorry about that lol

Oh and yeah..look at what she does once he says "pirate"..she realizes that he was right about her loving it and then she looks back at his lips looks a bit pissed off and then says with her face "no i dont!"

lol get out of the DENIAL STAGE *****!

what does IMO mean?

It means "in my opinion." Sometimes you'll see an h in it which means "in my humble opinion."

LovelyOne, that's what I have always thought the smile meant. Yes, he's thrilled that she's not hiding her pirate side anymore, but this is when I think he's realized just how much she means to him. Yeah, he came back to face the Kracken and was basically her hero, but he could have talked his mind into believing any number of things. "It was just the right thing to do and she was right about that" or "I had to come back to save the Pearl." Whatever. But in the kiss scene, they're alone and there is no one to get in the way. She's just proven she does want him and he was right about her and then it hits him. He's been falling in love with her.

IMO= in my opinion.


great post, as always. lots of great ideas mentioned.

i go back and forth with this one. aside from this being a moment where i have trouble seeing straight due to massive heart palpitations because of the hottness, i always change what i think this part means.

some of the time, i think when Jack says pirate, its sort of a half-hearted praise of not only her, but himself as well... as in, I can corrupt everyone to be like me, even Liz.

most of the time, i think he's finding it an incredible turn on to SURRENDER and BE CONTROLLED by someone. Jack is a high control person... always in charge of himself and other people... always manipulating everyone to act a certain way, and we know from scientific studies and the human experience that high control people sometimes find it intoxicating to suddenly be controlled by SOMETHING or SOMEONE.... its like a blissful high of a new experience... and he is realizing he just got pawned into quite a situation by someone he THOUGHT he could control.... but who actually is controlling him! and with little more than wit and sex appeal! and he's thinking, i could never have predicted THIS... and its HOTT... because i am surrenduring and its so new and frightening and wonderful....

does all that make sense?

as far as the lizzie side of things, i think you hit the nail on the head. Liz has always been a pirate and always acted like one... albeit, never so obviously. she usually covers her behavior with some BS... but this time she cant. ya know? lol.

look at it though guys..look at what she does when he says "pirate" its basically "see I told you you would love to taste me" and then she actually looks back at his lips and gets pissed off that he was right..and she basically says "no I didnt love it" and she then runs off..this is what makes her strong enough to leave him..it was the denial coming back to her..

Jack kows she means a hell of a lot to him..he's worried about taking her throughout most of the movie because it is love that he has for her..and if he allowes himself to have her it means "he's not free and that he will be tied down by her" thats the only reason why he was not using full force to take her in the movie IMO..she's tempting him just as much as he is tempting her and when she shows him that she wants him badly..he desires her all the more..so yes that was the moment he though..OK i'm going to HAVE YOU NOW!

and Liz has never been afraid to show her pirate side...she does it all the time its not about accepting it either because she basically has the second we see her break out of jail..

you know... i havent ever used the word "love" when it comes to Liz and Jack... and right now, I dont think I will. I just don't know enough to call it "love"... meaning the romantic sort of love that gets people married.

i think as i have said before there is a really incredible bond, a sort of spiritual/mental/emotional connection there that is way more significant than any other relationship in the film. I also think there is physical attraction to the MAX... lol... obviously. they connect, they fit together, they balance each other out...


being IN LOVE IMO is when people have accepted their feelings and literally jumped together, took the plunge, admitted how they feel to each other and are actively pursuing it. thats just the way i see it.


so as of now, i'm not going to say love. i hope i will get to in 3...

Well, I like to say that we're watching them fall in love. They're not quite there yet. Well, I think Jack is. I think he realized he's in love. Liz probably hasn't, but he'll let her take her time. If the movie series goes in the direction we want it to go, we will see them form that kind of lasting love you're talking about, Kate. It has to be shown in this next movie that it's stronger and longer lasting than the puppy love she had with Will.

yeah thats for sure. i NEVER called her and will's thing Love. please. that would dishonor the word.

i really hope we get to see that. oh that would be wonderful.

yes Iwhen I say love. I more or less mean: "DEEP feelings for her" and its just easier and faster to say love lol

To me it doesnt make sense why she shows that she wants him there but then leaves(if she realizes that the man really wants her in return as in cares for her)..I could NEVER do that to someone if I knew they loved me its like a proper stab in the heart and she would have shown more guilt there had she done it to him and realized that he in fact has deep feelings for her..she realizes it all to LATE imo..thats why we only see it later..after she has had some time to think things over a lil bit..


She knows that he often comes back to protect people when they are in danger..so him coming back thrilled her yes..but its what Jack always does...she knew he had it in him for a long time..so at that point what he did wasnt enough to make her feel guilty about what she is doing..yes he showed some amazing heroic things there but for all liz knows..he didnt actually do it for her...

so what was it that made her suddenly show so much guilt later on?

IMO she realizes that Jack was in fact going to stay on the pearl to DIE for her..once she has thought it over..she realizes that he put up no fight when she chained him there..no babbling words of persuasion..no anger towards her..all those are the actions of a man who has accepted he wants to die for her.

And when Liz thinks over EVERYTHING that has unfolded in the movie..she realizes that everything was for her...and that he really did come back for her and was so brave this time because he was protecting the one he cares for most.

and that hit her hard

its only then that jack truly "gains the rewards that follow" its too bad he's dead though lmao

yes i agree lovelyone... i think, in her heart of hearts, Liz was expecting another miraculous escape from the infamous Captain Jack Sparrow. I think she was expecting him to pop onto the longboat as the kraken took down the ship, and row them to shore, where they could all joke about it.

i think she was in a state of shock watching that boat go down, knowing he was still on it... knowing she had done that... still tasting him in her mind... knowing what could have been and the horror that her legend was gone. ya know?

even if she was still in denial about her true feelings for him, subconcsiously she knew... and she would be going through the grief stages and all--- shock, denial... all that.

then as they arrive at Tia's--- which Liz has never been to, BTW, she's never met Tia, doesn't know who she is or what she's capable of... and Liz is going, what am I going to do now?

According to the 5 stages of grief, she should be approaching acceptance any time now. At last, Liz will consciously realize she loves Jack.

yes she realizes everything about Jack actually having deep feelings for her inside that hut..


apparently when Gibbs says "he has that honest streak in him..had us fooled right to the end" she squirms in her seat and cries a fresh batch of tears..because she is realizing that Jack actually cares alot for ..and he had her "fooled right till the end"..which is in tia's hut..she thought it was only lust IMO when it came to what Jack thought of her...until she has time to think about the fact that Jack was going to die on the pearl for her whilst she escaped..which is something jack would have NEVER done had he not been caring about someones safety so much to do it..and she realizes that person was in fact her because he she was the only one with him to make him feel like that.Jack doesnt do things likt that for friends..he does it for people he loves.so yeah feeling guilty Liz? you just betrayed someone who cares so very much for you. She thinks she just totally stabbed him through the heart.

(although Jack thinks differently after her reaction to the kiss lol)

gonna try explain this again cuz I dont think I'm explaining it too well

the main reason I dont see the ending as Liz finnaly being tempted to do the selfish pirate betrayal is because she has already done it..3 times in the past ..and she has been perfectly fine about it..

I just dont see it..and the only thing we do see that is tempting her throughout the entire move are Jack's darn lips ..so thats why IMO the ending was only about her giving into the temptation of tasting Jack to see what he's like..because its the only true thing the movie suggests she is tempted to do..she's already embraced her pirate side a LONG time ago..She knows it and Jack knows because he was one of the ones she betrayed before lol..the audience should know this too..she's not being tempted to betray Jack in that last scene at all..she's gonna do it anyway bcause its in her nature to do it..she's just gonna see what he tastes like before she does..because its what she was so tempted to do through out the movie..and she was goign to see if she liked it or not.she does like it but its STILL not enough foe her to unchain him..I think she knows she wants this man in her life..but she doesnt think that he wants her in his life..till much later..when it hits her

When she usually betrays(leaves to die) are people she shows no remorse for because that person isn't someone who loves her or anything..so she finds it easier to hurt them..

So she suddenly realizes at the end that Jack really does care for her and ona very deep leverl..and THEN we see her uncharacteristically show remorse and guilt after a betrayal

ok again what miss lovelyone is trying to say

Jacks smile was not of that of betrayel it was the pleassure he got from seeing liz so mesmorized at that kiss.

The satisfaction that jacks get is from liz frustration that shes like "oh damn this man tastes so good-i want more but i cant"

JOHNNY'S SMILE IS BEYOND SSEXXI!!!!!!

Originally posted by LovelyOne

And then look at Liz's reaction LOL..she realizes he was right about her..she would want to taste him one day..and when she did..she would LOVE it..her face says all "no i don't!" and Jack actually looks as if he is about to laugh at the denial..and his face says "yes you do!" and then she leaves

that is soooooooooo true so hilariouse!!!!!!

^^^ yea its like when he said "pirate" he meant like "u finally came over to my side and u are my pirate"

and liz at the end when she turns around and leaves shes like "no i cant be ur pirate!! im the lil eunichs pathetic houewife"

"In the curiosity scene IMO, Jack is basically telling Liz that one day she wont be able to resist coming over to HIS side..to be with him..and she will act on selfish impulse..one day she wont be able to resist him as in she wont be able to resist tasting him..to see what HE'S LIKE" - LovelyONE

Everytime he says "You won't be able to resist." I always expect the word "me" at the end of the statement. I'd like to think it's implied - haha

^^^ so true lol the one thing i get frustrated in potc is that its hard to annilyze as what they mean. and u have to see the movie like 983987 times to understand!!

The best way, though, is to look at it the simplest way possible. Try to think about what the point is of every scene. Okay, why are we here? What is being said? Who is listening? I think sometimes we overcomplicate this movie and look for double meanings in every scene and overanalyze. Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar.

i'm loving this theory, LovelyOne!!

I agree with everything everyone is saying, and to me its all true!

The way i read that scene was jack realising elizabeth was his equal, and that made the attraction stronger for him.

In movies, there are telltale signs that the writers think are subtle (when they seem to smack-bang me in the face because i'm a romance fanatic so i can see it a MILE off!!!) and therefore they think that the audience won't notice if they slip something in;

E.G - ive just seen 'talladaga(spelling??) nights: the ballad of ricky bobby' , and the romance the main character had at the end of this film is one i saw coming all along...because they subtley involve each character and think they can SURPRISE the audience....

Point is (yup im gettin there lol) that the characters that usually end up 'together' are the ones that understand eachother emotionally... they 'get' eachother in a way that no one else can....

And also, as a romance fanatic i could see jack/liz from the beginning of POTC1 because;

1. its forbidden
2. its tough love
3. they wind eachother up to the point where they have to walk away or release the sexual tension!
4. they understand eachother...they are on the same level.

ive said before that the 'peas in a pod' scene was deleted because if it was kept in then the focus of the realtionship in 1 would have been taken away from will/liz....and the writers KNEW this (which is kinda interesting if you think about it...the may have been thinking "Ah yes....thats an interesting relationship forming there....but lets leave that until we get a sequel"

and then in 2 the 'we are alike...i and you...you and i ...us' was basically the 'peas in a pod' line re-written because the writers decided that they DID need the line back because the relationship DID need to become recognised (like it wasn't already lol) and these two characters DID know more about eachother than anyone else did...because they are essentially the same person.

long post, your VERY patient if you got to the end of it !!!

^^^^^exactly^^^^^

and by the way im used to reading alot so dont worry t.maria lol

the deleted scenes in movie 1 were added in movie 2 but changed the lines a bit but still holding on to the same meaning-what they were trying to say like ''you and i are alike, i and u, us.." is the same as''peas in the pod''but only the words has changed. but it still trying to say the sme thing. t.maria is right

and probably just proabbly maybe in some deleted scenes in dmc in the dvd will probably be added AWE..maybe!!

again it was to risky for jacks character to be like that with liz-to form what was a romance when the concentration here was will and liz in the first movie.

they wanted to put the character for jack as a flirtatious character in the first movie. but cut some of the parts that were very much intimate between liz and jack since it wouldnt make much sense if jack arrived and steal the girl already..though if i was liz id wont even give a second thought lol.

hopefully they will add some more scenes deleted in the first to the 3rd. maybe this time jack gets to say ''peas in a pod''!!!!

http://img218.imageshack.us/img218/1463/colinzl0.jpg

Originally posted by Chiki Mina


it was to risky for jacks character to be like that with liz-to form what was a romance when the concentration here was will and liz in the first movie.

they wanted to put the character for jack as a flirtatious character in the first movie. but cut some of the parts that were very much intimate between liz and jack since it wouldnt make much sense if jack arrived and steal the girl already..though if i was liz id wont even give a second thought lol.



i agree completely as usual!!

ive had to re-write all of this essay off the top of my head now because my comp f***ed up on me and deleted the whole thing before i posted it!!!!!

basically what i was going to say was that the writers did the right thing in deleting the scenes for jack/liz because if they didnt then the audience would have felt cheated if the jack/liz thing did not get resolved properlyin movie 1....

BUT the writers are clever, and they obviously thought that if there was a sequal planned then they would have to use something different as levreage to sell it....

SO...the 'island' scene was their leverage....they gave the audience the 'what if' and left them wondering exactly that...

but that gave way nicely for the sequel because jack/liz became the writers leverage in the 2nd film.

And the island scene in 1 was enough for the audience not to go "WTF?! why are they flirting?! thats all a bit sudden! they didnt even like eachother in 1!"

so the audience accept the jack/liz thing in 2 because the seed was planted in the first film....

therefore, why plant a seed if you dont want it to grow?

the writers are using cryptic ways of MAKING the audience accept the couple, and they're doing it subtly. they WANT you to be confused...almost as confused as elizabeth is at the end of the film.

But now elizabeth is stuck with a choice, and the way the writers have written it has made the audience realise that its a HARD choice, because they've accepted she has something for both jack AND will...

But i have always said that the reason the audience love the jack/liz thing is because it is the AUDIENCES love story...

we werent spoon fed it from the beginning like will/liz...

but we've SEEN their relationship unfold throughout the two films...seen them interact...seen them aggrivate eachother....but we've also seen them realise that they aint so different from eachother afterall.

And THIS is the TRUE love story that the writer are using (CRYPTICALLY) ....because its the one that the audience have shared along with the characters....

and as they say in the shop world....the customer is always right

Originally posted by T.Maria
i agree completely as usual!!

ive had to re-write all of this essay off the top of my head now because my comp f***ed up on me and deleted the whole thing before i posted it!!!!!

basically what i was going to say was that the writers did the right thing in deleting the scenes for jack/liz because if they didnt then the audience would have felt cheated if the jack/liz thing did not get resolved properlyin movie 1....

BUT the writers are clever, and they obviously thought that if there was a sequal planned then they would have to use something different as levreage to sell it....

SO...the 'island' scene was their leverage....they gave the audience the 'what if' and left them wondering exactly that...

but that gave way nicely for the sequel because jack/liz became the writers leverage in the 2nd film.

And the island scene in 1 was enough for the audience not to go "WTF?! why are they flirting?! thats all a bit sudden! they didnt even like eachother in 1!"

so the audience accept the jack/liz thing in 2 because the seed was planted in the first film....

therefore, why plant a seed if you dont want it to grow?

the writers are using cryptic ways of MAKING the audience accept the couple, and they're doing it subtly. they WANT you to be confused...almost as confused as elizabeth is at the end of the film.

But now elizabeth is stuck with a choice, and the way the writers have written it has made the audience realise that its a HARD choice, because they've accepted she has something for both jack AND will...

But i have always said that the reason the audience love the jack/liz thing is because it is the AUDIENCES love story...

we werent spoon fed it from the beginning like will/liz...

but we've SEEN their relationship unfold throughout the two films...seen them interact...seen them aggrivate eachother....but we've also seen them realise that they aint so different from eachother afterall.

And THIS is the TRUE love story that the writer are using (CRYPTICALLY) ....because its the one that the audience have shared along with the characters....

and as they say in the shop world....the customer is always right

omg so true

the island scene gave u an idea of the what if. but weretn sure if it was possible or not. i thought it was possible BUT it wouldnt make much sense now would it. then it will leave Wills charater like nothing..so inordero to make to make the liz/jack relationship work is by giving will a distraction. something that he wanted so much ever since he was a kid-to meet his daddy.

so Will wont necessary will be ''alone'' he will have support of his father.and it wouldnt hurt jacks character nor liz.

Originally posted by Chiki Mina
omg so true

the island scene gave u an idea of the what if. but weretn sure if it was possible or not. i thought it was possible BUT it wouldnt make much sense now would it. then it will leave Wills charater like nothing..so inordero to make to make the liz/jack relationship work is by giving will a distraction. something that he wanted so much ever since he was a kid-to meet his daddy.

so Will wont necessary will be ''alone'' he will have support of his father.and it wouldnt hurt jacks character nor liz.


correct!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

see when you think about it, the jack/liz things makes sense enough to realise that it WILL happen...because the writers have so subtly put things into the movies to make the audience warm to the idea, and then WHEN it happens it won't seem to far fethed and "wtf?!"

and plus, making jack the HERO of the second film has won the hearts of everyone who has watched the film....

And because (IMO) the movies is about ELIZABETH and her adventures...she needs a HERO...somone to save her time and time again...someone who is her equal (the mask of zorro characters were equals werent they?) and someone who she admires for both the MAN inside and the rogue outside....

and all of this points to jack.
Especially the gun scene when she is looking up at him. He is HER HERO...in that moment, he is everything she needs...and the way she clings to her leg deffinately epitomises this.

^^ yea jack doesnt have to be the main hero of the film!! i think the most important thing is to be liz's hero!! he wants to save her he cares about her!!

But if you htink baout it, Jack really is the hero in the story....He does nothing wrong! he has saved peoples lives...thats enoguh to be a hero if you ask me.....and if he does do somehitng wrong...he always does somehting to cover that up and make everything better! he is jsut awesome!

yea i agree!! jack makes mistakes bc no hero is perfect but then makes up for it. U really can trust him, hes not bad, its just the way he is-u have to really know him. but he wouldnt let u down.

yeah like Liz has said...he is a good man. and we all know it. So he basically is the hero

and now mr turner will cross to the dark side lol dum dum duuummm

lol yeah he will and i htink we will all like him better because it shows he can change...but he still wont be as GREAT as Jack

nooopppe. I think what Will will try to do is become a baddy on purpose so he could impress liz. since he thinks jack is a bad person and he sees that liz loves him that way..well hes gonna be bad so liz could love Will again.

what will doesnt understand is that by being a pirate doesnt mean that ur a bad person. besides jack has changed in a posittive way and liz got a chance to see that and fell in love. will is just too harheaded just bc hes a pirate.

hahaha yeah i htink ur right actually....he Will make the most stupid move of his life y trying to be a bad boy just for Liz, cuz it wont work...and i kinda feel bad cuz he will be turning bad for no reason.....but then again at least he wont be boring....but no matter what he does Liz will have Jack she wont want Willl because he has become the bad boy she has always wanted because she also wnats someone who is able to love her and be a good guy once in awhile...jsut like what Jack is

exactly. likes hes trying to be a jack lol.

which he'll never b!

will doesnt HAVE to be jack to be cool. the awesomeness of those two is the fact that they are DIFFERENT. ya know?

if will were more like Jack, that would be super boring.

and we know Will is given to acts of desperation as well (i think him saving Jack at the end of 1 was in part his decision to turn pirate if he couldnt have elizabeth)

when Will starts exploring the darker sides of himself, i dont think it will be at all like Jack. Jack is rogueish and sneaky but still rather silly. I think Will's dark side will be darker... sadder... perhaps more dangerous.

yeah i agree....


i htink when Will becomes darker and sadder he will be more likeable somehow...because he is showing a different side to himself

If only pirates of the caribbean were secretly a romance novel, cause then Liz would DEFINATELY end up with Jack... hehehe.

On wikipedia, it comments that Liz MIGHT have chained Jack up to suppress her growing romantic attraction to him.

It also comments that Jack is seriously attempting to woo Elizabeth, rather than just vainly flirting with her.

Wikipedia confirms that Will ends the movie thinking Elizabeth loves Jack, but his motive for suggesting going to bring Jack back are just about getting the Pearl back... to save his dad.

Wikipedia is great, but it really emphasizes the triangle, not one couple over the other. It doesn't reveal anything, but definitely makes both Will/Liz and Jack/Liz shippers happy the way it words things. I like that it includes all sides. It presents the facts and speculates, but doesn't lead you to believe a certain thing.

curiosity of tasting Jack

and

embracing her pirate side even more

Perhaps it was a bit of both in that last scene that made Jack smile. It seems as if Jack actually loves it when she shows she is willing to do what ever it takes (peas in a pod scene) .which would make him smile..the betrayal thing is old news now though when it comes to Elizabeth lol..that was just a little bonus for Jack on top of the huge new realisation for him and the audience "Elizabeth gave in and kissed him(like he said she would)..and she loved it, she wants him badly".that is the only really new revelation in the movie with her character..if the temptation she gave into was the betrayal then it would feel a bit "been there, done that - ish" nah LOL the temptation she gave into by the end of the movie was seeing what Jack tasted like..

Originally posted by LovelyOne


if the temptation she gave into was the betrayal then it would feel a bit "been there, done that - ish" nah LOL the temptation she gave into by the end of the movie was seeing what Jack tasted like..

your completely right!!

and the thing that sweetens the deal for me on this theory is that fact that it is ELIZABETH that states;


"You're going to want to know what it tastes like..

when BOTH characters MAY have been referring not only to EACHOTHER, but THEMSELVES too, during the 'curiosity' scene..

im kind of some what exciting of this dark side of Will lol it might be kinky

oh yeah i could see that... like Will gets super aggressive, and one time he and liz are fighting and he just grabs her and kisses her or something... that would be hott.

i cant wait to see Will get interesting...

omg yes!!! or what if like when jack and iz are arguing or something!! jack will press her to the wall and kiss her roughly meanwhile ill magically appear in fornt of will so he would think im liz and he could kiss me passionitely in his eveil-dark side way lool

ive just had an epiphone...

in the beach scene where will returns, thats the ONLY kiss will/liz have right??

notice the camera shot;

NO CLOSEUP

The kiss with liz/jack ..notice the camera shots;

MAJOR CLOSEUP!


therefore...if the return kiss with will was the 'be alll and end all' of their relationship, then they would have focused on it a little more.

Whereas they did ALL KINDS of closeups with jack/liz, because thats where the money shot is!

camera angles are important because they can convey all different types of emotions and hidden meanings...like the other post that LovelyOne started with those shot-by-shot frames of jack...behind elizabeth and you could clearly see him...,

its all telltale signs. !!

As much as it would be nice to see will become hott and stuff...he just isnt the kind of character that i enjoy watching on the screen...

dont get me wrong i love orlando and will IS a good character...but atm to me hes not multi-functional (unlike jack and liz who seemed to have gone on this journey throughout movie 2) ... but you never know, maybe he will be in 3!

heres hoping!!!

lol thats true and notice thats the only kiss they ever do

and that kiss liz made it to show off as in "look at us were a HAPPY COUPLE" did u noticed norries expression??

he was like "pu-leeze ur so full of it liz" lol

OOOOOOOOOO thats a VERY GOOD POINT!!~!! i love that. its so true. its beautiful.


its always SOOOOO painful when Liz and Will kiss, and Jack looks so hurt and jealous.... awe.... JACK!

i knooowww

i think for vengeance he'll try to flirt with the wenches whenever liz sees jack

since liz played so much with jacks feelings-denying all the time that she loves him

i actually feel sorry for liz...poor idiot

i dont feel sorry for Liz at this point. i know she is going through a lot and life is complicated and she's just trying to do her best... but...

she's messing with people's feelings... Jack's and Will's mostly. thats not cool.

can anyone remember what the music playing in the background of that kiss was????

Was it a 'happy' background or a 'sad' background???
lol

If i remember correctly on the jack/liz kiss the music goes up slightly when she kisses him...tho the music is slightly mysterious because -(well...we all know what happens when she kisses him lol)


and after watching the clip of the kiss again;

ELIZABETH WINCES when she shackles him...theres a moment when she can FEEL it...its like shes in pain....

and she says "its the only way...dont you see?"

Thats almost like shes trying to make HERSELF see that she had a reason for doing it, whilst at the same time she was trying to make HIM see her reason also...

but it could be tied in with the theory that she is admitting she has feelings towards him, and that the only way to rid these feelings is to be rid of the temptation...and the only way to do it is to make him disappear...hence;

"This is the only way, dont you see?"

Not that I've been turned around into a Will/Liz shipper, but what is so wrong with the kiss they share? She looks thrilled to see him, runs and puts her arms around him, and stays in his hold. He's not the overbearing ******* we make him out to be saying, "Why are you wearing boy clothes?" He's thrilled to see her and pulls her in for a kiss. It's a little awkward looking, but have you ever ran up and kissed someone? They usually aren't well planned kisses and they look sloppy. Plus, Jack and Norrie are looking at them very critically and you can always tell when someone's watching you. Come to think of it, they've never shared a private kiss when no one else was around. That sucks.
So I don't see what's so wrong and fake about this kiss.

i know liz was happy to see will that hes safe. but i think she was more reliefed other than happy that he was back. bc she was having such feelings for jack and she was just ****ed inside-especially about the compass and the curiosity scene.

she was like oh good Will is here i can finally get out this urge that im feeling.

i think that kiss was like a mix of many things
a) she cares about him
b) reliefed that hes there so she could try to forget about jack
c) that kiss to me it seemed as in a way to try to get out the urge from kissing jack-since jack didnt get to kiss her in the curiosity scene
d) showing jack that she really belongs to will and showing off norrie that she only thinks of will not of jack.

But what tells you all of that? That's what I don't get. I mean, I can see how she might kiss him to prove to herself she still wants him, but what is telling everybody that? Their body language, the music?

Originally posted by willofthewisp
But what tells you all of that? That's what I don't get. I mean, I can see how she might kiss him to prove to herself she still wants him, but what is telling everybody that? Their body language, the music?


it just seems obvious cuz u could tell that she wanted more after it...she thought it would satisy her and let her move on but it didnt and you oculd see her go in for anothe rkiss and be like "o i want another one, o damn it didnt work, now i DEFINATLEY have to chain hijm up."

thank u CJL lol she thought that kiss ws gonna relieve her from the frustration of kissing jack that was part of it

yeah but it didnt really work ad she was pissed for that...thats why she was sulking at the end of the movie...nt because Jack was gone really ( i mean of course she was sad) buut the main reason i htink was cuz she was like "oh damn what did i do?! i kissed him and i want more! i want more of him!how did this happen?! i got rid of him! why?1 crap now im stuck with Will, now i feel like shit. why did i do taht to him? poor Will, when he find out he will be devestated." So she was partially sad because of his death but also thinking baoyt other what she had done wrong, you could tell she was thinking about what she was gona do

wow i just rambled on and on.,...sry lol

i knw u just never shut up LMAO!! JUST KIDDING!! oh come on CJL i was enjoying ur point!! and yes its true

she thought she was gonna get over it but the kiss played over and over in her head and impacted her heart. reallly backfired. she was crying bc she missed jack and was now forced to live a life with will a man who she dont love no more and a life withot jack, a man whom she loves

lol i know i need to hsut my mouth! but i dont wanna! lol

yeah all she thought was crap i killed the love of my life and now im forced to loive with this man ive known all my life but dont love and have betrayed! this really sucks , how can i live with myself! i miss Jack but i HAVE to love Will

Liz: omg i have to stay with the eunuch uhhhhg
Will: thinks **i wonder if jack is a good kisser?**

eeeeewwwwwwwww!!!!!!!!!!!! sicko!!!!

LMAO!!!!! yeah i bet Will would be thinking that! i sure as hell would! LOL

loool

I would wonder if he used the tongue lol

EEWWW! my stomach just literally lurched! shut up!

omg lol i dont know if he would do that considering his feeling anyway about kissing keira.

or maybe they did haha

i would use my tongue on him! i bet she did! and if she did then i bet he would! how could you resist! lol

i thought there was a post somewhere saying that johnny stated that kissing keira wasn't the hardest thing he had to do in the movie, and that by the end of it they were asking for more takes??

Im sure someone put up a post about it....
which is good news really because its nice to know that the couple you ship for are actually pretty comfortable with eachother in real life

But i think im among the people that believe that keira didn't 'beg' the director and writers for a kissing scene...at the end of the day if the writers did exactly what the actors wanted, the story would be all over the place

And plus...im sure her boyfriend (new fiancee?) wouldn't approve if she had done that anyway lol

But all in all ive never seen another film starring johnny and keira where they've had so much chemistry on screen...they seem to work very well together, which deffinately works in our favour

YES there was an interview in which Johnny states "I just kept calling, 'we need one more take'. This kiss was NOT the hardest thing I had to do in that movie."
and another interview where they both talked about the filming of the kiss scene, and how much fun it was to explore their characters with it... stuff like that.

um guys, they totally used tongue. you can see it. these are majorly open mouthed kisses going on here.

in interviews Keria is constantly making fun of the fact that her boyfriend gets super jealous because she is such a wild flirt. lol.

yeah I saw that interview too but it's so wierd that they say different thing in different interviews...I'm not sure if they used toungue cause I read alot about acting and I know that they can fake a frech kiss as easy as drinking grape juice for wine so you can never be sure unless you SEE the tongue sliding out or something like in "bedazzled" where you could SEE liz hurly's tongue....eeeeew ok i'm groosing myself out but I bet she tried to turn it into a full on french kiss lol it would be hot if it was cause we know that was for REAL

I'm not sure if there was any tongue kissing involved in that kiss...the angles of the camera, iMO, is not good enough to tell...anyways...about the beach scene...I think the biggest indication that this kiss with Will is "look Jack see..Will is the man I want, not you...see James you are wrong...I don't want Jack, I want Will"...is that look she gives after the kiss and she turns back to face Jack and Will...I think see is sincerely glad to see Will...but I think it's more like "oh I'm so glad you are back, because being this close to Jack has got me all confused, so now I can focus on us again"....

The look on Jack's face...it's a little jealous, but I think mainly he is looking around because he says "how did you get here"...he's afraid Davy Jones is somewhere near, cuz he knows Will has been with DAvy and he is wondering how he escaped...

In the end...the smile and "Pirate"...yes, IMO, definitely means he is looking at her like "i knew you would come over to my side...you acted on that selfish impulse...you wanted to know WHAT I TASTE like...you have feelings for me, I can see it in your eyes...but it's okay, luv, because I was willing to risk my life to save your's anyway, cuz I am a good man, I wanted to received the rewards and taste it...so go on, leave me here to die, go be with Will...but you'll never forget me, I'll be in your every waking thought, you'll wonder what it could have been like, I am in your blood now...so I have won, because I will forever be in your heart and your mind....goodbye, Lizzie"

OMG totally agree with you!

I also think he shows that look because Will is actually the problem in the way of him gaining the real chest/heart AND Liz who resembles the other chest/heart Jack is after according to Tia..and when Ragetti basically says she's the heart by doing that thump thump thing right in her face...that look is one of "oh god I dont want you here near the chest/Liz!"

She's also in his blood now..he's not really saying goodbye...he's all the more infatuated with her..he dies knowing that he wants this woman more than ever..on the sidenote to the final scrip it says So right now he doesn't know he's coming back but he dies knowing this woman is one that he wants so badly even though he knows that he basically has her..he finally decides that he wants to be tied down by her

he was going to stay and die.but she actually made him die happy lmao

The betrayal is actually old hat when it comes to Liz she's done it to him before and under the same kind of circumstances so I don't think the biggest surprise to him was the fact she gave into the temptation of being selfish....I think THAT was just a bonus to Jack because he LOVEs it when she does this to him in those kinds of situations..its the very reason he's infatuated with her at the end of PotC1 beginning of PotC2 (peas in a pod). Although because they didnt show you him being infatuated by her doing that in PotC1 they have to kinda hint that he loves it now...but we do learn that he is thinking of Liz because of that beach moment "why is the rum always gone"..and the fact he she's on his mind so much for betraying him like that..being the little pirate he knows she truly is in her heart.

The real new significant thing is the fact she gave into the temptation of kissing Jack like he said she would..which was the only real thing she showed any temptation towards doing through out most of the movie..Kissing Jack is also pretty selfish because she "with Will"....and all he has to do is look at her lips when she's considering kissing him (or hesitates kissing him) and she does it lmao...she looked at his lips and stopped in her tracks..looked at his eyes and he actually looked at her lips and this makes her kiss him..after she's chained him up..she's looking at them again but she wont kiss him until he actually looks at her lips again lol..she totally looks relieved that she is allowed to kiss him again by his reaction to her staring back at his lips..although she pulls away..and in a very painful way as if she is tearing herself away from the man she loves.

and since since WHEN does Will looking at Liz make Liz kiss him? NEVER he always does it to her and she ALWAYS looks slightly taken aback by it ..

"and since since WHEN does Will looking at Liz make Liz kiss him? NEVER he always does it to her and she ALWAYS looks slightly taken aback by it .."

To play devil's advocate. She looked like she really wanted a kiss from him when he's bandaging up her hand. Poor guy is trying to be sexy and yet keep it all together. I probably would have wanted to kiss him too, but then I would have gotten marooned with Jack and come to my senses.
Plus, Liz had had it rough. She just wanted someone around.

Yes, I am not a will/liz shipper by any means...but I do think there are moments where she shows she cares for Will..like that scene where he is bandaging his hand in POTC 1 - she definitely wants a kiss right there...remember at this point and time she's only been around Jack just that one time....where he rescues her...so even though she was infatuated with Jack in that scene...she doesn't really know him yet.
so, as far as she is concerned..it's all will at this point.

Another point: what is the deal with the kiss between Will and Liz in the second movie? Why does everyone think it looks so awkward? It's a spur of the moment kiss. I don't know if you all have done one of those, but I have, and half the fun is that it's not planned. You just run up and kiss them and it can look sloppy and awkward. Also, they're being watched, very critically, by Jack and Norrie. Even if you're madly in love, it's not the same to kiss in public as it is to be kissed in private.
And Liz runs to him, not the other way around, and she throws her arms around him. Not to say she and Will are a perfect match, but their kiss looks sweet, sincere, and mutual.

i dont think it looks akward! agree with you, thats how kisses like that hapen. I odnt think they had very much chemistry while kissing but it looked wuite natural to me.

Originally posted by willofthewisp
Another point: what is the deal with the kiss between Will and Liz in the second movie? Why does everyone think it looks so awkward? It's a spur of the moment kiss. I don't know if you all have done one of those, but I have, and half the fun is that it's not planned. You just run up and kiss them and it can look sloppy and awkward. Also, they're being watched, very critically, by Jack and Norrie. Even if you're madly in love, it's not the same to kiss in public as it is to be kissed in private.
And Liz runs to him, not the other way around, and she throws her arms around him. Not to say she and Will are a perfect match, but their kiss looks sweet, sincere, and mutual.


thank you for that!!!!!! i so agree. i never though Liz looked uncomfortable, and she doesnt pull away, IMO.

its definately more of a "hello" kiss than a "OMGSH i want you NOW kiss", ya know? Couples do hello kisses sometimes. its nice but not especially incredible to watch. Like, it doesnt match up to the other kiss in the film. But it doesnt need to... ya know? Thats not its purpose.

yeah...but i dont really htink it was necessary....


on second thought maybe it was necessary...
She doesnt kiss him when he leavesher in prison to go get Jack. But when Jack is there in front of her and she is realizeing her feelings for him, she wnats to prove herself wrong by saying oh there s the man i "love" i should go kiss him as a hello to prove taht i DONT love Jack....and if you kind of look at her she isnt very pleased with the way the kiss went.

Jack didnt look very pleased either, he looked kinda sad, i felt bad for him at that moment

it was necessary, IMO... Liz and Will were both reunited after experiencing considerable character growth and struggle (Will has been reunited with his father, Elizabeth has found herself attracted to Jack and explored her more piraty side)

This kiss at least shows that this individual character growth has not been enough to drive them apart, and AT THIS POINT, their ultimate goals are still towards each other.

And its interesting to note that Norrington gets to observe it, (after observing her flirt heavily with Jack) and Jack gets to obvserve it (after seeing how she would push boundaries with him and perhaps wasnt suited for Will). And both Jack and Norrington KNOW, at this point, something Will DOESNT know... that Elizabeth's compass is wavering.

Will is entirely unaware of that at this point. But Jack and Norri both know this.

I think I would feel uncomfortable kissing him if i were her. I mean after flriting like ive never flirted before with Jack and then going to kiss him, i would feel guilty. Id be ashamed. But Liz i dont think she realized that it was such a big problem becasue she didnt want to love Jack, she wanted to love Will but she couldnt do naything about that so she kept didnt htink kissing Will was a problem.

But she didnt realize that what she had done was hurting Jack inside. He knows how she feels but she is just too afraid to say anything, and it hurt him because instead of expressing her feelings for him she goes and kisses the man she doenst have any true feelings for

I think she DOES have true feelings for Will... but they may not be the same as the feelings developing for Jack.

At this point, pleasing Will is still higher on her priority list...because she would kiss Will in front of Jack, but wont flirt with Jack in front of Will (till the end of course ).

And her feelings are still totally in limbo. She DOES care for Will- a lot-- whether as a friend or fiance, they are close and they care about each other.

Her feelings for Jack are just different, IMO...

yea but what i meant by true feelings was love like the love she has for Jack. I know he will always have aplace in her heart, although Jack's place will always be bigger lol

and yes that is true she will kiss Will in fornt of Jack buut wont flirt with Jack in front of Will. Thats becasue she is with Will, they were about to get married. And it would just be disrespectful to flirt with Jack in front of Will. It would make her seem like a horrible person.




im starting to scare myself! I was writing a paper about POTC and i kept saying Liz' name was Elizabeth TURNER! how could i do that! ugh..

Scream! Get that out of your head, CaptainJack!

Not to be real nit-picky, but when has Liz had the opportunity to flirt with Jack in front of Will? The three of them are hardly ever all together and when they are, they're usually too busy fighting whoever's chasing them. And she's not going to flirt with Jack on the beach 1. because Will's there, but 2. She's mad at him! He just told her everything he said was a lie, which may or may not mean all his flirting with her.....at least in her mind. I wouldn't feel like flirting with someone who had just lied to me.

Well, in truth the only thing he lied about -was how Will ended up on the Flying Dutchman..he just said "that has nothing in the world whatsoever to do with me." which in fact, it had everything to do with him...

But he was telling the truth about the chest, the heart of Davy Jones and the compass....that was all true...so not everything he said was a lie.

I think she is really hurt by Jack's lies...because she has feelings for him, because she has unyieding faith in him...that's why she is so hurt by Jack's deception...otherwise, she wouldn't really care that much....

There isn't much opportunity to flirt with Jack in front of Will..they are all three hardly ever together...in fact, including POTC 1 - jack and LIz have more moments on screen together than Will and LIz....think about it....and Will and LIz hardly are ever alone in their scenes...the only one I can recall is the one when she shows him the medallion on the Interceptor in POTC 1....otherwise, someone else is always around..whereas, Liz and Jack have a quite a few moments alone together...and even when others are around it's like all they see is each other and no one else matters....Now, that's what I call chemistry...surely, ted, terry, gore, jerry and the rest of the gang see this too....and so do Liz/Will shippers if they would only let themselves really look at the movie and see what's there...

yes so true! the liz/will shippers have to see it! its so obvious! ted, terry, gore,and jerry must be giving Jack and Liz more screen time ALONE toegther on purpose! it must be important sumhow! dont ya think?! imean if they really wnated Will/ Liz together then they would have more scenes together when they are ALONE!

well, its clear that keira and johnny have more chemistry between the two of them than pretty much anyone EVER>... to NOT give them major screentime would be nuts--- because their scenes are the scenes that MAKE the film. all the action, creepy villians, special effects, etc, and pulled together by the incredible depth those two manage to pull into really goofy scenes. its amazing. its a work of art.

however, they cant always write the stories around the actors, ya know? it would be nice if they did... but they write the story first and the actors are meant to make that story come across.

which is actually a GOOD thing if you look at that... because these are 3 professional, talented actors (two of which have academy nominations) and so they will stick to the STORY as much as possible... meaning the depth between Jack and Lizzie MUST have been in the story to begin with... must have originated, at least in some degree, with the writers and director.

they knew what bloom and knightley's chemistry was like when they cast them... so if Liz and Will really ARE supposed to have smoldering chemistry, they would have cast different people, right? cause they dont try hard at ALL to make the liz/will chemistry come across... you know they could fake it if they really needed to... but i guess that is not one of their priorities....

LOL yeah thats kinda what i meant, i just didnt go into THAT much detail about it. I didnt mean that they wrote it just for the actors cuz of course they have the script before hand. But what i meant was that they had to have had the Jack Liz thing in mind while writing it...because the chracters work so great together, and they hired the two actors because they had excellent chemistry and orli and keira becasue their chemistry got you thinking oh yeah sure thier characters ar ein love, but then you think \but jack and liz are way better. they had those trhoughts while writing it because they probably wnated the whole opposites attract thing so they planned it so Jack and Lzi would end up together...they didnt need the actors to figure it out


wow i wrote alot...sry i ramble on and on,...most of it probably doesnt make sense lol

Sometimes, though, once they see the chemistry between two actors they will rewrite, reword, rearrange scripts to fit that chemistry. I think Ted, Terry, Gore and Jerry were floored when they saw the chemistry between Keira and Johnny on the big screen....and that's why they gave them more screen time together in 2....everyone is turned on by that kiss in the end it's sooo hot....

As for the deleted scenes in 1....they probably had no idea how the audience would react to outlandish Jack and Elizabeth sharing those moments together...but then when they saw the response....cuz people were like "these were some of the greatest moments and they deleted them!" then they were like...yeah, I guess we can take a risk with this pairing...and then of course, they had no idea how enduring Johnny/Jack was going to be to the audience. Everyone fell in love with him....so, now over $1 billion later....after the launch of DMC , they now must realize that that risk paid off....the audience has definitely accepted this pairing and is screaming for more...(unless you listen to KTTC) so....seems to me it would be wise to take that risky behavior to the next level...and having this great on-screen chemistry take AWE to even great heights...IMO

After rereading my post it sounds as if I'm talking about sex when I say risky behavior to the next level...Ireally just meant...admitting their attraction/love...more kiss scenes or intense moments.