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who wins ?

How long is the Doc's hair

spidey cut's his hair of then beats the shit out of him

I believe Samson wins he pretty agile and fast and he is stronger and I believe tougher.

Doc Samson ? Big, strong and not too clever (fighting wise) : just the way Spider-Man likes them

He is smart enough to beat Spider-Man

Doc wins he's smarter than you think.

Is Doc only 25 ton strength now? If he is then Spidey will win the majority. If Doc is 75 ton strength then.......I'm not sure. One good swat and Spidey may be KOed.

Originally posted by badabing
Is Doc only 25 ton strength now? If he is then Spidey will win the majority. If Doc is 75 ton strength then.......I'm not sure. One good swat and Spidey may be KOed.
Most of Spider-Man's enemies only need one good swat.

Samson isn't even as tough as Titania was during Secret Wars

Spider-Man wins. Doc's not much stronger than his usual villians and Spider-Man has the edge in speed, agilty, reflexes etc

Doc Samson eventually by wearing Spiderman down.

And being in the 25 ton class, according to what?

Spider-man tiring before Spider-man. Peter can go fighting at close to max for hours. Has Doc Sam ever shown that kind of durabilty?

Spidey can easily tag and tear Samsons hair out.

Originally posted by marvelprince
Spider-man tiring before Spider-man. Peter can go fighting at close to max for hours. Has Doc Sam ever shown that kind of durabilty?
Six straight hours with the Mindless Hulk would make it?

Doc Samson wins this fight with Spiderman with relative ease, really.

Originally posted by olympian
Six straight hours with the Mindless Hulk would make it?

Impressive. Spider-Man fought Morlun for 12 hrs straight. Morlun did end up kicking his ass rather badly but it was impressive nonetheless.

Samson is strong but other than that I don't see what else he brings to the table that can give him this fight

I can see a case of Spiderman wearing him down first by speedblitz (funny note, he does that regulary unlike Superman and WW ) but just like against other "uber" guys, tot tier or not, if they managed to tag him sooner or later, hes going down.

Samson brings more durability and strength. Considering that even if Spidey is better, he also brings good agility (he has dodged bullets and the like) that makes it thougher for Spiderman.

It's pretty clear that Doc Sampson is going to get the majority of wins.

Originally posted by marvelprince
Impressive. Spider-Man fought Morlun for 12 hrs straight. Morlun did end up kicking his ass rather badly but it was impressive nonetheless.

Samson is strong but other than that I don't see what else he brings to the table that can give him this fight

I agree. I see Spidey taking the majority here.

Originally posted by Metalmanx
I agree. I see Spidey taking the majority here.


Wrong

Originally posted by Soleran
Wrong

How so ? Samson (as stated) can be depowered ridiculously easy. An average human can tear there own hair out with enough force. A guy with class 15 strength and superhuman reflexes should be able to do it with ease.

Samson get's rendered an ordinary human...or low enough that Spidey can take his punches and then it's night-night for Doc.

Doc has taken shots from Hulk before, I don't think his durability sucks and I oubt Spiderman is going to be giving him a haircut before Doc smoosh's him.

Sampson pimp slaps Spiderman. Spiderman would have to cut his hair and thats just a pathetic excuse for a win. Also, Sampson isnt some ordinary idiotic bully. I'm pretty sure he'll be ready for somebody messing with his hair. Fighting for 6 or more straight hours against the Hulk and living through it should be a better feat than anything Spiderman has done on panel (including the Firelord crap).

This is another battle that should be a no contest, but people have to figure out some way for the underdog to win.

Originally posted by Soleran
Doc has taken shots from Hulk before, I don't think his durability sucks and I oubt Spiderman is going to be giving him a haircut before Doc smoosh's him.

This is Spider-Man, my friend. If it were say...the slow-ass Thing, then yea, I could see your point.

That sad, there's no way that Doc could really even touch Spidey if he didn't wanna be touched.

And it's quite easy for a class 20+ strength, super fast, super agile, etc., etc. to rip out some hair. It wouldn't even be hard for him to get to it.

Spidey for the win.

P.S.--Why Samson doesn't just wear a helmet is beyond me...

Originally posted by Soleran
Doc has taken shots from Hulk before, I don't think his durability sucks and I oubt Spiderman is going to be giving him a haircut before Doc smoosh's him.

Spideys agility and pre-cog give him the edge though. Plus He can get out of Samson's rage simply by crawling (Samson can only make a vertical leap of 177 m) then it's a simple case of Thwip, Snap,RRRRRRRRRRRIP and it's over.

Originally posted by tkitna
Sampson pimp slaps Spiderman. Spiderman would have to cut his hair and thats just a pathetic excuse for a win. Also, Sampson isnt some ordinary idiotic bully. I'm pretty sure he'll be ready for somebody messing with his hair. Fighting for 6 or more straight hours against the Hulk and living through it should be a better feat than anything Spiderman has done on panel (including the Firelord crap).

This is another battle that should be a no contest, but people have to figure out some way for the underdog to win.

Well if the underdog is constant beating opponnets who are much stronger than he is doesn't that say something? Maybe strength isn't anything afterall.

Plus everyone is keen to point out Doc Sampson has lasted long against the Hulk but I can think of at least 2 times where the Hulk almosted killed him (ironically one situation required Spider-Man's help)

Originally posted by marvelprince
Well if the underdog is constant beating opponnets who are much stronger than he is doesn't that say something? Maybe strength isn't anything afterall.

Plus everyone is keen to point out Doc Sampson has lasted long against the Hulk but I can think of at least 2 times where the Hulk almosted killed him (ironically one situation required Spider-Man's help)

Indeed , plus the Samson supporters overlook his basic and (rather ridiculous) weakness.

http://www.marveldirectory.com/individuals/d/docsamson.htm
http://www.marveldatabase.com/wiki/index.php/Doc_Samson
http://spider-bob.com/heroes/marvel/DocSamson.htm

Originally posted by Soleran
Doc has taken shots from Hulk before, I don't think his durability sucks and I oubt Spiderman is going to be giving him a haircut before Doc smoosh's him.
It seems everybody has taken shots from Hulk, so that's an invalid point.

Doc is very durable, but he is no Hulk. Spider-Man definitely has the raw power needed to damage Doc Samson. But Samson is not fast enough to catch up with Spider-Man.

Speedblitz + web = defeated Doc Samson.

You know what I don't understand, why would Samson EVER cut his hair voluntarily?! That seems like the STUPIDEST thing he could ever do. It's like the very definition of CIS(or at least a prime example). If I were Samson, my hair would be down to my ankles at least.

Originally posted by grey fox
How so ? Samson (as stated) can be depowered ridiculously easy. An average human can tear there own hair out with enough force. A guy with class 15 strength and superhuman reflexes should be able to do it with ease.

Samson get's rendered an ordinary human...or low enough that Spidey can take his punches and then it's night-night for Doc.

Originally posted by Kid Kurdy
It seems everybody has taken shots from Hulk, so that's an invalid point.


Wrong, the statement still holds validity its just your point sucks.

You have to do better than Doc Samson has taken shots from the Hulk, because that doesn't impress me.

Spider-Man has beat up Firelord, IM 2020, the Hulk (yes the Hulk), Titania, Rhino and so on... all characters who could give Doc Samson a serious run for his money.

So tell me again, why would Samson be an exception ? In most fights, Spider-Man holds his own against the Hulk (for a good while) - mostly because Hulk can not catch him. So how would a watered down version of the Hulk do against Spider-Man ?

Spider-Man 8/10.

Originally posted by Kid Kurdy
You have to do better than Doc Samson has taken shots from the Hulk, because that doesn't impress me.

Spider-Man has beat up Firelord, IM 2020, the Hulk (yes the Hulk), Titania, Rhino and so on... all characters who could give Doc Samson a serious run for his money.

So tell me again, why would Samson be an exception ? In most fights, Spider-Man holds his own against the Hulk (for a good while) - mostly because Hulk can not catch him. So how would a watered down version of the Hulk do against Spider-Man ?

Spider-Man 8/10.

Exactly. I don't see how the reasoning that "he's taken on the Hulk" equate to a win here. Spider-Man has beat the Hulk and has also beat others who've fought the Hulk. Doc just lacks what it takes

Originally posted by olympian
Doc Samson eventually by wearing Spiderman down.

And being in the 25 ton class, according to what? Marvel.com says he can lift 25 tons and it even stated it in a comic that he can lift 25 tons. Take your pick. Bio or comic.

Originally posted by darthgoober
You know what I don't understand, why would Samson EVER cut his hair voluntarily?! That seems like the STUPIDEST thing he could ever do. It's like the very definition of CIS(or at least a prime example). If I were Samson, my hair would be down to my ankles at least.
the reason for that is the longer his hair gets the more aggressive he gets until atleast he's like a hairy version of the hulk so he trys to keep it at a balanced length giving him power yet restraint.

ok on to my humble oppinion of the fight it goes down like this a back and forth battle between the 2 people are right when they say samson is like most of the other bricks spidy takes down in all but 1 area he's mentally stable he's not really arrogent or blinded by rage and only relaying on force like say hyde for example (god that was funn how spidy owned his ass) anyway what' i'm saying is he wont be too quick to fall for any of spidy's setups and would do well countering some of them, however ultamatly i see spiderman doing what he does best a speed blitz backed up by the spider-sense would keep peter just out of the good doctor's hands untill he goes sleepy bye yup i can imagen doc samsons thought bubble right now ......"Spider-man keeps pelting me with blows, bouncing around like a human pinball, what's going on here i keep swinging for him but he keeps avoiding me, it's almost like he KNOWS when i'm reaching for him. I... I can't keep this up he's wearing me down".......or something to that effect

Spidey's new artificial leg thingies were pokng holes in the Titanium Man... that's pretty impressive.... they could go straight through the eyes of a guy like Samson... or the Thing ....

he really should have 4 of them

Originally posted by lando005
he really should have 4 of them

That's exactly what I was thinking.... Tony Stark - Uber genius.... but doesn't realise a spider has 8 legs... or can't count to 4

Originally posted by Scoobless
That's exactly what I was thinking.... Tony Stark - Uber genius.... but doesn't realise a spider has 8 legs... or can't count to 4


you know he did it because he doesnt really care about him

Maybe he just likes pulling the legs off of spiders

Or he didn't count the arms...

Doc samson laughes spiderman into orbit. The end.

Originally posted by Tha C-Master
Or he didn't count the arms...

I think it's a case of prosthesis envy .....

Originally posted by rotiart
Doc samson laughes spiderman into orbit. The end.

If this takes place after Spider-Man mops the floor of his room with Samson's hair then sure

Spidey beating Samson?

Wolverine beating Galactus?

Batman with 3 minutes prep beating God?

(I think i'm getting the jest of these forums)

Originally posted by tkitna
Spidey beating Samson?

Wolverine beating Galactus?

Batman with 3 minutes prep beating God?

(I think i'm getting the jest of these forums)

Honestly, I don't see why Spidey defeating Samson would be such a giant unfathomable feat.

I think it'd be quite easy for Spidey to take him down.

Originally posted by Metalmanx
Honestly, I don't see why Spidey defeating Samson would be such a giant unfathomable feat.

I think it'd be quite easy for Spidey to take him down.

I need to know how and please dont say Spidey is carrying his barber shears with him either. We have a class 15 character battling a class 70 or more character. I dont see the logic here. Ok, Spidey is a lot faster. So what. What is Spiderman going to do to Samson that is actually going to take him down. Eventually, Samson will get ahold of Spiderman and in any realistic fashion, should be ripping limbs off of him.

Originally posted by tkitna
I need to know how and please dont say Spidey is carrying his barber shears with him either. We have a class 15 character battling a class 70 or more character. I dont see the logic here. Ok, Spidey is a lot faster. So what. What is Spiderman going to do to Samson that is actually going to take him down. Eventually, Samson will get ahold of Spiderman and in any realistic fashion, should be ripping limbs off of him.

Spidey is now around class 20+ actually, thanks to recent physical upgrades.

And I've been told by pretty much everyone on here that Doc is only class 25. And really, to be honest, it wouldn't matter if Samson was a class 70 opponent. Spidey's taken down far stronger opponents before.

Rhino. Laugh all you want. He's a class 75-80 character and insanely durable.

Morlun.

Hulk.

And that's just off the top of my head.

Spidey for the win.

Edit: Oh yea. And unless Samson's hair is Kryptonian in nature, Spidey has far more than enough strength to rip it out of his head.

When did Leonard get so weak?

Is this the durable Rhino that your talking about?

http://img386.imageshack.us/img386/8016/rhino22dt.jpg

http://img281.imageshack.us/img281/8629/rhino31qe.jpg

Also, when has Spiderman ever beaten the Hulk? I need a scan of this biggest PIS in the history of comics.

Originally posted by tkitna
When did Leonard get so weak?

Is this the durable Rhino that your talking about?

http://img386.imageshack.us/img386/8016/rhino22dt.jpg

Not to burst your bubble, but Spidey could do the same thing to Rhino. Rhino only weighs 710 lbs. That's light as a feather compared to what Spidey can lift. If he grabbed his leg like that, he could easily reproduce what Samson did.

Rhino's powers:
The Rhino has superhuman strength enabling him to lift approximately 80 tons under optimal conditions. He also possesses superhuman speed (capable of running at nearly 100 mph), endurance, and a high degree of imperviousness to physical harm even without Rhino suit. The suit boosts his strength, features a bulletproof polymer mat rhino-like hide and two horns capable of penetrating 2-inch plate steel. It is highly impervious to damage, able to resist explosions equivalent to 1 ton of TNT, the impact of small anti-tank weaponry, and temperature extremes between -50˚ and 1,000˚ F without cracking or melting. It is acid resistant and removeable.

If Rhino weren't such a dumbass, he could kick Samson's ass.

And Spidey would be strong enough to lodge Rhino into a solid rock wall? I dont think so. If Spidey could do that, dont you think he would have done it one of the first 90 times they fought?

Doc and Rhino fought again too and the results were the same although the Rhino had a better showing.

Also, if writers wrote comics the way they should, Rhino should be kicking Spidermans ass 9/10 too.

Originally posted by tkitna
And Spidey would be strong enough to lodge Rhino into a solid rock wall? I dont think so. If Spidey could do that, dont you think he would have done it one of the first 90 times they fought?

Doc and Rhino fought again too and the results were the same although the Rhino had a better showing.

Also, if writers wrote comics the way they should, Rhino should be kicking Spidermans ass 9/10 too.

No. The comics are written correctly. What you want is a complete reality-change. You want Rhino to be smarter. That would be a different character altogether. Rhino is properly written as being dumb with vast superhuman strength and durability. He's a tank, pure and simple. Spidey has been beating Tanks since he was 15.

And yes, Spidey is easily strong enough to lodge Rhino into a solid rock wall. Why hasn't he done it? Well then Samson would've looked like quite the copycat now, wouldn't he?

Originally posted by Metalmanx
No. The comics are written correctly. What you want is a complete reality-change. You want Rhino to be smarter. That would be a different character altogether.

No, I want Spiderman to be treated as his stats indicate. A 15 ton superhero hitting or trying to beat-up an 80 ton hero or villian is ridiculous. This would be the same comparison as my 8 year old daughter hitting me and actually taking me down. I dont care if my daughter had the speed of the Flash and landed 1,000 punches in such amount of time,,,,i'd still be sitting in my chair with a pepsi watching TV. Pretty much the same as the Rhino and Samson if Spiderman ever took to the offensive. Thats what I mean about a correctly written comic.

Originally posted by tkitna
No, I want Spiderman to be treated as his stats indicate. A 15 ton superhero hitting or trying to beat-up an 80 ton hero or villian is ridiculous. This would be the same comparison as my 8 year old daughter hitting me and actually taking me down. I dont care if my daughter had the speed of the Flash and landed 1,000 punched in such amount of time,,,,i'd still be sitting in my chair with a pepsi watching TV. Pretty much the same as the Rhino and Samson if Spiderman ever took to the offensive. Thats what I mean about a correctly written comic.

Then either you know nothing of physics (comic-wise or actual), or you want a really boring comic book.

The Flash can hit harder than Superman. Now tell me, is Flash stronger than Superman physically? No. And yet the Flash can hit harder than Superman.

Spidey's ability to chip away at a stronger opponent's defense has been one of his greatest skills since he was first introduced.

If your eight-year-old daughter gained the powers of the Flash and decided to punch you using her new-found super speed, whatever she hit would be destroyed. One punch would do it.

And Spider-Man's a bit stronger nowadays. Around the class 20+ range.

Spidey aint no Flash though. Nobody can tell me his speed is great enough for his punches to be the equivalent of a hero in the range of the Hulk, Thing, Thor, or Samson for that matter. Also, what happens when he does hit one of those characters with punches like that? He'd be walking around with two casts on his arms.

This is silly. Spiderman (ala Wolverine) sells comics and thats why he has feats that are so out of his league. He should never be able to beat Samson or any other high tier hero or villan for that matter.

Originally posted by tkitna
Spidey aint no Flash though.

Ah, good one there. He can be taught!

You're right. He's not. But he might as well be compared to Doc. Or Rhino for that matter. Spidey has every advantage here except for strength and durability.

And, well, we've seen how well he handles people stronger and more durable than him.

P.S.--He beats them!

Originally posted by tkitna
No, I want Spiderman to be treated as his stats indicate. A 15 ton superhero hitting or trying to beat-up an 80 ton hero or villian is ridiculous. This would be the same comparison as my 8 year old daughter hitting me and actually taking me down. I dont care if my daughter had the speed of the Flash and landed 1,000 punches in such amount of time,,,,i'd still be sitting in my chair with a pepsi watching TV. Pretty much the same as the Rhino and Samson if Spiderman ever took to the offensive. Thats what I mean about a correctly written comic.

Wow. So I guess in the great scheme of things strength really does matter.

Well if your daughter had the speed of Flash plus the strength to press 20+ tons and all she needed was to yank out your hair then I'm gonna go with the little girl for the win.

Basically your point is that practically every Spider-Man comic printed since his inception is wrong cause most of his villians are much stronger than he is. Venom, Carnage, Rhino, Scorpion, Green Goblin...you get my drift. Guess we've all been lead astray for the past 40 years

Originally posted by tkitna
No, I want Spiderman to be treated as his stats indicate. A 15 ton superhero hitting or trying to beat-up an 80 ton hero or villian is ridiculous. This would be the same comparison as my 8 year old daughter hitting me and actually taking me down. I dont care if my daughter had the speed of the Flash and landed 1,000 punches in such amount of time,,,,i'd still be sitting in my chair with a pepsi watching TV. Pretty much the same as the Rhino and Samson if Spiderman ever took to the offensive. Thats what I mean about a correctly written comic. You obviously don't understand the simple concept that the faster something moves, the more momentum it carries.

Originally posted by Tha C-Master
You obviously don't understand the simple concept that the faster something moves, the more momentum it carries.

Think we need to give a physics lesson

Not in a comics debate forum we don't

Originally posted by Soleran
Not in a comics debate forum we don't

Go and troll the GTF Soleran.

Originally posted by tkitna
This is silly. Spiderman (ala Wolverine) sells comics and thats why he has feats that are so out of his league. He should never be able to beat Samson or any other high tier hero or villan for that matter.
That's not true.

Doc Samson is very durable, but not as durable as let's say Hulk, who has been hurt by Spider-Man on more than one occasion. Spider-Man will not hold back in this fight - why would he ? - and please believe me, a speedblitzing Spider-Man has a good chance of beating Doc Samson.

Don't forget his webs by the way. You have to be class 100 (more or less of course) before you can easily break them. Last time I checked, Samson wasn't class 100, correct me if I'm mistaken.

Spider-Man 8/10.

Replace Firelord with Doc Samson...

Originally posted by grey fox
Go and troll the GTF Soleran.


It's GDF, fyi.

Samson has a legitimate shot at winning some of the fights against Spiderman.

Also you don't have to be class 100 to rip Spiderman's webbing with relative ease.

Originally posted by Soleran
It's GDF, fyi.

Samson has a legitimate shot at winning some of the fights against Spiderman.

Also you don't have to be class 100 to rip Spiderman's webbing with relative ease.

Meh , ether way stop Trolling here and do it somewhere else.

I understand Samson has a legitimate shot , he has a 3.7/10 of winning.

Replace a very angry Hulk with Doc Samson.

And yeah, in the end, Hulk was about to kill Spider-Man, but this was a pre-upgraded Spider-Man against a very angry Hulk - this is only a small part of the battle, and he did very well.

Doc has a chance. Just a pretty small one.

Part 2

Originally posted by marvelprince
Doc has a chance. Just a pretty small one. Originally posted by grey fox


I understand Samson has a legitimate shot , he has a 3.7/10 of winning.

I'm not knocking Spidermans speed, he has blitzed Hulk, Firelord, Absorbing Man etc etc...........

Doc has taken shots from Hulk as well he'll still garner a few wins!

Originally posted by Soleran
I'm not knocking Spidermans speed, he has blitzed Hulk, Firelord, Absorbing Man etc etc...........

Doc has taken shots from Hulk as well he'll still garner a few wins!
A few wins... I can live with that.

Spiderman should beat the tar out of Doc Samson most of the time.
He's beaten the tar out of people a lot stronger and more durable
than Doc so many times and twice on Sundays after church
with Aunt May in her finest dress.

Originally posted by tkitna
No, I want Spiderman to be treated as his stats indicate. A 15 ton superhero hitting or trying to beat-up an 80 ton hero or villian is ridiculous. This would be the same comparison as my 8 year old daughter hitting me and actually taking me down. I dont care if my daughter had the speed of the Flash and landed 1,000 punches in such amount of time,,,,i'd still be sitting in my chair with a pepsi watching TV. Pretty much the same as the Rhino and Samson if Spiderman ever took to the offensive. Thats what I mean about a correctly written comic.

I dare you to let your 8 your old daughter (or any 8 year old) hit you as hard as they can in the face 1,000 times..... your face would be so f*cked up afterwards... I'd pay to see that happen

Originally posted by Scoobless
I dare you to let your 8 your old daughter (or any 8 year old) hit you as hard as they can in the face 1,000 times..... your face would be so f*cked up afterwards... I'd pay to see that happen


EXACTLY!!!
One hit isn't bad, but as they keep coming it hurts more and more.
Add the frustration of not being able to hit or dodge Spidey.
Add the constant trash-talking and jokes.
Add the webbings to the face, legs, etc.
Add some more hails of fists and kicks you can't dodge.

these ingredients are what makes a fine
upside-down flint-rubble bubble Spider beat down!

served for your pleasure since 1963.

Originally posted by tkitna
Spidey aint no Flash though. Nobody can tell me his speed is great enough for his punches to be the equivalent of a hero in the range of the Hulk, Thing, Thor, or Samson for that matter. Also, what happens when he does hit one of those characters with punches like that? He'd be walking around with two casts on his arms.

This is silly. Spiderman (ala Wolverine) sells comics and thats why he has feats that are so out of his league. He should never be able to beat Samson or any other high tier hero or villan for that matter.
your oppinion sounds really biased, spiderman hase beaten bricks all throughout his career, it's his ability to take on and win against stronger opponets that makes him well liked, the main way he beat's people like rhino is through his speed and reflexes even if he is the weaker one still remember that he IS super strong he can speed blitz people like rhino and samson all day he's strong enough to be effective against them and enough blows over a short period of time like that would take down just about anybody on marvel earth, it's been down too many times to doubt from hyde to firelord speed agility strenght and the spidersense makes a deadly combo, almost anybody caught like that will be worn down and taken out, but not only that he can get creatve with it too, kinda like the first time he beat hyde he put him throgh several walls hyde didnt even touch him

Hey the very comic that coined the PIS phrase. Thats about as poorly written as it gets. Firelord is a cosmic being that should be laughing at Spidey. Good lord.
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=7412970

Thats also a nice two page scan of Spiderman and the Hulk. One question, does the Hulk look the least bit hurt to you? Yeah, me neither.

My point here is, Spiderman might be fast enough to hit a character like the Hulk 50 or so times before the Hulk gets a shot in, but what effect does this have on Spiderman? What effect would it have on any of us if we punched a brick wall 50 times? Last I checked, Spiderman has no speed force that protects him when he supposedly speedblitzes somebody. In all honesty, Spiderman is the one that should be hurting after he threw the 50 punches. What does the world of physics have to say about that.

Also, i'm pretty sure that a character that is capable of feats like this can also snap Spidermans webbing. (sorry about the size of the picture)

http://img385.imageshack.us/img385/5472/spidey25ik.jpg

have you ever been in a fight where your just constantly hitting your opponet? do you feel the pain then? do you stop yes he would be feeling it but it wont be enough to break him and it's not like he's just gonna stop, also he would break his hand if he hits his targets wrong so form does have something to do with it, also the whole firelord thing i'm well aware that spidy was cleary outmatched here but the thing is i dont belive the fans really understand what the writers were getting at with that story, firelord could fight spidy 99 more times right now and curbstomp him all over the cosmos but the thing is for all the times he can there's still that one off fluke win that spidy has for that one moment in time spiderman was able to do the impssible we all know that it will never happen again but just that one time he made the impossible possible

stop looking at the fight as just strength vs strenght

Strength has to account for something, but obviously not in this debate. I understand that Spiderman is fast and he would dance around people and punch them millions of times for the win even though he shouldnt be able to harm these characters, but I understand now.

Spiderman, Batman, and Wolverine are the most powerful characters ever created and nobody short of God himself (maybe not even him) can take them. I finally see how pointless it is to debate against them.

Batman and Wolverine, yes. But Spiderman really is a different matter. His degree of versatility helps him greatly.

if this was superman or juggernaut then you would have a point but this is doc samson his durability isnt so hight that spiderman cant harm him

and if you think batman is that tought wait till ya see the thread i got him in

Originally posted by tkitna
Hey the very comic that coined the PIS phrase. Thats about as poorly written as it gets. Firelord is a cosmic being that should be laughing at Spidey. Good lord.
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=7412970

Thats also a nice two page scan of Spiderman and the Hulk. One question, does the Hulk look the least bit hurt to you? Yeah, me neither.

My point here is, Spiderman might be fast enough to hit a character like the Hulk 50 or so times before the Hulk gets a shot in, but what effect does this have on Spiderman? What effect would it have on any of us if we punched a brick wall 50 times? Last I checked, Spiderman has no speed force that protects him when he supposedly speedblitzes somebody. In all honesty, Spiderman is the one that should be hurting after he threw the 50 punches. What does the world of physics have to say about that.

Hulk looked hurt to me.

Spider-Man's denser than normal muscle tissue protect him from such damage. Nice try though. Besides, the good Doctor is not as durable or strong as the Hulk anyway. Check out this nice little match where Spider-man had to help Doc Samson against a super angry Hulk. Thought it was ironic all thing considered

http://img213.imageshack.us/my.php?image=hulkvsspidey1my9.gif

http://img206.imageshack.us/my.php?image=hulkvsspidey2wl7.gif

http://img213.imageshack.us/my.php?image=hulkvsspidey3cv3.gif

http://img213.imageshack.us/my.php?image=hulkvsspidey4gp4.gif

http://img216.imageshack.us/my.php?image=hulkvsspidey5we3.gif

http://img228.imageshack.us/my.php?image=hulkvsspidey6kq2.gif

http://img212.imageshack.us/my.php?image=hulkvsspidey7yw6.gif

http://img219.imageshack.us/my.php?image=hulkvsspidey8al9.gif

http://img219.imageshack.us/my.php?image=hulkvsspidey9qh2.gif

http://img205.imageshack.us/my.php?image=hulkvsspidey10yo1.gif

http://img205.imageshack.us/my.php?image=hulkvsspidey11wa7.gif

Imo, an impressive showing for both characters. Hulk couldn't even touch Spider-man, Spider-Man was shown to have some effect on the Hulk. Doc Samson couldn't dodge the Hulk, but he landed some good shots. Shots which the Hulk shrug off, but still. If anyone wants I can post scans of Spider-Man beating the Hulk, in case someone dtill wants to argue Spider-Man's ability to hang with these guys.

P.S. Even suped-up Hulk took a little while to break from the webbing. And Doc Samson is nowhere that strong. Not to mention he can produce more of the web fluid now

Originally posted by tkitna
Strength has to account for something, but obviously not in this debate. I understand that Spiderman is fast and he would dance around people and punch them millions of times for the win even though he shouldnt be able to harm these characters, but I understand now.

Spiderman, Batman, and Wolverine are the most powerful characters ever created and nobody short of God himself (maybe not even him) can take them. I finally see how pointless it is to debate against them.

Talk about an exagerration. Spider-Man is fast enough to not be touched, strong enough to inflict pain and is tactically smarter not to mention Samson has an exploitable weakness. One good yank and Samson is nothing. I have yet to see someone address this. I don't see whats so hard about this to wrap around your mind. I guess since he fought the Hulk no one short of class 70 strength can beat him?

Wolverine has an unbreakble skeleton and Batman is a genuis. In some fights it helps them, in other it won't. Point is you obviously feel that cause they're the most popular they get special treatment. Thats true a lot of time but I can tell you thats not the case here. Spider-Man is my fav hero but I have no problem admitting when he's in over your head.

To you an old analogy, if your 8 yr old daughter is fighting you with the speed of Flash, what happens if when you blink she shaves your head thereby reducing your strength to that of an infant. Still think you can take her?

Not once in the scans with Spiderman, Hulk, and Samson did Spiderman hurt the Hulk. There wasnt even a bubble with an ouch, ungh, or huff in it when Spiderman hit him. By the looks of those scans, the one character that needed the real help was Spiderman or he was going to die, and that was without the Hulk directly touching Spiderman.

The hair cutting has been mentioned many times in this thread.

I'd also love to see the PIS scans of Spiderman taking down the Hulk. While we're at it, here's another scan of the hulk going down.
http://img431.imageshack.us/img431/2932/samsonhulk314b8pm.jpg
http://img431.imageshack.us/img431/496/samsonhulk314c1yr.jpg

Wow, Samson broke his hand! Thank goodness things like that dont happen to Spiderman.

Nice use of sarcasm to prove a point. But Spider-Man has broken bones and passed out trying to do a lot of stuff like that so your point comes across as rather pathetic.

I didn't see Hulk say "Ouch" to any of the Doc's blows either, yet its obvious they were doing something. Or were they?

The hair thing was mentioned but never answered. Please, just tell me how Doc Samson gets past that

Originally posted by Metalmanx
No. The comics are written correctly. What you want is a complete reality-change. You want Rhino to be smarter. That would be a different character altogether. Rhino is properly written as being dumb with vast superhuman strength and durability. He's a tank, pure and simple. Spidey has been beating Tanks since he was 15.

And yes, Spidey is easily strong enough to lodge Rhino into a solid rock wall. Why hasn't he done it? Well then Samson would've looked like quite the copycat now, wouldn't he?


Your either one of the worst logicians here or a severe spidey hater.

First of all, if writers wrote spidey correctly then he should never get hit.
He has dodged bullets, lightning, and even lasers (speed of light)that was homed (yes homed!) to him a billion times. In over all abilities, spidey is superior to most.
Spiderman fights villians even more powerful than Sampson like a dayjob. Explain what Sampson has that these villians don't.
And to say that spiderman isn't strong enough to lodge Rhino's head in rock is one of stupidess things I have ever heard. What have you been smoking? And thus with that, you were only implying that sampson is stronger. Duh! Of course he is stronger. No one is arguing this.

So you 3 have responses to make:

1. Explain what Samspon has that his other villians don't. And don't say smarts since some of his villians are equally smart and smartness itself doesn't make one able to keep up or see with a fired bullet.
2. How in God's green Earth is Samspon going to hit spidey (If written correctly).
3. How is Spidey not going to tear his hair when spidey is mega times faster and it takes less than .1 of a second to go "snap". Even though spidey doesn't need to do this.

Originally posted by marvelprince
P.S. Even suped-up Hulk took a little while to break from the webbing. And Doc Samson is nowhere that strong. Not to mention he can produce more of the web fluid now

Yeah, the Hulk took all of two or three seconds to break free of two entire web cartridges. Your right, it probably would have taken Samson 10 seconds or so to break free.

People who are support sampson are very unreasonable.
They imply that more strength wins every time.
They imply that spidey just sits there and let sampson hit him or tear his limbs apart.
They use arguments and scans showing sampson is stronger when no one is arguing this. Thus "the stronger always wins" fallacy.

Give me spiderman's powers and I will beat the living crap out of sampson in a matter of a few seconds. Has anyone heard of the "MAXIMUM SPIDER".

Originally posted by marvelprince
Nice use of sarcasm to prove a point. But Spider-Man has broken bones and passed out trying to do a lot of stuff like that so your point comes across as rather pathetic.

How is it pathetic? I agree Spidey is durable, but nothing like the durability of Samson and Spiderman has supposedly taken down the Hulk (still interested in those scans). I'm just looking at the comparisons here.



Well, the Hulk did get busted into a building by Samson, but to be honest with you, no, I dont believe the hulk was being to bothered by either of them.



A hair net?

Originally posted by h1a8
1. Explain what Samspon has that his other villians don't. And don't say smarts since some of his villians are equally smart and smartness itself doesn't make one able to keep up or see with a fired bullet.

Samson probably doesnt have any more or any less than any of the villians your talking about. He shouldnt need it. Also, Samson doesnt need to keep up or see fired bullets,,,,they cant harm him. thats my point.



The Hulk didnt hit Spiderman either in the scans posted above, but yet Spiderman was on the ground and ready to die in a matter of seconds until Samson saved him. i imagine Samson could operate in that same fashion.



I admit that Spiderman can cut his hair, but I cant or wont admit that he doesnt need to.

Ok, i'll quit (although i'm still looking forward to the Hulk beatdown by Spiderman scans) and will admit that if Spiderman cuts Samsons hair, he would win, but if not, he should lose in my opinion.

Its the same instance as Doc Ock slashing The Hulk up and nearly beating him to death, but yet when Peter David read that he got pissed and straightened that out pronto. Mr. Fixit (gray, weaker Hulk) beat Doc Ock in like two panels and thats how I see it also. Same with Samson and Spiderman. Its just my opinion.

When Spider-Man was on the ground, it was because of the Hulks very powerful thunderclap. Can Samson do exactly the same ? I really doubt it.

And when Samson beat Hulk (and broke his hand), he was fighting a weakened Hulk - Banner was fighting inside Hulk to make him weaker, Hulk was not even fighting back, he was just standing there, thinking that Samson was an illusion.

Originally posted by tkitna
Samson probably doesnt have any more or any less than any of the villians your talking about. He shouldnt need it. Also, Samson doesnt need to keep up or see fired bullets,,,,they cant harm him. thats my point.



My point was that, no amount of smarts sampson can have in order to see spiderman clearly. That means he won't be able to hit spidey no matter how smart he is (due to spidey's speed and sense). That also means he can't prevent spidey from hitting him no matter how smart he is.


This is because Hulk used his famous thunderclap and didn't actually physically hit him (Even though that would be PIS if he did). Sampson will need to be at least class 100 to perform an effective thunderclap against spidey.



I don't see why you can't admit that he doesn't need to. Spidey will see Sampson moving in super slow motion (though Spidey don't even need to see him since his sense will easily guide him out of the way).

Spidey simply cannot be hit by sampson and sampson cannot stop spidey from doing the "Maximum Spider" super combo finish on him. Nuff said!

Originally posted by tkitna
How is it pathetic? I agree Spidey is durable, but nothing like the durability of Samson and Spiderman has supposedly taken down the Hulk (still interested in those scans). I'm just looking at the comparisons here.

No one is agruning Samson's durability and strength. Everyone here admits Samson has the ups on those two. But thats it. Spider-Man has everything else going for him in spades.

I'm at work now so those scan's will have to wait till I get back home. They are forthcoming though

Originally posted by tkitna
Well, the Hulk did get busted into a building by Samson, but to be honest with you, no, I dont believe the hulk was being to bothered by either of them.

Thats right. Lets not forget to mention that the Hulk in the fight with Spidey and Samson was stronger than normal but the one in the pic you put up was weaker than normal. Just something to think about

Originally posted by tkitna
A hair net?

I wonder if a gamma fortifying shampoo would work to strengthen his follicles. lol

Spiderman wins. All Samson has is super strength and durability, im sure the Doc is smart but so is Spiderman. Spiderman has that as well as super speed, webbing and stealth mode.

Spiderman 10/10

i dont see why it's soo hard to admit that spider-man can beat samson, im not even saying samson wont put up a good fight, but in the end spiderman as the more versital character should win out 9/10

Hi new poster here :

Doc Samson is traditionally listed as strong as a calm hulk. Which is about the 80-85 ton range. He did for a while had a weakness against having his hair cut, and yet in various pictures his hair is MUCH shorter (especially in his red costume). Gamma empowerment tends to incorporate subconscious tendencies, desires or fears into the form taken. Doctor Leonard Samson is jewish, and one would think therefore VERY aware of his namesake. Again, citing the occasions where he's had his hair shorter, this factor no longer seems an issue with regards to his strength.

That was point 1. About the hair yanking strategem.

Point 2 : 'Doc couldn't touch him'. MarvelPrince posted (and thank you) the following image : hulkvsspidey8al9.gif ... Hulk struck the ground and the shockwave/shrapnel from the hit knocked Spidey silly. Doc's not strong enough to do this? I think he is. While not quite class 100, he can certainly manage a ground strike. And Doc is smart enough to do this, whereas the Hulk probably just pounded the ground out of anger or frustration.

I love Spidey and I like Doc. But Doc COULD beat Spidey if he resorted to a series of ground strikes. Not sure if he could do the hulk sonic hand clap, but that would also be effective. Spidey doesn't wear ear plugs, as far as I know, though he could surely web some up.

On the other hand, Spidey might just keep webbing Doc's eyes and mouth repeatedly and keep punching him. He might be strong enough to pull the webbing off, but off his EYELIDS?? ouch!

I'd give it about a 50/50. Depends how quickly and IF Doc thought to do ground strikes.

Originally posted by malhavok
Hi new poster here :

Doc Samson is traditionally listed as strong as a calm hulk. Which is about the 80-85 ton range. He did for a while had a weakness against having his hair cut, and yet in various pictures his hair is MUCH shorter (especially in his red costume). Gamma empowerment tends to incorporate subconscious tendencies, desires or fears into the form taken. Doctor Leonard Samson is jewish, and one would think therefore VERY aware of his namesake. Again, citing the occasions where he's had his hair shorter, this factor no longer seems an issue with regards to his strength.

That was point 1. About the hair yanking strategem.

Point 2 : 'Doc couldn't touch him'. MarvelPrince posted (and thank you) the following image : hulkvsspidey8al9.gif ... Hulk struck the ground and the shockwave/shrapnel from the hit knocked Spidey silly. Doc's not strong enough to do this? I think he is. While not quite class 100, he can certainly manage a ground strike. And Doc is smart enough to do this, whereas the Hulk probably just pounded the ground out of anger or frustration.

I love Spidey and I like Doc. But Doc COULD beat Spidey if he resorted to a series of ground strikes. Not sure if he could do the hulk sonic hand clap, but that would also be effective. Spidey doesn't wear ear plugs, as far as I know, though he could surely web some up.

On the other hand, Spidey might just keep webbing Doc's eyes and mouth repeatedly and keep punching him. He might be strong enough to pull the webbing off, but off his EYELIDS?? ouch!

I'd give it about a 50/50. Depends how quickly and IF Doc thought to do ground strikes.

It's about time we get some new, logical posters with well-thought debates. Kudos, my friend. And welcome.

You can teach a lot of these people here. Hell, you can teach a lot of the senior posters some things about debating.

Originally posted by malhavok
Hi new poster here :

Doc Samson is traditionally listed as strong as a calm hulk. Which is about the 80-85 ton range. He did for a while had a weakness against having his hair cut, and yet in various pictures his hair is MUCH shorter (especially in his red costume). Gamma empowerment tends to incorporate subconscious tendencies, desires or fears into the form taken. Doctor Leonard Samson is jewish, and one would think therefore VERY aware of his namesake. Again, citing the occasions where he's had his hair shorter, this factor no longer seems an issue with regards to his strength.

That was point 1. About the hair yanking strategem.

Point 2 : 'Doc couldn't touch him'. MarvelPrince posted (and thank you) the following image : hulkvsspidey8al9.gif ... Hulk struck the ground and the shockwave/shrapnel from the hit knocked Spidey silly. Doc's not strong enough to do this? I think he is. While not quite class 100, he can certainly manage a ground strike. And Doc is smart enough to do this, whereas the Hulk probably just pounded the ground out of anger or frustration.

I love Spidey and I like Doc. But Doc COULD beat Spidey if he resorted to a series of ground strikes. Not sure if he could do the hulk sonic hand clap, but that would also be effective. Spidey doesn't wear ear plugs, as far as I know, though he could surely web some up.

On the other hand, Spidey might just keep webbing Doc's eyes and mouth repeatedly and keep punching him. He might be strong enough to pull the webbing off, but off his EYELIDS?? ouch!

I'd give it about a 50/50. Depends how quickly and IF Doc thought to do ground strikes.

You make good sense.
But i'm afraid that some unofficial sources have Doc Samson at about 70 tons strength (slightly below that of calm hulk which is 70tons and not 80-85 tons).
But the official sources, from the guys who write about Doc Samson, Marvel writers themselves, say that he can lift up to 25 tons. You wouldn't dare argue with them now would you?
With that said, Hulk's strength at that time he hit the ground was on a ridiculous level (way above 100 tons). I doubt seriously that samson can generate 1/100 of the force Hulk generated when he hit the ground (since he lacks the strength and his hand would probably hurt too much). Thus proving that tactic ineffective.

Originally posted by malhavok
Hi new poster here :

Doc Samson is traditionally listed as strong as a calm hulk. Which is about the 80-85 ton range. He did for a while had a weakness against having his hair cut, and yet in various pictures his hair is MUCH shorter (especially in his red costume). Gamma empowerment tends to incorporate subconscious tendencies, desires or fears into the form taken. Doctor Leonard Samson is jewish, and one would think therefore VERY aware of his namesake. Again, citing the occasions where he's had his hair shorter, this factor no longer seems an issue with regards to his strength.

That was point 1. About the hair yanking strategem.

Point 2 : 'Doc couldn't touch him'. MarvelPrince posted (and thank you) the following image : hulkvsspidey8al9.gif ... Hulk struck the ground and the shockwave/shrapnel from the hit knocked Spidey silly. Doc's not strong enough to do this? I think he is. While not quite class 100, he can certainly manage a ground strike. And Doc is smart enough to do this, whereas the Hulk probably just pounded the ground out of anger or frustration.

I love Spidey and I like Doc. But Doc COULD beat Spidey if he resorted to a series of ground strikes. Not sure if he could do the hulk sonic hand clap, but that would also be effective. Spidey doesn't wear ear plugs, as far as I know, though he could surely web some up.

On the other hand, Spidey might just keep webbing Doc's eyes and mouth repeatedly and keep punching him. He might be strong enough to pull the webbing off, but off his EYELIDS?? ouch!

I'd give it about a 50/50. Depends how quickly and IF Doc thought to do ground strikes.

Been a while since I've seen intelligent thought out posts like this. A few points though. Doc Samson did have short hair for a while but IIRC that was time when his body was further radiated. For all the appearances I've seen his strength still depended on his hair length. If this has been changed (I didn't read his last mini so it cut have been addressed there) then I'll retract my statement.

No prob with the images. About the feat remember that Hulk was far stronger than normal Hulk. He is definitely out of the good doctor's strength level. I doubt he could produce a wave of such intensity with his strength.

Ground strikes could work, but remember Spider-Man doesn't really stay on the ground. If Doc goes for ground strikes he'll adapt. Take to web swinging or even jumping and gliding with his new costume. I think his sonic, while weaker than Hulk's, would be an effective weapon. Effective long range. If Spider-Man is up close then Samson isn't gonna get a chance to pull back his hands for a clap.

Its not a curbstop but I think Spider-Man wins the majority here. Doc Samson really just has his strength and Spider-Man has bought down stronger

wolverine took out spider-man already and he did took down the hulk and hulk is stronger then samson so wolverine can beat them both

Originally posted by wolvertooth
wolverine took out spider-man already and he did took down the hulk and hulk is stronger then samson so wolverine can beat them both

When did Wolverine ever definitivly beat Spider-Man?

new avengers he owned spider-man

Originally posted by wolvertooth
new avengers he owned spider-man

Are you talking about that stab that was in ASM? And Wolverine didn't own him, he was getting the crud kicked outta him after he stabbed Parker untill Iron Man pulled him off, I wouldn't call that an ownage, especialy since wolverine shouldnt have even been able to pull out the webbing the way he was webbed.

Originally posted by wolvertooth
new avengers he owned spider-man

They have NEVER fought in New Avengers. Unless you mean in Marvel Knights where they were sparing and Logan stabbed him. While they were sparring. When they weren't really fighting. You get it. And after than Spider-Man kicked the crap out of Logan till Tony pulled him off.

Later though Spider-Man punches Logan through supposedly unbreakable glass out the Tower.

In Spider-Man vs Wolverine Peter is putting Logan's head through tombstones and sees a way to kill Logan but decides that he won't kill.

In Marvel Team Up Spider-Man simply webs him up in an alley with his fists to his head.

Pure and utter Spider-Ownagge

The Official Handbook of the Marvel Universe Deluxe Edition lists the calm hulk's strength at 70 tons. However, the OHOTMUDE update '89 clarifies the GRAY hulk's calm strength at 70 tons, and the GREEN hulk's calm strength at 85-90 tons. Now, the OHOTMUDE does list Doc Samson's strength at 25 tons, and doubtless what the writers are quoting. Though they certainly portray him as being much stronger. EARLIER editions DO list Doc as having a strength equal to a calm hulk. Formerly listed as 70 tons, though later clarified for the green hulk. But even the writers of the OHOTMUDE do not claim it's perfect, and made great efforts to clarify errors. A brilliant piece of work, and I am a huge fan. Another example of underestimation would probably go to Iron Man in the OHOTMUDE, in which his armor is said to ampify the wearer's strength by a factor of 90. IF Tony Stark could lift 300 pounds above his head, then the armor would give him a strength level about 13.5 tons without rerouting power. And I think it was more impressive than that. I tend to stick by the estimation of Doc having about a 70 ton strength, perhaps a bit more. He did steal his strength from the green hulk and not the gray. Someone with only a 25 ton strength wouldn't even cause the hulk to notice (without compensatory speed like spidey has). It'd be Rick Moranis vs Hulk Hogan (the other hulk). And Doc Samson definitely puts up a better fight than that ... though he ALWAYS loses in the end, barring the occassional sucker punch.

some very nice debats here...now then i think i can really get started with my argument, while doc samson physiclly is no diffrent from any other tanker spidy has taken down he has several strengths the others did not, for one he has no intent of murdering spidy and he is a WHOLE lot more mentally stable not to mention smart and able to think on his feet so spiderman would have a hard time out thinking him in a situation like this, spiderman fights in 3 diffrent ways either relying on his strenghts as the spider (his powers abilities and instints) the man (his street smarts and scientific knowlage) or the spider/man combo (self explanitory) useing any one of the 2 latter spidy wont win but using the fromer he can spiderman's versitlity makes him one of the hardest people to contend with in marvel

Originally posted by malhavok
The Official Handbook of the Marvel Universe Deluxe Edition lists the calm hulk's strength at 70 tons. However, the OHOTMUDE update '89 clarifies the GRAY hulk's calm strength at 70 tons, and the GREEN hulk's calm strength at 85-90 tons. Now, the OHOTMUDE does list Doc Samson's strength at 25 tons, and doubtless what the writers are quoting. Though they certainly portray him as being much stronger. EARLIER editions DO list Doc as having a strength equal to a calm hulk. Formerly listed as 70 tons, though later clarified for the green hulk. But even the writers of the OHOTMUDE do not claim it's perfect, and made great efforts to clarify errors. A brilliant piece of work, and I am a huge fan. Another example of underestimation would probably go to Iron Man in the OHOTMUDE, in which his armor is said to ampify the wearer's strength by a factor of 90. IF Tony Stark could lift 300 pounds above his head, then the armor would give him a strength level about 13.5 tons without rerouting power. And I think it was more impressive than that. I tend to stick by the estimation of Doc having about a 70 ton strength, perhaps a bit more. He did steal his strength from the green hulk and not the gray. Someone with only a 25 ton strength wouldn't even cause the hulk to notice (without compensatory speed like spidey has). It'd be Rick Moranis vs Hulk Hogan (the other hulk). And Doc Samson definitely puts up a better fight than that ... though he ALWAYS loses in the end, barring the occassional sucker punch.

Great stuff dude!
But there are some things you need to know (if you didn't realize already).
Many characters have went through upgrades and downgrades in powers and abilities over the years without explanation. This has been done seamlessly throughout their history in the comics. Many say that Marvel comics are in continuity. Well I disagree. Doc Samson is a perfectly good reason for this too. There has been characters in comics whose abilities contradicted other comics. That is why I went to Marvel.
If you go here and click on
1.10 How do you go about writing each profile? :
http://www.marvel.com/universe/ OHOTMU:FAQ#How_do_you_go_about_writing_each_profil
e.3F


then you can see how they go about updating each character.
I believe threaders should clarify which version (golden age, current, etc.) of a character (only the ones who have many contradictions in their abilities in comics) that the thread is about.

Also Force=mass x acceleration. That means Samson (with 25 ton strength)can punch with roughly the same speed as spidey (but with way more mass) since he can generate the necessary acceleration. Thus making his punch something for Hulk to notice. Even Cap has caused Hulk and other class 100 guys notice with his kicks (Not that it is realistic but just to be consistent for Doc Samson).

Lastly, if you read at the sight I gave you above then you will see that the writers of the official handbooks go through nearly the entire history of a character (without consulting the original writers) before stating their abilities (That is why Doc Samson was first listed as 70 tons). But if there are any discrepencies (or contradictory showings) with a character then the writers go to the original writers to settle the discrepencies. Thus that is why, currently, Doc Samson is listed as 25 tons even though he may have shown more strength at times in the past. Many of these discrepencies are due to the writer's faulty scientific reasoning. For example, the writer may not know that a particular feat in which they want to show the character doing will exceed that character's originally created (or defined) level of power because of scientific ignorance.

Originally posted by marvelprince
They have NEVER fought in New Avengers. Unless you mean in Marvel Knights where they were sparing and Logan stabbed him. While they were sparring. When they weren't really fighting. You get it. And after than Spider-Man kicked the crap out of Logan till Tony pulled him off.

Later though Spider-Man punches Logan through supposedly unbreakable glass out the Tower.

In Spider-Man vs Wolverine Peter is putting Logan's head through tombstones and sees a way to kill Logan but decides that he won't kill.

In Marvel Team Up Spider-Man simply webs him up in an alley with his fists to his head.

Pure and utter Spider-Ownagge

Originally posted by h1a8
Great stuff dude!
But there are some things you need to know (if you didn't realize already).
Many characters have went through upgrades and downgrades in powers and abilities over the years without explanation. This has been done seamlessly throughout their history in the comics. Many say that Marvel comics are in continuity. Well I disagree. Doc Samson is a perfectly good reason for this too. There has been characters in comics whose abilities contradicted other comics. That is why I went to Marvel.
If you go here and click on
1.10 How do you go about writing each profile? :
http://www.marvel.com/universe/ OHOTMU:FAQ#How_do_you_go_about_writing_each_profil
e.3F


then you can see how they go about updating each character.
I believe threaders should clarify which version (golden age, current, etc.) of a character (only the ones who have many contradictions in their abilities in comics) that the thread is about.

Also Force=mass x acceleration. That means Samson (with 25 ton strength)can punch with roughly the same speed as spidey (but with way more mass) since he can generate the necessary acceleration. Thus making his punch something for Hulk to notice. Even Cap has cause Hulk and other class 100 guys notice with his kicks (Not that it is realistic but just to be consistent for Doc Samson).

Lastly, if you read at the sight I gave you above then you will see that the writers of the official handbooks go through nearly the entire history of a character before stating their abilities (That is why Doc Samson was first listed as 70 tons). But if there are any discrepencies (or contradictory showings) with a character then the writers go to the original writers to settle the discrepencies. Thus that is why the current Doc Samson is listed as 25 tons even though he may have shown more strength at times in the past. Many of these discrepencies are due to the writer's faulty scientific reasoning.
wow very through i have no complaints

Excellent link and post. Very cool and well thought out. Though I still contend that in his appearances that Doc is 'portrayed' at the 70 ton range. Shehulk, who is listed as 75 tons can leap 1000 feet. Doc, who WAS listed at 70 tons was listed also in the OHOTMUDE as being able to leap 910 feet. Pretty comparable, I think. And why I'd rank him at 70 tons rather than 85-90 tons upon retrospection. Also anyone laying the smack down on Rhino so easily does NOT have a normal 25 ton strength.

Now, you may argue physics ... but physics has little to do with the powerhouses of the marvel universe or most universes. If so, the only way the powerhouses with dense flesh could hurt each other would be by grappling. The speed of the punch and their own body mass would be insufficient to hurt each other. The most they'd ever do would be to bounce off each other like croquet balls. If physics truly was a major factor, spidey could beat ANYONE. As his feet would stay matted to the ground and his punch would send anyone without a similar power flying. One must assume that the powerhouses in the marvel universe have some subconscious telekinesis or the like preventing them from making fools of themselves. (Pictures Rhino and Hulk crashing into each other, then bouncing about like a pinballs).

So, on the strength issue, I guess we'll have to agree to disagree.

But to get back to my original thought, ground strikes or sonic claps would probably be the only way to stop spidey. Smacking his fist into the concrete would probably work well, because the stone shard shrapnel would do serious damage to someone without dense flesh. (I've worked with a pick before on stone, and the flying stone chips are h*ll). Anyway, take care and thanks for the intelligent discussion and debate.

Originally posted by malhavok
Excellent link and post. Very cool and well thought out. Though I still contend that in his appearances that Doc is 'portrayed' at the 70 ton range. Shehulk, who is listed as 75 tons can leap 1000 feet. Doc, who WAS listed at 70 tons was listed also in the OHOTMUDE as being able to leap 910 feet. Pretty comparable, I think. And why I'd rank him at 70 tons rather than 85-90 tons upon retrospection. Also anyone laying the smack down on Rhino so easily does NOT have a normal 25 ton strength.

Now, you may argue physics ... but physics has little to do with the powerhouses of the marvel universe or most universes. If so, the only way the powerhouses with dense flesh could hurt each other would be by grappling. The speed of the punch and their own body mass would be insufficient to hurt each other. The most they'd ever do would be to bounce off each other like croquet balls. If physics truly was a major factor, spidey could beat ANYONE. As his feet would stay matted to the ground and his punch would send anyone without a similar power flying. One must assume that the powerhouses in the marvel universe have some subconscious telekinesis or the like preventing them from making fools of themselves. (Pictures Rhino and Hulk crashing into each other, then bouncing about like a pinballs).

So, on the strength issue, I guess we'll have to agree to disagree.

But to get back to my original thought, ground strikes or sonic claps would probably be the only way to stop spidey. Smacking his fist into the concrete would probably work well, because the stone shard shrapnel would do serious damage to someone without dense flesh. (I've worked with a pick before on stone, and the flying stone chips are h*ll). Anyway, take care and thanks for the intelligent discussion and debate.

Yes, a 25 ton strength foe can lack a smackdown on much stronger foes (such as Rhino). Cap, bats, and wolverine have been hurting very high class strength dudes for years with their kicks alone. From that simple fact, hitting power doesn't truly estimate over the head pressing power. Since those guys can't even generate more than 3 tons of force. Yet their strikes are quite effective.

It all depends on where a character strikes a foe anyway. In comics, for some reason, the head seems to be the most vulnerable spot in the whole body. Hulk, Thing, etc. has taken some pretty serious things before yet they have been knock out by foes with much lower strength than them.

I don't believe Samson was consistently shown to press overhead more than 25 tons (maybe not at all). But many has estimated his strength from the type of foes he has hurt and owned before.
This is faulty since many characters such as Luke Cage, Spiderman, Captain America, Batman, Wolverine, etc. has been hurting and knocking out much higher strength class foes for years in which they were no where near these foe's strength.

Durability and Strength are two different things (even though the more strength one has the more durability they need to support that strength)
It is faulty to assume that a class 75-100 being should automatically withstand (without sustaining any damage or being knocked out) physical strikes from much lower strength foes. Again, this has been shown countless times by many characters.

With 25 tons strength (I believe Marvel), there is no way samson can perform a decent enough thunderclap either a ground attack. With 70 tons strength (which I think is falsely estimated from comics), samson also isn't strong enough to produce a groundattack that is faster and powerful enough for spidey to avoid. Hulk's strength when he did it was at least over 1,000 tons (as he was more and more enraged in the battle). Spidey has super speed and spider sense (his greatest power). He has dodge bullets and lasers (speed of light) that was homed to him like a day job. He has leaped, horizontally, hundreds of feet in the air while twisting, turning, and contortioning his body to avoid bullets and other fast attacks many times.

With spiderman's abilities, I considered it PIS that he got hit by Hulk's ground attack. Especially since Hulk punches much faster and was at a closer range and spidey was still able to easily dodge. No way in the heck can samson hit spidey with a ground attack (Even though he is not strong enough to initiate a decent enough one). Spider will simply leap at Samson at super speed and "Maximum Spider" ultimate combo finish him while he attempts such an attack.

Lastly, with 25 ton strength, a thunderclap from samson isn't going to do anything. Samson has never used it in all of his history. I believe writers knew he wasn't strong enough to produce an effective thunderclap. That is probably why you never seen it from him. Also, since spidey is faster and is around 20ton strength then he should be able to duplicate a samson's non effective thunderclap too (since speed is needed more than strength anyway in a thunderclap).

i'm not sure about the t-clap but a ground stomp form samson would be of inefficant levels to effect spiderman he would most likely be airborne by that time ans using his spidersense to doge whatever comes his way, that ground pound from hulk had to have been very hight on the richter scale atleast 6.0 or more

Sorry for the lack of responses - have been away for a bit. I'm reconsidering my thought on 50/50. Remembering when Nightcrawler tossed Sebastian Shaw about in the air ... Spidey could easily do that to Doc. Have him up and off the ground, and spinning in the air like a top. I'd change my vote to spidey 9 out of 10 throws.

Spidey 10/10 on a bad day. 100/10 on a good day.

parker

Samson

Spidey now knows kung-fu and his spidey sense is a lot better. Doc goes down.

Samson easily.

Spider-Man. Doc Samson is just an average, one dimensional brick.

Spider-man would mollywhop Samson.