Click HERE to see this thread with all of the graphics, features, and links.

Can Ion put the Phoenix down for good?

Originally posted by sexyking
Can Ion put the Phoenix down for good?

What is Ion's greatest feat?

Originally posted by Mr Master
What is Ion's greatest feat? He has all the powers of Parallax.

Originally posted by Big Sexy
He has all the powers of Parallax.

Plus the starheart magic.

Another victory for Teh Ion

Originally posted by Mr Master
What is Ion's greatest feat?

ION respect thread.

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/f95/t421255.html

Ion is no joke.


Ion wins big time.

Originally posted by Mr Master
Ion is no joke.


Ion wins big time.
see Respect Teh Ion

Originally posted by juggernaut66666
see Respect Teh Ion

I did see the respect thread, there is to much for me to absorb right now.

But if he can rewrite a Universe, he's more powerful than the White Phoenix of the Crown.

It looks like the majority of people seem to think Ion.

If its normal Pheonix, Ion kills her in less than four pages, if its White crown Pheonix, he might just have some trouble, but with no PIS he will eventually win.

Ion would get annihilated by the Phoenix. Rewriting time is just a matter of altering the past. In New X-men 154 it wasnt Jeans altering of the past that was impressive its what she did before that. She casually amputated realitys future, putting it on its death bed with no real afterthought.

When told of the result of her actions Jean materialized this wounded reality into the white hot room, the hospital for universes. By doing this she demonstrated her ability to manipulate a reality sized amount of matter within the palm of her hand like it was nothing.

Chronal rewriting is nothing special it can be done by any half decent cosmic in the right place. Such abilities are nothing to one who has shown the ability to edit or even delete the timeline as so casually as opposed to just changing its events to initiate a rewrite.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Ion would get annihilated by the Phoenix. Rewriting time is just a matter of altering the past. In New X-men 154 it wasnt Jeans altering of the past that was impressive its what she did before that. She casually amputated realitys future, putting it on its death bed with no real afterthought.

When told of the result of her actions Jean materialized this wounded reality into the white hot room, the hospital for universes. By doing this she demonstrated her ability to manipulate a reality sized amount of matter within the palm of her hand like it was nothing.

Chronal rewriting is nothing special it can be done by any half decent cosmic in the right place. Such abilities are nothing to one who has shown the ability to edit or even delete the timeline as so casually as opposed to just changing its events to initiate a rewrite.
Ion has the power of Parallax which allows him to erase the and recreate the multiverse and all the timelines so bye bye Phoenix

Originally posted by juggernaut66666
Ion has the power of Parallax which allows him to erase the and recreate the multiverse and all the timelines so bye bye Phoenix

There was a big Parallax debate a few months ago which you obviously missed out on. Parallax deals with chronal energies, he is just rewriting reality by changing events. Thats really not that impressive in the scheme of things.

Phoenix however can and has completely amputated parts of the timeline and held it in her hand.

Its like the difference between one of us and a moderator. While we can edit our posts and make changes to them, mods can completely delete our posts rendering that ability non existent.

Phoenix isnt bound by time/space, therefore chronal manipulation isnt gonna do squat. She can cut and paste time even amputate and dispose of it. Ion just alters events to rewrite time.

Yeah Im sure that Phoenix would be able to battle the Spectre and the JLa while creating a Universe
Just answer me one question is Phoenix multiversal in power level????

Originally posted by juggernaut66666
Yeah Im sure that Phoenix would be able to battle the Spectre and the JLa while creating a Universe

Creating a universe? Nope. He was manipulating time to replay the creation event. Thats a big difference.

The Spectre stomped Parallax when he got involved what are you talking about? lol

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Creating a universe? Nope. He was manipulating time to replay the creation event. Thats a big difference.

The Spectre stomped Parallax when he got involved what are you talking about? lol
He was creating a universe read it again
Is phoenix multiversal at power level???

Chronal manipulation the energies Parallax used in Zero Hour for his feats the energies Ion made his own are only effective against beings bound to the timeline. Attacking through manipulation of chronal energies is irrelevant to someone who can just cut away time leaving nothing to be manipulated. Again its like one of us versus a mod.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Chronal manipulation the energies Parallax used in Zero Hour for his feats the energies Ion made his own are only effective against beings bound to the timeline. Attacking through manipulation of chronal energies is irrelevant to someone who can just cut away time leaving nothing to be manipulated. Again its like one of us versus a mod.
Ion can also exist out of reality
He can just take Phoenix out of reality and takes her powers away

Originally posted by juggernaut66666
He was creating a universe read it again
Is phoenix multiversal at power level???

He was creating his own universes via CHRONAL energies, he was manipulating time to replay the creation event and then by altering events along the way he wouldve tailored the new universe to his liking.

Hes manipulating that which is already there, hes editing that which is already there. Hes not creating anew with his power. Its all time manipulation.

Thats futile against one who can casually just cut and paste at time. One who isnt bound by time. Whats he gonna do?

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
He was creating his own universes via CHRONAL energies, he was manipulating time to replay the creation event and then by altering events along the way he wouldve tailored the new universe to his liking.

Hes manipulating that which is already there, hes editing that which is already there. Hes not creating anew with his power. Its all time manipulation.

Thats futile against one who can casually just cut and paste at time. One who isnt bound by time. Whats he gonna do?
Have you even read it ?????
He was re-creating it since before it he has destroyed all time
http://img468.imageshack.us/my.php?image=2ej9.jpg
http://img363.imageshack.us/my.php?image=3qi1.jpg

Originally posted by juggernaut66666
Ion can also exist out of reality

Ion may be able to take himself outside of reality but he is a being OF reality, he is bound by time and space. If Phoenix altered the past Ion would be affected. Jean is just just a form the Phoenix takes on, her being isnt dependent on time and space, she originates from the white hot room, alter time and space and Phoenix wouldnt be affected. Plus his chronal manipulation powers are only going to effect those who are bound by time.

Originally posted by juggernaut66666
Have you even read it ?????
He was re-creating it since before it he has destroyed all time
http://img468.imageshack.us/my.php?image=2ej9.jpg
http://img363.imageshack.us/my.php?image=3qi1.jpg

Originally posted by juggernaut66666
Have you even read it ?????
He was re-creating it since before it he has destroyed all time
http://img468.imageshack.us/my.php?image=2ej9.jpg
http://img363.imageshack.us/my.php?image=3qi1.jpg

He wiped out everything along the timeline by squeezing at both ends of the it whilst within that time axis place (cant remember its exact name lol). Yes i have read it. It was all CHRONAL manipulation. He's messing with time, hes altering events, thats all.

How abou Ion takes her powers away with energy manipulation?

Originally posted by juggernaut66666
How abou Ion takes her powers away with energy manipulation?

What makes you think he can do that? Aside from his time manipulation what energy and matter manipulation feat has Ion performed to make you think hes on that kind of level? I havent seen anything. Educate me.

You say that time maipulation won't help Ion what if he goes back in time and kils jean's parents before she even borns?

ion just kills white phoenix but ion dies if he is facing dark phoenix

thats a fact

Originally posted by juggernaut66666
You say that time maipulation won't help Ion what if he goes back in time and kils jean's parents before she even borns?

Jean is just a form taken on by the Phoenix. Think of her as an MBody. The Phoenix was manifesting as Jean in the previous multiverse as shown by the X-men Adventures series which are acknowledged in the handbooks.

Phoenix can just remanifest ready for battle or who's to say she will allow that to happen to her parents. Shes the physical form of a force beyond time and space and any attempt to attack her past could be defended anyway. Its an obvious ploy just think of how Akhenaten defeated Dooms time travelling attack in Marvel The End.

Originally posted by harri
thats a fact Weren't you banned? And if not, why haven't you been yet.

who me?

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Jean is just a form taken on by the Phoenix. Think of her as an MBody. The Phoenix was manifesting as Jean in the previous multiverse as shown by the X-men Adventures series which are acknowledged in the handbooks.

Phoenix can just remanifest read for battle or who's to say she will allow that to happen to her parents. Shes the physical form of a force beyond time and space and attempt to attack her past could be defended anyway. Its an obvious ploy just think of how Akhenaten defeated Dooms time travelling attack in Marvel The End.
This is Phoenix(Jean Grey) Vs Ion (kyle Rayner)
Not Phoenix Force Vs The OA central Battery

i have been banned and for a good reason so if your thinking of reporting me dont plz i have stopped

Originally posted by juggernaut66666
This is Phoenix(Jean Grey) Vs Ion (kyle Rayner)
Not Phoenix Force Vs The OA central Battery

Your smile is misplaced my friend. Jean is the Phoenix Force, literally. Shes a form the Phoenix manifests into reality as. Therefore my previous points are still valid. Please address them

And Kyle is the OA central battery+Parallax+Oblivion

o by the way dont patrinize juggs

Originally posted by juggernaut66666
And Kyle is the OA central battery+Parallax+Oblivion

Nope. Kyle is a GL who has absorbed the powers of the central battery.

Jean is the MBody of the Phoenix Force. Not the only one but the favoured one, the "prime host"

The Jean form has been used by the Force in previous realities. Rewriting time will do nothing. Phoenix exists beyond time and space, in Marvel it is the power that sparks off the creation cycle and therefore time/space.

Originally posted by harri
o by the way dont patrinize juggs

I never do. I worship them!

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Nope. Kyle is a GL who has absorbed the powers of the central battery.

Jean is the MBody of the Phoenix Force. Not the only one but the favoured one, the "prime host"

The Jean form has been used by the Force in previous realities. Rewriting time will do nothing. Phoenix exists beyond time and space, in Marvel it is the power that sparks off the creation cycle and therefore time/space.
If she is so uber then why is it that she get's handled by magneto all the time???

It should be Phoenix Force against Ion....
Im so pissed...mid autum festival and everyones playing wif the bloodly lanterns, so noisy...

Originally posted by juggernaut66666
If she is so uber then why is it that she get's handled by magneto all the time???

She doesnt. The instances where that has happened have been plot devices. The first instance it was stated that after the M'Kraan crystal event Jean erected psychic circuit breakers in her mind to cut her power down to a practical level for everyday use on Earth.

In the second instance the famous "Jggg" scene, it was stated time and time again that the Phoenix dies to be reborn, there is purpose behind its death and that Jean had Phoenix work to perform in the future. In the same issue her physical body was destroyed Jean says that she doesnt know how long the Force will let her stay around she has work to do.

Jean the most powerful telepathic force in Marvel, able to grant herself virtually any power as Phoenix, kneels beside a beaten Magneto and comforts him, only to be attacked and "killed". The next page we're shown a Phoenix Egg manifesting in the future.

In a forum battle, such PIS is not catered for. We go by the character in their most powerful form able to use all the abilities theyve demonstrated. If Jean doesnt want to die she will not.

I think a lot of people didn't read zero Hour. Parallax was wiping out the past and cutting off the future at the same time. He was changing reality in alternate dimensions as well. This was no mere chronal energy wielding. Extant is chronal energy and he's top tier cosmic being. Parallax is beyond that. Making IoN beyond parrallax.

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
I think a lot of people didn't read zero Hour. Parallax was wiping out the past and cutting off the future at the same time. He was changing reality in alternate dimensions as well. This was no mere chronal energy wielding. Extant is chronal energy and he's top tier cosmic being. Parallax is beyond that. Making IoN beyond parrallax.

I certainly read Zero Hour and it was stated by captions that he was wielding chronal energies and that he was rewriting history. Thats powerful however hes just working with whats there hes warping and manipulating the timeline. Phoenix showed she can actually cut away and edit time itself, which is beyond manipulating events along the timeline.

Again just to reiterate my analogy its like comparing one of us to a mod. While we can edit and change our posts on the forum, the Mods have the power to delete our posts themselves and determine our access to the forum thereby rendering our ability to edit posts and so on irrelevant.

Actually, he wiped reality clean, and was pouring a new one out of his hand. Not quite the same as messing around with history.

Then his battle with Spectre made him use up his energy.

And then Spectre pumped energy into Damage until he became the new Big Bang.

Then Waverider did some time manipulations and inserted defeated/weak Hal into the timeline before any of it started...


. . . so Zero Hour happened... and didn't.

Originally posted by Juntai
Actually, he wiped reality clean, and was pouring a new one out of his hand. Not quite the same as messing around with history.
He just won't accept that fact neither the one that magneto has beaten phoenix

Originally posted by Juntai
Actually, he wiped reality clean, and was pouring a new one out of his hand. Not quite the same as messing around with history.

Then his battle with Spectre made him use up his energy.

And then Spectre pumped energy into Damage until he became the new Big Bang.

Then Waverider did some time manipulations and inserted defeated/weak Hal into the timeline before any of it started...


. . . so Zero Hour happened... and didn't.

I know what he did, we've discussed this before J. I was hoping you'd enter the fray,its been a while

He wiped reality by travelling to the end of time and he applied his power to the conjunction point of time, the loop where the end met the beginning. This proved to be a catalyst and had the result of everything in between being wiped out. Parallax never did that himself with his own energies, he merely applied his power to a crucial point in the timeline and this set something in motion. Thats different.

With the timeline wiped clean Parallax would have used the CHRONAL energy to replay the creation event tailoring it his will.

Powerful but its the manipulation of whats already there. He does nothing from scratch, nothing through outright power. He applies his power to a conjunction point and sets off something.

With a clean slate he would manipulate time to replay the creation event.

Originally posted by juggernaut66666
He just won't accept that fact neither the one that magneto has beaten phoenix

Magneto has beaten Phoenix, but through plot device which is the crux of the matter. Just like Thor has beaten Galactus, Zombies have beaten Galactus and Alpha Flight have beaten Galactus. Are any of those things on Galactus' level? Hell no! Why did they defeat him? Plot device. He was weak and hungry and so his search for sustenance brings him into conflict with them. Its the same thing.

You couldnt actually make a point within a versus battle that Magneto has beaten Phoenix and expect to get somewhere. There were circumstances behind it. Circumstances which dont apply within a versus match.

He doesn't stand a chance aganist White Phoenix of the Crown.

Originally posted by Xplosive
He doesn't stand a chance aganist White Phoenix of the Crown.

Agreed.

Indeed, he tightened the loop between the beginning and the end of time.YOu have that part correct.

However, he is creating the universe out of his hands. Not time manipulations on the event. I don't know where you got that out of the issue.

I'll point out a few things that contradict your theory, directly from the comic... Shall we?

__________________________________________________

"Are you serious, you can create life..?" Guy Gardner.

"Watch me. All these fledgling globules of energy will soon solidify and become new planets filled with life." - Parralax as he pours a new universe from his fingertips.
__________________________________________________


Doctor John Irons "Impressive. We are witnessing the birth of a new existance!
__________________________________________________

Hal Jordan standing in the nothing that used to be reality:
"It's gone so wrong. Those people.. Coast city..."
"The universe needs a protector -- a real guardian to right these wrongs."
"The Universe needs me."
"Time for a new start."
"Clean Slate."
"A re-made Universe."
"MY universe."
"Who knows. . maybe one Universe won't be enough."


There he's clearly referencing that he has the power to make a multiverse before encountering Spectre. Impressive.
__________________________________________________
________

Parallax the page before Spectre shows up..
"I wish you could embrace what I'm offering. How about a Krypton that never blew up, Superman?"
"Wouldn't you like to regain lost time Captain Atom?"
"They say you can't make a omelette without breaking a few eggs.. . . "
" . .. So I had to erase all existance to build a new and far better reality.
"In the end it will be a new PARADISE! A NEW AGE!







It's pretty obvious, the very panels themselves SHOW the universe coming from him. His hands shaping it.


Your turn.
What part supports your time manipulation of the creation event stuff?

Parallax was manipulating CHRONAL energies, he planned to RECREATE the universe, he was doing nothing from scratch it was all time manipulation, he was working with what was already there:

http://img1.putfile.com/thumb/9/27209354926.jpg

He applied his power to a crucial point in the timeline, the end of time and this acted as a CATALYST. It caused everything in between the end and the beginning to be wiped clean.


http://img1.putfile.com/thumb/9/27209291091.jpg

Its the same as someone blasting open the M'kraan crystal and the crystal going on to wipe out all reality. You wouldnt give that person credit for wiping out reality with their own power. They merely set something in motion.

With a clean set and with vast chronal energies at his command Parallax could replay the creation event. Thats different to actually creating a universe.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Parallax was manipulating CHRONAL energies, he planned to RECREATE the universe, he was doing nothing from scratch it was all time manipulation, he was working with what was already there:

http://img1.putfile.com/thumb/9/27209354926.jpg

He applied his power to a crucial point in the timeline, the end of time and this acted as a CATALYST. It caused everything in between the end and the beginning to be wiped clean.


http://img1.putfile.com/thumb/9/27209291091.jpg

Its the same as someone blasting open the M'kraan crystal and the crystal going on to wipe out all reality. You wouldnt give that person credit for wiping out reality with their own power. They merely set something in motion.

With a clean set and with vast chronal energies at his command Parallax could replay the creation event. Thats different to actually creating a universe. Nothing you showed there contradicts what I had said. I already mentioned how he tied the knot to wipe the universe.

Now where is this part of him NOT creation a reality from his hands, but rather just manipulating time?

The very pages depict him shaping worlds with his hands.
And I just showed half a dozen quotes directly from the comic supporting the very thing.

Teh Juntai just PWNED YOU!!!!

"Are you serious, you can create life..?" Guy Gardner.

"Watch me. All these fledgling globules of energy will soon solidify and become new planets filled with life." - Parralax as he pours a new universe from his fingertips.

That was just one of many.



Shit, you even posted the scan for me.

Parallax actually refers to a remaking and he states loud and clear that hes achieving this all through CHRONAL energies. It is undoubtedly time manipulation and with that statement you cant speculate that its anything but that.


Creating life anew through time manipulation is possible. By replaying the creation event and forwarding time of course new life will emerge. All Parallax would have to do now is tailor these events to possess a universe of his suiting.

Originally posted by juggernaut66666
Teh Juntai just PWNED YOU!!!!

Originally posted by Juntai
"Are you serious, you can create life..?" Guy Gardner.

"Watch me. All these fledgling globules of energy will soon solidify and become new planets filled with life." - Parralax as he pours a new universe from his fingertips.

That was just one of many.

Nope as he pours chronal energy from his fingertips as stated. He is using chronal energy, to achieve everything therefore its undisputably time manipulation. Take his comment and then interpret everything with that line in mind.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Nope as he pours chronal energy from his fingertips as stated. He is using chronal energy, to achieve everything therefore its undisputably time manipulation. Take his comment and then interpret everything with that line in mind. Sorry buddy, not buying into the theory.
He's descibing CREATING entire worlds and life, a whole new universe, and possibly more than one.

It's there even in the scan you posted.

http://img223.imageshack.us/img223/2967/1zg5.th.jpg
http://img145.imageshack.us/img145/585/2ed2.th.jpg

Originally posted by juggernaut66666
Teh Juntai just PWNED YOU!!!!

Wishful thinking.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Wishful thinking.
I know it is sad but it is true!
Originally posted by juggernaut66666
http://img223.imageshack.us/img223/2967/1zg5.th.jpg
http://img145.imageshack.us/img145/585/2ed2.th.jpg

Originally posted by Juntai
Sorry buddy, not buying into the theory.
He's descibing CREATING entire worlds and life, a whole new universe, and possibly more than one.

It's there even in the scan you posted.

Youre ignoring the fact that hes stated that hes using chronal energy to achieve everything because it doesnt coincide with your interpretation.

You cant do that J. All the creation of life and so forth can be achieved by time manipulation. By replaying whats come before, all Parallax would have to do is tailor events to get his desired result. It fits perfectly.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Youre ignoring the fact that hes stated that hes using chronal energy to achieve everything because it doesnt coincide with your interpretation.

You cant do that J. All the creation of life and so forth can be achieved by time manipulation. By replaying whats come before, all Parallax would have to do is tailor events to get his desired result. It fits perfectly.
Makes sense, he goes back to the dawn time, and unmake reality.

However what can Phoenix do that surpasses that feature?

Originally posted by Juntai
Indeed, he tightened the loop between the beginning and the end of time.YOu have that part correct.

However, he is creating the universe out of his hands. Not time manipulations on the event. I don't know where you got that out of the issue.

I'll point out a few things that contradict your theory, directly from the comic... Shall we?

__________________________________________________

"Are you serious, you can create life..?" Guy Gardner.

"Watch me. All these fledgling globules of energy will soon solidify and become new planets filled with life." - Parralax as he pours a new universe from his fingertips.
__________________________________________________


Doctor John Irons "Impressive. We are witnessing the birth of a new existance!
__________________________________________________

Hal Jordan standing in the nothing that used to be reality:
"It's gone so wrong. Those people.. Coast city..."
"The universe needs a protector -- a real guardian to right these wrongs."
"The Universe needs me."
"Time for a new start."
"Clean Slate."
"A re-made Universe."
"MY universe."
"Who knows. . maybe one Universe won't be enough."


There he's clearly referencing that he has the power to make a multiverse before encountering Spectre. Impressive.
__________________________________________________
________

Parallax the page before Spectre shows up..
"I wish you could embrace what I'm offering. How about a Krypton that never blew up, Superman?"
"Wouldn't you like to regain lost time Captain Atom?"
"They say you can't make a omelette without breaking a few eggs.. . . "
" . .. So I had to erase all existance to build a new and far better reality.
"In the end it will be a new PARADISE! A NEW AGE!


It's pretty obvious, the very panels themselves SHOW the universe coming from him. His hands shaping it.


Your turn.
What part supports your time manipulation of the creation event stuff?

None of those quotes contradict my interpretation however yours fails to acknowledge Parallax's statement that hes using chronal energies as well as the strong time manipulation theme that ran throughout the title.

Replaying the creation event, changing events slightly here and there (such as the factors that resulted in the end of Kryptons destruction and C Atoms death) would give the desired result.

Originally posted by Thanos_THOTU
Makes sense, he goes back to the dawn time, and unmake reality.

However what can Phoenix do that surpasses that feature?

All Parallax did was manipulate the time stream of Dcs main universe.

Phoenix showed she can actually cut away at time itself. She amputated 616's future and carried it away beyond reality. Time is nothing to Phoenix she is not bound by it so an attack achieved through time manipulation would be useless.

Phoenix had reality itself in the palm of her hand. She materialized it atom by atom. Reality encompasses a timeline. She held its fate in the palm of her hand. Parallax manipulated the timestream thats all.

It shows him building the universe in his hands piece by piece, starting with a blank page, and the energy forms into his hands... it gets bigger every panel through the comic...He compares what he's doing in creating a new universe, to him starting to rebuild coast city - which he simply willed to appear as a GL. In the scan you showed, it had already escalated to across the backdrop of the entire page.

It describes him creating globules of energy that would be the planets of a new universe, where he creates all the life. And had he not been stopped, a multiverse. As he mentions "Maybe one universe won't be enough" and later mentions making another one for the JSA, where he make them eternally young.

Across the entire comic they mention him" "creating a new universe" or "witnessing the birth of a new universe".

I'm not getting where you see that as just time manipulation.

He was just one Wrath of God shy of being the creator.

Originally posted by Juntai
It shows him building the universe in his hands piece by piece, starting with a blank page, and the energy forms into his hands... it gets bigger every panel through the comic...He compares what he's doing in creating a new universe, to him starting to rebuild coast city - which he simply willed to appear as a GL. In the scan you showed, it had already escalated to across the backdrop of the entire page.

It describes him creating globules of energy that would be the planets of a new universe, where he creates all the life. And had he not been stopped, a multiverse. As he mentions "Maybe one universe won't be enough" and later mentions making another one for the JSA, where he make them eternally young.

Across the entire comic they mention him" "creating a new universe" or "witnessing the birth of a new universe".

I'm not getting where you see that as just time manipulation.

He was just one Wrath of God shy of being the creator.



Creating life and remaking a universe are something that can be achieved with time manipulation ive already explained, you know its possible.

Youre using ambiguous artistic depiction and comments pertaining to a new universe being made to form your argument. That isnt good enough. Yes we see energy and so on flowing from his hands and forming life but at the same time he states its chronal energy. Yes they say hes creating a new universe, but that doesnt contradict my theory. If he just wiped out the old universe then goes about replaying the creation event through time manipulation then the resultant universe would be new. Especially if he went on to make minor alterations to events (such as Krypton, Coast City and C Atoms death) so that it was a universe tailored to his liking. Its all about interpretation J.

Youre forgetting to acknowledge that he states that it is ALL achieved through chronal energies. You cant escape that point, acknowledge that point and interpret everything he does with that point in mind.

Chronal energies are to do with the manipulation of time and theyre the energies Hal says he used. Its as simple as that.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Creating life and remaking a universe are something that can be achieved with time manipulation ive already explained, you know its possible.

Youre using ambiguous artistic depiction and comments pertaining to a new universe being made to form your argument. That isnt good enough. Yes we see energy and so on flowing from his hands and forming life but at the same time he states its chronal energy. Yes they say hes creating a new universe, but that doesnt contradict my theory. If he just wiped out the old universe then goes about replaying the creation event through time manipulation then the resultant universe would be new. Its all about interpretation J.

Youre forgetting to acknowledge that he states that it is ALL achieved through chronal energies. You cant escape that point, acknowledge that point and interpret everything he does with that point in mind.

Chronal energies are to do with the manipulation of time and theyre the energies Hal says he used. Its as simple as that. I dunno, you can interpret whatever you want about him having chronal energy as whatever, he had the entire OA Battery and the energy from dawn of time where they fought the anti-monitor-- He has the powers of a GL towards infinity and then some.

The words and likewise the pictures depictions have him creating and forming a new multiverse entirely from nothing in his hands, just as described in my last post. And just as the characters were describing and commenting on.

His energy is forming the universe, he created energy from nothing, and began building a multiverse and created the life therein. He even commented how it was just like him willing Coast City from nothing just on a much larger scale. Seems pretty godlike.

What I'm saying isn't 'up to interpretation', I'm simply saying what happened in the comic, the quotes from it, and the describing the pictures there-in.

You're just reaching on a comment of him having chronal energy.

Likewise it doesn't mention anywhere that he's simply messing with time, but instead creating a universe, the light, the life, and everything, from nothing.

Later on Waverider says Hal is using plasma energy to create the new universe. Got a conspiracy theory on that one too?

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Creating a universe? Nope. He was manipulating time to replay the creation event. Thats a big difference.


Agreed , i have yet to see anything to suggest that Pharallax is anywhere near as powerful as a Galactus or a Abstract level being. Mind Zero hour was the biggest load shite i have read !!!!! (With the exception of of OWAW / Phoenix Endsong )

Originally posted by GalacticStorm

Phoenix showed she can actually cut away at time itself. She amputated 616's future and carried it away beyond reality. Time is nothing to Phoenix she is not bound by it so an attack achieved through time manipulation would be useless.

Ok which book are these feats featured in, cos the Morisson, Endsong and Claremount Phoenix never had this type of power.

Originally posted by R.O.T. Yahman
Agreed , i have yet to see anything to suggest that Pharallax is anywhere near as powerful as a Galactus or a Abstract level being. Mind Zero hour was the biggest load shite i have read !!!!! After they replaced defeated and powerless Hal with the all powerful one in the timestream at the end of the Zero Hour, no he wasn't as powerful as full powered Galactus or characters on that level or up.

In that storyline though, he was pretty much Godlike, almost had his own multiverse.

Now answer me this- Yahman, if he DIDN'T create the universe as shown in the comic, but used time manipulations as GS's theory, how would he create ANOTHER ONE for the JSA?

Originally posted by Juntai
After they replaced defeated and powerless Hal with the all powerful one in the timestream at the end of the Zero Hour, no he wasn't as powerful as full powered Galactus or characters on that level or up.

In that storyline though, he was pretty much Godlike, almost had his own multiverse.

Now answer me this- Yahman, if he DIDN'T create the universe as shown in the comic, but used time manipulations as GS's theory, how would he create ANOTHER ONE for the JSA? :

I have no idea, but that is interesting none the less. The ending of Zero hour is incrediblly ambiguos, but on the matter of creating minor universes; didn't the D.C. Odin once do something simillar ? He created a type of Limbo, in which the JSA where trapped for a period of time ?

Originally posted by R.O.T. Yahman
I have no idea, but that is interesting none the less. The ending of Zero hour is incrediblly ambiguos, but on the matter of creating minor universes; didn't the D.C. Odin once do something simillar ? He created a type of Limbo, in which the JSA where trapped for a period of time ? I don't think its a full fledged creation like Hal was doing, more of a pocket dimension that Odin created, as Odin is more considered up with Highfather in power that anyone creating realities.

It just so amazed me the hateration I see about the Hal Jordan's feat. he did much more on panel than Thanos ever did with the IG. Thanos didn't wipe reality away. Chronal Energy alone cannot do what Hal did. Exant is the wearer of the Worlogog. Which is like having the time gem and power gem in one. And he couldn't do what hal was doing. Chronal energy alone is not enough to create "new" universes. Only enough to rewrite something that is already there. If people read the tie ins to zero hour as well as the main book, they would know that he had more than chronal enery. Why the hell would he need the Oa battery for just "Chronal" energy? does that make sense? ION2 used the energy from oa to literally create the guardians all over again. He didn't rewind time. He made hundreds of Upper lvl Sky father beings out of that energy. and then refilled the Oa battery back up. That wasn't chronal energy was it? It was the same energy that parallax had. Come on people, put those thinking caps on and connect the dots.

Originally posted by Juntai
I'm not getting where you see that as just time manipulation.

Don't you get it?

He's twisting the On Panel evidence to demean Ion's power, ensuring the Phoenix victory.


From those scans, Ion would obliterate the White Phoenix of the Crown.

Phoenix has never destroyed, remade or created even a single Universe on panel.

In it's Natural State the Phoenix Can NOT be used in a Versus Thread.

Because it is UNAWARE of it's Own Existence

http://img180.imageshack.us/img180/9239/f1ov3.th.jpg


The Phoenix Force tells Rachel, "ALL I have become, You ARE Too"

http://img223.imageshack.us/img223/4920/f2bj2.th.jpg

"My Essence is Bonded to Your Spirit, the Burden of Power, will be YOURS"


The Phoenix Force has NO CONSCIOUSNESS in it's Natural State

http://img150.imageshack.us/img150/5633/f3pe8.th.jpg


Phoenix Force itself told Rachel, " You are the ONE TRUE PHOENIX"

http://img92.imageshack.us/img92/6269/f5uk4.th.jpg



Phoenix Force was manipulated in it's entirety.

http://img134.imageshack.us/img134/862/f2we4.th.jpg

http://img134.imageshack.us/img134/8500/r1qz2.th.jpg


Don't be so surprised, it's not the first time the Phoenix Force has been USED and ABUSED

The Actual PHOENIX FORCE again is Manipulated
http://img246.imageshack.us/img246/4852/f11lk4.th.jpg

"an Ancient Crippled Alien Construct brought the PHOENIX FORCE here by WRENCHING it through the Space/Time Continuum from ITS NATIVE UNIVERSE"


Feron, a Mortal STUDENT of Magic Exploited the Phoenix

http://img514.imageshack.us/img514/1399/tower26ug4lz.th.jpg

It ONLY took him a decade to perform this Feat.

The FULL Phoenix Force getting HANDLED Again:


A Few members of the X-Men and Ultra Force (SIX in ALL) are sent to battle the PHOENIX FORCE
http://img453.imageshack.us/img453/3770/f17we6.th.jpg


"The assembled Heroes are TIRED & BATTERED, the PHOENIX is REBORN and FRESH.
http://img161.imageshack.us/img161/9686/f12xp8.th.jpg

AND they're STILL holding their own against the PF


Amber Hunt & Gate tear a Hole through Time & Space,
http://img431.imageshack.us/img431/4613/f13qr4.th.jpg


The Six Guardians BEAT (PHYSICALLY) the PHOENIX FORCE into and through the Portal
http://img431.imageshack.us/img431/2667/f14nz2.th.jpg


The Phoenix Force ends up DISPLACED by FOUR Billion Years
http://img169.imageshack.us/img169/5469/f15eg2.th.jpg



Xorn, KILLING Jean Grey the PHOENIX FORCE with an Electromagnetic Pulse
http://img453.imageshack.us/img453/9213/f16jd6.th.jpg

http://img201.imageshack.us/img201/3699/phoenixnewxmen0000qw8se1.th.jpg

Originally posted by Mr Master
The FULL Phoenix Force getting HANDLED Again:


A Few members of the X-Men and Ultra Force (SIX in ALL) are sent to battle the PHOENIX FORCE
http://img453.imageshack.us/img453/3770/f17we6.th.jpg


"The assembled Heroes are TIRED & BATTERED, the PHOENIX is REBORN and FRESH.
http://img161.imageshack.us/img161/9686/f12xp8.th.jpg

AND they're STILL holding their own against the PF


Amber Hunt & Gate tear a Hole through Time & Space,
http://img431.imageshack.us/img431/4613/f13qr4.th.jpg


The Six Guardians BEAT (PHYSICALLY) the PHOENIX FORCE into and through the Portal
http://img431.imageshack.us/img431/2667/f14nz2.th.jpg


The Phoenix Force ends up DISPLACED by FOUR Billion Years
http://img169.imageshack.us/img169/5469/f15eg2.th.jpg



Xorn, KILLING Jean Grey the PHOENIX FORCE with an Electromagnetic Pulse
http://img453.imageshack.us/img453/9213/f16jd6.th.jpg

http://img201.imageshack.us/img201/3699/phoenixnewxmen0000qw8se1.th.jpg
Those are plot devices

Originally posted by juggernaut66666
Those are plot devices

That's always his excuse.

BU7 N0 0N3 C3N B3A7 T3H PH03N1X!!!!

Originally posted by juggernaut66666
BU7 N0 0N3 C3N B3A7 T3H PH03N1X!!!!

X3 wolverine

Originally posted by Inhuman
X3 wolverine
TH3T WA5 A PL0T D3V1C3!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Originally posted by Mr Master
The FULL Phoenix Force getting HANDLED Again:


A Few members of the X-Men and Ultra Force (SIX in ALL) are sent to battle the PHOENIX FORCE
http://img453.imageshack.us/img453/3770/f17we6.th.jpg


"The assembled Heroes are TIRED & BATTERED, the PHOENIX is REBORN and FRESH.
http://img161.imageshack.us/img161/9686/f12xp8.th.jpg

AND they're STILL holding their own against the PF


Amber Hunt & Gate tear a Hole through Time & Space,
http://img431.imageshack.us/img431/4613/f13qr4.th.jpg


The Six Guardians BEAT (PHYSICALLY) the PHOENIX FORCE into and through the Portal
http://img431.imageshack.us/img431/2667/f14nz2.th.jpg


The Phoenix Force ends up DISPLACED by FOUR Billion Years
http://img169.imageshack.us/img169/5469/f15eg2.th.jpg



Xorn, KILLING Jean Grey the PHOENIX FORCE with an Electromagnetic Pulse
http://img453.imageshack.us/img453/9213/f16jd6.th.jpg

http://img201.imageshack.us/img201/3699/phoenixnewxmen0000qw8se1.th.jpg

Ouch.

Teh pwnage is served pipin' hot.

Originally posted by Avalonofthewind
Ouch.

Teh pwnage is served pipin' hot.

Ion 10/10

Originally posted by Juntai


Now answer me this- Yahman, if he DIDN'T create the universe as shown in the comic, but used time manipulations as GS's theory, how would he create ANOTHER ONE for the JSA?

Did he actually create another one or did he say he was going to? I cant remember.

Either way didnt the JSA come from another reality anyway? Wasnt Parallax making use of disruptions in reality left over from Crisis? A time period when the JSA had their own reality.

Originally posted by Mr Master
Don't you get it?

He's twisting the On Panel evidence to demean Ion's power, ensuring the Phoenix victory.


From those scans, Ion would obliterate the White Phoenix of the Crown.

Phoenix has never destroyed, remade or created even a single Universe on panel.

Nope. Youre on an anti Phoenix campaign because you see Phoenix as a threat to your Beyonder fantasies.

Im not twisting on panel evidence in the slightest. Ion says he used chronal energy to do everything. He states that on panel therefore we know everything he did involved time manipulation. Thats all

Originally posted by R.O.T. Yahman
Ok which book are these feats featured in, cos the Morisson, Endsong and Claremount Phoenix never had this type of power.

New X-men 154 Phoenix amputates the Here Comes Tomorrow future because its infested with Sublime.

Originally posted by Mr Master
In it's Natural State the Phoenix Can NOT be used in a Versus Thread.

Because it is UNAWARE of it's Own Existence




So the simple solution is to not use the Force in its natural state

Noone does.

Thats different to saying you cant use the Phoenix Force in debates.


Originally posted by Mr Master
The Phoenix Force tells Rachel, "ALL I have become, You ARE Too"

http://img223.imageshack.us/img223/4920/f2bj2.th.jpg

"My Essence is Bonded to Your Spirit, the Burden of Power, will be YOURS"

So what is your point? All the Phoenix has become (i.e all its learned since it evolved a Consciousness) is Rachels because it is bonded to her. However it also says accept my limitations dont be seduced by the infinite of life unborn. It is canon that after the Dark Phoenix Saga the Phoenix learned from its mistakes and when bonded to Rachel allowed her to access its power in limited amounts. That line supports that. Rachel never has had full access to the Force.


Originally posted by Mr Master
The Phoenix Force has NO CONSCIOUSNESS in it's Natural State

http://img150.imageshack.us/img150/5633/f3pe8.th.jpg

Common knowledge. Which is why the Phoenix in its natural state isnt used in battle, it would be like pitting someone against the Infinity Gauntlet without a wielder.


Originally posted by Mr Master
Phoenix Force itself told Rachel, " You are the ONE TRUE PHOENIX"

http://img92.imageshack.us/img92/6269/f5uk4.th.jpg

Puzzling comment given that its continuity that Jean is the one true Phoenix the actual MBody of the Phoenix Force as per recent sources such as New X-men and Endsong. Please bear in mind that Excalibur is over ten years old. Revisions have been made, revisions you unfortunatly for your argument have overlooked.



Originally posted by Mr Master
Phoenix Force was manipulated in it's entirety.


http://img134.imageshack.us/img134/8500/r1qz2.th.jpg


Originally posted by Mr Master
Don't be so surprised, it's not the first time the Phoenix Force has been USED and ABUSED

The Actual PHOENIX FORCE again is Manipulated


"an Ancient Crippled Alien Construct brought the PHOENIX FORCE here by WRENCHING it through the Space/Time Continuum from ITS NATIVE UNIVERSE"

The firebird is not the sum total of the Phoenix. Your poor knowledge of the Phoenix character is what leads you to make such flawed arguments. The firebird is a Celestial avatar. It is a representation of the Phoenix Force, a manifestation of the life force of reality, NOT the sum total of the Phoenix Force in one spot. The Phoenix Force is all life, if it gathered together in its totality in that firebird form then there would be no life anywhere else.

Being a shard of the Phoenix Force doesnt stop that shard being called the Phoenix Force. The Just look at Endsong for example, that was only a Phoenix shard.

In Phoenix resurrection this firebird this representation of the life force of 616 flew into the Ultraverse where it was depowered and considerably weaker.


http://img1.putfile.com/thumb/10/27308042068.jpg


Originally posted by Mr Master
Feron, a Mortal STUDENT of Magic Exploited the Phoenix



It ONLY took him a decade to perform this Feat.

Nope, Feron communed with the Phoenix and it gave him aid.

And im the one who twists statements to fit in with my argument?

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
It just so amazed me the hateration I see about the Hal Jordan's feat. he did much more on panel than Thanos ever did with the IG. Thanos didn't wipe reality away. Chronal Energy alone cannot do what Hal did. Exant is the wearer of the Worlogog. Which is like having the time gem and power gem in one. And he couldn't do what hal was doing. Chronal energy alone is not enough to create "new" universes. Only enough to rewrite something that is already there. If people read the tie ins to zero hour as well as the main book, they would know that he had more than chronal enery. Why the hell would he need the Oa battery for just "Chronal" energy? does that make sense? ION2 used the energy from oa to literally create the guardians all over again. He didn't rewind time. He made hundreds of Upper lvl Sky father beings out of that energy. and then refilled the Oa battery back up. That wasn't chronal energy was it? It was the same energy that parallax had. Come on people, put those thinking caps on and connect the dots.

Trust me im not hating im just going by what was stated. Parallax stated in Zero Hour that he was achieving all of this creation, everything he was doing via CHRONAL energy, thereore it was via time manipulation. Theres no debating that point, who are any of us to argue with that point?

With that in mind im interpreting everything he did with that point (about the chronal energy achieving everything) in mind. When thats done it means that he was manipulating time, events from the timeline to create. He wasnt doing it off his own back he was making use of what was already there and tailoring it to suit his vision.

Im not denying that Parallax has other powers, because i know he does however thats besides the point. The crux of the matter is that all of the creation he did in Zero Hour was via Chronal energy as he stated.

Originally posted by Avalonofthewind
Ouch.

Teh pwnage is served pipin' hot.

If you know nothng about the Phoenix besides hearsay then yes you could be excused for thinking so.

Actually read up on the Phoenix and you'll see there are circumstances behind the events in these scans.

These very carefully selected scans which conveniently give no background info.

Thankfully im around to do just that.

Good day to you.

So with all of that in mind, if Ion was to go against the Phoenix, time manipulation would be a futile exercise against a being who can snip away at time itself.

Again one of us versus a mod.

Any matter and energy (other than chronal) feats to show hes actually worthy of Phoenixes time? She's a busy gal

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
If you know nothng about the Phoenix besides hearsay then yes you could be excused for thinking so.

Actually read up on the Phoenix and you'll see there are circumstances behind the events in these scans.

These very carefully selected scans which conveniently give no background info.

Thankfully im around to do just that.

Good day to you.
Cause everytime Phoenix get's owned it is a plot device

Wait here is another plot device then
http://img389.imageshack.us/img389/2113/magdrawslifeenergy8etrx8.th.jpg

Originally posted by juggernaut66666
cause everytime Phoenix get's owned it is a plot device

wait here is another plot device then
http://img389.imageshack.us/img389/2113/magdrawslifeenergy8etrx8.th.jpg

Ive already explained this. Its actually canon that after the M'kraan crystal event she cut off her power to levels practical for everyday use on Earth.

Therefore using a scan where she was under those circumstances as representative of how Phoenix would perform in battle when not under those circumstances is a futile exercise.

Anything else?

oh so if it is not a plot device then she is depowered that time now I get it

Originally posted by juggernaut66666
oh so if it is not a plot device then she is depowered that time now I get it

Nope. A plot device was introduced so that Phoenix could be kept on to the X-men team. She depowered herself, she erected psychic circuit breakers in her mind to cut off her power. Simple as that.

Theres no time in continuity where the full Phoenix Force has gone up against something and lost.

Its just how it is and im relating that to you son. Dont hate me for it.

Oh so these guys are not handling the Phoenix force they are just pretending like that
Originally posted by Mr Master
The FULL Phoenix Force getting HANDLED Again:


A Few members of the X-Men and Ultra Force (SIX in ALL) are sent to battle the PHOENIX FORCE
http://img453.imageshack.us/img453/3770/f17we6.th.jpg


"The assembled Heroes are TIRED & BATTERED, the PHOENIX is REBORN and FRESH.
http://img161.imageshack.us/img161/9686/f12xp8.th.jpg

AND they're STILL holding their own against the PF


Amber Hunt & Gate tear a Hole through Time & Space,
http://img431.imageshack.us/img431/4613/f13qr4.th.jpg


The Six Guardians BEAT (PHYSICALLY) the PHOENIX FORCE into and through the Portal
http://img431.imageshack.us/img431/2667/f14nz2.th.jpg


The Phoenix Force ends up DISPLACED by FOUR Billion Years
http://img169.imageshack.us/img169/5469/f15eg2.th.jpg



Xorn, KILLING Jean Grey the PHOENIX FORCE with an Electromagnetic Pulse
http://img453.imageshack.us/img453/9213/f16jd6.th.jpg

http://img201.imageshack.us/img201/3699/phoenixnewxmen0000qw8se1.th.jpg

Did the Phoenix still have the circuit breakers when she became Dark Phoenix and ate a star?

Originally posted by juggernaut66666
Oh so these guys are not handling the Phoenix force they are just pretending like that

Have you actually bothered to read my post pertaining to those scans or have you just overlooked it because it was too wordy for your attention span?

The Firebird isnt the full Phoenix Force, it is a Celestial avatar a representation of the life force of 616. Each universe has one of those firebirds. They are manifestations of the Phoenix Consciousness of the White Hot Room.

The Phoenix Force is life, if it gathered together in one spot in that firebird form there would be no life anywhere else.

Being a part of the Phoenix Force doesnt stop that part being called the Phoenix Force.

The firebrd in that scan is depowered because it is within another reality, a reality different to the one it draws power from.

http://img1.putfile.com/thumb/10/27308042068.jpg

So once again those scans depict a weak Phoenix. Such a Phoenix isnt the type that we're debating about in versus matches. In versus matches we use the characters at the height of their abilities able to employ all their abilities.

In a versus match the Phoenix isnt going to have psychic circuit breakers cutting off her power

Not going to have work to do necessitating her departure from reality

Not going to be just a shard lost in an alternate universe and therefore depowered.

Read that post and think about the implications before posting again.

your fuuny

Originally posted by harri
your fuuny

Stop spamming/Double posting.

soz i have to

Originally posted by ExodusCloak
Did the Phoenix still have the circuit breakers when she became Dark Phoenix and ate a star?

Yes. The circuit breakers were one of the reasons behind Dark Phoenix. Mastermind awakened a hunger for power within her, however she had the breakers in place cutting off her might so there was an inner struggle between her good side and bad side which made her go insane. With her power cut off the Dark Phoenix persona ate the star as a stop gap measure. It was gradually winning the battle and wouldve eventually won hence the reason why the good Jean persona committed suicide lest the dark side gain access to the full power and destroy everything.

i dont normally

Originally posted by harri
soz i have to

You don't have to at all, you posted in the same minutr use the damn edit button.

ok? just dont get angnry

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Yes. The circuit breakers were one of the reasons behind Dark Phoenix. Mastermind awakened a hunger for power within her, however she had the breakers in place cutting off her might so there was an inner struggle between her good side and bad side which made her go insane. With her power cut off the Dark Phoenix persona ate the star as a stop gap measure. It was gradually winning the battle and wouldve eventually won hence the reason why the good Jean persona committed suicide lest the dark side gain access to the full power and destroy everything.

I've read it before...just had to refresh my memory...thanks for the tune up...that's where she reduces Mastermind to a pile of...(Insert amoeba adjective in here)

god

soz did it again

hello

Originally posted by harri
hello

helooooooo juggs

Originally posted by harri
helooooooo juggs

Just to reiterate. The Phoenix Force is the life force of reality, the formless energy that flows through and makes up all that lives. The firebird is NOT the sum total of the Phoenix Force. It is a manifestation of the Force.

A part of the Phoenix Force is still the Phoenix Force hence why the firebird is still the Phoenix Force. (The shard of the Force that caused all of the havok in Endsong was still referred to as the Force for example) However as we've seen in titles like New X-men there is so much more to the Force it simultaneously resides in the White Hot Room where it and its avatars watch over creation.

There can be many of these firebirds running around at any one time, however dont make the mistake of thinking one of these firebirds are the sum total of the Force. They are just manifestations of the life force of any given reality.

http://img1.putfile.com/thumb/10/27310301396.jpg

http://img1.putfile.com/thumb/10/27310301379.jpg

It is just a part of it, just like Jean Grey is herself. If the Phoenix manifested in its totality in one single bird form then there would be no life anywhere else.

Thats enough for now i'll be back later to handle any replies.

Ciao

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
.

How can you LOVE such a boring character, so much ?, Its good to see you around, hows Reading ?

Im in Leeds now !

Originally posted by GalacticStorm

Im not twisting on panel evidence in the slightest. Ion says he used chronal energy to do everything. He states that on panel therefore we know everything he did involved time manipulation. Thats all Sorry, the entire story goes against what you're saying here, and besides an offhanded comment of him having chronal energy, there's nothing to support what you're suggesting. I've already pointed it out, and anyone who has read or owns the story can clearly see it depicts him creating a new universe in the palm of his hand, rather than just manipulating time.

The Ray says "I'll absorb the LIGHT he's created!". Hal Jordan was he who "Let there be light" in his new universe. He created the planets and the life. All of this is identified on panel. By the time Spectre shows up, his universe is still in a plasma energy form, waiting to solidify and become the new reality, as Waverider indentifies. Which Hal himself created, as seen on panel, in the first pages of the final issue of Zero Hour.

The entire context of the story, the quotes, the pictures, it all goes against what you're saying here. How many times must it be pointed out?

Originally posted by Juntai
It shows him building the universe in his hands piece by piece, starting with a blank page, and the energy forms into his hands... it gets bigger every panel through the comic...He compares what he's doing in creating a new universe, to him starting to rebuild coast city - which he simply willed to appear as a GL. In the scan you showed, it had already escalated to across the backdrop of the entire page.

It describes him creating globules of energy that would be the planets of a new universe, where he creates all the life. And had he not been stopped, a multiverse. As he mentions "Maybe one universe won't be enough" and later mentions making another one for the JSA, where he make them eternally young.

Across the entire comic they mention him" "creating a new universe" or "witnessing the birth of a new universe".

I'm not getting where you see that as just time manipulation.

He was just one Wrath of God shy of being the creator.

Originally posted by Juntai
I dunno, you can interpret whatever you want about him having chronal energy as whatever, he had the entire OA Battery and the energy from dawn of time where they fought the anti-monitor-- He has the powers of a GL towards infinity and then some.

The words and likewise the pictures depictions have him creating and forming a new multiverse entirely from nothing in his hands, just as described in my last post. And just as the characters were describing and commenting on.

His energy is forming the universe, he created energy from nothing, and began building a multiverse and created the life therein. He even commented how it was just like him willing Coast City from nothing just on a much larger scale. Seems pretty godlike.

What I'm saying isn't 'up to interpretation', I'm simply saying what happened in the comic, the quotes from it, and the describing the pictures there-in.

You're just reaching on a comment of him having chronal energy.

Likewise it doesn't mention anywhere that he's simply messing with time, but instead creating a universe, the light, the life, and everything, from nothing.

Later on Waverider says Hal is using plasma energy to create the new universe. Got a conspiracy theory on that one too?

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
If you know nothng about the Phoenix besides hearsay then yes you could be excused for thinking so.

Actually read up on the Phoenix and you'll see there are circumstances behind the events in these scans.

These very carefully selected scans which conveniently give no background info.

Thankfully im around to do just that.

Good day to you.

You are more than welcome to fight the good fight my friend.

And, yes...luckily you are around to entertain us... but will you have a convincing argument to back up your claims?

Currently I don't see anything on your behalf that disproves his claims, but I'm sure you are working on that. Correct?

Till then, I'll lurk around and see what evidence is brought up on both sides.

Toodles!

BTW Phoenix hasn't done anything on panel that should be compared to Zero-hour Parallax's feats

Originally posted by juggernaut66666
BTW Phoenix hasn't done anything on panel that should be compared to Zero-hour Parallax's feats

THANK YOU!!! its about time someone said it! I salute you sir.

Originally posted by Juntai
Sorry, the entire story goes against what you're saying here, and besides an offhanded comment of him having chronal energy, there's nothing to support what you're suggesting. I've already pointed it out, and anyone who has read or owns the story can clearly see it depicts him creating a new universe in the palm of his hand, rather than just manipulating time.

The Ray says "I'll absorb the LIGHT he's created!". Hal Jordan was he who "Let there be light" in his new universe. He created the planets and the life. All of this is identified on panel. By the time Spectre shows up, his universe is still in a plasma energy form, waiting to solidify and become the new reality, as Waverider indentifies. Which Hal himself created, as seen on panel, in the first pages of the final issue of Zero Hour.

The entire context of the story, the quotes, the pictures, it all goes against what you're saying here. How many times must it be pointed out?

And yet all of that CAN be achieved via time manipulation. Therefore if he states that thats how he DID achieve EVERYTHING then unless your word determines DC canon you simply cannot argue against that. Simple as.

All of the comments you've posted all of the artistic depiction you've referred to is possible via Time manipulation. Its simply a case of replaying events from the timeline and as tailoring certain events so that the outcomes in line with his vision.

Originally posted by Avalonofthewind
You are more than welcome to fight the good fight my friend.

And, yes...luckily you are around to entertain us... but will you have a convincing argument to back up your claims?

Currently I don't see anything on your behalf that disproves his claims, but I'm sure you are working on that. Correct?

Till then, I'll lurk around and see what evidence is brought up on both sides.

Toodles!



Whose claims are you referring to? Mr M's or J's?

MrM's are conclusively wrong and are in opposition to can, anyone who takes the time out to actually research the character will quickly found that. You not being one of those people were easily deluded. No worries youre a DC boy, i wouldnt expect you to know.

As for Juntais claims, he makes a good case and this guy i actually respect, he is a true debator (unlike the other one ), however his interpretation doesnt acknowledge Parallaxes comments regarding how he achieved EVERYTHING. Im taking that fundamental statement and interpreting everything he done on panel with that statement in mind.

Hows that for you Avvy?

Comprehensive enough? I can break it down?

Its been a while, but as always, a pleasure.

-GS

Originally posted by juggernaut66666
BTW Phoenix hasn't done anything on panel that should be compared to Zero-hour Parallax's feats
Btw How could someone create a new universe with time manipulation? Cause he wasn't re-creating the old one he was creating a new one

Originally posted by juggernaut66666
BTW Phoenix hasn't done anything on panel that should be compared to Zero-hour Parallax's feats

His feat was to set in motion the wiping out of everything along the DC universe timeline. His power proved to be the catalyst for that outcome, he applied his power to the end of time where the end meets the beginning, putting pressure on this loop.

http://img1.putfile.com/thumb/9/27209291091.jpg


Its like removing the keystone from a building causing the entire structure to come toppling down, killing everyone within. Did you physically punch down the structure and destroy everything within the building or did your actions merely set that outcome in motion?


See my point?

Cool


He never actually wiped out everything himself. Thats not as impressive as a number of Phoenixes feats.

Originally posted by juggernaut66666
Btw How could someone create a new universe with time manipulation? Cause he wasn't re-creating the old one he was creating a new one

He could have rewound the creation event (The Big Bang) and then altered certain events along the timeline (such as Coast City, the destruction of Krypton etc) so that he could have a new universe tailored to his liking. Hal even says that its his desire to bring back Coast City and he even offers to introduce a reality where such instances were averted.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
His feat was to set in motion the wiping out of everything along the DC universe Time line. His power proved to be the catalyst for that outcome, he applied his power to the end of time where the end meets the beginning, putting pressure on this loop.

http://img1.putfile.com/thumb/9/27209291091.jpg


Its like removing the keystone from a building causing the entire structure to come toppling down, killing everyone within. Did you physically punch down the structure and destroy everything within the building or did your actions merely set that outcome in motion?


See my point?

Cool


He never actually wiped out everything himself. Thats not as impressive as a number of Phoenixes feats.

I agree, Extant was also needed to remove all the historic events from the Time line, and changing continuity is hardly difficult in the D.C. universe, usually all you need to do is punch a wall with a little strength.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
His feat was to set in motion the wiping out of everything along the DC universe timeline. His power proved to be the catalyst for that outcome, he applied his power to the end of time where the end meets the beginning, putting pressure on this loop.

http://img1.putfile.com/thumb/9/27209291091.jpg


Its like removing the keystone from a building causing the entire structure to come toppling down, killing everyone within. Did you physically punch down the structure and destroy everything within the building or did your actions merely set that outcome in motion?


See my point?

Cool


He never actually wiped out everything himself. Thats not as impressive as a number of Phoenixes feats.
Ok then show me a Phoenix feat above that

Originally posted by juggernaut66666
Ok then show me a Phoenix feat above that

Im waiting

Originally posted by R.O.T. Yahman
I agree, Extant was also needed to remove all the historic events from the Time line, and changing continuity is hardly difficult in the D.C. universe, usually all you need to do is punch a wall with a little strength.

Precisely

People here are simply ignoring Parallaxes crucial comment because it doesnt coincide with their fantasises about their fave character. We're hear to debate and learn the truth not promote lies.

Originally posted by juggernaut66666
Ok then show me a Phoenix feat above that

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Precisely

People here are simply ignoring Parallaxes crucial comment because it doesnt coincide with their fantasises about their fave character. We're hear to debate and learn the truth not promote lies.

Pharallax was easillyb beaten by Spectre, acting on hois own accord, and although he's powerful he' yet to show he can T.K. controll an entire universe.

Originally posted by juggernaut66666
Im waiting

Dont get cocky. I was posting in another thread.

Sorry to break it to you but I really dont live to converse with you

Ive stated a number of feats greater than Parallax exploiting a vulnerablility in the timeline with what power he does have and letting the ensuing conflagration do the work for him

Phoenix has telekinetically materialized the 616 universe into the white hot room atom by atom. That feat in itself sh*ts on manipulating the timeline of a reality.

Phoenix put a reality on its death bed by casually cutting off part of its timeline because it was an undesirable future. (I've heard of time manipulation but where have you ever heard or seen a entity actually cut time itself? )

Phoenix contained the multiversal power of the M'kraan crystal

All of those feats are beyond Parallax's.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Dont get cocky. I was posting in another thread.

Sorry to break it to you but I really dont live to converse with you

Ive stated a number of feats greater than Parallax exploiting a vulnerablility in the timeline with what power he does have and letting the ensuing conflagration do the work for him

Phoenix has telekinetically materialized the 616 universe into the white hot room atom by atom. That feat in itself sh*ts on manipulating the timeline of a reality.

Phoenix put a reality on its death bed by casually cutting off part of its timeline because it was an undesirable future. (I've heard of time manipulation but where have you ever heard or seen a entity actually cut time itself? )

Phoenix contained the multiversal power of the M'kraan crystal

All of those feats are beyond Parallax's.
yeah sure show me and the other guys some panel feats that are above parallax's until you show something you are alone with your opinion that phoenix wins

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Phoenix contained the multiversal power of the M'kraan crystal



When the Lattice of the Mkraan Crystal was REPAIRED by Phoenix, she NEEDED the rest of the X-Men to do it

http://img237.imageshack.us/img237/6239/p1ry7.th.jpg


Here Phoenix Tries to FIX the Lattice Alone

http://img163.imageshack.us/img163/5582/p2ci8.th.jpg


"But it's NOWHERE NEAR good enough"

and Phoenix does NOT "contain" the power of the N-Galaxy that does the destroying.

http://img349.imageshack.us/img349/3673/p3dr0.th.jpg

"a Network of interlocking Stasis Fields NEUTRALIZES the power of the N-Galaxy"....she was only able to knit the interlocking Stasis Fields back together


Actually Phoenix was getting ABSORBED by the N-Galaxy

http://img46.imageshack.us/img46/1362/p312cx5.th.jpg


With the Life-Force of ALL the X-Men she Anchors herself to Reality, to avoid being ABSORBED

http://img85.imageshack.us/img85/3395/p4mx6.th.jpg


"the Patterns of her life of the X-Men's LIVES, BECOME ONE with the Lattice"

http://img230.imageshack.us/img230/3687/p5ic2.th.jpg


"For ALL Her awesome Power, She CAN'T DO IT ALONE"

http://img522.imageshack.us/img522/4925/p6ja8.th.jpg

ALL the X-Men gave their LIFE-FORCE to help REPAIR the Lattice.


"The POWER of Her Friends Sing WITHIN Her, as she reenergizes the Lattice"

http://img230.imageshack.us/img230/1248/p7mg7.th.jpg


After the job is done, Even with the HELP of ALL the X-Men, Phoenix FALLS UNCONSCIOUS from Exhaustion

http://img105.imageshack.us/img105/9605/p8gv3.th.jpg

Originally posted by GalacticStorm


Phoenix has telekinetically materialized the 616 universe into the white hot room atom by atom. That feat in itself sh*ts on manipulating the timeline of a reality.

Phoenix put a reality on its death bed by casually cutting off part of its timeline because it was an undesirable future. (I've heard of time manipulation but where have you ever heard or seen a entity actually cut time itself? )

Agreed entirely, i've seen the scans and although im note entirely sure which story that they are taken from. I must remind everyone, that the Phoenix depicted by Morisson and Endsong did not nearly seem this powerful, and was very limited.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Phoenix contained the multiversal power of the M'kraan crystal
All of those feats are beyond Parallax's.

I disagree that this feat is that spectacular, except from ypure bizarre persepctive G.S..

Originally posted by juggernaut66666
yeah sure show me and the other guys some panel feats that are above parallax's until you show something you are alone with your opinion that phoenix wins Originally posted by Mr Master
When the Lattice of the Mkraan Crystal was REPAIRED by Phoenix, she NEEDED the rest of the X-Men to do it

http://img237.imageshack.us/img237/6239/p1ry7.th.jpg


Here Phoenix Tries to FIX the Lattice Alone

http://img163.imageshack.us/img163/5582/p2ci8.th.jpg


"But it's NOWHERE NEAR good enough" and Phoenix does NOT "contain" the power of the N-Galaxy that does the destroying.

http://img349.imageshack.us/img349/3673/p3dr0.th.jpg

"a Network of interlocking Stasis Fields NEUTRALIZES the power of the N-Galaxy"


Actually Phoenix was getting ABSORBED by the N-Galaxy

http://img46.imageshack.us/img46/1362/p312cx5.th.jpg


With the Life-Force of ALL the X-Men she Anchors herself to Reality, to avoid being ABSORBED

http://img85.imageshack.us/img85/3395/p4mx6.th.jpg


"the Patterns of her life of the X-Men's LIVES, BECOME ONE with the Lattice"

http://img230.imageshack.us/img230/3687/p5ic2.th.jpg


"For ALL Her awesome Power, She CAN'T DO IT ALONE"

http://img522.imageshack.us/img522/4925/p6ja8.th.jpg

ALL the X-Men gave their LIFE-FORCE to help REPAIR the Lattice.


"The POWER of Her Friends Sing WITHIN Her, as she reenergizes the Lattice"

http://img230.imageshack.us/img230/1248/p7mg7.th.jpg


After the job is done, Even with the HELP of ALL the X-Men, Phoenix FALLS UNCONSCIOUS from Exhaustion

http://img105.imageshack.us/img105/9605/p8gv3.th.jpg

Originally posted by juggernaut66666
yeah sure show me and the other guys some panel feats that are above parallax's until you show something you are alone with your opinion that phoenix wins

The scans relating to those feats ive referenced have been posted time and time again. Everyones seen them.

All of those feat are beyond Parallax SETTING OFF a universal wipe out. He was the catalyst for it, which isnt impressive.

Originally posted by juggernaut66666


As stated by Mr Master, im sure the X-men's involvement was more of a mental boost rather one of power. I mean what significant impact could they make, really ?

Originally posted by R.O.T. Yahman
As stated by Mr Master, im sure the X-men's involvement was more of a mental boost rather one of power. I mean what significant impact could they make, really ?

Precisely!!!

Which is why i replied with:

Mr Master are that group of X-men major cosmic powers?

Could any of them destroy or take over a continent let alone a planet?

So with that in mind who do you think was doing the lionshare of the work? Given that that the crystal in continuity has multiversal status is your point not somewhat redundant?

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
The scans relating to those feats ive referenced have been posted time and time again. Everyones seen them.

All of those feat are beyond Parallax SETTING OFF a universal wipe out. He was the catalyst for it, which isnt impressive.
I haven't seen them Can you show them to me or a link to them???

Originally posted by R.O.T. Yahman
Agreed entirely, i've seen the scans and although im note entirely sure which story that they are taken from. I must remind everyone, that the Phoenix depicted by Morisson and Endsong did not nearly seem this powerful, and was very limited.

Theyre taken from Morrissons interpretation of Phoenix lol. New X-men 154



Originally posted by R.O.T. Yahman
I disagree that this feat is that spectacular, except from ypure bizarre persepctive G.S..

No? How so? Shes binding a multiversal power, hers is the only thing preventing multiversal annihilation.

Originally posted by R.O.T. Yahman
As stated by Mr Master, im sure the X-men's involvement was more of a mental boost rather one of power. I mean what significant impact could they make, really ?

Actually Phoenix Did NEED the Power of the rest of the X-Men

http://img46.imageshack.us/img46/1362/p312cx5.th.jpg

She didn't have the strength to do it alone.


"For ALL Her awesome Power, She CAN'T DO IT ALONE"

http://img522.imageshack.us/img522/4925/p6ja8.th.jpg

ALL the X-Men gave their LIFE-FORCE to help REPAIR the Lattice.


"The POWER of Her Friends Sing WITHIN Her, as she reenergizes the Lattice"

http://img230.imageshack.us/img230/1248/p7mg7.th.jpg

Originally posted by juggernaut66666
I haven't seen them Can you show them to me or a link to them???

Originally posted by Mr Master
Actually Phoenix Did NEED the Power of the rest of the X-Men

http://img46.imageshack.us/img46/1362/p312cx5.th.jpg

She didn't have the strength to do it alone.


"For ALL Her awesome Power, She CAN'T DO IT ALONE"

http://img522.imageshack.us/img522/4925/p6ja8.th.jpg

ALL the X-Men gave their LIFE-FORCE to help REPAIR the Lattice.


"The POWER of Her Friends Sing WITHIN Her, as she reenergizes the Lattice"

http://img230.imageshack.us/img230/1248/p7mg7.th.jpg

Ohhhhh look who it is, 'I take everything written in a comic literal, no matter how retarded'. You must respect the comic Authority !!!!!!!!

The scans do not dissprove my point !