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It would have been great if we saw more of vader in EP 3 coz we only see the mask going on . I mean what about the arms legs in more detail.

It should have been longer but it was iconic

ye it was very good, but the movie weren't about him in the suit, but hopefully we shall see more of it in the TV Show

well i really hope so lol

Originally posted by aj_vader
ye it was very good, but the movie weren't about him in the suit, but hopefully we shall see more of it in the TV Show

well i really hope so lol

theres a tv show coming out???

Thats the main reasion this film is better then the first 2

We see enough. Why is everyone so set in getting all these details? It makes a film boring.

not really

Yes it does. Exposition kills a movie.

And then Anakin walked to the door. Anakin opened the door. Anakin died.

What door?

yes theres a TV show next year

I have a question? Does anyone think that the reason that darth Vada never really becomes most powerful Jedi/Sith is due to the fact he is basicly only half a man? I ask this as the Emperor is conviced he is gonna become more powerful than him, but after 20ish years he never does.

Im sure there are reasons behind this and people have probably answered this question before, but I havent read them answers

It's one of the gaps... It's ironic that Anakin takes about 25 years to get some decent position in the Empire. In ANH he is still under Tarkin.

You could explain this by saying that Naakin's confidence and drive was diminished. He likely still had the ability, just not the motivation to amass that sort of power.

Its kind of like the mothers that can lift up cars when thier kid it trapped underneath. The power is always there, its just a matter of finding where it is and unleashing it.

Anakin simply stopped caring and lost his independance.

Originally posted by queeq
It's one of the gaps... It's ironic that Anakin takes about 25 years to get some decent position in the Empire. In ANH he is still under Tarkin. See this is what happens when yu make prequels and dont think about all that goes with it

I thot it was because the emperor did have some kind of a control over vader thru the suit. Anakin became handicaped and was dependent on the suit for his existance. Ironically that is his weakness per se.

Vader did say, " I MUST obey my master". I think there must be a reason for the emphasis for the "must", coming from someone who once said he would overthrow the emperor.

Vader has been reduced in power, both physically and speaking in terms of the Force, after what occured during his duel with Kenobi.

I dont buy that argument. If force actually come from midichlorions, were looking at midicholorion density (its not number of midicholorions as that means bigger people would be stronger in the force....Yoda)

If you lose some limbs, thats not going to change the density in your blood. (Unless his blood was diluted with some sort of synthetic chemical) Hence, Anakins physical capability was not altered.

The change in his power came form an internal issue...a will issue. He is no longer independant. He was crushed.

What change? In ESB he rules supreme and even plots to take over the Empire, for crying out loud. No peeps, this is a major plot hole.

Originally posted by queeq
What change? In ESB he rules supreme and even plots to take over the Empire, for crying out loud. No peeps, this is a major plot hole. He also make that comment to Pad doesnt he before he goes all pissed at her. He had always desired to have a galaxy that would be free and just for everyone. Though that goes a bit crapy, that was his desire in ep2/3.

Theres just no real continuity in the whole thing, as Ana he wanted to over though Emp with Pad and he wantd to do the same in ESB. But in ANH hes a lap dog and so is he in ROTJ in truth. I dont believe that the Emp had any real control over him, so why in 20years has he nevr killed him in his sleep or just slapped the git around a bit

Well, the fact that he turns into a lap dog in ROTJ I kinda like... it shows the power of the Emperor. But why Vader takes a lot of shit from Tarkin is beyond me. He appears lower in position than any of the Sith Lords before him... even after 20 years of loyal and brutal service.

Chain of command?

But it still doesn't make secks.

Originally posted by queeq


Well, the fact that he turns into a lap dog in ROTJ I kinda like... it shows the power of the Emperor. But why Vader takes a lot of shit from Tarkin is beyond me. He appears lower in position than any of the Sith Lords before him... even after 20 years of loyal and brutal service. True he almost seems a bit of a laughing stock in the empire, come on would anyone have a dig at a sith lord in the pt's?

Originally posted by Alliance
Chain of command?

But it still doesn't make secks. Yet how does the chain go sith master to general to darth?

As I said, it doesn't make secks.

Leia ot Tarkin: "I should have expected you to be holding Vader's leash." Perhaps Tarkin just has that type of personality...someone Anakin respects. Tarkin is an administratior. I consider Vader more like a General...more in charge of the enforcement.

Anyway, there's a 19 year gap. Tarkin was in the service of the Republic, so there's lots of room for things to happen.

Originally posted by Alliance
As I said, it doesn't make secks.

Leia ot Tarkin: "I should have expected you to be holding Vader's leash." Perhaps Tarkin just has that type of personality...someone Anakin respects. Tarkin is an administratior. I consider Vader more like a General...more in charge of the enforcement.

Anyway, there's a 19 year gap. Tarkin was in the service of the Republic, so there's lots of room for things to happen. Sounds like more bondage to me, maybe GL shouldnt of left such a gap without any really explanation

Lucas is not really knows for making complete sense.

Originally posted by Revan Souer
Sounds like more bondage to me, maybe GL shouldnt of left such a gap without any really explanation

Revan really likes the bondage elements of SW...

Originally posted by queeq
Revan really likes the bondage elements of SW... Yeah sorry

Hehehehe

If only they had Light wipes, that would be perfect

I get the impression that Vader was only able to have full power because Tarkin was killed in the Death Star. Imagine if he was not killed, we would still see Vader subordinated to Tarkin. So much for ruling the galaxy.

Even my little sister when watching ANH said, "how come Vader seem to be afraid of that guy (Tarkin)?"

Yup... why was that? That is an oddity now. The PT created a lot of those oddities.

Originally posted by queeq
Revan really likes the bondage elements of SW...

Well hell, vader is in a giant leather suit. Leia in the chined metal bikini. Little Kenobi spinning around on Geonosis.

ROOOOOAAAARRRR...

Are you going throguh puberty again?

Originally posted by Alliance
Well hell, vader is in a giant leather suit. Leia in the chined metal bikini. Little Kenobi spinning around on Geonosis. That brings me to a question how the hell can they get that leather outfit on him if they strap him down. Ive tried it myself and just cant do it

As for the Leia bikini never been a big fan, I prefered the white no bra outfit mmmmmmmm

You like men dressed in leather, you try to dress yourself up in leather lying down... no wonder you don't like the golden bikini...

Originally posted by queeq
You like men dressed in leather, you try to dress yourself up in leather lying down... no wonder you don't like the golden bikini... O dont like men in leather, just wondered

Suuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuure...

Originally posted by queeq
Suuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuure... thats it you caught me Im into men in eather who like heavy breathing, now can we go back to the matter at hand

Which, getting back on topic, is about Vader being under "Tarkin's leash".

I suspect that this mostly has to do with vader.

He's burned, scarred, not physically what he was. He's lost his wife, his kid(s), and he hasn't grown in the Force.

He is responsible for the deaths of all the Jedi, and wishes he hadn't done it. He clings on to his anger and hate, but in a hollow, depressed way.


I think the reason that he comes alive in ESB is mostly due to the fact that he knows Luke is alive.

He's got his son back, part of Padme, part of him. It's like the fire that was laying dormant was stoked, and he goes off.


Plus, the Death Star project was Tarkin's baby, and so while Vader didn't take any shit from the other generals, he would still be under Tarkin's command.

Plus, he argues with him anyway: "I told you she would never conciously betray the rebellion."

"I must face him... alone!"


I always felt that they were equals, they were just on Tarkin's turf.

Perhaps... but it still feels like Vader has a superior after 20 years. And then suddenly he's the head honco after the emperor.

Vader probably spent 19 years whining.

TOSHI STATION!!!!!

Originally posted by sithsaber408


I think the reason that he comes alive in ESB is mostly due to the fact that he knows Luke is alive.



Hmm very possible. Even the emperor was surprised by vader's new zeal. I guess he got back on track starting from obi-wan's return. Kinda re-ignited his old quest for power. The emperor couls sense vader's sudden unbecoming enthusiast, in RotJ, he ask of him whether his "mind is clear on the matter" when vader said he sensed luke, but palpy did not.

Maybe... still, if that means Vader became this obedient lapdog after ROTS... that'd kinda disappoint me and make him quite pathetic. And I'd hate that.

The problem is and always will be that they were written out of order and GL just ****ed up bid time trying to make them link together. Which in some ways he did but in others he soooo didnt.

He would of been better of writting three sequels ans prequels always end bad, in the fake they just dont work. As they look better though they are set before the OT and he had to do them in three films when maybe he needed four to make them work properly.

Perhaps, but linking them up shouldn't have been so difficult. I think the choice for explaining how Palpy came to power and use that as background for the Anakin story is not a wise one. Political topics are only good in films like JF, Nixon, all the president's men etc... but that is not LUcas's field of expertise. He should have stayed away from it and kept it simple. That way they would at least have been room for Anakin to be a genuine hero we could all cheer for and the "great friend" that OB1 mentioned in ANH.

But the politics added so much to the story. I'm serious.

Agree. While illuminating, it actually confuses confuses some people. Though i must admit the deep sense of mystery surrounding the plot of AoTC that makes me attracted to it initially.

I jsut have a problem with Lucas' poor handling of the politics. THAT is why people got confused.

That is it though. Lucas handles it poorly, so he shouldn't have ventured there, stayed a way from it and tell the story with the background that the series title implies: Star WARS! Not "Star Politics".

Aren't wars part of politics?

Aren't politics part of wars?

They are, but the boring part.

Originally posted by queeq
Maybe... still, if that means Vader became this obedient lapdog after ROTS... that'd kinda disappoint me and make him quite pathetic. And I'd hate that.

Vader always was his obedient lap-dog.

Kinda part of the whole master-aprentice relationship.

He kills many Jedi, including children, becuase Palpatine tells him to.
He kills the seperatist leaders, because Palpatine tells him to.

"I will do anything that you ask"
"I pledge myself to your teachings."


He was doing these things in order to get the power of saving Padme, thinking that he could overthrow Sidious later on.

Two things happened:

1.) He is injured horribly and loses much of his fighting skills.
2.) His wife and child are killed.

This removes pretty much all ambitions that he would have had.

He is no longer the most-powerfull-Jedi-ever, up and coming in his abilities.....

he is bleak, despondent, angry yes but not at palps, and simply....PWNT.


The fact that Sidious WAS his master, and the fact that he quite literally lost everything, explains his position in EPIV.

As I said before, I feel that he was more of Tarkin's equal, they were just on Tarkins turf, his death star pet-project.

He sure doesn't take any shit from any of the other generals.


He just has no reason to overthrow the Emporer any more.

You or I might not have responded that way, but Anakin's always been a little emontionaly soft, somewhat of an emo.


Seriously, once he knows that Luke is alive (I agree with cybervader, that seeing Obi-wan again is what sparked it off) he's on fire.

Now he has something to live for again, somebody to convince of ruling the galaxy with him, and (same as the Emporer saw) somebody who could have the Force ability and physical skills developed in him to be what Anakin should have become.



It's a stretch, but for me, ... not too far.

I buy it.

No no, I get it. It makes sense. But then I wonder why the hell Anakin is such a great character to make a six-part saga about. He's a wuss, a weenie, a tragic but unsympathetic character who has one good movie (ESB)...

Originally posted by queeq
No no, I get it. It makes sense. But then I wonder why the hell Anakin is such a great character to make a six-part saga about. He's a wuss, a weenie, a tragic but unsympathetic character who has one good movie (ESB)... Dont diss ROTJ the ending where he throws the Emp is great.

Have to agree with you on that if GL couldnt write the politic well he should of tried and stayed away from it.

Just a litttle point, if I lost my wife and children I would make evryone pay andnot turn into a leather clad ***** for 20years, sorry but its true.

Originally posted by queeq
No no, I get it. It makes sense. But then I wonder why the hell Anakin is such a great character to make a six-part saga about. He's a wuss, a weenie, a tragic but unsympathetic character who has one good movie (ESB)...

Yeah. Its kind of like how i wonder why people who think the darkside is a wrong answer and unbalanced support it in their "Location"

Errr... yeah.

Revan, yeah that kinda is my problem. What happened to Anakin? So yeah, maybe he died and became Darth Vader. But then I must conclude Vader's an empty shell. Somehow I am beginning to wonder of Lucas just didn't totally trash the greatest movie villain into a pathetic guard dog... In that case I prefer Maul.

I've been discussing Sw for well over7 years now, and for some reason I cannot remember the OT having such serious character problems when thinking things through. Yoda and Mace sure deminished the glamour of the Jedi. Mace Alliance already discussed quite intensively ( ), but I was thinking about Yoda and OB1 the other day. That scene with the kids in AOTC... what the hell was that about? These great and powerful Jedi need kids to state the blatant obvious that a planet has been erased from the Jedi files??? That is like... DUHHH.... hello?! Are you the great Jedi Masters? Anybody home???

I can discuss Yoda and Kenobi too

I bet you can. Okay, let's hear it.

erm...maybe later.

Why?

Can sometell me did the empiror know darth will injure himeself at the end of ep 3 ??

The empiror said 'He is still alive ' in EP 3

All he knew was that Anakin was in trouble.

I thought Darth Vader had an oxygen tank inside him lolz

THat would mean he'd be highly combustible....

If only Luke had known...

*pew*


*death star explosion*

Exactly, no need to trash the dish on the Falcon anymore.

Haha...stupid dish.

Who the hell puts a dish there?

YOu think after all the years of outrunning imperials ships...solo woudl have modded the falcon enough to make it a bit more combat ready.

Maybe the shields were strong enough to protect the dish.

I doubt it. They lost their shilds in ESB. Maybe if they used their shield sto protect the hull instead of the effing dish they would have lasted longer.

I bet they can do both at the same time. Even without the dish shields can be lost, tehy're just energy fields, energy can drain.

Energy over a large area is less concentrated, therefore easier to break through.

THat was a BIG dish.

And why does it snap off like chopsticks?

BIG dish????? Not in comparison to the whole ship.

Why...with all the technology of SW...cant they make a little dish?

It was pretty small.

It was a BIG dish!

No, it was small in comparison to the size of the ship.

It was tall.

Does it matter how big or small it is ?

For women it is... or were you talking about something else.... ??

Your's is dish shaped?

Errr..... looks like he doesn't get it.

Ok.

Not OK..

<<< Hardass.

Oh yeah...

Aham i was on about sw

So were we.

Darht vader was born. In full armor....like Athena.

Hehehe... that's a nice comparison... although not true. Vader was born on the floor of the Chancellor's office...

Next to the Chancellors kegs.

Yes, those lovely kegs.

There were three.

Arrrr... arrr..... Palpy's a pirate.

I'm sure Palps can do better than rum.

Pieces of eight?

Not very drinkable and it'd be a shame to liquify those.

Oh?

Yes. (ref. Cortez)

Cortez'd know.