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this is the big one

Spider-man vs Superman

This is not a fight i repeat this is not a fight this is to determan who is the better character bigger icon and who has proven to be more importaint and more progressive to comics since their creation both of these flagship characters represent everything their compines worked to perfect for the past 50+ years so who's come out on top?

Just out of curiosity...

If this is Icon Battle 3, what were the last two?

Superman is more of an iconic figure IMO. Spidey gets the little kids tho.
They're both too great characters it is hard to decide who is better.

Originally posted by SpunkySmurph
Just out of curiosity...

If this is Icon Battle 3, what were the last two?

1 was ww and hulk

and 2 was batman and wolverine

Originally posted by Darth Martin
Superman is more of an iconic figure IMO. Spidey gets the little kids tho.
They're both too great characters it is hard to decide who is better.

true and false at the same time yes sups will always be iconic he's pretty much concidered to be the first super hero and because of that he will always edge in ahead of any other hero, but ever since spidy came along it's been close between the 2, i did a random pole once a long time ago and people would rather be spidy than sups purely because we can all relate to him more, he has superpowers but goes through the exact same things we do he's the everyman hero and right now he's argueably the most popular hero in the world

Originally posted by lando005
true and false at the same time yes sups will always be iconic he's pretty much concidered to be the first super hero and because of that he will always edge in ahead of any other hero, but ever since spidy came along it's been close between the 2, i did a random pole once a long time ago and people would rather be spidy than sups purely because we can all relate to him more, he has superpowers but goes through the exact same things we do he's the everyman hero and right now he's argueably the most popular hero in the world

Everyone knows Superman. There's a friggin' statue of him in the United Nations Building. Spider-Man will never have the iconism nor popularity that Superman has. Superman as an icon is as eternal as Robin Hood, Merlin and Jesus Christ.

Spider-Man's popularity is solely limited to one or two generations. Superman expands to all generations.

No comic book character will ever compare to Superman in terms of iconism, popularity or reverance....

Originally posted by Draco69
Everyone knows Superman. There's a friggin' statue of him in the United Nations Building. Spider-Man will never have the iconism nor popularity that Superman has. Superman as an icon is as eternal as Robin Hood, Merlin and Jesus Christ.

Spider-Man's popularity is solely limited to one or two generations. Superman expands to all generations.

No comic book character will ever compare to Superman in terms of iconism, popularity or reverance....

your right everyone knows superman your right about that much he's the grandfather of superheroes nobody's knocking that, but spiderman IS and always WILL be the everyday hero superman has always stood above the crowds with his lager than life image but spider-man has always been just an ordinary guy like the rest of us that's what made him so popular in his 40+ year history the fact that he's no diffrent than you or me any one of us with the same morals can wear his costusme while superman's be elevated to the statis of some sort of superhero god that diffrence the ability to connect with the common man is what i belive makes spidy a bit more poplular than sups

Originally posted by lando005
your right everyone knows superman your right about that much he's the grandfather of superheroes nobody's knocking that, but spiderman IS and always WILL be the everyday hero superman has always stood above the crowds with his lager than life image but spider-man has always been just an ordinary guy like the rest of us that's what made him so popular in his 40+ year history the fact that he's no diffrent than you or me any one of us with the same morals can wear his costusme while superman's be elevated to the statis of some sort of superhero god that diffrence the ability to connect with the common man is what i belive makes spidy a bit more poplular than sups

Spider-Man isn't more popular than Superman. You're basing your assumptions of Spider-Man's popularity on Western percepton. People in China hate Spider-Man. So do people in Thailand. That's several hundred million people right there. Why? Cultural differences. Spider-Man is a popular Western hero because he's an everyday New Yorker. But Superman's ideals are universal. He's a godlike persona who only wishes to help people and save people.

Superman is not a comic book icon. Spider-Man is a comic book icon. Superman is A icon. A persona who's popularity has inspired democracy, freedom and his the figurehead for many non-profit organizations. Superman is so popular that he's second to friggin Jesus Christ on the Time Magazine's most recognizable names.

SECOND to friggin Jesus Christ. That's how popular the guy is. The United Nations has a statue in the lobby commerating him. Superman is so blasted popular, the city of Metropolis in Ohio spends billions of dollars for a parade honoring him.

Superman is nearly a religous figure. Spider-Man is just a comic bookc character to people. And that's all he'll ever be....

Originally posted by lando005
1 was ww and hulk

and 2 was batman and wolverine

WTF are you serious? Such BS

Originally posted by bean_machine
WTF are you serious? Such BS

No, it's not.

I was actually hoping those were the former matches.
Especially Bats vs. Wolvy

Originally posted by Draco69
Spider-Man isn't more popular than Superman. You're basing your assumptions of Spider-Man's popularity on Western percepton. People in China hate Spider-Man. So do people in Thailand. That's several hundred million people right there. Why? Cultural differences. Spider-Man is a popular Western hero because he's an everyday New Yorker. But Superman's ideals are universal. He's a godlike persona who only wishes to help people and save people.

Superman is not a comic book icon. Spider-Man is a comic book icon. Superman is A icon. A persona who's popularity has inspired democracy, freedom and his the figurehead for many non-profit organizations. Superman is so popular that he's second to friggin Jesus Christ on the Time Magazine's most recognizable names.

SECOND to friggin Jesus Christ. That's how popular the guy is. The United Nations has a statue in the lobby commerating him. Superman is so blasted popular, the city of Metropolis in Ohio spends billions of dollars for a parade honoring him.

Superman is nearly a religous figure. Spider-Man is just a comic bookc character to people. And that's all he'll ever be....
i already said superman is the more iconic figure, he's not the onlyone who only wishes to help people, yes there are places where siperman isnt liked the same can be said of sups superman is an idea a hope that somebody will come and save the day and make things better, spider-man repersents an ideal that people can make a diffrence if you have the power to do something why not put it to good use both these characters represent this but they do it from 2 diffrent positions in socity, superman sits above the people he always has and always will sit above the people who idolize him spider-man IS one of us an average guy just trying to do what's right superman cant connect to people like that in a way the 2 heros work together very well the consept of spidy reaches to the people the idea of sups doesnt this makes spidy a bit more than just a comic book character

Whos a bigger Icon? superman, by far.


that statue, do you have an image of it?

Superman is the bigger icon, no doubt. But Spiderman is more popular these days. U.S aside, Superman isn't really all that popular, just extremely recognizable. Hell, there are dozens of countries where they don't even sell Superman comics anymore. Unlike Spiderman comics, which are still going strong everywhere.

Originally posted by lando005
i already said superman is the more iconic figure, he's not the onlyone who only wishes to help people, yes there are places where siperman isnt liked the same can be said of sups superman is an idea a hope that somebody will come and save the day and make things better, spider-man repersents an ideal that people can make a diffrence if you have the power to do something why not put it to good use both these characters represent this but they do it from 2 diffrent positions in socity, superman sits above the people he always has and always will sit above the people who idolize him spider-man IS one of us an average guy just trying to do what's right superman cant connect to people like that in a way the 2 heros work together very well the consept of spidy reaches to the people the idea of sups doesnt this makes spidy a bit more than just a comic book character

Spider-Man is just a comic-book character. A popular figure in pop culture. That's it. People only know him because of the success of his movies.

You're arguing which character is better in regardance to character. Which is debatable due to preferences.

But Superman is simply the more favored, the more revered and the very eptiome of what humanity could hope to be.

When 9/11 happened, who did people turn to? Spider-Man or Superman? Superman. Superman and American Flags were literaly synomonous when 9/11 happened. Superman isn't about connecting with everyday man. He's about inspiring hope for the future. That everything is going to be all right. Spider-Man doesn't hold an eighth of an ounce of the inspiration Superman causes around the world. In third-world countries, people revere Superman as a savior and angel that will save them from their sorrows. In Iraq and Israel, soldiers were military-sanctioned S-Shields on their uniforms as a sign of hope.

Superman inspires. Spider-Man doesn't. In some military units, it's REQUIRED to have a Superman tattoo on your shoulder. That's how much heroism he inspires. Spider-Man will never have that.

He's a pop culture figure that's just became popular when the movies came out. He's colol and modern. He's a fun character to watch. That's it.

Until he gets a statue in Washington, Spider-Man will never usurp Supes' place as the icon and the most revered comic book character in the world and history...

Originally posted by Dinalfos
Superman is the bigger icon, no doubt. But Spiderman is more popular these days. U.S aside, Superman isn't really all that popular, just extremely recognizable. Hell, there are dozens of countries where they don't even sell Superman comics anymore. Unlike Spiderman comics, which are still going strong everywhere.

Superman isn't a comic book character around the world. As you said, he's an icon. His comics don't sell...but the dozens of non-profit organizations that feature his name and his shield do.

MILLIONS of firms have to dish out cash to DC to respect the copyright llaws. Superman is more profitable and populat than Spider-Man's comics.

The Ohio Metropolis parade alone rakes in more money a year for Superman than Spider-Man 1 AND 2 combined.....

I think while Supes is more iconic in the full-time heroic way, but I believe Spiderman to be more iconic overall. Superman reaches out to being a hero and for doing things the American way. Spiderman shows everyone the right to do something and being able to stand up for yourself and others. People learn moral things from him and use him as a family figure. Spiderman isn't just some guy in a suit, but a way of being and a character anyone can look up to. Supes takes flight in our darkest hour, while Spiderman reaches down to save us, no matter the cost to himself or the villain. I remember once reading an article about a young kid who was very sick, and his major wish was to see his role model: Spiderman. Pete teaches us a ton of things on what to do and how to be a better person. Spiderman ISN'T just some fad. He's webbed himself into our hearts, and he isn't coming out.

Spiderman takes this.

Originally posted by Ultraman Baltan
I think while Supes is more iconic in the full-time heroic way, I believe Spiderman to be a bit more iconic. Superman reaches out to being a hero and for doing things the American way. Spiderman shows everyone the right to do something and being able to stand up for yourself and others. People learn moral things from him and use him as a family figure. Spiderman isn't just some guy in a suit, but a way of being and a character anyone can look up to. Supes takes flight in our darkest hour, while Spiderman reaches down to save us, no matter the cost to himself or the villain. I remember once reading an article about a young kid who was very sick, and his major wish was to see his role model: Spiderman. Pete teaches us a ton of things on what to do and how to be a better person. Spiderman ISN'T just some fad. He's webbed himself into our hearts, and he isn't coming out.

Spiderman takes this.

That's because we're comic fans. Peter Parker was geek back then who became a hero.

Superman? He's an icon to EVERYONE regardless of race, origin, country, ethnicity, sexuality, gender and religion.

That's great for the kid.....but Superman has a friggin HOSPITAL named after him in South Africa where they treat AIDS patients...



Anywho who thinks that Spider-Man is ANYWHERE near the iconism of Superman is friggin' kidding themselves.

It's like saying Scientology is more popular than Christianity....

Originally posted by Draco69
Superman isn't a comic book character around the world. As you said, he's an icon. His comics don't sell...but the dozens of non-profit organizations that feature his name and his shield do.

MILLIONS of firms have to dish out cash to DC to respect the copyright llaws. Superman is more profitable and populat than Spider-Man's comics.

The Ohio Metropolis parade alone rakes in more money a year for Superman than Spider-Man 1 AND 2 combined.....

Yes, but Superman is first and foremost a comic book character. And in that respect, he's not quite where Spiderman is right now. People worldwide know Superman, but they don't really know(nor care) who or what he is. Except that he's a man with a cape and a symbol on his chest. We've come to a point where the brand name has surpassed the actual character in terms of popularity.

So I honestly believe you're overestimating the impact he made. He's recognized, he's frequently referenced. That's it. I agree that Spiderman is purely an icon of pop culture, whereas Superman has transcended that. But mostly the name, not the character.

Originally posted by Draco69
That's because we're comic fans. Peter Parker was geek back then who became a hero.

Superman? He's an icon to EVERYONE regardless of race, origin, country, ethnicity, sexuality, gender and religion.

That's great for the kid.....but Superman has a friggin HOSPITAL named after him in South Africa where they treat AIDS patients...



Anywho who thinks that Spider-Man is ANYWHERE near the iconism of Superman is friggin' kidding themselves.

It's like saying Scientology is more popular than Christianity....

You just ignored everything I said. People look up to Superman for a hero, but when they need a friend or an idol, they look for Spiderman. What you said about race and religion isn't true. They don't look up to him. They see him as a hero they can trust and can use to put in example of the AMERICAN way. Iranian aren't looking up to Supes. Canadians don't look up to Supes. Americans do. Comics just show that to give off a bigger effect. I have penpals all over the world that think Parker is the single greatest fictional character ever. Why? Because he gives them example. Superman just flies around and saves people. Spiderman allows people to learn and think, not just be saved and that's it. Spiderman is a friend to anyone and everyone who needs one. Superman is just a savior. He's liked for being able to save them. Spiderman is adored for being a hero to everyone.

Originally posted by Draco69
That's great for the kid.....but Superman has a friggin HOSPITAL named after him in South Africa where they treat AIDS patients...

So what? There's a toy in Japan called Superman with Spiderman's face on it. It's a cool name. Superman reaches to comic readers. My sister loves Spiderman, yet never read the comics. Why? Because she knows how great of a character he is and how influential he is to anyone who needs it.

Originally posted by Dinalfos
Yes, but Superman is first and foremost a comic book character. And in that respect, he's not quite where Spiderman is right now. People worldwide know Superman, but they don't really know(nor care) who or what he is. Except that he's a man with a cape and a symbol on his chest. We've come to a point where the brand name has surpassed the actual character in terms of popularity.

Spider-Man is first and LASTLY a comic-book character. Superman's icon ism has transcended the mere realms of comic book character. Spider's stuck where he is. Superman is in the league of Jesus Christ and Buddha...

Everyone knows who Superman is and what he is about. A alien who came from Krypton to fight for truth and justice. Everyone knows his personality, his history, his name, where he's from, his girlfriend, his villain and even his friggin hometown. And regardless they love him for it.

Superman's origin unlike Spider-Man isn't a story. It's reached the level of a legend or a opus. Everyone in this damn country can recite Superman's origin and character by heart. More people know about his history and character than they do about the Old Testament.


Originally posted by Dinalfos
So I honestly believe you're overestimating the impact he made. He's recognized, he's frequently referenced. That's it. I agree that Spiderman is purely an icon of pop culture, whereas Superman has transcended that. But mostly the name, not the character.

Spider-Man is just a popular fad in society today that was until recently committed by comic book fans. He's popular because of his movies, games and toys. That's it. It'll die out until the next hip, "new" superhero comes along that represents their generations' cool.

Superman won't endure that.

Hell:

http://img.groundspeak.com/cache/log/d749c71a-f0c0-4770-9e62-a9c0e1ae63d7.jpg

Originally posted by Draco69
It's like saying Scientology is more popular than Christianity....

It is not at all like that, considering Spiderman gives people hope and lessons to be learned. People just depend on Superman for stuff.

Originally posted by Draco69
Spider-Man is first and LASTLY a comic-book character.

And Superman isn't. When's the last time you saw a man with an "S" logo and a red cape flying around saving people in the real world? Superman defined superhero. Spiderman redefined hero.

Originally posted by Ultraman Baltan
It is not at all like that, considering Spiderman gives people hope and lessons to be learned. People just depend on Superman for stuff.


Spider-Man does not give hope and confidence to the majority of the world.

People just like him swinging around. He may give YOU hope and confidence. But he sure as hell doesn't give hope to the people suffering n the Dafur genocide which by the way Superman is very popular over there because HE inspires hope, freedom and justice for all the atrocities they've endured. He's an mythical angel to them.

Spidey? People won't think of him when they really need inspiration.

Like 9/11. Who did people turn to? SUPERMAN. Not some cartoon character who shoots webs.

Superman is so revered, the ACTOR who played him is treated with reverance. Everyone was up in arms when he got crippled. Noone would give a sh*t about Tobey Maguire....

Originally posted by Draco69
Spider-Man does not give hope and confidence to the majority of the world.

People just like him swinging around. He may give YOU hope and confidence.

Along with almost everyone I know, even foreign penpals?

Originally posted by Ultraman Baltan
And Superman isn't. When's the last time you saw a man with an "S" logo and a red cape flying around saving people in the real world? Superman defined superhero. Spiderman redefined hero.

Superman has transcended the realm of comics. Spidey is still confined as a comic character.

Superman has become a metaphor, a religous figure, a theme, a ideology, a philosophy and yes an ICON all in one go.

Spider-Man will never, ever reach that level of reverance....

Originally posted by Ultraman Baltan
Along with almost everyone I know, even foreign penpals?

You're a comicbook fan and everyone you know is likely one too.

A starving African child who lost his mother to warfare and his father to AIDS doesn't seek inspiration from Spidey. He seeks it from Superman. That everything bad happening will stop. Because Superman will save him.

That's almost WORSHIP.



Did I mention the friggin' POPE has mentioned Superman in his speeches to the masses in Italy?

THE POPE....

Originally posted by Draco69
Superman has transcended the realm of comics. Spidey is still confined as a comic character.

Considering people I know adore him as a close friend that have never read a comic in their life? You seem to deny the fact that Spiderman is a hero for everyone. I knew someone who said that their friend actually STOPPED himself from doing something bad because he went back and thought about Spiderman's experience. There's ever a poster on this forum that used Spiderman as an example for her kid!

Originally posted by Ultraman Baltan
You just ignored everything I said. People look up to Superman for a hero, but when they need a friend or an idol, they look for Spiderman. What you said about race and religion isn't true. They don't look up to him. They see him as a hero they can trust and can use to put in example of the AMERICAN way. Iranian aren't looking up to Supes. Canadians don't look up to Supes. Americans do. Comics just show that to give off a bigger effect. I have penpals all over the world that think Parker is the single greatest fictional character ever. Why? Because he gives them example. Superman just flies around and saves people. Spiderman allows people to learn and think, not just be saved and that's it. Spiderman is a friend to anyone and everyone who needs one. Superman is just a savior. He's liked for being able to save them. Spiderman is adored for being a hero to everyone. X

You HONESTLY believe only Americans look up to Superman?

NO.

There are hundreds of organizations in Africa that give out Superman insignia and Superman dolls to children suffering from warfare, genocide and AIDS. They look up to Superman as a archtypical angel that will make everything all right. They clutch those Superman dolls in a way Christians clutch their crosses....

Your penpals are entitled to their opinion...but their opinion isn't the majority by any means whatsoever. To the world, Spider-Man is a comic book character. To the world, Superman takes on so many definitions and inspirations in the way the see him.

Superman is nearly a religious figure. The way he's perceived and the way he's likened to suggests an almost worship.

Spidey doesn't inpire to everyone in the world. Superman does.

Please, it's fine that you like Spidey and he inspires you but to suggest that Spider-Man inspries more than Superman across the world is just ludicrous. You know it. You just won't admit it.

Originally posted by Ultraman Baltan
Considering people I know adore him as a close friend that have never read a comic in their life? You seem to deny the fact that Spiderman is a hero for everyone. I knew someone who said that their friend actually STOPPED himself from doing something bad because he went back and thought about Spiderman's experience. There's ever a poster on this forum that used Spiderman as an example for her kid!

I've present evidence of UN statues, hospitals named after him, a parade held in his honor and the fact that the Pope has mentioned and likened him to Jesus Christ in several of his speeches and all you have is your penpals and a friend.

No contest.

Spider-Man is not a hero for everyone. Heroes get statues. Heroes get entire books written after him. Heroes get a mythology. Heroes get stuidied in college courses. Heroes have buildings named after them. Heroes are the figureheads of charities and peace organizations. Does Spidey have this. Absolutely not. And he never will....

Originally posted by Draco69
Spider-Man is first and LASTLY a comic-book character. Superman's icon ism has transcended the mere realms of comic book character. Spider's stuck where he is. Superman is in the league of Jesus Christ and Buddha...

Everyone knows who Superman is and what he is about. A alien who came from Krypton to fight for truth and justice. Everyone knows his personality, his history, his name, where he's from, his girlfriend, his villain and even his friggin hometown. And regardless they love him for it.

Superman's origin unlike Spider-Man isn't a story. It's reached the level of a legend or a opus. Everyone in this damn country can recite Superman's origin and character by heart. More people know about his history and character than they do about the Old Testament.

I'm sorry, but he's NOT in the leagues of Jesus Christ and Buddha. He's a comic book character with name recognition. He isn't any more iconic than, say, Ronald McDonald. I know the states are a somewhat different story. Superman originated there. But let's not make more out of him than he really is. When all is said and done, he is STILL a comic book character. Most people don't care as much as you'd like to believe.

And no, only comic book lovers know the story. As someone who has spend extensive time in various countries (including the U.S, of course), I can assure you that Superman's icon ism doesn't really extend beyond the most superficial basic knowledge. People may have heard of the name Lois Lane or the word Kryptonite, but they can't even place it for the most part. It doesn't mean anything.



That's where you're wrong. Spiderman has ALWAYS been popular. Always. The reason why the movies became such big hits is exactly BECAUSE of that popularity and name recognition. Calling Spiderman a fad is just wrong on so many levels. The movies may may not eventually lose their blockbuster appeal(like Superman!), but the character is here to stay. Period.

Do you have any sources for superman speech/superman tatoo requirements/superman hospitals/praying to superman???


Google search for me turns up nothing on those topics..

Just a few things to add :

Superman is one of those names that to me, simply mean "beyond human", and whether he be a god or an alien, he's something that we know is better than ourselves. I'd pray to superman over spiderman, just becuase i know he'll get better results. But i also pray to silver surfer over superman..so what does that mean ?


Spiderman : I'll admit you have to know his story or you'll think he's just some insect. Spiderman has that urban western feelings, whereas superman definately can be seen as a god-who-walks-the-earth.

as someone who served in the armed forces i can tell you that no unit i know of requires a superman tatoo... i can also tell you that the majority of presonel i worked with think that spider-man is the better inspriration to them, we all know superman like it was stated before he's as easily recognizable as mc donalds that's why he's known all over the world his name preceeds him, and no he's not loved everywhere he's loved in many places but not everywhere a good deal of places think of him as the enbody ment of american ideals, superman has always stood above the people as a near godlike idea your right about that but like all religion it's not an idea for everyone, spider-man has always been popular ever since the day of his creation you wanna know why? simple look in the mirror you are spiderman, i am spiderman we all are every single man woman and child on this earth can be a spider-man, unlike superman hw's depicted as never being wrong and above temtation and always being pefect, spider-man is flawed he's not above temtation he's not above wanting to lead a happy life, he's a man who will spend the rest of his life repenting for his sins we've been there with him for every single one of his choices he thinks the same way you and i do should he go out on a date or save a burning building and loose the girl he risk his life every single day for the most part superman never has to worry about being killed spidy does he's a man who goes out with no even a fraction of what sups has and faces the same challanges weather he's killed by a superpowerd villan or he slips up and is killed by a common thug the fact that he takes whatever little power he has and trys to make a diffence in the world makes a deeper impact than superman ever could superman is just that super but spider-man is a man and he's become a symbol almost an enbodyment of responsiblity the term great power great responsiblity is just as recongnized as that s on his chest, he shows us that even if you cant save the world you can still make a diffence if you try you dont have to have some godly otherworldy power to make a diffrence every time you or i have a choice to make to do the right thing or to turn your back we become spider-man

Peter Parker represents the underdog. He can be related to by people far and wide. Superman, as a character, will never reach that kind of personal relationship with the reader.

As far as I'm concerned, that trumps S shield any day of the week.

Looks like Spiderman wins.

seems that way

has anyone ever notice the connection between these 2? both flagship characters bot wear read and blue both initals are sm

Originally posted by lando005
has anyone ever notice the connection between these 2? both flagship characters bot wear read and blue both initals are sm

Only Spiderman's more iconic and sympolizes more than just a hero.

Originally posted by Ultraman Baltan
Only Spiderman's more iconic and sympolizes more than just a hero. suprised draco isnt jumping all over you saying spidy's only a comic book character and superman's a semi religious icon

Originally posted by lando005
suprised draco isnt jumping all over you saying spidy's only a comic book character and superman's a semi religious icon

I know. Spiderman is closer to real life than Superman. Until we see him as God, he is not what Draco says for him to be.

Originally posted by Ultraman Baltan
I know. Spiderman is closer to real life than Superman. Until we see him as God, he is not what Draco says for him to be.
he's reacting to it like this was the devince code of comics

Superman. People old and young know who Superman is. When you ask someone to describe how what a superhero is stereotypically, they come up with a guy in a cape, tight suit, a symbol on their chest, and big muscles.

Superman has done more for comicbooks than any hero ever; people all across the world recognize Superman. I have grandparents and great grandparents in Europe that have never read a comic book, but when I say something about a superhero, they go, "Oh? Oh! Like Superman!"

I like spiderman, much more than Superman in fact, but as far as an icon and what he has created, Superman takes this faster than a speeding bullet.

Draco just pwned all of you.

You can say Spider-man wins this battle simply because you like him more, but if you honestly say that he's more iconic all around the world, you're just lying to yourselves. NO OTHER comic character EVER will reach the status that Superman has. Spider-man, Batman, etc..... NO ONE. In a battle of iconisism, Superman trumps almost all (if not, ALL) literary characters in history. Superman ftw.

superman started comic superhero's basically, sooo...who do u think

Superman beats any superhero in a contest of popularity. Hell, the guy even made #1 on a list of the most famous fictional men (beating the likes of Sherlocke Holmes, James Bond, and Tarzan).

Spider-Man is popular. Superman practically has his own religion.

Love Spidey and all but this shouldn't even be a competition.

Originally posted by Validus
Love Spidey and all but this shouldn't even be a competition.


Now, if this was Wolverine vs. Superman, that would be more like it

I'd say Spidey is far more popular and recognizable then Wolverine. Wolverine is just famous on these boards as being lord of the fanboys.

Originally posted by SpunkySmurph
Now, if this was Wolverine vs. Superman, that would be more like it
Really, if we're discussing comic book icons, it's pretty much Superman and then everyone else. No other character is even close.

Originally posted by Validus
Really, if we're discussing comic book icons, it's pretty much Superman and then everyone else. No other character is even close.

Well, it's good to know people recognize sarcasm...

To my credit, this is a text based system.

Originally posted by Validus
To my credit, this is a text based system.

Fair enough

Let me correct that...

Well, it's good to know people recognize sarcasm over the internet...

Originally posted by Draco69
Spider-Man does not give hope and confidence to the majority of the world.

People just like him swinging around. He may give YOU hope and confidence. But he sure as hell doesn't give hope to the people suffering n the Dafur genocide which by the way Superman is very popular over there because HE inspires hope, freedom and justice for all the atrocities they've endured. He's an mythical angel to them.

Spidey? People won't think of him when they really need inspiration.

Like 9/11. Who did people turn to? SUPERMAN. Not some cartoon character who shoots webs.

Superman is so revered, the ACTOR who played him is treated with reverance. Everyone was up in arms when he got crippled. Noone would give a sh*t about Tobey Maguire.... That's not necessarily true. I didn't like those old Supes films @ all, but I still felt bad to know a human being had been paralyzed. The majority of this world(@ least the parts w/theatres ) you speak of lined up in droves to see Spidey's movies, not Supes. Where were China & Thailand then? They got theatres in China right? Not sure about Thailand. I don't really remember anybody thinking about any superheroes around 9-11. The heroes were the firefighters & cops. I saw alot of NYFD hats around that time. Not Supes. You got some kinda news article or something 'bout this? Wizard did a "greatest of all time" feature. Guess who won? I'll tell you this, it's not some guy flying around w/an S on his chest. It's the guy who does whatever a Spider can. Supes didn't even get second. That went to DCs real #1 guy. Bravo did a Ultimate Superhero feature. Who won? Chalk up another 1 for the guy w/radioactive blood. Supes somehow managed to get #2. Good for him, but that's the best he can hope for nowadays. Hell, I've heard actual creators talking about how they'd kill him off because he's too powerful not to be boring. Spidey IS definately more popular in the U.S. & that's supposed to be Supes' territory isn't it? These statues & stuff Supes has were made long ago by the generation that grew up on Supes. Supes came out @ a time when there weren't many other comic characters around & people needed a hero. Thus the standards were reeeealy low back then. Nowadays, outside of the people who read his books, nobody really gives a damn 'bout SupesOriginally posted by Ultraman Baltan
Superman defined superhero. Spiderman redefined hero. Truth.

Spiderman can't help but lose here.

But as someone who's read both, Spiderman is the favored of mine.

His life is shitty at any given time, but he still puts on the tights.

Ill add my 2 cents here.

Overall, Superman IS the # iconic superhero. I think Draco stated that hes used in metaphors and such in everyday life. EVERYONE knows who Superman is. Might not know the origin, powerset, secret identity or comic company, but people know the name Superman and that hes THE hero.

However, we have to all agree that within the last 15 years or so, Spiderman HAS been the most recognized hero out of the two. Mainly its because of the newer generation getting into the comics and catroons and most recently because of the movies that have been coming out. Same can be said with Wolverine and his rise of popularity.

With all that said, imo Superman is what a hero is and what people characterize as "The Hero". Hes the blueprint.

Edit: Hulk and Superman would have been a better match. Though Hulk would still lose.

I agree that Superman is a more important literary figure than Spiderman, but its another thing to say he's more popular than Spiderman and especially ludicrous to say that he's on par with Jesus and Buddha.

Superman is on par with the legend of Hercules at best in American literary history. Our generation and the baby boomer generation all know Superman. Do these people know who Superman is? Most likely not. They probably don't know he came from Krypton, although most of them will know the only thing that can hurt Superman is kryptonite. Do they know that kryptonite is a chunk of green rock? Most likely not. Most people might know that he is Clark Kent. Past that, he can fly and is strong and that's it. They know him like they know Bugs Bunny.

What about Spiderman? He is much more a contemporary pop culture figure than Superman is. Yet, the baby boomer generation does know of Spiderman. My parents are second generation immigrants who read no comics whatsoever and they still know who Spidey is and can recognize him. They do not know his origin, powers other than swinging nor his alterego. But by that same token, they also do not know who Clark Kent is.

I studied abroad in Korea and met with a lot of Korean, Japanese and Chinese nationals and European and Eastern European nationals at a Jesuit institution. They knew a lot more about Spiderman then Superman. Then again, Spiderman was fugging huge overseas despite what other people might say.

Superman is a part of the American consciousness as much as Lowman from Death of a Salesman is. Maybe moreso because he is a part of pop culture and not just literary culture. But to even mention him in the same sentence as Jesus is about as stupid as the Beatles' own 'Jesus' comment. Yes, Americans will think of kryptonite first when thinking of a metaphor for one's sole weakness, but Achilles' heel and Tao sayings are much more prevalent around the world. The symbol of Superman is iconic and easily recognizable, but if you asked somebody to draw it, they'd probably have no idea how to start or what colors there are in other parts of the world.

Superman is more deeply ingrained in American pop culture because he's had more exposure for a longer time. He's had a 20 year headstart in comic publications, movies and tv shows for years ahead of Spiderman. But lets not kid ourselves, the only reason people outside of the US know about Superman is because of the original Donner Superman film in '78. We didn't grow up at that time, but that was a huge big budget flick with state of the art special effects and a marquis cast. People shouldn't kid themsleves into thinking that Superman's popularity outside of the US has its source in his literary merit. Its all about that movie. The same will be said of Spiderman twenty years from now. You ask small five yr old kids on the street right now who they like better, Spidey or Superman and I guarantee they will say Spiderman because they're growing up with him as a big movie figure.

Spidey is more popular throughout the world. Superman is more recognized throughout the world. Its almost analagous to say that Spongebob is more popular in the US, but Bugs Bunny is more recognized in the US. Its all about media exposure and nothing to do with literary merit. Superman is a derivation of legendary Greek heroes and nothing more. Spiderman is a derivation of legendary Greek heroes, Greek tragedy and modern teen angst. I'd say Spidey's got more of a chance to last through the ages if media exposure continues. Otherwise, he'll fade like Superman has.

Just an interesting note.

Anybody watch the movie Hollywoodland? I dunno if this has been mentioned, but, in the movie, the guy playing Superman in the T.V. show killed himself in real life. Back then, only kids in America had a chance to see him. And they were devastated. In the movie, a kid nearly starts a house fire because he wants to burn his old SM costume.

Whether it's the same today? No, of course not. But then again, I don't think there would be that many firetrucks going out because Toby Maguire commited suicide. But, I could be wrong.

If Tobey Maguire killed himself, I'd totally set everyone else's house on fire. Believe it!!!!

Originally posted by brainchild81
If Tobey Maguire killed himself, I'd totally set everyone else's house on fire. Believe it!!!! Nice

Originally posted by batdude123
Draco just pwned all of you.

You can say Spider-man wins this battle simply because you like him more, but if you honestly say that he's more iconic all around the world, you're just lying to yourselves. NO OTHER comic character EVER will reach the status that Superman has. Spider-man, Batman, etc..... NO ONE. In a battle of iconisism, Superman trumps almost all (if not, ALL) literary characters in history. Superman ftw.
i think you guys might have misunderstood me..... i already stated that sups is the bigger icon but the reasons for that are pretty clear i said it before he's the grandfather of all superheroes nothing will ever change that for all good reasons he was the first and because he came first no one could ever replace him....

however while superman laid the foundation spider-man played a huge role in building heroes up to what they are now and days without him super heros would be shallow and 2 dimentional, he has consistantly proven to be the most progressive of all comic charaters, and also while superman is mearly recongnized as an idea about the same as micky mouse spiderman is someone we can all look to as an example. Why spidy over sups? superman is always portaided as being perfect and as such there are a lot of people in the world he cant relate to however spider-man is a flawed man just the same as us he's been popular and well beloved ever since his creation in 1962 for that very reason when we read his comics it became us in that costume something superman cant do to know that superheroes are just people too that's what spider-man brought to us risking his life every single day for the most part sups never has to worry about anything i'm pretty confident if the 2 would have been created at the same time spider-man would edgeout ahead of superman

Spiderman, Spiderman!!!

Superman.

The Superman "S" is the second most recognized symbol on the planet. Next to the Cross.

Superman's status as THE comic icon, is unrivaled. Period.

Originally posted by Juntai
Superman.

The Superman "S" is the second most recognized symbol on the planet. Next to the Cross.

Superman's status as THE comic icon, is unrivaled. Period.

But currently less famous.

You know, when I was a kid I never really ascocciated Superman with comics.

I mean, I knew that he was from there, but I never thought of him as a 'comic book character'. More of as just a superhero in general. Maybe I would think of the movies or show.

Originally posted by SpunkySmurph
You know, when I was a kid I never really ascocciated Superman with comics.

I mean, I knew that he was from there, but I never thought of him as a 'comic book character'. More of as just a superhero in general. Maybe I would think of the movies or show.

Thats exactly what I think of Superman.

Originally posted by lando005
i'm pretty confident if the 2 would have been created at the same time spider-man would edgeout ahead of superman Ditto. Hell, Cap Marvel (Shazaam) overtook Supes easily back then. DC had to sue so they could keep Supes alive. Spidey's a MUCH better character than Supes. & that "Everybody knows Supes" is false. I've asked kids about him and they said, "you mean Spider-Man?"

Originally posted by brainchild81
..."you mean Spider-Man?"

Woohoo.

superman with all due respect has become a 2d image spider-man has and always will be depth of character which is why i belive he's the better character

i think this debate will go on for quite a long time

just looking back over this and the pro superman group has yet to really talk about more than sups image with him being easy to reconginze and really havent gotten into superman as a character

Not much too him. Kinda 1 dimensional

In Illinois, there's a city called Metropolis, and they have a giant statue of superman statue in the middle of it. There's a Superman museum there.

Superman has a ride at six flags.

Superman among all comic characters has had by far the most tv time, with several cartoon series, and one hour cartoon movies, justice league, Super friends, the several tv series', etc.

Originally posted by SpunkySmurph
You know, when I was a kid I never really ascocciated Superman with comics.

I mean, I knew that he was from there, but I never thought of him as a 'comic book character'. More of as just a superhero in general. Maybe I would think of the movies or show. Still a testament to his iconhood.

Originally posted by Juntai
In Illinois, there's a city called Metropolis, and they have a giant statue of superman statue in the middle of it. There's a Superman museum there.

Superman has a ride at six flags.

Superman among all comic characters has had by far the most tv time, with several cartoon series, and one hour cartoon movies, justice league, Super friends, the several tv series', etc.
Wasn't there also a show on Broadway about him? I think I recall hearing about that.

Anyone saying Spider-man is more iconic is simply picking favorites. When it comes to being an icon, nobody in all of literature can match Superman in terms of being an icon. This shouldn't even be up for debate.

Originally posted by batdude123
When it comes to being an icon, nobody in all of literature can match Superman in terms of being an icon.
Jesus can.

Originally posted by Accel
Jesus can.

Sorry, number TWO. My bad...

That's better.

you also forgot buda

aside from that i already stated that sups is the bigger icon but there's a reason for that he was for all pratical purposes the first of his kind ofcouse that naturally tips the scales in his favor, everyone talking about superman have mentioned the statues the parades and the rides, but aside from all the glory what else is there to him? how does he connect with the common man? fact is he cant because he wasnt ment to he's always been depiceted as being above man so it's impossible to imagen him as just a man the closest he came was when christoper reeves was crippled but then it was reeves who was the true superman for everything he did after he was paralized, i'm not picking spidy because i like him more or anything like that i'm picking him for what he is and what he means, he outright has more depth and meaning than superman, yes superman was first and for that reason he can never be forgotten but spider-man brings more to the world than superman in terms of depth

oh yea spidy also has a ride

bump

Hmm, the I-want-to-identify-with-my-hero schtick is a tad overrated, imo. The reason Spidey is such a great character is not because we want to relate to him, eventhough we do.

Originally posted by Juntai
In Illinois, there's a city called Metropolis, and they have a giant statue of superman statue in the middle of it. There's a Superman museum there.

Superman has a ride at six flags.

Superman among all comic characters has had by far the most tv time, with several cartoon series, and one hour cartoon movies, justice league, Super friends, the several tv series', etc.


Spiderman has one of the biggest movies ever made, one of Universal's most popular rides ever, has the #1 merchandizing industry in the world(and has for years), had the most anticipated Saturday morning cartoon(not to mention one of the top five most succesfull) ever shown, and is DEMANDED to be in as many comics as he possibly can. So what about TV? Spiderman is never done correctly on the television, thus not many shows are made.

I see the most iconic like this.

1. Spiderman
2. Superman(I despise him, but he is incredibly iconic)
3. Ultraman(he has his own AMUSEMENT PARK!)
4. Hulk
5. Batman(don't like him, but hey)
6. Kamen Rider(the guy had one of Japan's most successful shows ever, not to mention their second largest franchise)
7. Wonder Woman
8. Green Lantern
9. Fantastic Four
10. X-Men

without superman, there is a very real possibility that spiderman (and everyone else, for that matter) never would have existed.

in terms of pure stature, it's superman and everyone else.

Originally posted by Ultraman Baltan
I see the most iconic like this.

1. Spiderman
2. Superman(I despise him, but he is incredibly iconic)
3. Ultraman(he has his own AMUSEMENT PARK!)
4. Hulk
5. Batman(don't like him, but hey)
6. Kamen Rider(the guy had one of Japan's most successful shows ever, not to mention their second largest franchise)
7. Wonder Woman
8. Green Lantern
9. Fantastic Four
10. X-Men
Wow.

yah, i meant to say that to that list as well . . .

Tell me when spiderman died did that get anywhere close to the amount of coverage Superman's did in the media.
How many live action TV shows has spiderman had .
How many Cartoons has spiderman been in .
compare that to Superman
Saying Spiderman is more iconic then Superman is Ludicrous

This is how I see it:

1: Superman
2: Batman
3: The Smurfs(I suppose Papa Smurf is the most well known)
4: Spiderman
5: Hulk
6: Asterix
7: Tin Tin
8: Wolverine(thanks to the movies)


That's about it, if we're talking about world wide comic book icons. As famous (among comic readers) as characters like Thor, Wonder Woman and all the rest may be, they're not nearly as iconic as those characters.

Well, I'm sure there are more, but I can't think of any right now.

Originally posted by leonidas
without superman, there is a very real possibility that spiderman (and everyone else, for that matter) never would have existed.

in terms of pure stature, it's superman and everyone else.
i've already stated that at the beginning of all of this it's for that reason and mainly that reason alone that he's always going to sit in the #1 spot it's not just hum whoever would have came first would be sitting in superman's spot he has a 20 yea minimum head start against anybody else out there so ofcouse that influences things a bit, but the fact is as a cahracter he's still kind of shallow spiderman brought depth to comic book characters on a scale never seen before without him all the other woulb be nothing more than just inkdrawings on paper

oh yea spider-man has appered in many tv shows and catoons and games as such compaireing the 2 like that is kinda useless and it's aside the point anyway

Well, Batman had depth too. Even before Spiderman. But the thing is, Spiderman grew to be a more interesting character.

Edit: ofcourse, this is my personal opinion.

Originally posted by Dinalfos
Well, Batman had depth too. Even before Spiderman. But the thing is, Spiderman grew to be a more interesting character. while batman did have depth he didnt come across with it the same way spiderman did, spider-man literally puts us in his shoes as we also come across most of the same problems he faces in our own every day life(not refering to any superhero stuff)

i love the motivation for both characters IMO batman and spider-man have real reasons to dawn their tights and be heroes but the diffrence in why is something that gives spiderman the slight edge

bruce was only a child when his parents were killed it was not his fault and he was powerless to do anything about it and thus he's spent the rest of his life preventing something like that from ever happening again he's a hero without the sin

peter is a hero with the sin he is his own worst enemy, he gained great power but misused it and was acting irresposnibily and because of one selfish act the man who had been like a father to him was killed it was pete's fault he could have prevented it and he has to get up every single day and look himself in the mirror knowing that fact he understands what can happen if power is misused and that's why he became a hero, that and to repent for his sins

Originally posted by lando005
oh yea spider-man has appered in many tv shows and catoons and games as such compaireing the 2 like that is kinda useless and it's aside the point anyway Nowhere near Supes' portrayed, who has had a cartoon or a tv show, or both on air, dating from today, to the 1930's.

Originally posted by lando005
i've already stated that at the beginning of all of this it's for that reason and mainly that reason alone that he's always going to sit in the #1 spot it's not just hum whoever would have came first would be sitting in superman's spot he has a 20 yea minimum head start against anybody else out there so ofcouse that influences things a bit, but the fact is as a cahracter he's still kind of shallow spiderman brought depth to comic book characters on a scale never seen before without him all the other woulb be nothing more than just inkdrawings on paper That's all opinion and is truly beside the point here. This is about who's impact is harder, who is more recognized, etc. Spiderman is certainly Marvel's biggest icon, but he can't be compared to Superman's status.

Originally posted by Juntai
Nowhere near Supes' portrayed, who has had a cartoon or a tv show, or both on air, dating from today, to the 1930's.
again massive head start

Yeah, I agree. But Batman has done a lot for dark, brooding character developement. While I do believe Spiderman to be the vastly superior character(who has plenty of dark stuff as well), there's no denying that Bruce Wayne started the whole psychologically tortured and twisted hero stuff. Or at least helped develope it.

But yeah, Spiderman took some of those elements, some of Superman's and added a whole lot of his own. He took a premise and made it his own.

Originally posted by Juntai
That's all opinion and is truly beside the point here. This is about who's impact is harder, who is more recognized, etc. Spiderman is certainly Marvel's biggest icon, but he can't be compared to Superman's status. that's not irrelivant at all that's part of the topic to debate here please go back and read the begining of the post while i have be debating impact superman supporters have onlys shown he has more spotlight

Originally posted by lando005
again massive head start Attribute it to what you will, it still remains.

Originally posted by Dinalfos
Yeah, I agree. But Batman has done a lot for dark, brooding character developement. While I do believe Spiderman to be the vastly superior character(who has plenty of dark stuff as well), there's no denying that Bruce Wayne started the whole psychologically tortured and twisted hero stuff. Or at least helped develope it.

But yeah, Spiderman took some of those elements, some of Superman's and added a whole lot of his own. He took a premise and made it his own. i'm not denying bruce in that department he's got it made it just that haveing your parents killed in front of you when your a helpless child is one thing knowing your father figure was killed because of an action that YOU could have prevented is another

you're confusing the issue saying spidey added never-before-seen-depth to charatcers. MARVEL itself decided to take their heroes from the 'less-iconic', completely-perfect-heroes dc had been using, and go for a more 'reality-based' hero set. ff appeared before spidey and the ff had the same kind of depth you're attributing to spiderman -- just look at what happened to poor grim. banner as hulk was also around the same time as spidey and was done in the same character-type. real person, real problems that transferred over to the hero. spiderman has ultimately proven to be perhaps marvel's flagship (though some would argue the xmen hold that more modern role) but it was not spiderman per se who began this type of characterization. it was the direction lee chose to take his charatcers in. it was an entire paradigm shift. and spidey (great as he is) wasn't even at the forefront of it.

and FAR before marvel began, batman was already BEGINNING to set the stage for the anti-hero-type.

you're over-creditting spiderman's role in comicdom. i'll not argue he's played a large role, just not so large as you're claiming and certainly not as big a role as any of dc's big 3 -- bats, (first anti-hero), ww (first female -- essentially) or superman (greatest and most important of them all).

as far as movies or games -- who cares? we are (or i thought we were) discussing the characters' relative impacts on the comicbook genre.

Originally posted by Juntai
Attribute it to what you will, it still remains.
like i said before are you totally confident that superman would still be at the status he is today if he and spider-man came out at the same time

Originally posted by lando005
like i said before are you totally confident that superman would still be at the status he is today if he and spider-man came out at the same time

why does it matter
and yes I do beleive Supes would still be more Iconic

Well, Namor appeared around the same time. He was technically an anti-hero. Well, at least that's what I remember.

Originally posted by lando005
that's not irrelivant at all that's part of the topic to debate here please go back and read the begining of the post while i have be debating impact superman supporters have onlys shown he has more spotlight And that's what this is about. Being an Icon has to do inside and outside of comics medium. Superman has had the single biggest influence of any comic character ever, across the board. That has to do with the comics medium, being the first and original, and still appearing in just as many monthly comics anyone else if not more , the media coverage of having a TV show, or cartoon from now till back in the 30's.

You keep repeating, a lot of that has to do with Supes vastly predating Spiderman... I'm replying with . . so what? You're the one that asked for the comparison.

Originally posted by lando005
like i said before are you totally confident that superman would still be at the status he is today if he and spider-man came out at the same time Not applicable. That's not how it stands.

Originally posted by leonidas
you're confusing the issue saying spidey added never-before-seen-depth to charatcers. MARVEL itself decided to take their heroes from the 'less-iconic', completely-perfect-heroes dc had been using, and go for a more 'reality-based' hero set. ff appeared before spidey and the ff had the same kind of depth you're attributing to spiderman -- just look at what happened to poor grim. banner as hulk was also around the same time as spidey and was done in the same character-type. real person, real problems that transferred over to the hero. spiderman has ultimately proven to be perhaps marvel's flagship (though some would argue the xmen hold that more modern role) but it was not spiderman per se who began this type of characterization. it was the direction lee chose to take his charatcers in. it was an entire paradigm shift. and spidey (great as he is) wasn't even at the forefront of it.

and FAR before marvel began, batman was already BEGINNING to set the stage for the anti-hero-type.

you're over-creditting spiderman's role in comicdom. i'll not argue he's played a large role, just not so large as you're claiming and certainly not as big a role as any of dc's big 3 -- bats, (first anti-hero), ww (first female -- essentially) or superman (greatest and most important of them all).

as far as movies or games -- who cares? we are (or i thought we were) discussing the characters' relative impacts on the comicbook genre.
you bring up very good points the the fact of the matter is who best portarys the every day man the average joe the underdog? yes all of thoes other chacaters had their issues but spider-man best covered thoes issuse for our standpoint haveing to worry about the rent or getting the job or scoring a date or the school bully, these were things not widely seen in comics before and they are issuse we ALL face and go through in our lives, in that regard spiderman has done more than superman

Originally posted by lando005
i'm not denying bruce in that department he's got it made it just that haveing your parents killed in front of you when your a helpless child is one thing knowing your father figure was killed because of an action that YOU could have prevented is another Kind of like how Robin died fighting Batman's worst enemy and Batman didn't get there quick enough? He had that one hanging over his shoulder until recently.

Originally posted by leonidas
you're confusing the issue saying spidey added never-before-seen-depth to charatcers. MARVEL itself decided to take their heroes from the 'less-iconic', completely-perfect-heroes dc had been using, and go for a more 'reality-based' hero set. ff appeared before spidey and the ff had the same kind of depth you're attributing to spiderman -- just look at what happened to poor grim. banner as hulk was also around the same time as spidey and was done in the same character-type. real person, real problems that transferred over to the hero. spiderman has ultimately proven to be perhaps marvel's flagship (though some would argue the xmen hold that more modern role) but it was not spiderman per se who began this type of characterization. it was the direction lee chose to take his charatcers in. it was an entire paradigm shift. and spidey (great as he is) wasn't even at the forefront of it.

and FAR before marvel began, batman was already BEGINNING to set the stage for the anti-hero-type.

you're over-creditting spiderman's role in comicdom. i'll not argue he's played a large role, just not so large as you're claiming and certainly not as big a role as any of dc's big 3 -- bats, (first anti-hero), ww (first female -- essentially) or superman (greatest and most important of them all).

as far as movies or games -- who cares? we are (or i thought we were) discussing the characters' relative impacts on the comicbook genre. Thank you.

Originally posted by Devil Lance
why does it matter
and yes I do beleive Supes would still be more Iconic it matters because that's one of the biggest issues i want to try and brign across superman can way ahead of everyone else people didnt have much else to go by and set the bar with him and depicted him as a almost godlike being but if spidy cane across at the same time who would readers realate to more and be more intersted in the near godlike perfect being or the every day man who's life had been turned up side down

Originally posted by lando005
you bring up very good points the the fact of the matter is who best portarys the every day man the average joe the underdog? yes all of thoes other chacaters had their issues but spider-man best covered thoes issuse for our standpoint haveing to worry about the rent or getting the job or scoring a date or the school bully, these were things not widely seen in comics before and they are issuse we ALL face and go through in our lives, in that regard spiderman has done more than superman And yet it still remains that Spiderman would probably not even be a comic character if not for Superman. That's the impact of being an icon, not being a nerd who gets his ass kicked all the time.

Originally posted by leonidas
you're confusing the issue saying spidey added never-before-seen-depth to charatcers. MARVEL itself decided to take their heroes from the 'less-iconic', completely-perfect-heroes dc had been using, and go for a more 'reality-based' hero set. ff appeared before spidey and the ff had the same kind of depth you're attributing to spiderman -- just look at what happened to poor grim. banner as hulk was also around the same time as spidey and was done in the same character-type. real person, real problems that transferred over to the hero. spiderman has ultimately proven to be perhaps marvel's flagship (though some would argue the xmen hold that more modern role) but it was not spiderman per se who began this type of characterization. it was the direction lee chose to take his charatcers in. it was an entire paradigm shift. and spidey (great as he is) wasn't even at the forefront of it.

and FAR before marvel began, batman was already BEGINNING to set the stage for the anti-hero-type.

you're over-creditting spiderman's role in comicdom. i'll not argue he's played a large role, just not so large as you're claiming and certainly not as big a role as any of dc's big 3 -- bats, (first anti-hero), ww (first female -- essentially) or superman (greatest and most important of them all).

as far as movies or games -- who cares? we are (or i thought we were) discussing the characters' relative impacts on the comicbook genre.

i just hate being at the bottom of a page.

a point was raised though about them coming out at the same and who would THEN be more iconic. that's a . . . silly point. i could say if they both came out TODAY who would be better received. neither. seriously. their names are awful, and they lack some of the modernity of today's characters. both are STILL a little 'old-fashioned' and hardly 'cutting-edge'. if marvel produced both back in the early 60s they would STILL be too different -- supes would NOT have been the hero he has become.

if they had come out at the same time, both would have been VERY different making the point worthless.

Originally posted by Juntai
And that's what this is about. Being an Icon has to do inside and outside of comics medium. Superman has had the single biggest influence of any comic character ever, across the board. That has to do with the comics medium, being the first and original, and still appearing in just as many monthly comics anyone else if not more , the media coverage of having a TV show, or cartoon from now till back in the 30's.

You keep repeating, a lot of that has to do with Supes vastly predating Spiderman... I'm replying with . . so what? You're the one that asked for the comparison. and nobody's answering the question would he still be where he is if someone like spidy appeared at the same time

superman came along by himself so ofcourse he would be the bench mark there was no one else to compair him to at the time

Originally posted by Juntai
Kind of like how Robin died fighting Batman's worst enemy and Batman didn't get there quick enough? He had that one hanging over his shoulder until recently. was he acting out of arrogance? did he CHOOSE not to take action?

Originally posted by lando005
and nobody's answering the question would he still be where he is if someone like spidy appeared at the same time

superman came along by himself so ofcourse he would be the bench mark there was no one else to compair him to at the time And I'm saying, it's irrelivent, because that's not how it happened, it's not how it stands. This is about who's the bigger icon, not the bigger icon in your hypothetical world where Spiderman was the first true to life super-hero and not Supes.

Originally posted by Devil Lance
Tell me when spiderman died did that get anywhere close to the amount of coverage Superman's did in the media.
How many live action TV shows has spiderman had .
How many Cartoons has spiderman been in .
compare that to Superman
Saying Spiderman is more iconic then Superman is Ludicrous

When did Spiderman die? If you mean "The Other", nobody even read it. Why? Because it was ruining the most iconic superhero! Superman was one people waited for, because believe it or not, a ton of people hate him.

Originally posted by leonidas
i just hate being at the bottom of a page.

a point was raised though about them coming out at the same and who would THEN be more iconic. that's a . . . silly point. i could say if they both came out TODAY who would be better received. neither. seriously. their names are awful, and they lack some of the modernity of today's characters. both are STILL a little 'old-fashioned' and hardly 'cutting-edge'. if marvel produced both back in the early 60s they would STILL be too different -- supes would NOT have been the hero he has become.

if they had come out at the same time, both would have been VERY different making the point worthless. True enough.

Originally posted by lando005
was he acting out of arrogance? did he CHOOSE not to take action? No, it was because he's human, and can't always be there. Doesn't change the hardship.

Originally posted by Juntai
And yet it still remains that Spiderman would probably not even be a comic character if not for Superman. That's the impact of being an icon, not being a nerd who gets his ass kicked all the time. if your the only one of your kind ofcourse your going to be elevated to position of greatest nomatter how good someone else might be who comes along because you were first still not answering the question here

Originally posted by lando005
if your the only one of your kind ofcourse your going to be elevated to position of greatest nomatter how good someone else might be who comes along because you were first still not answering the question here The question doesn't need to be answered. It's hypothetical and useless to the thread, because it's simply not the way it is. It's not the way it's happened. Superman's iconship involves him being the first true Superhero, the first mass marketed Superhero, the first mass media Superhero.

You're asking us who's the bigger icon today.

And now you're trying to force us into this hypothetical fantasy 'what if' version of reality, where Spiderman is just as old.. but it's irrelivent to what the thread asked for.

Originally posted by Juntai
And I'm saying, it's irrelivent, because that's not how it happened, it's not how it stands. This is about who's the bigger icon, not the bigger icon in your hypothetical world where Spiderman was the first true to life super-hero and not Supes. but that's the whole thing people wanted a hero and had nothing else to go by ther's no way in hell that wouldnt make a diffrence in what people think... all i'm saying is takeing away superman's advantage of comeing first, back then in thoes times when people were most receptive what would have happen? i think it would be a totally diffrent situation

Originally posted by lando005
and nobody's answering the question would he still be where he is if someone like spidy appeared at the same time

superman came along by himself so ofcourse he would be the bench mark there was no one else to compair him to at the time

you're wrong there. there were other comic books before superman. flash gordon. the phantom. tarzan. some UK books as well that i can't recall off-hand. the beauty of superman is that when he was introduced, he opened an entirely new WORLD of comics -- the superhero.

spidey, for all your saying his characterization somehow puts him on the same level with supes, did nothing nearly so grandiose. superman was and remains an archetype. spiderman is not. therein lies the ultimate differnce, i think.

Originally posted by leonidas
you're wrong there. there were other comic books before superman. flash gordon. the phantom. tarzan. some UK books as well that i can't recall off-hand. the beauty of superman is that when he was introduced, he opened an entirely new WORLD of comics -- the superhero.

spidey, for all your saying his characterization somehow puts him on the same level with supes, did nothing nearly so grandiose. superman was and remains an archetype. spiderman is not. therein lies the ultimate differnce, i think. Yep.

Originally posted by lando005
but that's the whole thing people wanted a hero and had nothing else to go by ther's no way in hell that wouldnt make a diffrence in what people think... all i'm saying is takeing away superman's advantage of comeing first, back then in thoes times when people were most receptive what would have happen? i think it would be a totally diffrent situation It -might- be, but that's not the way it happened. This isn't your hypothetical world. This is the real world, were Superman is the first true to life Superhero, and Spiderman came several years later as part of the media grouping Superman created. Why debate the hypothetical bullshit when it's simply not the way it happened?

Originally posted by lando005
but that's the whole thing people wanted a hero and had nothing else to go by ther's no way in hell that wouldnt make a diffrence in what people think... all i'm saying is takeing away superman's advantage of comeing first, back then in thoes times when people were most receptive what would have happen? i think it would be a totally diffrent situation

not necessarily true at all. in the era supes was created the world (our part) had gone to sh!t. superman was . . . a beacon, a character who carried everyone ABOVE the mess of the real world. it is at least equally fair to say that the people in the midst of the depression would have hated spiderman, a character who fiddled around in the muck right beside them. perhaps superman was so successful because he gave readers of the time exactly what they needed -- an escape from the drudgery of their miserable, everyday lives.

Originally posted by Juntai
The question doesn't need to be answered. It's hypothetical and useless to the thread, because it's simply not the way it is. It's not the way it's happened. Superman's iconship involves him being the first true Superhero, the first mass marketed Superhero, the first mass media Superhero.

You're asking us who's the bigger icon today.

And now you're trying to force us into this hypothetical fantasy 'what if' version of reality, where Spiderman is just as old.. but it's irrelivent to what the thread asked for. you fail to grasp the concept of this forum it's not just about the bigger icon hell i even said superman was but there is a reason for that comeing along first before anyone else was created DOES make a big diffrance that person is already set in place nobody can forget him this is about who's made the bigger impact prestige of who was first doent apply here that's why i put up that "what if" scinario because you and i both know superman wouldnt be holding that #1 spot decisivly

Originally posted by leonidas
not necessarily true at all. in the era supes was created the world (our part) had gone to sh!t. superman was . . . a beacon, a character who carried everyone ABOVE the mess of the real world. it is at least equally fair to say that the people in the midst of the depression would have hated spiderman, a character who fiddled around in the muck right beside them. perhaps superman was so successful because he gave readers of the time exactly what they needed -- an escape from the drudgery of their miserable, everyday lives. Once again, on point.

Originally posted by lando005
you fail to grasp the concept of this forum it's not just about the bigger icon hell i even said superman was but there is a reason for that comeing along first before anyone else was created DOES make a big diffrance that person is already set in place nobody can forget him this is about who's made the bigger impact prestige of who was first doent apply here that's why i put up that "what if" scinario because you and i both know superman wouldnt be holding that #1 spot decisivly

you seem to be implying that had we replaced superman with spiderman in 193whatever, that SPIDERMAN would have been THE icon. i disagree, and would contend that had spidey been intro'd in supes' time, that spidey would have fallen by the way side because he was not what people were craving.

spidey's timing was great. people had begun to grow tired of dc's 'perfect' characters, so a change was needed -- and most welcomed. lee's impact was monstrous on the industry and changed the way heroes were seen, no doubt. but they were still playing the game dc invented -- lee just tinkered with the rules a little.

nice civil discussion, gents.

Originally posted by Juntai
It -might- be, but that's not the way it happened. This isn't your hypothetical world. This is the real world, were Superman is the first true to life Superhero, and Spiderman came several years later as part of the media grouping Superman created. Why debate the hypothetical bullshit when it's simply not the way it happened? the reason why i ask this? i thought it would be clear superman is engrainded in our mindset as the archtype of a superhero.... you are all correct on that point but at the same time if lets say the green lantern was created first befor anyone else wouldnt he be the archtype the goal the beach mark that eveyone looked up to? that's why it matters on who came first superman earned his position by default it's like haveing a contest without anyone to compete against

all i'm asking is takeing these 2 characters and putting them on equal footing which one would have made the bigger impact who would have been more than just a comic book character to the people

Originally posted by leonidas
nice civil discussion, gents. thankyou i respect not only yours but every post placed on here naturally we are going to disagree but it's in a nice civil manner and hopefully i've given people here something to think about

Originally posted by lando005
the reason why i ask this? i thought it would be clear superman is engrainded in our mindset as the archtype of a superhero.... you are all correct on that point but at the same time if lets say the green lantern was created first befor anyone else wouldnt he be the archtype the goal the beach mark that eveyone looked up to? that's why it matters on who came first superman earned his position by default it's like haveing a contest without anyone to compete against

all i'm asking is takeing these 2 characters and putting them on equal footing which one would have made the bigger impact who would have been more than just a comic book character to the people So basically you're admitting that Supes is the ICON, but you feel that it would be different if they had come out at the same time?

I still have to disagree with you and agree with Leo. Spiderman was successful because it went against the status quo of DC's 'perfect heros'. I don't think Spiderman would have been as successful coming out amidst the Great Depession.

Originally posted by leonidas
you seem to be implying that had we replaced superman with spiderman in 193whatever, that SPIDERMAN would have been THE icon. i disagree, and would contend that had spidey been intro'd in supes' time, that spidey would have fallen by the way side because he was not what people were craving.

spidey's timing was great. people had begun to grow tired of dc's 'perfect' characters, so a change was needed -- and most welcomed. lee's impact was monstrous on the industry and changed the way heroes were seen, no doubt. but they were still playing the game dc invented -- lee just tinkered with the rules a little. you make a good point but at the same time it is debateable that the people could have liked spider-man as well, seeing someone just like them a person who's come across hard times yet still trying to make the best of it and doing the right thing would apeel to people in that situation a way of giving hope as in "if he could do it so can i" or "his issues are > or= mine so it cant be all bad" kind of attitude

it was also a 50/50 shot with superman he just got the better half of the 50 people could have easily resented and hated a character who was for all pratical purposes living the good life at the time, we as humanbeing can be very jelouse and envious people for thoes who are fairing better than us now and days it's just called hateing

Originally posted by Juntai
So basically you're admitting that Supes is the ICON, but you feel that it would be different if they had come out at the same time?

I still have to disagree with you and agree with Leo. Spiderman was successful because it went against the status quo of DC's 'perfect heros'. I don't think Spiderman would have been as successful coming out amidst the Great Depession. thankyou for finally understanding where i stand on this matter as for the timeing issue for spiderman i have already posted a reply on this

the reason why i created this thread was because i was curious and i KNOW spider-man i know the impact that he has and what he's about and we all know what superman is about that much is undenyable but you cant help but to admit being the first of your kind has ALOT to do with it soo with that in mind looking past the barriers of "that's just how things are" and keeping in mind what these characters are about and how they've effected people what would the case be if they both came out the time superman originally appeared

Originally posted by lando005
you make a good point but at the same time it is debateable that the people could have liked spider-man as well, seeing someone just like them a person who's come across hard times yet still trying to make the best of it and doing the right thing would apeel to people in that situation a way of giving hope as in "if he could do it so can i" or "his issues are > or= mine so it cant be all bad" kind of attitude

it was also a 50/50 shot with superman he just got the better half of the 50 people could have easily resented and hated a character who was for all pratical purposes living the good life at the time, we as humanbeing can be very jelouse and envious people for thoes who are fairing better than us now and days it's just called hateing

other characters, as i said, already DID exist. much more 'human' characters than superman but none of them left an indellible mark like superman did. why would spiderman have been more popular than the shadow?

of course i can't say with certainty that spidey would NOT have been really popular back in the 30s, but the given the types of heroes that already existed, and given that superman was such a departure from that type, leads me to think that spiderman would NOT have had the impact that superman did.

Originally posted by leonidas
other characters, as i said, already DID exist. much more 'human' characters than superman but none of them left an indellible mark like superman did. why would spiderman have been more popular than the shadow?

of course i can't say with certainty that spidey would NOT have been really popular back in the 30s, but the given the types of heroes that already existed, and given that superman was such a departure from that type, leads me to think that spiderman would NOT have had the impact that superman did. once again you bring up some very intersting points but it could be seculated that the pre existing characters like the shadow neer really dealt with the same every day issues as you and me or any other average person at the time spider-man has always been about living the exact same kind of lifestyle as any other random person the fact is if he was never bitten he would be a normal nobody(except maybe to the science world) it's an intreaguing concept that while not totally original was never presented with the same approch as spider-man, but who knows for sure you could very well be right about the mass reseption of spider-man at that time and also at the same time things could have be the exact oppisite for superman these are things left open to chance

not chance. it wasn't luck that made them what they are. circumstances surrounding them dictated their success and their suitability to those circumstances. which is why it is so hard to play 'substitute the heroes'. the very reasons they were created were dependent on their surrounding times. the 30s was a perfect time for superman because the world wanted to be elevated above the hardships of the everyday, not reminded of them. the 60s was perfect for lee and his vision of the 'new' superhero because people were tired of the same old.

to remove them from their times removes them from the exact reasons WHY they were so successful in the first place.

Originally posted by leonidas
not chance. it wasn't luck that made them what they are. circumstances surrounding them dictated their success and their suitability to those circumstances. which is why it is so hard to play 'substitute the heroes'. the very reasons they were created were dependent on their surrounding times. the 30s was a perfect time for superman because the world wanted to be elevated above the hardships of the everyday, not reminded of them. the 60s was perfect for lee and his vision of the 'new' superhero because people were tired of the same old.

to remove them from their times removes them from the exact reasons WHY they were so successful in the first place.
i'll agree with you on the good timeing but there was and always would be the risk of both of them failing nothing was set in stone nobody could tell for 100% accuracy what the future might hold, that aside though you present a very strong argument that's hard to go against, so i ask you this if the 2 were to be presented to an indiffrent audieance for the first time how would it turn out? thing is i want to know who would prove the better on a totally even playing field here? your argument about the people at the times is all but flawless and can be depicted as an advantasious situation for superman

Originally posted by lando005
i'll agree with you on the good timeing but there was and always would be the risk of both of them failing nothing was set in stone nobody could tell for 100% accuracy what the future might hold, that aside though you present a very strong argument that's hard to go against, so i ask you this if the 2 were to be presented to an indiffrent audieance for the first time how would it turn out? thing is i want to know who would prove the better on a totally even playing field here? your argument about the people at the times is all but flawless and can be depicted as an advantasious situation for superman

that's a tough question. you could make a strong case for one or the other by simply checking how their current books are doing relative to each other. that would indicate how the public perceives the characters at the moment.

i think currently superman is outselling spidey, but that may not mean if both were brand new that would be the case. i tend to think people would like spidey better personally, but have no real justification for it. readers today (novels and comics) seem to enjoy characters they can relate to better than characters far removed from them, like supes and other cosmics. but your question is really hard to answer.

interesting discussion.

Originally posted by leonidas
that's a tough question. you could make a strong case for one or the other by simply checking how their current books are doing relative to each other. that would indicate how the public perceives the characters at the moment.

i think currently superman is outselling spidey, but that may not mean if both were brand new that would be the case. i tend to think people would like spidey better personally, but have no real justification for it. readers today (novels and comics) seem to enjoy characters they can relate to better than characters far removed from them, like supes and other cosmics. but your question is really hard to answer.

interesting discussion. thankyou this is the true heart of thes debate and a question i would like answered with everyone's most unbias decisions

Originally posted by lando005
thankyou this is the true heart of thes debate and a question i would like answered with everyone's most unbias decisions

Well I can't relate to Superman but I can relate to Clark Kent.

Thats something I think people overlook they only see the "Super" side of Superman and not the "Man" side of him which is Clark Kent.

Clark has gone through just as much hard times as Peter

Originally posted by Devil Lance
Well I can't relate to Superman but I can relate to Clark Kent.

Thats something I think people overlook they only see the "Super" side of Superman and not the "Man" side of him which is Clark Kent.

Clark has gone through just as much hard times as Peter that's the thing superman wasnt designt to be portaried as a man like you siad but a super spider-man is the oppisite

Originally posted by lando005
that's the thing superman wasnt designt to be portaried as a man like you siad but a super spider-man is the oppisite

Yes Superman wasn't but Clark Kent is and Superman= Clark Kent

things about kent is -- superman doesn't NEED kent. he chooses him.

superman plays at clark kent.

peter parker plays at spiderman.

Originally posted by batdude123
Anyone saying Spider-man is more iconic is simply picking favorites. When it comes to being an icon, nobody in all of literature can match Superman in terms of being an icon. This shouldn't even be up for debate. This is quite possibly the stupidest thing I've ever read in my life. I would put more thought into someone who seriously said, "1+1=3" than this inanity. Superman is as recognizable as Mickey Mouse. To put these characters on par with Hercules or other Greek legends that predate the Bible or, speak of the devil, Adam, Eve & the Serpent in the Old testament or even the Monkey King Trickster of old Chinese folklore is ludicrously retarded.

This pretentiousness borders on the Beatles' Jesus statement. Look what happened to them. Name me ten of your friends that can even name more than three of their world famous so-called 'Bigger than Jesus' songs anymore. I guarantee that most people don't even recognize their music playing during god damn iPod commercials.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
This is quite possibly the stupidest thing I've ever read in my life. I would put more thought into someone who seriously said, "1+1=3" than this inanity. Superman is as recognizable as Mickey Mouse. To put these characters on par with Hercules or other Greek legends that predate the Bible or, speak of the devil, Adam, Eve & the Serpent in the Old testament or even the Monkey King Trickster of old Chinese folklore is ludicrously retarded.

This pretentiousness borders on the Beatles' Jesus statement. Look what happened to them. Name me ten of your friends that can even name more than three of their world famous so-called 'Bigger than Jesus' songs anymore. I guarantee that most people don't even recognize their music playing during god damn iPod commercials.

The f*ck? You didn't pick up on the hyperbole?

Do you have some kind of vendetta, or something? And yes, actually Superman was listed as the second most recognizable character in literature history next to JESUS. I didn't make that up.

so you're:

stupid, inane, ludicrously retarded, pretentious and, apparently know nothing about music.



i've been saying that for months!

Originally posted by batdude123
The f*ck? You didn't pick up on the hyperbole?

Do you have some kind of vendetta, or something? And yes, actually Superman was listed as the second most recognizable character in literature history next to JESUS. I didn't make that up. If you still believe it, than how is your statement hyperbole? Hyperbole is a term that usually means its an overstatement and implicitly, you don't believe in that overstatement. But you still believe it.

Also, I hate being nasty... but this just begs the reply... "You mean there are actually more people that believe that ****ing garbage than just you?" I fear for our children's future. Someone hold me and tell me that it'll be alright, I'm scared.

If you seriously want to fight me on the veracity of this so-called survey, I guarantee you that more people in the world recognize the icon of the Serpent with an Apple more than Superman. I also guarantee that there are more people who recognize the Chinese legend of the Monkey King on his flying cloud more than those who recognize Superman. First, because EVERY East Asian knows about the legend of the Monkey King (in China alone thats 2 billion+ people). Second, a crapload of other people know the icon of the Monkey King without even knowing it, because Son Goku from Dragonball Z is one of the thousand variations of the Monkey King. I also happen to believe Mickey Mouse tops Superman in icon recognition but I could be wrong on that one.

the before statement from batdude shouldnt be taken all too seriously he probably didnt get the full understanding of the topic at the time.... batdud please go back a page and read up about what we've been discussing i thinkt the point i'm trying to get across is more clearly stated there you'll have a better understanding of what's going on

I'll go with the Ubermensch on this one.