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I havent seen these two put into a fight who would win?

Beyonder wins.

This would be a great battle.

But I don't think even the Beyonder would resist the Chaos Wave for long.

Originally posted by Mr Master
This would be a great battle.

But I don't think even the Beyonder would resist the Chaos Wave for long.
I would have to dissagree with you on this one.

Beyonder was everything there was inside and ouside the Multiverse.
Basicly he was everything in the Omniverse.

So the chaos wave would be a part of him as well.
He could simply neutralize it.

. . . Power of the writers, he can't be beaten, (if he don't want to) he can only be stalemated by other beings with the power of the writers.
TOAA for example.

Originally posted by Thanos_THOTU
I would have to dissagree with you on this one.

Beyonder was everything there was inside and ouside the Multiverse.
Basicly he was everything in the Omniverse.

I know what Beyonder was.

And there was no Omni-verse in the Pre-retcon era, there was only a Multi-verse and the Beyond Realm.

TOAA Expanded his Multi-verse, into the Omniverse way AFTER Beyonder was Ret-conned.

The Omni-verse is an INFINITE number of Multi-verses, (even MORE than Millions of Multi-verses, MORE than Billions of Multi-verses, INFINITE.)


Beyonder was Millions of times more powerful than ONE Multi-verse.

Beyonder CREATED an INFINITE Universe.


You know I think Beyonder's the man, but TOAA did more On Panel than he did.


The power of the writers? Don't they all have that?

On Panel feats is really all that matters to me.


Originally posted by Thanos_THOTU
So the chaos wave would be a part of him as well.
He could simply neutralize it.

I don't think so,

the Chaos Wave could not be stopped by any Power, the Omni-verse as a whole contains it. (sort of like Omni-Eternity, I don't know what its called, but I know the Omni-verse is ALIVE, that may have been TOAA)

It threatened to Destroy EVERYTHING that is Marvel, even possibly TOAA.

The FULL Power of the BEYOND, (Beyonders) was UNABLE to stop it.


Originally posted by Thanos_THOTU
. . . Power of the writers, he can't be beaten, (if he don't want to) he can only be stalemated by other beings with the power of the writers.
TOAA for example.

That's not really a solid debate though, just saying he had the power of the writers, is not reasoning a discussion or argument in a hypothetical VS Thread, the point of this Part of the Forum is to compare their On Panel Feats, then based on indisputable facts make a logical decision of who would win.

Originally posted by Thanos_THOTU
. . . Power of the writers, he can't be beaten,
What do you mean by "Power of the Writers". Everything that happens in comics can be considered "Power of the Writers", so this doesnt make much sense.

Omniverse means "all universes".
The universes were infinity and the sum of the infinite universes made up a Multi-verse.

The Beyond-realm, was infinity compared to a infinite universe.

But it's impossible to prove that:
the Multi-verse and the Beyond-realm was lesser than the Omniverse is today.


The universes has allways been infinite.
There isnt a single post in all of Marvel comics that say that a universe isnt.



Because he put limitations on himself?



Stan Lee said that the Beyonder is supose to represent the power the writers had over the comics.

It wouldent matter if Beyonder was in a Multi-verse or todays Omniverse.
The writer can manipulate it at free will.

I don't think so,


Obviously the wrtier could have stoped it.


Shatter the entire time-stream would be a higher feat.
Since it unmakes time itself.
There would never even exist a year in the comics.

If Wanda destroyed it, it would be at least be a dawn time (and end-) of time.

Beyonder wouldent even leave time.


The Beyonders (Post) is a lot, and I mean a lot weaker than the Pre-retconed version.




I see it like this:
Beyonder was then what TOAA is now.

Originally posted by thedude1948
What do you mean by "Power of the Writers". Everything that happens in comics can be considered "Power of the Writers", so this doesnt make much sense.
Stan Lee stated in an interview that:
Beyonder is supose to represent the power the writers have over the comics.
Therefore he got no real limits, if you overlook the fact that he limited himself.

Originally posted by Thanos_THOTU
Stan Lee stated in an interview that:
Beyonder is supose to represent the power the writers have over the comics.
Therefore he got no real limits, if you overlook the fact that he limited himself.

Stan Lee says the Hulk can beat Superman, is he right?

The Beyonder cant control what the writer writes, so no he doesnt have "Power of the Writers".

Originally posted by thedude1948
Stan Lee says the Hulk can beat Superman, is he right?

The Beyonder cant control what the writer writes, so no he doesnt have "Power of the Writers".
No because Stan does not have authority over the DC characters.

But he have authority to confirm that the Beyonder have the power of the wrtiers.
Just like saying: The UN can destroy and recreate the Multi-verse.

http://www.moviepoopshoot.com/comics101/images/2004/feb18/beyonder.jpg
I sure can dream of creating a Omni-verse.

Originally posted by Thanos_THOTU
Stan Lee stated in an interview that:
Beyonder is supose to represent the power the writers have over the comics.
Therefore he got no real limits, if you overlook the fact that he limited himself. can you provide a scan or link that shows/implies Stan Lee making such a claim?

To my knowledge Jim Shooter was the one in charge of the Beyonder (pre-retcon).

Originally posted by Thanos_THOTU
Omniverse means "all universes".

The Omni-verse is an Infinite number of Multi-verses or EVERY possible Alternate Reality.

http://img163.imageshack.us/img163/4731/romaomnivs9.th.jpg



The OMNI-VERSE - This is how it looks from the Inside:

http://img165.imageshack.us/img165/9923/omni2cn6.th.jpg
http://img165.imageshack.us/img165/211/omni3uj8.th.jpg

Merlyn and Roma oversee the Omni-verse and Betsy Braddock (Captain Britain's sister), is in training.

Captain Britain is the New Omniversal guardian.


The Omni-verse - This is how it looks from the Outside:

Warlock enters a place that separates him from ALL of Time & Space (the Multi-verse)...the Cosmic Vortex.

http://img272.imageshack.us/img272/3198/adamgoesbtwnuniverses15yh.th.jpg


Warlock navigating this realm in-between an INFINITE Number of INFINITE MULTI-VERSES.
http://img272.imageshack.us/img272/7376/adamgoesbtwnuniverses26zw.th.jpg

The Omni-verse is WITHIN the Cosmic Vortex.

Beyond the Cosmic Vortex lies "the Ascention"....the last frontier, GOD, TOAA.
The Chaos Wave was possibly able to take even that out.

If the breach is not sealed, "the Chaos Wave will continue to expand, perhaps to the ASCENTION itself"
http://img95.imageshack.us/img95/9752/sc8bk1.th.jpg


Originally posted by Thanos_THOTU
The universes were infinity and the sum of the infinite universes made up a Multi-verse.

The Beyond-realm, was infinity compared to a infinite universe.

The Beyond Realm was an Infinite Universe even before Beyonder stepped into the Marvel Multi-verse. Beyonder was an Infinite Universe before Secret Wars and after too.


Originally posted by Thanos_THOTU
But it's impossible to prove that:
the Multi-verse and the Beyond-realm was lesser than the Omniverse is today.

Well because the Beyond Realm was an Infinite Universe, and the Multi-verse whether it was infinite or not is inconsequential, because it was just ONE Multi-verse,
While NOW, TOAA has an INFINITE number of Multi-verses and EACH one is INFINITE too.


Originally posted by Thanos_THOTU
The universes has allways been infinite.
There isnt a single post in all of Marvel comics that say that a universe isnt.


A Multi-verse = an INFINITE number of Universes.

The Omni-verse = an INFINITE number of Multi-verses.


Originally posted by Thanos_THOTU
Because he put limitations on himself?

Not by that point.

Right before that sscene Beyonder becomes COMPLETELY HUMAN.

The Beyonder created a Machine that could Contain his FULL Power
http://img103.imageshack.us/img103/4116/be1wh7.th.jpg


Beyonder then is transformed into a HUMAN Being with NO Power at all
http://img114.imageshack.us/img114/8317/be2yu2.th.jpg


Beyonder freaks out from the sensation of Mortality
http://img275.imageshack.us/img275/9339/be3lo0.th.jpg


So He desperately dives back into the Machine to get his FULL Power back
http://img130.imageshack.us/img130/5783/be4gx2.th.jpg

And thats gauged at Millions of Times the Power of the Multi-verse.


Originally posted by Thanos_THOTU
Stan Lee said that the Beyonder is supose to represent the power the writers had over the comics.
It wouldent matter if Beyonder was in a Multi-verse or todays Omniverse.
The writer can manipulate it at free will.
I don't think so,
Obviously the wrtier could have stoped it.

That's not really debating though, which doesn't make it fun to have Beyonder in a VS Thread then.


Originally posted by Thanos_THOTU
Shatter the entire time-stream would be a higher feat.
Since it unmakes time itself.
There would never even exist a year in the comics.
If Wanda destroyed it, it would be at least be a dawn time (and end-) of time.
Beyonder wouldent even leave time.

Wanda Re-Wrote Time every time she Remade Eternity.

The UN can Re-Write Multi-versal Time.

Captain Britain with Excalibur and Amulet of Right, can Re-Write Omni-versal Time.


Originally posted by Thanos_THOTU
The Beyonders (Post) is a lot, and I mean a lot weaker than the Pre-retconed version.

Speculative.

Its actually been hinted that the Beyonders may be a race of Pre-Retcon Beyonders.

If only a tiny bit of their Power is enough to Collapse a Multi-verse, I can see the resemblance.


Originally posted by Thanos_THOTU
I see it like this:
Beyonder was then what TOAA is now.

I don't.

Because the TOAA has done more.

Gotta go with Mr. Master on this, as I suppose I consider him an "expert" on cosmic related fights (plus he has scans to back him up).

Originally posted by Mr Master
Right before that sscene Beyonder becomes COMPLETELY HUMAN.

The Beyonder created a Machine that could Contain his FULL Power
http://img103.imageshack.us/img103/4116/be1wh7.th.jpg


Beyonder then is transformed into a HUMAN Being with NO Power at all
http://img114.imageshack.us/img114/8317/be2yu2.th.jpg


Beyonder freaks out from the sensation of Mortality
http://img275.imageshack.us/img275/9339/be3lo0.th.jpg


So He desperately dives back into the Machine to get his FULL Power back
http://img130.imageshack.us/img130/5783/be4gx2.th.jpg

And thats gauged at Millions of Times the Power of the Multi-verse. Not to mention that after this series of pannels Beyonder was so astonished with all of those new sensations that he had to "try it again". So then he turned back into a human (for the 2nd time), and at this point Mephisto and his demons showed up and almost killed the Beyonder (they were nearly successful).

Originally posted by Mr Master
Wanda wins

Okay, that's the simplified version, but anyways. I knew I could count on you Mr. Master! I concur, Wanda wins.

Are you claiming that Wanda could "possibly" take out the wrtiers . . . ?




The beyond realm was the source of Beyonder's power.
It alone was more powerful than the Multi-verse.
That explains why he alone is.


Each universe was infinite.
It have allways been.

It's just that the beyond realm which no longer exists, was many times greater than the Multi-verse.



In the DC vs Marvel issue #1.
They say that the supreme beings are the total sum of their respective Multi-verse.

Verse = Reality
Uni = One
Multi = More than one
Omni = All

You can as well use the term Multi-verse to describe the Omniverse.


He does not have his true power within him.
It lies in the beyond realm.
It's like an bank account with infinity cash.
And he take out a little bit at a time.



That's the point.




Your point being?
You know that the Heart made Thanos one with Omnireality.
He had the power of the supreme being (writer)
He could easiley replace CB w/ Excalibur and AoR.

The wrtiers are allways above.



What are you talking about? -- Post retcon Beyonders is incomplete cosmic cubes.

The whole occation: SW -- Was appearently only happening in Beyonder's imagination.


But both have been stated to have the power of the writers.

Besides the chaos wave would equal the power of the excalibur.
But you know that it is nowhere near HOTU.

Originally posted by Galan777
So then he turned back into a human (for the 2nd time), and at this point Mephisto and his demons showed up and nearly killed the Beyonder.

Actually that was all an illusion on Mephisto's part, Mephisto has no power over Humans in their dimensional Plane of existence.

http://img291.imageshack.us/img291/4472/be5lv8.th.jpg

But Beyonder did become Human again at this point.

Originally posted by Mr Master
Actually that was all an illusion on Mephisto's part, Mephisto has no power over Humans in their dimensional Plane of existence.

http://img291.imageshack.us/img291/4472/be5lv8.th.jpg

But Beyonder did become Human again at this point. But he tried attacking the Beyonder in his human form none the less?... lol!

Originally posted by Thanos_THOTU
Are you claiming that Wanda could "possibly" take out the wrtiers . . . ?

My Debate does NOT include the Writers, but Pre-Retcon Beyonder and his FEATS On Panel vs the Chaos Wave.

Originally posted by Thanos_THOTU
The beyond realm was the source of Beyonder's power.
It alone was more powerful than the Multi-verse.
That explains why he alone is.

What?

Where'd you get that from?

The Beyond Realm was the Beyonder, without the Beyonder there is NOTHING there.

http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/9851/beyondspaceandtimefk9.th.jpg


Originally posted by Thanos_THOTU
Each universe was infinite.
It have allways been.

It's just that the beyond realm which no longer exists, was many times greater than the Multi-verse.

Yea, Millions of times greater than ONE Multi-verse, while TOAA created an INFINITE number of Multi-verses and ALL of them are INFINITE.


Originally posted by Thanos_THOTU
In the DC vs Marvel issue #1.
They say that the supreme beings are the total sum of their respective Multi-verse.

I would never consider a company Cross-Over in a debate.

And like I said, Marvel is Infinitely bigger than a Multi-verse Now.


Originally posted by Thanos_THOTU
He does not have his true power within him.
It lies in the beyond realm.
It's like an bank account with infinity cash.
And he take out a little bit at a time.

I'm sorry, I just don't understand where this is coming from.

The Beyond Realm was the Beyonder and the Beyonder was the Beyond Realm, without the Beyonder there was NOTHING there.

"Since the Beyonder's departure there has been UTTER NOTHING"
http://img283.imageshack.us/img283/8944/buni2ke0.th.jpg



Originally posted by Thanos_THOTU
Your point being?
You know that the Heart made Thanos one with Omnireality.
He had the power of the supreme being (writer)
He could easiley replace CB w/ Excalibur and AoR.

My point was addressing your comment about Beyonder shattering the Timestream, so every character I mentioned can shatter Time on ALL Levels.

Wanda Re-Wrote Universal Time every time she Remade Eternity.

The UN can Re-Write Multi-versal Time.

Captain Britain with Excalibur and the Amulet of Right, can Re-Write Omni-versal Time.


Originally posted by Thanos_THOTU
You know that the Heart made Thanos one with Omnireality.

Maybe so, but he was ONLY able to Absorb ONE Multi-verse, and he was NOT able to REACH OUT any further


Originally posted by Thanos_THOTU
He had the power of the supreme being (writer)
He could easiley replace CB w/ Excalibur and AoR.

Calling the Supreme Being (TOAA) the Writer was MY Own SPECULATION, I have NO real idea WHO GOD was speaking to on the Phone in the FF issue.


Originally posted by Thanos_THOTU
The wrtiers are allways above.

That's not the way I debate.


Originally posted by Thanos_THOTU
What are you talking about? -- Post retcon Beyonders is incomplete cosmic cubes.

I clearly said the BEYONDERS.

Which are NOT incomplete or complete Cubes.

LT, Eternity, Lord Chaos & Master Order observe two specific creations of the Beyonders.
http://img115.imageshack.us/img115/3528/shistoryie9.th.jpg

Living Tribunal calls the Beyonders, "the INFINITE"
http://img69.imageshack.us/img69/5996/shistory5wo5.th.jpg

"Minute bits of of their Energy" from the Beyonders, created Post-retcon Molecule Man & Post-retcon Beyonder.
http://img69.imageshack.us/img69/5854/shistory6nx7.th.jpg


The Beyonders, with a TINY Bit of their Energy, empower Cosmic Containment Units that can MAKE you a Universe, make you God, give you the Power to collapse a Multi-verse.


Originally posted by Thanos_THOTU
The whole occation: SW -- Was appearently only happening in Beyonder's imagination.

Not exactly, it wasn't ALL in his imagination, some Feats were but not all.
His Level of Power during the Ret-con was complete control of a Universe smaller than Eternity.

Originally posted by Tshern
Okay, that's the simplified version, but anyways. I knew I could count on you Mr. Master! I concur, Wanda wins.

Originally posted by MightyEInherjar
Gotta go with Mr. Master on this, as I suppose I consider him an "expert" on cosmic related fights (plus he has scans to back him up).

So you're simply going to ignore that statement ?


What?


I was more thinking about the fact that he was the total sum of that realm, but your persepctive is a good one as well.



Let me try and make it clear for you:
Multi-verse - a unstated couple of universes.
It must be more than one, but it can end up without limits.

Omni-verse - all universes.
Not all multi-verses. as you said.
There isnt a specific spheare for each a multi-verse.

The things you see in you're "Marvel the end" copy is that each of the bigger spheares are universes, the middle and the small is as well.
Example for big universes (blue) : 616-universe
Example for meduium (green) : Richards's universe.
Example for small (pink/red) : Atzela's universe.

Now how many times does Thanos w/ Heart confirm that he destroyed a universe.
look at the begining of the first issue.
Thanos states that he destroyed a "universe".
And a universe is the same as "all reality" (see it's in singular, not plural, if it would be more than one it would be; "all realities"
Thanos later after he destroyed all that was (one universe)
All that is (Eternity) -- Past tense, all that was.

So how did a "universal" creature defeat an manifastation body of the Living Tribunal, Kurvac was also "unversal" and went agaisnt the judgment of the Living Tribunal, and he coudlent do squat.

Infinity Gauntlet affecting the Multi-verse?
Pfft. -- Magus created himself a universe. And from there he controlled the 616- and his own universe. Those two are the only once.

The Nullifier vs the Gauntlet.
Read carefully where Magus battles Quasar, Doom ect.

Quasar says: If I miss I might just flush the "universe" down the tube.
Still just a universe.

Back then the Nullifier wasent Multi-versal.


Both Marvel and DC agreed to make it like that.
The supreme being is a sum of the Multi-verse.


The Omniverse don't cosists of Multi-verses (well you can see it like that) it cosists of uni-verses.

By saying the Multi-verse you can mean the Omniverse.

Again:
Omni-verse: All realties
Multi-verse: "More than one" reality
Uni-verse: One reality



It's like apples in a tree.
Let's say there are 40 apples there.

uni-apple means one apple
Multi-apple means 2-40 apples
Omni-apple means 40 apples.



Yes he would cause the eradication of all the Multi-verse.
All the universes.
All time-lines.


Wanda rewrote one reality.
The Nullifier rewrote a Multi-verse. - 2-infinity universes.
Captain Britain can rewrite the Omni-verse. - infinity universes.




He stated a couple of times that he just absorbed one universe.


I bet they work in sybiotism, editor and wrtier produce.
They werent refering to specific people.



So you don't agree with the wrtiers being above?



Can they remove time itself, stop the creation from ever being made.



But still power of the writers.

And I beg of you guys.
Before flaming my post, read it carefully. -- Thank you.

show me where Stan Lee said Beyonder had the power of the writers, because Jim Shooter was the one in charge of the Beyonder during the SW saga

Originally posted by Thanos_THOTU
So you're simply going to ignore that statement ?

What?

Ofcourse I'm going to ignore that statement, that's not the basis for an argument,
"he had the power of the Writers and thats that." See how silly that sounds.


Originally posted by Thanos_THOTU
I was more thinking about the fact that he was the total sum of that realm, but your persepctive is a good one as well.

It's not my perspective, its a Marvel Fact.



Originally posted by Thanos_THOTU
Let me try and make it clear for you:
Multi-verse - a unstated couple of universes.
It must be more than one, but it can end up without limits.

Let me now make it clear for you.


The Multi-verse is INFINITE: Period.

http://img267.imageshack.us/img267/7421/multieternity16do.th.jpg

Originally posted by Thanos_THOTU
Omni-verse - all universes.
Not all multi-verses. as you said.

The Omni-verse is ALL Universes which equals to ALL Multi-verses.

Point out to me where you saw a Marvel Multi-verse that did not belong to the Omni-verse.


Originally posted by Thanos_THOTU
There isnt a specific spheare for each a multi-verse.

Each Blue Ball is a Multi-verse.


Originally posted by Thanos_THOTU
The things you see in you're "Marvel the end" copy is that each of the bigger spheares are universes, the middle and the small is as well.
Example for big universes (blue) : 616-universe
Example for meduium (green) : Richards's universe.
Example for small (pink/red) : Atzela's universe.


When Warlock first exited the Multi-verse, he entered a place called the Cosmic Vortex.
http://img272.imageshack.us/img272/3198/adamgoesbtwnuniverses15yh.th.jpg

In it, an INFINITE number of MULTI-VERSES are spiralling upward, while below lies Oblivion, (the ultimate Abstract in terms of everlasting), swallowing Multi-verses that collapse, are nullified, have a weakened Anchor (like Atleza) ect...
http://img272.imageshack.us/img272/7376/adamgoesbtwnuniverses26zw.th.jpg


These are MULTI-VERSES!


When I realized that Thanos DID in fact, Absorb MORE than just a UNIVERSE, that he actually absorbed ALL he could (which is the MULTI-VERSE)
http://img103.imageshack.us/img103/4876/teb9kg7.th.jpg

He absorbs Eternity and Infinity and there is still Space and star stuff behind
http://img375.imageshack.us/img375/741/t2gw1oa6.th.jpg
This is not a designed attack, he's saying it himself "it's Out of Control"

Like a raging drunk, who's not selective in a brawl, anything in the way goes, and with that KIND of Power, that means everything goes. (like it did)



Here it continues,



"For IF this BAND (LT, Eternity/Infinity) Could Defy Me...might not OTHERS* be equally Foolish?"
http://img245.imageshack.us/img245/4746/t6bi7.th.jpg
"Could I ALLOW ANY to question my divine Authority?"


"NO....So I CONTINUED to Absorb ALL that MIGHT Threaten my Reign...Until....
http://img381.imageshack.us/img381/2830/t7fq0.th.jpg


See...He's absorbing MORE SPACE now, where is this SPACE coming from if he already absorbed ALL of Space and Time?

I'll answer that,


It has to be coming from the Multi-verse, there is no other way to look at it.
*(That's WHO these OTHERS are that MIGHT be equally foolish, the rest of Space, in other words, the MULTI-VERSE)


WHO else COULD question his authority, except anyone left in the MULTI-VERSE.


CAN'T be the Universe, he just ABSORBED the Universe (Eternity/Infinity remember)




Now your saying to yourself, fine, that conclusively despicts Thanos absorbing the Multi-verse.

But Mr M showed scans of the Cosmic Vortex, where an INFINITE number of Multi-verses are,

How could Thanos have absorbed ALL he could, when he ONLY absorbed ONE Multi-verse?

Now we go back to the OMNIVERSAL structure:




The OMNI-VERSE and the rest of the Multi-verses rest with in the Cosmic Vortex.

See those little Purple Balls, thats where Atleza is (the Cosmic Anchor of the "616" Multi-verse)...

and every little Purple Ball is the Domain of an Anchor of a Multi-verse ...

Each Domain is Outside the Multiverse...Untouched by Space or Time....

The much bigger Blue Balls represent EACH a Multi-verse, and the SUM of the Blue Balls is the Omni-verse.
http://img336.imageshack.us/img336/8021/unilook17qj.th.jpg
http://img280.imageshack.us/img280/9715/unilook21qc.th.jpg

Anything Outside the Blue Balls is Untouched by Space & Time,
which Multi-Eternity/Infinity encompass.

See how the Blue Balls (Multi-verses) are separate from each other, and how the little Purple Balls (the Anchor's domain) are separated from the Blue Balls.

This is why Atleza, Gamora and Warlock were untouched, they were there, in A little Purple Ball, (the Anchors domain, Outside it's respective Multi-verse)

This why Thanos could not absorb more, he absorbed everything within that Blue Ball (a Multi-verse) and evidently, he could not reach any furthur
http://img165.imageshack.us/img165/991/allhecouldum7.th.jpg
"Nothing Remained"

Remember he was "Out of Control"

He kept on absorbing till there was nothing left for him to absorb (literally), HAD he been able to absorb everything Outside his Multi-verse, it would have been no problem with TOAA's power,

But Thanos was NOT able to do it, meaning that's as FAR as TOAA permitted his power to be used, absorption of a Multi-verse and Remaking that same Multi-verse, even though being the most powerful being in the Omni-verse.

Originally posted by Thanos_THOTU
Now how many times does Thanos w/ Heart confirm that he destroyed a universe.
look at the begining of the first issue.
Thanos states that he destroyed a "universe".
And a universe is the same as "all reality" (see it's in singular, not plural, if it would be more than one it would be; "all realities"
Thanos later after he destroyed all that was (one universe)
All that is (Eternity) -- Past tense, all that was.

This is why you should read the whole story in depth, so you won't end up confused like now. The Story line defines what Thanos had absorbed, as I explained above.

Example:

Roma Oversees the 616 Multi-verse personally,
http://img163.imageshack.us/img163/1483/roma1fh6.th.jpg


Roma says Understanding the Universe is hard enough, but she tends to Eternity
http://img163.imageshack.us/img163/32/roma2cd9.th.jpg
"Within it, ALL that ever was, ever is or ever will be exists"

Roma just called the Multi-verse, Eternity, Not Multi-Eternity and yet we know for a fact that she is the Multiversal Guardian.

http://img169.imageshack.us/img169/5075/romasithg4.th.jpg
"Roma she inherited the reins of the Multi-verse"

the title Multi-Eternity is not used much, we have to discern which Reality they're referring to according to the Story line.


ps. I have no idea what's "Richard's universe" (what are you talking about?)

Originally posted by Thanos_THOTU
So how did a "universal" creature defeat an manifastation body of the Living Tribunal,

Thanos had the power of TOAA and Thanos absorbed a Multi-verse and LT with this power.


Originally posted by Thanos_THOTU
Kurvac was also "unversal" and went agaisnt the judgment of the Living Tribunal, and he coudlent do squat.

Yea, back in 1982 in a WHAT IF no less, when LT was only allowed to use Super Novas.

"he couldn't do squat" you say,

funny I recall LT disconnecting that Universe from the rest of the Multi-verse and Korvac "couldn't do squat" about that either.


Originally posted by Thanos_THOTU
Infinity Gauntlet affecting the Multi-verse?
Pfft. -- Magus created himself a universe. And from there he controlled the 616- and his own universe. Those two are the only once.

Yea, and it was an INCOMPLETE IG, meaning NOTHING in comparison with a Complete Infinity Gauntlet.

Thanos only wanted to give Death ONE Universe with the IG, and Warlock was a Multiversal threat with the IG, or else LT would not have judged against him.


Originally posted by Thanos_THOTU
The Nullifier vs the Gauntlet.
Read carefully where Magus battles Quasar, Doom ect.

Quasar says: If I miss I might just flush the "universe" down the tube.
Still just a universe.

Back then the Nullifier wasent Multi-versal.

Says who? You?

The UN, even while it was popularly known as a Universal destroyer has been used to erase ONE individual.

It can affect ONE person, a Galaxy, a Universe or a Multi-verse.


Originally posted by Thanos_THOTU
Both Marvel and DC agreed to make it like that.
The supreme being is a sum of the Multi-verse.

Thats been ret-conned and I don't debate Company Cross-overs.

In any case the Supreme being is the sum total of the Omni-verse (ALL the Multi-verses in Marvel)


Originally posted by Thanos_THOTU
The Omniverse don't cosists of Multi-verses (well you can see it like that) it cosists of uni-verses.

The Omni-verse is EVERY possible Alternate Reality = EVERY Universe = EVERY Multi-verse


Originally posted by Thanos_THOTU
By saying the Multi-verse you can mean the Omniverse.

The Omni-verse = an INFINITE number of Multi-verses.

So its obviously not the same thing.


Originally posted by Thanos_THOTU
Again:
Omni-verse: All realties
Multi-verse: "More than one" reality
Uni-verse: One reality

According to Marvel, the Omni-verse is an Infinity of Multi-verses and each Multi-verse is Infinite too.

The Omni-verse is within the Cosmic Vortex, and thats Infinite aswell.

Originally posted by Thanos_THOTU
Yes he would cause the eradication of all the Multi-verse.
All the universes.
All time-lines.

Just like Captain Britain can do.

Captain Britain is the one that keeps the Omniversal Timestream in Order.

Omniversal Timestream = ALL Timelines in Marvel.


Originally posted by Thanos_THOTU
Wanda rewrote one reality.

Wanda rewrote the 616 Universe and the Chaos Wave she produced was collapsing the Omni-verse.


Originally posted by Thanos_THOTU
The Nullifier rewrote a Multi-verse. - 2-infinity universes.

The Multi-verse has an INFINTIE number of Universes.

Read the Multi-Eternity Scan.


Originally posted by Thanos_THOTU
He stated a couple of times that he just absorbed one universe.

If you would be so kind as to point out to me when Thanos specifically said,
"I absorbed ONE Universe"

Thanos calls it the Universe, but by the same token Thanos calls it an ACTUALITY, which ALWAYS stands for Multi-verse.

http://img151.imageshack.us/img151/9448/allhecould5ip7.th.jpg
"You & Gamora were OUTSIDE this Reality, tending Atleza, this Actuality's Cosmic Anchor"


Originally posted by Thanos_THOTU
So you don't agree with the wrtiers being above?

I only debate with On Panel evidence as the backbone of claims.


Originally posted by Thanos_THOTU
Can they remove time itself, stop the creation from ever being made.

Dude, anyone who can Remake Eternity has control over time, for Eternity is the personification of TIME.

There are different levels of Time ofcourse:

Universal Time
Multiversal Time
Omniversal Time

So if the LT is the multiversal judge and there is more than one multiverse, then who judges the other multiverses?

Originally posted by celestialdemon
So if the LT is the multiversal judge and there is more than one multiverse, then who judges the other multiverses? LT is Omnipresent, and can exist in all places at once.

so LT still judges the other multiverses

How was the Chaos Wave stopped? And what exactly is it ?

Damn..something that can ACTUALLY pose a thread to classic Beyonder...wieerddddddd

Originally posted by celestialdemon
So if the LT is the multiversal judge and there is more than one multiverse, then who judges the other multiverses?

LT is the Judge of ALL the Multi-verses

http://img524.imageshack.us/img524/2994/lt2cm.th.jpg

Originally posted by Lord Urizen
How was the Chaos Wave stopped? And what exactly is it ?

Damn..something that can ACTUALLY pose a thread to classic Beyonder...wieerddddddd

It was never really stopped, more like contained.

And I'm not entirely sure about this but, I think TOAA was involved.

Captain Britain says, "the Cosmos is healing itself" and they were dealing with a Breach on an Omniversal Scale.


To Stop the Chaos Wave,

Meggan had to harness the Power of the Beyonders, as she entered the RIFT (Inside the opening in the Wall of Omniversal Causality)

"I can Harness the Powers of the BEYOND"
http://img84.imageshack.us/img84/4186/m1jm9.th.jpg


First Meggan draws energy from both Earth and Otherworld, to enter the Rift, because though the Chaos Wave has not reached the Breach just yet, there's already an incredible force pushing its way through.
http://img180.imageshack.us/img180/491/m10bm8.th.jpg


Once inside the Rift, with all the Power of the Beyond, her job was to hold the Chaos Wave for as long as she could while Captain Britain and Betsy Braddock (his Sister) close the Breach and Rachel Summers seals it from the Outside.

http://img175.imageshack.us/img175/4112/m3wd0.th.jpg


Meggan enters the Rift, and Harnesses the Power of the Beyond fully.

""Only She can claim the Pan-Dimensional Power of the Beyond for her own"
http://img180.imageshack.us/img180/4538/m4fy1.th.jpg
"Knows that by her side, ALL things are possible"


"Until He sees what she's up against"
http://img182.imageshack.us/img182/2103/m5kk1.th.jpg

http://img183.imageshack.us/img183/9048/m6xc4.th.jpg
Meggan (with the Power of the Beyonders) manages to Hold the Chaos Wave for a short while.


Captain Britain, and Betsy hold the Breach together while Rachel seals it
http://img237.imageshack.us/img237/5742/m7ie9.th.jpg
The Chaos Wave finally hits the Breach, but the seal holds.


Actually the Omni-verse kicks into action and seals the Breach completely
http://img237.imageshack.us/img237/8757/m8rd4.th.jpg
"the Cosmos is Healing itself before our very eyes"


Even with the Power of the BEYOND, Meggan didn't last.
http://img237.imageshack.us/img237/681/m9tu1.th.jpg

somtimes I wonder how my fellow comic heads come up with the awnsers they do. how in any form or fashion was Wanda anywhere as powerful as classic Beyonder ? her power was planetary at best. her sphere of influence was contained to earth(lings) . Beyonder beats abstract beings with ease. where's the comparisions ? a lot of
Wanda's feast were accompinaied (sp?) with a extreme amount of hyperboyle.

Originally posted by complexbrother
somtimes I wonder how my fellow comic heads come up with the awnsers they do.

By reading Comics.


Originally posted by complexbrother
how in any form or fashion was Wanda anywhere as powerful as classic Beyonder ?

With control of the Chaos Wave, she's more powerful.


Originally posted by complexbrother
her power was planetary at best. her sphere of influence was contained to earth(lings) . Beyonder beats abstract beings with ease. where's the comparisions ? a lot of
Wanda's feast were accompinaied (sp?) with a extreme amount of hyperboyle.


Wanda Re-Creating the 616 Reality

http://img154.imageshack.us/img154/6653/w2oe5.th.jpg

http://img140.imageshack.us/img140/5301/w1ti8.th.jpg

NEXT PANEL

the Universe, the Past, Present and Future has been REMADE
http://img144.imageshack.us/img144/8318/w3zc5.th.jpg


AGAIN


"What's happening on 616"
http://img139.imageshack.us/img139/1783/w20sp4.th.jpg


"Her ability to altar probability got Super charged"
http://img50.imageshack.us/img50/3817/wanda1km4.th.jpg

"She's starting to REMAKE Reality 616... again" (more than once she did it)
http://img50.imageshack.us/img50/4126/wanad2jy7.th.jpg

"You might not even exist anymore in whatever New Reality takes its place"
http://img326.imageshack.us/img326/5289/wanda3pi5.th.jpg

"Who knows how she'll change Everything this time"
http://img363.imageshack.us/img363/355/wanda4iu5.th.jpg



continues in the next post...

AGAIN


http://img435.imageshack.us/img435/7594/w1vi8.th.jpg

http://img435.imageshack.us/img435/6563/w2bu5.th.jpg


AGAIN


http://img296.imageshack.us/img296/8128/w3qs5.th.jpg

http://img277.imageshack.us/img277/3286/w4tp9.th.jpg


AGAIN


http://img296.imageshack.us/img296/5451/w5iw8.th.jpg


AGAIN


http://img170.imageshack.us/img170/9313/w10sq9.th.jpg

http://img98.imageshack.us/img98/2359/w11xt8.th.jpg

http://img119.imageshack.us/img119/8791/wyz7.th.jpg

Remade
http://img445.imageshack.us/img445/9958/w1nt5.th.jpg

Originally posted by complexbrother
somtimes I wonder how my fellow comic heads come up with the awnsers they do. how in any form or fashion was Wanda anywhere as powerful as classic Beyonder ? her power was planetary at best. her sphere of influence was contained to earth(lings) . Beyonder beats abstract beings with ease. where's the comparisions ? a lot of
Wanda's feast were accompinaied (sp?) with a extreme amount of hyperboyle.
Read comics

I've been reading comics for over 30 years and maby some of my brethren see somthing in these comics that I just don't, won't, or can't see.

the images you just showed me of wanda doing her presto chango thing, it is not universal in scope, it has affected the tiny blue speck we live on, but most def' not the whole galixy, universe, or multiverse .

multiversal is what Thanos did in the Infinity Gauntlet, or what the Anti Monitor did in Crisis on Infinite Earths.

http://www.x-raycomics.com/scans/crisis_infinite_earths_3.jpg

Originally posted by complexbrother
the images you just showed me of wanda doing her presto chango thing, it is not universal in scope, it has affected the tiny blue speck we live on, but most def' not the whole galixy, universe, or multiverse .

multiversal is what Thanos did in the Infinity Gauntlet, or what the Anti Monitor did in Crisis on Infinite Earths.

Wanda even accelerated Genis-Vell's powers to Insane Genis levels, and even Beyond that, (like cracking Time and Space in Two)

With his Cosmic Awareness he knew something was wrong with the UNIVERSE, but he couldn't figure it out.

Genis begins Blinking The Universe IN and OUT of existence (This is Beyond his scope, only when he was INSANE did he destroy Eternity)

http://img214.imageshack.us/img214/9793/w30cw9.th.jpg

"For one second, EVERYTHING Collapsed, and Expanded, like an Accordian"
http://img148.imageshack.us/img148/2769/w31cd3.th.jpg

"Private Vell has become a Spacial Conduit"
http://img148.imageshack.us/img148/3838/w32br6.th.jpg
"We must find him soon, OR...

"OR this entire Universe might Disappear in the Blink of an Eye"
http://img165.imageshack.us/img165/2193/w33vb3.th.jpg

Genis ends up splitting Time and Space in Two
http://img141.imageshack.us/img141/1253/w34cb3.th.jpg

Genis blinks the Universe In and Out once more
http://img85.imageshack.us/img85/7870/w35mr1.th.jpg

http://img86.imageshack.us/img86/6818/w36pd9.th.jpg


Finally Genis allows himself to be shut down by using a "Bioagent" that Slows Down his Metabolic rate to the point of Catatonia.


But like you said, if your just Not going to see it, enjoy how pretty they are atleast.

Originally posted by Mr Master
LT is the Judge of ALL the Multi-verses

http://img524.imageshack.us/img524/2994/lt2cm.th.jpg

So being the judge of "ALL the Multi-verses" makes him Omniversal, doesn't it? If his power is omniversal in scope and even he feared pre-retconned Beyonder, what does that make the Beyonder?

Originally posted by celestialdemon
So being the judge of "ALL the Multi-verses" makes him Omniversal, doesn't it? If his power is omniversal in scope and even he feared pre-retconned Beyonder, what does that make the Beyonder?

demon, if you look at my super thread, you'l notice I rank Beyonder second only to TOAA and THOU

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=425758&perpage=20&highlight=&pagenumber=1

The Chaos Wave was not even mentioned in my Hierarchy, I don't think Marvel will allow Wanda to control such power.

it's funny that Wanda supposiedly has all this power, yet she can be taken out by a simple blow to the neck .

oh and that thing with Genis-veil it was said on panel that he had split (disrupted/warped) time and space for only in a 500 K (750 mile) radius around him. that's no where near universal recking power.

Originally posted by complexbrother
it's funny that Wanda supposiedly has all this power, yet she can be taken out by a simple blow to the neck .

LOL.


While she's controlling Reality Outside, CREATING a Reality INSIDE and on top of that, she just went through FOUR pages of emotional turmoil

This is when Hawkeye sneaks up on her and shot her dead in the heart
http://img155.imageshack.us/img155/9733/w4dn4.th.jpg


Seems like she's dead
http://img79.imageshack.us/img79/1153/w7sc2.th.jpg
Notice the arrows Position, right on the side of the Heart,

Hawkeye came to KILL, READ the scan.

But she CAN'T Die...arrow in her back deconstructs...everything is as was.
http://img170.imageshack.us/img170/6858/w6dw8.th.jpg
"If I couldn't KILL you"......that's right buddy, you couldn't

Hawkeye shot another arrow, almost immediately after the first
http://img170.imageshack.us/img170/6125/w8gg5.th.jpg
THIS time...Wanda KNEW it was coming, observe the difference now folks

Wanda breaks Hawkeye up into little blocks...forget the arrow.
http://img152.imageshack.us/img152/9418/w9cn5.th.jpg


Originally posted by complexbrother
oh and that thing with Genis-veil it was said on panel that he had split (disrupted/warped) time and space for only in a 500 K (750 mile) radius around him. that's no where near universal recking power.

The Scan clearly says he BISECTED Time and Space
http://img141.imageshack.us/img141/1253/w34cb3.th.jpg

Even Ronan is SPLIT down the middle.

Originally posted by complexbrother
oh and that thing with Genis-veil it was said on panel that he had split (disrupted/warped) time and space for only in a 500 K (750 mile) radius around him. that's no where near universal recking power.

WHy are you ignoring the fact that she gave him the ability to BLINK the Universe In and Out of existence?


Genis begins Blinking The Universe IN and OUT of existence

http://img214.imageshack.us/img214/9793/w30cw9.th.jpg

"For one second, EVERYTHING Collapsed, and Expanded, like an Accordian"
http://img148.imageshack.us/img148/2769/w31cd3.th.jpg


Genis blinks the Universe In and Out once more
http://img85.imageshack.us/img85/7870/w35mr1.th.jpg

http://img86.imageshack.us/img86/6818/w36pd9.th.jpg

Originally posted by Mr Master
demon, if you look at my super thread, you'l notice I rank Beyonder second only to TOAA and THOU

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=425758&perpage=20&highlight=&pagenumber=1

The Chaos Wave was not even mentioned in my Hierarchy, I don't think Marvel will allow Wanda to control such power.

I know that you rank Beyonder above the LT. I just don't understand how a power that almost none of the abstracts even cared about could be more powerful than a being they all feared.

Originally posted by celestialdemon
I know that you rank Beyonder above the LT. I just don't understand how a power that almost none of the abstracts even cared about could be more powerful than a being they all feared.

But Wanda is not more powerful than Beyonder, the Chaos Wave is what holds more destructive energy.

Ofcourse it's Chaos Magic so it comes from Wanda, but Wanda had no control over it, except for her creating it, it was more or less self perpetuating.


And the Abstracts weren't around cause there was nothing they could do.
She was Remaking Eternity on a whim several times over, she was collapsing the Omni-verse.
Thats why Captain Britain and Roma stepped in, Omniversal threats in their department, not even LT could anything about the Wave, nor the Power of the Beyonders which Meggan harnessed fully, nor Excalibur and Cap's Amulet which can Re-Write the Omni-verse.

I've done some futher researches.

I think you see a universe as a grape,
a multiverse as a cluster of grapes
and the omniverse as the tree.

But the fact is, if you have two unconnected universes and you take them and say this is two universes or this is a multi-verse.
In other words, a multiverse don't have to consist of more than two universes.

They say that the omniverse is every possibility-alternate-timeline.
Other words unlimited.

Now, it was also stated before the 80s that, "the Multiverse" consisted of an infinity amount of universes.

"All of the Multi-verse" = Infinity Universes = Omniverse

Beyonder did had "not" the power of millions of Multi-verses.

He had all the power of the "rest of the multiverse" combinded millions of times.

Why such limited amount?
Molecule man was inte the Multi-verse at that time as well.
And his power was a fraction of Beyonder's.

A million's-th piece of it.

That's how I see it.

And the chaos wave was not Wanda's power, it was the power created form "all the universes", she somehow just merged it.

As go for the Thanos theory I'm still a bit confused, there are still some things een in your theory that dont goes as they should.

But still Beyonder is #1 -- As I see it.