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Now this is a classic match. We all know what the canon result was. But here's a what-if? What it was a fair fight? What if Gen wasn't weakened and dying from Leukemia?


Gen: Master of several chinese martial arts, pressure points, respected assasin in HK, the only SF character to be able to switch styles in mid fight and, also the only person to ever survive the shun goku satsu.


Gouki: The greatest living master of Shotokan Ansatsuken, killer of his own brother Gouken, of his master Goutetsu, of M. Bison, of Gill (Gill ressurrected, unknown to Gouki, but the point stands ) only living master of the shun goku satsu technique.


This fight is generally considered to have ended in Gen's demise, due to his condition and gradual weakening. What happens this time? The raging demon vs. the master assasin. Ready..., FIGHT!

Gouki still takes it, but i'm a fanboy, i imagine if i wasn't probably Gen BUT i am so HA

You haven't read much of the street fighter canon, have you? Ok, Gouki takes it according to you. Tell me why.

3 words man, Shun-Goku-Satsu

Originally posted by Kaled
3 words man, Shun-Goku-Satsu

Which gen, and any perosn versed in mysticism can escape.

*sighs* alright its because Gouki is just way better than Gen, he's stronger, faster and Ansatsuken is argueably the best fighting art in the games

Ok, first off, Ashtar is right, Gen is so far the only person to be able to defeat the shun goku satsu. 2nd, Gen is a master assasin, have you ever played as him in SFA2? He's one of the best characters in the game. Gen has a super called the death touch. When hit, a countdown timer appears above the opponent's head, which goes down for each hit landed during the super. When the timer goes to zero, the opponent takes damage and is automatically dizzied. At level 3, the damage is very high. He also has the Kouga technique, which is like a slower version of Spiderman's maximum spider from MVC2.

That being said, this is a very close fight. With the shun goku satsu being a non-factor, it depends on who can land the better super.

This fight is arguably the closest matchup in the SF verse. I'll admit Gen is an expert character, and if he wasn't an ill guy in a deathmatch, that fight could have gone either way. Plus the feat of nullifying the usually garunteed death of the Shun Goku Satsu is a feat worthy of my respect and praise. Hell man, in the Udon Comics, Gen actually DEFEATED a younger Akuma.

But, I still firmly beleive Akuma is the stronger of the two combatants, why? his feats since Alpha speak for themselves, ever since the Alpha 2 encounter with Gen, Akuma has gotten a whole lot stronger, by leaps and bounds, I don't think Gen has what it takes to challenge him anymore.

^ once again same, minus some of the logics, and know-how, and you'd better chuck in some randomness an such, but yep agreed 100%

Hmm, good point. Gouki has gotten far too strong at this point. Ok, it's obvious Gouki is too strong right now. But what about when he fought Gen? I'm making a change.

Gen (SFA2) vs. Gouki (SFA2)

Now the two are far more closely matched. Darkstorm, you're still sticking with Gouki?

Dim mak (Death touch) has no effect on gouki, he ate Zan Ei' like nothing.

Originally posted by TricksterPriest
Hmm, good point. Gouki has gotten far too strong at this point. Ok, it's obvious Gouki is too strong right now. But what about when he fought Gen? I'm making a change.

Gen (SFA2) vs. Gouki (SFA2)

Now the two are far more closely matched. Darkstorm, you're still sticking with Gouki?

hmmm, your right its alot closer, but it still think Gouki would win

Gen should be able to win, his experience goes a long way.

Yes, I have to say, even though the fight is considerably closer under those rules, i'm sticking with Gouki. hie's willingness to go all out right from the start against a truly worthy challenger makes him a better candidate, I know Gen has the same streak in him, but Gouki's overflowing Ki advantage here would most likely win the day for him.

Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero
Yes, I have to say, even though the fight is considerably closer under those rules, i'm sticking with Gouki. hie's willingness to go all out right from the start against a truly worthy challenger makes him a better candidate, I know Gen has the same streak in him, but Gouki's overflowing Ki advantage here would most likely win the day for him.

Gen can use Ki like gouki as well, it's jst not visible to the human eye.

yeah but even so, Gouki is a more serious opponent, and does attack with more aggresion....like a sith

Originally posted by Emperor Ashtar
Gen can use Ki like gouki as well, it's jst not visible to the human eye.

I know that, but the Levels Gouki produces are far in exess of that, thats why I said Superior ki capability, rather than he has use of Ki and Gen does not, therefore Akuma has a serious advantage

Still, Gen has shown to be able to block significant Ki energy attacks before...

Originally posted by Kaled
yeah but even so, Gouki is a more serious opponent, and does attack with more aggresion....like a sith

That's the nature of his style, it doesn't make him any better.

Originally posted by Emperor Ashtar
That's the nature of his style, it doesn't make him any better.

well, it sorta does, most games i'v ever play its the aggresion that wins, pluss it makes the fight more brutal so its a must for me

Originally posted by Kaled
well, it sorta does, most games i'v ever play its the aggresion that wins, pluss it makes the fight more brutal so its a must for me

Were going by canon aspects not gameplay, I gouki's style is more brutal. I don't see how it's any better than a style that allows you kill with a touch.

shucks sorry captian serious

i'm through with this thread anyway i'v said what i think so

and i'm merly pointing out in the games Gouki is miles better than Gen, i mean if you can't beat them in the game they originate from what they good for? (this is my vs my friends and we're all of similar skill)

Ashtar, when you said the zan-ei didn't work on Gouki, couldn't that have been due to his weakness and leukemia? And in terms of experience, you have to give that to Gen as Ashtar said. Gen is over 80 at least and still in very good health. Not to mention he's a master assasin in HK who kills with bare hands and has been doing so for a generation or two. And he trained Chun-li, Yang, and Yung Lee. Albeit none of them know his assasination styles. The problem is, we have no idea how much his dying and ill health from leukemia weakened him.

Akuma's style usually does kill with a touch... a flesh rending, bone shattering touch, but a touch none the less. What makes Gen different from akuma is thet Gen is more subtle, since he is an assasin, he has to move silently and not leave traces (other than his victims), so he moves and strikes much like a ninja, but without the weapons and without spilling blood.

Akuma on the other hand, is incredibly vicious, not caring if anyone sees his destructiive acts, and ovten leaving his victims in a squishy bloody mess on the ground.

Originally posted by TricksterPriest
The problem is, we have no idea how much his dying and ill health from leukemia weakened him.

yeah i know, thats a bummer, i mean speaking from a medical point of view he should have been weakened him to about 80-90% of his true strength, but that a normal human, we can't pretned to know how it would effect someone ass powerful

Is cool as gouki is, he isn't unbeatable. Capcom never made him to be unbeatable. He's lost to gouken before and he never really has easy victories. He's very very powerful storyline, and has monsterous feats, But he isn't written like a deus Ex machina. Which is why I like street fighter.

Originally posted by Emperor Ashtar
Is cool as gouki is, he isn't unbeatable. Capcom never made him to be unbeatable. He's lost to gouken before and he never really has easy victories. He's very very powerful storyline, and has monsterous feats, But he isn't written like a deus Ex machina. Which is why I like street fighter.

lol wtf is you on about

no he's not unbeatable, but Gen is hardly at the top of the power list is he??

Originally posted by Kaled
lol wtf is you on about

no he's not unbeatable, but Gen is hardly at the top of the power list is he??

I just said he's not unbeatable, and that's what I like about gouki.
Yeah, gen is up there.

*check the power list* no he's not, juyst to verify, i mean the power list of all games and all therir characters, Gen is most definatly not up there

No, Akuma isn't undefeatable, thats granted. He has lost and drawn some of his matches (He lost to Ryu, even though he was holding back the majority oif his power then). But he has also had many important victories, the prime examples of this is Gotetsu's death, Gouken's death, and even the toppling of Sfers greatest boss, Bison.

Now, I still beleive firmly that Akuma will win, but it will take a heck of alot more effort here. My basis is this, if he can defeat Gouken and Goutetsu, he should be able to defeat Gen.

Gen is being slept on, especially by you Kaled. Have you ever seen Gen and Gouki's pre-fight intro in SFA3? They each do their signature moves, zan-ei and shun goku satsu, on each other, and then start the fight. Gen, canon wise, IMO, is stronger than Oro with seals. Gen, without his illness and at full strength, who knows? He was able to go toe to toe with Gouki and survive the shun goku satsu, while dying from leukemia and coughing up blood. Gen might be able to beat M. Bison at full power with psycho drive, but then again, maybe that's too far. Of course Shin Akuma would probably murder Gen, but Shin Akuma murders everybody except God Rugal and maybe Unsealed Oro.

Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero

Now, I still beleive firmly that Akuma will win, but it will take a heck of alot more effort here. My basis is this, if he can defeat Gouken and Goutetsu, he should be able to defeat Gen.

I don't see how, when his strongest move isn't even applicable. I don't think him beating gouken and goutetsu holds any bearing here.

1) He fought gouken once before and lost, so, he has experience with his tactic.

2)Shun goku satsu is the only reason why he killed Goutetsu, and it's not applicable here.

Originally posted by TricksterPriest
Gen is being slept on, especially by you Kaled. Have you ever seen Gen and Gouki's pre-fight intro in SFA3? They each do their signature moves, zan-ei and shun goku satsu, on each other, and then start the fight. Gen, canon wise, IMO, is stronger than Oro with seals. Gen, without his illness and at full strength, who knows? He was able to go toe to toe with Gouki and survive the shun goku satsu, while dying from leukemia and coughing up blood. Gen might be able to beat M. Bison at full power with psycho drive, but then again, maybe that's too far. Of course Shin Akuma would probably murder Gen, but Shin Akuma murders everybody except God Rugal and maybe Unsealed Oro.

Gen is nowhere near as strong as oro, he's only a mtach for gouki in alpha. let alone alpha 3 bison.

Originally posted by TricksterPriest
Gen is being slept on, especially by you Kaled. Have you ever seen Gen and Gouki's pre-fight intro in SFA3? They each do their signature moves, zan-ei and shun goku satsu, on each other, and then start the fight. Gen, canon wise, IMO, is stronger than Oro with seals. Gen, without his illness and at full strength, who knows? He was able to go toe to toe with Gouki and survive the shun goku satsu, while dying from leukemia and coughing up blood. Gen might be able to beat M. Bison at full power with psycho drive, but then again, maybe that's too far. Of course Shin Akuma would probably murder Gen, but Shin Akuma murders everybody except God Rugal and maybe Unsealed Oro.

i think your overestimating him if your saying to me he's at the top on the power list, i got him down as like 2/3 of the way up, but thats not so high, if you think he should be higher, you need to play some more games

Originally posted by TricksterPriest
Gen is being slept on, especially by you Kaled. Have you ever seen Gen and Gouki's pre-fight intro in SFA3? They each do their signature moves, zan-ei and shun goku satsu, on each other, and then start the fight. Gen, canon wise, IMO, is stronger than Oro with seals. Gen, without his illness and at full strength, who knows? He was able to go toe to toe with Gouki and survive the shun goku satsu, while dying from leukemia and coughing up blood. Gen might be able to beat M. Bison at full power with psycho drive, but then again, maybe that's too far. Of course Shin Akuma would probably murder Gen, but Shin Akuma murders everybody except God Rugal and maybe Unsealed Oro.

I'm not trying to play down Gen, and i know that the Gouken and Goutetsu fightys arrn't nessisarily admissable as evindence thet Akume would DEFEAT Gen, but Akuma has displayed the capability to defeat opponents that are stronger than he is in the past, and Gen isn't stronger then Akuma, maybe AS Strong, but not stronger.

I know that Gen nullified the Shun Goku Satsu once, but can he do it repatedly? or is Akuma forced to resort to using the other messatsu techniques? The biggest question in my mind is, are the Messatsu techniques enough? not one of them is quite as powerful as the Shun Goku Satsu, but each of them is a Death Technique none the less.

Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero
I'm not trying to play down Gen, and i know that the Gouken and Goutetsu fightys arrn't nessisarily admissable as evindence thet Akume would DEFEAT Gen, but Akuma has displayed the capability to defeat opponents that are stronger than he is in the past, and Gen isn't stronger then Akuma, maybe AS Strong, but not stronger.

I know that Gen nullified the Shun Goku Satsu once, but can he do it repatedly? or is Akuma forced to resort to using the other messatsu techniques? The biggest question in my mind is, are the Messatsu techniques enough? not one of them is quite as powerful as the Shun Goku Satsu, but each of them is a Death Technique none the less.

Wait, we are using gouki from alpha and not his current incarnation. Because if it's current, Gouki wins with ease.

I'll admit beating Bison with Psycho drive was too far. I do think he's up there on the power list. And I know he could beat SF2 Bison, if not SFA3 Bison. I think Shin Akuma was one of the only people who could beat that monster outright. I said Gen was as strong as SEALED ORO, not full power. I'm looking at picking the M.A.D. option. Maybe narrowly giving it to Gouki, but even if Gen loses, Gouki is probably going to limp away with severe injuries, several internal.

Darkstorm, you want to take this one? I can't think of anything to add.

Edit: I said Alpha 2 earlier. I'm well aware currently Gouki is far too strong for this be a fair fight.

Can't we just leave it as a stalemate, this is just like Gouki vs Oro.

nah this is fun. I'm enjoying defending Gen. And we have no idea how strong Oro is. So it's not the same.

Agreed, as I said earlier, this was so close in the games as it is, and even closer in this debate.

so either Stalemate, or M.A.D, maybe as Priest said, slightly Gouki, but far more likely to be a Draw.

It looks like this one is pretty much settled. And yet Gouki is winning on the polls. Oh well. Good job Darkstorm. And btw, Goutetsu either did not know the secret to stopping the shun goku satsu or he didn't try to because he died with a smile on his face from being proud of his student.

Originally posted by TricksterPriest
It looks like this one is pretty much settled. And yet Gouki is winning on the polls. Oh well. Good job Darkstorm. And btw, Goutetsu either did not know the secret to stopping the shun goku satsu or he didn't try to because he died with a smile on his face from being proud of his student.

No, he got caught of gaurd while performing a messatus gouhadou.

Caught off guard maybe, but he still died with a smile.

yeah i know... Beleive it or not, when a student defeats their teacher (Even in this case), the teacher normally feels great pride.

Call it some strange sense of loyalty or whatnot, but I think that goutetsu was proud of the fact that someone he taught since infancy had surpassed him. and this was the reason he let the Shun Goku Satsu strike him.

Originally posted by TricksterPriest
Caught off guard maybe, but he still died with a smile.

He died with a smile because he enjoyed the battle, gen would have done the samething. The Ansatsuken fighters seem to enjoy dying in glorious battles in street fighter.

And what Asthar said too

Agreed, though Gouken was probably the lone exception to that rule.

No, no, I think he died with a smile as well, because his brother had surpassed him, even though he used Ansatsuken as it was originally intended. Not sure if its a rule anywhere though.

*wipes sweat from his face* Phrew!

Originally posted by Emperor Ashtar
Wait, we are using gouki from alpha and not his current incarnation. Because if it's current, Gouki wins with ease.

If it was Alpha vs. Alpha I'd say near tie, Gen DID escape Shungokusatsu, but with a heavy price. Akuma sinced the man was weakened and left him alone, Akuma doesn't pick on those who aren't worthy. Akuma is a much more outright destructive opponent, and Gen is more stealthy. But he doesn't have some of the more advantegous moves Gouki has, such as warping and whatnot.

totaly Gouki

But Close!!!! They know they can't underestimate each other

EDIT : I'm going to post some rare Japanese scans TODAY!!!!!!!

If this is current Gouki, he's going to take this.

The person who made this thread, I think said both are from Street Fighter Alpha 2 versions.

your sig rocks Gouki thumbsup

Me, if it's me thanks a lot bro'.

Originally posted by Gouki
The person who made this thread, I think said both are from Street Fighter Alpha 2 versions. If that is so than I cant say who will win for sure but if thsi is their most current versions than Gouki is going to crush him, rather Gen is sick or not.

Originally posted by Gouki
Me, if it's me thanks a lot bro'.

yeah, its way cool