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thanks thats a great read!!

Its so true...usually when a character dies and comes back like that they have shifted Psychologically!

Its not going to be Jack returning to his pirate ways (he's going to remain pirate)..Its going to involve Elizabeth..it usually symbolizes that an asjustment has been made so that one person can be allowed in to that character..and only one person!

And yes..underneath much of what he has...he is empty..Its just common sense..no person can have everything in the world and be happy if there isnt someone there wit them..something that can love him back for once.

Wow T. that thesis was awesome. I can't believe I read all that. I was glued to it the entire time. I couldn't stop reading it.

I dont agree about that legend of Jack sparrow falling apart in AWE because he's returning to hiis old self his old self was still there once he embraced piracy (liz saying she's read about what he's done)..but gradually it has dissapeared..

remember he showed the scars to Elizabeth? All of those happened whilst he was a pirate..

Its like he was the legend and then he let slip an became a weakling and IMO it happened when he started to be with Tia/Calypso..depression taking over etc

again ONE person has shown an interest in his past. That is Elizabeth

Interesting how its only 13 years he's been a pirate...VERY interesting..I would say that for 6 years Jack was still brave as a pirate..then throughout the final 7? he let SLIP, he's in a trance..this is when Calypso/Tia came into his life I bet you! the Jack we see in movie 1& early 2 is there because of that! Elizabeth is now entering his mind on 7th(13th) year..the longing to be with her..to "return" to her. In doing so he returns to HIMSELF, the man/pirate he was 7 years previously.

v.true Lovelyone, and i have a feeling that Jack is going to realise this by AWE...

...and i have a feeling that elizabeth will realise it too.but then she will 'nobely' marry will and then become a widow...bah humbug!

i cant wait now, you know....
this film will be filled with so much unresolved sexual tension that i wont be able to stand it !!!!
all the looks..the stolen glances...and i BET there will be a few innuendos somewhere!!!

Yeah!!^^

Also its very interesting how Jack seems to have been very lucky during his time as a pirate..only recently however..before hand (first 6 years) he has been very badly injured..and IMO during the final 7 years he's just been "lucky" (again I believe because of Calypso)..and on the 13th his luck runs out Davy is on his ass again...13 is an unlucky number remember..

wow good catch 7-lucky 13-bad, could that mean something?

I swear 7 is a lucky number? or a magical number or something..

Elizabeth entering his life on the 13th is not the unlucky thing..she is what is going to help now that his luck has run out..she's the reason for him to stay strong..he's now going to have to fight because the luck is not there anymore..again people only really fight when they are fighting for someone else.

Originally posted by LovelyOne
I swear 7 is a lucky number? or a magical number or something..

is a lucky number, well for people who believe in those myths. I'm actually a believer. Oh and everyone don't forget this Friday is Friday the 13th.

again guys I'm getting this 7 years thing from the Odyssey, Odysseus and Calypso..she's the reason why Odysseus is forced to become weak for 7 years after previously being very brave and masculine..during the 7 years he is forced to embrace his feminine side lol (weaker side) and then on the 7th he gets active longing for penelope and this is the thing that makes him return to the man he once was..but had he not had those 7 years with Calypso he would have never been able to finish his quest...it was essentail that he have those 7 years of "hibernation" as a character..because this is what makes him stronger in the long run. IMO Elizabeth helped that happen too

Of course Jack wasnt with Tia/Calypso for 7 years thats the difference..but I think weakness of Jack was still there even after he left her possibly a few years before..

You are right Lovelyone, Lizy is what is keeping him strong in his darker moments. She has given him the strength and the courage for him to face all the obstacles. In a way Liz is making him a different person. Thats the power of Love.

Originally posted by LovelyOne
again guys I'm getting this 7 years thing from the Odyssey, Odysseus and Calypso..she's the reason why Odysseus is forced to become weak for 7 years after previously being very brave and masculine..during the 7 years he is forced to embrace his feminine side lol (weaker side) and then on the 7th he gets active longing for penelope and this is the thing that makes him return to the man he once was..but had he not had those 7 years with Calypso he would have never been able to finish his quest...it was essentail that he have those 7 years of "hibernation" as a character..because this is what makes him stronger in the long run. IMO Elizabeth helped that happen too

Of course Jack wasnt with Tia/Calypso for 7 years thats the difference..but I think weakness of Jack was still there even after he left her possibly a few years before..


And I believe that Jack started to change when he decided to jump in to the water and rescue Liz in POTC1. He made the decision of jumping in to the water regardless the situation of being caught by the Armada. He was showing his courage and his morals. He was helping someone that he didn't know, out of harms way.

Originally posted by LovelyOne
Elizabeth entering his life on the 13th is not the unlucky thing..she is what is going to help now that his luck has run out..she's the reason for him to stay strong..he's now going to have to fight because the luck is not there anymore..again people only really fight when they are fighting for someone else.

But she didnt come in on the 13th year....DMC is taking place in the 13th year....he meet her what like a year ago COTBP so that makes it the 12th year...right? maybe one of the last things he got as being lucky!!! i wonder what he did for a whole year?

No seriously i was very moved by this thesis....Wow its funny how u can miss so much if u dont pay attention....Jack educated makes a lot of sense!! and Liz/Jack...thats depressing to think that ur whole life u've been disappointed by life over and over again....when u finally let someone get close enough to see who u are...and then bam they leave u to die!!! As unfortunate as that sounds im not sure how easy its going to be for Jack to let Liz get close to him again.....i mean he died because of her...he faced his greatest fear...and now that he's back from the dead im not sure if he's gonna let his guard down around her!! because we all know how that went last time... she is his weekness...and im sure he dosent want to go back to death! which explains him trading her to Sao Feng...the farther she is from him the better his chances of surviving are! and plus im sure coming back from the dead is no easy task....mentally he's most likely gonna be worse!!

That is SO good!!!

SOOOO Good!!!

Originally posted by PirateDiva
No seriously i was very moved by this thesis....Wow its funny how u can miss so much if u dont pay attention....Jack educated makes a lot of sense!! and Liz/Jack...thats depressing to think that ur whole life u've been disappointed by life over and over again....when u finally let someone get close enough to see who u are...and then bam they leave u to die!!! As unfortunate as that sounds im not sure how easy its going to be for Jack to let Liz get close to him again.....i mean he died because of her...he faced his greatest fear...and now that he's back from the dead im not sure if he's gonna let his guard down around her!! because we all know how that went last time... she is his weekness...and im sure he dosent want to go back to death! which explains him trading her to Sao Feng...the farther she is from him the better his chances of surviving are! and plus im sure coming back from the dead is no easy task....mentally he's most likely gonna be worse!!

i TOTALLY agree that both jack and liz have been disappointed by love throughout their lives....

i always got the feeling that elizabeth thought she loved Will because she thought he was a PIRATE since the day she met him...and since she has been intregued by pirates her whole life, i knew that made sense....

UNTIL SHE MET JACK SPARROW

and what was the first thing jack did?
HE SAVED HER
he did the EXACT opposite of what norrie and her father told her that Pirates do...which makes him break the 'mold' straight away....and i think this is what intregued her the most about him.

SHE stuck up for HIM in potc 1 when norrie was arresting him for saving her life...she saw the freedom within him as soon as she opened her eyes and looked at him.

What intregues me the most is exactly WHEN these two characters decided they were a match for eachother...the curiosity scene on the pearl did not come out of thin air; obviously they had studied eachother deeply to be able to discover exactly what the other wants deep inside...

it just intregues me to know WHEN exactly they knew that they saw something of themselves within the other...

its fascinating lol

I disagree with that! ^^^

Barbossa didn't show regret did he? He totally cold shouldered him when he did that..

ELIZABETH showed him that she still has feelings for him even after the betrayal..

he will only feel hurt if she cold shoulders him in the future..she almost kissed him again remember?...I think he knew why she was doing it..because she saw him as a threat..he knew she was trying to lie about why she was doing that because HE does the exact same thing when he's trying to cover up what he's really doing. You even see him laugh a little bit because she is just like him..

Know what else I find interesting?

Odysseus' story spans for 20 years before he returns home to his wife and son and there his story ends..although once he's home I think it continues for like another year

when you add up where Jack's story starts till DMC/AWE..its 13 years...then ad on 9 years where the script I had ended with Elizabeth and 9 year old son?

Its 22 years LOL

not exact but a coincidence?

I think not.

Jack be Odysseus

Elizabeth be Penelope

the son be Jack's

i dont believe in lucky numbers or tht luck exists. Only miracle exists

i sound like a mother teresa lol

humm, interesting Isn't Liz supposed be 22 yrs old?

well supposedly she was 12 when potc started. 8 years later, 20...uh dmc passed 2 years?mm im gonna put a year. so dmc liz was 21 going to 22. ok i lost count lol.

I dont think the number has meaning behind it..I was just picking up on another Odyssey/ Potc similarity

anyway..as I said..I think the first 6 years of Jack's life were different to the Jack we see later on..firstly I think he was a pirate and was very brave, he took responsibility etc.

NUMBER 6

Harmony, beauty, nurturing, love, marriage,
family, responsibility, understanding, sympathy.


THEN I think Jack met Calypso and became weaker and in a sort of trance for 7 years, he also appears to get out of dangerous situations basically by luck..7 is a lucky number..but I think Calypso may have had something to do with Jack's luck:

NUMBER 7

Philosopher, sage, wisdom seeker, reserved,
inventor, stoic, contemplative, aloof, deep-thinker.

on the 13th his luck runs out..we all know 13 is an unlucky number..but it can also BRING LUCK and IMO Elizabeth is what does so...he needs to be brave to survive now..Jacks luck certainly seems to have gone in DMC..Davy is after him his tmes up and after these 7 years of a trance like state he returns and is reborn as his old self the pirate/man he was 7 years before.(first 6 years of piracy)

then for some reason this story originaly ends 9 years into the future..on the number 22, Elizabeth has a son..which IMO is Jack's and Jack is gonna be there..he gonna be a govener or something?..the letters of marque can grant him that kind of power you know..

NUMBER 22

Idealistic, expansive, visionary, master-builder,
government, universal transformation. philanthropic.


Also the number 9:

NUMBER 9

Humanitarian, compassionate, romantic, selfless,
generous, philanthropic, loving, wisdom, idealist.

^^originally Jack during those last 9 years after the ending of AWE? where no one is left but him and Lizzie boo??

meaning of stoic BTW...after Jack meets Calypso



"One who is seemingly indifferent to or unaffected by joy, grief, pleasure, or pain."

It's funny how those numbers match the characters, or is it my imagination?

Ok gurls see ya later. xoxoxox have fun

Going back to the idea....Jack has been in purgatory which means that he has had a lot of time to think and since Liz was the last person he saw b4 he died....hes obviously been thinking about her!! Now at the time that she shackled him to the mast he might have been secretly proud of who she has become...but with all that time to think that he has, by the time they find him he probably already convinced himself that she KILLED HIM and is going to resent her....soooo im guessing that we will really start to see a real LOVE/HATE relationship between those too....and its only going to intrique us more!!!! Yay!! i hope they are fighting and then engage in a hot Passinate kiss...those are the best!!!

I so agree piratediva!! that kiss definitely hit the billion mark. And sealed the the movie with a golden button.

I know the fact that JacK/Liz havent seen each other since the kiss happened is whats really driving me nuts like i cant wait to see their reactions when they see each other!!! All this buikt up tension....Jack knowing that Liz kissed him and then left him to die....and Liz anticipating seeing the man she loves after she let him know that she has feelings for him and then left him to die.....that really makes for a great scene!!! OMG I CANt wait!!

yay me either!! If these 2 actors johnny/keira are up to making jack/liz scenes then its gonna be a thrill!!