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who wins

Scorpion from Mortal Kombat?

are you using Safer Sephiroth?

All versions of sephiroth put together, same with cloud.

all sephiroths power in one being?!? Sephiroth could wipe out Kain, Scorpion AND cloud then... game set match

What's with all the Sephiroth threads?

Ashtar you clearly underestimated Sephiroth. With all powers from all games he is a god cannot be leaten by anyone (top of my head)

Originally posted by Kaled
Ashtar you clearly underestimated Sephiroth. With all powers from all games he is a god cannot be leaten by anyone (top of my head)

Hyper Sonic

Sephiroth from FF7 has Time control Magic, he could even beat him

Originally posted by Kaled
Sephiroth from FF7 has Time control Magic, he could even beat him

Hyper Sonic can control time and space and has unlimited power and is invincible.

Safer Sephiroth transcends the limits of power, he had fed of the life stream sides Sonics "ultimate" power had a time cap didn't it?

whatever, Sephiroth and Cloud DOMINATE this

Is this the same Kain from the Legend of Kain games??

Originally posted by Joker1237
Is this the same Kain from the Legend of Kain games??

Yep

Lmao. Kain can win this by himself. Nobody can kill him. Kain kills Cloud and Sephiroth. And maybe Scorpion too for the hell of it. This is an idiotic fight. Putting Kain in is like putting in Orochi from KOF. You just can't win.

Putting Sephiroth with all his powers is unfair he could just destroy Kain completly not allowing him to regenerate

*waits for burning thought to come in with his fanboyish comment*

This is crap. Either Kain wins because Sephiroth can't finish him off, or Sephiroth wins by blowing up a continent. This fight sucks.

I'm pretty sure he can finish him off

*continues waiting for the comedy of burning thought*

Sephiroth with all of his powers, he could obliterate anyone

I don't think that's true..... I'm challenging that perception with my newest fight thread.

ok the daleks would beat him

Chuck Norris, Spock, R2-D2, and Wolverine can all totally beat any of these guys. Sephiroth and Kain are SOOOO over rated...

There is NO way to completly destroy Kain.

thats true..kain could only be killed by raziel, so unless sephiroth, can go back in time, and manipulate raziel into properly killing kain, this a stalemate..

Originally posted by Sam Z
There is NO way to completly destroy Kain.

Yes...

the four I listed can simply "erase" his immortality and then kill him.

Originally posted by Blax X
Yes...

the four I listed can simply "erase" his immortality and then kill him.

Yeah, I know. Unstopable R2-D2 + Chuck's roundhouse kick. That'd be a slaughter...

sephiroth could obliterate his existance by melting anyweapons and trikets and vapourising his flesh, its over

...and it won't work. Kain can't be destroyed or killed, sepiroth can do whatever he wants Kain will just reform. And as for controling time, Kain is capable of that too.

even kain is screwed to the bone http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ye0dJhSH_LU&mode=related&search=
there has never been an attack as powerful as this is... EVER

There will be nothing to reform from...at all, it obliterates the atoms of your existance

Man, i don't think you get it. You can put Kain in the middle of the sun, you can destroy entire Galaxy, but Kain will simply WON"T stay dead. And he doesn't need something to reform from, destroy every cell of his body, he'll reappear from NOTHING. So noone wins this fight.

thats bull, he needs something to come out from, each cell in your body has DNA so he can comeback. If theres nothing left it is impossible to do so. any trinket he might have would be destroyed so nothing can save him. This is all not to mention Geostigma, anything organic can be infected.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kkFphJHi608 just watch this...

all lvl 99 and their not dealing half the maximum damage, fighting him is a hopeless fight, espicially if he's in his normal sephiroth form

he only hits like once a minute or else you'd never be able to beat him, and lets face it he's not going to hold back

and i love the way cloud and scorpion have bee swept to the side... out of them two one on one cloud wins

Originally posted by Kaled
thats bull, he needs something to come out from, each cell in your body has DNA so he can comeback. If theres nothing left it is impossible to do so. any trinket he might have would be destroyed so nothing can save him. This is all not to mention Geostigma, anything organic can be infected.

Your theory would've worked if his resurection was physical, but it isn't. He doesn't need cells to reappear. He is immortal because he's destiny is to live, it's hard to explain, one must play the game to understand. But no matter what you do he WON'T stay dead.
So sephiroth can't do a sh!t to Kain, doesn't matter what power level he has. You'll have to live with it.

Originally posted by Sam Z
Your theory would've worked if his resurection was physical, but it isn't. He doesn't need cells to reappear. He is immortal because he's destiny is to live, it's hard to explain, one must play the game to understand. But no matter what you do he WON'T stay dead.
So sephiroth can't do a sh!t to Kain, doesn't matter what power level he has. You'll have to live with it.

yeah but isn't that only relevent to his game? i'm spitballing here (obviously) but he's never going to meet seph, so this event is outside of his destiny.

Their both awesome anyway so i propose the simple fact everyone gangs up on cloud because he's the only real good guy here

Originally posted by Kaled
yeah but isn't that only relevent to his game? i'm spitballing here (obviously) but he's never going to meet seph, so this event is outside of his destiny.

Well, if to look at it that way then there is no point of making threads with Kain at all because it won't be Kain anymore if you just take away his destiny.
Originally posted by Kaled

Their both awesome anyway so i propose the simple fact everyone gangs up on cloud because he's the only real good guy here

I think that'd be fair...

Originally posted by Sam Z
Well, if to look at it that way then there is no point of making threads with Kain at all because it won't be Kain anymore if you just take away his destiny.

yeah thought of that as soon as i posted it


Originally posted by Sam Z
I think that'd be fair...

Ok then, Cloud vs Scorpion?

after fairly assuming sephiroth and Kain are locked into an endless battle for all eternity

Originally posted by Kaled
yeah thought of that as soon as i posted it




Ok then, Cloud vs Scorpion?

after fairly assuming sephiroth and Kain are locked into an endless battle for all eternity

Sounds creepy...fear

Cloud VS Scorpion? i'd say cloud but then we don't know which one anyone except AC its a cloud win

I'm just curious, as Ive never played TLoK games. How does Kaine die in the games then? Surely you can't just walk around the levels ignoring any attacks that come your way?

In the game Kain disappears and then just appears at the closest checkpoint. Rasiel the same but when he dies he has to get to the material world.

It's like I said. Putting Kain in is kind of ludicrous because of his immortality. The guy is like Chakan, he just won't die.

As for Scorp vs. Cloud, depends on version and where they're fighting. Netherworld, Scorpion wins no matter what. Anywhere else, if Cloud has magic, Scorpion is ****ed. If it's just normal abilities, it should be interesting. My money is on Scorpion. He's very tricky and Cloud might land a blow, and thinking him dead, get stabbed in the back. It pays to be undead.

wait, if Seph vapourised him that counts as a KO and Kain is defeated....right?

if cloud has the sword from AC he could use a lighter version and kick scorpions booty, any other, scorpion should pull off a win

Seph can't kill Kain. Just accept it. Even if he vapes the body, Kain will come back. It's not a KO unless you can say that Kain takes longer to come back from being vaped. And we know that's not true.

Yep. By the way, can Seph's soul be stollen?

Good point. I'd believe the answer to be yes. Which means Seph is screwed.

ugh, he doesn't have one to being with. Effects of becoming one wth darkness an all

everyone has a soul unless their dead?

Kain pwns them all easily

yeah but, in the FF7 world the soul isn't a soul, its just life force, so kain can't do anythink to him

trust me, its a soul dude....simply cause they call it life force doesnt mean its NOT a soul, Kain will just impale him on the reaver, or fire a soul blast and disintegrate Sephiroth, blasts the flesh off his bones and turns his bones into dust, or he could call down lightning on him and fry him

er, not really, sides all sephiorth life force was replaced with jenova cells so....... still no

Life force and soul are not one and the same, his life force maybe replaced but his sould would still be there, so unless there's a proof that his soul can't be stollen, Kain is going to win this.

Originally posted by Sam Z
Life force and soul are not one and the same, his life force maybe replaced but his sould would still be there, so unless there's a proof that his soul can't be stollen, Kain is going to win this.

that logic is seriously flawed, know what your talking about before you post

his life force was replaced by jenova cells, notice when he dies no green light comes off him, he only fades into darkness

Originally posted by Kaled
that logic is seriously flawed, know what your talking about before you post

his life force was replaced by jenova cells, notice when he dies no green light comes off him, he only fades into darkness

You assume that THE GUY HAS NO SOUL because his life force was replaced by jenova cells and you explain it with abcence of green light and after that you say that my logic is flawed and that it is ME who don't know what I post?

Originally posted by Sam Z
You assume that THE GUY HAS NO SOUL because his life force was replaced by jenova cells and you explain it with abcence of green light and after that you say that my logic is flawed and that it is ME who don't know what I post?

no, i know he has no soul

yeah, thats exactly what i'm saying

Originally posted by Kaled
no, i know he has no soul

yeah, thats exactly what i'm saying

So he himself told you that?shifty
If he really has no soul then this thread is pointless.

Originally posted by Sam Z
So he himself told you that?shifty
If he really has no soul then this thread is pointless.

oh yeah, we hang all the time in my padded cell

thats why we're only doing cloud vs scorpion

Sephiroth's soul still exists. That's what Kadaj, Loz and Yazoo were. When Sephiroth's body was destroyed at the end of FFVII, his soul managed to escape becoming part of the Lifestream but it split into those 3. Effectivel, they all are 1/3 Sephiroth's spirit. Which means, I suppose, to totally kill Sephiroth you would need to kill all three. However, The Soul Reaver will devour them just the same. The weapon can harm both physically and spiritually. It attacks your body, your spirit...you're boned in both ways as it is powerful enough to harm the Elder God who exists in two dimensions entirely.

Face it. Sephiroth has a soul. It can be stolen. you can not 'replace" your soul with Jenova cells. You can corrupt it with Jenova cells true, but again, not replace. If he's hit with the Soul Reaver, which he will be, then he's dead. Kain holds him in TK chains or simply teleports and runs him through. His soul is devoured and his physical and spiritual essence lost for all of time.

Kain has every advantage. Speed, strength, two millennia of battle experience and more magic than Seph can dream off. Plus immortality. Kain beats Sephiroth in every way. What a joke fight.

Originally posted by Nikkolas
Sephiroth's soul still exists. That's what Kadaj, Loz and Yazoo were. When Sephiroth's body was destroyed at the end of FFVII, his soul managed to escape becoming part of the Lifestream but it split into those 3. Effectivel, they all are 1/3 Sephiroth's spirit. Which means, I suppose, to totally kill Sephiroth you would need to kill all three. However, The Soul Reaver will devour them just the same. The weapon can harm both physically and spiritually. It attacks your body, your spirit...you're boned in both ways as it is powerful enough to harm the Elder God who exists in two dimensions entirely.

Face it. Sephiroth has a soul. It can be stolen. you can not 'replace" your soul with Jenova cells. You can corrupt it with Jenova cells true, but again, not replace. If he's hit with the Soul Reaver, which he will be, then he's dead. Kain holds him in TK chains or simply teleports and runs him through. His soul is devoured and his physical and spiritual essence lost for all of time.

Kain has every advantage. Speed, strength, two millennia of battle experience and more magic than Seph can dream off. Plus immortality. Kain beats Sephiroth in every way. What a joke fight.

....ok let me say this as clearly as i can. Jenova is a alien whose cells appear to be of evil element. So anyone highly infected has a severe lack of "spirit" thus not a soul. Its really a very complicated theory because the translation between the universes. And based on that logic, i could say Kain's destiny is irrelevent because thats not how anything works in the FF7 world, or even the real world thus Kain is going down, so hard.
Magics, anyone with the power to make the sun expands have more magic than kain simple as. I would agree Kain is faster. Stronger... impossible to say, we know Safer Sephiroth is alot stronger than the normal form, but we don't know how much, thus thats is an impossible claim.

Kaled, you have not contributed one piece of evidence to support your theory that Sephiroth has no soul. And indeed, AC seems to directly contradict this point. If we take AC as canon, and the final battle between Cloud and Sephiroth at the end of the game, isn't that a battle of the souls? Regardless of what you call it, soul, mind, essense, life stream, you haven't shown that the soul reaver can't take it.

OK, HOW MANY TIMES DO WE HAVE TO TELL YOU? KAIN CAN'T DIE. THERE IS NO WAY TO KILL HIM WITHOUT THE REAVER. And the reaver serves only him. If Kain can't die, and Sephiroth's soul exists, then this is an easy win for Kain. Nikkolas is right, this is a joke. Next time research before you make a fight.

Originally posted by TricksterPriest
Kaled, you have not contributed one piece of evidence to support your theory that Sephiroth has no soul. And indeed, AC seems to directly contradict this point. If we take AC as canon, and the final battle between Cloud and Sephiroth at the end of the game, isn't that a battle of the souls? Regardless of what you call it, soul, mind, essense, life stream, you haven't shown that the soul reaver can't take it.

OK, HOW MANY TIMES DO WE HAVE TO TELL YOU? KAIN CAN'T DIE. THERE IS NO WAY TO KILL HIM WITHOUT THE REAVER. And the reaver serves only him. If Kain can't die, and Sephiroth's soul exists, then this is an easy win for Kain. Nikkolas is right, this is a joke. Next time research before you make a fight.

Please no bullshit in my thread, last i checked sephiroth has a soul.

And this "Kain can't die thing" has reached epic stupidity, If I threw Kain into the sun what would happen. As I stated kain can be hurt, and knocked out. And before kain fanboys jump out of nowhere with this Raziel can only hurt him bull, how did mobieus hurt him, or the seraphim lord, how does he age?

If he was indestructible like people state, none of these effects would happen.

Mobieus hurt him because of the heart of darkness, Rasiel hurt him by ripping heart of darkness. Now, there is no heart of darkness and before fight with the Elder God Mobieus tried to use his old trick and it had no effect.

Originally posted by Sam Z
Mobieus hurt him because of the heart of darkness, Rasiel hurt him by ripping heart of darkness. Now, there is no heart of darkness and before fight with the Elder God Mobieus tried to use his old trick and it had no effect.

What about the fact that he ages and the seraphim lord hurt him as well, please don't nitpick.

I have a question sammo, if the heart of darkness makes him susceptible to damage. Is it possible to cast a spell or curse on him, that would make him just as susceptible like he was with the heart of darkness?

Also, why does he feed, what happens if he doesn't feed for a long time.

Originally posted by Emperor Ashtar
What about the fact that he ages and the seraphim lord hurt him as well, please don't nitpick.

I have a question sammo, if the heart of darkness makes him susceptible to damage. Is it possible to cast a spell or curse on him, that would make him just as susceptible like he was with the heart of darkness?

As i said before EA, seraphim lord hurt him in previous games. Since then he became much more powerfull, in fact he wasn't immortal then i think, and was more just a vampire. We know for sure, when Kain dies, he reforms. He only dies if he gets mortal wounds, so there is no way to take him down with some other method.
The question. Heart of darkness was used to create Kain, that was the reason it was his weak spot, and that was the reason why everyone thought Rasiel killed him by ripping it off. Turned out that he doesn't even need his source of life to live. If this isn't convincing that he is immortal, then nothing is. As for casting spell, i don't know. Unless Seph recreates heart of darkness and puts it back in Kain's chest and then ripps it off again, it won't do him any good, and i doubt he is capable of that.

Originally posted by Sam Z
As i said before EA, seraphim lord hurt him in previous games. Since then he became much more powerfull, in fact he wasn't immortal then i think, and was more just a vampire. We know for sure, when Kain dies, he reforms. He only dies if he gets mortal wounds, so there is no way to take him down with some other method.
The question. Heart of darkness was used to create Kain, that was the reason it was his weak spot, and that was the reason why everyone thought Rasiel killed him by ripping it off. Turned out that he doesn't even need his source of life to live. If this isn't convincing that he is immortal, then nothing is. As for casting spell, i don't know. Unless Seph recreates heart of darkness and puts it back in Kain's chest and then ripps it off again, it won't do him any good, and i doubt he is capable of that.

I never said he wasn't immortal, But, to what extent. If I through him into the sun, will he be fine?

The sword would save him. The sword itself is Kain's protection. The sword would transport back to earth or whereever, and Kain would revive there. Ironically, the sword is the only thing that can permanently kill him.

Originally posted by Emperor Ashtar
I never said he wasn't immortal, But, to what extent. If I through him into the sun, will he be fine?

What TricksterPriest said.
Also i wanna add that Kain's immortality isn't about his uniq powers, so really doesn't matter how he dies. He'll just come back because his destiny is not dieing at the sun. I know it sounds strange especially for vs forum, but it's still so.

It's kinda ****ed up and seriously screws up any possibility of a new Legacy of Kain game, but yeah, Kain is just plain unkillable.

Originally posted by TricksterPriest
It's kinda ****ed up and seriously screws up any possibility of a new Legacy of Kain game, but yeah, Kain is just plain unkillable.

That's not surprising, there are many unkillable characters.

Does the soul reaver still need souls for power at the end of soul reaver, thanks for making me understand guys.

EDIT: Also, is kains destiny tied to the reaver, if the reaver were to somehow be destroyed for what ever reason. Would the prophecy be destroyed?

Due to extremely ****ed up temporal mechanics, bad storywriting, and the fact that the sword itself is the catalyst for his destiny, there is no way to remove the reaver from existence or negate it coming into kain's possession. It goes with the destiny thing. The sword can change history because it's some kind of temporal linchpin. Which way history goes depends on how it's used. But ultimately, the sword can't be used or go to, anyone but Kain. So Ashtar, the question is moot.

Originally posted by TricksterPriest
Due to extremely ****ed up temporal mechanics, bad storywriting, and the fact that the sword itself is the catalyst for his destiny, there is no way to remove the reaver from existence or negate it coming into kain's possession. It goes with the destiny thing. The sword can change history because it's some kind of temporal linchpin. Which way history goes depends on how it's used. But ultimately, the sword can't be used or go to, anyone but Kain. So Ashtar, the question is moot.

But, you ignored my other question, doesn't the reaver need souls, if so, what happenes if it doesn't feed on souls for a while?

Originally posted by Emperor Ashtar
That's not surprising, there are many unkillable characters.

Does the soul reaver still need souls for power at the end of soul reaver, thanks for making me understand guys.

Well i believe it still needs souls since (spoiler!) it contains Rasiel's soul now and Rasiel is a soul reaver himself, but blade doesn't need souls to exist, only to make it more powerfull.

Originally posted by Emperor Ashtar

EDIT: Also, is kains destiny tied to the reaver, if the reaver were to somehow be destroyed for what ever reason. Would the prophecy be destroyed? Good question their destinies are connected but i don't think it's possible to kill Kain by destroying SR because the weapon itself is used to controle life and death, besides destroying SR would mean that Rasiel's soul would be destroyed as well and it is not possible since Kain was the only one who could destroy Rasiel. Things are so complicated...

Moot point. The reaver is indestructible. It doesn't need the souls. Kain gets the juice, not the sword. And you can't drain the souls out. Because, *SPOILER!!!*
The soul inside the blade is Raziel. He literally is the heart of the soul reaver. The Soul Reaver's power can't nullified. Cheap plot device I know, but that's Kain for you.

Originally posted by Emperor Ashtar
Please no bullshit in my thread, last i checked sephiroth has a soul.


like i said its translating into universes, they have life force, or mako. Not souls, so its an impossible translation, sides, sephiroth is infected with pure evil, heck he was born of it.

Originally posted by Kaled
like i said its translating into universes, they have life force, or mako. Not souls, so its an impossible translation, sides, sephiroth is infected with pure evil, heck he was born of it.

And the reaver would drain that lifeforce like it does to others.

Alright Kaled, give it up. You've never played the LOK series, why are you arguing about something that you know nothing about?