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I have captured some screen caps at the beach scene where it proofs that this whole bolony story of the compass poiting at will in jacks direction is all caca.

Supposedly, Mr Ted said that the camera was blocking(right) and that Where Jack was standing its where Will was standing...uh right. Ted is not that stupid to make a bull poop(not cursing!) story like that. fake-made up crap*cough*kttc*cough*

so like the first time the compass pointed to jack will was also standing in that direction-that exact spot where jack was..some miracle eh? We werent born 5 minutes ago.

well here are some proof.

http://img241.imageshack.us/img241/1382/pdvd000iy0.th.png
^^in this scene we can see where jack is standing, on the grass.

http://img241.imageshack.us/img241/113/pdvd006zg7.th.png

http://img241.imageshack.us/img241/1613/pdvd008pq7.th.png
points to jack

http://img183.imageshack.us/img183/7271/pdvd012ze2.th.png
Compass dont lie...watch again where Jack is standing.

hold on theres more lol

EDIT - crap sorry chiki I thought you had finished with the post


LOL and davy/dutchman/Will is in FRONT! of her to the north west at that moment!!

BEHIND THE HUGE BLOCKING! right near where they left Pintell and Ragetti to look after the boat which was on the opposite end of the isle


we are shown this right after she says "it doesnt show you what you want most" that shot clarifies to the audience that she wants Jack most out of the 2 men because Davy/Will/dutchman is no where near where Jack is standing when it points to him.

Will is in front (N/W) on the dutchman hiding behind the massive blocking

Jack is S/W and it clearly points S/W

here is what was posted by "ted" or "terry" I dont know which:

"If you watch the blocking in the scene on the beach before Elizabeth says the compass doesn't work and doesn't show you what you want (and the blocking immediately after), you'll know something that Elizabeth doesn't."

I studied the whole scene and the little tiny sand dune Jack was standing on right after she says that line?? I learn NOTHING that she doesnt know about

but then it cuts to the huge blocking located in the opposite direction of where the compass pointed, we learn the dutchman/Will is hiding behind it. and Liz didnt see it and she cant see it...her compass is telling her she wants Jack and its JACK not Will who she wants most.

both men are present and it points slap bang at Jack..actually all 3 men are present

AGAIN watch closely

captain eunich will appear any moment like in 40 mins tops

http://img134.imageshack.us/img134/3307/pdvd020ix1.th.png

http://img134.imageshack.us/img134/9364/pdvd021wp3.th.png
uhg! bloody eunich is here!

http://img183.imageshack.us/img183/1371/pdvd022kj5.th.png
hmmm...thats interesting...

http://img134.imageshack.us/img134/6929/pdvd027ot3.th.png

http://img183.imageshack.us/img183/7894/pdvd026pr0.th.png
jack looks like hes about to barf lol

If you'd like to call Ted a liar, then by all means do so. Better do it to his face though, since talking behind someone's back is rude.


Apparently, Ted's belief is that the compass is pointing at Will, which I find extremely interesting. Besides, we don't know exactly where Will got off the ship (I somehow doubt he waited until the ship went underwater to get off. Probably as soon as they came in view of the island he was in the water, swimming away from the ship), so when the compass 'points' at Jack, it could actually be pointing at Will.


Also, when she's wandering around on the beach, looking for the chest, and the compass keeps swinging around, she actually heads in the direction that Will appears from before she turns back around.


The compass still worked to find the chest. She just misread what the compass said. She thought it pointed at Jack, it was actually pointing at the chest.


Sorry, guys, but nice try. Will and Elizabeth are in love, and will probably get married. If Will does end up dying (though I've seen nothing that supports that truth except a nasty magazine article that looks rather suspicious), I somehow doubt that Elizabeth is just going to fall into Jack's arms.


She has a better chance of ending up with Norrington than she does with Jack. Just because Jack and Elizabeth look nice together doesn't mean that they should or will end up together.


Everything that you point out as being a J/E moment (Oh look, the sky is blue!!!) can be easily and logically explained away. The ONLY way YOUR ship works is if Will dies or suddenly vanishes. That fact alone should tell you that your ship has more holes in it than swiss cheese.


Normally I wouldn't get this riled over J/E shipping. I can debate politely with anyone, given the opportunity. You can even call me any name that you like, but when you DARE to insult the WRITER of this film and try to pass off his opinion as LIE because it intrudes on your false little dream of a ship...That is IT.


You have absolutely NO BUSINESS calling Ted a liar just because you don't like what he said. Nor should you ever, EVER call someone's ideas crap. People are allowed to write or believe what they want about the movie, and until it comes out, you are just going to have accept it. You can debate all you want, but NOT LIKE THAT.


Got it?

All I can say is Lets see who's going to have the last laugh.
We based ourselves on facts. Not just visual concept. We use our intelligence to decipher the meaning of things. There are reasons why the writers use meanings and symbolisms on their movies thats the magic of it. Thats why they are such great writers. I don't see no one insulting them or calling the writers liers. You are putting words in to other peoples mouths. The writers didn't specifically say that the compass was pointing to the eunuch. That is why they use symbolisms, because is up to us the viewers to decipher them. Oh and the writers wouldn't put pointless scenes in the movie. Each and every one of the scenes has a meaning. Writing is more than making up a story. Thats why the writer are such smart people. They used a lot of symbolisms in both POTC movies. You would have to be blind or dumb to not see what was going on. Therefore all I can say is that I rest my case. And on May 27 2007, we will see what ship is gonna still be afloat. So I suggest for you to take it easy, calm down you sound a bit tense. And start opening your mind to possibilities

Im curious who it is you think is going to have the last laugh?

Originally posted by Pirates life fo
Im curious who it is you think is going to have the last laugh?

Do I have to tell you?

I thought it was May 25th

Originally posted by evilm0nki3
I thought it was May 25th

ok it is May 25. I was close though

Oh, I do have a correction in my quote from Ted...


I had saved it from a conversation with someone, who quoted it to me, and the last paragraph actually shouldn't be there. I honestly should not try to post when I have a fever. At any rate, I apologize to Ted, my friend, and anyone else who read the quote.


However, the argument still stands that the WRITER of the film says we would learn something Elizabeth doesn't already know. She already knows that she's feeling attracted to Jack, so it must be something else.


I still apologize for the confusion, however. Thank you for bearing with me and my poor feverish mind.



And all I have to say to you, Misty, is that if the writer himself indicates that W/E is the likely ending, then maybe, just maybe you need to rethink your theory.


The point is, sometimes a canon is just a canon in PotC. Not everything is secretly all about J/E. It isn't, it isn't and it isn't. The fact that you have to over-analyse everything and to put meaning into absolutely smacks of absolute and complete desperation to prove that your ship is right.


I'm not calling your ideas stupid, but I do think that they are misguided and not based entirely on the truth, but more on a desire on what you want to see, as opposed to what actually IS.

I believe In Jack and Liz lol

I still stick to my ship that no one will end up with Liz. Or maybe the monkey will. I should start a monkey/Liz thread

lol I like the monkey, hes a cutie!

I went to KttC to see what the big deal was. There are as many Jack/Liz people as there are here. It just seems like there are so many Will/Liz because they have 10 times the number of people. There ideas are as well thought out as everyone's here are. They also have insiders with friends on set and access to casting info.

Aside from the occassional moment when someone has a bad day, KTTC is actually a rather calm place to be, and the people there are great to debate with and to discuss things with.


So are the people here...they're just a bit more...passionate and blunt than those at KTTC. It's one of the reasons I came here, so I could be a bit more blunt in my arguments, and because I think it's a fun forum.


Actually, Liz with no one would suit me just fine...It'd be good, actually, for the female to toss off the bonds of love and to just go do her own thing, but I think W/E will end up together.


Though, I won't cry if J/E end up together...I just fail to see, in this time and moment, how it could possibly happen.

I could care less who she ends up with as long as its an entertaing movie. I just dont see the character of Jack Sparrow settling down with a rail thin, young woman. It just doesnt seem to be his style. Is he attracted to her? Maybe he is. Is she attracted to him? Perhaps. Just because there is an attraction doesnt make it a sure thing.

Oops you are misunderstanding me. Didn't I explained myself, I thought I did. Oh well here I go again. I didn't say that they used double meanings in the entire movie. I understand, that a palm tree with coconuts, it's just a palm tree with coconuts. What I'm saying is that the writers use symbolisms in order to create a good and likable movie
:coughs: I billion. Again thats the magic of movie making. There are reason why they use it. And all I'm saying is, that they wouldn't put pointless scenes in it. I am not desperate to prove anything I just go by facts. I didn't have to over analyzed anything I just saw the movie once. I wasn't even a J/E shipper. But some people are just blinded that they can't even see pass their noses. In fact my "ideas" aren't just ideas, they are pretty much facts. And thats the magic of movie making.

So its a fact that Jack and Liz will end up together then?

Originally posted by Pirates life fo
So its a fact that Jack and Liz will end up together then?

I was just saying that the writers use symbolisms in order to create movies. And that is very much fact. Film studies classes are given in college, if you are a college student ask around, they'll tell you about it. Or better ask lovely she is a member of this forum, she is a films studies student. The college that i go to offered that degree. So I was only talking about that. I don't know if they will end up together or not. It looks that way, or all of those scenes would be pointless and meaningless.

I know what symbolism is. And if Jack and Liz dont end up together it doesnt make scenes from DMC pointless. Like I have been saying all along. Wait until 3 comes out and we see what how it's written. It will all make sense regardless of who ends up with who.

Yea your right, I guess we'll have to wait and see. But still if they don't end up together, Jack goes back to being the same way he was. Liz goes back to being the proper and fine lady we see in POTC 1, DMC would have no meaning. Why go in to so much trouble and make us think that the characters were changing and evolving. It would be pointless. They could've left the movie with one part. Do you see what I'm saying?

WHy would Liz have to go back to anything? Maybe she enjoys life on the sea and decides to remain? Who is to say that we dont find out that Jack enjoyed being how he was. It WILL NOT make the movie pointless people. You are being so single minded. Jack/Liz. Trust in Ted and Terry's writing regardless of the outcome. You may not like it but I dont see how you can say it would make the movie pointless. There are A LOT of themes going on that need resolution that you obviously missed in DMC.

Originally posted by Pirates life fo
WHy would Liz have to go back to anything? Maybe she enjoys life on the sea and decides to remain? Who is to say that we dont find out that Jack enjoyed being how he was. It WILL NOT make the movie pointless people. You are being so single minded. Jack/Liz. Trust in Ted and Terry's writing regardless of the outcome. You may not like it but I dont see how you can say it would make the movie pointless. There are A LOT of themes going on that need resolution that you obviously missed in DMC.

Oh I'm pretty aware of the other points in the movie that need resolution. All i'm saying is that the most important part in the movie are the characters, and they are definitely going to need some kind of closure. I'm not saying that Jack's character didn't enjoyed being who he is, was. I don't know if you remember Becket's line, "Jack must find a place in this new world or he would perish". I mean we wouldn't want this character to die. Therefore Jack has to find a place in life in order to survive. Why go in to so much effort to try to change his character,in DMC we saw a different Jack Sparrow, totally different from the first one.
He was still Jack Sparrow but there was something different in him. I bet I wasn't the only one that noticed it. This character is evolving, it was something that us viewers didn't expected, no not Ole Jack. I bet everyone else felt in love with that concept. :COUGHS I BILLION: Jack a different man? I do trust in TnT writings, I mean they are awesome writers. I have seen many of their movies not just POTC. But if people don't like the movie how is it going to be successful? Jack doesn't have to completely change in order to be a good man, I didn't say that, and i'm not saying that. We just want to see this character given some kind of closure.

Let's compare, shall we?

http://img241.imageshack.us/img241/9032/pdvd012vo5.th.png

http://img241.imageshack.us/img241/7559/pdvd022rg6.th.png

If the camera was supposedly blocking then why did liz looked at jacks direction? Will was a few feet away where jack was standing. Why didnt she looked on that exact location where Will came from. There is no way that the compass was pointing to Will. I personally think that it pointed to the chest at first bc she was truely inspired by jacks story about the chest and to have Will safe. It no moment did the compass pointed to Will.

This whole thing about liz wanting Will through Jack is just bogus. These 2 men are so different from eachother. How can she want will through Jack?! In no scene theres Liz saying that I want Will and I to be married. She only wants the wedding night which jack can in fact perfor and we never see her once straight to wills face saying I love you. She loves Will but is not in love with him. Her hearts desire is to have Will safe not to want him. In the you smell funny she says to save will Her hearts intetions for will is to have him safe so then she could have the waffle all to herself

Originally posted by Surreal_44
If you'd like to call Ted a liar, then by all means do so. Better do it to his face though, since talking behind someone's back is rude.


Apparently, Ted's belief is that the compass is pointing at Will, which I find extremely interesting. Besides, we don't know exactly where Will got off the ship (I somehow doubt he waited until the ship went underwater to get off. Probably as soon as they came in view of the island he was in the water, swimming away from the ship), so when the compass 'points' at Jack, it could actually be pointing at Will.


Also, when she's wandering around on the beach, looking for the chest, and the compass keeps swinging around, she actually heads in the direction that Will appears from before she turns back around.


The compass still worked to find the chest. She just misread what the compass said. She thought it pointed at Jack, it was actually pointing at the chest.


Sorry, guys, but nice try. Will and Elizabeth are in love, and will probably get married. If Will does end up dying (though I've seen nothing that supports that truth except a nasty magazine article that looks rather suspicious), I somehow doubt that Elizabeth is just going to fall into Jack's arms.


She has a better chance of ending up with Norrington than she does with Jack. Just because Jack and Elizabeth look nice together doesn't mean that they should or will end up together.


Everything that you point out as being a J/E moment (Oh look, the sky is blue!!!) can be easily and logically explained away. The ONLY way YOUR ship works is if Will dies or suddenly vanishes. That fact alone should tell you that your ship has more holes in it than swiss cheese.


Normally I wouldn't get this riled over J/E shipping. I can debate politely with anyone, given the opportunity. You can even call me any name that you like, but when you DARE to insult the WRITER of this film and try to pass off his opinion as LIE because it intrudes on your false little dream of a ship...That is IT.


You have absolutely NO BUSINESS calling Ted a liar just because you don't like what he said. Nor should you ever, EVER call someone's ideas crap. People are allowed to write or believe what they want about the movie, and until it comes out, you are just going to have accept it. You can debate all you want, but NOT LIKE THAT.


Got it?

what you dont get is that any loser can post that kind of information online. Like you once oh so memorebly said theories are not facts.

I can come online to kttc and post something and pretend to be Ted/Terry posting all that nonesense caca that you wrote there. Compass doesnt lie. Its impossible that the compass could be pointing at will in jacks direction. oh wow some miracle.

And I have buisness on calling ppl liars because they friggin got nothing else to do then make up BS sotries. I dont believe in nothing that they post in ktttc or the internet. The only fact that we will seek is in the movie and the trailer.

Im debating by facts only and patterns, not by pyscho ppl who post made up crap. YOU HAVE NO BUISNESS in calling us a liar and telling that we are twisting facts when youre the one doing it. Debate all you want buddy but the facts are clear and they are in your face. Problem is the future captain eunichs fish face tentacles are blocking your face.

so you, better start counting your days till May 25th 2007. The only fact that you can proove is form the movie not form internet made up crap.

you are so damn funny I did my best to put that worm in his place. But you definitely did better.

Look at those pics....where captain fish lips was standing and Jack. THats a few feet apart. Why didnt liz turned in to the fruit cake? Bc her eyes was set upon the most delicious waffle that she have ever seen.

Originally posted by Surreal_44
If you'd like to call Ted a liar, then by all means do so. Better do it to his face though, since talking behind someone's back is rude.


Apparently, Ted's belief is that the compass is pointing at Will, which I find extremely interesting. Besides, we don't know exactly where Will got off the ship (I somehow doubt he waited until the ship went underwater to get off. Probably as soon as they came in view of the island he was in the water, swimming away from the ship), so when the compass 'points' at Jack, it could actually be pointing at Will.


Also, when she's wandering around on the beach, looking for the chest, and the compass keeps swinging around, she actually heads in the direction that Will appears from before she turns back around.


The compass still worked to find the chest. She just misread what the compass said. She thought it pointed at Jack, it was actually pointing at the chest.


Sorry, guys, but nice try. Will and Elizabeth are in love, and will probably get married. If Will does end up dying (though I've seen nothing that supports that truth except a nasty magazine article that looks rather suspicious), I somehow doubt that Elizabeth is just going to fall into Jack's arms.


She has a better chance of ending up with Norrington than she does with Jack. Just because Jack and Elizabeth look nice together doesn't mean that they should or will end up together.


Everything that you point out as being a J/E moment (Oh look, the sky is blue!!!) can be easily and logically explained away. The ONLY way YOUR ship works is if Will dies or suddenly vanishes. That fact alone should tell you that your ship has more holes in it than swiss cheese.


Normally I wouldn't get this riled over J/E shipping. I can debate politely with anyone, given the opportunity. You can even call me any name that you like, but when you DARE to insult the WRITER of this film and try to pass off his opinion as LIE because it intrudes on your false little dream of a ship...That is IT.


You have absolutely NO BUSINESS calling Ted a liar just because you don't like what he said. Nor should you ever, EVER call someone's ideas crap. People are allowed to write or believe what they want about the movie, and until it comes out, you are just going to have accept it. You can debate all you want, but NOT LIKE THAT.


Got it?

that wasnt teds belief that was Stab o The Cutlass's belief!

the only thing Ted said was the FIRST thing..geeze!

Originally posted by Pirates life fo
WHy would Liz have to go back to anything? Maybe she enjoys life on the sea and decides to remain? Who is to say that we dont find out that Jack enjoyed being how he was. It WILL NOT make the movie pointless people. You are being so single minded. Jack/Liz. Trust in Ted and Terry's writing regardless of the outcome. You may not like it but I dont see how you can say it would make the movie pointless. There are A LOT of themes going on that ne

I know you dont believe me but it would make Dead Man's chest and AWE pointless if each character ended up exactly the same as they were during movie 1...that is BAD script writing there's one thing I learned when writing screenplays in college.."dont add anything pointless in" because it will piss off the audience...it never happens in successful stories..they usually follow the 12 steps and each character in DMC appears to be following them at different paces.

imagine if Leia and Hans said "I love you!" "I know" and then they didnt end up together in some way..you would look over the trilogy again and say "hang on a sec....then why did that happen in movie 2 between them?"

then we look at Harry Potter..imagine if by the end of it he decided not to kill voldermort and instead he decideds to go back and be normal kid with his aunt and uncle..

the question would be:

"Ok why did they build up to something and then not even go through with it?"

you just dont do that in stories/movies/trilogies.

If they are to end exactly the same as they were then firstly it doesnt make sense of the theme raised in DMC and AWE of changing from the old world or persishing in the new world. each character neds to change to suit the new world..and we actually see an emotional battle going on with each character between something old and familiar and something new and intrusive..it seems to be about them learning to embrace the new thing in their lives before the old world ends.

What I find interesting is how they are saying movie 4 will be a "reinvention not a continuation" from movie 3...the way movie 3 ends in that script I have? I can see why


Why is it randomly Liz in the future with a 9 year old son?..no indication of Will sleeping with her in the script?

they are going to probably start over the love story between Jack/Liz in movie 4 without Will being there and explain how that bizzare ending in AWE came to be possibly?

I think they are missing something out of the scripts when it comes to that ending..I mean what a whimper to go out on unless Jack is in the last scene of course...its got to be some sort of cliffhanger that will make people eager to see a 4.

I think they are making everyone appear to return to how they were then we get fast forwarded to the future and see something that shocks the heck out of us when it comes to Jack...cliff hanger for a prequel type story?

hello I'm back again!!!

and yes, Lovely One, I think it'll be a cliffhanger ....oh my god, I'll die!!! To wait for the next movie....why???

exactly if they are to do a prequel type thing after how AWE ends in the future..then the characters will need to start off at odds with one another for it to make an interesting story for 4.

they cant start out movie 4 being together..they have to start out at "odds" with one another..which is why we will probably see Jack and Liz "far appart" after Will does you know what then zoom to the future and "WHAT THE HECK?"

that kind of ending would mean that DMC, AWE wasnt a waste of time on screen..all that stuff DID mean something and did amount to something in the end.

It would mean

Jack didnt begin to fall in love then revert back to thinking women were bitches and so they should be treated like them..

Elizabeth didnt realise she has feelings for Jack..begin to accept them and then revert back to a life in port royal wih no one.

what kind of character develops backwards in a story?

its the teasing tactic that makes their relationship interesting on screen its like "yeah something happened between these two after the events of AWE wanna know what? Well you have to watch movie 4"

I have to agree...we base our arguments on facts we see in the movie...and there is no doubt in my mind that on two specific occasions the compass pointed to Jack while liz held it...and I caught on to that the first time I saw the movie in the theatre..amongst the heavy laden plots going on all around...before I ever heard of this forum....before I ever realized that there was a bunch of other people out there that had the same feelings and ideas that I had about this moive.....

the first time of the pearl..there is no doubt that the compass points to Jack....and on the beach...or else the camera wouldn't have put so much focus on it...it was so obvious...because honestly this movie was so hard to understand and follow the first time I saw it...but that was the one thing I did pick up on that Jack and Liz want each other....and Keira the actress even says so herslef in countless interviews...she says...the relationship between Will and Elizabeth is falling apart while something rather interesting develops between her and Jack Sparrow.....so choke on it....

Originally posted by lovethemtigers
I have to agree...we base our arguments on facts we see in the movie...and there is no doubt in my mind that on two specific occasions the compass pointed to Jack while liz held it...and I caught on to that the first time I saw the movie in the theatre..amongst the heavy laden plots going on all around...before I ever heard of this forum....before I ever realized that there was a bunch of other people out there that had the same feelings and ideas that I had about this moive.....

the first time of the pearl..there is no doubt that the compass points to Jack....and on the beach...or else the camera wouldn't have put so much focus on it...it was so obvious...because honestly this movie was so hard to understand and follow the first time I saw it...but that was the one thing I did pick up on that Jack and Liz want each other....and Keira the actress even says so herslef in countless interviews...she says...the relationship between Will and Elizabeth is falling apart while something rather interesting develops between her and Jack Sparrow.....so choke on it....


its so true. i think its clear what ship the actors are on.

yeah when everyone is trying to say the compass is pointing to will when liz holds it, thats the silliest thing i've ever heard. come on guys. it if is pointing to jack onscreen, its pointing to jack. its as simple as that. the writers have confirmed that it was pointing to jack. waffles, remember? lol.

Will is in the other direction when the compass points at Jack..thats what Ted was trying to say with that paragraph..the blocking is not what Jack is standing on. The blocking is the mountain thing that the dutchman (that will is on) is hiding behind..the thing she doesnt see when she says "It certainly doesnt show you what you want most" right after that line WE see something sh doesnt know it tells us that it IS telling her what she wants most..and Its Jack...its something she cant see...the compass is not pointing at her fiancee its pointing at Jack.

I made a really crude sketch to try and explain it lol..(yes I'm sad with too much free time)

this is where everyone is when the compass points to Jack..Ragetti and Pintell are by the boat...

after this scene we get to se what is behind that blockage..and its the dutchman hiding there we know something she doesnt when she says that line..that it really IS pointing to Jack and not Will's location...poof that the dutchman is in fact there? Davy looks through the telescope at Ragetti and Pintell..then it cuts to them seeing it sink and its RIGHT there to the N/E

Jack's line to liz "true enough..this compass does not point north"

truth being it points S/W to jack

http://img147.imageshack.us/img147/6820/blockhr5.jpg

Will obviously comes from over there..I think he was pulled with the waves as the dutchman went under to some extent..he appears from the same spot the sea monster men do moments later

yeah i think people need to just accept that when the compass is pointing at jack, its pointing at jack. they wouldt throw that in if it were secretly pointing at will--- that would be dumb. why would anyone even make that argument? thats retarded.
it doesnt mean liz and jack are going to be together forever or anything, but its pointing at jack, and like ted said, it really does point to what you want most at that moment.

so whatever happens, we know for a fact there have been mutliple moments where liz has wanted jack more than will.

thats a great drawing. i am not a spatial person at all so it really helped me out. i always get all my head confused trying to sort those things out. want to do some diagrams of the caribbean: where everyone it is at various moments in the movie diagram? lol.

LOL^^

they all run to the middle of the island..and Liz's back then faces where pintell and ragetti come running from (the boat behind her)..they run along that green line too...then we see the sea monsters come from where Will came ..they swam around the right "corner" of the island and I think Will did too..but he was a bit ahead of them.

"If you watch the blocking in the scene on the beach before Elizabeth says the compass doesn't work and doesn't show you what you want (and the blocking immediately after), you'll know something that Elizabeth doesn't."



Just to clarify what he really did say^

I looked at the sand dune Jack was standing on then I looked at it directly after her line and no hint of anything Liz doesnt know about that we are supposed to see.

but then it cuts to that blockage in front of her and whats obscured from her view but not ours..(davy/will/dutchman)

yay!!!!

okay, something i still have a problem with in this scene... maybe its been cleared up before, but do you guys know...

how does Jack know the compass is pointing to the chest and not Elizabeth---- how does he know she's sitting on it? if the compass has been pointing to her for him anyways, whats up with him suddenly being so sure it IS pointing to the chest???

she was led to the chest and she's standing on it..so then the compass need not point to that anymore..so it points to what she wants most as well as wanting to save Will.

I think Jack just thinks its pointing to the chest because he knows shes been lead to it and the compass points back at it for him (was it really pointing to her for him there?)

cuz it actually did what ted said it was doing for Jack earlier on in the movie but this time it settles on a location.

okay. that makes sense.

so question... where do you download movie 2? cause i have the first half but i really want the second half, cause thats the exciting half. lol.

lovelyone, i think you were on wordplayer recently. either that or someone has really picked up all your theories and is running with them. lol. is your sn like maz or something?

LOL yeah that was me..my nickname is Maz

biggest laugh of my life. i popped over to kttc (oh dont ask why) and they have a group of people who are lobbying for a Beckett/Liz match up.

and they think we're delusional??? oh my goodness. LOL.

and guess what else? i've been unbanned. wierd huh. so now i can post outrageous things again until i get banned again!!!

LMAO!

if they bring up the compass pointing at will shove what Terry said and what i said i their faces lol..feel free to use the crude drawing

Originally posted by katelovespirate
biggest laugh of my life. i popped over to kttc (oh dont ask why) and they have a group of people who are lobbying for a Beckett/Liz match up.

and they think we're delusional??? oh my goodness. LOL.

and guess what else? i've been unbanned. wierd huh. so now i can post outrageous things again until i get banned again!!!


I SAW that!!! That....freaked me out a bit...

Originally posted by LovelyOne
LMAO!

if they bring up the compass pointing at will shove what Terry said and what i said i their faces lol..feel free to use the crude drawing

hahaha okay! im definately not going to stick around there, i'm just planning how to go out with a big bang. lol.


yeah over there, there is quite a number of people who ship beckett/liz (OMGSH wtf) and barbossa/liz (yet they still use the "jack is too old for liz" argument agains j/l, again, wtf) and i guess their new thing is tia/jack.

so, i think we need to really freak them out. we need to find a slightly reliable site and get a fake interview posted on it, which is j/l centered and see how they respond to it. gee, when did i get so mean and conniving? lol.

Ppl are still saying that we are twisting facts which its actually them twisting them. theres no way liz wants Will through Jack, theres a difference between wanting a fruit cake and a hot, delcious waffle.

Originally posted by Chiki Mina
Ppl are still saying that we are twisting facts which its actually them twisting them. theres no way liz wants Will through Jack, theres a difference between wanting a fruit cake and a hot, delcious waffle.


HAHAHAHAHA oh my gosh that was the best thing ever. a fruitcake. LOL.

We know that Liz doesnt really want a feast because in 1, she eats that feast with Barbossa but stops eating after only a few bites, convinced its poisoned. even when she finds out it wasnt poisoned, she stops eating and doesnt have anything else. Know why? she didnt want a big gross pig on a tray. she wanted a waffle.

Originally posted by katelovespirate
HAHAHAHAHA oh my gosh that was the best thing ever. a fruitcake. LOL.

We know that Liz doesnt really want a feast because in 1, she eats that feast with Barbossa but stops eating after only a few bites, convinced its poisoned. even when she finds out it wasnt poisoned, she stops eating and doesnt have anything else. Know why? she didnt want a big gross pig on a tray. she wanted a waffle.

Great example. Liz had all the feast that she wanted but it wasnt enough to satisfy her needs.

Will=Feast. She tries to have the whole feast and she can have all that she wants but it will never satisfy that empty feeling.

Jack=Waffle. Elizabeth notices that the answer is right there to her face and only one thing can satisfy her which is the waffle. That waffle catches her attention and she realizes that she can have all the feast that she can have but nothing will make her as satisfied as that waffle.

With Will she could stay with him for years and years. But he can never satisfy her needs and fill that empty hole.

she doesnt want to eat the waffle tough when the compass points there.she just wants to keep it in her handbag

I think that {refering to the compass thing} the compass pointed to Elizabeth and Jack said that she was sitting on the chest. I know that Jack didn't fall in love with Elizabeth at that time, he was still confused and not willing to realize he had an attraction to her PERSONALITY as well as her apperence. He was still the shallow minded Jack, so he was still wanting matierial possesions.

So on the ship, before he found Elizabeth, the compass was spinning. In three serperate ways, I think the first way was Elizabeth and the second was the chest. He wanted to cheat death and live so he NEEDED that chest, but he still WANTED Elizabeth. I don't know what the third point was pointing to.

So when it pointed to where Elizabeth was sitting, it made up its mind. Cause Elizabeth AND the chest was there, so Jack wasn't torn between two things. They were coincidentally in the same place, that's why the compass didn't swing to a different place for him.

I'm still very much unclear about why the compass pointed to the chest for Jack? Was it bc he wanted to get to the chest, negotiate with Davey to get rid of the black spot so he can be with Liz???

My brain particles are fried...

Actually, I think it he knows that she's found the chest because he was torn between two courses of action---saving his own skin in finding the chest, and exploring what his interest in Elizabeth is. Then, all of the sudden, those two courses merged all at once, which means that the compass has finally stopped spinning.

So, Ted's comment about the blocking immediately after she says it doesn't work is really interesting. It's almost as though in that scene, Elizabeth and Jack have switched roles. Jack finally knows what it is that he wants, but Elizabeth is more and more confused. Does she want to find the chest of Davy Jones to save Will, or does she want to explore her deepening interest in Captain Jack?

Or maybe the compass knows that Will is near by and though it's not pointing to him directly, it's wavering because she's torn between the two of them.

thats not what the compass was doing for Jack though in the ovie it was pointing at Liz then the furthest away from Liz...vise versa not settling

then we see it settle on her..and I'm wondering if Jack realises this.

I thought the blocking was supposed to be something hiding her view

well at least I proved Will was well away from Liz when the compass pointed at Jack on the sand dune.

So I was half right about the compass pointing to the chest for Jack. I doubt he fell in love right then and there. But I bet at the curiosity scene his heart skipped a little as well as Liz.

But they were both still unsure about their feelings..right?

Well....Not exactly


It wasn't so much that he fell in love with her then and there. Jack's part in the scene was added to show that the compass wasn't broken. Like the writers have said, the compass shows his state of mind. At the beginning of the movie, the compass was wavering because he wanted to be as close and as far away from Elizabeth as possible. He's not conflicted anymore about what it is that he wants most, hence the compass unwaveringly points to Elizabeth and the chest.

On the reverse of that, it's interesting that while on board the Pearl while Jack is present, the compass never wavers or spins when it's in Elizabeth's hands. It points to him directly. But while they are on land, she seems to be more conflicted about what it is that she wants most. Is this symbolic of perhaps that maybe she doesn't necessarily want to find a way to save Will? Probably not, but it's a possibility.

I think again, the compass shows in this instance her state of mind. She's conflicted as to what she wants most. Like Jack at the beginning of the movie; she wants to be as far away and as close to what she wants most as possible.

Also, according to Jungian psychology, Water is symbolic of the unconcious. So, it's interesting to notice that while she is on the water with Jack, the compass never wavers from him. In other words he's her unconscious want.
But when she is on land, she starts to become morally conflicted.

Well I didnt say he fell in love at the beach scene or the curiosity scene. His heart might've skipped a little in the curiosity scene, but didnt fell in love.

I believe he had feelings for her but was still unsure. I think he came to notice when he looked at his compass while he was trying to escape from the kraken. The compass surely pointed to Liz.

good point, savvysparrow. its true that things always seem a bit clearer to all characters on the water vs. on land.

i think its clear that liz prefers being on a ship. she seems most comfortable and settled when she is sailing. whats the very first shot we ever get of her? on a ship, singing a pirates life for me.

the land represents the restrictions of society, for the most part. on land, Liz is going to be thinking "what would people say" and "i have to live up to my social class" and all that jazz, but in the middle of the ocean on a ship, there isnt any reason why she shouldnt pursue captain jack.

movie 2 is just showing every character in inner turmoil. you cant point to any character and say "they know what they want" or "they are steadily pursuing 1 thing for the whole film". we wont get any of that until 3.

saving the best for last. And all that could be resolved in AWE.

Chiki Mina wrote:





Ted still said what he did, and he said that if you pay attention, you will notice something Elizabeth doesn't. And no, I don't think it's that she is madly in love with a pirate. There is something else.


Also, during the scene where Elizabeth is looking for the chest, she turns in the direction that Will is coming from . She's conflicted between finding the chest, finding Will, and her attraction to Jack.





That's an amusing way of looking at it. Especially since the compass didn't point at Jack in that scene. Elizabeth's goal in the whole movie is to save Will. You think this is just because she has strong feelings of friendship for him? She was ready to be married Will, until Beckett ruined it.


I don't think she went from loving Will to suddenly being in love with Jack, and I don't think Jack is in love with her either. I think he's attracted, but he loves the sea too much. I honestly can't see Jack wanting to get married, but if TnT pull it off I'll be impressed.

Mistypirate said:





Actually, Jack was not all that different than in the first movie. He was just a lot more desperate and afraid for his life. He was willing to use anyone to get what he wanted, which was the chest and/or the key, so that he could negotiate for his life.


Beckett's line just means that Jack will have to adapt...or NOT. I don't know if Jack would want to comform to the New World. He strikes me as the kind who will continue to lead his life how HE wants to, and to not negotiate on that point.




Actually, I enjoyed Jack Sparrow, but he was NOT the reason that I went and saw it fifteen times, and if you would bother poking your head out of the J/E world, you would see that Norrington, Will, Tia, Davy Jones, Beckett and people who just like good action films were a LARGE part of the *cough*Billion*cough* that you are so fond of mentioning. I don't know what the *cough*Billion*cough* has ANYTHING to do with J/E, because I'm sorry, but your ship and favorite character is not solely responsible for the success of DMC.

ChikiMina wrote:




This is true. But I don't think it's just any 'loser' posting that. I believe Ted Elliott wrote that. You don't have to believe me, or him, of course, but if you find out that you were wrong you'd better be prepared to apologize.





Now you just sound like a sulky two year old who had his favorite toy taken away. I said something that could prove you wrong, and suddenly nothing on the internet matters anymore. I hope that includes any and all theories on J/E, of course, because obviously those are all lies too.





I never called you a liar. Your happy little tribe is the one calling people liars, among various other names. The facts are clear, or maybe they aren't...that's part of the fun of the movie. If they were clear, we wouldn't be debating. However, you are too wrapped up in J/E to notice that anyone else makes a good point.


Also, there is no evidence that Will is going to look exactly like Davy Jones (if he does in fact stab the heart). I have a feeling that each sea creature is unique to the person, and no two are the same. And I don't know that he would in fact turn into anything at all. Perhaps its Jones' own twisted nature that caused him to change so much.





There is plenty of evidence in the film to back up the W/E love, you just don't want to see it. It's a shame you can't back up a few steps and really look at it to see it.

Mistypirate said:





Aww, was that supposed to hurt my feelings? I'm crying on the inside. Really.

In nowhere she was looking in Wills direction. Where Will came from he was standing a few feet away where Jack was. It shows on the pictures. She looked at Jacks direction in the beach scene. And its freekin impossible that the first time the compass pointed to Jack it was pointing to Will in some miraculious way.

Her goal was to save will yes. But not to have him lol. She only wants Will to be saved. In the curiosity she mentions she was so ready to be married but she didint say "Im so ready to be married with Will" lol. She never once mentioned Will lol. She only wants the wedding night.

Her feelings towards Will is love but shes not in love with him. T&T said that each of these characters change during potc. oo by the way Jack does love the sea, but guess who also loves the sea, Elizabeth lol. She loves the sea also and freedom. I think she rather stay to sail at sea rather than stay on land wearing corsets for the rest of her life.

God here we go again, your arguments are over, you cant even come on with an intelligent point. There are reason why the writers put those lines in there. And yes Jack indeed is changing, we see a different character in this movie. You are saying that Jack used people in order to get what he wanted, I didn't see anything that indicated that he was using people. You are probably saying it because he supposedly sold Will to DJ. But what were Jack's specific reasons for doing it? We don't really now. But what I know is that he didn't do it for the wrong reasons. He probably knew that Will was going to be safer with D/J. At the end of the movie we see that Jack comes back to the ship and saves everyone. We don't see him running away desperately. Something has given this character courage and strength in order for him to face his fears. So yes there are a lot if indications that suggest that this character is evolving and changing. And the majority of people went to see the movie because of the three main characters. I mean the other characters are very reliable to the story but come on! tell me who went to see DMC to watch Tia Dalmas character? Ummm answer that for me.

LovelyOne wrote:




I did correct myself, or did you not bother to read it?





You could just be wrong, you know. The only character that really seems to be following your path is Norrington, and even that's not a sure bet. It's a good formula, and you can TRY to use it to predict what will happen, but until the entire story is told you cannot truly apply it to anything.


The movies would not be pointless if the characters end up basically where they were in the beginning....Norrington restored to a position of prestige and power, only perhaps a bit more humble and wiser...Elizabeth and Will married, with Bootstrap dropping in with Uncle Jack and Uncle Barbossa to visit them....and Jack and Barbossa sailing across the seas, sometimes working together, sometimes in the midst of a friendly rivalry, with plenty of adventures to make life interesting...


No, that's not bad writing. That's a good ending. And yeah, I totally made that up. It's not necessarily how I myself would choose to end the movie, but it's the first thing I came up with while typing.





It wouldn't be pointless because the flirty moments between Jack and Elizabeth (no "I love you" in there) create a rift between Will and Elizabeth that must be over-come. Every relationship has their bumps, and this is one of theirs.





Oh come on! The whole movie of DMC was NOT dedicated to J/E love! Neither was Curse of the Black Pearl, and despite everything I've heard on here, I don't believe that AWE is going to be some love-fest of J/E either. It's an action movie with romance, not a romance movie with a bit of action! Besides, Harry would never go to live with his aunt and uncle...





This I agree with this statement, actually, and it's a very good point. The only thing is, I don't believe it has to do with J/E ending up together, but what each character is going to have to do in order to survive in the new world. Or perhaps...something will happen to prevent the er...New World from happening. Just a thought.





Or maybe the ending will be totally different from the script you have. They are still filming, you know. Is there an indication of Jack sleeping with Liz? Or the other pirate? Maybe it's Barbossa's kid...He seems to have a weird connection to her as well.





I don't recall Jack ever treating women like bitches...could you clarify how he does so?

oh wow I sound like a 2 year old boo hoo is that another one of your plans to make me cut out my veins?? oh gee let me sharpen my knife.

Its a shame that you dont see that the movie has to progress as well as the characters. Liz is not a ping pong, She cant just have Will the first then Jack in the second and then Will in the third. Besides, WILL IS GOING TO DIE GET THAT TO YOUR HEAD. Hows she gonna end up with Will by the end of the movie? Unless she can make up an imaginary buddy and called him Will, then theres no way Liz can be with Will.

You cant just use Jack and toy his feelings. T&T are not the type to toy feelings with other ppl, change them, then change them back to their old ways. Whats it trying to proove? There comes a time when a character changes and is a new person. It wont make any sense if they put Jack loving his material things and sleeping with hookers again. BS

If I see the patterns between Will/Liz believe me I will definitely support Will/Liz all the way. But I dont see any and it not because I dont want to, its because theres nothing nada.

Originally posted by Surreal_44
Mistypirate said:





Aww, was that supposed to hurt my feelings? I'm crying on the inside. Really.


Yes you are hurting because your baseless arguments are coming to an end. There are things and hints in the movie that supports our ideas. And you can't even come up with an intelligent point, as to why the character are doing the things they do. So I think your acting in desperation.

I think you are the one who denies in seeing these patterns. I think your the one whos twsiting the facts. We are not 2 year olds who cries everytime someone says we're wrong about j/l. On the contrary it makes us proud bc that means that they are just too damn scared that its more of j/l than w/l.

Mistypirate wrote:





Actually, I know someone who did go see the movie for Tia...anyway, that is besides the point...The point is, J/E shippers did not solely support the movie.


Also, Jack's reason for putting Will on the Flying Dutchman was to get the key. Jack knew what DJ was like, and he knew that there was a distinct possibility that Will could die, or if Will saw what the Dutchman truly looked like, he would not have agreed to go.


Jack was not going to give the compass to Will...he was selfish and TRICKED Will into getting the key. In much the same way as Jack used Norrington's men in the first movie, he used Will in the second movie.


Jack also used Elizabeth to find the chest...because he knew how to manipulate her feelings and get her to do what he wanted. She wanted to find Will, but he convinced her to find the chest. *shrug* It's not much of a difference, but it is a difference.


Jack has always had the courage to do what was right, it was just not always what he wanted to do. I don't think Elizabeth 'made' him a good man (he already was one), although her belief in him might have helped in his decision to go back to the ship. Having someone believe in you, no matter what, can make all the difference. However, I don't think that it was her LOVE that changed him.


And besides, she chained him to a ship to die....not because of her temptation (I'm sorry, that's one of the funniest ideas I've heard), but because Jack proved himself to be untrustworthy. He came back, but she didn't trust him to stay, so she made certain that he did.


Yes, Jack changed and evolved, but he didn't suddenly morph from a bad guy to a good guy...it was more subtle than that. He made a mistake, and now he's paying for it.


Question is, what was the mistake? There are lots of answers, and maybe all of them or none of them are correct.


I'm off for a bit. I'll finish debating you later.

Originally posted by Surreal_44


You know I kept reading this on KTTC...but I just didn't see it...See what you don't get is that we are not saying it is definitley a J/L thing...we are just saying that based on everything we saw in the movie...it points to Jack and Liz....

I would love For Jack Sparrow to be in love and find happiness beyond material possessions....but if you were to read all these threads over the past two months you will see that we are not convinced it will go that way, but we would like for it to....

We could list for you endless clues of jack and liz...but I don't see many that point to Will and Liz....

Why don't you numerate these things....see that's the problem...no one has been able to do this for me...when I would post on KTTC I was totally ignored...i would ask for this to be explained and it was like I never even posted.....

But in the long run...none of this really matters....T & T already have a plan for this....none of us really know what that is....and we won't know until May 2007....

I know I was one of those people that got angry and said DMC was a waste of time and I wouldn't be seeing AWE....I, like everyone else, got a little carried away....people make mistakes...it's human nature.

As far as I'm concerned, and I'm not the only one, if T & T don't go with a J/L love story, then whatever happens in AWE - I'm sure they will have a way to explain away or have the characters overcome everything that happened in DMC....that's acceptable to the audience....it's just at this point and time...I'm just not sure what that could be...I know what I saw and what I believe, what I got out of DMC so if the writers turn it around into something else...then I will just question alot of things, that's all......it'll just seem to me that they wasted alot of scenes and symbolisms and innuendo's on something that's going nowhere???? If all they wanted to do was use jack/liz attraction as a bump in the road to W/E happily ever after...then, they should have done something else...cuz you don't put the lead lady and the lead man in a romantic situation and not expect for many, many people to want it to go that way....I can think of alot of different things they could have done without showing us the great chemistry between Keira and Johnny on screeen....course I had already picked up on it in POTC 1 - from the very first time I saw the rescue scene....so....

JUST ME that's all...and many, many others...

And as funny at it seems, Johnny/Keira are actually very excited about the Jack/Liz relationship.

Like lovethemtigers said, we are not sure how the mvoie is going to end, the only proof that we have is the movie which, of ocurse, wont come out till may 25 2007.

The ppl from here have reread and re-seen the movie over and over again. The clues are there, the patterns are there. T&T put it all into the movie, its up to us o figure it out. And by all means it shows its clearly J/L. But its not confirmed. I just dont see nothing with Will/Liz. The marriege got interrupted because fate intervened.

Exactly Chiki there are no patterns that indicate, we will be seeing a happy, fluffy W/E ending. In DMC we see that all the characters are heading in different directions. I wasn't a J/E supporter when the first movie came. I tough that W/E had the Disney ending that they deserved. All sweet, cakes and chocolates awwww. Anyways back on topic. I never imagined, it didn't crossed my mind that J/L could be coupled up. But when I went to see the movie, and I saw all this hints, compass, symbolisms and all that crab, I was like crab they are falling for each other why didn't I never thought of that? I just fell In love with this idea. The characters heading in to a direction that never was expected. I wasn't the only one that fell in love with this idea. Asks 1 billion people to see what they will tell you. All my friends and family that has seen the movie were shock about the idea of J/L being coupled. They said shit, I never expected that the pirate would get the girl or something like that.

Will was no where even near where jack was when the compass pointed to him.

the only thing we learn to be blocked in that scene is the dutchman

Originally posted by Swann&Sparrow
I think that {refering to the compass thing} the compass pointed to Elizabeth and Jack said that she was sitting on the chest. I know that Jack didn't fall in love with Elizabeth at that time, he was still confused and not willing to realize he had an attraction to her PERSONALITY as well as her apperence. He was still the shallow minded Jack, so he was still wanting matierial possesions.

So on the ship, before he found Elizabeth, the compass was spinning. In three serperate ways, I think the first way was Elizabeth and the second was the chest. He wanted to cheat death and live so he NEEDED that chest, but he still WANTED Elizabeth. I don't know what the third point was pointing to.

So when it pointed to where Elizabeth was sitting, it made up its mind. Cause Elizabeth AND the chest was there, so Jack wasn't torn between two things. They were coincidentally in the same place, that's why the compass didn't swing to a different place for him.
Have you read what Ted Elliot said the compass was doing for Jack?

The compass wasnt working for Jack at all. All it was doing was pointing at Elizabeth and furtherst away and then back again. It wouldnt ever show him the chest thats why he gave the compass to Liz to find the chest..it wasn't pointing there for him at all...he didnt really want the chest what he wanted was her...and thats what was pissing him off I think..

I do actually think he very much accepted her in her life after he met Tia (who lead him to her IMO) he bumped into Liz and he actually takes her on board where as before he was refusing to face up to her when Will asked for help..she was on his mind right from the start yet he refused to face up to her.

DITTO Chiki......
1. a dreary rainy day...Elizabeth looking anything but happy.....the beginning of this movie starts just as it ends...Elizabeth crying over lost love
2. as Beckett says: a wedding interrupted or FATE INTERVENES....you make great efforts for Jack Sparrow's freedom......LIZ (a bit defensive) - these are not for Jack. Beckett: OH REALLY? (not convinced).....

OMG>..I can't go through this again....the list is endless. the vexed lines from Gibbs and Tia.....Norrington's : It's a curious thing....THe dress sinking to the bottom of the ocean....Jack telling Liz "this compass points to the think you WANT MOST IN THIS WORLD...not once does the camera show us that this compass points to Will...I don't see that....I see it point to Jack very clearly on two distinct times..on the Pearl and the beach....OMGee...

I'm tired of explaining this to people that just don't want to see it....I know what I see, I know what I believe and I have a woman's intuition...and I believe in what Keira says...she's very excited about the interesting developments between Jack and her character.....but if it doesn't go that way...will I be devastated....probably not...just disappointed that so much time was spent in DMC developing this to just have it all thrown away in AWE....and to say that Jack was a bump in the road...well, that's not a very nice thing to do to this very lovable character....
and as far as the 1 million.....the reveiws that I have read tell me that it's all about the action, the interesting chemistry that evolved between Liz and Jack...and JOHNNY DEPP.....and those are the facts.....and EVEN THE CREATORS OF THIS MOVIE HAVE SAID THIS TIME AND TIME AGAIN........JOHNNY DEPP AND JACK SPARROW ARE WHAT MAKE THIS TRILOGY....TAKE HIM OUT THE MIX AND YOU JUST HAVE A REGULAR OLD BOX OFFICE FLOP.....SURE YOU HAVE GOT TO HAVE OTHER CHARACTERS TO SUPPORT THE MAIN CHARACTER...BUT REALLY WITHOUT JOHNNY'S GREAT PORTRAYAL OF JACK...NOT REALLY SURE HOW MUCH FUN THIS MOVIE WOULD BE...AND MANY, MANY CRITICS HAVE SAID THIS OVER AND OVER......CUZ THE FIRST TIME I SAW IT...I MUST ADMIT, I WASN'T ALL THAT IMPRESSED.....BUT SOMETHING ABOUT JACK/JOHNNY MADE ME WANT TO GO SEE IT AGAIN AND THE SECOND TIME AROUND I STARTED SEEING ALL THESE CLUES AND SYMBOLISMS AND WAS AMAZED WHEN I GOT ON THIS FORUM AND REALIZED HOW MANY OTHER PEOPLE HAD THE SAME THOUGHTS AND FEELINGS.....

LMAO duh!

I think you're scared, bc all you give is the same crap over and over again. Whilst we give you the same meaning but different patterns of Jack/Liz.

This is why, in my belief, LovelyOne got kicked out bc of this same little argument. Im going with my friends and I trust my girls.

We are not obsessed Jack/Liz nor we are blinded. We are intelligent ppl with kick ass theories and we look into the depth of the movie. Not everything is what it sems. If my girls and I saw a WIll/Liz possibility we are so going for it and root for them. But all I see is nothing, just a timbleweed, as dry as the dessert.

My girls dont twist facts and lesss make up crap. LovelyOne got kicked out bc what she was saying was facts and patterns from the movie. Shes not a lunatic making up crap to soil the name of Disney and POTC. They were just too scared to make a combat with her. And they should be scared bc their days are numbered...May 25, 2007.

To tell everyone the truth, I won't be disappointed if at the end of AWE they don't end up together. And if for some reason they head out in different directions. But I would be pretty much happy is if we have a scene that suggests that these two character did in fact have feelings for each other. And that there are circumstances along the way that make it impossible for them to be together. Like Liz trying to prevent Will from his fate, what if she decides to marry him in order to save him. She would be acting in a selfish impulse. She would give anything in order to save fish-face,no matter if she sacrifices what she wants more in the world. I mean Willy's fate is a fact. I don't doubt that. I could see this working out on our part if they decide to make the 4th. They would leave it open for more possibilities.

speaking from when I first saw the movie..before I became obssesed with it..I honestly came out of there telling my mum "Jack and Elizabeth have much more chemistry on screen they are far more interesting to watch" this was BEFORE I was a shipper.

The second thing I said was I bet we see Jack in movie 3 a completley different man right at the end..I bet he is all cleaned up for Elizabeth.

the third thing I said was..Will didnt really show much of an interest in Elizabeth when his father came back into his life..His dad seems to be his arc now

this was after the first time I watched it and all my friends said the same thing..except the second one.

Here's what I picked up on the Will/Liz relationship in DMC:

There wedding is stopped...because they are arrested for aiding Jack Sparrow....and is Liz upset cuz she didn't get to marry Will, no, she's upset cuz she missed out on her wedding night!!!!!!!!!!!! FATE Intervened......

Her wedding dress sinks to the bottom of the ocean

They spend most of their time apart in DMC....

Liz spends the majority of her time flirting with Jack Sparrow

Liz is not concerned enough about Will to run to him when he falls to the deck of the Pearl...instead she climbs the stairs and clings to Jack Sparrow's leg....

Liz doesn't seemed to concerned about what happend to Will and his father on the Dutchman...she is more concerned that Jack "lied" to her....

She is very cold to Will in the end.....she can't look at him....she seems angry with him to me....IMO

i know i dont have physcial proof, but i know in my heart that AWE wont disspoint us. I dont think is going to end exactly as Jack/Liz but it will incline to that(does that make sense?) We can only find out in the movie, but im sre it wont dissapoint us.

"Liz doesn't seemed to concerned about what happend to Will and his father on the Dutchman...she is more concerned that Jack "lied" to her"

I noticed that too!

oh how quickly the situation turns back to Jack..I was like "why are you not asking about his dad?"

she's just concerned that Jack lied..

It keeps happening in the movie..she's with Will and everything then turns back to Jack. All her focus turns to him it happens about 4 or 5 times..even at the end....even at the start it seems.

I was going to go onto some old threads that we typed back in July and August to copy and paste all our clues but looks like they've all been deleted....does this happen? I was looking forward to reading them all after AWE came out and see how on or off target we were...I didn't want to have to reinvent the wheel, so to speak...to show Surreal our clues and theories...not that it would change Surreal's mind...anyways,....

Forget what I just posted...went back to the page and all of a sudden the other pages are listed again...guess it's just my computer/internet doing strange things again...sorry

I believed that the J/L characters in the 1st movie had such great chemistry. But I never though that they would play wit the idea of getting them coupled in the movies. I didn't read spoilers for the 1 or 2 movies. I didn't even recall seeing the trailer for the 2nd one. So I went in to see it totally not expecting it. I remember starting to watch the film and seeing all those hints and stuff, I was like ohoh something is going on. And I remember seeing the curiosity scene for the 1st time, I was like aren't she supposed to desperately trying to find Will?. And the end was totally a shocker, when she kissed, him, cuffed him to the mast, the lines she said before running away like a. I then and there realised the reason why she did that to him. I didn't have to over analyzed it or anything. It was there in front of our faces the whole time.

Honestly if dont see that chemistry between Jack/Liz ur a fool!!! am i right or am i right?

You're right because you're right

*dreams about what's going to happen in AWE*

Originally posted by Chiki Mina
You're right because you're right

LOL!!! Thats RighT!!!

I think one of the clues we can pick up is from the AWE trailor. And maybe we can pick up more clues at the dvds special features and commentaries.

In my opinion It could have been that the reason why she cuffed him to the mast was that she realized she had very strong feelings towards him. And when he did came back at the end she did realized she felt much more stronger about him. She knew he was a good man, but was him good enough for her? could he be a good man and correspond her the same way she felt towards him? I think that was the reason why she cuffed him. She is falling in love with this man that came back and saved her, but had lied to her at the same time. I think she did it over desperation. She was trying to kill off her feelings for him because she thought Jack wouldn't never felt the same way she does. Therefore when Liz climbs down at the rowboat, Will asks, 'where is Jack"? she responds "he decideded to stay to give us a chance" IMO she was talking about giving their relationship a chance W/E. Because she already knew she had strong feelings for him, and she is obligating herself to be with Will. And, therefore kill her feelings for Jack.

Originally posted by Mistypirate
In my opinion It could have been that the reason why she cuffed him to the mast was that she realized she had very strong feelings towards him. And when he did came back at the end she did realized she felt much more stronger about him. She knew he was a good man, but was him good enough for her? could he be a good man and correspond her the same way she felt towards him? I think that was the reason why she cuffed him. She is falling in love with this man that came back and saved her, but had lied to her at the same time. I think she did it over desperation. She was trying to kill off her feelings for him because she thought Jack wouldn't never felt the same way she does. Therefore when Liz climbs down at the rowboat, Will asks, 'where is Jack"? she responds "he decideded to stay to give us a chance" IMO she was talking about giving their relationship a chance W/E. Because she already knew she had strong feelings for him, and she is obligating herself to be with Will. And, therefore kill her feelings for Jack.

I couldnt agree with you more, Misty. She thought by chaining him that it would get rid of her temptation. Instead it made her want Jack more poor idiot.

I don't know why people can't see all those clues that were given to us in the movie. It's just absurd and undeniable. Its just people aren't open to possibilities. I mean from my part I don't expect these two characters to have a cute, sweet chocolaty ending and sail away in the pearl. I would be the happiest person if this happens but I'm not expecting it. But what is undeniable, is that the characters showed feelings towards one another in DMC. And some people just can't see that.

I think they see those clues. THey are just denying it. They try to make up BS stories to proove their point which is actually prooving that they are scared.

disregard-I was being dumb

Yea that makes sense they are like Liz that denial crap lol. It seemed like they are desperate. And they can't even come up with intelligent arguments that suggest that they are going to end happily ever after

lol I think they are the 2 year olds. Surreal called me a 2 year old lol. wow how offensive. lol

Lol and how old is she? 6 months? she is still in diapers.

i dont care what they call me. I still stand on my ground.

ok crab this is not good arghhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh. chicas I gotta go. They call me in for work. crab this was supposed to be my weekend off.
Luv u all keep up the good discussions

adios xoxo.

Here's a list of clues that I think Disney puts in the movie on purpose for us (the audience) to take notice of the Jack/Elizabeth relationship (they may not be noticed the first time, but on a second viewing they are very evident):

1. Will and Liz's wedding is stopped due to them being arrested for helping _JACK. It's a horrible rainy day...Liz looks like she's at a funeral rather than a wedding....she looks like she is in mourning....

2. Lord Beckett's comment to Liz when she has him at gunpoint making him sign the letters of marque...."Take into your calculations that you have robbed my of my wedding night," He says..."Ah yes, a wedding interupted...or fate intervenes...You seem to be taking great efforts to ensure the freedom of Jack Sparrow" Liz responds, "These are not for Jack", and Beckett says, "oh really? Then for Will Turners' freedom, either way I will still need that compass..." (okay, so here he is hinting that fate has intervened to stop her from marrying the wrong man)

3. We See Jack burst out of a coffin in the opening scene...then we learn from Marty that the Captain has been acting strang(er)...and Gibbs tells us "something's got Jack vexed...." Jack's compass is working...he should want to find the key to find the chest...but it's not what his heart wants most in this world...

4. When Jack is at the desk in his cabin aboard the Pearl...we see the compass spinning..I think we are to assume it stops on Port Royal (even Ted has told us this on KTTC), then it refers back to Movie 1 to let us know what Jack is thinking of...."why is the rum always gone"...movie 1 -"but why is the rum gone" - him and Liz on the island....

5. When the group visits Tia's cabin --Will tells her they need to find the key, Tia says to Jack "the compass you bartered from me, it cannot lead you to this?" and Jack says, "Maybe, Why?" Tia smiles and says, "Ahh, Jack Sparrow don't know what he want, or maybe he do know but is loath to claim it as his own....." (IMO, this means he wants Elizabeth but cannot claim her for his own..but at the same time doesn't want to want her - and Ted even told us this is true on KTTC)
then when she tells them of the story of Davy Jones, Tia says "He was a great sailor unitl he ran afoul of something that VEXED him." Tia says it is something that vexes all men, and Will asks "What vexes men?" Gibbs offers "The sea" and the other two pirates offer some answers and Jack says "A woman". Tia then says, "A woman. He fell in love with a woman. A woman as changing, as harsh and as untameable as the sea.....he couldn't live with the pain, yet he could not die, so he cut him heart out..." (It's kind of ironic that Jack knew that it would be a woman that would vex a man....and we knew from earlier from MR. Gibbs that something's got Jack vexed...these two lines are in here for a reason --they are clues)

6. When Norrington notices that Liz is smiling after her persuade me conversation with Jack...."Curious thing..there was a time when i would have given anything for you to look like that while thinking about me..", Liz responds, "I don't know what you mean." Norrie says, "Oh, I think you do." Liz responds "Don't be absurd I trust him that's all" and Norrie starts to walk off then turns back and says, "So you never wondered how your latest finace ended up aboard the Flying Dutchman in the first place." He shakes his head and laughs.

Here Elizabeth opens the compass and it points to Jack....earlier Jack tells Elizabeth point blank that the compass points to the thing you want most in this world....
and speaking of that scene..

7. The compass scene....the chemistry between Jack and Liz cannot be denied...I know they are talking about the compass...but when Jack says "it points to the thing you want MOST in this world" - he glaces down at her lips/LIZ herself....then she knows what he is refering to cuz she gets that giddy, flirty look on her face (not frustration) and says "Oh Jack, are you telling the truth"....."every word, luv"....then he holds her hand and places the compass in them....

8. On the beach, The compass once again points to Jack and she gets aggravated saying "This compass does not work and it certainly doesn't show you what you want most." Norrington knows the compass pointed to Jack and they show a shot of Norrington rolling his eyes with an expression that says "Oh Please, just admit that you want the guy and stop kidding yourself."

9. Back on the Pearl....Jack leaves in the longboat...we see that LIZ is the one who spots him out there...then we see his conscience get the best of him...he looks at his compass....and then there he is back on the Pearl..and the first person he sees is LIZ...she looks up to him and he surrounded by a halo of light...he picks up the rifle and she climbs up the stairs and clings to his leg...she doesn't run down the steps to check on Will and hold onto Will after he has taken a hard fall from the cargo net....

10. Jack is very solemn in this final scene..very serious, very sexy, very manly...very brave and very good.....he tells Gibb..."abandon ship into the longboat"....Gibbs says, "Jack, the Pearl." and Jack responds (about a ship he has risked his life for, that he fought through hell and high water to claim) "SHE"S ONLY A SHIP, MATE"...

11. Liz approaches Jack "THank you, Jack"...and he says, "We're not free yet, luv"....the serious, endearing way he is looking at her takes my breath away....so romantic....

12. She chains him to the mast....but she is torn up about it..she even moves in for a second kiss....I think that is the big clue that she is doing this to him to take away the temptation..it's a selfish impulse....

and this all reflects back to the curiosity conversation...

Lovethemtigers you are so great. Seriously

everything you say is so true

thanks for putting so much time and effort into that post

Jack knows he wants Liz but doesn't know how to claim it...

IMO The Compass is the central theme of this movie, there is so much emphasis put on the compass....
Beckett wants the compass..
Tia wants to know why the compass isn't helping Jack to locate the chest (if that is what he wants most in this world),
Jack explains the compass to Liz in a very sensual scene to me - just the way he is looking at her, the way he place the compass in her hand....,
Liz holding the compass and it pointing to Jack each time....

Jack holding the compass in the long boat and showing back up on the Pearl to save the day...

You know something else I've been thinking about....It's not so much that Jack's not a good sailor, I mean look how he outsmarted the Commodore when stealing the Interceptor - to me that is one of Jack's finest moments "that's got to be the Best Pirate I have ever seen." and commodore: "And so it would seem." I love that part - the smile Jack flashes over his shoulder - and then when he tells will "Can you sail under the command of a pirate, or can you not?" all of Jack's clever plans run afoul - because of who? Stupid Bloody Will!!! I love that part on the deleted scenes on the island - he must say that to Elizabeth about three times....

anyways, I think Jack's problem is deep down inside he is too much of a good man - just as Barboorsa accuses him of in POTC 1 - he tells Jack that's his problem, he's too kind hearted, basically....Barboorsa says a man's easier to deal with dead...or something like that...

Because he is a good man - he is tricked twice by what vexes him most - Elizabeth - she tricks him into getting drunk and then she tricks him with the Kiss....Jack is very vunerable with Elizabeth - who would have ever thought that the roguish, happy go-lucky Pirate could be so vexed by a woman - it's kind of interesting isn't it? HA Love it....can't wait to see POTC 3 and how this will all shape out....
Attached Image (Click for original):

Surreal Wrote:

{Also, Jack's reason for putting Will on the Flying Dutchman was to get the key. Jack knew what DJ was like, and he knew that there was a distinct possibility that Will could die, or if Will saw what the Dutchman truly looked like, he would not have agreed to go.}

I agree and disagree...yes, Jack sent Will to get the key...but, he also knew Will's father was on that boat...I believe that every plan that looks selfish by Jack..is actually done for the good of every one...just like in POTC 1...Jack knew Will would be safe..he knew Davy would never accept the life of Will in exchange for his soul, and he knew Bootstrap would look out for Will and he knew that while Will was over there bonding with his Dad, then he could search for the chest without Will getting the way...he also showed confidence in Will...he had to know Will would get the key, he believed in Will


{Jack was not going to give the compass to Will...he was selfish and TRICKED Will into getting the key. In much the same way as Jack used Norrington's men in the first movie, he used Will in the second movie.}

No...wrong..Jack knows that the compass is unique...Jack is very smart. If Will needed the compass in exchange for Liz' freedom...then he had to know that someone with evil intent wanted it...if he hands it over to Will, then it could endanger not only himself but countless others once Beckett gets control of the chest and the heart of Davy..he couldn't let the compass fall into anyone's hand...besides, Will was also being selfish wanting the compass for himself and Liz if you are going to get technical...Will knows Beckett wants the compass and he also knows Beckett wants Jack for some unfinished business????


{Jack also used Elizabeth to find the chest...because he knew how to manipulate her feelings and get her to do what he wanted. She wanted to find Will, but he convinced her to find the chest. *shrug* It's not much of a difference, but it is a difference.}

But aren't Will and Liz using Jack too - they are using Jack to escape the hangman's noose...so they are also being manipulative and selfish...

you would think though..That Jack would hate her for this. But he doesnt

thats what gets me..First time she did it to him he was angry yes..he almost shot her, she was very bitter towards him..but the second time? Its so different

1. He's not angry. He's calmer than ever. He's smiling and this is an honest emotion because when he's silent he is at his most honest. He's loving it.

2. She's not angry..she's weak in the knees and trying not to kiss him again

It just shows you how far things have developed between the two since movie 1 and the firt betrayal.

Its like she tried to be angry like last time...as if she thought she could do it without caring..but no..things have changed. She leaves him yes. But its so different..she found it so hard.

It also suggests that jack was going to stay this time and do the right thing without her having to make it happen ..He's changed too.

Its actually proof that Jack has changed because something is diferent in his life since last time. Last time when he was laid bare he had nothing to fall back on after everything was gone..so we see him react like a little child who's security blanket has been snatched away when Liz does that to him..she totally took advantage and he felt totally naked and shamed..he had basically lost it and went crazy because now he's just Jack..he's forced to be Jack and there is nothing to cling on to..this is why its so dangerous for Jack the way he lives..Material objects and rum cant keep you brave and strong..its all false..how the hell is he gonna survive in a world if he cant be a pirate anymore?..On that beach scene after everything is gone..and Elizabeth is being so cold to him. He's forced to face the reality he obviously hates..he's ALONE and he cant hack it...he cant handle it....he knows that wothout his material things..all thats left is himsef and NOTHING..and NOBODY to cling onto to feel safe.

second time she does it..he desnt really CARE all that much?? anyone else notice that?

he behaves totally different...because this time he feels he has something to fall back on despite being tricked..he has nothing yet he has something..something MUCH better..he's laid bare AGAIN only this time he can hack it when everything is taken away from him because he feels he has Elizabeth now...he doesnt need Objects to feel strong and brave anymore.

I'm so surprised Elizabeth didn't realise till much later how different he behaved there..she was probably so caught up in the aftershock of how good the kiss felt to her...I dont think she realised he loved her enough to stay for her...That is obviously what hits her like a ton of bricks later on in Tia's hut.

So to sum that up..Jack builds up this image, he is so protective over his material things, he doesnt want them to be lost and taken away because if they are taken away he has to face the fact that he is so painfully alone as a human being. That is why his whole image is so important to him I think...he doesnt want to face up to the truth so he fills his life with lies(brave, fearless and happy pirate) and inanimate objects which boast greatness...

movie 2? He has someone and the keeping up of the image is no longer important to him

He's so tragic underneath. He really is IMO

I swear...I could never post so much things and have such kick ass theories like you guys lmao

so in the novelization of DMC, Norrington calls Jack out in the 3 way swordfight and says "You just want Elizabeth for your own."

I wonder if perhaps this will be in deleted scenes from the movie!!!!! that would make me so happy to look for Jack's reaction, and Will's!!!!

Plus, that would change the way I see Will's reaction to the kiss. If he already had a suspicion, it would change everything.

again you guys make some kick ass theories...wow lol my theories can never match you alls

Lots to read through...


Ok, basically, my argument is this:


Yes, there is a lot of tension between Jack and Elizabeth. Yes, they look like they could be a couple, and yes, there is an obvious connection between them. That is all undeniable.


The interpretations of what people believe is symbolic of a J/E ending are really what are up for debate. To me, there is a lot of symbolism in the movie, yes, but I don't necessarily see it as J/E winding up together.


Ummm....I'm battling a fever here (still, *sigh*), so a lot of this is probably going to not make sense, so bear with me....


I'm not going to pick out ALL of the things that people pick out to be J/E, but I will use the wedding dress as an example. It's a bit plot-devicy to me, mainly to do two things...one, to set up the breaking point of Will and Elizabeth ever returning to Port Royal (Will already lost his wedding coat by this point as well).


Both Will and Elizabeth traded their wedding clothes for more piratey garb, and I believe truly that even if W/E end up together, they probably will not be returning to Port Royal.


Eh...I had more but I'm running out of steam and I'm going to collapse over the keyboard here any minute, so I'll try to write something more coherent later.


Just to note, this is not a J/E bashing theory, this is a J/E "I don't agree with you" theory, so please do not get angry at me for not agreeing...


Oh, and LovelyOne, your drawing is really good, but there is a little mistake....


Will comes up from behind J/E/N, not in front of and to the side. He comes up probably about....meh....10? 20?feet to the right (if you are facing the same direction as the actors) from where Jack was standing on the grassy sand dune. But it's a good drawing.

Aye^^ and the sea creatures come up from behind J/E too exactly where Will did...after the Dutchman sinks to the N/E of the scene.. Will probably got round there before them..but only about 5 - 10 minutes before...and the dutchman only just sinks after Liz is looking at the compass, throws it down ans says her line, Jack says she's sitting on the chest..THEN the dutchman sinks (behind a blockage) we learn something Liz doesnt the compass really IS working for her What she wants most is Jack.

BTW..Will kept on his wedding clothes...I think

also he doesn't distinctly come round from the right at all. Its more centered than anything.

yup

That's It?? . Although I must confess, It's really good to have you here. Because you try to break our theories but at the end you are unable to. No hard feelings,Hope you feel better.

I have to say. I'm also suspicious of the sinking wedding dress. That could be hinting something else. Its a bit too obvious to hint Liz giving up on Will for good...because she HASNT yet...even in AWE she hasnt.

i dont care who bashes at who anymore.

I wasn't bashing him. I was just telling the thruth. LOL

Oh well I hope we get along and may the best theory wins

Originally posted by Chiki Mina
Oh well I hope we get along and may the best theory wins

definitely ours
They try to prove a point, but they are always unable to. Thats why I have so much fun with surreal.

lmao well they can post any theories they want, but we always come up with the points hitting the Goal. SCORE!

Oh! I remember one thing I was going to say about the compass...Ted said that if we watch closely, we'll see something Elizabeth doesn't see. I pondered on that for a bit, and well, I did notice something....


First of all, both times the compass points to Jack, he's....well...he's posing. *ggg* I don't know how else to describe it, except that he's posed...once with the spyglass, and once with his hand on his hip and looking all studly and such.


But what I really, really noticed is that Jack is never looking at Elizabeth...he's always looking away from her when she's looking at the compass and getting all frazzled that it's pointing to him.


Also, until Norrington pointed out to her how she was behaving with Jack, the compass did not point at Jack...and I assume that it was not continuously pointed at him, or else they would not have found the chest.


Will is wearing his wedding shirt and vest, possibly, but the jacket is definitely not his wedding garb. He got that on the Black Pearl.


I'm still not up to doing an in-depth J/E argument, but never you worry; I'm writing down all my brilliant thoughts and when I'm better, I'll have an entire novel to share with you.

Ahh YOUR BACK

Im too lazy to read all that lol. Someone rephrase that for me lol Ill pay you guys.

Ok and your point here is? why do you think Jack wasn't looking at her. I don't think that has no meaning but if you find one feel free to post it.

She didn't have it open before Norrington arrived, she opened it afterwards. It wasn't continuously pointing at him, because she didn't have it open all the time.



I don't really care what Will was wearing.

LMAO!!

come back with more theories so we can beat you again

Ok Chiki how did I do?

I think the fact that Jack is posing is what puts more emphasis on the fact that the compass is pointing to him....it's so obvious.....Liz thinks the compass doesn't work cuz it keeps pointing to Jack....she's also alarmed at the possibility of what Jack says to her in the curiosity conversation...that's why out of the blue (right after he says "you won't be able to resist) she says "why doesn't your compass work?)...she is in denial....she knows the compass keeps pointing at Jack and it's got her "troubled"....she knows she's attracted to Jack or else she wouldn't be all flirty with him, hence she is "troubled"....oh well...no matter what Surreal comes back with...I still believe in all the clues and symbolisms...

Im still gonna stand on my ground.

Surreal44..the compass would have pointed there anyway because moments before Jack suggested he have sex with her and we see her secretly smiling at the thought..she's smitten with him..shes attracted physically and mentally to him.

lovethemtigers you are right

they both have an emotional connection. Jack frees her sexually and Liz frees jack emtionally.

Originally posted by LovelyOne
Surreal44..the compass would have pointed there anyway because moments before Jack suggested he have sex with her and we see her secretly smiling at the thought..she's smitten with him..shes attracted physically and mentally to him.

lovethemtigers you are right

Thank you, LovelyOne...I made great posts on here and the "Am I missing something thread"...but Surreall 44 (he's been sick) and Pirates Life Fo (course he's been busy) totally look over my posts and I never get any comments from them....what about my long posts with all the clues and "facts" that point to Jack and LIz...what about my response to Surreall about what Jack is really all about....

I sooo agree with Kate and Lovely when you gals talk about how Jack isn't changing...he's just revealing his true nature....we know Jack is a good man and that he hates that about himself...because it leaves him vunerable to getting hurt, getting betrayed....look what happens to him at the end of DMC...but he is smiling....he knows Liz has come over to "his side"...in his mind, she has chosen him over the whelp....ESPECIALLLY WHEN SHE MOVES IN FOR THAT SECOND KISS>>but backs off....

Okay, here it goes...If ....If...IF....she did it to save the crew and Will and herself only....after what Jack had just done for them and her...then I will be pissed at Liz...and her character will be someone very unlikeable...but if she did it partly for that and partly to rid herself of temptatation...then, as crazy as this sounds, it makes Liz redemeable...likeable....it's all about forbidden love....cuz then she did act on selfish impulse...."one day you won't be able to resist"...and she couldnt', could she...not only did she give into kissing Jack but she also acts selfishly by getting rid of that temptation so she wouldn't have to chose between Jack and Will...she took Jack's old "cowardly, selfish" way out of the situtation...

WE'VE SAID THIS TIME AND TIME AGAIN...THE JACK THAT RETURNS TO THE PEARL...IS A JACK WE'VE NEVER SEEN BEFORE...HE'S NO LONGER WITTY AND COWARDLY...HE'S SERIOUS, STRONG, BRAVE AND GOOD-HEARTED.....I WILL BELEIVE UNTIL I'M TOLD OTHER WISE IN AWE OR BY JOHNNY OR BY TED OR TERRY...JACK WAS GOING TO STAY BEHIND OF THE PEARL...THAT'S WHY HE ALLOWED LIZ TO KISS AND CHAIN HIM UP......JACK MET THAT KRACKEN WITH ALL THE BRAVERY AND MANLINESS I'VE EVER SEEN IN A MOVIE....AND AS LOVELY HAS SAID...WHAT GIVES MAN THAT KIND OF COURAGE....THE LOVE OF A WOMAN......DESPITE WHAT ELIZABETH SAYS AND DOES...JACK KNOWS THAT SHE WANTS HIM....DESPITE EVERYTHING....I THINK JACK IS GOING TO FIGHT FOR THAT LOVE IN AWE...OR I HOPE HE WILL....WE SHALL SEE....RAMBLING NOW...TA-TA

You cant say that Jacks compass retuned for his pearl. How is he gonna recue the pearl..?? Carrying it over his shoulders? Besides he said "abandon ship...its onl a ship mate" theres something that you never expect from Jack Sparrow.

Right...that is the most significant line in the whole dang movie...."Abandon ship into the longboat"...."Jack, the Pearl?"...."She's only a ship, mate.".........SHE'S ONLY A SHIP, MATE......we know that Jack loves the Pearl more than anything...until now...he's found something he loves more....Elizabeth, IMO......the compass led him back to the Pearl to save Liz and the others....he returned the longboat to them so they could escape...without the longboat they are doomed...
Ya know...I always hated on KTTC when they claimed Jack was selfish for returning to the Pearl because he knew the Kracken was after him and he was endangering everyone...well, without Jack and the longboat they would have perished...so JACK was self-less when he returned to the PEARL.....

plus he didnt yell and said HELP ELIZBAETH HAS GONE PYSCHO AND CHAINED ME UP!! He decided to stay and sacrifice himself for the sake of Liz and others.

Anyways in Jacks return, he didnt bring the Kraken. The kraken was already there to begin with. And it was trying to get the pearl not Jack. The krkaen didnt attack the long boat.

Hmm, I dunno. The compass bussiness still seems a little fishy, I'm not just sure. It could go either way.

It depends where it points in the next movie lol^

Not alot of ppl see the depth into this movie. So far we're going beyond it but we're not exactly exagerating and we're not making it look like a fantasy.

In other words, we write what we see, not what we want to see.