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Whats up with that? Each of the 3 main characters has a friggin father but NO mother.

Elizabeth treats Will like her son

Tia treats/has treated Jack like one?

What about Elizabeth?

This has just made me think about something else too....huh thats interesting

what if Will isnt mirroring Davy/Tia and their relationship..what if he's mirroring Jack/Tia?

I think Jack might be mirroring Davy/Tia in a way. But no one is gonna want him to end up feeling like that now are they?

I don't get? In what way is Jack mirroring Davy/Tia?

that he's given his heart to someone who "appears" to not want him.

I dont think they would ever make a character go through pain like that..it wont end like that.

Also its interesting. I ultimatley think that Tia is going to end up with the NEW captain

and Jack is going to end up with Elizabeth..because Jack has come back a new man basically.

Ok, this would go along with the theory that somewhere down the line, Jack was once in a similar situation that Will is currently in now. That Jack was at one time, the upstanding lover of Tia Dalma. But her love was only temporary, for she was truly in love with Davy Jones, the great sea captain. Hence her anger in his ripping out his heart.

To continue with the story, it is now Jack who could, arguably be seen in the same position as Davy Jones. He's the great Captain who fell quietly in love with a woman who's heart was somewhat fickle. And, subsequently, it adds drama to the idea that in the rough draft script, it is Jack who greatly desires to stab the heart:

JACK SPARROW (CONTD)
I think I will stab the heart.
(Will is surprised)
I've been dead, and I dont want to go back. To live forever, and see everything there is to see - - maybe twice - - who wouldnt want that?
Will pulls his sword from the hull, joins jack looking out to sea.
JACK SPARROW (CONTD)
This life we have is cruel, Will, it mocks us were granted just a taste, if were lucky, and then its ripped away. I've been on the path to the Land of the Dead. I've been there and I've done that, I don't care do it again.

His word choice is interesting isn't it? After all, he did want to know what it tasted like with Elizabeth, didn't he?

Although it would make sense, Jack thinking Liz may not want him. But I don't think they would do that, because I't wouldn't make sense.Wasn't Tia with Davy when she supposedly left him for someone else? I mean Tia was in love with him, then fell out of love. It would make sense if it happened to Will, Liz supposedly being in love with him. Then she realises she doesn't love him, because she is in love with someone else.

Oh I know, it doesn't entirely make sense, but that was a theory that was floating around the net for a while. Some of it makes sense, some of it doesn't. Certainly, if Jack was the other man involved in the break up of Tia/ Davy, it would be ironic for him to reverse roles entirely with Davy. A strange sort of karma....

And, though we have an idea of what happened between Tia/Davy, we don't yet know the whole story. There is only pirate lore, and that isn't always accurate.

Jack is not the reason why Calypso left Davy..that happend centuries before Jack was born...Jack just became involved with Tia much later on.

I think he thought he wanted to be with her but she began to treat him like a mother as well as a lover..and he began to feel lower than her...and so their relationship did not work.

IMO its the same deal with Will and Elizabeth.

Jack wont be the one stabbing the heart. I know he's not.

what I find super duper interesting is how Tia shows such an interest in Will because he has that potential in him to be the next Captain..its like she loves the captain but not the current captain..she wants the new one.

and this really interests me if Jack is mirroring Davy/Calypso's relationship.

So you are saying that what Liz feels for Jack is only temporary, and that her real love is indeed Will? Jack may be sincere with his feelings, because in the rough draft he mentions that he would stab the heart. So Jack maybe truly in love just like Davy Jones was. But Tia was or wasn't in love with Davy, that's the part I don't understand.

nope I'm not saying that.

because Tia isnt interested in Jack anymore remember she's interested in Will...who is going to be like her old love she ran away from(Davy)..but new at the same time

Its hard to explain..to me it just suggests that Elizabeth is going to go with Jack. Jack has died and is going to come back different.

Just like Tia's Davy dies and comes back again in the form of a new man.

Originally posted by LovelyOne
Jack is not the reason why Calypso left Davy..that happend centuries before Jack was born...Jack just became involved with Tia much later on.

I think he thought he wanted to be with her but she began to treat him like a mother as well as a lover..and he began to feel lower than her...and so their relationship did not work.

IMO its the same deal with Will and Elizabeth.

Jack wont be the one stabbing the heart. I know he's not.

what I find super duper interesting is how Tia shows such an interest in Will because he has that potential in him to be the next Captain..its like she loves the captain but not the current captain..she wants the new one.

and this really interests me if Jack is mirroring Davy/Calypso's relationship.

Ok I just had another dumb moment.
Now I understand, Jack not being the reason of Calypso/Davy breakup.
Calypso is trapped In Tia's body. So yes W/E might be mirroring what happened between J/T. That would make sense. And Tia's interest in Will is undeniable, maybe Calypso sees in Will the match that she has been always looking for. But who or what was the reason Tia left Davy? Maybe there wasn't anyone else. Maybe she fell out of love because Davy wasn't true love and what she really wanted. She probably found those qualities she was looking for in Will.

My theory is this:

Tia and Jack didnt work out because they were lovers but she is far more superior to him because she is a goddess, she's like a mother to him. He is not her equal so he leaves her.

Calypso actually left her equal (Davy) I'm not sure why though..(Elizabeths behaviour towards Jack in DMC may be a clue?)

Elizabeth and Will wont work out because they are lovers but Elizabeth is far more superior to him she's like a mother to him. Will is not her equal so he will leave her.

Elizabeth actually is rejecting HER equal in DMC(jack)

Tia seems to like the thought of Will becoming her new equal (immortal captain)

Elizabeth may fall in love with Jack because he's going to come back from the dead, different and better suited to her.

just depends how long it takes for her to realise the difference in Jack.

ok, yea that actually makes a lot of sense. But I think Liz realises that Jack is her equal, but she may be denying it because she may think it would hurt Will's feelings.

exactly?? Is this what Tia did with Davy because of Jack?

I'm not sure if Calypso left Davy centuries before Jack was born..I just heard it from a few places.

Actually i do think that it was centuries before because that church on the island was a ruin..I think thats where Davy was supposed to marry Calypso.

EDIT - I'm wondering if Liz is so concentrated on Will that she has no idea just how much she is hurting Jack. I'm not sure she realises how much Jack loves her you know.

they made a point in that scene on the pearl where she doesnt see jack's hurt face when she cold shoulders him. (awe draft script)

Originally posted by LovelyOne
Actually i do think that it was centuries before because that church on the island was a ruin..I think thats where Davy was supposed to marry Calypso.

EDIT - I'm wondering if Liz is so concentrated on Will that she has no idea just how much she is hurting Jack.

they made a point in that scene on the pearl where she doesnt see jack's hurt face when she cold shoulders him. (awe draft script)

Yea you mean the ruins where the 3 of them were fighting?. That pretty much looked like a church. Wow thanks lovelyone I never noticed that.
I think Liz is so involve in saving and protecting the fish face, that she doesn't realise how much Jack is hurting. And you know whats also curious about that part in the rough draft? Is that when Jack leaves the cabin, she sits on the chair that Jack was previously sitting on and mouths Will. That part seems interesting because it appeared to be that she has realize her true feeling for Jack, obviously Jack is what is on her mind. But is forcing herself to think of Will. Why would you mouth someones name if you are supposedly already thinking of that person. Is like she was forcing herself to think of Will.

EXACTLY^^ She has to convince herself.

she's trying to push Jack away because she sees Will as her obligation.

I dont think Elizabeth is as cold hearted as Calypso was to Davy.

because what i notice with DMC is she leaves Jack to be with Will and then I think she gets the feeling tht Jack was going to stay for her anyway because he loves her. Then it smacks her in the face...she thinks she's just hurt someone who loves her..and she actually has feelings for him in return so it hurts her bad. All she does is run straight back to Jack at the end of DMC.

she might do a similar thing in AWE..but its going to be magnified.

I dont want to see Jack be left by a woman and kill himself? Do you? I dont want to see him stab the heart because Elizabeth rejects him either.

no way is it going to end like that. I think Elizabeth will come around in the end I really do...this story is supposed to show us how situations like that can be avoided. Will/Liz do avoid that davy/Calypso deal but its that avoidance of the situation that creates the mother/son deal..and so the relationship just wont work IMO

..she's going to be desperate for that not to happen to Will...and she's going to hold onto him too tight and this will only push him away to new priorities. (we get a hint of it in DMC)

this is probably what happened with Jack/Tia

Elizabeth has sort of done that to Norrington too you know. Treated him like Calypso did to Davy. This is a main reason whey she doesnt want it to happen to Will because she has seen the wreck that Norri has become because of her.

No I don't think she is as bad as calypso either, she's just being a selfish little brat. But like you said, she got smacked in the face by her actions. I hope that in AWE Jack starts cold shouldering her and starts treating her like a "proper lady", yea just ignore her. Like he says in the rough script. Right there and then she is going to realise how much Jack means to her and, she's gonna go running back to him.

Dunno if Jack will ignore..He'll probably just shove his emotions down. He wont want her to see them. Thats just he way Jack is...which is a fatal flaw in his personality because Jack needs to basically tell her how much he loves her..but he wont..he does it with actions not words and this is why Liz is so damn late to catch on to the fact at the end of DMC it seems..the fact he was probably going to stay for her anyway

Hey, I hope you don't mind if I jump in here, LovelyOne, but the question on the lack of mothers is an interesting topic. May I join in on that bit?

Originally posted by LovelyOne
My theory is this:

Tia and Jack didn't work out because they were lovers but she is far more superior to him because she is a goddess, she's like a mother to him. He is not her equal so he leaves her.

Calypso actually left her equal (Davy) I'm not sure why though..(Elizabeths behaviour towards Jack in DMC may be a clue?)

Elizabeth and Will wont work out because they are lovers but Elizabeth is far more superior to him she's like a mother to him. Will is not her equal so he will leave her.

Elizabeth actually is rejecting HER equal in DMC(jack)

Tia seems to like the thought of Will becoming her new equal (immortal captain)

Elizabeth may fall in love with Jack because he's going to come back from the dead, different and better suited to her.

just depends how long it takes for her to realise the difference in Jack. Isn't that kinda like the Odyssey , Calypso wanted to be lovers with Odysseus (jack) but i wold never work out because she was more superior to him , she didn't want him to leave her island but released him anyways , because Penelope (Elizabeth possibly , because Penelope was a mortal and w/e)

Ignore,I was just being dumb again

Originally posted by LovelyOne
Dunno if Jack will ignore..He'll probably just shove his emotions down. He wont want her to see them. Thats just he way Jack is...which is a fatal flaw in his personality because Jack needs to basically tell her how much he loves her..but he wont..he does it with actions not words and this is why Liz is so damn late to catch on to the fact at the end of DMC it seems..the fact he was probably going to stay for her anyway

Right and I think the reason why she cuffed him to the mast was that she might though Jack being the way he is, couldn't have true feelings for her, that he couldn't felt the same way she did for him. I think that was why she made this decision. But what she didn't see was that Jack probably was going to stay in order to keep her safe. She was blind to see that his actions spoked more than words. So Liz may not think that Jack could feel the same way she does for him. That was why I think she was trying to kill off his feelings for him.

Originally posted by Surreal_44
Hey, I hope you don't mind if I jump in here, LovelyOne, but the question on the lack of mothers is an interesting topic. May I join in on that bit?

course you can you dont have to ask lol

Originally posted by PIRATES=SEX
Isn't that kinda like the Odyssey , Calypso wanted to be lovers with Odysseus (jack) but i wold never work out because she was more superior to him , she didn't want him to leave her island but released him anyways , because Penelope (Elizabeth possibly , because Penelope was a mortal and w/e)

EXACTLY!

Elizabeth is Will's Calypso.

Calypso was Jack's Calypso ..she held him so tight which ultimatley drew his thoughts away to Penelope and an active longing to be with her.

She basically treats Will like penelope did to telemacus .Telemacus told her to leave him alone so he could become a man in peace. Elzabeth doesnt have faith in Will at all to be strong enough for her.

Yeah i was all sad because we have to read the Odyssey but now I'm just while were reading going to relate each potc character to one in the book and make it fun lol

LOL^^

when I say she's Will's calypso I dont mean the one that left Davy..I mean the one who clung on too tightly to Jack/Odysseus which makes him leave her! Will is going to get an active longing for someone or something else..me thinks its his dad..and or Tia..once he is the new captain he will be Tia's equal.

True true lol

"Hey, I hope you don't mind if I jump in here, LovelyOne, but the question on the lack of mothers is an interesting topic. May I join in on that bit?"-----Misty

I've noticed it, too. Lots of fairytales are this way. Some people have said it's because mothers told the stories and by making the mother in the story absent, kids learned to be grateful for their mom.
I wonder what Liz's mom was like, if she was just like Liz, and if so, if she was unhappy in her marriage. Or maybe she was a lot like Gov. Swann. It just makes you wonder what it would be like if Liz had a mom that had to deal with her daughter joining up with pirates.
I want to meet Jack's mom. Talk about a tough woman with a lot to handle.

Yes It would be interesting if the gave us some insight of who was Jack's mom. It would be nice to see what kind of woman was she?

I have a feeling his mother may be dead.

I have no doubt she is also dead, well that might be a bad thing if Liz becomes a mother. She will probably died when his son turns 10. And worst of all, if she becomes a full blown pirate.

she will need a certain person to prtect her savvy?

And that would be our beloved Jack.

If all mothers died in all potc movies. I hope liz as a mother wont die either if theres gonna be a potc 4.

It was really common for women to die after having kids back then. Having a baby is scary now, imagine how terrifying it was back then.
I would really like to know at least who Jack's mom was. I have no doubt she's dead. Being married to Keith Richards will do that to you, but I would like to think she had an adventurous, mischievious spirit like her son.

Yea maybe his mum was like like Liz, loved the sea. As well as jacks daddy...I think.

You know what would make a lot of sense, but be kind of creepy? We see a picture or something of Jack's mom and it looks a lot like Liz. They say men fall for women that are like their mothers and women fall for men like their dads. That obviously isn't true for Liz, but it might be true for Jack.

Originally posted by willofthewisp
You know what would make a lot of sense, but be kind of creepy? We see a picture or something of Jack's mom and it looks a lot like Liz. They say men fall for women that are like their mothers and women fall for men like their dads. That obviously isn't true for Liz, but it might be true for Jack.

Interesting but did they took pictures in that time?

Might...

Now I wonder if Liz mom loved the sea...hmm

She might inherited that from her mother...just a guess.

Originally posted by Mistypirate
Interesting but did they took pictures in that time?

I Dont think so, But Paintings were Big!!

It would be good to know or see.. maybe in the 4th movie how each characters mother's were. And how they died, and how they lived their lives and raise their children. I don't know, I though It would be interesting to know.

Originally posted by PirateDiva
I Dont think so, But Paintings were Big!!


OK duh I feel stupid. I forgot they used paintings. It would be cute to see a painting of Jack's mom and Jack as a kid together.

LOL....That would be cute!! I just realize we dont know to much about Jacks past....except how he was Branded a Pirate!!

lol. Yeah I wonder if Jack was like Liz as a kid

I mean after that essay that someone posted about Jack being educated and stuff it could seem like a possibility....i mean he was probably well of at one point! so maybe he was a wealthy boy longing for freedom!!!

Yea It could be that Jack lived a proper and a very restraining life. I remember reading somewhere that Jack came from a very prominent family. So yes It could be that he was in the same situation as Liz. He wanted to be free without any restraints. He probably feels that connection with Liz, among many other characteristics which makes them equal.

Originally posted by PirateDiva
I mean after that essay that someone posted about Jack being educated and stuff it could seem like a possibility....i mean he was probably well of at one point! so maybe he was a wealthy boy longing for freedom!!!

OOOO IM GLAD U MENTIONED THAT!!! Smart smart gurl!!

I believe that Jacks life was very much like Liz. Living in an uptight society and wealthy family. Jack longed for freedom like Liz.

Thats why he understand her. He understands how its like to live in a society like that.

Just one more thing to add to the Very very very long list of things of why Jack and Liz should be 2gether!!

woo hoo. points for J/E. SCORE!

We should really keep a score board...lol!!

lmao we need a black board lol.

Jack's dad was a pirate, as we know Jack was born during a typhoon, I believe, on a pirate ship, and somehow or other he ended up being a cartographer, and then eventually sailed for the East India Trading Company....


He worked for Beckett, hauling cargo and such, but one day he refused to ship some slaves, so Beckett branded him and sank Jack's ship...Was it the "Wicked Wench" or the "Wailing Wench"? I can't remember. Something Wench was the name of the ship...


So Jack made a deal with Davy Jones, raise the ship from the depths and he'd get to captain it for 13 years. When DJ raised the ship, Jack renamed it the Black Pearl and you know, sailed around until the mutiny, and then he spent 10 years trying to get the ship back.


That's all I know about Jack's past, according to Disney. It's in the game, I think. And um...maybe one of the visual guides. I'm kind of fuzzy on details right now.


As for Jack being educated, Will is educated and so is Norrington. Does that mean W/E forever too?

Will is a blacksmith, he was educated to do swords. There is no indication in the movie that Will continued his education. When we first see him in movie one he was working as a blacksmith.

Originally posted by Surreal_44
Jack's dad was a pirate, as we know Jack was born during a typhoon, I believe, on a pirate ship, and somehow or other he ended up being a cartographer, and then eventually sailed for the East India Trading Company....

As for Jack being educated, Will is educated and so is Norrington. Does that mean W/E forever too?

Jack was born in British colonial India. will is probably the least educated of the lot..which explains why Jack sees him as "bloody stupid Will"

Originally posted by Surreal_44
Jack's dad was a pirate, as we know Jack was born during a typhoon, I believe, on a pirate ship, and somehow or other he ended up being a cartographer, and then eventually sailed for the East India Trading Company....


He worked for Beckett, hauling cargo and such, but one day he refused to ship some slaves, so Beckett branded him and sank Jack's ship...Was it the "Wicked Wench" or the "Wailing Wench"? I can't remember. Something Wench was the name of the ship...


So Jack made a deal with Davy Jones, raise the ship from the depths and he'd get to captain it for 13 years. When DJ raised the ship, Jack renamed it the Black Pearl and you know, sailed around until the mutiny, and then he spent 10 years trying to get the ship back.


That's all I know about Jack's past, according to Disney. It's in the game, I think. And um...maybe one of the visual guides. I'm kind of fuzzy on details right now.


As for Jack being educated, Will is educated and so is Norrington. Does that mean W/E forever too?

We were making a comparison....trying to dig deeper into Jack's background...you know just trying to come up with an explantion to his smarts and skills!! and i guess what I'm trying to say is that if Jack is educated then it's a PLUS...it doesn't hurt him! and maybe just maybe Jack started off the way Liz did...Living in High Society Longing For Freedom! <---thats just a Theory!!

If Jack was never educated and was a pirate for much of his life then he wouldn't even be able to read no doubt. He's very intelligent and quick of wit. He's probably been brought up well but hated the life style

Also there is no apparent evidence that Teague Sparrow is and always has been a pirate. If there is please post it

Yes i havent heard of such a thing either about Jacks Father^^...yes and look at Ragetti and Pintel and all the other Pirates they seem so ignorant. Ragetti and Pintel can't read and Yet Jack can! The only ones who have a brain are Jack and Gibbs!!

I want to know about Gibbs' past. He's cool.

All this just proves that Jack was really onto something when he said he and Liz were peas in a pod.

Ya Gibbs is an interesting character...he's like the Narrator of the story!! It was wierd because b4 he became a pirate he expressed fear of pirates in the first scene in COTBP!!! and then next thing u know he is one! I mean what we do know of Gibbs is that he was a sailor or something coming from England with Elizabeth and Gov. Swann!!

I noticed something..did u see the guys face when Jack said "she's only a ship mate" he was like "WHAT IN FLYING FOOK!!?"

Well ya cause the guy has just spent like the last 2 or 3 years of his life putting it in danger on missions and quests to save said ship!!! So when Jack said "she's only a ship mate," i'm sure Gibbs was like so all of that trouble for nothing!!

I think it was becuse Gibbs knew that Jack was giving up him precious pearl in exchange for the life of the woman he loves

Also i noticed that They are Slowly stripping Jack down in DMC....I mean first the hat (which in the first movie he went through great legnths to keep and not lose it) and then it was the Pearl (which he has worked so hard to retrieve and keep)...it's like they are stripping him from the material things that Jack loves to slowly show that at the end of DMC Jack doesnt need these things because they are slowly being replaced by a greater Love, ELIZABETH!!!

Originally posted by PirateDiva
Also i noticed that They are Slowly stripping Jack down in DMC....I mean first the hat (which in the first movie he went through great legnths to keep and not lose it) and then it was the Pearl (which he has worked so hard to retrieve and keep)...it's like they are stripping him from the material things that Jack loves to slowly show that at the end of DMC Jack doesnt need these things because they are slowly being replaced by a greater Love, ELIZABETH!!!



TOTALLY AGREE
I love it,
jack being stripped
Id LOVE to see tha!

he got his hat back at the end though.

I wonder how Jack is without his shirt.

Originally posted by Chiki Mina
I wonder how Jack is without his shirt.
HOT!! drool

Originally posted by Chiki Mina
I wonder how Jack is without his shirt.


Good Lord Chiki!!
Dont do that to me!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!devil2
i dont think I could handle myself

Originally posted by Chiki Mina
I wonder how Jack is without his shirt.

all I'm gonna say to that is

I think his scars are sexy lol

If that ever happens, might as well be prepared and bring a wet suit

Originally posted by LovelyOne
he got his hat back at the end though.

Maybe that is a sign have you ever heard of the saying that goes:
"If you love someone, let them go, and if they come back to you they belong to you"

maybe jack losing his hat symbolizes that there is something missing in his life (Elizabeth)....he really cared for his hat that is why the crew went a lil nuts trying to get it back when the monkey threw it in the water....so him getting his hat back at the end it's like the hat(Elizabeth) belongs to him no matter what....which probably means that eventually if something belongs to u....it WILL COME BACK TO YOU!!!!

I dont know what do u guys think!!!?????

Also i noticed that They are Slowly stripping Jack down in DMC....I mean first the hat (which in the first movie he went through great legnths to keep and not lose it) and then it was the Pearl (which he has worked so hard to retrieve and keep)...it's like they are stripping him from the material things that Jack loves to slowly show that at the end of DMC Jack doesnt need these things because they are slowly being replaced by a greater Love, ELIZABETH!!!

he got his hat back at the end though.-Lovelyone

Maybe that is a sign have you ever heard of the saying that goes:
"If you love someone, let them go, and if they come back to you they belong to you"

maybe jack losing his hat symbolizes that there is something missing in his life (Elizabeth)....he really cared for his hat that is why the crew went a lil nuts trying to get it back when the monkey threw it in the water....so him getting his hat back at the end it's like the hat(Elizabeth) belongs to him no matter what....which probably means that eventually if something belongs to u....it WILL COME BACK TO YOU!!!!

I dont know what do u guys think!!!?????
I think i make a good point i just want to hear what u guys think!!!

Oh I don't know if you have heard of a saying that goes like this,
"If you love something let it free, If it doesn't return it wasn't meant to be. But if it does, it will be yours for eternity."

LMAO Maybe we should do a poetry thread

Originally posted by Mistypirate
Oh I don't know if you have heard of a saying that goes like this,
"If you love something let it free, If it doesn't return it wasn't meant to be. But if it does, it will be yours for eternity."

LOL i think that is what i was trying to say i just didnt know the exact words....lol!!! but i make my point...LOL!!

I agree we should start...a poetry thread...lol!!