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I found some important work sheets handed out to me last year in film studies. One set about how story and plot can be identified in movies and some about "mise en scene" which I will post later

Hopefully this will help us understand what structure PotC1, DMC and AWE may have. Remember 2/3 are ONE story where as PotC 1 was a story on its own.

I always blab on about "mise en scene" and "narrative" and "plot". Hopefully this will help people understand the crap I speak lol.

I'll keep adding to this thread when i dig out more old stuff (am glad i held onto last years work, knew it would come in handy )

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http://img243.imageshack.us/img243/2141/narrative1oz5.jpg

http://img243.imageshack.us/img243/8421/narritive2nv1.jpg

http://img143.imageshack.us/img143/3599/narrative3ii7.jpg

http://img361.imageshack.us/img361/3827/narritive4ti4.jpg

hmm might try and resize those quickly

EDIT - I also had some stuff on the hero's 12 steps..*searches for it*

Not to argue But I think all 3 movies make a one whole story. Even though the first was an introduction of characters, is still part of the story to understand why and what is going on in dmc.

Ted and Terry said movie 1 was a story in itself on boxofficemojo.com..as in narrative structure(because they had no intention for a 2nd back then)..it started and ended and closed properly. It wasn't left open. But movie 2/3 continues from the end of course but as a new story with its own structure. It starts from an equilibrium...or possibly it started on a disruption.

IMO It was more like unfinished. Especially the ending when he was singing the song Liz taught jack. But in um how u say it..uh talking theatrically it was closed; to start a new story, a more depth to character kind.

EDIT - actually yeah I agree with you..the narrative/plot/ story structure closed properly..but certain themes raised in 1 were carried on into 2/3 i agree.

Bet u KTTC doesnt have stuff like this!!! Gosh i LOVE THIS FORUM...filled with much more brilliant ppl!! Thanks Lovelyone great stuff!!

when it comes to Propps structure I find this interesting:

Propp's 31 Functions of the Folktale: Preparatory Section:
l. One of the members of a family absents himself from home.
2. An interdiction (ban) is addressed to the hero.
3. The interdiction is violated. (The villain usually enters the story here.)
4. The villain makes an attempt at reconnaissance.
5. The villain receives information about his victim. (The villain gets an answer.)
6. The villain attempts to deceive his victim by using persuasion, magic, or deception.
7. The victim submits to deception and thereby unwittingly helps his enemy. (Hero sleeps.)

When Beckett's man saw Liz leave with Jack he let her go Beckett also gained info on Jack here. does he know that Liz entering Jack's life is going to kill Jack? I think bekett knows hes gonna die but I bet he doesnt know Tia is gonna bring him back.

I'm not actually sure we can place Propps thing over this because it depends on which characters point of view we are looking at from the start..All 3 characters are heros and are following the hero's 12 steps I think. Its not just a story based on one hero.

although I would say Jack was the family member who left home..

Jacks villain is mainly Davy in this story not Beckett, Beckett is Elizabeths enemy i would say.

EDIT - you are welcome PirateDiva
Right now its rather hard to place these structures over DMC/AWE which are one story because we havent seen the end yet..so its still pretty much guessing who the true villain is to each character.

Its possible to study DMC hard and get it but its really difficult when you dont know the conclusion of the story (well we know parts lol)

l. One of the members of a family absents himself from home.
2. An interdiction (ban) is addressed to the hero.
3. The interdiction is violated. (The villain usually enters the story here.)
4. The villain makes an attempt at reconnaissance.
5. The villain receives information about his victim. (The villain gets an answer.)
6. The villain attempts to deceive his victim by using persuasion, magic, or deception.
7. The victim submits to deception and thereby unwittingly helps his enemy. (Hero sleeps.)




Ok this from Lizzies PoV^^

1. Jack is not there he's "left home", Liz is about to get married
2. An interdiction is introduced (outlawing) wedding is legally outlawed because of Jack
3. Liz doesnt listen to this..she escapes and this is where she comes face to face with beckett??
4. Beckett tries to explore something here (hints Liz may care deeply for Jack?) then Liz's denial.
5. Beckett learns she goes off with Jack
6. The villain attempts to deceive his victim by using persuasion, magic, or deception.
7. The victim submits to deception and thereby unwittingly helps his enemy. (Hero sleeps.)

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I get the feeling these may be Jack..cuz he does lie to her and she's clearly feeling decieved by him later on..beckett is actually out of the picture now
6. Jack persuades her..lies to her about Will in order to make her help him
7. She's unwittingly helping him and she has no idea Jack is lying to her lol

(I dont think he remains her enemy but it does strangley fit no?)

Again its the shape shifter stuff.. Jack is a shape shifter to her and she is a shape shifter to him...meaning they dont understand eachother until much later on in the story...with Jack the moment is when he's reconciled with the female is when he comes back for her on the pearl...Liz still aint there yet.

Wow Lovely all of this has been really interesting to read. All of you W/E shippies can choke on it.

^^ Thats RIgHt!!

They are already choking, from their damn ego.

Heres some more on the Mise en Scene..and To Willofthewisp and other people who tell me that props/things can be added into a movie and have no meaning at all.. read the first sentence in the paragraph about props and how important they are to setting and character....yes the dog is a prop and so are the keys and so is the bone what you think it means is up to you though ..I just want people to realise that I take everything I see on screen so seriously because that is how I have been taught..and T&T/Gore were all taught similarly to me in their youth in order for them to even become writers/directors. Everything in a movie..even the lighting in some circumstances can be essential to a particular theme that is being expressed.

Also surreal44. There's an explanation of what "blocking" means so either one of us could be right about Will's location in that scene..IMO (and I stick by it) Its the blocking that is in front of the Dutchman..Terry said we the audience learn something right after she says that line about the compass not working..the only thing we see that she doesn't see is the Dutchman/Davy/Will being blocked from her view in that scene behind a large blockage..Will is to her N/E whilst the compass points S/W at Jack...

P.S forgive my random notes on the side..yes it looks like a child's writing, sorry about that

http://img156.imageshack.us/img156/8587/mes1fq0.jpg

http://img100.imageshack.us/img100/1575/mes2vf0.jpg

http://img176.imageshack.us/img176/7594/mes3gd7.jpg

This is great!! Thanks LovleyOne I think this really helps!

Welcome shannstar79. I have something interesting on "melodrama" too. Although PotC is not entirely that theme . I think many of the things Elizbabeth does in DMC links in with that theme...

ignore the ticks..that was us studying Taxi Driver lol

http://img247.imageshack.us/img247/4586/melotr4.jpg

So the COMPASS ladies and gentleman it seems, is something to show us without words what the frig is going on with Elizabeth's feelings..same goes for Jack it seems..I also think he is rather melodramatic in character..many of his actions speak louder than words.

DMC is not a domestic melodrama I dont think.

Originally posted by LovelyOne
Welcome shannstar79. I have something interesting on "melodrama" too. Although PotC is not entirely that theme . I think many of the things Elizbabeth does in DMC links in with that theme...

ignore the ticks..that was us studying Taxi Driver lol

http://img247.imageshack.us/img247/4586/melotr4.jpg

So the COMPASS ladies and gentleman it seems, is something to show us without words what the frig is going on with Elizabeth's feelings..same goes for Jack it seems..I also think he is rather melodramatic in character..many of his actions speak louder than words.

DMC is not a domestic melodrama I dont think.

I agree!! because Elizabeth's character is very melodramatic: she has her own perosnal conflits and issues to deal with and come to a closure before she can move on (with Jack hehehe) and be happy

Also in melodramas..the female is introduced to something they really want..but they feel the rest of the world wont let them have it "what would people think?" is uaually the main "problem" they feel.... They feel like they shouldt have it even though being with that person is what they desire the most and what they want the most.

You can even flip that around to Jack's perspective of Elizabeth too.

Elizabeths actions at the end say it all. She wants Jack badly, moreso than Will but she's removing the temptation of him because she thinks she shouldnt be be allowed to have Jack no matter how much more she wants him than Will...the shift of music in that scene where she almost kisses him again is melodramatic..its sympathy music on HER behalf its like "I want you so much but I cant have you" remember its only the middle of the story and tht is not her final choice before the movie closes.

Originally posted by LovelyOne
Also in melodramas..the female is introduced to something they really want..but they feel the rest of the world wont let them have it...

I think i am getting this
so Liz in introduced to Jack and wants him and his life of freedom badly, but, is she afraid the of the consequences of leaving behind a realtionship that is so Familiar? and already accepted in society?

yeah^^ that is probably it..and the same can be said for Jack. He's in conflict with something familar and something new which he wants but feels he shouldnt have

I love it, once they both wise up and realize what is most important (each other) more sparks will fly
I am so excited to see thsi movie, Thanks for all your help, I love being able to understand things better!!

Jack already has in DMC

Liz is still rather far behind lmao..slow poke

yes she is rather slow and stubborn to her own feelings as well

I agree.

I'm gonna fishout some more stuff soon

I have a yellow sheet on the narrator of the story..apparently there is one in every movie..I'm guessing its kinda Gibbs/Tia/Norrington

Originally posted by LovelyOne
I agree.

I'm gonna fishout some more stuff soon

I have a yellow sheet on the narrator of the story..apparently there is one in every movie..I'm guessing its kinda Gibbs/Tia/Norrington

ok u lost me, so there is apparently a narrator in every movie, we just dont know who it os in POTC right
so u thinkits Tia/ Gibbs/ or Norie
an I reading that right ?

Hang On shall i scan it?

yea gurl scan it I am dying to read this one!!

I always viewed Gibbs as the Narrator of the story!!

wow girls, I guess I am retarded, I never even thought about a narrator AT ALL
doh

LOL..there seems to be 3 in PotC..

http://img279.imageshack.us/img279/7567/narnt8.jpg

I also get the vibe that its Lizzies point of view bing expressed with this movie. I dont know why

That helped
and I do a gree I feel that DMC may be told from Lizzie's point of view

I thought DMC was Liz point of view. It showed to us from her point of vew where the compass points and when we see liz unsure about her feelings.

Though I think DMC was concentrated on Jacks character.

hey guys
lets keep this alive no?

Setting:
"settings within a film have the ability to envoke many kinds if responses in the audience. They can mirror the emotions of a character, establish time and place, and offer information about themes within a film."

color:
"Colors which appear dominant in scenes or those attatched to people and objects can be used to great effect in films. The sequence you have chosen may seem bled of color, featuring only dull or neutral colors and this may have been used to indicate a depressed situation or characer."

firstly there is the opening shot of the movie, I really do think this is mirroring Liz's emotions. Its gloomy, its horrible she looks sad. Its raining, its cold and dull..
The scene is drained of color, so is her dress. it looks more like a funeral..this is all before she knows her wedding is halted BTW..so is this reflecting how she dfeels about marriage? horrible and out of place?

If these is supposed to be a happy occasion for her and its supposed to be the best day of her life why is everything suggesting depression on her behalf..again this is before she even knows Will is arrested.

It also raises the theme.."she's a widow from Jack" IMO because we are introduced to him in a coffin..and then there is that line later on

I also think the island scebe..where its just pure white and all the men are just fighting there may indicate something..pure white settings likw that can indicate isolation

Yes Keeping it alive. Thank you excellent posts.

EDIT - CRUD MY BAD