Green Goblin vs Captain America

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PRAYERRUN
Green Goblin vs Captain America. who wins?

Sub_Mariner
Which Goblin?

Doesn't matter that much mind, just need to give an accurate rating depending on the Goblin.

PRAYERRUN
Norman Osborne

Sparkz
Originally posted by PRAYERRUN
Norman Osborne

It's spelt "Osborn" stick out tongue

As for the fight, I give it to Osborn 9/10 as long as he stays on the Glider. and 6/10 if he is off, I think the Goblin may be to durable for cap to overly effect unlike Spidey and his strength could turn Cap into wonderpaste, but Cap has been known to take out very strong opponents aswell.

Alfheim
Originally posted by Sparkz
It's spelt "Osborn" stick out tongue

As for the fight, I give it to Osborn 9/10 as long as he stays on the Glider. and 6/10 if he is off, I think the Goblin may be to durable for cap to overly effect unlike Spidey and his strength could turn Cap into wonderpaste, but Cap has been known to take out very strong opponents aswell.

Well if GG's main advantage is strength, then GG loses. I guess his strength will be 10-15 tons, if so Cap can knock people like that flat out.

Sparkz
Originally posted by Alfheim
Well if GG's main advantage is strength, then GG loses. I guess his strength will be 10-15 tons, if so Cap can knock people like that flat out.

No his main advantage is weapons and his glider, but the strength defenatly helps, and GG is class 10, but I don't think he will be very easy to KO his skin is bullet proof and wears a kevlar costume so he deffinatly can take some punishment, not saying can't KO him but it won't be easy.

Alfheim
Originally posted by Sparkz
but I don't think he will be very easy to KO his skin is bullet proof and wears a kevlar costume so he deffinatly can take some punishment, not saying can't KO him but it won't be easy.

That dont mean a damn thing. Cap can knockout bulletproof people with ease, he also doesnt need to use brute force if he decides to use pressure points.

Soljer
Make it the Ultimate versions of each.

shifty

Soljer
Oh, and yeah, Captain America has been walking ALL OVER superhuman, bullet-proof opponents.

It's like his job.

inamilist
why are people putting the Goblins against these crap people

ok, ya, norman/harry/phil arent martial artists and off the gliders probably get it handed to them

but, cap shouldn't have the capacity to down GG, neither should Wolverine. I'm sure writers "could" do it, but thats more of the hero/villian conflict, where the hero must always win.

Cap's shield would be the slowest projectile that osborn had to evade, from there, its him using his array of weapons that he is talented enough to take out spider-man with, let alone people with superhuman/enhanced/whatever superspeed.

Goblin is a character built to take out super strong, super moblie, and super fast enemies. The fact that cap or wolvie are lightyears ahead of him in h2h is moot, as, given these are the showings of the characters at the best of their abilities, neither should be able to take osborn down.

Really, how often is a GG brought off their glider? How often by slower, weaker, less mobile opponents?

braz
GG either way.

Soljer
Originally posted by inamilist
why are people putting the Goblins against these crap people

ok, ya, norman/harry/phil arent martial artists and off the gliders probably get it handed to them

but, cap shouldn't have the capacity to down GG, neither should Wolverine. I'm sure writers "could" do it, but thats more of the hero/villian conflict, where the hero must always win.

Cap's shield would be the slowest projectile that osborn had to evade, from there, its him using his array of weapons that he is talented enough to take out spider-man with, let alone people with superhuman/enhanced/whatever superspeed.

Goblin is a character built to take out super strong, super moblie, and super fast enemies. The fact that cap or wolvie are lightyears ahead of him in h2h is moot, as, given these are the showings of the characters at the best of their abilities, neither should be able to take osborn down.

Really, how often is a GG brought off their glider? How often by slower, weaker, less mobile opponents?

I wouldn't put it past Captain America to be able to shield throw Norman off his Glider.

It definitely wouldn't be the most impressive shield feat that Steve has to his name.

And in hand to hand, the Goblin would probably get it taken to him by the likes of Steve and Logan.

inamilist
Originally posted by Soljer
I wouldn't put it past Captain America to be able to shield throw Norman off his Glider.

It definitely wouldn't be the most impressive shield feat that Steve has to his name.

And in hand to hand, the Goblin would probably get it taken to him by the likes of Steve and Logan.

Thats the thing, you are only counting the high end throw feats for cap

unfortunatly i dont have a lot of comics with the norman GG, but like, even Phil could dodge things thrown at him from the ground

He was capable of evading Rhino throwing things, probably not as accurate, but way faster/harder given rhino is class 80 (ish?)

High end for both basically says that "cap can throw his shield and take down anything" and for goblin it is "dodges things that are thrown at him"

To bring the comparison back to Phil again, I'll go check this now, but im pretty sure the only 'enemy' he had that 'knocked him off his glider' would be a sentinel. I dont think cap is in league with a sentinel, and osborn makes phil look like a cheap immitation.

Alfheim
Originally posted by inamilist


He was capable of evading Rhino throwing things, probably not as accurate, but way faster/harder given rhino is class 80 (ish?)



The rhino does not count. The Rhino always loses, thats why he has a DISrespect thread.

Soljer
Originally posted by inamilist
Thats the thing, you are only counting the high end throw feats for cap

unfortunatly i dont have a lot of comics with the norman GG, but like, even Phil could dodge things thrown at him from the ground

He was capable of evading Rhino throwing things, probably not as accurate, but way faster/harder given rhino is class 80 (ish?)

High end for both basically says that "cap can throw his shield and take down anything" and for goblin it is "dodges things that are thrown at him"

To bring the comparison back to Phil again, I'll go check this now, but im pretty sure the only 'enemy' he had that 'knocked him off his glider' would be a sentinel. I dont think cap is in league with a sentinel, and osborn makes phil look like a cheap immitation.

Comparing Rhino chunking things at Norman to....CAPTAIN AMERICA'S SHIELD?!?

That isn't apples and oranges...that's more along the lines of apples and park benches.

There is NO comparison. Whatsoever.

Sub_Mariner
Originally posted by inamilist
Thats the thing, you are only counting the high end throw feats for cap

unfortunatly i dont have a lot of comics with the norman GG, but like, even Phil could dodge things thrown at him from the ground

He was capable of evading Rhino throwing things, probably not as accurate, but way faster/harder given rhino is class 80 (ish?)

High end for both basically says that "cap can throw his shield and take down anything" and for goblin it is "dodges things that are thrown at him"

To bring the comparison back to Phil again, I'll go check this now, but im pretty sure the only 'enemy' he had that 'knocked him off his glider' would be a sentinel. I dont think cap is in league with a sentinel, and osborn makes phil look like a cheap immitation.

smile

Rhino is capable of 100mph runs.

Even if Norman gets taken down, he is smart he will throw a bomb and get back on the glider or stun Cap for a while.

Yep, with it been Norman he will also go all out and just own Cap, ownage may vary, Norman 9/10 included.

inamilist
Originally posted by Alfheim
The rhino does not count. The Rhino always loses, thats why he has a DISrespect thread.

Originally posted by Soljer
Comparing Rhino chunking things at Norman to....CAPTAIN AMERICA'S SHIELD?!?

That isn't apples and oranges...that's more along the lines of apples and park benches.

There is NO comparison. Whatsoever.

Wait... hold on

Since the rhino doesnt count (ie, he always looses) can I say that Cap's feats don't count (ie, he always wins?) In both cases it is PIS driven, rhino always looses because he is the loser, cap always wins because he is the hero, therefore all the feats for these two characters are not allowed

I see your point, and no, im not saying because Phil dodged rhino that norman dodges cap

but c'mon, you guys can make better logic than that

Alfheim
Originally posted by inamilist

Since the rhino doesnt count (ie, he always looses) can I say that Cap's feats don't count (ie, he always wins?) In both cases it is PIS driven, rhino always looses because he is the loser, cap always wins because he is the hero, therefore all the feats for these two characters are not allowed


You're going off on a tangent. The fact of the matter is this, saying that somebody beat Rhino does not count because he always loses. What you need to do is give an example of a character is better represented in the comics.

Cap is not PIS driven you need to do some research on peak humans.

Ultraman Baltan
This has been done before.
Norman won 98% of the votes.

Scoobless
Norman should win... but in a comic fight he wouldn't... mainly because if he did he'd probably kill Cap

Kid Kurdy
Originally posted by Alfheim
You're going off on a tangent. The fact of the matter is this, saying that somebody beat Rhino does not count because he always loses. What you need to do is give an example of a character is better represented in the comics.

Cap is not PIS driven you need to do some research on peak humans.
Cap has by far the biggest jobber aura in the entire Marvel Universe. People always lose half of their powers while fighting him, and fight like an untrained monkey.

inamilist
Originally posted by Alfheim
You're going off on a tangent. The fact of the matter is this, saying that somebody beat Rhino does not count because he always loses. What you need to do is give an example of a character is better represented in the comics.

Cap is not PIS driven you need to do some research on peak humans.

ummmm

ALL comics are PIS driven because, ALL comics rely on a plot.

If it wasn't stupid, and it was realistic (which appears to be the opposite of PIS on these boards) then a bunch of guys with m 16s would have killed EVERY SINGLE HERO/VILLIAN that isnt immune or faster than the bullets (im not talking about bullet dodging).

yes, this is a tangent, but its really plain and simple, feats are used to get a basic idea of the powerset of a character and from there it is debated, weather they win or loose is irrelevant.

Should Rhino beat aunt may? by your logic, no, because even though he ia a class 80 capable of haning with the Hulk, he always loses.

Wow, that sure doesnt sound like PIS to me

And as to you last point. Peak Humans are, BY FAR, the most PIS centered heroes in all comics. There are scans of cap BENCHING over a ton. Nothing Cap/Batman/Daredevil do is comparable to peak level humans, and much of it is impossible given the limits of the human physiology.

Alfheim
Originally posted by inamilist


Should Rhino beat aunt may? by your logic, no, because even though he ia a class 80 capable of haning with the Hulk, he always loses.

Please use you're head and dont use extreme examples like that. You use some common sense if Rhino loses all the time how are you going to tell wether its a good feat for somebody to beat him? Please stop wasting my time and use a better example.

Cap has been able to hurt Abomination, thats PIS, but its not PIS for him to beat Crossbones. Again apply some common sense


Originally posted by inamilist

And as to you last point. Peak Humans are, BY FAR, the most PIS centered heroes in all comics.

Mantis can knock out people beings as strong as Thor, her bio says so! Therefore its not PIS those are her capabilities, it also means that other humans can do it with enough training.

Originally posted by inamilist

There are scans of cap BENCHING over a ton. Nothing Cap/Batman/Daredevil do is comparable to peak level humans, and much of it is impossible given the limits of the human physiology.

So what? Therefore that means that Peak humans can lift over a ton. You want to compare humans in the real world to those in the MU, when people like Dr Doom can build a time machine but you want to get upset because Cap can lift over a ton?

This is what I mean you obvoulsy dont understand the concept of peak human.

Originally posted by Kid Kurdy
Cap has by far the biggest jobber aura in the entire Marvel Universe. People always lose half of their powers while fighting him, and fight like an untrained monkey.

Sometimes but that happens with other characters as well. Hell I just saw some scans were Spiderman got beaten up but he should have died

inamilist
Originally posted by Alfheim
Please use you're head and dont use extreme examples like that. You use some common sense if Rhino loses all the time how are you going to tell wether its a good feat for somebody to beat him? Please stop wasting my time and use a better example.

Cap has been able to hurt Abomination, thats PIS, but its not PIS for him to beat Crossbones. Again apply some common sense

Mantis can knock out people beings as strong as Thor, her bio says so! Therefore its not PIS those are her capabilities, it also means that other humans can do it with enough training.

So what? Therefore that means that Peak humans can lift over a ton. You want to compare humans in the real world to those in the MU, when people like Dr Doom can build a time machine but you want to get upset because Cap can lift over a ton?

This is what I mean you obvoulsy dont understand the concept of peak human.


achually, one of my main points was that the idea of Peak Human is PIS, it seems we agree on this, if through differant language

but, the brunt of what I was saying has to do with the fact that you said "The Rhino doesn't count because he always looses".

Well, like many other things, the fact that the Rhino always loses is PIS. There are many people who should have not lost to him, one such being the Phil Urich Green Goblin.

You are right that it is a bad example, I was just trying to tie what I knew into the argument, as I am way more familiar with GG Phil than GG osborn

in the end, as i said before, the fact that Phil can dodge projectiles from the Rhino has nothing to do with the weather Osborn can dodge the caps shield.

Achually, there is no way for us to know weather osborn can dodge the shield, because it has never occured in the comics, and even if it did it is subject of the bias and scrutiny of the editors, artists and writers.

What we can do however, is look at past examples from other comics to try and make comclusions.

So, GG dodging a rhino projectile. Says nothing about osborn vs Cap, however, it shows a feat about the mobility and dodging capabilities of THE WORST Goblin.

OneDumbG0
I haven't read such stupidity in a long time. It takes all of Spidey's skill, agility, precog sense and weapons to dodge/disarm Cap's shield. Green Gobber's got no chance. Pure projectile-speed wise, Cap has thrown his shield to destroy attack choppers and ICBM missiles from BEHIND.

This is a four panel fight at best. Goblin zooms in on Cap and throws a pumpkin bomb, with his finger laser ready to followup. Cap blocks the explosion with his shield but the blast from the debris obscures Goblin's view of Cap. Instead of just throwing another bomb knowing that it'd be useless with Cap's indestructible and force dampening shield, Goblin makes a pass with his glider to clear away the dust cloud to gain a better view. As he makes his pass, Cap leaves his shield behind, jumps on Osborn's glider, digs into its circuitry with supersoldier strength causing him to crash. If this happens in a Cap comic, Cap leaps straight onto the glider behind Osborn, grabs a pumpkin bomb, arms it and stuff it back in his bag before Osborn knocks him off. Osborn goes boom and crashes again... this time in flames.

Cap's jobber aura works because nearly all his opponents underestimate him and that's why they fight like idiots. First half of everybody's fight with Cap is them thinking in thought bubbles, "Zounds. how can a mere man strike with such force?!" or "Good lord. What kind of inhuman speed is this?!" or "Blast! How can one man be so skilled with such a simple weapon?!" By that time, Ccap has set up his manuever and goes on to win. It ain't PIS, it's the arrogance of his opponents and Cap always capitalizes. Only way Osborn wins is if he considers Cap to be much more threatening than Spidey and starts raining bombs down on innocents forcing Cap to save people and then whacking him from behind while he's distracted. That's cheating, but Osborn's thrown dem b1tches off of bridges so I woouldn't put it above him.

Cap 8/10

PRAYERRUN
So.....everybody agrees? Cap wins?stick out tongue

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