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Average showing of Big G.

Dominus the ghost guy from Superman comics.

Bumping

Can someone tell me what's Dominus done, besides make Superman look good? As far as I know all he's done is fall victim to Superman's PIS-Vo?

until then I say Galactus wins 8/10

Big G ftw

Originally posted by Soujaboy
Can someone tell me what's Dominus done, besides make Superman look good? As far as I know all he's done is fall victim to Superman's PIS-Vo?

until then I say Galactus wins 8/10

You mean besides warp all of reality?

Warping all of reality and creating 4 new ones >>>>>>> destroying a few galaxies in battle.

http://img115.imageshack.us/img115/7810/superman138p17cd4.th.jpg

LOL Dominus lost to Superman's T-Vo, Dominus gets smashed against Galactus.

Originally posted by Soleran
LOL Dominus lost to Superman's T-Vo, Dominus gets smashed against Galactus.

What a ridiculous argument.

Fine. Galactus loses to the FF, Doctor doom, and has been taken down by alpha flight.

He loses.

Originally posted by Avalonofthewind
You mean besides warp all of reality?

Warping all of reality and creating 4 new ones >>>>>>> destroying a few galaxies in battle.

http://img115.imageshack.us/img115/7810/superman138p17cd4.th.jpg

If Dominus was truly a powerful as you say. he wouldn't have lost to superman. Especially not to his glorified version of Tp.

Originally posted by Avalonofthewind
What a ridiculous argument.

Fine. Galactus loses to the FF, Doctor doom, and has been taken down by alpha flight.

He loses.

All of which are greater threats than powerful Tp.

Originally posted by Soujaboy
If Dominus was truly a powerful as you say. he wouldn't have lost to superman. Especially not to his glorified version of Tp.

Galactus wouldn't have lost to Thor, Alpha flight, FF, get his powers stolen by Doom..etc.

That's a ridiculous double standard.

When has Galan ever altered all of time and space?

galan wins definetly

Originally posted by Avalonofthewind
Galactus wouldn't have lost to Thor, Alpha flight, FF, get his powers stolen by Doom..etc.

That's a ridiculous double standard. I agree, low showings don't negate the higher showings that a character has.

Originally posted by Avalonofthewind
Galactus wouldn't have lost to Thor, Alpha flight, FF, get his powers stolen by Doom..etc.

That's a ridiculous double standard.

FF, AF and Thor pretty much ftw pwn Supes, for a 5/10->Majority.

Yes but when Doom stole his power, it proves Galactus had the power to beat the Beyonder.

Originally posted by Sub_Mariner
FF, AF and Thor pretty much ftw pwn Supes, for a 5/10->Majority.

Yes but when Doom stole his power, it proves Galactus had the power to beat the Beyonder.

Doom was owned by Beyonder.

And Galan still lost.

This is simply another "I hate Superman" thread in disguise.

Originally posted by Sub_Mariner
Yes but when Doom stole his power, it proves Galactus had the power to beat the Beyonder. Not really, even with Big G's power Doom was nothing...

Originally posted by Avalonofthewind
What a ridiculous argument.

Fine. Galactus loses to the FF, Doctor doom, and has been taken down by alpha flight.

He loses.





So by average are they referring to his power levels or getting beat by other individuals.

Seriously if Dominus was so powerful at altering reality Superman is barely a speck to deal with, so either Superman is up their with Kismet and such or Dominus is a chump.

Galactus wins

Originally posted by Avalonofthewind
Galactus wouldn't have lost to Thor, Alpha flight, FF, get his powers stolen by Doom..etc.

That's a ridiculous double standard.

When has Galan ever altered all of time and space?

When Galactus starts losing mind battles with Jean Grey, Prof. X, Emma Frost, etc, I'll say Superman can defeat Galactus. Until that time, get that shit outa here.

Originally posted by Soleran
So by average are they referring to his power levels or getting beat by other individuals.

Seriously if Dominus was so powerful at altering reality Superman is barely a speck to deal with, so either Superman is up their with Kismet and such or Dominus is a chump.

Galactus wins

Thor and Alpha flight must then be = to eternity.

More double standards...I love it!

Originally posted by Soleran
So by average are they referring to his power levels or getting beat by other individuals.

Seriously if Dominus was so powerful at altering reality Superman is barely a speck to deal with, so either Superman is up their with Kismet and such or Dominus is a chump.

Galactus wins


Agreed

hay do like my new sig plz awnser

How immature of the majority of you to be so hypocritical, and for those who act as if they know the ins and outs of superman, T-Vo is not telekinetic nor is it illusionary.

Originally posted by harri
hay do like my new sig plz awnser
No

Originally posted by Avalonofthewind
Thor and Alpha flight must then be = to eternity.

More double standards...I love it!

We both know that Thor and Alpha Flight have much, much, more raw power than Superman does.

Originally posted by Avalonofthewind
Thor and Alpha flight must then be = to eternity.

More double standards...I love it!

No in both those fights its specifically stated Galactus is hungery/starving and thats a big difference then what you are attempting to justify with T-Vo and Dominus which is why I said

Superman is clearly beyond Dominus as it was never even said Dominus was tired/weak or anything.

Or Dominus was just a retard special to boost Superman Your pick really.

Originally posted by juggernaut66666
No shutup yours is crap

Originally posted by Soujaboy
We both know that Thor and Alpha Flight have much, much, more raw power than Superman does.

Bullshit.

Thor already lost to Superman, which you apparently can't get over.

And all it took was 1 member of alpha flight to take Galactus down.

Originally posted by harri
shutup yours is crap
Originally posted by harri
o jugg i love your new sig its mega cool

Originally posted by Soujaboy
If Dominus was truly a powerful as you say. he wouldn't have lost to superman. Especially not to his glorified version of Tp.

Galactus has lost to weaker foes countless times.

Get that shit outta here.

The dislike of superman on this forum is ridiculous as ever, and its supporters are equally immature and hypocritical.

that was for sam you idiot

Originally posted by Board Walker
The dislike of superman on this forum is ridiculous as ever, and its supporters are equally immature and hypocritical.


funnyanimation8

watever jugg

Originally posted by Soleran
funnyanimation8

Excellent representation of them Soleran

Originally posted by Soleran
funnyanimation8

Originally posted by Board Walker
Excellent representation of them Soleran


spamwank

Save your petty comments.

i almsot forgot thist thread isint even about superman

Originally posted by Soleran
No in both those fights its specifically stated Galactus is hungery/starving and thats a big difference then what you are attempting to justify with T-Vo and Dominus which is why I said

Superman is clearly beyond Dominus as it was never even said Dominus was tired/weak or anything.

Or Dominus was just a retard special to boost Superman Your pick really.

Or third...you have no clue what you're talking about.

That's the correct answer.

Now...Galaxy destroyer vs universal manipulator.

Not much of a tough choice there.

Hey whatever based on his showing there he should lose to Galactus IF its based on Galactus "average" power and not his "average" showings where small animals and carnie folks can beat him.

swe_bum_w00t2



You're just to funny, Dominus got punked by Superman's "mind powers" and Big G has that in Spades, Dominus loses again based on that fact alone.

Originally posted by Soleran
Hey whatever based on his showing there he should lose to Galactus IF its based on Galactus "average" power and not his "average" showings where small animals and carnie folks can beat him.

swe_bum_w00t2



You're just to funny, Dominus got punked by Superman's "mind powers" and Big G has that in Spades, Dominus loses again based on that fact alone.

Galactus average showings are not that great. Surfer does better than he does on average. Superman does better on average...hell, Batman does better on average.

You're hilarious. Find me where it says Superman's T-vo is just some telepathic ability. Especially contrary to what's been shown.

Let's get back to what you want to ignore. Universal reality manipulator vs Galaxy destroyer (on his best on panel showing.)

Let me know when you see a high feat with Galan wrestling Eternity under his own power...or Galactus effortlessly stopping time, or creating a multiverse.

Originally posted by Avalonofthewind
Galactus average showings are not that great. Surfer does better than he does on average. Superman does better on average...hell, Batman does better on average.

You're hilarious. Find me where it says Superman's T-vo is just some telepathic ability. Especially contrary to what's been shown.

Let's get back to what you want to ignore. Universal reality manipulator vs Galaxy destroyer (on his best on panel showing.)

Let me know when you see a high feat with Galan wrestling Eternity under his own power...or Galactus effortlessly stopping time, or creating a multiverse.

Well thats why you saw me poke fun of how the thread was created as well as poking fun at myself.

If it's based on "average" Galactus showings he is a flushdown

However its clear Dominus isn't as "powerful" as some would like to believe if T-Vo from a novice can wreck him, huh.

Originally posted by Avalonofthewind
Or third...you have no clue what you're talking about.

That's the correct answer.

Now...Galaxy destroyer vs universal manipulator.

Not much of a tough choice there.

to be fair, (and im not makeing a descision here)
in the literal sense, Galaxy destroyer versus universeal manipulator
well

if the UM cannot withstand the equivelant of a galaxy destroying inside him per say,
regardless of superior capibilities, hes still dead
im not saying that is the case here
but literally
that statement isint very conclusive
but i have no idea who dominus is so

Originally posted by Avalonofthewind
Or third...you have no clue what you're talking about.

That's the correct answer.

Now...Galaxy destroyer vs universal manipulator.

Not much of a tough choice there.
universal desrtoyer.

Originally posted by Avalonofthewind
You mean besides warp all of reality?

Warping all of reality and creating 4 new ones >>>>>>> destroying a few galaxies in battle.

http://img115.imageshack.us/img115/7810/superman138p17cd4.th.jpg
Why is Superman talking in space?

Originally posted by Milkie
Why is Superman talking in space?

Are you kidding me?

Originally posted by batdude123
Are you kidding me?


I don't believe he is now be a good boy...................


cliff

and have a nice fall!

Originally posted by batdude123
Are you kidding me?

How can he?

Originally posted by Milkie
How can he?

How can anyone? It's comics.

the scan says "He wants the status of a cosmic entity".

galactus IS a cosmic entity. i don't know much about dominus, so i don't know HOW he alters realities. who else has dominus fought? can he resist a matter manipulator of g's level? what if g used his own tp against dominus?

too much unknown, at least for me, to judge this one. we need more on dominus.

Originally posted by Avalonofthewind


This is simply another "I hate Superman" thread in disguise.

Originally posted by batdude123
Galactus has lost to weaker foes countless times.

Get that shit outta here. Didn't he get devoured by some Zombies?

Originally posted by batdude123
How can anyone? It's comics.

Not everyone

Originally posted by leonidas
the scan says "He wants the status of a cosmic entity".

Dominus simply wants her "title" because he feels that it was rightfully his.

Originally posted by leonidas
galactus IS a cosmic entity. i don't know much about dominus, so i don't know HOW he alters realities. who else has dominus fought? can he resist a matter manipulator of g's level? what if g used his own tp against dominus?

too much unknown, at least for me, to judge this one. we need more on dominus.

The scan also says "He warped ALL OF REALITY." He has the ability to do this through sheer willpower/thought. It's even in his DC bio.

Coincidentally, this is something that the UN can do as well...and Galan is afraid of it for a reason.

Galactus powers are cosmic in nature. Dominus powers are cosmic AND magic as well.

I've never seen Galactus choke eternity, uncreate someone, or freeze time effortlessly.

Originally posted by Milkie
Why is Superman talking in space?

Kismet allowed it. Her universe, her rules.

I'm not sure Dominus would actually register to Galactus.

He created alternate realities, by manipulating the minds of lesser beings.

Alternate realities in their minds.

Galactus, isn't a lesser being by any measure.

Hence the king of the world arc, where he manipulated Superman.
Lois woke him up, and he fought Dominus using T-vo.

The scan clearly says it's no illusion.
Those were existing realities.

Right after that he nearly killed Kismet.

Galactus recently was having trouble with a bunch of ships.

Originally posted by Avalonofthewind
The scan clearly says it's no illusion.
Those were existing realities.

Right after that he nearly killed Kismet.

Galactus recently was having trouble with a bunch of ships.


Great so if Galactus isn't holding back he'll just destroy the universe and not worry about his altering abilites.

Galactus wins.

Originally posted by Soleran
Great so if Galactus isn't holding back he'll just destroy the universe and not worry about his altering abilites.

Galactus wins.

Right...when has Galactus ever even come CLOSE to destroying a universe or even showing he's Eternities equal in power?

Dominus creates a few Reed Richards with UN's and takes Galan out.

Time to put up or shut up.

Originally posted by Avalonofthewind
Dominus simply wants her "title" because he feels that it was rightfully his.

so he is still not a cosmic entity. was he passed over or something? why does he feel 'entitled'?



not at a universal level, apparently because then he could simply create a reality where he has kismet's title. and i'd like to see his ability pushed against someone of more substance -- i don't think he'd have the same luck against spectre, for instance, or even darkseid. the fact that he couldn't beat supes on a mental plane also leads me to believe that perhaps his mental powers aren't that great.

i know you keep pressing these things, but i don't see enough proof to say dominus is at g's level OR that t-vo could stop g. what would it take? i'd need to see dominus fight someone well above superman and do well, and i'd need to see t-vo take out someone more proven than dominus.



nullifier can alter reality? where'd you get that idea? masters claims it destroyed and 'reset' the multiverse. i don't buy that interpretation, personally, but destroying/recreating is not 'altering reality' in the sense we've been talking about. and technically speaking, the nullifier is 'part' of galactus. with that in mind, he could and has summoned it before but he fears the consequences of it, as opposed to fearing it for itself.



g's vulnerability to magic has been blown out of proportion by forum-speak. he deals with magic just fine. ask agamotto or mephisto. strange's 'attack' did nothing to him the second time and the first time he was at the weakest he had ever been.



when g was comatose and his power was out of his control, reed feared he would destroy EVERYTHING -- all reality. he effortlessly consumed the dreaming celestial (one of the most powerful of all celestials), and was in the midst of absorbing whole timelines. in annihilation recently, he was described as the most powerful being in the universe.

you can list all his poor showings -- the only comparable jobber is darkseid -- but he is proven against loads of cosmic entities.

dominus . . . is not. nor is t-vo.

until such proof exists, i'll take g in this one.

Originally posted by leonidas
so he is still not a cosmic entity. was he passed over or something? why does he feel 'entitled'?

It was exactly that. He was passed over for the title. Where did you get that he isn't a cosmic entity? That is like saying Thanos with the IG wasn't a cosmic entity because when he killed Eternity...he BECAME eternity. It's the same thing...Dominus wants to BE Eternity.

Originally posted by leonidas
not at a universal level, apparently because then he could simply create a reality where he has kismet's title. and i'd like to see his ability pushed against someone of more substance -- i don't think he'd have the same luck against spectre, for instance, or even darkseid. the fact that he couldn't beat supes on a mental plane also leads me to believe that perhaps his mental powers aren't that great.

You don't need to alter the entire universe to beat Galactus. We both know that. Even with that said...Kismet STATED ON PANEL that is exactly what Dominus did... he altered everything.

Originally posted by leonidas
i know you keep pressing these things, but i don't see enough proof to say dominus is at g's level OR that t-vo could stop g. what would it take? i'd need to see dominus fight someone well above superman and do well, and i'd need to see t-vo take out someone more proven than dominus.

http://img261.imageshack.us/img261/8835/superman138p21wm2.th.jpg

Originally posted by leonidas
nullifier can alter reality? where'd you get that idea? masters claims it destroyed and 'reset' the multiverse. i don't buy that interpretation, personally, but destroying/recreating is not 'altering reality' in the sense we've been talking about. and technically speaking, the nullifier is 'part' of galactus. with that in mind, he could and has summoned it before but he fears the consequences of it, as opposed to fearing it for itself.

He DID show on panel proof. Maybe it's not 100% accurate but it's a very strong evidence. As for the nullifier being part of Galactus...it's obviously not in his full control as Reed or even Maelstrom can confirm.

http://img132.imageshack.us/img132/4886/12206054733xw2.th.jpg

It wouldn't be any issue to make one to use against Galan at any time.


Originally posted by leonidas
g's vulnerability to magic has been blown out of proportion by forum-speak. he deals with magic just fine. ask agamotto or mephisto. strange's 'attack' did nothing to him the second time and the first time he was at the weakest he had ever been.

Except for the godblast incident.

Originally posted by leonidas
when g was comatose and his power was out of his control, reed feared he would destroy EVERYTHING -- all reality. he effortlessly consumed the dreaming celestial (one of the most powerful of all celestials), and was in the midst of absorbing whole timelines. in annihilation recently, he was described as the most powerful being in the universe.

It still doesn't compare to eternity AND the closest we've seen of a full power galan was when he was fighting full power tyrant near birth.

Now he's been nearly taken out by some ships.

Originally posted by leonidas
you can list all his poor showings -- the only comparable jobber is darkseid -- but he is proven against loads of cosmic entities.

dominus . . . is not. nor is t-vo.

until such proof exists, i'll take g in this one.

I'll stick with the guy that nearly destroyed DC's version of eternity under his own power...plus the guy that alters all of reality for the win.

Altering all of reality > blowing up a galaxy in battle.

Dominus is so powerful in altering reality that he 'had" to let Kismet get away when she changed her form!?!

The same Dominus that can alter reality all around him and gets beat by a novice of T-Vo in a mind game?

Dominus dies against Galactcus who in turn just toys with his mind like Superman did.................

Originally posted by Soleran
Dominus is so powerful in altering reality that he 'had" to let Kismet get away when she changed her form!?!

The same Dominus that can alter reality all around him and gets beat by a novice of T-Vo in a mind game?

Dominus dies against Galactcus who in turn just toys with his mind like Superman did.................

I'd take you seriously...

but you have no proof on anything.

Dominus makes a couple of annihilation wave ships come after Galactus again. Fight over.

Now go back to your corner and sulk away.

Originally posted by Avalonofthewind
I'd take you seriously...

but you have no proof on anything.

Dominus makes a couple of annihilation wave ships come after Galactus again. Fight over.

Now go back to your corner and sulk away.

Ouch.

Originally posted by Avalonofthewind
It was exactly that. He was passed over for the title. Where did you get that he isn't a cosmic entity?

kismet said it in your scan. or she said he WANTS to be a cosmic entity. perhaps not exactly the same thing but 'wanting to become one' DOES seem to imply he is NOT one. and hasn't he been trapped and held in the phantom zone? i was looking around and decided to dl a few books with him in them to get a better idea of the character. (after reading, i may well be forced to admit i am totally wrong about him . . .)seems he is also a purely psionic entity -- composed of psionic energy. i wonder of g could absorb or manipulate him?



that's true of course, especially the level of g we're talking about. but supes seemed able to somehow sense his reality was altered even before kismet showed him. it also seemed to me that lois and jimmy were able to see that supes was acting weird as well (they saw him fighting 'no one' when supes actually believed he was fighting opponents). that implies that it was only 'superman's reality' that was altered, and not 'ALL REALITY'. that makes it more a mental creation (in supes mind) as opposed to a wanda-like completely global alteration. because of that, i think there is a very good chance g would see through the mental construct even though it may fool him briefly.



sorry bro, you lost me there. not sure what that scan proves.



i never claimed he could control it. i simply said it couldn't alter reality in the manner you were saying.



impossible to say -- g may well see through the 'reality'.



nah, not really. g was preparing to feed -- based on that alone he must have been at a lower level of power. and as i said -- calling on low showings is not the best tactic. too many low showings for everyone to start that game.



where do you get the idea that dominus was choking out an eternity level being? choking kismet is NOT the same as an eternity level being. she was in absolute control of HER realm (she was everything in her realm) but mephisto is the same in his realm, and aggamotto is the same in his. is kismet clearly above aggy and mephisto? she's only a lord of order. powerful, obviously, but how do lords of order compare to beings like mephisto and aggamotto? i'm not entirely sure to be honest. nabu was powerful (beyond kismet?) but i doubt the lords of order are very far above (if they ARE above) the vishanti.



and matched tenebrous. and inbetweener. and . . . again, low showings are meaningless. anyone can bring 'em up.



i still want to know where this dc's version of eternity came from. kismet escaped him pretty easily in any event.



i think he altered all of superman's reality -- and not completely enough that supes couldn't perceive the differences. and how do we know dominus could handle a galaxy-busting blast? or that g couldn't take him out in a tp battle? agains, g is tested. dominus is not.

Originally posted by Avalonofthewind
I'd take you seriously...

but you have no proof on anything.

Dominus makes a couple of annihilation wave ships come after Galactus again. Fight over.

Now go back to your corner and sulk away. Wait, did you read Annihlation, just a question, don't take my head off.

I like how earlier you said that this was a Superman hate thread, but you have shown just as much hate towards Galactus as the others have towards Superman.

I believe Galactus isn't also as much as a jobber as people say. Most people who say this, usually just read this forum, however, you said Surfer has shown more than Galactus. Yet why does Surfer always get one shotted against Galactus? Why does Galactus beat someone with one shot, that has beaten Strange, Surfer and Nova? Why does Galactus stand up to Agamotto? Why does Galactus beat a Mephisto that has made Surfer look like a ho to a pimp? Why does Galactus one shot Thanos, with shields? Why does Galactus forcfully beat Strange, and make him come with him? Why does Galactus beat a Tyrant (until Tyrant uses machinary) who has beaten Thanos beefed up, and a couple Surfer levels? Why does Galactus take down a full powered Tyrant that they both destroyed galaxies in there conflict? Why has Death stated that Galactus was equal to herself and Eterenty? Why has Eternity humbled Galactus? Why has Galactus owned all of the Elders with one mouth openeing? Why does Galactus basically beat In-Betweener, who in turn has beaten Death? Why does Galactus own the Skrull world, even when the whole planet is attacking him?
Shall I go on? I can go all day, and even get scans of whatever I say.

Also I would like to point out how you make this guy seem like Multi-Eternity. Would you have me believe that Moondragon with the mind gem, could take out Eternity, or even Multi-Eternity. (just a comparison)

i hear what you're saying about galactus, bb. he DOES have some pathetic showings (and i still say he jobs WAY to much), but i keep trying to say he has some GREAT ones as well. forum-speak can get tiresome.

btw, i'm not sure where the annihilation ships beating up g come in, either . . .

Originally posted by leonidas
i hear what you're saying about galactus, bb. he DOES have some pathetic showings (and i still say he jobs WAY to much), but i keep trying to say he has some GREAT ones as well. forum-speak can get tiresome.

btw, i'm not sure where the annihilation ships beating up g come in, either . . . Thats why I asked if he read the book.

Ya, the only ones I can really think of though that get repeated is:
Thor G blasting him twice. (which I think it was, but he fired two huge blasts) But what people negate to mention is after the first blast is that Galactus threw him and was about to kill him. (someone teleported Thor to safety) Oh ya, and both times Galactus wasn't even paying attention, so basically Thor cheapshotted Galactus twice to make him leave a planet.

The Four beating Galactus... with the UN. Which isn't even really beating him. More of Watcher giving them the UN, (which is an aspect of Galactus, and has also erased a universe to take out Abraxus) and Galactus not being the idiot everyone thinks he is, getting off the planet.
Also a weak Galactus.

A weak galactus losing.

Those are the three showings that seem to be said repeatidly here.
People even use these to say that Galactus will lose, which really has no meaning if they knew what happened, and if they knew the meaning of pis. More so of the Thor one, the F4 one really isn't but in a way it is.

the dr strange 'battles' are brought up often. the beating he took in the jla/avengers xover is also brought up often. even him losing to tenebrous and aegis. there are others. the alpha flight one is another that is brought up a lot in forums.

fact is, he DOES lose a lot, but he is rarely portrayed at a high level. since i was a kid i've loved galactus (still have a 2' tall action figure of the big lug!). i just wish marvel would finally give the big g some friggin' credit. i swear, he better kick someone's arse in annihilation . . .

Originally posted by leonidas
the dr strange 'battles' are brought up often. the beating he took in the jla/avengers xover is also brought up often. even him losing to tenebrous and aegis. there are others. the alpha flight one is another that is brought up a lot in forums.

fact is, he DOES lose a lot, but he is rarely portrayed at a high level. since i was a kid i've loved galactus (still have a 2' tall action figure of the big lug!). i just wish marvel would finally give the big g some friggin' credit. i swear, he better kick someone's arse in annihilation . . . The Jla/Avengers one isn't really brought up that much... anymore. I really don't know why people even bring up the one where he lost to two beings that are his equals, that one gets me.

Yup he does lose a lot, but the thing is, most people on the forum only know the two of his fights, Agamotto, and Mephisto. Yet, they know all of his losses??

Yup, Galactus is my second fave, or even tied for first. I know he has a lot of good showings, but even then, he still loses a lot for what he is to the universe.
I wish I could just skip to Annihilation 6, just to see how his unleashing goes.
He is basically used to make characters look good, that part I hate.

Originally posted by Avalonofthewind
Bullshit.

Thor already lost to Superman, which you apparently can't get over.

And all it took was 1 member of alpha flight to take Galactus down.

You believe that Superman has more raw power than Thor? That's funny considering Thor has dispalyed about a million more powers than Superman has.

Yes we all know Thor fell victim to Superman's PIS, but so has Hal, Darkseid, Doomsday, Dominus, Flash, MM, etc. All of which are characters who should have defeated The Man of PIS. It's become all to common seeing characters job to Superman.

Yes, and it took nothing but a mind game to defeat Dominus.

Originally posted by leonidas
i hear what you're saying about galactus, bb. he DOES have some pathetic showings (and i still say he jobs WAY to much), but i keep trying to say he has some GREAT ones as well. forum-speak can get tiresome.

btw, i'm not sure where the annihilation ships beating up g come in, either . . .

Yes Galactus jobs too much, I actually believe he jobbed to Thor. However I do find Thor's defeating a weak Galactus more plausible than Superman defeating a multiversal threat with a mind game.

It appears he hasn't read Annihilation. He's basically talking out of his ass in his best attempts to discredit Galactus. His time would be better spent proving his sketchy claims of Dominus power.

Originally posted by Soujaboy
You believe that Superman has more raw power than Thor? That's funny considering Thor has dispalyed about a million more powers than Superman has.

Yes we all know Thor fell victim to Superman's PIS, but so has Hal, Darkseid, Doomsday, Dominus, Flash, MM, etc. All of which are characters who should have defeated The Man of PIS. It's become all to common seeing characters job to Superman.

Yes, and it took nothing but a mind game to defeat Dominus.

The raw power of the plot device is greater than anything in history....

My god... it allowed Squirrel girl to defeat Thanos for christ sakes!
And superman's plot device is the greatest in all the cosmos...

Originally posted by Avalonofthewind
I'd take you seriously...

but you have no proof on anything.

Dominus makes a couple of annihilation wave ships come after Galactus again. Fight over.

Now go back to your corner and sulk away.

Um in case you haven't noticed, you've provided little to no proof about Dominus supposed power. Thus far all we've heard is Dominus can do this, Dominus can do that when in fact all he's done is fall to a mind game.

Where are you getting this Annihilation ship thing? Galactus lost to two universal threats who are his supposed equals. I figure that's much worse than falling to a herald lv's mind game.

Originally posted by Soujaboy
Yes Galactus jobs too much, I actually believe he jobbed to Thor. However I do find Thor's defeating a weak Galactus more plausible than Superman defeating a multiversal threat with a mind game.
He actually got cheapshotted twice, when he wasn't even looking at Thor, and (for some reason) just sitting above the planet floating in space.

Originally posted by leonidas
kismet said it in your scan. or she said he WANTS to be a cosmic entity. perhaps not exactly the same thing but 'wanting to become one' DOES seem to imply he is NOT one. and hasn't he been trapped and held in the phantom zone? i was looking around and decided to dl a few books with him in them to get a better idea of the character. (after reading, i may well be forced to admit i am totally wrong about him . . .)seems he is also a purely psionic entity -- composed of psionic energy. i wonder of g could absorb or manipulate him?

Read the scan again...he wants HER position specifically. I'm not sure why you're ignoring that Leo. It's pretty obvious that his power exceeds that of MANY cosmic entities...especially when he can create realities and is also essentially his own universe.


Originally posted by leonidas
that's true of course, especially the level of g we're talking about. but supes seemed able to somehow sense his reality was altered even before kismet showed him. it also seemed to me that lois and jimmy were able to see that supes was acting weird as well (they saw him fighting 'no one' when supes actually believed he was fighting opponents). that implies that it was only 'superman's reality' that was altered, and not 'ALL REALITY'. that makes it more a mental creation (in supes mind) as opposed to a wanda-like completely global alteration. because of that, i think there is a very good chance g would see through the mental construct even though it may fool him briefly.

Supes had no idea about what was going on until Kismet told him. It took him issues to figure it out because Kismet kept throwing hints at him. Dominus had NO interest in killings Superman at the time...just in finding Kismet.

Galactus won't have that kind of luck. In this battle...Dominus will be using his powers for the kill. Do you seriously think he'll play around with simple mental illusions when he can do alter reality on a whim? Think about what you can do when reality is your plaything.

Originally posted by leonidas
i never claimed he could control it. i simply said it couldn't alter reality in the manner you were saying.

Mr Master made a strong case for it. His case so far is stronger than yours in that regard. Sorry bro.

Originally posted by leonidas
impossible to say -- g may well see through the 'reality'.

You said it..he MAY be able to, and then again, he may not.
On top of that...Dominus won't be pulling any type of "illusions" on G. He'll be going straight for the kill as Galactus has nothing that he needs.

Originally posted by leonidas
nah, not really. g was preparing to feed -- based on that alone he must have been at a lower level of power. and as i said -- calling on low showings is not the best tactic. too many low showings for everyone to start that game.

I had no intention to, until people got hypocritical here. I prefer to use galaxy destroying galactus vs universal reality altering dominus.

Originally posted by leonidas
where do you get the idea that dominus was choking out an eternity level being? choking kismet is NOT the same as an eternity level being. she was in absolute control of HER realm (she was everything in her realm) but mephisto is the same in his realm, and aggamotto is the same in his. is kismet clearly above aggy and mephisto? she's only a lord of order. powerful, obviously, but how do lords of order compare to beings like mephisto and aggamotto? i'm not entirely sure to be honest. nabu was powerful (beyond kismet?) but i doubt the lords of order are very far above (if they ARE above) the vishanti.

I know that you aren't sure...and that is fine. Kismet is dc's eternity. If she dies, the universe dies. She's the very representation of it. Where do you get that she isn't? Her and eternity are even shown as equals in the JLA/Avengers crossoever when the universes were colliding.

Originally posted by leonidas
and matched tenebrous. and inbetweener. and . . . again, low showings are meaningless. anyone can bring 'em up.

He lost to tenebrous, and many others in his career. I'm not ignoring that either.

Originally posted by leonidas
i still want to know where this dc's version of eternity came from. kismet escaped him pretty easily in any event.

She ran after he nearly killed her. Fine, after Dominus nearly kills him. Galactus runs away.

Originally posted by leonidas
i think he altered all of superman's reality -- and not completely enough that supes couldn't perceive the differences. and how do we know dominus could handle a galaxy-busting blast? or that g couldn't take him out in a tp battle? agains, g is tested. dominus is not.

Once again, Superman only perceived them because Kismet was there throwing hints at him...but as the scan said...they were 4 distinct realities. NOT illusions. I'm not sure why you're choosing to ignore that.

Originally posted by Soujaboy
You believe that Superman has more raw power than Thor? That's funny considering Thor has dispalyed about a million more powers than Superman has.

Yes we all know Thor fell victim to Superman's PIS, but so has Hal, Darkseid, Doomsday, Dominus, Flash, MM, etc. All of which are characters who should have defeated The Man of PIS. It's become all to common seeing characters job to Superman.

Yes, and it took nothing but a mind game to defeat Dominus.

No, YOU want it to be PIS.

Sorry. While the fight was a crappy one. Supes beats Thor.

And if you think Torquasm Vo is just a "mind game" then just do us all a favor and stop responding to this thread cause you obviously don't know what you're talking about.

Then again, you thought that humans can perceive light speeds and that lighting is the speed of light.

Originally posted by leonidas
and how do we know dominus could handle a galaxy-busting blast? or that g couldn't take him out in a tp battle? agains, g is tested. dominus is not.

I asked this question 2 pages back

Originally posted by ExtraMision5555
I asked this question 2 pages back

For all intents and purposes...Dominus is immune to physical attacks.
His body is powered by souls, he can alter it to whatever he wishes, and he can create out of nothing.

He could toss Galan in the phantom zone as well. Have an ultimate nullifier handy at any time. Freeze time. Physically go at it..etc.

Originally posted by Avalonofthewind
I'd take you seriously...

but you have no proof on anything.

Dominus makes a couple of annihilation wave ships come after Galactus again. Fight over.

Now go back to your corner and sulk away.


If you don't like the reality of what your Dominus is don't get abrasive on my behalf.

Good thread, lots of good points and counterarguements.

Just remember not to get too harsh with eachother. We read and debate comics because it's fun, something we like to do. Shouldn't try to press to make it something unpleasant.

Originally posted by Avalonofthewind
Read the scan again...he wants HER position specifically. I'm not sure why you're ignoring that Leo. It's pretty obvious that his power exceeds that of MANY cosmic entities...especially when he can create realities and is also essentially his own universe.

you see this is where you lose me. where has it been said anywhere that she is 'eternity'? she's a lord of order. you may speculate she's above that station (why though, what makes you think that?) but as far as has been stated anywhere, she's a lord of order, and hence, below nabu, most powerful of the lords of order.

and where do you get he's his own universe? when he took a physical body wasn't he smashed or the souls released or something?



didn't he see that lena luthor chick as lex at one point i the 2999 arc? that was before kismet the situation. and again, the reality was only in supes' mind. you cannot possibly assume that just because superman couldn't see through it, doesn't mean galactus couldn't or wouldn't.



his power was limited, below universal certainly since he couldn't just unwrite kismet. i still see no proof that kismet=eternity, so it seems based on what we know she is below nabu in power level which would be well below eternity, no?



he did? resetting a universe is less plausible than resetting the whole multiverse? regardless, even taking his interpretation as truth the UN does not alter reality in the way we've been talking about . . .



fair enough, but that's the crux of it -- WHEN has he NOT used 'illusions' or created a reality specifically in the MIND of an opponent? he couldn't do it to kismet so he has a limit. again -- because he can screw with supes mentally does not mean he can screw with someone on g's level. you have only superman as a basis of comparison -- it's not enough to jump to the conlusion you're making, imo.



when did he TRULY (ie -- not in the mind of an opponent) alter the universe? others could perceive supes and knew he was acting oddly. and didn't lois help break the illusions he was under as well?



where do you get she IS? everyting i've read on her says she's a lord of order, illuminator of realities (whatever that means), but nothing about being the representation of the universe. if you can show proof she is, i'll gladly concede you the debate.





no he didn't. aegis's sneak attack is what beat him, and earlier in the universe, he apparently defeated BOTH of them and trapped them in the kyln.



possibly, but he's below kismet who is below nabu, it doesn't seem likely to me . . .



because if they were ACTUAL 'other realities', others in OUR universe wouldn't have perceived him acting oddly. they would EVERYONE would have been included in the alteration. they were not. that leads me to beleive it was only supes PERSONAL realities that were altered. a trick there is no guarantee could work on someone as powerful as galactus.

Originally posted by Juntai
Just remember not to get too harsh with eachother. We read and debate comics because it's fun, something we like to do. Shouldn't try to press to make it something unpleasant.

ever the voice of reason, my friend. hopefully avy is not getting TOO po'd with me. this is just one of those (rare) cases where we see things differently. i wait for the time he changes my opinion.

I'd say the two characters play in the same ballpark, the difference is that Dominus isn't important to the cosmic balance as Galactus is.
Dominus is clearly up in range that he manipulated all of reality. There's a scan of Kismet saying it on the first page. He is also wanting to take her role as embodiment of the universe... giving the impression he is up with Eternity.
We all know Galactus and his roles.

It's kind of crazy that Supes was able to play in that league, but he's been portrayed as having the most indomidable will in the DCU period. Plus it's not the first time or the last time he's played in the ballpark of beings that most forum members don't believe he can.

i'm still not buying the whole kismet=eternity bit, though. she said she was everything in . . . wherever they were, but other minor cosmics can make the same claim.

there was something i forgot to raise in my previous post to avy: he said that if kismet dies the universe dies. but . . . isn't she presumed dead? killed in the whole imperiex fiasco? and wasn't it shown there that her power was less than imperiex in that arc? or am i not recalling the events correctly?

Originally posted by leonidas
i'm still not buying the whole kismet=eternity bit, though. she said she was everything in . . . wherever they were, but other minor cosmics can make the same claim.

there was something i forgot to raise in my previous post to avy: he said that if kismet dies the universe dies. but . . . isn't she presumed dead? killed in the whole imperiex fiasco? and wasn't it shown there that her power was less than imperiex in that arc? or am i not recalling the events correctly? She said she is everything, and obtaining her role would give him Godhood. Very much along the lines of when Thanos replaced Eternity temporarily in Marvel. He thought as much as Godhood.
Who are we to argue against that?
Also, in JLA/Avengers, which led into subsequent storyarcs in the DC Universe, portrayed the two as the same. Eternity and Kismet. And established her as the embodiment of the universe again.

I'm not sure if she is dead, or presumed as much, but I haven't read Worlds at War in a while. I certainly haven't seen her in some time however.

But Imperiex was portrayed in the same light as the final evolution of Galactus. When Galactus will revert the universe to nothingness and then next universe will spawn. So it wouldn't be surprising to think she couldn't stop him, as Eternity and Galactus will eventually do the same.
Consequently, Superman defeated him too. Albiet with a little help from Kismet. lol.

Actually, now that I think about it, her appearance in JLA/Avengers happened after OWAW.

Originally posted by Juntai
She said she is everything, and obtaining her role would give him Godhood. Very much along the lines of when Thanos replaced Eternity temporarily in Marvel. He thought as much as Godhood.
Who are we to argue against that?
Also, in JLA/Avengers, which led into subsequent storyarcs in the DC Universe, portrayed the two as the same. Eternity and Kismet. And established her as the embodiment of the universe again.

I'm not sure if she is dead, or presumed as much, but I haven't read Worlds at War in a while. I certainly haven't seen her in some time however.

But Imperiex was portrayed in the same light as the final evolution of Galactus. When Galactus will revert the universe to nothingness and then next universe will spawn. So it wouldn't be surprising to think she couldn't stop him, as Eternity and Galactus will eventually do the same.
Consequently, Superman defeated him too. Albiet with a little help from Kismet. lol.

i'm not arguing against what was said in the scan -- i'm arguing against its intent. 'godhood' is a a rather ambiguous term and applies to thor as well as eternity or above. with the exception of the xover there is no real evidence she=eternity, and the xover is . . . dubious at best. still, everything i've seen of her in the books that have "real relevence" (ie -- the superman books) indicates she is a lord of order (and if magical, wouldn't she have been eradicated by spectre? nabu claimed there were no more lords of order left . . .) and nothing more. she appears to be rather . . . dead (the xover was written well before it came out, so that could easily explain her posthumus appearance in it) and the universe seems to be fine (and what IS the dcu, anyway that one being could encompass it? does she encompasss all of hypertime as well? she says she can SEE all times and realities -- a far cry from REPRESENTING 'everything' . . .)

i've also not seen dominus manipulate reality WITHOUT screwing with an individual's mind, something i'm not at all sure he could do to galactus for any real length of time.

even just being a lord of order obviously grants dominus a high status. i just don't think it is anywhere near as cut and dried as avy thinks that he beats galactus and for now i still side with big g.

Originally posted by leonidas
i'm not arguing against what was said in the scan -- i'm arguing against its intent. 'godhood' is a a rather ambiguous term and applies to thor as well as eternity or above. with the exception of the xover there is no real evidence she=eternity, and the xover is . . . dubious at best. still, everything i've seen of her in the books that have "real relevence" (ie -- the superman books) indicates she is a lord of order (and if magical, wouldn't she have been eradicated by spectre? nabu claimed there were no more lords of order left . . .) and nothing more. she appears to be rather . . . dead (the xover was written well before it came out, so that could easily explain her posthumus appearance in it) and the universe seems to be fine (and what IS the dcu, anyway that one being could encompass it? does she encompasss all of hypertime as well? she says she can SEE all times and realities -- a far cry from REPRESENTING 'everything' . . .)

i've also not seen dominus manipulate reality WITHOUT screwing with an individual's mind, something i'm not at all sure he could do to galactus for any real length of time.

even just being a lord of order obviously grants dominus a high status. i just don't think it is anywhere near as cut and dried as avy thinks that he beats galactus and for now i still side with big g. And even Eternity is not all consuming in the same sense as Kismet, unless you're trying to compare Multi-Eternity to Kismet, which is irrelivent to this either way as that's a farshot above Galactus. Regular Eternity as we most often see it is only the representation of it's given Universe.. Kismet is the same for the DCU.

Good reason for her being in the crossover.

Another good point about Day of Vengence too. I'll have to burst my brain on that one. Spectre was never shown killing her though.

In either case it doesn't change her role as it's been stated. She's important to the universe, she was born with it, as all lords of order and chaos, and each represent something. Hers happened to be the universe, Nabu's was Fate, and so on...

...and even if she had died, her mortality doesn't mean a lot in the thread, Galactus is not above dying either, and neither is Dominus. Not many characters truly are, just requires enough power.

Originally posted by Juntai
And even Eternity is not all consuming in the same sense as Kismet, unless you're trying to compare Multi-Eternity to Kismet, which is irrelivent to this either way as that's a farshot above Galactus. Regular Eternity as we most often see it is only the representation of it's given Universe.. Kismet is the same for the DCU.

regular eternity and infinity comprise the universe together, but the definition of a universe is open to interpretation. either way though, that's a fair bit off-topic -- though interesting.





thanks. i've no doubt you or avy will think of something . . .



and to use a little used turn of phrase -- therein lies the rub! where has it been stated in a book that her role is to represent the universe? taht implies temporal and spatial representation. that implies if she dies the universe is without a life force. in marvel eternity IS the universe. she sounds like a lord of order given some sort of 'position' to represent the universe. representing in this sense is not the same as being 'one' with the universe like eternity is.



that's actually pretty cool and something i didn't know, but nabu was not the dcu's 'embodiment' of fate. maybe destiny of the endless plays that role? would you say nabu and destiny are completely different 'types' of characters? too me one seems more . . . physical, while the other is a concept made manifest. does that make sense?



fair enough.

for all our discussion though, jun, you still haven't said who you think would win. you say same class -- i can almost accept that given that a lord of order is a very powerful entity in and of itself -- so does that mean you think BOTH could score some wins over the other?

Originally posted by Avalonofthewind
No, YOU want it to be PIS.

Sorry. While the fight was a crappy one. Supes beats Thor.

And if you think Torquasm Vo is just a "mind game" then just do us all a favor and stop responding to this thread cause you obviously don't know what you're talking about.

Then again, you thought that humans can perceive light speeds and that lighting is the speed of light.


The fight was PIS. If you can't percieve that, then your obviously more biased then I first thought.

From the proof you've provided that's all it appears to be. Superman basically puts his opponents in mental game where he's in total control. All this is from the little to no proof you provided though, so I may be wrong.

I was actually the one that stated humans cannot percieve light speeds, which they can't. Yes in a vacuum lightning indeed does travel at the speed of light. If I wasn't on my phone right now I'd explain this in more detail, something you've been unable to do with your version of T-vo.

You also forgot to answer my question addressing where you got this "Galactus got defeated by ships" theory.

BTW, the fact that you've resorted to insults says a lot about your argument.

Originally posted by Avalonofthewind
For all intents and purposes...Dominus is immune to physical attacks.
His body is powered by souls, he can alter it to whatever he wishes, and he can create out of nothing.


Ah, i see* athough i was intending it to be quesitning his durablility, but answered none the less

Another thing, wouldent Galactus'es absolute cosmic awareness pertty much nullify any sort of illusion/mind trick?

here are just a few things that were said about kismet as i did a little reading:

http://img280.imageshack.us/img280/8392/adventuresofsuperman560ku9.th.jpg

http://img280.imageshack.us/img280/7168/adventuresofsuperman561is8.th.jpg

http://img280.imageshack.us/img280/3786/superman139p11yb5.th.jpg

from what i have been able to figure, she was a lord of order who was then chosen to act as an intermediary for the lords of chaos AND order. she somehow helps certain special people to choose certain paths. that's why she she see down time lines and across realities -- she can see all the possible outcomes of the various choices people can make.

i'm sure she has great personal power (as do all lords of order and chaos) but her role is very different from the role played by eternity. her 'station' is an important one and a confusing one, but she strikes me more as a 'guradian' than a conceptual entity. and just because someone has a grand role, does not mean they have eternity-level power.

in my reading i have come to realize that dominus IS very powerful -- more powerful than i had thought at first -- but his powers are . . . hard to get a handle on. he takes thoughts and makes realities from them. this is something that MAY work on galactus, but i'm not sure for how long, nor am i sure dominus could steal the thoughts of a being like galactus who is more than capable of shielding his thoughts (like supes essentially did when he went into t-vo -- he only let dominus have the thoughts SUPES wanted him to have).

anyway, for all my reading, i still don't see dominus winning this, though i do think he could potentially cause g loads of headaches.

Originally posted by leonidas
regular eternity and infinity comprise the universe together, but the definition of a universe is open to interpretation. either way though, that's a fair bit off-topic -- though interesting.





thanks. i've no doubt you or avy will think of something . . .



and to use a little used turn of phrase -- therein lies the rub! where has it been stated in a book that her role is to represent the universe? taht implies temporal and spatial representation. that implies if she dies the universe is without a life force. in marvel eternity IS the universe. she sounds like a lord of order given some sort of 'position' to represent the universe. representing in this sense is not the same as being 'one' with the universe like eternity is.



that's actually pretty cool and something i didn't know, but nabu was not the dcu's 'embodiment' of fate. maybe destiny of the endless plays that role? would you say nabu and destiny are completely different 'types' of characters? too me one seems more . . . physical, while the other is a concept made manifest. does that make sense?



fair enough.

for all our discussion though, jun, you still haven't said who you think would win. you say same class -- i can almost accept that given that a lord of order is a very powerful entity in and of itself -- so does that mean you think BOTH could score some wins over the other? Nabu is a Lord of Order wrapped in flesh, he manifested his physical self.

I'm not sure what the Endless would fall into, they don't reall do anything but once or twice a decade "guest apperances" in DC comics for a panel or two.

Originally posted by leonidas
here are just a few things that were said about kismet as i did a little reading:

http://img280.imageshack.us/img280/8392/adventuresofsuperman560ku9.th.jpg

http://img280.imageshack.us/img280/7168/adventuresofsuperman561is8.th.jpg

http://img280.imageshack.us/img280/3786/superman139p11yb5.th.jpg

from what i have been able to figure, she was a lord of order who was then chosen to act as an intermediary for the lords of chaos AND order. she somehow helps certain special people to choose certain paths. that's why she she see down time lines and across realities -- she can see all the possible outcomes of the various choices people can make.

i'm sure she has great personal power (as do all lords of order and chaos) but her role is very different from the role played by eternity. her 'station' is an important one and a confusing one, but she strikes me more as a 'guradian' than a conceptual entity. and just because someone has a grand role, does not mean they have eternity-level power.

in my reading i have come to realize that dominus IS very powerful -- more powerful than i had thought at first -- but his powers are . . . hard to get a handle on. he takes thoughts and makes realities from them. this is something that MAY work on galactus, but i'm not sure for how long, nor am i sure dominus could steal the thoughts of a being like galactus who is more than capable of shielding his thoughts (like supes essentially did when he went into t-vo -- he only let dominus have the thoughts SUPES wanted him to have).

anyway, for all my reading, i still don't see dominus winning this, though i do think he could potentially cause g loads of headaches. Sounds good to me. I'm just here for the discussion, not the who can kick who's ass.

Originally posted by Juntai
Sounds good to me. I'm just here for the discussion, not the who can kick who's ass.

ditto

good points on both ends
although from reading both, it would seem galactus has a greater spectrum/power source from wich to draw from, and perhaps a beter defense against potential mental harm
with that in mind, biases aside, ide be entitled to believe galactus would emerge victorius

Originally posted by ExtraMision5555
ditto

good points on both ends
although from reading both, it would seem galactus has a greater spectrum/power source from wich to draw from, and perhaps a beter defense against potential mental harm
with that in mind, biases aside, ide be entitled to believe galactus would emerge victorius
Ditto on my behalf, too. Thanks for ExtraMission for summing this up and thanks for Leonidas and Juntai for the points given.

Originally posted by Juntai
Sounds good to me. I'm just here for the discussion, not the who can kick who's ass.



that's usually why i get into these things too. it's actually nice to have a civil discussion/debate for a change where people are actually able to listen, learn and MAYBE consider an alternate point of view. it happens too infrequently on the forum.

And kudos to me for making this thread.............

























Pats self on back with unusually long arm.

Superman talks in Space

Originally posted by leonidas
you see this is where you lose me. where has it been said anywhere that she is 'eternity'? she's a lord of order. you may speculate she's above that station (why though, what makes you think that?) but as far as has been stated anywhere, she's a lord of order, and hence, below nabu, most powerful of the lords of order.

Nabu only stated he was the most powerful Lord of Order BUT he only included the mentioned LOO from that arc. Shazam, Himself, Phantom Stranger, and Zeus (who left the universe.)

Nabu is not more powerful than the embodiment of the universe.

Originally posted by leonidas
and where do you get he's his own universe? when he took a physical body wasn't he smashed or the souls released or something?

Nope. He's been shown as a manifestation of his own universe, and able to create alternate realities. Problem is, he HAS to kill Kismet to become the center of HER reality.

He's also pretty immune to physical attacks...which are Galan's forte'.

And she is the sum of reality. She's as important if not more important that Galactus.

http://img57.imageshack.us/img57/8195/actioncomics748p104yw.th.jpg

Originally posted by leonidas
didn't he see that lena luthor chick as lex at one point i the 2999 arc? that was before kismet the situation. and again, the reality was only in supes' mind. you cannot possibly assume that just because superman couldn't see through it, doesn't mean galactus couldn't or wouldn't.

With Kismets help... she was going around as that white haired little girl or other forms.

Originally posted by leonidas
his power was limited, below universal certainly since he couldn't just unwrite kismet. i still see no proof that kismet=eternity, so it seems based on what we know she is below nabu in power level which would be well below eternity, no?

Galactus power is even MORE limited. He run's low on energy fairly quickly as well. As soon as he feeds on a planet, he need to start looking for another one. Now imagine in a battle with a being even as powerful as a Lord of Order? He's going to be using up power fairly quick. Especially against one who can warp the very reality around him. Galactus is STILL a prisoner to reality. That's cut and dry. Dominus could go to a time where Galan is weak and kill him effortlessly. Make a UN. Make Tenebrous appear. Make cosmic power shiphoning machines. Turn galactus own ship against him.

The possibilities are ENDLESS.

Originally posted by leonidas
he did? resetting a universe is less plausible than resetting the whole multiverse? regardless, even taking his interpretation as truth the UN does not alter reality in the way we've been talking about . . .

Fair enough. If you have proof to the contrary, I'd LOVE to see it.

Originally posted by leonidas
fair enough, but that's the crux of it -- WHEN has he NOT used 'illusions' or created a reality specifically in the MIND of an opponent? he couldn't do it to kismet so he has a limit. again -- because he can screw with supes mentally does not mean he can screw with someone on g's level. you have only superman as a basis of comparison -- it's not enough to jump to the conlusion you're making, imo.

Eternity/Kismet > Galactus. Once again, it is stated on panel that those four realities were REAL. Superman was STILL in Kismets reality during the time as well. The linear men found him powerful enough to get involved...and those guys RARELY get involved.

Originally posted by leonidas
when did he TRULY (ie -- not in the mind of an opponent) alter the universe? others could perceive supes and knew he was acting oddly. and didn't lois help break the illusions he was under as well?

When Kismet said he did. It's on panel. He made four realities for SUPERMAN because he wanted to draw Kismet out. Kismet still said he warped ALL OF TIME AND SPACE to do it. It wasn't in Superman's mind.

Originally posted by leonidas
where do you get she IS? everyting i've read on her says she's a lord of order, illuminator of realities (whatever that means), but nothing about being the representation of the universe. if you can show proof she is, i'll gladly concede you the debate.

She's the anchor to reality. She goes...reality goes.

http://img57.imageshack.us/img57/8195/actioncomics748p104yw.th.jpg

:Originally posted by leonidas
confused:

no he didn't. aegis's sneak attack is what beat him, and earlier in the universe, he apparently defeated BOTH of them and trapped them in the kyln.

Maybe this is a later issue. I stopped reading ahnnihalation.

Originally posted by leonidas
possibly, but he's below kismet who is below nabu, it doesn't seem likely to me . . .

By your interpretation. Galan is not all that high in the cosmic scheme either. He's less powerful than your average celestial.

Originally posted by leonidas
because if they were ACTUAL 'other realities', others in OUR universe wouldn't have perceived him acting oddly. they would EVERYONE would have been included in the alteration. they were not. that leads me to beleive it was only supes PERSONAL realities that were altered. a trick there is no guarantee could work on someone as powerful as galactus.

Again. He was still in our universe. He was ALSO in 4 other realities that were physically CREATED. All was explained in that 1st scan I posted.

Galan is still limited to time and space and MANY physical weapons and his energy levels.

Even if you don't agree with me at least you can say it would be a hell of a battle for galan.

Originally posted by leonidas
ever the voice of reason, my friend. hopefully avy is not getting TOO po'd with me. this is just one of those (rare) cases where we see things differently. i wait for the time he changes my opinion.

Not po'd at all.

I respect your debating skillz, and those with an open mind will of course see that this is in reality a good battle no matter WHO you root for.


Originally posted by UniOmni
And kudos to me for making this thread.............

Pats self on back with unusually long arm.

Not bad....now don't get a swelled head about it...

Originally posted by Avalonofthewind
Even if you don't agree with me at least you can say it would be a hell of a battle for galan.

i absolutely concede that point. i didn't respond to most of what you said because most of it you said already and i've made my case. i still see kismet as a lord of order granted a special station/function. if she is the one that opens paths for others, then without her things could get pretty screwy, but as i said -- it seems she IS dead and things are going fine.

even if we simply agree on the fact that kismet and dominus are lords of order (he is, isn't he?) then on that basis alone, he'd give g a hell of a battle.

i hear what you're saying about the realities being real -- but the fact that OUR reality remained BENEATH them indicates to me that they were only "real" to supes. it was said a couple times he takes THOUGHTS and makes them real. if g can shield his thoughts, dominus wouldn't have anything to work with, and if a reality exists BELOW the surface of the one dominus creates, g's tp and cosmic senses could and should be able to pierce whatever reality domius creates around him. g is more than capable of looking through and into the various levels of reality, and of piercing them.

the thanos reference happened in the same xover -- ds took care of thor et al., while thanos took care of supes et al., (or am i recalling that incorrectly?)

about the multiverse resetting: that argument was just rehashed in the FP g v mxy thread. good timing.

anyway, good discussion.

Originally posted by Avalonofthewind
Right...when has Galactus ever even come CLOSE to destroying a universe or even showing he's Eternities equal in power?

Dominus creates a few Reed Richards with UN's and takes Galan out.

Time to put up or shut up. I'm probably out of the loop in this particluar debate... but the UN is a aspect of Galactus. So saying Dopminus could make a few UN's is like saying he could mnake a few Galactus'. Had Dominus' showed that kind of power? If he did, couldn't Dominus just willed himself to be Kismet or willed Kismet to be dead? But he didn't?
Originally posted by Soujaboy
When Galactus starts losing mind battles with Jean Grey, Prof. X, Emma Frost, etc, I'll say Superman can defeat Galactus. Until that time, get that shit outa here. I agree with this. Professor X's strongest mind probe with Magneto's help was totally beneath Galactus' notice in 'Secret Wars.' I mean, Professor X in the Astral Plane is pretty uber. But personally, I don't T-Vo would work on Galactus. Cosmic Awareness AND his vast telepathic powers that make Professor X seem like a mere fly? Meh... I dunno...

But I'm still waiting for explanations about T-Vo with scans and context. I tried to search function, but T-Vo in those threads appeared to be voluntary, so I'm still waiting for T-Vo to be forced upon others by Superman.

I couldn't be more disappointed by the lack of flaming in here.

Originally posted by Validus
I couldn't be more disappointed by the lack of flaming in here.

see what happens when you keep your nose out of threads.

Originally posted by leonidas
i absolutely concede that point. i didn't respond to most of what you said because most of it you said already and i've made my case. i still see kismet as a lord of order granted a special station/function. if she is the one that opens paths for others, then without her things could get pretty screwy, but as i said -- it seems she IS dead and things are going fine.

She's not dead at all. Sharon Vance (basically her human avatar..aka "Strange Visitor" is dead. Kismet lives on just like Superman did after they "fused." She even spoke to Superman outside of reality after the imperiex fusion but before he went back to apokolips.

To touch on a point...JLA/Avengers takes place AFTER Our Worlds at War.
It clearly showed Eternity and Kismet as equals.

Originally posted by leonidas
even if we simply agree on the fact that kismet and dominus are lords of order (he is, isn't he?) then on that basis alone, he'd give g a hell of a battle.

Agreed. I don't think it would be an easy battle either way.

Originally posted by leonidas
i hear what you're saying about the realities being real -- but the fact that OUR reality remained BENEATH them indicates to me that they were only "real" to supes. it was said a couple times he takes THOUGHTS and makes them real. if g can shield his thoughts, dominus wouldn't have anything to work with, and if a reality exists BELOW the surface of the one dominus creates, g's tp and cosmic senses could and should be able to pierce whatever reality domius creates around him. g is more than capable of looking through and into the various levels of reality, and of piercing them.

We've definitely covered this. Dominus would be going for the kill, as would Galactus. There wouldn't be any "fake" realities since he doesn't need Galan to be his messenger for anything.


Originally posted by leonidas
the thanos reference happened in the same xover -- ds took care of thor et al., while thanos took care of supes et al., (or am i recalling that incorrectly?)

Superman and Thanos have never fought in any x-over. However, Thanos did fight Captain Marvel, and Wonder Woman. Darkseid did Omega beam Thor and the rest of the JLA/Avengers away.

Originally posted by leonidas
anyway, good discussion.

As always.

Sorry to dissapoint you Validus. Damn the civility!

Originally posted by Avalonofthewind
She's not dead at all. Sharon Vance (basically her human avatar..aka "Strange Visitor" is dead. Kismet lives on just like Superman did after they "fused." She even spoke to Superman outside of reality after the imperiex fusion but before he went back to apokolips.

To touch on a point...JLA/Avengers takes place AFTER Our Worlds at War.
It clearly showed Eternity and Kismet as equals.

i explained why that might be possible with jun. she's alive? full power? why not wiped out by spectre? have we seen her since that time? the dc sources i checked say she is presumed dead . . .



but how do you know he can create 'REAL' realities? everything i saw says he uses an opponents thoughts to forge realities. that was the point of t-vo, which limited dominus. if supes can shield his thoughts i see no reason why g couldn't.



oops, my bad. still, ww and cm ARE in supes class. if he handled them . . .







screw val!

Originally posted by leonidas
i explained why that might be possible with jun. she's alive? full power? why not wiped out by spectre? have we seen her since that time? the dc sources i checked say she is presumed dead . . .



but how do you know he can create 'REAL' realities? everything i saw says he uses an opponents thoughts to forge realities. that was the point of t-vo, which limited dominus. if supes can shield his thoughts i see no reason why g couldn't.



oops, my bad. still, ww and cm ARE in supes class. if he handled them . . .







screw val!





























She's definitely alive. As I mentioned before....SHARON VANCE died...basically an avatar for Kismet herself. Here are Kismet and Supes after Imperiex was defeated.

Here is a nice crisp scan, courtesy of my personal collection.

http://img296.imageshack.us/img296/5814/kismetnsupesdw6.th.jpg

Hope that clears that up.

Dominus realities WERE real. You're implying that all of time and space existed in Superman's head? I know we both like Supes, but even I wouldn't go THAT far. Kismet acknowledge it herself. There is no question about that.

Originally posted by leonidas
see what happens when you keep your nose out of threads.
I assure you it won't happen again.

Bumping