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No blood clones

thor just about

Thor.

Lobo's immune to magic.

Thor

Originally posted by Juntai
Lobo's immune to magic.
In what sense? Can Thor make a forcefield around him and use BFR?

Thor has a force field now?

Originally posted by General Kon-El
Thor has a force field now?

He always has....

ye i know

Thor? really? i would have thought lobo
my lobo logic is flawed

Ya know, I keep hereing about how Superman would get his butt kicked by Lobo, and yet Thor seems to win so easily. how is that?

Superman would beat Lobo fairly easily as well.

huh. that's interesting

thor

Lobo

Originally posted by Soujaboy
He always has....

no he hasn't
the rare couple of times he used it don't count as him having one in modern times.
This is because it is PIS by definition (not enough occurences combined with the last occurence before most of us were born.) and in one of the only few instances it occured in was questionable (since we don't know if the power actually came from him or mephisto).

So

Thor doesn't have a force field

But still wins.

Thor can create a forcefield at any time. Saying he's only done it once is a fallacy.

Lobo is stronger, faster, smarter and more durable, but Thor can easily BFR him.

No BFR and full powered Lobo would cream him. Hell, FULL powered one-shot original Lobo would cream Odin...actually, he has already.

Originally posted by long pig
Thor can create a forcefield at any time. Saying he's only done it once is a fallacy.

Lobo is stronger, faster, smarter and more durable, but Thor can easily BFR him.

No BFR and full powered Lobo would cream him. Hell, FULL powered one-shot original Lobo would cream Odin...actually, he has already.

It is not a fallacy. Let me explain

First of all, back in the day (many years ago) marvel had many plot devices put in to increase sales of their comics. Also, different writers over the years at marvel hq have different opinions on what powers a character has. That is why a character must not only perform a feat a statistically amount of times but they must perform a similar feat spread out throughout their careers. This is the thought process behind PIS. If you read the forum rules on the true definition of PIS then you will see that it is not a fallacy.

If a character uses a rare plot device power once then why should that be acceptable as evidence when it is actually against forum rules?

I get tired of people trying to tell me what happened in comics I ****ing own and have read. Nearly 700 issues of Thor read and people still try to convince me they know so much more.

Thor has conjured shields at least 10-20 times.

He's made them so he could fly through lava.
He's made partial shields to deflect debris.
He's made full body Shields to protect Sif.
He's made shields over an entire village.

He's done it enough for it to be canon.

Where you went wrong at is saying "If a character uses a rare plot device power once then why should that be acceptable as evidence when it is actually against forum rules?". Rare or not, Thor is capable of doing so. His powerset allows it AND he's done it. Because of that, it's allowed.
For example, Flash has IMP'd people, rarely, but he has. On here, he's allowed to do it every time because it's in his powerset, it doesn't contradict his powers and he's done it in the past.

Originally posted by long pig
I get tired of people trying to tell me what happened in comics I ****ing own and have read. Nearly 700 issues of Thor read and people still try to convince me they know so much more.

Thor has conjured shields at least 10-20 times.

He's made them so he could fly through lava.
He's made partial shields to deflect debris.
He's made full body Shields to protect Sif.
He's made shields over an entire village.

He's done it enough for it to be canon.

Where you went wrong at is saying "If a character uses a rare plot device power once then why should that be acceptable as evidence when it is actually against forum rules?". Rare or not, Thor is capable of doing so. His powerset allows it AND he's done it. Because of that, it's allowed.
For example, Flash has IMP'd people, rarely, but he has. On here, he's allowed to do it every time because it's in his powerset, it doesn't contradict his powers and he's done it in the past.

I have over 50 Thor comics (not 700 though but some are more than 20 years old)and the last time thor used a shield was before most of us were born. It is not in his power set.
Marvel has stated his power set plenty of times. Do you think writers at in modern times (from 90-now) at marvel agree for thor to have a forcefield. The answer is no!

And lastly, my reasoning is not based off what makes sense or what should be fair but solely on forum rules. And it is not PIS but SmvFL.
I quote from forum rules

SmvFL is a feat that "is not repeated or is rarely repeated again relative to the character's overall established career, as well as the character's opponents' established showings. In statistical terms, it is an outlier, something that is radically beyond the character's established capabilities ."

Very flawed logic. Just because you're too young to remember or you're too young to have read a certain comic means it's contents have no merit? I can't disagree more.

Age has nothing to do with this, there WAS no crisis for Marvel. The powers he had in the 70's weren't washed away, he still has them. Whether he uses them 24/7 is a different story.


Exactly. If you HAVE read a single Thor issue, you'd have no problem saying making a shield is not, by any means, "radically beyond" his power.

Again, the abilities he's shown in the past ARE his established powerset. No, they don't get nulled because you've never heard of them or because you have a mentality that seems to say "If it didn't happen to my generation, it doesn't mean anything.?. And, sadly enough, that's a major problem with people in their 20's and younger today. Self absorbed.

Originally posted by long pig
Very flawed logic. Just because you're too young to remember or you're too young to have read a certain comic means it's contents have no merit? I can't disagree more.

Age has nothing to do with this, there WAS no crisis for Marvel. The powers he had in the 70's weren't washed away, he still has them. Whether he uses them 24/7 is a different story.


Exactly. If you HAVE read a single Thor issue, you'd have no problem saying making a shield is not, by any means, "radically beyond" his power.

Again, the abilities he's shown in the past ARE his established powerset. No, they don't get nulled because you've never heard of them or because you have a mentality that seems to say "If it didn't happen to my generation, it doesn't mean anything.?. And, sadly enough, that's a major problem with people in their 20's and younger today. Self absorbed.

What you say makes a lot of sense. And my reasoning was a little flawed. But the reason why I say it happened a long time ago is just to show that it is an outlier. And "beyond doesn't mean greater but outlier.

In these forums we are (many if not all) somewhat fanboys to our favorite characters and haters to the characters that we don't like (our anti characters). Sometimes this makes us use some bias in our arguments. And sometimes it makes us become lawyer like and look up the rules to see what we can discredit and what we can get away with just to win for our side. The latter doesn't take into consideration of what makes sense, what is faulty, what is fair, or what will actually happen, But only what is LAW.

I am a fanboy to a certain extent and I will use whatever lawful means for my character to win or my anticharacter to lose. But not if it means I must lie to myself. For example, If I see my character losing by a certain strategy I will not post anything defending them. Or if I see my anticharacter winning using a certain strategy then I won't attack them.
So if Thor can summon an inpenetrable shield quickly then he shouldn't lose to almost anyone. And he wins this. But

with that said,
the LAW of the forum forbids Thor's shield by the forum rule quote I posted. Nothing else matters. Not good sense, fairness, nor nothing else but the Law.

But, the law does allow it. In fact, it talks about events exactly like Thor making a shield.

It basically says that a character will use any means necessary to win a fight. It says that Flash can lightspeed up to whomever we put him against and at light speed and k.o them. It's allowed because Flash has done that before, but not a lot and he's capable of it with the powers he has.

Now, that same thing applies to Thor making a shield. On here, if it's proved that Thor can make a shield and he has the necessary power to do so, then he is allowed to do so on this board. Thor meets those requirements.

Now, if there was an issue where Thor shot bullets out of his eyes and someone tried to use it here, we'd tell him that's not allowed.

How come spellcheck says the word "proven" isn't a word?

Isn't Lobo immortal?

Yep he is immortal.

What if Lobo had his powers to clone himself, would Thor be able to take care of more than ten Lobo's at the same time?

I'm undecided for the moment so I'm not saying who wins.

Originally posted by long pig

He's made them so he could fly through lava.
He's made partial shields to deflect debris.
He's made full body Shields to protect Sif.
He's made shields over an entire village.


Didn't he once protect the universe from a Nega bomb or something like that?

Originally posted by long pig
But, the law does allow it. In fact, it talks about events exactly like Thor making a shield.

It basically says that a character will use any means necessary to win a fight. It says that Flash can lightspeed up to whomever we put him against and at light speed and k.o them. It's allowed because Flash has done that before, but not a lot and he's capable of it with the powers he has.





I agree. Yes it does
But using the necessary means to win doesn't have anything to do with using a power that one should not have according to the rules. These are two entirely different concepts. For example, Thor can use the godblast over and over if he wishes as a necessary means to win in this forum. Thats because that power has been established throughout his career and it is in his official bios from marvel hq. Also, Thor shooting absolute penetrating bullets out of his eyes would still be a necessary means to win a fight but it is not allowed for the simple reason of SmvFL.

If you don't agree then explain this

SmvFL is a feat that "is not repeated or is rarely repeated again relative to the character's overall established career, as well as the character's opponents' established showings. In statistical terms, it is an outlier."

If you take that definition literally and as the letter of the LAW then there is no way for Thor to have a force shield.

Originally posted by h1a8

If you don't agree then explain this

SmvFL is a feat that "is not repeated or is rarely repeated again relative to the character's overall established career, as well as the character's opponents' established showings. In statistical terms, it is an outlier."

If you take that definition literally and as the letter of the LAW then there is no way for Thor to have a force shield.

Of course that statement doesn't make sense because you only posted half of the sentence.

Spiderman vs. Firelord, or SvFL, is a shorthand that refers to any time when a character performs a feat that their powers and skills should be blatantly insufficient for, and is not repeated or is rarely repeated again relative to the character's overall established career....

It isn't out of his skill or power set to make a force field so this doesnt apply.....

Originally posted by thedude1948
Of course that statement doesn't make sense because you only posted half of the sentence.

Spiderman vs. Firelord, or SvFL, is a shorthand that refers to any time when a character performs a feat that their powers and skills should be blatantly insufficient for, and is not repeated or is rarely repeated again relative to the character's overall established career....

It isn't out of his skill or power set to make a force field so this doesnt apply.....

That means the same thing as the half sentence.
That is why it is blatantly insufficient. Because it hasn't been established over his career. It was just a plot device. The power set of Mjlonir has already been established over Thor's career and it is only the official power set that has been consistent.

If Thor hasn't use his shield in ages, and only a few times at that, then what good reason why you think he stopped? Because writers disowned him from that power. I garuantee you that he will never ever ever use that power again. Otherwise there is nothing in the universe that can beat him. And that would make for lousy comics and loss of money and no forum debates about him.
Even superman did some crazy sh!I before in precrisis. If there was no crisis then I still wouldn't except his feats as proof. Simply because they contradict would he can do now. The same is with Thor.

Sorry but he can't use a force shield.

H1, you seem like you are grasping for straws rather than grasping everyone else's points. Unless you really want to be looked down upon as an illogical fanboy on these forums, I'd suggest you face the true and stop the bullshit.

Just because Thor hasn't used a power in the past 10 years or so, doesn't mean he can not now. It doesn't mean he forgot and it doesn't mean he was stripped of it.

It means he hasn't used it. That's all, and until a writer says(like they did with Superman) Thor's powers have been stripped, then we have no reason whatsoever to believe them gone.

Realize this: Thor from the 60's and 70's are not a different character from the Thor that we know now, they are all the same canonically. Marvel has never said that old time comics where in another dimensions, in fact, they deny it.

The only power Thor has ever had taken away was his ability to time travel, and that was done by Odin. Odin never said anything about a force field.

Stop avoiding facts because your a Lobo fan. Hell, I'm a massive Lobo fan, more so than Thor which I only moderately like. Lobo is great, but he's lose this fight.

Originally posted by long pig
H1, you seem like you are grasping for straws rather than grasping everyone else's points. Unless you really want to be looked down upon as an illogical fanboy on these forums, I'd suggest you face the true and stop the bullshit.

Just because Thor hasn't used a power in the past 10 years or so, doesn't mean he can not now. It doesn't mean he forgot and it doesn't mean he was stripped of it.

It means he hasn't used it. That's all, and until a writer says(like they did with Superman) Thor's powers have been stripped, then we have no reason whatsoever to believe them gone.

Realize this: Thor from the 60's and 70's are not a different character from the Thor that we know now, they are all the same canonically. Marvel has never said that old time comics where in another dimensions, in fact, they deny it.

The only power Thor has ever had taken away was his ability to time travel, and that was done by Odin. Odin never said anything about a force field.

Stop avoiding facts because your a Lobo fan. Hell, I'm a massive Lobo fan, more so than Thor which I only moderately like. Lobo is great, but he's lose this fight.

What don't you get about a feat being a "outlier"?
What don't you get about a feat "rarely repeated again relative to the character's overall established career" ?

This is plain english. Why can't you understand it?
These are the rules here. You can't make up your own because the ones here don't make sense or are illogical. You must either follow them or create your own forum in which you can state your own rules.

And by the way, I hate Lobo (with a passion). Thus this has nothing to do with being a fanboy to him. I'm just tired of people pulling crazy powers out of character's asses and saying that it is the rules.

Thor's used shields multiple times. There's nothing that so much as hints that he can't use it.

Originally posted by Accel
Thor's used shields multiple times. There's nothing that so much as hints that he can't use it.

Q
F
T

Thor won't be killing Lobo, but you don't have to kill someone to beat them....

Thor wins 9/10

Thor wins. He can beat him for good but he can keep him down.

And yes he has shields. I refuse to listen to you after you said Spidey beats Namor 10/10.

Originally posted by Accel
Thor's used shields multiple times. There's nothing that so much as hints that he can't use it.

Thor used a shield rarely in his career and last used it before we were born. So by definition:

Since it was "rarely repeated again relative to the character's overall established career" then it is SmvFL.

Originally posted by Juntai
Lobo's immune to magic.
Not immune to an ass whooping.

Originally posted by h1a8
Thor used a shield rarely in his career and last used it before we were born. So by definition:

Since it was "rarely repeated again relative to the character's overall established career" then it is SmvFL.

Do you even understand the SMvsFL rule?

h1, I have come to understand your point more and I apologize the harsh word.

You make a point, but I just simply disagree.

Although, full powered Lobo would eat Thor alive. Lobo went from being a creature of destruction to being destruction's poster boy. No longer a tough dude but an actual unkillable, abstract engine of chaos. He's awesome.

Originally posted by h1a8
I agree. Yes it does
But using the necessary means to win doesn't have anything to do with using a power that one should not have according to the rules. These are two entirely different concepts. For example, Thor can use the godblast over and over if he wishes as a necessary means to win in this forum. Thats because that power has been established throughout his career and it is in his official bios from marvel hq. Also, Thor shooting absolute penetrating bullets out of his eyes would still be a necessary means to win a fight but it is not allowed for the simple reason of SmvFL.

If you don't agree then explain this

SmvFL is a feat that "is not repeated or is rarely repeated again relative to the character's overall established career, as well as the character's opponents' established showings. In statistical terms, it is an outlier."

If you take that definition literally and as the letter of the LAW then there is no way for Thor to have a force shield.

loathe though i am to admit it, I think you'd have to round that up as classic thor who used a shield as in most recent years he hasn't... and then the fight would be about current vs. classic...

I'd say classic has shown his ability to use a shield... but not current... like i would say Current surfer is a badass... but in his early years.. kinda wimpy when he was depowered...

Current Thor is RKT, however Thor before that powerup is the same Thor as classic as Marvel never had a crisis.

You can make the argument that he isn't likely to use that tactic but not that he can't.

Thor FTW

Originally posted by Silent Master
Current Thor is RKT, however Thor before that powerup is the same Thor as classic as Marvel never had a crisis.

You can make the argument that he isn't likely to use that tactic but not that he can't.

really, the "original" thor used to be donald blake.. and had restrictions placed upon his powers.. that was taken away... his powers were given to other characters... like thunderstrike etc... You can't compare the two.

And "classic Hulk's" punches have been shown start a galaxy/universe...

lift up billions of tons...
run at super speeds...

Classic Namor's been shown to lift up huge battleships weighing weight more than 100tons... but hes classified as a lot weaker..

juggernaut used to have a shield too... what happened to that...



Personally while there's marvels upgrades... i think they have downgrades too...

We were shown when he stopped being Donald Blake just like we were shown his being bound to Jake Olsen, we were also shown when Eric took over for him, we were shown BRB lifting Mjolnir and getting Thor's powers etc.

Like I said, you can make the argument that he probably won't use that tactic but not that he doesn't have the ability.

Eric Masterson and Beta Ray Bill have used force fields before????

I have never ever seen those.. jeez

Where did I say they had?

Let me ask. Since Eric Masterson took over has thor, has there once been an instance where Thor used his shield?

Don't know off hand, what does it matter?

I'm saying Thor was depowered. Which is why he doesn't do it anymore..

Magneto got weaker over time... he isn't messing with the entire earth's magnetic pull anymore...

When did he lose that power?

He just hasn't been doing things on that scale lately...

Juggernaut for a while had a forcefield.. suddenly he didn't... then he got depowered by cyttorak.. but noone even remembered about the forcefield the entire point leading to even when he got depowered...

I'm saying that since there can be power ups why can't characters get depowered.

and magneto got older.. and his powers waned over time.
Quasar in his comics could create constructs that in the past could how back dozens of ships, gods, thor, thanos.s.... etc... with ease...
but in annihilation he gets smacked around like he isn't a powerhouse...

There is a difference between writers having differing opinons on power levels/abilities and characters getting a power up/down.

Originally posted by rotiart
really, the "original" thor used to be donald blake.. and had restrictions placed upon his powers.. that was taken away... his powers were given to other characters... like thunderstrike etc... You can't compare the two.

And "classic Hulk's" punches have been shown start a galaxy/universe...

lift up billions of tons...
run at super speeds...

Classic Namor's been shown to lift up huge battleships weighing weight more than 100tons... but hes classified as a lot weaker..

juggernaut used to have a shield too... what happened to that...



Personally while there's marvels upgrades... i think they have downgrades too... Agreed, many characters are no longer the power level they used to be. Hulk and Thor are two of them. Marvel never had a Crisis, but there came a time when more serious writers started popping up and basically reinventing the character. Thor has the power to beat Lobo, but just the same, I think Lobo can take a couple. His immunity to magic takes away a large arsenal of Thor's commonly used powers. Thor 6-7/10

Originally posted by Juntai
Agreed, many characters are no longer the power level they used to be. Hulk and Thor are two of them. Marvel never had a Crisis, but there came a time when more serious writers started popping up and basically reinventing the character. Thor has the power to beat Lobo, but just the same, I think Lobo can take a couple. His immunity to magic takes away a large arsenal of Thor's commonly used powers. Thor 6-7/10
Co-signed, with one exception, I'd give Thor 6-8/10...

Originally posted by Juntai
Agreed, many characters are no longer the power level they used to be. Hulk and Thor are two of them. Marvel never had a Crisis, but there came a time when more serious writers started popping up and basically reinventing the character. Thor has the power to beat Lobo, but just the same, I think Lobo can take a couple. His immunity to magic takes away a large arsenal of Thor's commonly used powers. Thor 6-7/10

Why would you just assume that a character has lost power unless specifically stated by the writers?