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He deserves a chance at Liz,.. I mean seriously if you just saw your dad for the first time in years wouldn't you want to be with him before he goes to the depths of the ocean???

They will eventually be together. But they wont end up together.

YES THEY WILL BE TOGHTER!!!

sure they will!!! of course!!! its so clear!!

no i think they will stay together and stay that way i mean their perfect together

No sarcasim!!

no sarcasm got it!!

Lol, you guys could say that if you want. If you've seen most of this forum, it's filled with FACTS not just opinions. There are opinions that are backed up by FACTS AND THEORIES.

Maybe you should try that and some one might take you seriously.

giggle... this is interesting. its been a while since we have had serious w/l shippers hanging around here.

Turbo, I'd love it if you had some arguments for the pairing! then we could debate. yay!

*runs*
Okay,.. lets see,.. They knew each other since they were kids,.. they had their first kiss toghether,. and if she goes with Jack she'll be hunted down like a pirate, so Jack won't want that and will let her go her own way....

ok all i can say is that will had his chance and now its GONE! SHE CAN SAY GOODBYE TO HIM NOW! SO LONG BUDDY! NICE TRY PAL! IT WAS WORTH A SHOT! SORRY BUT ITS ALL OUT THE WINDOW! MAYBE NEXT TIME!... i htink you get the point...

Yeah they knew eachother since they were kids. THey are more used to eachother-they feel just comfortable with eachother. NOt in love.

no i don't,.. I'm very stubborn

yes you do....i know you do..you just wont admit it...

YAY someone to debate with!!! hooray! okay... down to business...

well technically, Will is also an outlaw now. Will and Elizabeth both basically have the death penalty in port Royal

so Jack would actually be the more stable choice, considering he is a more experienced pirate, has a ship, and has uncanny luck for getting out of scrapes.

first kiss or best kiss? i think i'd go with best kiss.

any more arguments?

id definatley go with best kiss even tho a first kiss is more special to someone and thats probably what she is stuck on...she doenst want to leave soemthing she usefd to htink was special...but now that she has someitng even better i think she should move on to that

Originally posted by Chiki Mina
Yeah they knew eachother since they were kids. THey are more used to eachother-they feel just comfortable with eachother. NOt in love. Not true,.. I REALLY liked this guy at my school and we awere friends FOREVER,.. till he left! cry

Knowing some one from childhood doesn't mean you would love them more than some one you just meet. It all depends on the person. I don't think Will could actually handle Elizabeth's pirate side when it comes out. And believe me, it'll come out sooner or later. The point is, you see Will drag Elizabeth back to Port Royal where she has distinctly put a negative outlook on. He put her in a corset, which she has said she dispises time and time again.

He does all this and he doesn't let her pirate side out. He doesn't even know she has a pirate side. He can't connect with her, and Jack can.

There are thousands of reasons why they should be together. I'll post again with my other post from awhile back. I've heard that it could sum up my Will isn't good for Elizabeth point pretty good.

you do have a point S&S but I don't think that Will would make her uncofortable,.... he's actually a pushover if you ask me!

That's the point. He's a pushover, she needs some one who's alittle rougher and tougher like Jack.

Here
----------
Honestly, the compass.

What is the whole point of the compass? It points to what you want in the WORLD, and it pointed to Jack more than once while resting in Elizabeth's hands. Not everything Elizabeth does is for Will, though most of the things Will does is for Elizabeth.

He needs to get a hobby. Lol.

Elizabeth isn't just a woman. She isnt' just a puzzle piece that's only purpose in life is to fit into the picture of a man. She's a human being, she's selfish, she's disloyal, she's dishonest and coniving. Decietful and cunning, witty and brave.

She's a pirate.

Will is an honest man, he doesn't lie or cheat or kill or steal. He's a hard worker and he doesn't much like the wind in his face, whipping his hair. He wants a normal life, to settle in a town and raise a family, he wants a wife. To make Lizzie a wife, the woman whom bares him his children.

He's not a pirate.

There's a difference between his blood and his actions. He may have a pirate father, a man whom has sailed the seas and seen all there is to see, but that doesn't mean he will be that man as well.

He's a different man and a different person. His blood may have something to do in his life, but in this case, the only purpose it serves is running through his viens.

Will treats Elizabeth like a porcline doll, I've said this millions of times, he only wants to shine her up and let the world see her in his little cupboard. What do we see when in the begining of DMC? A poor, disheveled Lizzie wearing another one of those tight corsets, and rain soakes the wedding dress as she sits there alone.

Elizabeth could fight with Jack, cut him, burn him, stab him but he will always fight back. If she told Will to shut up and find another woman, what would he do? He'd think she wants him gone and just put his tail between his legs and scamper off before he bursts into tears. But Jack would stay there, and he'd question her, fight with her and make her love him again.

See the difference?

Two people like this can't work out. Sure opposites attract, but when the woman in the relationship wears the pants...really...would that work?

No.

I have no doubt that Will would do anything for Elizabeth, but I don't think Elizabeth is so one dimentional that all she has in her life is the priority to look after her 'man'. Cause we already know she's not one of those corset wearing, prim and proper ladies stuck in their drawing rooms all day. Right?

So why would the pirate at heart give up her freedom for a man she's doubting loving? Guilt is the only reason I see.

So yes, I believe her and Will might end up together in AWE, but purley because of guilt.

Guilt.

thats why she doenst feel confortable around him because he is MANLY (lol) neough for her. she is afraid she will scare him off or somehting lol

But Liz rescueed Will from the boat.

Governor Swann: Take care of him

I think Elizabeth felt like she should watch over him. Protect him. I think she always felt that Will was the one who needed her, not the way around

And I think Will just want to feel comfortable and loved. THey both love eachother but they are not in love with eachother.

omg u scared me there for a sec. Chiki...in the middle of reading ur post i was like noooo wat has thw world come to! but then i read the last line and was relieved

w/e deserve to have some sort of closure..but its not fair that Jack has been dragged into the situation..he needs to have some sort of closure too.

Its not fair that so many people have fallen in love with J/E and then if that is ripped away? Its just not fair.there are by far more J/E fans and Jack Sparrow fans that W/E and Will turner fans

most people want this story to be Jack's story..it should all end on Jack no matter what, not Will Turner..if they want this trilogy to end on something meaningful an something memorable....end it on the money of the movie.

... and to ake my dramatic exit!!
BOOM!! FLASHES!!!*smoke appears I diappear!!*
You guys all have a point,.. but I think we are all missing the main reason,..
WHY did she kiss Jack?

Originally posted by Turbo-charged
... and to ake my dramatic exit!!
BOOM!! FLASHES!!!*smoke appears I diappear!!*
You guys all have a point,.. but I think we are all missing the main reason,..
WHY did she kiss Jack?

according to Ted and Terry on the directors commentary for DMC

"to slake her lust and drown her guilt"

cuz she WAN)TED to because she had feelings and she didnt know wehat they menat but i think now she realizes it was LOVE!

We've had many threads on this topic, too many to count. But I would die if I tried to sum all those days of posts, pages of theories in one post.

I can still try though.

Some one said that T&T had mentioned that Elizabeth 'slakes her lust and drowns her guilt'. Interesting word choice...Hmmm

Anyways, she wanted a taste. And I bet you anything, she was scared of Jack, of her feelings for him. Plus she's going back for him, so there's no point in saying she ended up with Will in DMC, cause they're so emotionally disbanded that I don't think they could patch up.

I would seriously die if T&T tried to make EW work. It can't, not after all this chemistry and all these hints of J/E. And they've taken the EW destruction so far that they can't go back.

Both Lizzie and Will are hurt, I don't think any amount of time would undo that.

Originally posted by Swann&Sparrow
We've had many threads on this topic, too many to count. But I would die if I tried to sum all those days of posts, pages of theories in one post.

I can still try though.

Some one said that T&T had mentioned that Elizabeth 'slakes her lust and drowns her guilt'. Interesting word choice...Hmmm

Anyways, she wanted a taste. And I bet you anything, she was scared of Jack, of her feelings for him. Plus she's going back for him, so there's no point in saying she ended up with Will in DMC, cause they're so emotionally disbanded that I don't think they could patch up.

I would seriously die if T&T tried to make EW work. It can't, not after all this chemistry and all these hints of J/E. And they've taken the EW destruction so far that they can't go back.

Both Lizzie and Will are hurt, I don't think any amount of time would undo that.

What hints?? Or are we going into that wole "overanalysing thing again??"

no one can over analyse a movie..mise en scene helps create theme..T&T know this because they had to study it in order to even get to where they are today..

they know how much detail needs to go into a movie to help boost its meaning..

We do NOT ovewr analyze anything in the forum! we just have MANY DEEP thoughts! thats all lol

more like "Depp thoughts"

SAME thing! ...duh....

johnny depp sex of the 7 seas

when I analyse I usually aply it to narrative structure and typical things we see in movies..in film studied I was taught how to spot the meaning and disect the crap

nuh uh!!

YUH HUH!

yuh huh..Will is the eunuch of the 7 seas ..although Disney seem to desperately be trying to make him cool in AWE..

they should seriously just give up on that already..W/E = NOT HOT

NUH UH!!!!!!

(too CJL)

Originally posted by LovelyOne
yuh huh..Will is the eunuch of the 7 seas ..although Disney seem to desperately be trying to make him cool in AWE..

they should seriously just give up on that already..W/E = NOT HOT


yuppp! totally! agreed! perfectly said! HAH in ur face T-C!!!! :P hehehe

seriously a movie only gets to 1 billion when the audience is loving something about it..the only new thing was J/E...its the newest aspect

methinks disney realise they have dug themselves into a hole here..possibly just a LITTLE too late

Trust me hun, no one here "over anilizes".

Everyone says that cause they can't see the things that we see. Some of us miss things that others see, it's the way things are. We've proven time and time againt that writers use hints and symbolisms that are not seen to some people in the audience.

Seriously, the only thing I see is under aniziling, mostly from EW shippers, but some are J/E shippers too. But believe me, this is not over anilizing.

*shrugs* what ever!

They do need to give W/E a decent send off though..they have to close that..because I dont think Orlando is returning to a 4th.

So you lose. And we win.

That's it!

The war is done. I love a debate, but this was alittle lame so....yea.

Could you even try to back EW up, cause it's sad how awful their defence.

Swann&Sparrow said



Thats right. We dont over annalize. Now what I think your doing diddly is under-annalize

EXACTLY! i agree...there is no such thing as over analyzing just under analyzing...you vcnat ever get enough analyzing..analyzing analyzing analyzing

omg! i was on another POTC fan site and my friend has the deads men chest and he was watching the comentary and this is what it said:

And during the scene were gibbs is recruting men in tortuga and Jack is using his compass they said:
"In this scene jack relaize that he wants elizabeth but he dosen't want to want Elizabeth"

Yay *claps* so we know for sure that Jack loves elizabeth lol



Jack and Elizabeth Sparrow= <3 fo life!!!!!

AAHHHHHH!!!!! EEEEEEK!!!!!C IM SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO HHHHHHHHAAAAAAAPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPYYY
YYYYYYYYYYY!!!!!! i dont think you veen realize how happy that has made me lol

we all knew it and now its been confirmed lol YAY!!!!!!!

I agree with Turbo-Charged...Will deserves a chance with Elizabeth...


And I'm pretty sure he's going to get his chance. So don't worry, Turbo, there's at least one other person on this forum who agrees with you.

sadly only one person lol

i would love to stay and debate but im not feeling good....take care everyone!

KEEP THE FAITH!! xoxo

not to be mean or anything but maybe liz and will will be totgther in the beginning and middle but i think in the end liz will be with Jack

also everytime will goes to save liz he and Jack work TOGETHER to-get-her! both getting liz lol maybe liz will become a loner! lol

Noooo, I think W/E will be together.

hey i like the TO-GET-HER=TOGETHER!!!! that was a good observation...lol!!!

thx!

NO W/E!!!!

I DON'T CARE HOW MANY TIMES I HAVE TO SAY IT BUT J/L WILL END UP TOGETHER!!! GOSH


sorry for yellin but i had to let go *angelic face*

I agree w/ surreal44 w/L will end up together I agree w/ you too turbo

ok but one question just one im not goin to yell i promise:

why should w/l be together and give a hint they will be together?

we proved from day 1 why j/l should be together and we have 100's of facts to back us up but do you?

yea i guess to be honest w/l is cute i mean yea they love each other but is it real love or love.
im not trying to be confusing but what i mean by that is yes they love each other but it's more of a friendship comfort love

to make even more sense i havea story to go with it.
Robert is this guy who used to be married to a girl named debi. They divocrced and debi married another man,. robert loved debi so much he tells her and calles her everyday to tell her that he is still madly in love with her. Robert married another women named debbie *what a coincidence lol* anyways they aren't madly in love with each other but they love each other more for comfort and friendship just to be with someone. This is a true story
anyways that is the kind of love will and elizabeth have. i dont mean the divorced love i mean the robert and the second debbie lol. love for comfort and friendship. they grew up with each other and maybe at one time fell in love but it's more of a friendship bond

j/l have true love The love where you dont have to agree with each other the love where you are not afraid to say what you want the love that hits you across the face and makes you say "oh sh*t i think im falling in love!" Jack has fallen in love with elizabeth and liz with jack it just takes time to show it because of their lack of moral compass..(sorry i dont have a true story for this lol all you need to do is watch shreck becuz fiona and shreck had true love and they both were like jack and liz arguing and fighting but look how they end up! also in shreck 2 fiona loved shreck true self and ogre which is like liz loves jack true self a pirate!)

no w/L love is comfortable yes, but with jack its kinda more of an impulse isnt that more like lust than love? with will shes more free to be herself without the pressure

lol!!!

i think u got it a little backwards well sorta. to will she is a lady a governers daughter a lady who wears hard to breath corsets and goes to fancy parties. she obviosly doesn't want that! if you watch both movies again you dont really see her make a huge conversaton with will she obviosly doesn't tell him anything that she really feels. then u go to jack obviosly she speaks her mind she can be whatever she wants with him and he is fine he knows her true self will doesn't hes not going to accept that she is a pirate he hates pirates except his father of course. she has never really said anything from her heart to will except "i love you and he's a piratse and I would have you already if it weren't for these bars" but the truthfully we dont se any other true conversations. Now Jack she tells him whatever and is not afraid to keep it to herself which if u truly love someoen u would tell them everything! as everybody says before her corsets are her prison and will keeps bringing her back with jack she's all free and is happy. In AWE she will ditch her boyish ways but she doesn't have a choice becuz she is put into a silk dress by sao feng. i could go on forvere but my hand hurts from typing too much lol.

ya but most of the stuff she tells jack is mostly out of disgust

or is it disgust. unfortunately and fortunately i have the kids book of deads men chest and also i read on a fan site someone was translating the older version it talked about how she was amused at jacks proposal and she was smiling in her head on other commenst he said i can't really remeber and is too lazy to go look but she is amused at jack but her actions just dont show it and we may think she taunting him with her sarcatic flirts but in the books she feels different not disgusted more amused

no its not...she is saying things in a flirtatious way...

i think this question is pretty simple.

its a hollywood film.

hot vs. not hot.

now who do you think would make sense?

well sarcastic isn't the right word i was looking for i meant was yea flirtatious works i can't think of a better way to describe it but flirtatious is good i mean by that is she knows jacks wants her idk about love but she knows he wants her and she flirts with him

HOT!!!

anyone else watch lost? anyone else freaking out? anyone else tired of media ruling their stress level? lol

welcome Sparrobethroxmy! cant wait to hear your opinions on everything!

yeah i wtach lost but now watching right now...what happens?!!?

well i still think elizibeth is disgusted in a taunting way in the MOVIE

i dont iunderstand how u could think that...

I think that because I want will to be with her and you want her to be w/ jack

Actually, hot does not always go with hot in a movie. Not only that, but who we think is 'hot' is not always in agreement...


Such as, nearly everyone on this board thinks that Jack and Elizabeth should be together, and the main argument out of everything is that they are HOT together.


I didn't see it that way at all. I saw something entirely different. Granted, while I was not a huge part of the 'billion' mark (also, another strange defense of J/E), I went and saw the movie 14 times...and not one of those times was I thinking about Captain Jack and Elizabeth Swann's hot kiss.


I went and saw it so I could see Norrington. And he wasn't even in that much of the film. *cries*


Will and Elizabeth also took up a lot of my thoughts, and I was amazed at how often they would put everything and anyone on the line for the other person. So yeah...interesting how we can see the same movie and come up with totally different ways of interperating what we see.

however..the other 1 billion saw it as hot..

we are all free what feel and i agree w/ what you said

Originally posted by LovelyOne
however..the other 1 billion saw it as hot..

lol...

along with the critics and movie award people.

ya but probably another 2 billion saw it as not hot

Thx!

well i have to retort to that crazychic becuz most of the people saw the movie twice like well say for example me! i could probably tell u they saw it again becuz it was hot i know i did and some poeple saw it even more times and if they are will/liz fans i dont really think they would like the movie so much becuz of the surprise kiss no not the surprise kissed becuz i was not surprising! it was the sexy kiss!!!!!!! also half of the 2 billion thought it was not hot becuz they aren't POTC fans not becuz it was j/l my neighbor watched it w/o even watching the first and he didn't like it much even though i tried to tell him differenet so...

HA!!! most poeple saw it has hot and POTC 1 ws never close to this much and that is a W.l ending then pirates 2 has a j/l kiss and it makes bilions!!!

Originally posted by crazychic
ya but probably another 2 billion saw it as not hot
ummm...cant be right because it didnt get to 2 billion

------------------------------------

this is just an open rant for me:

I think Disney have realized they opened a can of worms with DMC..how very silly of them to even consider pairing the lead male up with the lead female for an entire movie, have them kiss and appear to be heading somewhere more serious and expect the mass audience to accept AWE being Will's ending and a W/E ending.

Also J/E has been nominated for the people's choice awards..dont ever remember a W/E ending or a "Jack leaving on his own" ending, doing that or getting to 1 billion.

people have entire websites dedicated to J/E and their relationship..the fans of that relationship are FAR more passionate and are of a much greater number than than the W/E fans..I think they will be making a large mistake by ending this as W/E..and there not even being a HINT of a J/E possibility

J/E is what made many/most people love the franchise the majority of them loved it in the first place because of Jack..IMO they wont want him to lose out in the long run..our hero has got to WIN in some way or many shall be pissed.

W/E just cant capture an audience that much..it was not THEM who made PotC 1 a smash hit. It was Jack Sparrow...movie 2, we see Jack Sparrow as a lead love interest and its even MORE of a smash hit...

Lovelyone is right J/E is very popular. I remember reading this post over at a Johnny Depp board that I use to visit about J/E was like whoa I never thought of that! I never thought Jack and Elizabeth would fit together then I started looking around for more J/E sites and found Swans and Sparrows and was hooked on them ever since. They make the perfect couple. Disney is siting on a gold mine with these too. Everyone knows it!

you speak my mind Lovely but frankly I'm glad we have some WE shippers here that don't get obnoxiouse ...I love HEALTHY debates and you guys are actually making sense but lets also keep in mind that Jack/Elizabeth got nominated for people's choice awards(best coupling on screen) this year...so obviousely they are considered a very good couple whilst WE didn't get nominated for COTBP OR DMC

Sorry. What I'm saying is not trying to sound intimidating..right nowIMO this is a W/E ending..I'm just not happy about it lol

yea I agree with you on that..actually I think it will be WE BUT I don't think they'll ACTUALLY end up together in the technical form of it I just think it will be WE themed but....that doesn't mean I can't believe JE to be the better couple

i heard something. you guys can make of it what you will. i have no way to confirm it.

"Jack realizes something about himself that stems from what happened in DMC. With the help of Elizabeth and his father, he is able to overcome this struggle. It is at this moment that Elizabeth realizes where her heart truly lies."

seriously they may be doing a reverse star wars where Hans cant possibly get Leia because of something..or I think that was their original plan

Originally posted by katelovespirate
i heard something. you guys can make of it what you will. i have no way to confirm it.

"Jack realizes something about himself that stems from what happened in DMC. With the help of Elizabeth and his father, he is able to overcome this struggle. It is at this moment that Elizabeth realizes where her heart truly lies."

thats interesting isnt it Kate..along wth that thing in movie 3 with jack and the pearl

Is this more recent??^^

where did you read that?
but again that could go either way...it may mean that Liz was his lesson never to do that again..

i didnt read it, someone sent it to me. i have no clue if it is recent or not.

and yes, it could go either way. AHHHHHHH.

hang on a sec..doesn't teague only come in right at the end or something?

Its interesting because they say the closure is in DMC..we see liz choose Will. Do the right thing for Will because she loves him..and then she does the right thing for Jack because she is on the verge of loving him. I think Jack needs her and she wants to help him because she does have feelings for him. Will spots this and decideds to go and get Jack for her sake.

Or so it seems lol....but we have to imagine that we dont know anything about AWE

I think we may see a slight repeat of this in AWE..but on a more serious and larger scale...

This same debate is getting boring lol all I have to say is the waffle won over the fruit cake. Liz prefers to add whip creme on her waffle than fruit cake.

The Fruit cake is the whole feast that couldnt satisfy liz apetite.

That one specific waffle seems to be the only one that can satisfy liz

______________________________

POTC Never ended with Will/Liz. Liz had Jack in her mind "...No, he's a pirate"

And Jack singing the song liz taught him. Will/Liz ended up physically but not emtionally together.

The same with DMC. Liz mind was on a certain pirate. While Will was thinking on how he was gonna free hes father.

Dammit let me put this as simple as possible. BILLION MARK!!!!!!!!!

Geesh its that simple

Chiki. I do think Liz still loves Will a great deal she wont abandon him for Jack. Those two really do need a form of closure. I think she oves him more that Jack when she decideds to chain him up. She knows she has feelings for Jack but she sacrifices them for Will..BUT thats not the end of it.

Originally posted by LovelyOne
Chiki. I do think Liz still loves Will a great deal she wont abandon him for Jack. Those two really do need a form of closure.

But so does Jack and Elizabeth. They wont leave that open ended I'm sure.

NO I've been trying to say a million times Will/Liz do love eachother but they are not in love.

AWE needs a closure for will/liz. Because that relationship has to go somewhere and by the looks of it its not going to good.

If my last post didnt make sense Im sorry Im just a little groggy.

Yes She Does Still love him.Know what realy interesting is?The Thing THat When The Trhid Movie Comes out We all gone be suprized at the thing that much stuff that we thought woud be right will be wrong.I hope there will be cool Sword Fights(I love Those)And some cool see fights(Thats Logical that there will be some but i realy want them to be cool)

movie 3 will heavily be based around Wil/Liz patching things up IMO..but I still dont think thats the end of it..

if you watch the last few scenes of DMC...it explains a lot about what we may see in AWE.they said if there was no sequel DMC would have all th closure needed..they would be happy about it going out like that.


Elizabeth will probably choose Will because she does love him and I would even say she was in love with him.

Chiki we cant really say she's not when we dont know whats gonna happen in AWE..its mere guesswork when we say that..just opinions and such

Now she decideds to give up Jack for many reasons but she does choose Will over Jack IMO but whats not so simple is the fact she still very much desires him and she does want him...

but once she has done the thing for Will she realises just how much she cant hack it without Jack being there. She realises she has feelings for him. I wouldnt call it love but there is potential..as terry said she's crying because she's just killed a man who she may well love..and it reveals someting that she cant live with..she's killed a "good man" someone who wants her and cares for her, he needs her and she's killed him and she cant live with the thought of killing a good man because she might just love him she wants him back.

something interesting happens to Jack early in movie 3..VERY interesting that may relate to that ending of DMC where Elizabeth refuses to let that good man stay dead and so by the time movie 2 ends. Elizabeth has made a second choice..she wants Jack. She wants to bring that man back

"Jack realizes something about himself that stems from what happened in DMC. With the help of Elizabeth and his father, he is able to overcome this struggle. It is at this moment that Elizabeth realizes where her heart truly lies."

I find that interesting because Teague doesnt come in until the very end apparently..after Will supposedly stabs the heart

drool sword fights

Oh and I forgot to mention. Will basically sees that Jack is her main priority and he allows her to bring that man back because of that.

(we have to imagine we dont know anything about AWE yet)

I Agree Lovelyone. It's makes perfect sense!

I need some cyber coffee

they also said the choice wont be Elizabeth's alone when she finds out where her heart truly lies..from the ending of DMC..what i gathered is Will/Liz made a silent choice that she should go and get Jack back and prevent Jack the "good man" from remaining dead and its not just to make herself feel better..she cares for him on a deep level..feelings have developed for him.


Will only decides to do this for her IMO...he wants to save his dad but he spots what Liz is feeling. If we didn't know about what happens in AWE to start with..the audience are left thinking she's accepted her feelings for jack and wants him in her life again, she wants to get the honest man back because she may well love him. And will visibly puts aside his own sense of personal gain and appears to want to help her do what she needs to do.

yeah it does doesn't it and I really do think she decided to stick with will by chaining jack up BUT she also did it cuz she knew it was something HE needed as well...but Lovely's write it's not the end of it. and about the closure at the end of dead man's chest...depends on when you define to be the "END" of the movie, if the end is when jack is no longer in the scene than yes liz chose to be with will and give jack up for will BUT if you count the time AFTER jack left..liz decides that there might just be something there..and that she needs him so she decides to bring him back and she chooses him and that's that

Originally posted by LovelyOne
movie 3 will heavily be based around Wil/Liz patching things up IMO..but I still dont think thats the end of it..

if you watch the last few scenes of DMC...it explains a lot about what we may see in AWE.they said if there was no sequel DMC would have all th closure needed..they would be happy about it going out like that.


Elizabeth will probably choose Will because she does love him and I would even say she was in love with him.

Chiki we cant really say she's not when we dont know whats gonna happen in AWE..its mere guesswork when we say that..just opinions and such

Now she decideds to give up Jack for many reasons but she does choose Will over Jack IMO but whats not so simple is the fact she still very much desires him and she does want him...

but once she has done the thing for Will she realises just how much she cant hack it without Jack being there. She realises she has feelings for him. I wouldnt call it love but there is potential..as terry said she's crying because she's just killed a man who she may well love..and it reveals someting that she cant live with..she's killed a "good man" someone who wants her and cares for her, he needs her and she's killed him and she cant live with the thought of killing a good man because she might just love him she wants him back.

something interesting happens to Jack early in movie 3..VERY interesting that may relate to that ending of DMC where Elizabeth refuses to let that good man stay dead and so by the time movie 2 ends. Elizabeth has made a second choice..she wants Jack. She wants to bring that man back

"Jack realizes something about himself that stems from what happened in DMC. With the help of Elizabeth and his father, he is able to overcome this struggle. It is at this moment that Elizabeth realizes where her heart truly lies."

I find that interesting because Teague doesnt come in until the very end apparently..after Will supposedly stabs the heart

Well of course Lovely!!! I know its based on our opinions. I cant really read the writers mind or the producer. How dumb do you think I'am lol

I dot think you are dumb lol

Tee_pirategirl

I would say the closure comes from where we see the characters end it emotionally..physically means nothing..Terry actually says its the emotional place where they end that is the most important thing here..Liz is not with Jack but she's clearly aching to be with him...to save him and not for personal gain..she "may indeed love him" according to Terry.

Do you think AWE is going to end emotionally?

pirates 1 and 2 ended up with Will/Liz but physically. Emotionally Liz was on jacks mind and jack was on her mind.

Yup that's how I saw it too, just what you ladies had said. It all makes very perfect sense. Editing to say that I think AWE will end emotionally.

T&T say its the choices that matter in the movie. I think we may see her make a choice in one way or another when it comes to Jack..or we will see something that suggests she has made that choice. They may use a slightly different way to express it in AWE. they cant make it exactly the same..

I think I know what Jack may realize about himself..Elizbaeth will realize it too..and if she does indeed love him and care about him...she wont be able to find it in her heart to leave him like that IMO

I cant imagine the audience exactly LOVING her character if she leaves him like that..because its actually her fault it happened.

And its obviously something he cant overcome on his own..he needs to be helped as that thing says...and if this is the moment where she truly realizes where her heart lies..then it means its with Jack.

This sorta happened in DMC at the end in a way..

Whilst Liz is so concentrated on Will...I think she's missing something rather major when it comes to Jack. It may take her a while to realize..or it may hit her like a TON of bricks. Unless they want her character to be forever known as a heartless ***** I think they will end it J/E

I think I know what you mean....I think lol

Im not sure if shes too concentrated too much on Will because she feels a need to protect him. Since she was the one who rescued him from the boat so I figured ever since shes been keeping an eye out for him. And remember that she took the medallion to protect Will, so nobody will think that he's a pirate.

Im not sure if Liz reasons to be with Will is because that she feels that she owes it to him since Will loves her.

I mean that kinda...but Chiki I really do think she loves Will and its not only to protect..but it doesnt mean she doesnt have feelings for Jack...she may just be pushing them down whilst Will is around...I dont think she loves Jack yet but She seems to get a huge "dont know what you got till its gone" moment when ever she realizes something major about him...then she seems to show how much she wants him to be back because "she may indeed love him" and she realizes she's killed a good man..."already the world seems a bit less bright" - Gibbs..this whole emphasis on Jack being a good man is very important IMO..people need that man in their world, Elizabeth needs that man in her world.

and for some reason..now that spoiler on podcast makes about 1 million times more sense because that thing doesnt happen to Will/Liz at all in the story.

This whole thing I'm getting at is very hard to explain but it makes sense in my head lol.

Originally posted by LovelyOne
I mean that kinda...but Chiki I really do think she loves Will and its not only to protect..but it doesnt mean she doesnt have feelings for Jack...she may just be pushing them down whilst Will is around...I dont think she loves Jack yet but She seems to get a huge "dont know what you got till its gone" moment when ever she realizes something major about him...then she seems to show how much she wants him to be back because "she may indeed love him" and she realizes she's killed a good man..."already the world seems a bit less bright" - Gibbs..this whole emphasis on Jack being a good man is very important IMO..people need that man in their world, Elizabeth needs that man in her world.

Yes of course I do believe she loves him I have said this...again

Elizabeth is a human being. If she stood by him all this time is because she does love him. She wouldnt be too cruel to just let the man all over her just because she feels pitty.

When I said that she stood by him because she thinks that she owes to will, I was talking about the ending in DMC. She made a choice, her choise was to be with Will, but you can read on her that thats not the exact choice that she wants.

Someone said she cried because she killed a human being...well I didnt see her crying when barbossa's crew killed Norington's men. And I didnt seee her crying when the kraken took some of the crew away.

Its just...IMO she made that choice because of shes Will's fiance. And for a woman to leave a "good man" for a pirate probably wouldnt be to good for society to see.

So she thought it was just only a temptation, just kiss him, chain him up, and go back to Will.

But it kind of all back fired.

DMC's ending is very significant to the end of AWE IMO..its gonna pretty much be based around the same emotions coming from Elizabeth


She's not crying there because she killed a man..she's crying because she's killed Jack. Chiki I agree with you she's not only showing guilt for killing a man..right here she's showing us just how loyal her heart to Jack really is IMO and this is the last thing we get from her in the movie..meaning this is where she emotionaly ended in DMC..they said if they wanted to end the story here they would be comfortable with it because ithe closure is there already...IMO in AWE its going to be the same..but probably right at the very end.

I thought Tia was the only one who could bring back Jack

lol you dont get what I'm hinting at

I cant exactly say it because its spoilers kinda..

I'm talking about the ending of AWE..

I honestly don't think all the emotions Liz showed towards Jack before and as she chained him up are important at all. Whats important is what we see afterward with her character.

this whole thing what Terry said on wordplay about Liz crying because she's killed someone that she may indeed love and it reveals a part of herself she cant live with..IMO this is NOT a part of her that is like a pirate and leaving people to die..its part of her that leaves people she might LOVE to die she cant live with herself if she does that.

This may be echoed later on with her and Jack.

because something happens to Jack in AWE because of what she did to him on th pearl and she may realize it rather late in AWE because she is so concentrated on Will.

OOOOOOO *slaps hand on forhead*

Ok Lovely say it " Mina, you dumb ass" lol

Yes that yeah I agree. So Liz could bring back Jack as in waking up his feelings again?

..kinda..there's something I'm just dying to say but i cant.

Am gonna stop now lol

where is that darn spoiler on Podcast..I wanna read it again..



something tells me we shouldn't take this spoiler at face value..or as literally as it comes across.




Or I may be totaly off the mark here

cuz that spoiler kinda suggests that she helps him then goes off with Will possibly

but I can say that podcast spoliler doesnt mean Will/Liz IMO

those two "spoilers" may be indicating something similar when it comes to Jack what Elizabeth's last choice in AWE will be.^^^

----------------

The Flying Dutchman is actually the name of the captain and not the ship believe it or not.

http://www.occultopedia.com/f/flying_dutchman.htm

not saying this website ties in with Jack or Will in anyway..just posting it to give a bit of history on the legend.

Thanks Lovely Im sorry If I posted late.



I dont have exact prrof myself, but I know its not really a Liz/Will ending. Jacks sturggle was to accept that he wants elilzabeth. I think his father and Elizabeth will help him overcome his feelings. Then she probably plans to go with Will....but theres something missing in there.

Its very incomplete: Helps Jack, then runs with Will. I think there are some things missing in here.

no IMO..he realises something about himself and so does Elizabeth and teague...

I'm wondering if one of the main reasons Jack hates his honest self is because of his father and something teague did to him in the past, something that hurt him..It happens again with Elizabeth and that may be the "last straw"...

Will Lizzie and Teague reconcile with him? Save him?

It amazes me that Jack tries to seperate himself from his emotions so much..even before he met Elizabeth..

does his cold hearted behaviour in the draft script remind you of a certain someone??

Will the audience WANT Jack to become like this? and stay like this?

what would teague have done in the past?

possibly abandoned him

*deep breath* ouch that would hurt you know i can believe that too not too........ farfetched

I feel that by only getting love from Liz and his father can he truly be saved from this horrible, bitter kind of DAVY JONES like behaviour he seems to be expressing in that leaked draft script..He's behaving heartless just like Davy J.

I think the second Elizabeth realizes this, we may see where her heart truly lies...I dont think the audience will want Jack to be heartless and leave heartless..and I dont think people will ever forgive Elizabeth iif she left Jack like that because she is the one who made him behave like this in AWE it seems.


Or we may get something that suggests she realised it and we didnt see that realisation..but something suggests that she did and she chose Jack.

So you think that-if possible im just takling if its possible, that Teague abandonned Jack. So, that affected Jack alot as a kid. Maybe he trusted his father and looked up to him, till that day when he vannished. So maybe Jack doesnt want to show his true honesty about himself because he's afraid taht he might get hurt.

I think Teague is the reason Jack is the way he is in movie 1/2..afraid to show his honest side..and elizabeth may be what pushes that over the edge after what she did to Jack in DMC..so much so that he decideds to abandon the most human part of his nature...doesnt that remind you of Davy Jones?? he cut his friggin heart out in order to not feel hurt and emotons because people he loves abandon him..we see Jack in the Leaked script starting to behave bitter, cold and heartless.

are the audience REALLY gonna want Jack to end up like that??
Is LIZ going to be so heartless and LEAVE him feeling like that? or does she actually really care for him deep down and this is what makes her truly realise it?

and what worries me is that Jack "apparently" leaves the movie looking for immortality..

Is jack going to become just like Davy Jones in nature?

Is Elizabeth going to become just like Calypso in her nature?

I bloody well dont think so..

Its funny it seems as if Will ends up the captain but Jack ends up the one actually mirroring Davy Jones..

WEll he's been "abandonned" quiet a few times just for being honest. Jack cannot help it, he is truely a good man, he's a pirate in terms of breaking the rules, but he has too much kindness in his heart to be a TRUE pirate like Barbossa.

When you see a person so struggled like that, you have to start from his childhood, what traumatized him to be like that.

Originally posted by LovelyOne
I think I know what Jack may realize about himself..Elizbaeth will realize it too..and if she does indeed love him and care about him...she wont be able to find it in her heart to leave him like that IMO

I cant imagine the audience exactly LOVING her character if she leaves him like that..because its actually her fault it happened.

And its obviously something he cant overcome on his own..he needs to be helped as that thing says...and if this is the moment where she truly realizes where her heart lies..then it means its with Jack.

This sorta happened in DMC at the end in a way..


OMG OMG OMG OMG OMG i'M IN SHOCK IF IT IS WHAT i'M THINKING shocking
Lovely I think I figured it out whats is going to happen To Jack. Ok I remember reading somewhere that you said that Jack is going to loose something whiles he is in purgatory right? Correct me if I'm wrong. Something that he is going to need help to overcome what happened to him. But I am not sure if I should posted here. But i'm pretty sure that it is what I'm thinking. And Is Kind of sadweep

i think liz loves will more i mean HELOOOOOOOOOOOO her and jacks kiss in the movie was merely a distraction so she could handcuff him their and leave him to die if thats what you call love then we all have really diferent prospectives on this matter

please post it!

yes and so was the almost kiss afterward right crazychick??..that was just to distract him???..wait a sec..he was ALREADY chained to that mast when she did that wasn't he??

how to you explain the fact she almost kissed him again as a mere distraction to save Will?


and Terry has basically said that in Tia's hut she's crying because she realises she may have just killed someone she loves...and she cant live with that fact..

AWE she's supposed to save him from something that stemmed from DMC??

Possibly Jack becoming like Davy J BECAUSE OF HER..Yeah right as if Liz doesnt care about him enough to just leave him behaving like that and feeling as if no one loves him. She would go down as the biggest ***** in cinema history if she just left Jack Sparrow feeling as if he has no one to love him...its HER fault he's behaving like that..

Do you want Jack Sparrow to leave this franchise not allowing love in because he hates his honest side?

Originally posted by a-k-a-amber
please post it!

I don't know if I should. I don't want to say anything I don't dare to. But It's kind of obvious, Jack is going to loose something while he is in purgatory, or was it PERHAPS at the end of DMC?. And it was because of her fault. What can possibly he had lost??? Give it some though I promise you you will figure it out.

MISTY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

hug

ummmm i will think but maybe you can PM me? ummmmmm his i think i may have something.... maybe but im not sure i mean surly he lost an eency weency bit of pride or maybe a lot of pride but i'll have to think some more......*thinks*

Originally posted by Chiki Mina
MISTY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

hug what does that mean?

Originally posted by a-k-a-amber
what does that mean?

It mens that misty is here and I missed her....lol

oh ok.... never mind lol

*still thinking*

Originally posted by Chiki Mina
MISTY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

hug

A hug back to you Mina . Anyways I missed you guys. I haven't post for a few days.I had to go for a two day retraining thing from my job. It sucked big time. I didn't had time for anything, just boring stupid meetings. But I'm back and I'm glad.

She leaned into the kiss because she was being selfish and wanted more. But then again, she did pull back, didn't she? She didn't kiss him again. Interesting.





No, the quote says that Liz is crying because she had killed someone she "may indeed love". Not that she may have killed someone she loves.


He leaves it open to debate on if she actually loves Jack or not.


My main question to all of you is, "Why is it ok for Elizabeth to leave Will, but to not leave Jack?"


If any of you can give a good answer that does not involve Will dying or becoming an ~EVIL~ monster, I'd be just utterly thrilled.


Jack searching for immortality would not be strange. It's hinted at in the CotBP deleted scenes, after all. It'd be kind of nice to see him going off on another adventure, seeking out a way to live forever.

lovely yes it was a distraction,and he wasnt tied up yet, and i never said she didnt like him i just meant she doesnt love him as much as will. I would feel guilty too if i was her i mean she practically killed him

Originally posted by Surreal_44
She leaned into the kiss because she was being selfish and wanted more. But then again, she did pull back, didn't she? She didn't kiss him again. Interesting.





No, the quote says that Liz is crying because she had killed someone she "may indeed love". Not that she may have killed someone she loves.


He leaves it open to debate on if she actually loves Jack or not.


My main question to all of you is, "Why is it ok for Elizabeth to leave Will, but to not leave Jack?"


If any of you can give a good answer that does not involve Will dying or becoming an ~EVIL~ monster, I'd be just utterly thrilled.


Jack searching for immortality would not be strange. It's hinted at in the CotBP deleted scenes, after all. It'd be kind of nice to see him going off on another adventure, seeking out a way to live forever.

My main answer is that Will would probably let her go with Jack because Elizabeth is the very reason our most favorite part of Jack is well and truly dead...I doubt very much elizabeth would like the thought of that..hanging over her..it may be the thing where she realizes she loves him..its an eccho of DMC Will would love her enough to allow her to follow her true heart.

remember "he's a good man"

She just killed a good man..not only that..one that she thinks she might love..and so she wants to go and get him back

personally surreal i dont think liz should leave will so therefor i am unnaplicable to awnser that question

Also surreal Terry said in the commentary for DMC..she has to admit that she feels something but then she pulls away..

Originally posted by crazychic
personally surreal i dont think liz should leave will so therefor i am unnaplicable to awnser that question

what even if will sees that Jack clearly needs her more than he does and Elizabeth obviously would love him enough to try and save him? Even if Will allowed it?

EDIT - removed
I'll just say I want Will/Liz to patch things up and get good decent closure. I want them to realize their love for eachother and get married...

but I dont want Jack to end this heartbroken and behaving like Davy Jones..IMO Liz and Will may actually agree to not let this happen. Liz may realize she loves Jack too much to allow him to go down this path and Will may let her follow her heart. Because he cant actually be with her he has his father as a main priority among other things...

We practically saw this in DMC^^ and it was a pretty closed ending..If AWE didnt exist..THAT would be the vibe I got from the ending.

I personally dont think this will be an ending where it ends tragically for either character..it should all tie up so that both ships can be happy.

Why would Will care if Jack isn't whole?


So I don't see Will letting Elizabeth go just to be nice to the semi-crazy pirate who has nearly gotten him killed several times.


And I don't think Elizabeth helping Jack has anything to do with deep love for him. She cares about Jack and wants to help him, so she does.


Nothing more to it.


And that doesn't answer my question....


Why is it ok if Elizabeth breaks Will's heart, but it's not ok to break Jack's?

first of all liz should stay with will *gosh* how many times do i have to type it, second even if she did leave will i dont think jack is capable to love or stay faithful to her if he could love

Maybe Jack needs some love from Daddy. And Elizabeth is the one who convinces Teague that he needs to show his son some love.


That's really kind of disgusting.


Of course, I think the idea that Jack needs Elizabeth to help him gain back his love and all that stuff is kind of gross too, and really cheesy sounding. I hope that they've come up with something better than that.


And I can tell you why I don't care about Jack....It's because I don't care about Jack. I mean, I do...I want him to have some sort of happily ever after, but I don't like the idea of him being so needy. It goes against everything that his character is.

Ok what ever...I just dont want either ship to be unhappy by the end of this..I cant believe both of you dont care who gets hurt in the process..aint that typical of a W/E shipper.

IMO its not against what his character is..he is the way he is because he is needy and he's covering it up..He's rather tragic actually...and so we see him mirror Davy Jones

Apparently we see Davy and his story and its rather sad. people will notice Jack is starting to mirror this and will probably want Elizabeth to be with him IMO

well yeah it is and i do care about who gets hurt i just hope its jack instead of will

and Surreal

Teague is barley in it..I dont think it would have the same emotional climax in it to the audience it if he was the one who made Jack feel loved..

Its because of Elizabeth Jack is starting to mirror DJ..I bet if you saw Will behave like that because of no Liz you would be begging for Liz to just return to him..