Click HERE to see this thread with all of the graphics, features, and links.

Who wins?

-Man of Miracles Bio-

Man of Miracles:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/c/cc/MoM.JPG


V.S.


Thanos /w/ THOTU:
http://img90.imageshack.us/img90/1825/teb9.th.jpg

Don't know enough about either. Tho MOM seems to be more omnicient than Thanos and Thanos does fall to the mechanizations of Superior omnicient beings.

MOM = Image comics TOAA

They sound about equal.

MOM is much greater than Thanos With THOU if he is indeed the supreme being of Image.

Why? THOTU has the power of the supreme being of Marvel.

Thanos 10/10, MOM hasnt really done anything impressive.

Originally posted by thedude1948
Thanos 10/10, MOM hasnt really done anything impressive.

Besides create everything? Including image's god and satan?

Originally posted by King Kandy
Why? THOTU has the power of the supreme being of Marvel.

THOU Is not the supreme power of marvel. it couldn't get to death. trust me, TOAA can get to whom ever he wants, when ever he wants. he can obliterate any thing and everything in every omniverse/multiverse/universe and put it all back together again. Thanos did not wield this kind of power. And he certainly isn't as smart as MOM if MOM is supreme in Image.

So could Thanos with THOUT. But he'd actualy have to GO to those places before he destroyed them.

Originally posted by Board Walker
Besides create everything? Including image's god and satan? Image's "God" and "Satan" only rule over earth, they arent that powerful...., Celestials created almost everything look at what Thanos did to one of them.

MoM is the sum of all in his reality, Thanos with Hotu was not.
HOTU seemed more a piece of Marvel's gods power, than the entire real deal.
As far as I can tell, everything seemed to be universal in the end story, and defying Tribunal seems to be a major conflict to this and seems to be the largest support to it as a multiversal threat. Things like Tribunal losing there, and in Last Planet Standing and his appearance in the Korvac what if, lead many to believe he works in duplicates.
Thanos kept speaking as if everything was in the boundaries of a universe.
And according to the Marvel handbook of alternate universes, The End took place in Universe 4321.

MOM (AKA MOTHER) wins....

He/She created everything that is Image. There is no greater power than herself.

FYI...God also ruled over The Garden of Eden, not just Earth. God also rules Heaven, and Satan rules Hell.

There are four realms at stake here, not just one.

There power is not limitted to one world, and one planet in Image is not as cheap and inconsequential as one world in Marvel or DC.

*Angela took on a galactic threat and defeated it in Curse of Spawn, which IS CANON since it applies to Spawn issues 74-75.



Like the cheesiness that spawned from DragonBall Z, Marvel and DC made planets to be nothing more than giant rocks that explode on que.


In Image, in Spawn's universe, The Earth is not just a big rock....it has a life of its own. GREENWORLD exists within the Earth, the natural unifying spirit of every planet. In Spawn, The Earth is a living powerful organism, not just a big ball of disposable dust.


That is how Spawn was able to utilize Earth as imprisonment against the dark god Urizen. The forces of Earth itself (the elements) helped Spawn and Angela defeat Urizen.


Keep that in mind.



Thanos's powers with THOTU are indeed great, but his maturity and essential being is no match for MOM. In Image, there are no relics that can bring you to her power.

Originally posted by Juntai
As far as I can tell, everything seemed to be universal in the end story, and defying Tribunal seems to be a major conflict to this and seems to be the largest support to it as a multiversal threat.

Negative,

it was the MULTI-VERSE that houses the 616 Universe.



The Omniversal Architecture

When Warlock first exited the Multi-verse, he entered a place called the Cosmic Vortex.
http://img272.imageshack.us/img272/3198/adamgoesbtwnuniverses15yh.th.jpg


In it, an INFINITE number of MULTI-VERSES are spiralling upward, while below lies Oblivion, (the ultimate Abstract in terms of everlasting), swallowing Multi-verses that collapse, are nullified, have a weakened Anchor (like Atleza) ect...
http://img272.imageshack.us/img272/7376/adamgoesbtwnuniverses26zw.th.jpg


These are MULTI-VERSES!


When I realized that Thanos DID in fact, Absorb MORE than just a UNIVERSE, that he actually absorbed ALL he could (which is the MULTI-VERSE)
http://img103.imageshack.us/img103/4876/teb9kg7.th.jpg


He absorbs Eternity and Infinity and there is still Space and star stuff behind
http://img375.imageshack.us/img375/741/t2gw1oa6.th.jpg
This is not a designed attack, he's saying it himself "it's Out of Control"

Like a raging drunk, who's not selective in a brawl, anything in the way goes, and with that KIND of Power, that means everything goes. (like it did)



Here it continues,



"For IF this BAND (LT, Eternity/Infinity) Could Defy Me...might not OTHERS* be equally Foolish?"
http://img245.imageshack.us/img245/4746/t6bi7.th.jpg
"Could I ALLOW ANY to question my divine Authority?"


"NO....So I CONTINUED to Absorb ALL that MIGHT Threaten my Reign...Until....
http://img381.imageshack.us/img381/2830/t7fq0.th.jpg


See...He's absorbing MORE SPACE now, where is this SPACE coming from if he already absorbed ALL of Space and Time?

I'll answer that,


It has to be coming from the Multi-verse, there is no other way to look at it.
*(That's WHO these OTHERS are that MIGHT be equally foolish, the rest of Space, in other words, the MULTI-VERSE)


WHO else COULD question his authority, except anyone left in the MULTI-VERSE.


CAN'T be the Universe, he just ABSORBED the Universe (Eternity/Infinity remember)




Now your saying to yourself, fine, that conclusively despicts Thanos absorbing the Multi-verse.

But Mr M showed scans of the Cosmic Vortex, where an INFINITE number of Multi-verses are,

How could Thanos have absorbed ALL he could, when he ONLY absorbed ONE Multi-verse?

Now we go back to the OMNIVERSAL structure:




The OMNI-VERSE and the rest of the Multi-verses rest with in the Cosmic Vortex.

See those little Purple Balls, thats where Atleza is (the Cosmic Anchor of the "616" Multi-verse)...

and every little Purple Ball is the Domain of an Anchor of a Multi-verse ...

Each Domain is Outside the Multiverse...Untouched by Space or Time....

The much bigger Blue Balls represent EACH a Multi-verse, and the SUM of the Blue Balls is the Omni-verse.
http://img336.imageshack.us/img336/8021/unilook17qj.th.jpg
http://img280.imageshack.us/img280/9715/unilook21qc.th.jpg

Anything Outside the Blue Balls is Untouched by Space & Time,
which Multi-Eternity/Infinity encompass.

See how the Blue Balls (Multi-verses) are separate from each other, and how the little Purple Balls (the Anchor's domain) are separated from the Blue Balls.

This is why Atleza, Gamora and Warlock were untouched, they were there, in A little Purple Ball, (the Anchors domain, Outside it's respective Multi-verse)

This is why Thanos could not absorb more, he absorbed everything within that Blue Ball (a Multi-verse) and evidently, he could not reach any furthur
http://img165.imageshack.us/img165/991/allhecouldum7.th.jpg
"Nothing Remained"

Remember he was "Out of Control"

He kept on absorbing till there was nothing left for him to absorb (literally), HAD he been able to absorb everything Outside his Multi-verse, it would have been no problem with TOAA's power,

But Thanos was NOT able to do it, meaning that's as FAR as TOAA permitted his power to be used, absorption of a Multi-verse and Remaking that same Multi-verse, even though being the most powerful being in the Omni-verse.


Originally posted by Juntai
Things like Tribunal losing there, and in Last Planet Standing and his appearance in the Korvac what if, lead many to believe he works in duplicates.

LPS is a NON-CANON FANTASY.

KORVAC?

Was protected by Death, when LT issued his Ultimate Judgement back in 1982, a Super Nova,

since then, LT has created TWO Universes, shunted a FULL IG attack, recreated the ABSTRACTS and Powered down and Powered up the Infinity Gems.



And there is NO PROOF in Marvel Comics that suggest LT has "duplicates".. NONE.

Originally posted by Juntai
Thanos kept speaking as if everything was in the boundaries of a universe.


Just because Reality is titled in Marvel "Universe" instead of Multi-verse or "Eternity" instead of Multi-Eternity, doesn't necessarily mean it's referring to ONE Universe.


Examples:

Roma she inherited the reins of the Multi-verse
http://img169.imageshack.us/img169/5075/romasithg4.th.jpg


Roma Oversees the 616 Multi-verse personally,
http://img163.imageshack.us/img163/1483/roma1fh6.th.jpg


Roma says Understanding the Universe is hard enough, but she tends to Eternity (the Multi-verse) YET, she refers to him as Eternity, NOT Multi-Eternity

http://img163.imageshack.us/img163/32/roma2cd9.th.jpg
"Within it, ALL that ever was, ever is or ever will be exists"





Here is another instance, I would post more, but if yall don't get it, then whatever.



This arc was dedicated to the MULTI-VERSE and yet it's called the UNIVERSE at times and just ETERNITY, instead of MULTI-ETERNITY


Here it's called the UNIVERSE:


"Molding the UNIVERSE to suit our dreams"

http://img107.imageshack.us/img107/3232/et1tu4.th.jpg


NOW MULTI-VERSE:

"Comes down to conquering the Universe, well, MULTI-VERSE in my case"

http://img107.imageshack.us/img107/9375/et3df0.th.jpg



MULTI-VERSE again:

"the single most powerful Entity in ALL the MULTI-VERSE"

http://img117.imageshack.us/img117/472/et4ze3.th.jpg



NOW ETERNITY, but implying it's the MULTI-VERSE:

"ENTIRE UNIVERSES being born"
http://img131.imageshack.us/img131/5189/et5kh1.th.jpg
"Detonate ETERNITY'S Heart, Re-Birthing everything in ALL the UNIVERSES"



AFTER Dormammu, has succeeded in becoming the New CREATOR of the MULTI-VERSE


"Did he think I would not feel him ENTERING my UNIVERSE"

http://img164.imageshack.us/img164/6356/et6tt5.th.jpg



Now the question is, how do we define what they are referring to when we see these contradictory titles?


Simply by following the entire STORY LINE.


Jim Starlin's whole purpose behind the END series was to out do the Infinity Gauntlet arc,

Now your going to tell me, ol' Jimmy introduced the POWER of TOAA to mess with a single Universe, when Magus and his INCOMPLETE IG was controlling TWO UNIVERSES? (Also WRITTEN by Starlin by the way)


Come on people.


Originally posted by Juntai
And according to the Marvel handbook of alternate universes, The End took place in Universe 4321.

Interesting,


Yet during the END series Thanos is RECALLING his history with the Cosmic Cube and the Infinity Gauntlet,

If that was not Thanos of 616, HOW the heck is he talking about his conquest of the Cosmic Cube and the Infinity Gauntlet, which took place in 616?

http://img245.imageshack.us/img245/6470/t2hj2.th.jpg


You should know better than to step to the plate with bio non-sense.

TOAA and Presence are the two creator beings of the biggest fictional universes.
Image, darkhorse is next to nothing compared to them ...
Both are omnipotent, battle would go on forever.

Originally posted by Thanos_THOTU
TOAA and Presence are the two creator beings of the biggest fictional universes.
Image, darkhorse is next to nothing compared to them ...
Both are omnipotent, battle would go on forever.

Please Explain how Image is nothing compared to Marvel and DC ?


In Image a world has its own strength and its own life, while in Marvel and DC a world is just a giant disposable rock that explodes on fkn que.

In Image, the Universe is so complex, diverse, vast and beyond human knowledge, so much that even comic book logic cannot explain it.

In Marvel and DC Universes are as disposable as a cancelled comic book.

Originally posted by Juntai
MoM is the sum of all in his reality

Corrections:


1) HER Reality. God and Satan call her "mother"

2) She is the CREATOR of the Spawn reality, not its summation. She exists independent from her universe.

Originally posted by Board Walker
MOM = Image comics TOAA

what does TOAA mean and THOTU

Originally posted by air beardey
what does TOAA mean and THOTU

TOAA - The One Above All


THOTU - Is actually the Heart of the Infinite

but Thanos nicknamed it, The Heart of the Universe

MM, it was my belief that Thanos COULD have exited his Purple sphere, but like you said, you don't do that in a out-of-control energy field.

It would have taken time for him to exit, and by the time he'd gulped down the multiverse, he'd come to his senses, so why would he want to?

Originally posted by King Kandy
MM, it was my belief that Thanos COULD have exited his Purple sphere, but like you said, you don't do that in a out-of-control energy field.

It would have taken time for him to exit, and by the time he'd gulped down the multiverse, he'd come to his senses, so why would he want to?

Makes sense.


But really it boils down to the fact that,

all that needed to be fixed was that one Multi-verse, so in essence Thanos only needed to erase and recreate that one Multi-verse.

This was TOAA's plan all along, use Thanos to fix a problem.

Why did he use Thanos, well,

because TOAA never gets involved personally and I'm sure never will.

Instead of blinking everything right, perhaps he enjoys watching his creations do for themselves.

Well, TOAA may have intended only for him to effect the multiverse, and engraved it in his purpose and destiny, as part of his master plan. It's well within his power to do so.

But Thanos had his energy, and were it not outside of what was destined to happen it was well within the abilities of THOTU to bring down the omniverse, if it was used in such a way.

Originally posted by King Kandy
Well, TOAA may have intended only for him to effect the multiverse, and engraved it in his purpose and destiny, as part of his master plan. It's well within his power to do so.

But Thanos had his energy, and were it not outside of what was destined to happen it was well within the abilities of THOTU to bring down the omniverse, if it was used in such a way.

Oh without a doubt.


I completely agree.

Originally posted by Mr Master
Oh without a doubt.


I completely agree.
So you're actualy limiting THOTU's power when you declare it "Multiversal" in truth, it's "Omniversal", and can tap energy of anyone who confronts it.

Originally posted by King Kandy
So you're actualy limiting THOTU's power when you declare it "Multiversal" in truth, it's "Omniversal", and can tap energy of anyone who confronts it.

Learn something about me that distinguishes us.


I only except ON PANEL evidence,


THOTI performed a Multiversal FEAT, and that's it,

in fact, Absorbing the Living Tribunal trumps that Feat.


THOTI may be Omniversal, but there is NO proof to suggest that.


Still, based on the fact that it erased LT, there is no doubt that THOTI makes you the most powerful being in Marvel below TOAA.

BUT,

only being able to OPERATE within the 616 Multi-verse, as that is all we have seen.


Whether Thanos could have stepped out or not is pure speculation, unless you have proof that he did.

Thanos Thotu no response ?

No response Juntai ? Hmm....

Originally posted by Lord Urizen
No response Juntai ? Hmm.... Why would you expect a response while I'm sleeping?
I get on the PC in the AM, standard US central time.
Now I'm just bullshitting for a minute before I leave for work, working the graveyard shift.

Originally posted by Mr Master
Just because Reality is titled in Marvel "Universe" instead of Multi-verse or "Eternity" instead of Multi-Eternity, doesn't necessarily mean it's referring to ONE Universe.


Examples:

Roma she inherited the reins of the Multi-verse
http://img169.imageshack.us/img169/5075/romasithg4.th.jpg


Roma Oversees the 616 Multi-verse personally,
http://img163.imageshack.us/img163/1483/roma1fh6.th.jpg


Roma says Understanding the Universe is hard enough, but she tends to Eternity (the Multi-verse) YET, she refers to him as Eternity, NOT Multi-Eternity

http://img163.imageshack.us/img163/32/roma2cd9.th.jpg
"Within it, ALL that ever was, ever is or ever will be exists"





Here is another instance, I would post more, but if yall don't get it, then whatever.



This arc was dedicated to the MULTI-VERSE and yet it's called the UNIVERSE at times and just ETERNITY, instead of MULTI-ETERNITY


Here it's called the UNIVERSE:


"Molding the UNIVERSE to suit our dreams"

http://img107.imageshack.us/img107/3232/et1tu4.th.jpg


NOW MULTI-VERSE:

"Comes down to conquering the Universe, well, MULTI-VERSE in my case"

http://img107.imageshack.us/img107/9375/et3df0.th.jpg



MULTI-VERSE again:

"the single most powerful Entity in ALL the MULTI-VERSE"

http://img117.imageshack.us/img117/472/et4ze3.th.jpg



NOW ETERNITY, but implying it's the MULTI-VERSE:

"ENTIRE UNIVERSES being born"
http://img131.imageshack.us/img131/5189/et5kh1.th.jpg
"Detonate ETERNITY'S Heart, Re-Birthing everything in ALL the UNIVERSES"



AFTER Dormammu, has succeeded in becoming the New CREATOR of the MULTI-VERSE


"Did he think I would not feel him ENTERING my UNIVERSE"

http://img164.imageshack.us/img164/6356/et6tt5.th.jpg



Now the question is, how do we define what they are referring to when we see these contradictory titles?


Simply by following the entire STORY LINE.


Jim Starlin's whole purpose behind the END series was to out do the Infinity Gauntlet arc,

Now your going to tell me, ol' Jimmy introduced the POWER of TOAA to mess with a single Universe, when Magus and his INCOMPLETE IG was controlling TWO UNIVERSES? (Also WRITTEN by Starlin by the way)


Come on people.




Interesting,


Yet during the END series Thanos is RECALLING his history with the Cosmic Cube and the Infinity Gauntlet,

If that was not Thanos of 616, HOW the heck is he talking about his conquest of the Cosmic Cube and the Infinity Gauntlet, which took place in 616?

http://img245.imageshack.us/img245/6470/t2hj2.th.jpg


You should know better than to step to the plate with bio non-sense. Sweet, but none of those scans aren't of the series in question. Thanos said Universe, I take it as Universe. Kind of like the time you made me prove the other "Earths" in those scans were actual universes instead of just Earths coppied. The handbook also complies with such and even gives us a label for the Universe.
Also- there's no identifying whether the Thanos of that reality had also recieved the Infinity Gauntlet at one point. Marvel seems to think so.

Originally posted by Lord Urizen
Corrections:


1) HER Reality. God and Satan call her "mother"

2) She is the CREATOR of the Spawn reality, not its summation. She exists independent from her universe. Corrected. However the result is the same.

Originally posted by Mr Master
Learn something about me that distinguishes us.


I only except ON PANEL evidence,


THOTI performed a Multiversal FEAT, and that's it,

in fact, Absorbing the Living Tribunal trumps that Feat.


THOTI may be Omniversal, but there is NO proof to suggest that.


Still, based on the fact that it erased LT, there is no doubt that THOTI makes you the most powerful being in Marvel below TOAA.

BUT,

only being able to OPERATE within the 616 Multi-verse, as that is all we have seen.


Whether Thanos could have stepped out or not is pure speculation, unless you have proof that he did.
That's perposterous. that's like saying that because Thanos with IG never turned anyone into cheese, that it was beyond his ability to do so.

Obviously not, as any excersize of logic will tell you.

Originally posted by Juntai
Sweet, but none of those scans aren't of the series in question. Thanos said Universe, I take it as Universe.

Guess you missed it, here it is AGIAN:


The Omniversal Architecture

When Warlock first exited the Multi-verse, he entered a place called the Cosmic Vortex.
http://img272.imageshack.us/img272/3198/adamgoesbtwnuniverses15yh.th.jpg


In it, an INFINITE number of MULTI-VERSES are spiralling upward, while below lies Oblivion, (the ultimate Abstract in terms of everlasting), swallowing Multi-verses that collapse, are nullified, have a weakened Anchor (like Atleza) ect...
http://img272.imageshack.us/img272/7376/adamgoesbtwnuniverses26zw.th.jpg


These are MULTI-VERSES!


When I realized that Thanos DID in fact, Absorb MORE than just a UNIVERSE, that he actually absorbed ALL he could (which is the MULTI-VERSE)
http://img103.imageshack.us/img103/4876/teb9kg7.th.jpg


He absorbs Eternity and Infinity and there is still Space and star stuff behind
http://img375.imageshack.us/img375/741/t2gw1oa6.th.jpg
This is not a designed attack, he's saying it himself "it's Out of Control"

Like a raging drunk, who's not selective in a brawl, anything in the way goes, and with that KIND of Power, that means everything goes. (like it did)



Here it continues,



"For IF this BAND (LT, Eternity/Infinity) Could Defy Me...might not OTHERS* be equally Foolish?"
http://img245.imageshack.us/img245/4746/t6bi7.th.jpg
"Could I ALLOW ANY to question my divine Authority?"


"NO....So I CONTINUED to Absorb ALL that MIGHT Threaten my Reign...Until....
http://img381.imageshack.us/img381/2830/t7fq0.th.jpg


See...He's absorbing MORE SPACE now, where is this SPACE coming from if he already absorbed ALL of Space and Time?

I'll answer that,


It has to be coming from the Multi-verse, there is no other way to look at it.
*(That's WHO these OTHERS are that MIGHT be equally foolish, the rest of Space, in other words, the MULTI-VERSE)


WHO else COULD question his authority, except anyone left in the MULTI-VERSE.


CAN'T be the Universe, he just ABSORBED the Universe (Eternity/Infinity remember)




Now your saying to yourself, fine, that conclusively despicts Thanos absorbing the Multi-verse.

But Mr M showed scans of the Cosmic Vortex, where an INFINITE number of Multi-verses are,

How could Thanos have absorbed ALL he could, when he ONLY absorbed ONE Multi-verse?

Now we go back to the OMNIVERSAL structure:




The OMNI-VERSE and the rest of the Multi-verses rest with in the Cosmic Vortex.

See those little Purple Balls, thats where Atleza is (the Cosmic Anchor of the "616" Multi-verse)...

and every little Purple Ball is the Domain of an Anchor of a Multi-verse ...

Each Domain is Outside the Multiverse...Untouched by Space or Time....

The much bigger Blue Balls represent EACH a Multi-verse, and the SUM of the Blue Balls is the Omni-verse.
http://img336.imageshack.us/img336/8021/unilook17qj.th.jpg
http://img280.imageshack.us/img280/9715/unilook21qc.th.jpg

Anything Outside the Blue Balls is Untouched by Space & Time,
which Multi-Eternity/Infinity encompass.

See how the Blue Balls (Multi-verses) are separate from each other, and how the little Purple Balls (the Anchor's domain) are separated from the Blue Balls.

This is why Atleza, Gamora and Warlock were untouched, they were there, in A little Purple Ball, (the Anchors domain, Outside it's respective Multi-verse)

This why Thanos could not absorb more, he absorbed everything within that Blue Ball (a Multi-verse) and evidently, he could not reach any furthur
http://img165.imageshack.us/img165/991/allhecouldum7.th.jpg
"Nothing Remained"

Remember he was "Out of Control"

He kept on absorbing till there was nothing left for him to absorb (literally), HAD he been able to absorb everything Outside his Multi-verse, it would have been no problem with TOAA's power,

But Thanos was NOT able to do it, meaning that's as FAR as TOAA permitted his power to be used, absorption of a Multi-verse and Remaking that same Multi-verse, even though being the most powerful being in the Omni-verse.



Originally posted by Juntai
Kind of like the time you made me prove the other "Earths" in those scans were actual universes instead of just Earths coppied.

I can't believe you just went desperate on me, bringing up a debate that has ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to do with this or with Marvel for that fact.

You didn't prove anything, until you brought in scans that said Universe, at first you were making claims without sound proof, then you displayed proof and it was excepted.

So don't bring up little moments of triumph like your the man.


Originally posted by Juntai
The handbook also complies with such and even gives us a label for the Universe.

Mentioning a handbook, you might aswell not post anything.


Originally posted by Juntai
Also- there's no identifying whether the Thanos of that reality had also recieved the Infinity Gauntlet at one point.

And now you'll begin to make stuff up to give your argument strength.




Originally posted by Juntai
Marvel seems to think so.

Even worse, a blatant lie.

"And now you'll begin to make stuff up to give your argument strength."

Not that I agree with him by any stretch...

But it could have been a divergent timeline, that seperated after he got the infinity gauntlet.

Originally posted by Juntai
Corrected. However the result is the same.


Sorta.....not quite though.


The Universe is her child the way God and Satan are. To harm the Universe in no way, shape, or form harms MOM...

Destroying the Universe would harm Eternity, but not MOM.....while Eternity in Marvel is the embodyment of Universe 616, MoM is the creator and she is beyond simply being the summation of Spawn's universe.

MoM doesnt have enough on panel feats or abilities for me to judge so I cant call it.

Thanos.

Originally posted by Lord Urizen
Sorta.....not quite though.


The Universe is her child the way God and Satan are. To harm the Universe in no way, shape, or form harms MOM...

Destroying the Universe would harm Eternity, but not MOM.....while Eternity in Marvel is the embodyment of Universe 616, MoM is the creator and she is beyond simply being the summation of Spawn's universe. Right, but everything is a direct result of that character. The sum of all.

And I said "he" in the original post, because it's "man of miracles", I didn't really get time to identify that before I had to run off to work.

Like pre-retcon Beyonder then?
He was the sum of everything inside and outside the Marvel Universe.

Originally posted by Mr Master
Guess you missed it, here it is AGIAN:


The Omniversal Architecture

When Warlock first exited the Multi-verse, he entered a place called the Cosmic Vortex.
http://img272.imageshack.us/img272/3198/adamgoesbtwnuniverses15yh.th.jpg


In it, an INFINITE number of MULTI-VERSES are spiralling upward, while below lies Oblivion, (the ultimate Abstract in terms of everlasting), swallowing Multi-verses that collapse, are nullified, have a weakened Anchor (like Atleza) ect...
http://img272.imageshack.us/img272/7376/adamgoesbtwnuniverses26zw.th.jpg


These are MULTI-VERSES!


When I realized that Thanos DID in fact, Absorb MORE than just a UNIVERSE, that he actually absorbed ALL he could (which is the MULTI-VERSE)
http://img103.imageshack.us/img103/4876/teb9kg7.th.jpg


He absorbs Eternity and Infinity and there is still Space and star stuff behind
http://img375.imageshack.us/img375/741/t2gw1oa6.th.jpg
This is not a designed attack, he's saying it himself "it's Out of Control"

Like a raging drunk, who's not selective in a brawl, anything in the way goes, and with that KIND of Power, that means everything goes. (like it did)



Here it continues,



"For IF this BAND (LT, Eternity/Infinity) Could Defy Me...might not OTHERS* be equally Foolish?"
http://img245.imageshack.us/img245/4746/t6bi7.th.jpg
"Could I ALLOW ANY to question my divine Authority?"


"NO....So I CONTINUED to Absorb ALL that MIGHT Threaten my Reign...Until....
http://img381.imageshack.us/img381/2830/t7fq0.th.jpg


See...He's absorbing MORE SPACE now, where is this SPACE coming from if he already absorbed ALL of Space and Time?

I'll answer that,


It has to be coming from the Multi-verse, there is no other way to look at it.
*(That's WHO these OTHERS are that MIGHT be equally foolish, the rest of Space, in other words, the MULTI-VERSE)


WHO else COULD question his authority, except anyone left in the MULTI-VERSE.


CAN'T be the Universe, he just ABSORBED the Universe (Eternity/Infinity remember)




Now your saying to yourself, fine, that conclusively despicts Thanos absorbing the Multi-verse.

But Mr M showed scans of the Cosmic Vortex, where an INFINITE number of Multi-verses are,

How could Thanos have absorbed ALL he could, when he ONLY absorbed ONE Multi-verse?

Now we go back to the OMNIVERSAL structure:




The OMNI-VERSE and the rest of the Multi-verses rest with in the Cosmic Vortex.

See those little Purple Balls, thats where Atleza is (the Cosmic Anchor of the "616" Multi-verse)...

and every little Purple Ball is the Domain of an Anchor of a Multi-verse ...

Each Domain is Outside the Multiverse...Untouched by Space or Time....

The much bigger Blue Balls represent EACH a Multi-verse, and the SUM of the Blue Balls is the Omni-verse.
http://img336.imageshack.us/img336/8021/unilook17qj.th.jpg
http://img280.imageshack.us/img280/9715/unilook21qc.th.jpg

Anything Outside the Blue Balls is Untouched by Space & Time,
which Multi-Eternity/Infinity encompass.

See how the Blue Balls (Multi-verses) are separate from each other, and how the little Purple Balls (the Anchor's domain) are separated from the Blue Balls.

This is why Atleza, Gamora and Warlock were untouched, they were there, in A little Purple Ball, (the Anchors domain, Outside it's respective Multi-verse)

This why Thanos could not absorb more, he absorbed everything within that Blue Ball (a Multi-verse) and evidently, he could not reach any furthur
http://img165.imageshack.us/img165/991/allhecouldum7.th.jpg
"Nothing Remained"

Remember he was "Out of Control"

He kept on absorbing till there was nothing left for him to absorb (literally), HAD he been able to absorb everything Outside his Multi-verse, it would have been no problem with TOAA's power,

But Thanos was NOT able to do it, meaning that's as FAR as TOAA permitted his power to be used, absorption of a Multi-verse and Remaking that same Multi-verse, even though being the most powerful being in the Omni-verse.
Better, I'll analyze them more carefully when I have time.
Thanks though, for the thuroughness you bring, I'd expect nothing less.





Desperate just because I brought a similar instance of when I had to bring more proof... just the same, I wanted more proof here... where you originally brought scans that didn't prove anything other than editorial errors in other storyarcs.


It seems to be the way our relationship goes, I show you something, you show me something.

It's been a while since I read The End, but I told my friend at work to bring it in for me again, but that'll have to wait I return his first 20 issues of the Surfer volume 3.

I mentioned the handbook offhandedly, it wasn't the base of what I was trying to accomplish. And I didn't blatantly lie, the handbooks are collected of what marvel accepts as their current canon, I just mentioned that what I remembered the story as merely coincides with that view. Nothing wrong with that. Don't mount your high horse.
It's funny though.

Admist all of that, you did agree with me on one thing.
HOTU does not = TOAA.
Only a portion of it's power.
Which is what I said when I came into the debate.

Thanks for that.

In conclusion, this seems to be a supreme being, vs a being with only a portion of such.

Originally posted by Thanos_THOTU
Like pre-retcon Beyonder then?
He was the sum of everything inside and outside the Marvel Universe. No, he just thought he was, and everyone ****ed with his head.

Originally posted by Juntai
No, he just thought he was, and everyone ****ed with his head.
... Your talking post-retcon, I meant before they retconed him.

Originally posted by Juntai
Better, I'll analyze them more carefully when I have time.
Thanks though, for the thuroughness you bring, I'd expect nothing less.

Kool.


Originally posted by Juntai
Desperate just because I brought a similar instance of when I had to bring more proof... just the same, I wanted more proof here... where you originally brought scans that didn't prove anything other than editorial errors in other storyarcs.


It seems to be the way our relationship goes, I show you something, you show me something.

My apologies,

I misuderstood the point of what you where saying.

I respect you and I believe your a true debater, I would have never said those things had I not thought you were being condescending.

My bad.


Originally posted by Juntai
It's been a while since I read The End, but I told my friend at work to bring it in for me again, but that'll have to wait I return his first 20 issues of the Surfer volume 3.

Nice,

I'll be diving into Spectre V4 now, just issue #01 had me excited.



Originally posted by Juntai
I mentioned the handbook offhandedly, it wasn't the base of what I was trying to accomplish. And I didn't blatantly lie, the handbooks are collected of what marvel accepts as their current canon, I just mentioned that what I remembered the story as merely coincides with that view. Nothing wrong with that.

I understand,

but even in the horrible job done by Marvel's "official site" concerning the Cosmics that's not mentioned.

That info you posted is from Wiki.


And suggesting based on pure speculation that the Thanos of the END (supposing it wasn't 616 Thanos) somehow got his hands on the same Cosmic Containment Unit and the same IG as Thanos 616 is outlandish and a reach that you must acknowledge.

Especially when Thanos described the EXACT SAME events that took place in 616, in Marvel, Alternate Realities are ALWAYS different from 616 in one way or another.

That's why they are labeled "Alternate"...

Originally posted by Juntai
Don't mount your high horse.
It's funny though.

Everyone has a horse around here, even when you shoot them off of it, they're dead souls continue to ride into the sunset.


Originally posted by Juntai
Admist all of that, you did agree with me on one thing.
HOTU does not = TOAA.
Only a portion of it's power.
Which is what I said when I came into the debate.

Thanks for that.

In conclusion, this seems to be a supreme being, vs a being with only a portion of such.

I completely agree with this.

But I must add, whatever that portion is, makes him the most powerful being in the Marvel Omni-verse below TOAA.

But I must add, whatever that portion is, makes him the most powerful being in the Marvel Omni-verse below TOAA.
A portion of infinity = infinity

Originally posted by Thanos_THOTU
A portion of infinity = infinity

Not exactly, or atleast not according to Marvel:


This is how Marvel, the company that creates these characters measures INFINITY

http://img165.imageshack.us/img165/8929/infipo9.th.jpg

http://img128.imageshack.us/img128/958/infi2lt7.th.jpg


"Thus are demonstrated TWO LEVELS of Infinity, there are of course, an INFINITE number MORE"

http://img128.imageshack.us/img128/1130/infi3rl5.th.jpg


Please read the scans, so we can avoid circles.

Do Image deities even have feats, or is it all just hyperbole? You rarely see actual feats for MoM, besides a few claims made by the characters - which prove nothing as far as power level. In addition, there are few cosmics besides the aforementioned demons & angels, disciples etc.... all a bunch of vague beings with feats that wouldn't be out of the grasp of a skyfather.

Have they ever been proven to even be above heralds, you know with their razzle-dazzle "hellfire" & "vengeance" and pseudo- biblical nonsense. The few scans I've seen don't prove anything - they certainly don't equate Spawn or anyone to characters like Lucifer or Michael. I just get the sense that everything we hear about them comes from the overactive imaginations of the fanboys.

Well, it seem THOTU trully destroyed Multiverse, which is also logicall, since there was nothing to absorb anymore.

Nothing suggest that MOM is more powerful than THOTU.
THOTU wouldl have no problem to destroy omniverse or all existence, if he would reach it (but TOAA limited him in range to not touch other Multiverses as Mr. Master said).
There is no way to know who is more powerful, MOM or THOTU.

Originally posted by boriquaking55
Do Image deities even have feats, or is it all just hyperbole? You rarely see actual feats for MoM, besides a few claims made by the characters - which prove nothing as far as power level. In addition, there are few cosmics besides the aforementioned demons & angels, disciples etc.... all a bunch of vague beings with feats that wouldn't be out of the grasp of a skyfather.


Image Dieties ? You mean God and Satan? Mom ?
I'll enlighten you a bit....


Here's the Image HIERARCHY:




I. So far, the most powerful character in Spawn's reality is MOM- Mother- Man of Miracles


Facts that have already been stated about her:

1) There is no greater power than her (In Image)
2) She/He created the Universe
3) She/He created God and Satan (and Urizen, and every other dietie)
4) She has INFINITE children, all equal of God and Satan, each with thier own worlds
5) She destroys planets
6) She implanted 6000 souls from Earth into Spawn's heart
7) She made God and Satan reborn as two children: Jake and Katie
8) She resurrected Spawn from total Oblivion (after Judas the Disciple killed him, Spawn did not end up in Heaven OR Hell, he was GONE for good)
9) She froze God, Satan, Spawn, and Zera in Time
10) She slowed down time so that Spawn could stop the bullet from killing Wanda, when she tried to shoot herself
11) She created the Disciples
12) She created the Garden of Eden and Earth
13) She gave Spawn the power to open up Earth to devour Urizen and keep him trapped (Greenworld gave Spawn that power over Earth, but MOM is actually the keeper of Greenworld)
14) Had appeared to mankind and Spawn as : Kali the Goddess of Death and Destruction, Keeper of Greenworld, Man of Miracles, Mother Nature, and Jesus Christ.
15) She remade Spawn into a God, to be on rival par with God and Satan






II. God / Satan



God-

1) Created Heaven
2) Created the Forgotten, including Mammon
3) Created the Seraphim, including Zera and the 3 sisters
4) Created mankind out of earth
5) Created other creatures as well
6) Created Abdiel (Curse of Spawn)
7) Gave Granny Blake her sight back
8) Took away the FREE WILL of the "faithful" from Earth
9) Remade mere human beings as angelic warriors
10) Created the Great Flood, Plagues, Four Horseman
11) As Jake, created zombies and other creatures to provoke armaggedon
12) * May have possibly helped locked up Urizen in the void the first time Urizen was let loose-

Satan-


1) Created Hell
2) Gave mankind Free Will
3) Destroyed some of God's creations
4) Created a massive Earthquake by destroying the San Andrea's fault
5) Created native demons of Hell
6) Almost executed Mammon, until Mammon begged his way out of it
7) Created the demons that eventually created Leviathon, who eventually created Malebolgia, who eventually turned Al Simmons to Spawn
8) Resurrected Thamuz from Mammon's damnation
9) * May have possibly helped lock up Urizen the first time he was loose




III. Urizen


1) Has the power to destroy the Imagination and Free Will
2) Represents the Void, can eat/nullify souls and spiritual energy in general
3) Heaven and Hell had to combine forces the FIRST TIME to defeat Urizen by imprisoning him within the Void. It is uncertain whether God and Satan had any involvement in his initial defeat
4) CANNOT DIE TO BE DESTROYED, ONLY CONTAINED
5) Emphasis on being a TRUE immortal
6) Negates souls, destroys dreams, and compassion
7) During his second coming, his presense caused everybody within 3 miles of him to go insane and kill themselves/eachother
8) Can destroy Heaven and Hell, that is why they both feared him greatly
9) Would have destroyed the rest of Earth if Spawn/Angela/ Greenworld had not stopped him
10) Destoyed hundreds of innocent people during his walk on Earth
11) Destoyed hundreds of angels and demons before his imprisonment
12) Impaled Spawn, during thier first encounter on a restaurant sign
13) Survived being attacked with Angelic lance and necroplasm
14) After his imprisonment, a shard of his being possessed a young boy, turning him into a monster before Spawn removed that shard





IV. Zera


1) God's most powerful warrior
2) Killed ALL of the Forgotten except for Mammon (because she couldn't find him)
3) Located God when he was in the incarnation of Wanda's son, Jake
4) Killed giant demons in New York City
5) Her avatar is an unstoppable beast, a manifestation of her madness and rage
6) Travels through space with ease
7) Was locked up because God deemed her too insane and powerful to roam free
8) Is leading Heaven's army against Hell on Earth
9) MOM declared Zera too powerful for Spawn to battle before she remade him into a God
10) *May have been involved in Urizen's imprisonment after his first rampage




V. Abdiel


1) Has the power to make stars go supernova
2) Possessed a sword that was capable of slaying even immortals
3) Flew through space with ease
4) Most demons feared him
5) Nearly killed Malebolgia before the mission was aborted
6) Killed Lilith, a high level demon
7) Witnessed Al Simmon's transformation into Spawn





VI. Mammon

1) Is ONE of the Forgotten - a race of angels who decided to remain neutral during Heaven and Hell's first war
2) Took over Hell during Satan's absense
3) Is 1000 times more powerful than Malebolgia
4) Erased all of Spawn's memories, including his love for Wanda
5) Predicted a young waitress' morbid future
6) Sentenced Thamuz to torture
7) Learned to utilize Hell to increase his power
8) Tricked Thea into giving him her soul
9) Tricked Nyx into giving him her power over Spawn
10) *May have been involved in Urizen's first imprisonment, but it is not certain



VII. The Forgotten


A race of angels who decided not to betray God, but not fight against the unfaithful angels either.

1) Destroyed an entire town after Spawn passed the "Tiend"
2) Are generally more powerful than Angels like Tiffany, Angela, Redeemers, any of Heaven's "processed" warriors
3) Transformed a little girl into a bull, then a snake, then a lion, then a fish, then into other objects, etc. without killing her.
4) Almost took over Heaven by killing other angels, before Zera came and slaughtered all of them quickly


VIII. Malebolgia


1) Created Necroplasm, the source of Hellspawn's powers
2) Created all Hellspawns
3) Ruler of the 8th plane of Hell
4) Slew his creator Leviathon
5) Released Urizen onto Earth by sending two demons to do the ritual which sets him free
6) Caused misery to over thousands of worlds (Curse of Spawn)
7) Turned Billy Kincaid into a hellspawn
8) Killed Angela


IX. Angela


1) nearly slaughted Malebolgia
2) hunted down the universal threat- Argus- in Curse of Spawn
3) Sent Lilith to Hell
4) Can travel at speeds faster than light
5) Has travelled throughout galaxies and dimensions at amazing speeds
6) Her lance could have erased Mammon from existance

That's great man - you didn't have to spend that much time on it


but, I must ask - what out of that whole list, is out of the reach of the HOTU?

the majority of them aren't even cosmic feats - example



why bother listing feats like this when regular Thanos can do such things. In fact, a good half of the list is within the grasp of a skyfather. None of it is mindblowing

edit: one more thing regarding spawn, the religious undertones of Spawn comics is not proof of any power - Gods, angels, Hell - those are just buzz words. What bearing do they really have?

Im not a religious person, so pardon me if I hold that view.

Ok, regarding these thread, I think we struck a point where theology may be a little needed. Sadly, THOTU can very well be all the power of TOAA in a practical sense, thinking that its not and that its somewhat limited regarding the "full power" of TOAA falls under the same assumtion that "Can God make a rock that he himself cannot lift?". Its just a plain void missinterpretation of omnipotence, I dont think we should dig much into those arguments as we stand now, as we dont have proves to suppose the true nature of Thanos's powers at that given time.

Fallacious assumptions I'm afraid.

IF the MoM is in fact the creator of Image universe, its very own omnipotent presence, then by the information we are given we must assume that its power equals that of THOTU, and then we cannot predict the result of the battle.

Thanos has been played by omnipotents before, but right now, we being beyong the omnipotence of said omnipotence can put him in a position where he is not being played. I think we hit stale mate in this thread.