The DVD commentary - The genunie one!!

Text-only Version: Click HERE to see this thread with all of the graphics, features, and links.



Alina

LovelyOne
know what..this sucks..I too feel as if we have been made a fool of. Its like they are trying to do damage control like S&S once said sad

AWE is gonna be crap IMO

I really dont want to sit through a boring love story knowing how exciting the love story could hae been in AWE if it was J/E.. .

..the love story between W/E was not what made movie 1 a success..Jack Sparrow did..

movie 2..it was Jack sparrow and what appeared to be a his love story and it was very interesting to watch..the movie did amazingly because that was a prime factor

you would think they wern't stupid enouth to go back to boring after something that seems to be so interesting to to watch..I guess they are stupid enough though..I've said it once and I'll say it again. In AWE, they chose the wrong relationship to mature..they could have made one of made AWE one of the most interesting romances to emerge on the big screen for a long tim..but they have ruined it..J/E in DMC proves to be what people find interesting to watch when it comes to a love story in a movie..W/E is not remotely interesting and it never was and never will be.

When I watched movie 1 and W/E were having their trials and stuff to overcome before they came an item?? to be honest I could give a flying shit if they ended up together or not..now when it comes to J/E..it sucked me in and I'm just hoping they will get together..

Alina
Originally posted by LovelyOne
know what..this sucks..I too feel as if we have been made a fool of. Its like they are trying to o damage control like S&S once said sad

AWE is gonna be crap IMO

I second that...I'm seriously considering NOT seeing AWE...not sure what the point should be, maybe Johnny Depp, but I'm not sure I want to see a heartbroken Capt Jack...

LovelyOne
I feel as if ive been tricked..its bizarre because how are WE the audience to know that she would have not have kissed Jack on the deck when she's clearly pushing her mouth out, eyes closed waiting for a kiss?

how are we to know that she would have pulled away and said "see"

****ing bollocks the lot of it. Basically 45 minutes of DMC..was a waste of time and actually means nothing at all to the next story..THAT is what I get from it...they just made a pointless movie..

ToddianGirl
Now I'm depressed. Oh this really stinks. AWE is gonna bomb it will bomb big time. But then again who knows it all still could come out postive come everyone don't give up it's not end. I still say we should just wait for the movie to come out and see what happens okay.

Alina
Originally posted by LovelyOne
I feel as if ive been tricked..its bizarre because how are WE the audience to know that she would have not have kissed Jack on the deck when she's clearly pushing her mouth out, eyes closed waiting for a kiss?

how are we to know that she would have pulled away and said "see"

****ing bollocks the lot of it. Basically 45 minutes of DMC..was a waste of time and actually means nothing at all to the next story..THAT is what I get from it...they just made a pointless movie..

Just me sentiments...if they wanted to show that it only was a way to create problems for WE, then they did a crap job of that...half the audience will go WTF when they see AWE...

LovelyOne
LOL exactly^^ This was supposed to create problems for W/E??well T&T...people probably don't GIVE a shit about W/E getting together now and being more mature because you have "accidentally" just created a phenomena whist trying to do so, J/E is more interesting to watch and see develop than a W/E maturing relationship will EVER be...people would/are gonna be have flocking back expecting to see more J/E action because THAT is exactly where you left the movie..you should have SHOWN a bit of W/E arguing or something and trying to resolve in DMC itself..

I'm sorry but they made a huge mistake to use Jack as the spanner...JACK is the favorite character!! who the hell is gonna settle for the boring relationship after seeing what COULD have been so much more intense and interesting?

Am I the only one here who despised the love story in movie 1..even when I watched it the first time they were so lacking in any chemistry that I honestly could give a shit if they ended up together or not by the end of it..critics said the same..you would have thought they would have taken the hint and gone for the more interesting relationship to develop (JE)..but NO..they probably saw that as a challenge to make W/E more interesting..trust me they ****ed UP because they used Jack Sparrow, one of the most interesting characters EVER on screen to do so..seriously I know this is mean..but how STUPID

Alina
Originally posted by LovelyOne
LOL exactly^^ This was supposed to create problems for W/E??well T&T...people probably don't GIVE a shit about W/E getting together now because you have "accidentally" just made a phenomena in doing so...peopel would have been flocking back to see more J/E action because THAT is exactly where you left the movie..you should have SHOWN a bit of W/E arguing or something and trying to resolve in DMC itself..

I'm sorry but they made a huge istake to use Jack as the spanner...JACK is the favorite character!! who the hell is gonna settle for the boring relationship?

Am I the only one her who despised the love story in movie 1..even when I watched it the first time they were so lacking in any chemistry that I honestly couldn't give a shit if they ended up together otr not..critics said the same..you would have thought they would have taken the hint and gone for the more interesting relationship to develop..but NO..they probably saw that as a challenge to make W/E more interesting..trust me they ****ed UP because they used Jack Sparrow to do s..seriously I know this is mean..but how STUPID

No, you're not the only one and now I despise it even more...and I HATE Will more than I thought was possible(and I used to hate him A LOT mad )and I'm not to keen on TnT either right now...

LovelyOne
but I have to admit..one or two things they said strike me..if she's "only" BOTHERED about having a PHYSICAL attraction to Jack then why in gods name is she worrying about the kind of man he is deep down..

If it was just his body she wants, why is she so interested in his mind and soul when it comes to him being with her? Also why do they say hardly ANYTHING on the last scene??

Alina
Honestly, I don't know and right now I can't see anyting positive in the commentary at all....I think, Sparrabeth in the movies, is dead to me...I stick with fanfiction from now on...

ToddianGirl
Now I know everyone is going to think that I'm crazy. But I really do feel that we should NOT give up. I we need to still have faith. Lets not let this get us down we all need to just breathe and calm down. Please lets not lose faith. I still believe in J/E I really do. I'm not going to give up not now it too way too early.

evilm0nki3
I agree.

Have faith!

LovelyOne
something intense is clearly going on in her mind in that last scene..it flies past mere guilt for killing a man and they decided not to go into depth there.........why?...

LovelyOne
I find that weird..they are willing to explain in great depth what is going on in the mind of Elizabeth when she's showing depth in other parts of the story.. ...something major is clearly going on in her head at the end and they refuse to discuss it in detail on the commentary....

ToddianGirl

LovelyOne
I actually think that curiosity scene may be very relevant to AWE and its outcome

...but what annoys me about T&T..is that they COULD have EASILY written it so Liz was starting to fall in love with Jack in DMC..we all thought it was happening ANYWAY (hence the fact there are 27 J/E suporters on this forum and 1 or 2 W/E supporters) J/E just comes across so natural as if its meant to happen...and they thought that kind of thing would be unbelievable to an audience??

well how VERY wrong they were..J/E shippers (which out number W/E shippers) actually believed that it was pretty damn possible when they came out of DMC..because J/E as a relationship makes more sense than W/E...DMC appeared to show us all this..

T&T have done a pretty crap job of trying to portray what ever the hell they are trying to portray with DMC..they made it look as if Liz was meant to be with Jack..the compass etc..then you look at the god damn ending and she looks as if she realizes she;s meant to be with Jack for ****s sake..and when you look at that and then look at everything else in the story you would think that is the relationship that would eventually emerge out of AWE.

CaptinJackLover
i just read this and now im gonna cry,...i came on this thread hoping that i would fins sumthing GOOD@! but now im gonna leave...im terribly depressed....its too hard to stay positive now....

Alina
Originally posted by LovelyOne
I actually think that curiosity scene may be very relevant to AWE and its outcome

...but what annoys me about T&T..is that they COULD have EASILY written it so Liz was starting to fall in love with Jack in DMC..we all thought it was happening ANYWAY (hence the fact there are 27 J/E suporters on this forum and 1 or 2 W/E supporters) J/E just comes across so natural as if its meant to happen...and they thought that kind of thing would be unbelievable to an audience??

well how VERY wrong they were..J/E shippers (which out number W/E shippers) actually believed that it was pretty damn possible when they came out of DMC..because J/E as a relationship makes more sense that W/E...DMC appeared to show us all this..T&T have done a pretty crap job of trying to portray what ever the hel they are trying to portray with DMC..they made it look as if Liz was meant to be with Jack..the compass etc..then you look at the god damn ending and she looks as if she realizes she;s meant to be with Jack for ****s sake..and when you look at that and then look at everything else in the story you would think that is the relationship that would eventually emerge out of AWE.

You know, even my dad, who has spend 30 years analyzing movies, has been fooled...It's ridiculous...

LovelyOne
they ****ed up with what ever the hell they were trying to do

my film studies teacher who is 30 odd too..who teaches teens about pretty much any film imaginable also thinks its pointng J/E and that they are meant to be together..

He's been made a fool of too. as have the rest of my class..

If I tell him what T&T are saying he will probably laugh his head off and think I'm joking

CaptinJackLover
this is insane! insane! insane! F****** UP!!!!!

Surreal_44
You know, not all these comments are anti-Sparribeth...


TnT do spend a fair amount of time discussing how J/E feel about each other, and how hard they are trying to NOT feel that way for each other.


I see no definitive, "J/E is never going to happen" comment on here, so I wouldn't just give up or get pissed right now...


Of course, if any of you want to start sailing on the good ship Norribeth, we are currently accepting new passengers. big grin

Alina
Originally posted by LovelyOne
they ****ed up with what ever the hell they were trying to do

my film studies teacher who is 30 odd too..who teaches teens about pretty much any film imaginable also thinks its pointng J/E and that they are meant to be together..

He's been made a fool of too. as have the rest of my class..

If I tell him what T&T are saying he will probably laugh his head off and think I'm joking

How can 2 professionals be wrong too? What the hell is TnT playing at?

LovelyOne
grr I pre-ordered DMC..i wish I didnt now..feel like 've wasted my money on a film I loved for pretty much one reason..and now I learn is all fake..and not real..

CaptinJackLover
Originally posted by Surreal_44
You know, not all these comments are anti-Sparribeth...


TnT do spend a fair amount of time discussing how J/E feel about each other, and how hard they are trying to NOT feel that way for each other.


I see no definitive, "J/E is never going to happen" comment on here, so I wouldn't just give up or get pissed right now...


Of course, if any of you want to start sailing on the good ship Norribeth, we are currently accepting new passengers. big grin


heheh if things dont work out for JE i will gor for Norribeth withouth a doubt! but im still tryin to root for JE!

JD_4_Life
To be honest...I'm not surprised. I saw it coming.

JD_4_Life
Like I said before, you can't be too sure about something. T and T have wicked tricks up their sleeve. They're the WRITERS. You can't predict everything.

LovelyOne
I'm not surprised I've been thinking it for a while..and yes I think there are a few tricks up their sleeves..they said the ending of the trilogy is unexpected but only when you see it..after the "shock" has been absorbed the audience will be thinking it should have been no other way...

they say we are going to see our hero win at the end, but its just HOW he wins that is the most important thing..and They also say their hero smiles in all 3 acts of a movie..which means they feel the hero is 100% Jack in the story...even if Will is brought to the forefront in AWE..Its all going to boil back to Jack it seems..

and the ending is a "who,what,why,where,how, when??" "whodunit??" kinda deal apparently

LovelyOne
and IMO..Even if this is a way for W/E to get together..they never would have even made it seem as if something might develop between J/E..most relationships start out on physical attraction first no?..

In most romances in stories..they usually start out wanting each other but not wanting to want each other.

and for the remainder of the story they will be pursuing/sparring with eachother..and they usually do end up with that person..

JD_4_Life
wait- so are you saying that you think J/L will end up together or W/L are?

LovelyOne
no idea...

its weird to me how they openly discuss where W/E seem to be heading but Jack's path in this movie and the next is being handled with care. They are not talking about much when it comes to Jack

They said if DMC was the last in the series they would be happy with it going out like this because they made some basic statements when it came to all the characters before it closed


although Liz appears to be very Will focused..there is an attraction to Jack.

Will make a promise to rescue his dad and he appears to be his No1 priority.

Jack decidds to make Elizabeth an obligation and dies knowing he wants her in his life.

Elizabeth makes a bold statement that she belongs to Will by what she does to Jack (although we see even here that she wants Jack very badly)

before the movie closes there seems to be another emotional choice made with Elizabeth..Its her final choice..something deep is going on with Liz in that scene and they just wont discuss it in detail for some reason...but she seems to be wanting Jack back more than anything..it looks as if she loves him. (this was before I was even a shipper I thought this)

Will spots this and seems to want her to follow her heart which is bringing Jack back, because he's now really tied to his father She wants to bring Jack..the good man back that she killed. link that back to the curiosity scene and IMO the fact she wants Jack to be a good man is totally inconsistent with the theme of lust..if she's bothered about having a physical attraction to Jack then why on earth is she talking about what she wants from Jack in terms of his mind and soul?..If it was a mere physical thing then she would surely just be going on about his physical appearance.

is the good man in him possibly the one thing she would ever love about Jack?

everyone is talking about Jack the good man being dead from the world..and its less bright...

JD_4_Life
I know. It's kind of confusing to me too. I'm tired of T and T screwing with our minds. It's insane. It's hard to be a Sparrabeth shipper and think that Will and Liz may end up together.

JD_4_Life
Liz is just a smiple tease and sometimes she gets whipped up in certain things, and says stuypid stuff. So it's hard to really know if she's serious or is it all a game of mindless love?

LovelyOne
I know it sucks lol..I just know I'm going to be sitting there in AWE and if its all W/E I'll just be thinking "oh god what COULD have been"..

I'm sick of them screwing with our minds too..

you know what..no matter how well written AWE is.. and if it explains away why J/E can never ever, ever be an item..I dont think J/E shippers and general lovers of that relationship will ever accept her choosing the whelp over Captain Jack Sparrow

thats even gonna piss off the people who love Jack the very most and are not bothered about will and Elizabeth. Lots of people dont like Will all that much...critics included.its also gonna feel weird to the general public who seem to think that is the way the franchise is heading..

PirateDiva
GrrRrRRrr.....ThIs THREAD TOTALLY JUST PISSED ME OFF!!!! IM OUT!!!!! AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!

LovelyOne
oh and I forgot to say..interesting how the start and end are tied in in a weird way as I have mentioned before and Gibbs says the world seems less bright without Jack in it...could this mean Liz's world is less bright without Jack , the good man in it?

it opens and her wedding looks bloody horrible, dark and miserable..and she looks as if she is mourning someone at a grave..then we are introduced to Jack in a coffin..She also appears to be mourning at the end at the death of Jack


we have that line " a lady widowed before marriage, searching for her husband lost at sea"

you cant be a widow unless you were already married to someone else and they are gone/dead from your life and you are then going to be re-married to someone else

Jack is dead and lost at sea..Liz goes in search of him..
sure as hell aint the whelp..

LovelyOne
Also...its interesting what they say about the chains being at the start of movie 1 and at the end of DMC...

when they first met Jack frees Elizabeth as a person/ makes an obligation to her and in doing so he gets chained up and restricted ..this happens again in DMC..as if it symbolizes a commitment to her..???

I'm sure its significant to something but I'm too tired to think properly

hang on

"I just want to point out another thing that I really like, its just, the chain, the first time they met it was about him being shackled, and using her to escape from that, from here, the end comes back again. "

he wants Elizabeth as an escape from what exactly?? He's chained to his pearl??

oh man I'm fooking confused

LovelyOne
oh **** I think I know...and it doesnt bode well for J/E sad

he gets shakled both times because of his honest side and he uses Elizabeth as a way to break free from that possibly...which would explain why he is so cold hearted when we first meet him in that draft script

Well I'm depressed..I'm going to bed sad sad sad

Mistypirate
IMO this DVD commentary is full of contradictions, I believe that TnT are doing what they do best, F@#@k with our minds. I don't think this commentary should be taken completely serious. Its not worth getting stressed out. I'm going to post about some quotes that I found really interesting yet contradicting.



I don't remember Liz hitting Norington over the head, I though Jack hit him. Anyways that part was for shadowing Liz turning on against Jack.



Wasn't the compass pointing at Jack after the persuade me scene? I thought it was pointing to Jack the wholes time, that was why Liz got a little upset. I am not getting it.



This is what I don't understand, they are contradicting themselves, "the I love marriage" is like a wager to see who falls out of love first? they aren't supposed to be in love at this point or are they??? Its supposed to be lust, or is it not?



I pretty much understood this whole part, Interesting notice, how TnT are only giving their opinions. See how they mention the word "I think" a few times.




If Liz hadn't been that tempted by Jack, I doubted that she would have gone to this extremes. Therefore they are letting us know that the reason she did this to Jack was because she was feeling something strong towards him.



Save Will from what? from the kraken? I really doubt it. What I understood was that Liz was trying to save him from betrayal, I don't think Liz would have trusted herself to be faithful to Will with Jack around. So IMO Liz was trying to save Will from a deception.



Ok let me finish the sentence...but she cannot drink because she realized she might kill a man that she may indeed love.

Chiki Mina
But she didnt kill just any man, she killed JACK SPARROW!! So whoever said that those tears were because she killed a man, needs to go to rehab.

Mistypirate
But she did killed a man, not just any man. She killed a man she may indeed Love.

Chiki Mina
ok seriously i smell BS big time. THis is getting worse. It looks to me as if its not even confirming both shippers. Its ****ed up.

Mistypirate
Yes thats what I'm saying TnT are practically doing what they like to do best. Which is to F%$#k with our minds. So this whole DVD commentary its just crab to me. Sorry for being so drastic. LOL That is my opinion.

LovelyOne
again this whole Jack being the brightness in her life/the world..her opening shot being, Dull and dead and raining and gloomy, she looks as if she's mourning..Jack introduced in a coffin..

When Jack comes back on the pearl he's surrounded in a burst of light as if to say.."this is what you need in your life"..Its Elizabeth's PoV..she's looking at Jack the god..the good man who came back..the true man he is.

opening and that scene is tied in with the end..and Gibbs says that line "already the world seems a little less bright" without jack the good man in it. It would also suggest that the message is getting directly to Elizabeth. Elizabeth needs Jack in her life, he makes her world brighter. (the good man that is)

Mistypirate
You are right, they couldn't be more clearer than that... Liz does indeed need him in her life. What is really bothering me is that they couldn't finish that line, about Liz raising her glass and not drinking it. Why? perhaps because they are hiding something that they don't what to say...They are creating some sort of diversion. I'm telling you's this is a conspiracy. big grin

Chiki Mina
Apart from Will, his a good man and all, but aside from that-WE'RE TALKING ABOUT JACK SPARROW.

He is a good man despite of everything a pirate, a drunk, a shit, an ass whatever the hell he is branded for he is a hell of a man.

Elizabeth did not cared at all from the beginning.
"Pirate or not this man save my life"

She doesnt care she never cared, she knows deep down that he is a great man and is the light of her dark gloomy days, he is the compass of her heart, he is the one who freed her from that damned corset!!!

Im sorry to sound so pathetic and poetic but Im speaking for all of us-for all J/L shippers out there.

Mistypirate
Alina may I enquire how you came to this? big grin How did you get a hold of this commentary. I'm just curious..

LovelyOne

Mistypirate
Well if this is true TnT had dugged themselves in a hole. I dont think TnT were aware of how big the J/L thing would turn out to be.

LovelyOne
damn..I apologize for that outburst..but I think I'm allergic to bull shit..

as A film studies student..I know what would be possible and impossible to develop in a story..and to say that the only legitimate kiss would be one where she kills Jack for Will... is just the biggest, load of tripe I have ever heard in all my time as a film studies student.

nothing is impossible when you want to develop a story a certain way..they are obviously making excuses as to why J/E can never have a kiss and have it be believable to an audience if it was love


I mean it obviously IS a possibility..a pretty believable one too because even when it wasn't their intent with DMC..millions of people thought J/E were heading somewhere and that Elizabeth may be falling in love with him..people BELIEVE its possible even when they seem to be saying its not...

Mistypirate
Well I apologize in advance. I would say is the biggest load of CRAB I've ever heard.

JD_4_Life
I KNEW it was only lust. The word "lust" was said a million times in that commentary.

LovelyOne
And I still dont think its only lust..because they fail to explain what the heck is going on with Liz in that very last scene..everything about it suggests its deeper than lust..its proper feelings for him

LovelyOne
and again..if its only lust then why is she so concerned about his honest nature if they were to ever be together in the future??? How can that be tied in with lust?..lust is physical emotion..not a mental one and she is very concerned that he "mentally" be the right kind of man for her if they were to ever be together in the future...and that whole thing about the "good man" being the thing she wants from jack but doesnt want to want, ties in with when he came back..what she did to him after he came back and also the last scene where they fail to explain what she is feeling...

JD_4_Life
Well..I'm just going by what the writers said. And clearly what they said was...it was LUST.

LovelyOne
yes and there was a clear lack of explanation on the end scene..
I think much of it was lust based until that end scene...the one thing Elizabeth would possibly only ever love about Jack..is the good man he is.

the writers also tend to contradict themselves..Terry and Ted both comment on the internet and it contradicts what they have said in the commentary

they are possibly changing what everything "might mean" all the time because they change things in AWE all the time too.or they are trying to throw us off the scent..if this ended J/E...then even if it was "only lust" in DMC it woud make sense that it would evolve into something more in the furure..

JD_4_Life
maybe. T and T are very complex. It's hard to tell.

LovelyOne
yeah I agree with you..

------------
I think the curiosity scene is actually forshadowing the outcome of AWE..

because they are talking about what the other must do in order for them to be together in the long run..the one thing that might possibly make one love the other in the future..

because she's only physically attracted to him here but she's talking about how he should be if they were to be together as an item..

lovethemtigers
Well, it's time to admit it....Jack Sparrow was just having a good time flirting around with Liz...and Liz was just using Jack to find Will.....why on earth she would want to find that eunichy pansy is beyond me...especially when the sexiest man in the world is flirting with you....and the way he looks at her just before the kiss...gosh, Johnny D should never have given those actions to Jack...cuz I totally misread them as a man falling in love...and Keira should have never had her character move in for that second almost kiss...cuz it made us think all kinds of things...and Beckett should have never sait that bit about fate interevenes...and Norrington should have never commented on his observations that Liz was daydreaming about Jack....and that dress should have never sunk to the bottom of the ocean...they should have had Will clinging to it for life...

JD_4_Life
yeah...she wants to see the best in him. And even if it turns out that she doesn't love him at all and it's just lust, I think that she cares about him deeply.

JD_4_Life
I just think that T and T love to make us fret over things.

lovethemtigers
i think i'm going to puke over AWE.....sorry I'm so dramatic....sorry for being depressed...it's just that I have alot of really sad things going on in my real life..and the J/E relationship was the bright spot...crazy, I know to look to a movie and fictional characters for happiness..but that's how this is for me..that's why I got obessed with this...tyring not to think about reality....oh well....now even my fantasy world is in upheaval...and it's not t and t's fault...it's mine, I guess...for falling in love with the characters of jack and liz....and them as a you and I, I -you, us.....

Mistypirate
Originally posted by lovethemtigers
i think i'm going to puke over AWE.....sorry I'm so dramatic....sorry for being depressed...it's just that I have alot of really sad things going on in my real life..and the J/E relationship was the bright spot...crazy, I know to look to a movie and fictional characters for happiness..but that's how this is for me..that's why I got obessed with this...tyring not to think about reality....oh well....now even my fantasy world is in upheaval...and it's not t and t's fault...it's mine, I guess...for falling in love with the characters of jack and liz....and them as a you and I, I -you, us.....

Hun I totally understand what you are saying, we sometimes tend to rely on this kind of things, is like an scape from the the real world, I understand you because sometimes I feel the same way. The time that I spend here in the forum talking about the movie and its characters makes me forget for a while about the problems I face daily. I mean coming here and talking to people that share the same passion makes me forget for a while about this obstacles that I encounter daily. But the funny thing is that those small problems wont last forever. Come on, guys this world would be a boring place without conflicts. Things happened for a reason, and that is why that neither one of you should give up. It upsets me to see that passionate people as you guys have given up so easily. Hope is the last thing one looses. There is no concrete evidence of what really is going to happen at the end of AWE. There is still a long way to go, five months is a long time. So please guys don't throw all your good theories over board. Keep the faith like Mina says. You know lovethemtigers, Its amazing to see people that you don't really know think the same way.

CaptinJackLover
i really wnat to keep faith ad i belive there is still a bit of faith in all of us but i just feel like my entire life from thwe time i first saw the movie till now has been a lie!

Mistypirate
But I bet you still have a bit of hope. Thats all that matters.

lovethemtigers
Originally posted by CaptinJackLover
i really wnat to keep faith ad i belive there is still a bit of faith in all of us but i just feel like my entire life from thwe time i first saw the movie till now has been a lie!
i know...I've been coming here on this forum and talking about this since July..and here we are at Thanksgiving...and still I can't seem to let go...i still come here...it's my escape.....it's like reading a romance novel and you can't wait to get to the end...where the virginal princess (who is deep down a spitfire) and the womanizing rouge (who really longs for true, deep love) unite and live happily ever after....sounds like Jack and Liz....so, I guess I'll settle for fanfiction since t and t don't seem to be on our side......

Can you guys believe that it is only about two weeks until the dvd is available....when I think back on these past 5 months ...it's hard to believe that it's almost here....and now...after these leaked scripts and commentaries...I dread watching the commentaries and having them shoot down all of our well thought out theroies....and the obvious clues that were on the screen...not made up, not twisted...the hard facts...and even that...is in question

Mistypirate
Lovethemtigers, do you think that a DVD commentary will reveal whats going to happen in the sequel? Nobody knows whats going to happen, I don't think that TnT would take a risk like this? IMO I really doubt it. Although I enjoy cursing them and talking bad about them, I must say that they are intelligent people.

CaptinJackLover
they arent as intelligent as we thought they were if the make AWE a WE ending!

Mistypirate
But It wont end up W/E, I cant guarantee you, but I have this feeling that something else its going to happen. I just feel hopeless trying to give you guys more hope. I know, that know matter what I say nothing is going to change the way you guys think. But I tried.

kiwibird
I havn't read all of your posts but after seeing the commentary I don't think it favours W/E that much;TnT made it seem like W/E was boring- they said something like how their relationship has been mainly practising with swords 3 hours a day for the past year... And they also pointed it out whenever there was a chance. So IMO its as unlikely to end W/E as it is to end J/E.

Alina
Originally posted by lovethemtigers
i think i'm going to puke over AWE.....sorry I'm so dramatic....sorry for being depressed...it's just that I have alot of really sad things going on in my real life..and the J/E relationship was the bright spot...crazy, I know to look to a movie and fictional characters for happiness..but that's how this is for me..that's why I got obessed with this...tyring not to think about reality....oh well....now even my fantasy world is in upheaval...and it's not t and t's fault...it's mine, I guess...for falling in love with the characters of jack and liz....and them as a you and I, I -you, us.....

Yeah, I join you with an air-sickness-bag..they will be needed...don't know what pisses me of most: the lack of JE, Elizabeth being a cold hearted ***** or Jack being heartbroken *ponders* I think the last one. I can't stand to think of Jack being unrequited in love with ElizaBITCH mad

LovelyOne

ToddianGirl
I think so Lovely cause isn't Tia able to see what really lies in people's hearts? Yes that's true because there was this interview with NH(The Actress who plays Tia) Said that Tia is able to see into people's hearts to know what they really want. I'll try to find the interview and I'll post it.

LovelyOne
she says "true desires and true hearts"

its interesting how they say she has this desire AS WELL...this could mean as weel as Jack having a similar desire to be wit her..or her admitting that she feels something deeper fof Jack as well as a simple wanting.

Terry & Ted also said the compass doesnt show you your hearts desire
but Tia can see it. They only use this word after she has kissed him and they then dont explain whats going on with Liz in that last scene..its obviously important because she is sitting with someone who can clearly see where her heart truly lies and what her true desire is.

She's actually offering Liz the blue pill or the red pill here...she takes the red.

return home to what you are used to...or go and see how deep the rabbit hole goes..

Alina
you are great LovelyOne...I'm amazed how you seem to find the tiniest bit of hope in the middle of all this....Wish it were me, but sadly this ship has sunk for me sad sad

LovelyOne
IMO this is her actually crossing the threshold to adventure..Tia is the supernatural aid and may also be the threshold guardian ..its the moment in the matrix where Morpheus offers the chance for Neo to follo what he wants most or leave and go home..red pill or blue pill

she offers Elizabeth a drink as a way to move on from Jack and forget about him as if its a wake, its also something that reminds her of how cold hearted she has been to Jack when he shows vulnerability.....she refuses to drink and decideds to go and find Jack.

lovethemtigers
Originally posted by LovelyOne
again this whole Jack being the brightness in her life/the world..her opening shot being, Dull and dead and raining and gloomy, she looks as if she's mourning..Jack introduced in a coffin..

When Jack comes back on the pearl he's surrounded in a burst of light as if to say.."this is what you need in your life"..Its Elizabeth's PoV..she's looking at Jack the god..the good man who came back..the true man he is.

opening and that scene is tied in with the end..and Gibbs says that line "already the world seems a little less bright" without jack the good man in it. It would also suggest that the message is getting directly to Elizabeth. Elizabeth needs Jack in her life, he makes her world brighter. (the good man that is)

I know, I agree...that's why I am getting so fed up with Ted and Terry...because the way Keira and Johnny played out Jack and Elizabeth I picked up on totally different vibes..I picked up on something real...and not just teasing....and that hallo of light...you are right...it has to mean something.....her clinging to his leg...i'm just so aggravated I just want to scream.....

lovethemtigers
Originally posted by JD_4_Life
I KNEW it was only lust. The word "lust" was said a million times in that commentary.

yeah but the thing is...lust can go a far way....lust can be the underlying ingredient for true and lasting love...you have to be very physically attracted to the person you choose to spend the rest of your days with.....so, T and T need to give this up.......but, I guess all the discussion is pointless...it's pretty clear they want Will and Liz....and it pisses me off....cuz they SUCK.

LovelyOne
i seriously DON'T think its only lust...the first time they actually say something thats deeper than lust for Jack is after she kisses him, they are suggesting she has feelings for him and something thats MUCH deeper than just wanting him..its different to everything else they have been saying..she has to admit she has feelings for him and holds a desire as well which is much deeper and permanent that a mere wanting of jack....its deeper than what the compass shows her.

lovethemtigers

LovelyOne
you know what guys..

they, IMO are still being very careful with what they are saying when it comes to DMC..because its still only the second movie..there is another to come..and If there IS something there which points to whats gonna happen next in AWE with will/Jack and LIZ..they sure as hell wont mention anything about it..or even discuss how J/E could be together in AWE or W/E

Did they happen to say anything on what Gibbs says to J&E before the persuade me convo between the two by any chance??and for the 20th millionthhh time..what on earth is going through her mind at the end and why are they not discussing it?

LovelyOne
they are ALSO not discussing whats going through Jack's mind once Liz does that to him..they are only talking about Liz..

as a matter of fact..during both her and Jack's last moments of the movie..all they do is comment on the props used in the scene..the chain for Jack..the cup for Liz..they are refusing to talk in depth as to whats going on on both in character's minds during their last moments of DMC...and this is obviously a last choice/statement made before the movie closes


and Elizabeth is actually IMO at THE most important moment of her journey, the one that will decide where her heart actually lies by the end of it all...and they are not discussing it.

Swann&Sparrow
I find it impossible to believe this tripe. How is it even possible for the WRITERS and PRODUCER NOT to be able to see the chemistry and the MONEY of J/E NOT EW.

OMGOMGOMGOMGOMG, some one has to kill T&T and Jerry and then bring out some clones that we could control with remotes. Seriously, cause even dummies with stuffing for heads can realize the money and chemistry that J/E has.

I desipised the CotBP ending so much that I acutally spat at the T.V screen when I saw it on DVD. Actually spat. I honestly was expecting Lizzie to run away with Jack, that is a real love story. How can they make characters develop then take it all way and say, 'Whops, my mistake. There was no real chemistry or love between them, just pure lust. Sorry mate, you got PUNKED'?!!

No nonononon, that's just idiotic and stupid. THey are DOING DAMAGE CONTROL, they experimented with J/E in the middle of EW and got huge reasults and MONEY. Now they have to BACKTRACK?!! They're trying to fix everything up in the comentary just to make it seem that they were fooling us all along.

Those bastards! Jack cannot be abused in a flippin EW spanner. It's just sick and wrong, HE'S OUR MAIN CHARRY, YOU CANNOT JUST PUT THE MAIN CHARRY AS A BUMP IN THE ROAD.

That' is complete and utter disrespect for his character, just to use him as a tool in a flipping idiotic, non sensical and utterly deprived of chemistry relationship spanner!??!?!?!?!?

This is bull. A loaad of bull.

lovethemtigers
okay, I am going to chill.....this is crazy..and Lovely, you are right, I suppose, there is no way they would give us any hints as to what's really going on...since is the movie in the middle....they can't give away what's going to happen in AWE....but I so wanted to hear in the commentaries..that they are smitten with each other...that they are in denial....that they want each other...but don't want to want each other....a hint of forbidden love.....why show the camera angles on Jack if that wasn't what the compass was pointing to...why did they want us to think that Liz wanted Jack..cuz that's what we were told...the audience was told - through Jack - that the compass points to what you want most in this world...and where does it point when Liz holds it - JACK...and then on top of this, they have all these flirting and sexual innuendos going on between jack and liz....very very confusing messages from Ted and Terry....

LovelyOne
I agree^^^ It certainly is very strange..

and tigers..they did actually say that they both want but dont want to want...i find it so interesting that they suddenly use the words "desire" and "feelings" in the same sentence once she has kissed him...because she knew she wantde him before that moment in the curiosity scene because of lust..all of a sudden she's admiting she has feelimgs for and also has a desire for him..

I have a crazy theory..and I dunno how to explain it..so maybe it would be better if I didnt laughing out loud

lovethemtigers
{{And it breaks my heart to see my fellow shippers so down. I have seen the commentary, and strangely, I saw it differently. Let's not forget something: in COTBP, it was all about Liz and Will, and in DMC, the chemistry between J/E (that could be seen only in small glimpses in COTBP) finally came out in the open. We cannot expect for Liz and Jack to fall in love by the end of the movie. They're just beginning to "taste" it. There IS an attraction, there is lust, and Liz may indeed love Jack (as Terry himself said), the last part being key. The commentary was true to DMC and DMC alone, and in my opinion it was very good at that. J&E have just realized the chemistry that burns between them, the attraction that pulls them together like a magnet. Liz was surprised to find out that she DOES feel something, and she's holding back like any woman who THINKS she's engaged to the right man for her would.

Last, we could not have expected the commentary to be all about how great J/E are, since it will be a key plot in the third movie, which they cannot spill any beans about. If they had babbled on and on about J/E and mushy mush romantic stuff, then I would have gotten worried. But they are holding back, which gives me a feelings we will be surprised next year. They have admitted that J/E have a connection, at the end there are feelings, there is lust, potential for growth, and for now, that is good enough for me. }}}

This was a post I pulled off of KTTC j/l shipper thread....and after reading this, I have to agree...I mean I've never really believed that Jack and Liz are in love....I believe they are starting to feel attraction for each other...but I do believe that it is at the very end that they realize that what's been going on between them was more than just a game...more than just lust.....that's why Jack is so serious in that last scene aboard the Pearl...it was as he was sailing away on the longboat that it hit him...for Liz is may be when he returns and she has that selfish impulse to taste what she has been lusting for...and it does make sense...and it's what we've been essentially saying all along....she is in denial...she wants to get rid of the temptation, because she is suppose to be inlove and engaged to another man, Will. But then there's Jack...I truly believe what started as a flirting game has developed into more than they were bargaining for...so it's possible that in AWE we will discover that Jack and Liz have fallen in love...just a thought...trying to be more positive...

LovelyOne
I said that about 5 times...after that kiss its like a realization on her behalf of just how much she desires to be with Jack Sparrow and she pulls back smile it is, IMO her "refusal of the call to adventure" - step 3

the very fact they said she now has a desire to be with him..and not just sex..they said it in terms of feelings for him..which is much deeper than "want" and "lust" deeper than what the compass shows her...because the compass only shows want and WANT changes..it doesn't according to them show you what you desire...desire is something deep and permanent

and we learn that Tia can see people's true desires and hearts...and right after Elizabeth realizes she has this desire and feelings for Jack she's sitting in Tia's hut(step 4 meeting the mentor..the one who helps them on their way), someone who can see where her heart lies..she wants to get to singapore to get Jack back for one reason or another, so is this why she waited for Jack to die first so that THEN elizabeth would willingly go after him because it is where her heart truly lies?..this will make her cross that threshold into adventure..and we see that she does..and why do T&T NOT discuss whats going on here at all in this last scene in terms of what Elizabeth is in fact feeling towards Jack...?

LovelyOne
again the definition of desire and in this case we know its not for sex because they say FEELINGS for him:


covet, fancy. See wish. 2. solicit. 3. aspiration, hunger, appetite, thirst. Desire, craving, longing, yearning suggest feelings that impel one to the attainment or possession of something. Desire is a strong feeling, worthy or unworthy, that impels to the attainment or possession of something that is (in reality or imagination) within reach: a desire for success. Craving implies a deep and imperative wish for something, based on a sense of need and hunger: a craving for food, companionship. A longing is an intense wish, generally repeated or enduring, for something that is at the moment beyond reach but may be attainable at some future time: a longing to visit Europe. Yearning suggests persistent, uneasy, and sometimes wistful or tender longing: a yearning for one's native land.

-------------------------------------

Its usually something you feel you NEED to have in your life and so you crave it..you need food to live, you need water to live..you may be starved of it and you crave it..there is a difference between want and desire..want is often associated with something you long for but dont actually need to make your lif any richer..desire is something much, MUCH deeper than mere want..

its the difference between want and need that they are trying to get across I think.

willofthewisp
Wait, wait, wait. Am I the only one who didn't see anything wrong or different about that commentary? You have to be kidding me. Half of that is stuff LovelyOne's been saying all along.

Big Point 1: Liz is not Jack's type, so he is convincing himself she's not, else why would he be attracted to her?

Well, Liz isn't Jack's type. Look at Scarlett and Giselle. He goes for easy girls that he can dominate and leave without a second thought. I'm surprised he remembered their names. Liz is something he's not used to, someone that pushes him back.

Big Point 2: In Curiosity, Jack and Liz bait each other and play hard to get.

Uh, yeah. They do. They are flirting and we all agreed they're flirting. And then the commentary even admits it goes a little further than both planned to. Just because Liz wouldn't have let him kiss her doesn't mean she didn't want him to. If you were Liz, would you really let Jack kiss you there? As much as you would want to? You want him to, but you're wanting to see more if he's a good man that can control himself.

Big Point 3: The compass points to the chest.

Oh my gosh, I've been saying this all along. It doesn't matter where the compass points. What matters is where the characters THINK it's pointing. It's all the power of suggestion. Liz sees the compass point to Jack. If she didn't want him, all she would think of it was that he was in the way of where the chest was. It wouldn't enter her mind that she'd want him romantically. And it does upset her that she's falling for Jack while she's engaged. It would bother anyone.
The compass points to what you want. Let's say I've got it and it points straight ahead of me. Well, that could mean anything. But in my mind, I know what I want and I can think, "Oh, it's pointing to my fiance," even though my little water bottle is straight in front of me.

Big Point 4: The kiss was meant to keep Jack away from Liz AND for her to try and save the others.

Hasn't LovelyOne been saying this the whole time? That Liz kissed Jack and left him to die so she wouldn't be tempted anymore? That means nothing in itself except she LEANS IN A SECOND TIME AND JACK OBVIOUSLY HAS A HARD-ON FROM IT. This whole scene depends on how Johnny and Keira chose to play it, not how it was written.

Liz: It's after you not the ship. It's not us. This is the only way, don't you see? I'm not sorry.

Jack: Pirate.

Think of all the ways these lines could be said. Think of all the expressions that can go with it, where you can pause, what you can be doing with your body. Johnny chose to smile and let Jack be caught up in the moment. Keira chose to play it very conflicted. Yeah, Liz isn't going to back down, but she's turned on and can't help herself and stops just in time from being kissed again.
I don't see anything that suggests there is no sparrabeth.

sparrobethroxmy
me neither i agree with u there is going to be alot of j/l moments in AWE i can feel it that commentary isn't an anti-sparrabeth it is just proving some facts we need to know and it can go both ways.

LovelyOne
OHHH i have the DVD and I haven't seen all of it yet but already I've noticed 3 things..that may be significant or may not be lol

1. When Beckett says time is running out for Jack and he will have to find his new place in the world there is a large clock being raised and the big hand is pointing to 2, the little hand is at 11 I think ...there is also a pattern in the middle..Then we directly cut to Jack looking at his compass with a similar pattern in the middle..the point points to where the small hand was then it points and stays N/E at 2 O'clock where the big hand of the clock was pointing...Just thought that was weird..was it pointing at Liz there? or Singapore??..amm guessing its port Royal because he says his "why is the rum gone" which is a link back to Liz.


2. When Will comes down the stairs to Liz in prison in the music you can hear a faint heartbeat ..this boy is doomed to stab that heart..

3. There's another child refrence from Gibbs..and yep its with Jack again..as a matter of fact if there are any children in this movie or if children are mentioned they are often tied in with Jack..(canibal island boy)

lovethemtigers
Ladies, I spent a few hours at the mall yesterday...and I couldn't help myself....me and my son went into the Disney store of course...and there was many POTC/DMC suff in there....I think I'm going to let "Santa" bring him some POTC t-shirts, he really liked them....

and then....I couldn't help it...I pre-purchased the DVD and got a free poster! YEAH.....of course, I'm going to let my son hang it in his room...I was a little disappointed, though. The poster was the one of just Jack looking through the ropes (not even a real movie still). I wanted the movie poster like on the home page for this forum...the one with Jack, Liz, Will, The Kraken...Oh well....at least it's Jack and not will or Elizabeth.....

Can't wait to see the DVD!

lovethemtigers
Also, while waiting on others in my family, we spent time in the book store and in the children's section there were tons of books about DMC...sticker books, color books, A Guide to the movies, etc...and the caption underneath the pic of when Jack takes Liz hostage was interesting..it said "Elizabeth's Choker"..."Jack seems like a deperate pirate who lets nothing stand between him and freedom or treasure. But he's not all bad. His threat to choke Elizabeth with the manacles is a bluff. After all, how could he kill a pretty woman whom he has just saved from a watery grave?"

ToddianGirl
Originally posted by lovethemtigers
Also, while waiting on others in my family, we spent time in the book store and in the children's section there were tons of books about DMC...sticker books, color books, A Guide to the movies, etc...and the caption underneath the pic of when Jack takes Liz hostage was interesting..it said "Elizabeth's Choker"..."Jack seems like a deperate pirate who lets nothing stand between him and freedom or treasure. But he's not all bad. His threat to choke Elizabeth with the manacles is a bluff. After all, how could he kill a pretty woman whom he has just saved from a watery grave?"

That's Interesting. That's Very Interesting! Edting: To Say I too have seen those books too. Yesterday I was at CrossingBlades.com(Its a POTC forum and someone posted this visual guide book to the POTC series that comes out next year. They found it at walmart.com I so going to buy it. Also I looked at this POTC sticker book at another site they posted the stickers and there page with a sticker of Jack and right on the same page is a sticker of Elizabeth!

LovelyOne
Willofthewisp. I agree with you.

In the commentary they are saying what we always thought it was between the two..its only recently we all started to believe she may be in love with him..I still think she may be gaining deeper feelings for him after that kiss..or they were always there and were actually awakened by that kiss...not saying its love but something is there..and she refuses to listen to it and "rejects" him...and her last choice is all Jack Sparrow and not Will Turner.

and it made me laugh how you said he has a hard on form it laughing out loud

willofthewisp
Thanks, I'm sometimes crude.

I just didn't see anything that we hadn't discovered ourselves, and there is especially no evidence from the commentary that J/E is not going to happen, or is just a figment of our overactive imaginations.

It would be just as enlightening to see what the comments are in the few scenes that Will and Liz are together, especially the prison and wedding scene. If the comments foreshadow doom, we have strong evidence in favor of J/E.

Text-only Version: Click HERE to see this thread with all of the graphics, features, and links.