How old is gandalf?

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coolmovies
Hobbits have long lives so i was wondring how old is gandalf . Bilbo baggins was his old friend ? roll eyes (sarcastic)

thefallen544
Depends, Gandalf as the Maia Olorin is immortal. He existed when Middle-Earth was born and will exist when it comes to its end. As Gandalf the old Wizard who travelled across Middle-Earth probably about 2,021 years old. From his arrival in ME in the year 1000 of the Third Age to his departure to the West in the year 3021 Third Age.

coolmovies
wow thanks alot must be the oldest person ever !!

Council#13
Radagast is about the same age, as they arrived together, right? Actually, Radagast would be older by a few seconds, as he got off the boat before Gandalf! stick out tongue

Rampant ox
How old does that make Saruman then?

thefallen544
Saurman would be the same age (around 2,000 years from 1,000 3rd Age to 3019 3rd age), Saurman was the first to get off the boat/arrive as we know Gandalf arrived last and looked the least of them. Grey haired and clad in grey leaning upon a staff.

All the Five Istari's Mortal bodies would be the same age, but we know not what happened to the two Blue Wizards and Saurman was slain. Their spirits however are immortal.

vanice
yup, it just came to my mind. In the two towers movie, gandalf says something like "three ages have I walked this earth, and now I am lack of time". can't remember if he does in the book. however I don't know how many years an "age" is so this doesn't mean anything. It's just the number three that confused me a little.

Hewkii_Dude
Originally posted by coolmovies
wow thanks alot must be the oldest person ever !!

He and all mayas..

thefallen544
Although Tom Bombadil is older, the oldest actually. Tom was around before anything if I remember correctly. He is also the only being able to full resist the pull of the one ring. He could hold it or look upon it without feeling its pull because no part of his being desired it. Or the power it could bring.

thtadthtshldntb
Eru Illuvatar is the oldest being, he created all the Ainur (the Valar and the Maiar are the Ainur who went into Creation to shape it after its Creation).

Tom Bombadil is not a maia as far as I know. I think Tom Bombadil is something like the Ents and the great Eagles, elemental spirits created by Eru or the Valar to serve a certain purpose.

thefallen544
Tom is however still the Eldest being in Middle-Earth he says so himself. He is also one the purest. No one truly knows what Tom Bombadil is, he is an engima if hes a Maia or not we don't know its left for us to decide for ourselves really.

thtadthtshldntb
Originally posted by thefallen544
Tom is however still the Eldest being in Middle-Earth he says so himself. He is also one the purest. No one truly knows what Tom Bombadil is, he is an engima if hes a Maia or not we don't know its left for us to decide for ourselves really.

But Gandalf and all the Valar and Maiar are themselves older than Middle Earth...

So either Tom Babadil is Eru Illuvater or he simply means he is the oldest being who was born on Middle Earth.

thefallen544
The spirit Olorin is older than Middle-Earth. Gandalf as he existed in Middle-Earth is about 2,000. Tom seems to state that he was there at the very beginning of creation that he was not born per se. I seem to him saying he remembers the first rain drop at some point...must find quote.

Dresta
Originally posted by thefallen544
Saurman would be the same age (around 2,000 years from 1,000 3rd Age to 3019 3rd age), Saurman was the first to get off the boat/arrive as we know Gandalf arrived last and looked the least of them. Grey haired and clad in grey leaning upon a staff.

All the Five Istari's Mortal bodies would be the same age, but we know not what happened to the two Blue Wizards and Saurman was slain. Their spirits however are immortal.
So what happens to Sarumans spirit after he is killed.

thtadthtshldntb
It goes to the Undying Lands and reincarnates. Then Saruman answers to Aule.

Dresta
he probably got ***** slapped

thefallen544
It is also suggested that Saurmans spirit was too weak from his fall, that he was never to return to the blessed realm, that he would have been subjected to the same fate as Sauron a weak spirit. This is implied because his spirit in a grey mist is seen to rise from his body and quote

"as a pale shrouded figure it loomed over the Hill. For a moment it wavered, looking to the West; but out of the West came a cold wind, and it bent away, and with a sigh dissolved into nothing." ROTK, Scouring of the Shire.

I put it forward that Saurman/Curumo did not return to the West for he failed and fell into darkness. Only Gandalf/Olorin is confirmed to have returned to the West from where he came.

Dusty
700, I believe.


Oh wait, I'm thinking about Belgarath. Nevermind.

Draugwen
Wrong books, Dusty stick out tongue Gandalf is just a teeny bit older^^

ESB -1138
Didn't he come around year 1000 of the third age making him like 2000+ based on his life spent on Middle-earth.

Dusty
Originally posted by Draugwen
Wrong books, Dusty stick out tongue Gandalf is just a teeny bit older^^

Hehe.

Dresta
Originally posted by Dusty
700, I believe.


Oh wait, I'm thinking about Belgarath. Nevermind.
that was 7000 anyways.

coolmovies
Saurman looks older coz gandalf looks younger . Look at gandlafs hair and then at saruman its easy to work out which is older

thefallen544
Their mortal bodies are both as near as can be told the same age, 2,000 or so years as they both arrived in the same year 1,000 of the 3rd Age of Middle-earth. Their spirits are Immortal they existed in the beginning before Ea and they shall exist at the end. When Saurman arrived in Middle-earth his hair was Raven Black so he has shown signs of ageing as have all the Istari albeit very slowly.

kamikz
Originally posted by coolmovies
Saurman looks older coz gandalf looks younger


Lol, makes sense somehow.stick out tongue

The Sacred Fire
Originally posted by thefallen544
It is also suggested that Saurmans spirit was too weak from his fall, that he was never to return to the blessed realm, that he would have been subjected to the same fate as Sauron a weak spirit. This is implied because his spirit in a grey mist is seen to rise from his body and quote

"as a pale shrouded figure it loomed over the Hill. For a moment it wavered, looking to the West; but out of the West came a cold wind, and it bent away, and with a sigh dissolved into nothing." ROTK, Scouring of the Shire.

I put it forward that Saurman/Curumo did not return to the West for he failed and fell into darkness. Only Gandalf/Olorin is confirmed to have returned to the West from where he came.

So, Saruman's weakened spirit was banished to the Void, the Northern Waste, or locked behind the Door of Night along with Morgoth?

Raises another good point. If the Undying Lands is Tolkiens 'heaven' then what is his 'hell' (He did include many Christian parallels).

thtadthtshldntb
Melkor is not exactly locked out so much as diligence by Manwe and by the Ainur on the outside keeps him out.

Saruman's spirit like Sauron's presumably are too weak to make their own new bodies and for obvious reasons don't want to go to the halls of Mandos.

The Sacred Fire
Originally posted by thtadthtshldntb
Melkor is not exactly locked out so much as diligence by Manwe and by the Ainur on the outside keeps him out.

Didn't the Valar lock Morgoth up in chains again after they came to ME to end his reign of power?

thtadthtshldntb
Nope. That was the first time. Melkor was eventually released and dwelled in Valinor after he conned them.

After the final battles of the First Age, Morgoth was cast out beyond the Door of Night is held there by the diliegence of Mandos on the inside and presumably the Ainur on the outside.

The Sacred Fire
Ok now I'm ****ing confused.

I have read the Simarillion before but that doesn't register...

He lived in Valinor? Is this just before he persuades Ungoliant to poison the trees of Valinor?

So where and what is the Door of Night? I always thought it was just a phrase for the beginning of night, you know like eternal darkness. There's an inside and outside? Now I really don't understand it...

thtadthtshldntb
In the Halls of Mandos, where spirits go when their bodies die, unless one is a sufficiently powerful Ainur.

Well, to be technical, there are two references IIRC to a Door of Night, one having something to do with the Sun, but the other being the gateway inside the Halls of Mandos, to the void outside creation, where the Eru and the rest of the Ainur are, and where the spirits of Man pass on to.

coolmovies
what did gandalf do all those years ?

Cap'n Happy
Originally posted by thefallen544
It is also suggested that Saurmans spirit was too weak from his fall, that he was never to return to the blessed realm, that he would have been subjected to the same fate as Sauron a weak spirit. This is implied because his spirit in a grey mist is seen to rise from his body and quote

"as a pale shrouded figure it loomed over the Hill. For a moment it wavered, looking to the West; but out of the West came a cold wind, and it bent away, and with a sigh dissolved into nothing." ROTK, Scouring of the Shire.

I put it forward that Saurman/Curumo did not return to the West for he failed and fell into darkness. Only Gandalf/Olorin is confirmed to have returned to the West from where he came.

Yes, his spirit certainly did NOT return to the blessed realm, that is made clear by the text you quoted. Furthermore, I've always interpreted those words to mean that Saruman actually died as in oblivion- "...dissolved into nothing." Unlike Sauron, he wasn't powerful enough to remain as a malevolent shadow, spiteful yet powerless. That's my take on it anyway.
Yes, Gandalf and the other wizards first existed as immortal spirits long before coming to m-e, but in strict m-e years, there are many older beings... a number of the Elves are older, and Ents as well... and of course Tom Bombadil was the first living thing to exist, created by Iluvitar for some unknown purpose... greater than Elvish kings, yet simple as a Hobbit, Tom is the olderst, as he likes to say.

Cap'n Happy
Originally posted by The Secret Fire
So, Saruman's weakened spirit was banished to the Void, the Northern Waste, or locked behind the Door of Night along with Morgoth?

Raises another good point. If the Undying Lands is Tolkiens 'heaven' then what is his 'hell' (He did include many Christian parallels).

Hell was on earth- Angband, the strong hold of Morgoth. Morgoth attempted to counter "paradise" by turning m-e into its exact opposite. I don't believe there was ever any other hell-like realm in JRR's writings except for the hell which was Angband (and later Mordor).

Cap'n Happy
Originally posted by thefallen544
It is also suggested that Saurmans spirit was too weak from his fall, that he was never to return to the blessed realm, that he would have been subjected to the same fate as Sauron a weak spirit. This is implied because his spirit in a grey mist is seen to rise from his body and quote

"as a pale shrouded figure it loomed over the Hill. For a moment it wavered, looking to the West; but out of the West came a cold wind, and it bent away, and with a sigh dissolved into nothing." ROTK, Scouring of the Shire.

I put it forward that Saurman/Curumo did not return to the West for he failed and fell into darkness. Only Gandalf/Olorin is confirmed to have returned to the West from where he came.

thtadthtshldntb
No. At the beginning, in the Ainulindale or the Valaquenta, Eru himself states that all spirits are basically indestructible. He made them that way, with the Flame Imperishable, which is something that exists only inside Eru himself.

As to the dissolving into nothing comment, that simply means that the presence there faded and dispersed and that nothing remained in that place.

And the Firstborn of Illuvatar came awoke long after the Ainur had been shaping the Earth for them.

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