Yujiro Hanma Vs Akuma

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Emperor Ashtar
Fight takes place in goukentou, who wins?

Hoshi
in this fight i see no chance of yujirou winning .Yujirou is a badass , that is for sure,but gouki destroyed mountains and melted trees with his ki.Yujirou may have more tech and stuff like that , but he is completely overpowered when it comes down to firepower

Emperor Ashtar
Originally posted by Hoshi
in this fight i see no chance of yujirou winning .Yujirou is a badass , that is for sure,but gouki destroyed mountains and melted trees with his ki.Yujirou may have more tech and stuff like that , but he is completely overpowered when it comes down to firepower

Yujiro stopped an earthquake by punching it, and gouki's fire power is simple an extension of his physical strentgh. It shouldn't be to much of a problem.

Hoshi
what you call destroying ayers rock (biggest rock in the world) with his simple ki??
By stopping the earthquake you mean the time when baki was going to fight him serious for the first time ??his punch was strong, but he didnt stop the earthquake with only power, it was like 90%tech 10%power , or even less, the place where he punched didnt made a huge hole or anything

Emperor Ashtar
Originally posted by Hoshi
what you call destroying ayers rock (biggest rock in the world) with his simple ki??
By stopping the earthquake you mean the time when baki was going to fight him serious for the first time ??his punch was strong, but he didnt stop the earthquake with only power, it was like 90%tech 10%power , or even less, the place where he punched didnt made a huge hole or anything
So because he didn't split the ground, it isn't a strong? 90% tech, yujiro isn't a technical guy. Sure, he can assimilate other peoples technique's,But, that's because he has natural fighting skills.

Hoshi
yujirou is not tech guy?? sorry , but i think you are totaly wrong .He is the most tech guy in grappler baki universe, as well as the one who has the knowledge about human anathomy , if you see in the mangas (search for our strongest hero) you can see yujirou studying to learn tech

Emperor Ashtar
Originally posted by Hoshi
yujirou is not tech guy?? sorry , but i think you are totaly wrong .He is the most tech guy in grappler baki universe, as well as the one who has the knowledge about human anathomy , if you see in the mangas (search for our strongest hero) you can see yujirou studying to learn tech

I have "search of the strongest hero", when is he studying tech refresh my memory? Yujiro uses pure power with a little tech he assimilates from other fighters. The best example of this is when he uses his "Ogre Pwer".

Hoshi
i hope you dont think you will se yujirou studying in a chair , i mean he reflects about the techs inside his head.When he saw shinogi kureha he said: martial arts end up coming close to anathomy , but there arent many who knows exactly how they work in a fight, they all end up discovering that by intinct , except me and kureha

Hoshi
he understand a lot of humans fisic(i dont mean he is a cdf)

Emperor Ashtar
Originally posted by Hoshi
i hope you dont think you will se yujirou studying in a chair , i mean he reflects about the techs inside his head.When he saw shinogi kureha he said: martial arts end up coming close to anathomy , but there arent many who knows exactly how they work in a fight, they all end up discovering that by intinct , except me and kureha

mad That's not fair, you have it translated!
How far are you?

EDIT: Yujiro came off as a guy who uses brute force and little skill. Especially when he uses his ogre power. What the hell is he, I know he isn't human because they showed what seemed to be baby yujiro in one chapter playing with a poison frog and he had fangs as a baby. Also, his power seems to have been passed on to baki.

Hoshi
probaly the same distance you are if you are already reading son of the ogre

Emperor Ashtar
Originally posted by Hoshi
probaly the same distance you are if you are already reading son of the ogre

How much do you have translated, and do you have son of the ogre translated?

Hoshi
yujirou was born with a mission(like the world chose him to be the strongest creature)

Hoshi
i think the serie has not ended in japan yet, since i dont have the end of it

Emperor Ashtar
So, I assume you have the entire manga up to son of the ogre translated, right?

Hoshi
nope , probaly i am a little bit late since it takes a while for the guys who "work for us" think about translating tha manga

Emperor Ashtar
Originally posted by Hoshi
nope , probaly i am a little bit late since it takes a while for the guys who "work for us" think about translating tha manga

Man, like no one enjoys doing this manga.

Hoshi
hehe , although we are arguing about the winner , i am very happy there is someone who knows grappler baki in kmc, sorry man , but i think i am going to sleep , in my coutry it is already midnight and i dont want to disturb my mate

Emperor Ashtar
Let's not forget though hoshi, the feats that gouki performed have been replicated in some shape or form in grappler baki. For instance, Speck survived 200 meters under water similar to gouki surviving 300 meters. Yujiro stopped an earthquake and gouki sunk an island. The difference in power isn't so great. Hell, speck almost destroyed the statue of liberty with punches.

Hoshi
Goukis feats: Split the ocean in a half.Sank his island after fighting gen and ryu.Could jump more than 200 m.Kicked a car like it was a footbal ball.Destroyed a comet which was 1/3 the size of earth.There is indeed a great difference in power(like you said , Speck ALMOST destroyed the liberty statue with some punchs , gouki destroyed the ayers rock with one punch without much effort)

Hoshi
Originally posted by Emperor Ashtar
Let's not forget though hoshi, the feats that gouki performed have been replicated in some shape or form in grappler baki. For instance, Speck survived 200 meters under water similar to gouki surviving 300 meters. Yujiro stopped an earthquake and gouki sunk an island. The difference in power isn't so great. Hell, speck almost destroyed the statue of liberty with punches.

200m and 300 m are very different , although it may not look like it.200m is about 20 atm of pressure , 30m is about 30 atm pressure , a considerable difference in terms of resistance

Remulous
Gouki, he punched a comet...and destroyed it. Now if Gouki couldn't go Shin in this fight it would be 1 action packed battle. Aint this against the rules?

Emperor Ashtar
Originally posted by Remulous
Gouki, he punched a comet...and destroyed it. Now if Gouki couldn't go Shin in this fight it would be 1 action packed battle. Aint this against the rules?
That comet feats is not canon, neither is fighting evolution.

Remulous
Originally posted by Emperor Ashtar
That comet feats is not canon, neither is fighting evolution. Just becuase it didn't really happen doesn't mean he can't do it. His powers weren't over exadgurated in that game. I could understan if it was MVC or something but it was CFE, more than 60% of that game was SF and the rest of the cast are Capcom originals. Why would their powers need to be beefed up?

Emperor Ashtar
Originally posted by Remulous
Just becuase it didn't really happen doesn't mean he can't do it. His powers weren't over exadgurated in that game. I could understan if it was MVC or something but it was CFE, more than 60% of that game was SF and the rest of the cast are Capcom originals. Why would their powers need to be beefed up?

Because street fighter characters aren't a much for characters from vampire savior. Fighting evolution had an ending showing ryu fighting jon taliban. I don't have to tell you how much of a mismatch that is. I take feats from fighting game with a grain of salt.

Remulous
Ryu versus Talbain is a mismatch? I thought that was a good fight, like Dante versus Jedah. Still I think Gouki is capable of destroying a comet.

Emperor Ashtar
Originally posted by Remulous
Ryu versus Talbain is a mismatch? I thought that was a good fight, like Dante versus Jedah. Still I think Gouki is capable of destroying a comet.

capcom has stated that vampire svaiors weakest characters can destroy street fighter s strongest. Time and tiome again capcom has established that they are not in the same league.

I dunno if dante versus jedah would work, seems like another mismatch.

Emperor Ashtar
Originally posted by Hoshi
200m and 300 m are very different , although it may not look like it.200m is about 20 atm of pressure , 30m is about 30 atm pressure , a considerable difference in terms of resistance

Yujiro is still more badass than gouki, when stridum questioned his ability. He casually picked up the phone, dialed the white house and threatened to punch the president of the united states in the face. Then he went to the white house, defeated the riot police and scared the president, lol!

Hoshi
the police ? you mean those guys that didnt even had guns ? the "swat" team that yujirou pushed ? Gouki would kill all of them with a half baked hadouken .

Emperor Ashtar
Originally posted by Hoshi
the police ? you mean those guys that didnt even had guns ? the "swat" team that yujirou pushed ? Gouki would kill all of them with a half baked hadouken .

there were two secret service men with guns, and yujiro fought vietnam armed with only his fist and a knife. Your underestimating him, and giving akuma the adavantage because he's akuma.

Hoshi
yeah , 2 mens in black with guns.I know yujirou fought in the vietnan war, but as you saw , he didnt fight all the armed mens head on , he used tactics to fight them.
Strengh : Gouki destroyed ayers rock
Speed: looks like he is teleporting
Resistence : literally took a full power hadouken with his head and wasnt even hurted.
Experience:Just like yujirou , fight since he was a kid , and fight and kill the worth opponents .

Emperor Ashtar
Originally posted by Hoshi
yeah , 2 mens in black with guns.I know yujirou fought in the vietnan war, but as you saw , he didnt fight all the armed mens head on , he used tactics to fight them.
Strengh : Gouki destroyed ayers rock
Speed: looks like he is teleporting
Resistence : literally took a full power hadouken with his head and wasnt even hurted.
Experience:Just like yujirou , fight since he was a kid , and fight and kill the worth opponents .

Are you using alpha generations as a source, lol. Yujiro learned a technique it took kaku kaiou 20 years to learn in 2 minutes.

Hoshi
you mean retsu kaiou , the kung fu master? if you do , yujirou trained at his temple too

Emperor Ashtar
No, retsu kaiou is the guy from the tournament. Kaku kaiou is the old man in the dairaitaisai tournament held in china every 100 years. Kaku is the last winner and he's hundreds of years old.

Hoshi
doesnt change the fact that yujirou trained at his temple too

Emperor Ashtar
Originally posted by Hoshi
doesnt change the fact that yujirou trained at his temple too

He did, when and for how long?

EDIT: I thought yujiro had natural talent, and didn't need to study that much.

Hoshi
i dont know how long , but it shows his image at the temple while retsu was training,

Hoshi
he has indeed talent, much more than anyone from grappler baki , but so does akuma in the sf universe

Emperor Ashtar
Originally posted by Hoshi
i dont know how long , but it shows his image at the temple while retsu was training,

I know what youur talking about, that's not yujiro that's another Kaihou who made a tunnel by punching at the side of the moutain. He has green hair and doesn't have the sign of the ogre.

I doubt yujiro trained at northern shoalin temple, why would he have too? He learned a technique in 2 minutes that it took a master 20 years.


It's funny, there are some serious similarities between yujiro and gouki.

-gouki took the appearence of an ogre because of his mallicous intent; Yujiro has the face of an ogre on his back because of he loved fighting

Hoshi
the guy it showed didnt have green hair, he was just like yujirou , even the hair was almost equal to how it is now.

Emperor Ashtar
Originally posted by Hoshi
the guy it showed didnt have green hair, he was just like yujirou , even the hair was almost equal to how it is now.

Of course it's not going to have color it's a manga, and in the anime it showed him having green hair. Never mind that the guy they showed did not have the mark of the ogre. Also, Why would yujiro have to train in northern shoalin?

Hoshi
yujirou trained at almost all decent places , maybe he trained for little time , but he did it. In the anime it show a guy with the same hairstyle as yujirou , with yellow hair , but the same smile and body .

Even if he learned such a tech , he wouldnt be able to win against gouki.What yujirou has in his upper hand? More tech maybe, but that is all . Speed,power,firepower,experience,bloodline , akuma is far superior in all aspects.

Emperor Ashtar
Originally posted by Hoshi
yujirou trained at almost all decent places , maybe he trained for little time , but he did it. In the anime it show a guy with the same hairstyle as yujirou , with yellow hair , but the same smile and body .

Even if he learned such a tech , he wouldnt be able to win against gouki.What yujirou has in his upper hand? More tech maybe, but that is all . Speed,power,firepower,experience,bloodline , akuma is far superior in all aspects.


Okay, now your just being biased. First of all the guy cannot be yujiro, he is a kaiou. Retsu knows him,yet,when he met yujiro he said nothing about him being a kaiou.

Second, yujiro has natural talent he doesn't need to train, and what bloodline advantage does gouki have?! Experience is about the same, Speed is a a maybe, power about the same.

Hoshi
power about the same? Destroying ayers rock and a island with a single punch is nothing like yujirou has ever done before.
Bloodline ? gouki posses the natural power of the dark hadou , something a very few people does, and hell yes, much more terrifying than yujirous ogre thing.
Speed like you said is a maybe , but goukis speed if he wants is so fast you can only see his after image, yujirou has that speed with his moves, but not body speed.
You mean Yujirou never trains?I believe yujirous training is beating the hell out of fighters , like baki said himself.
Experience ? Probaly they are almost equal , but Gouki is used to fighting guys like yujirou , but yujirou certainly is not used to fight someone who is able to do attacks based in ki like the hadouken.

Hoshi
street fighter moves , the majority of them , are based on real moves transformed in super moves.Zangief spining power bomb for example , he who has over 150 kg grab his opponent(anyone , even blanka or honda) , jump about 2 m or more (more than the world record) , spind his oponent about three times and hit his head on the floor .And that is not even a super strong move in SF , but in grappler baki a well executed suplex can KO tough guys like Hanayama .
Yujirou killed a polar bear with a deadly combination , balrog kille an elephant with a single punch.

Emperor Ashtar
Originally posted by Hoshi
street fighter moves , the majority of them , are based on real moves transformed in super moves.Zangief spining power bomb for example , he who has over 150 kg grab his opponent(anyone , even blanka or honda) , jump about 2 m or more (more than the world record) , spind his oponent about three times and hit his head on the floor .And that is not even a super strong move in SF , but in grappler baki a well executed suplex can KO tough guys like Hanayama .
Yujirou killed a polar bear with a deadly combination , balrog kille an elephant with a single punch.
Well, yujiro killed a polar bear a long time ago. Just recently he killed an elephant as well.

Emperor Ashtar
Originally posted by Hoshi
power about the same? Destroying ayers rock and a island with a single punch is nothing like yujirou has ever done before.
Bloodline ? gouki posses the natural power of the dark hadou , something a very few people does, and hell yes, much more terrifying than yujirous ogre thing.
Speed like you said is a maybe , but goukis speed if he wants is so fast you can only see his after image, yujirou has that speed with his moves, but not body speed.
You mean Yujirou never trains?I believe yujirous training is beating the hell out of fighters , like baki said himself.
Experience ? Probaly they are almost equal , but Gouki is used to fighting guys like yujirou , but yujirou certainly is not used to fight someone who is able to do attacks based in ki like the hadouken.

Sigh, worng hoshi. Yujiro stopped tectonic plates from shifting in one punch. That's even more impresive than ayers rock. Gouki, was not born with any natural ability. He controls satsu no hadou because he chooses to follow the path of asura on his own. Yujiro doesn't have body speed, so, when yujiro performed his "Ogre Punch" on doppo and his upper body vanished that wasn't fast. Never mind that human eye's cannot register movements in fights of grappler baki series.

I never said he doesn't train, he just has natural talent and gains stregth for experience rather than training regiments. Finally, can people stop equating fireballs to strength, please. Hadouken is just an extension of physical ability, if it really was a big deal then gouki should be able to beat gen with no problem.

Darkstorm Zero
Originally posted by Emperor Ashtar
Finally, can people stop equating fireballs to strength, please. Hadouken is just an extension of physical ability, if it really was a big deal then gouki should be able to beat gen with no problem.

I addressed this in the Ryu vs Akira thread, Asthar, you have no proof of this... Ryu's blasts have taken down buildings, they work at range, and they have various effects not found in his regular attacks, such as immolation and electricity.

I reknew my call for proof.

Emperor Ashtar
Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero
I addressed this in the Ryu vs Akira thread, Asthar, you have no proof of this... Ryu's blasts have taken down buildings, they work at range, and they have various effects not found in his regular attacks, such as immolation and electricity.

I reknew my call for proof.

Maybe it's because of ryu's physical strength, and adding properties doesn't really change it's nature. Shinkuu hadouken is just a hadou with vacuum energy and denjin electric.





http://db.gamefaqs.com/coinop/arcade/file/street_fighter_plot.txt

Darkstorm Zero
Originally posted by Emperor Ashtar
Maybe it's because of ryu's physical strength, and adding properties doesn't really change it's nature. Shinkuu hadouken is just a hadou with vacuum energy and denjin electric.

That doesn't say it's the same as their physical statistics at all... you made stuff up as filler, I'm not going to swallow that.

AND, if Ryu is that strong or stronger, then why are you so adamant about tearing it down as an argument?

The Shinkuu Hadouken, Shankunetsu hadouken and Denjin hadouken would have to work on the exact same principal if you where true, And since when does ryu control vacuums and electricity on it's own? you have to be able to control those various energy types before you can add them to your attacks...

Emperor Ashtar
Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero
That doesn't say it's the same as their physical statistics at all... you made stuff up as filler, I'm not going to swallow that .

Added as a filler, so, despite the it mentioning their striking abilities as the descriptions for their respective projectiles, it's a filler?!


Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero

AND, if Ryu is that strong or stronger, then why are you so adamant about tearing it down as an argument?


When have I doubted his strength?


Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero

The Shinkuu Hadouken, Shankunetsu hadouken and Denjin hadouken would have to work on the exact same principal if you where true, And since when does ryu control vacuums and electricity on it's own? you have to be able to control those various energy types before you can add them to your attacks...

Shakunetsu is not a fire, its just a hot hadouken And what's so far fecthed about Ryu control those energy's indivdualy? Ken can channel fire but, ryu cannot channel electricity, please.

You are aware that in martial arts ki has priinciples based on elements, right?

Nevermind the various people able to channel elements in street fighter.

Darkstorm Zero
Originally posted by Emperor Ashtar
Added as a filler, so, despite the it mentioning their striking abilities as the descriptions it's a filler?!

Because unless you guage Ryu's kicks, it is killer... How strong a kick? what kick do you know of causes explosions?... the description is vague at best... Plus, Capcom has already stated that if Street fighter was ever made into an Animeby them, the Alpha Moves would be their closest representations of how they would do it, so the blowing up building, and the disintegration of Saddler is admissable, name one physical attack that does what Ryu's Hadouken did to him...

Originally posted by Emperor Ashtar
When have I doubted his stregth?

When you said that the Hadouken shouldn't be used as a marker for character strength, despite this not being the case

Originally posted by Emperor Ashtar
Shakunetsu is not a fire, its just a hot hadouken.And what's so far fecthed about ryu control those energy's indivdualy? Ken can channel fire but, ryu cannot channel electricity, please.

You are aware that in martial arts ki has priinciples based on elements, right?

Nevermind the various people being ablie to channel elements in street fighter.

Because you've now got Ryu controling 4 separate energy types, and outside of the Hadouken, they have never been shown... Other than the Hurricane Kick Super Art.

Are you aware that they are not actually CHANNELING the element, rather manipulating their Ki to form various effects, this demonstrates not only the poer, but the control that the characters have over their Ki?

Emperor Ashtar
Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero
Because unless you guage Ryu's kicks, it is killer... How strong a kick? what kick do you know of causes explosions?... the description is vague at best... Plus, Capcom has already stated that if Street fighter was ever made into an Animeby them, the Alpha Moves would be their closest representations of how they would do it, so the blowing up building, and the disintegration of Saddler is admissable, name one physical attack that does what Ryu's Hadouken did to him...
Blowing up a building, what are you talking about darkstorm? There was no real explosion, the building was just ripped apart by the force of the hadouken.There wasn't even any sign of a fire in that so called explosion and Sadlar was killed by evil ryu not ryu. When ryu performed a hadouken in a room at an interpol buildingg, despite the room being ripped apart there was no FIRE. So, it's not like a bomb if your implying that.


Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero

When you said that the Hadouken shouldn't be used as a marker for character strength, despite this not being the case

Quote me on that, I'm pretty sure I said that projectiles shouldn't be used as a marker for strength in a versus. Because people have a habit of assuming because a person is armed with a projectile he/her wins.


Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero

Because you've now got Ryu controling 4 separate energy types, and outside of the Hadouken, they have never been shown... Other than the Hurricane Kick Super Art.
Since when re move sets shown correctly in street fighter games? Cammy for instance controls psycho energy, Yet, the only game that displays this correctly is Marvel vs Capcom 2.

Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero

Are you aware that they are not actually CHANNELING the element, rather manipulating their Ki to form various effects, this demonstrates not only the poer, but the control that the characters have over their Ki?
Wrong, it's channeling, capcom has said that multiple times.

Darkstorm Zero
Originally posted by Emperor Ashtar
Blowing up a building, what are you talking about darkstorm? There was no real explosion, the building was just ripped apart by the force of the hadouken.There wasn't even any sign of a fire in that so called explosion and Sadlar was killed by evil ryu not ryu. When ryu performed a hadouken in a room at an interpol buildingg, despite the room being ripped apart there was no FIRE. So, it's not like a bomb if your implying that.

The smoke for one thing..., and even though there was no EXPLOSION perse, you see the shockwaves, you see the entire side of the building collapse, and you see the debris was everywhere, tell me an instance where you see a regular kick do this in the SF series...

Originally posted by Emperor Ashtar
Quote me on that, I'm pretty sure I said that projectiles shouldn't be used as a marker for strength in a versus. Because people have a habit of assuming because a person is armed with a projectile he/her wins.

So, you get to decide what people should and shouldn't use in a debate because you disagree with it? No Asthar, you'll need a better argument to get perfectly good evidence thrown out...

Originally posted by Emperor Ashtar
Since when re move sets shown correctly in street fighter games? Cammy for instance controls psycho energy, Yet, the only game that displays this correctly is Marvel vs Capcom 2.

Because if she can't control it, or summon it yet she can't use it...

Originally posted by Emperor Ashtar
Wrong, it's channeling, capcom has said that multiple times.

When and where, show me a source.. and if it points to Capcom of America, I am so going to be internet slapping you... :P

Emperor Ashtar
Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero
The smoke for one thing..., and even though there was no EXPLOSION perse, you see the shockwaves, you see the entire side of the building collapse, and you see the debris was everywhere, tell me an instance where you see a regular kick do this in the SF series...

So what, when Ryu punched sadlar with a straight punch there was shock waves as well as smoke. Infact the impact was so strong it shattered the floor below them.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AnEA0dtpiJ4

Nevermind that his strikes can rip clothes.

Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero

So, you get to decide what people should and shouldn't use in a debate because you disagree with it? No Asthar, you'll need a better argument to get perfectly good evidence thrown out...

When did I say that, what I said earlier has nothing to do with this argument. Infact can you even quote me instead of twisting what I said?

Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero

Because if she can't control it, or summon it yet she can't use it...

She can control it, all the dolls can and they do use it. It just isn't shown properly in alpha 3. Hell, bison sent vega to kill cammy because he was so worried.

She might not be able to channel it like bison but, she can use it.




Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero

When and where, show me a source.. and if it points to Capcom of America, I am so going to be internet slapping you... :P


Well, I can't prove ken channels fire But, if your description is correct can you get a source to verify it?

Darkstorm Zero
Originally posted by Emperor Ashtar
So what, when Ryu punched sadlar with a straight punch there was shock waves as well as smoke. Infact the impact was so strong it shattered the floor below them.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AnEA0dtpiJ4

Nevermind that his strikes can rip clothes.

Nowhere near the same level Asthar...

Originally posted by Emperor Ashtar
When did I say that, what I said earlier has nothing to do with this argument. Infact can you even quote me instead of twisting what I said?

Sure, i'll give you two:

Originally posted by Emperor Ashtar
Sigh, worng hoshi. Yujiro stopped tectonic plates from shifting in one punch. That's even more impresive than ayers rock. Gouki, was not born with any natural ability. He controls satsu no hadou because he chooses to follow the path of asura on his own. Yujiro doesn't have body speed, so, when yujiro performed his "Ogre Punch" on doppo and his upper body vanished that wasn't fast. Never mind that human eye's cannot register movements in fights of grappler baki series.

I never said he doesn't train, he just has natural talent and gains stregth for experience rather than training regiments. Finally, can people stop equating fireballs to strength, please. Hadouken is just an extension of physical ability, if it really was a big deal then gouki should be able to beat gen with no problem.

This one was from earlier this thread, you see the last sentence?

And this one:

Originally posted by Emperor Ashtar
Can people stop equating a character with a projectile stronger than without one.

From the Ryu vs Akira yuki thread.

Originally posted by Emperor Ashtar
She can control it, all the dolls can and they do use it. It just isn't shown properly in alpha 3. Hell, bison sent vega to kill cammy because he was so worried.

She controlled it in her Ending only, and even then it wan't complete, in fact, she was dying... Now there is a difference bitween partial control, and full control, and again,there's a difference bitween control, and summoning it.

Originally posted by Emperor Ashtar
Well, I can't prove ken channels fire But, if your description is correct can you get a source to verify it?

I have no need to, since it's not my job to prove a negative, but no, and since there's no proof either way... i guess we either debate till we reach an amicable agreement, or drop this particular argument for now.

Emperor Ashtar
Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero
Nowhere near the same level Asthar...

Why would it be, that was Satsu No Ryu that destroyed the building not regular ryu. Big difference in stregth dark storm.


Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero

Sure, i'll give you two:

And how am I downplaying the hadouken in that particular sentence?
Like I said, just because someone has a projectile =/= GOD like people keep posting because a projectile is an extension of their physical stats. You keep bringing up ryu destroying a building as some kind of evidence despite that was Satsu No Ryu.




Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero

And this one:
Stop twisting what I said, projectiles in game versus are constanly used as proof that someone is stronger than someone else.




Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero

She controlled it in her Ending only, and even then it wan't complete, in fact, she was dying... Now there is a difference bitween partial control, and full control, and again,there's a difference bitween control, and summoning it.

Wrong, cammy could control the psycho drive completely, that's why bison wanted her dead. If she had partial control why would bison say this:

And she wasn't dying from the psycho drive, the reasons why the dolls started dying was because they were reliant on bison without him they would die. Nevermind that was a hypothetical ending.


Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero

I have no need to, since it's not my job to prove a negative, but no, and since there's no proof either way... i guess we either debate till we reach an amicable agreement, or drop this particular argument for now.

Not, your job, you just give an explanation about how they form their ki into elements and provided no prooffor your argument and proceed to ask me for proof. So, then that claim you made is moot, your right, you can't prove a negative.

Darkstorm Zero
Originally posted by Emperor Ashtar
Why would it be, that was Satsu No Ryu that destroyed the building not regualr ryu.

Not the first shot..., and the Saddler killer blast wasn't Evil Ryu

Originally posted by Emperor Ashtar
And how am I downplaying the hadouken in that particular sentence?
Like I said, just because someone has a projectile =/= GOD like people keep posting because he a projectile is an extension of their physical stats. You keep bringing up ryu destroying a building as some kind of evidence despite that was Satsu No Ryu.

Who posted that?, I don't agree with that, but I also don't beleive in tossing out the Hadouken argument entirely because of fanboys...

Originally posted by Emperor Ashtar
And how am I downplaying people with projectiles?

already answered... you want to toss theprojectile argument entirely because fanboys frustrated you...

Originally posted by Emperor Ashtar
Wrong, cammy could control the psycho drive completely, that's why bison wanted her dead. If she had p

BZZZZZT! she wasn't aware of it, therefore she had no control over it... As her physical abilities developed, her powers started to show, but not manifest, Bison was concerned about the future of the drive...

I always find it strange how he never anticipated this...

Originally posted by Emperor Ashtar
Not, your job, you just give an explanation about how they form their ki into elements and provided no prooffor your argument and proceed to ask me for proof. So, then that claim you made is moot, your right, you can't prove a negative.

I offered an alternate theory.. you claimed fact, so I asked for evidence, don't shoot me for doing the same thing you did...

Emperor Ashtar
Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero
Not the first shot..., and the Saddler killer blast wasn't Evil Ryu

Which shot is beyond ryu's striking, the building destroying shot was done by dark ryu. And the one that killed sadldler was a shinkuu which has vacuum energy. Nevermind that ryu did a straight punch to saddler that destroyed a huge section of the floor and send shock waves traveling the ground. A shinkuu can have the force of multiple solid strikes from ryu, you never know. Gouki has enough striking power to sink an island (That's higher than any hadouken feat) So, it's not wrong to say a hadouken is an extension of striking power.


Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero

Who posted that?, I don't agree with that, but I also don't beleive in tossing out the Hadouken argument entirely because of fanboys...



already answered... you want to toss theprojectile argument entirely because fanboys frustrated you...

Where did I say to toss it out completely, I know projectiles give you an advantage. But, to say a character wins because he has a projectile is fanboyish. If you look at the post I made responses to you will see my point.


Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero

BZZZZZT! she wasn't aware of it, therefore she had no control over it... As her physical abilities developed, her powers started to show, but not manifest, Bison was concerned about the future of the drive...

I always find it strange how he never anticipated this...

She had control over it, infact she even healed all the dolls. If she had no control like you said she could not have done that darkstorm.




Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero

I offered an alternate theory.. you claimed fact, so I asked for evidence, don't shoot me for doing the same thing you did...

I'm shooting you done because your constantly asking for proof, despite not providing proof for your own theories.

Darkstorm Zero
Originally posted by Emperor Ashtar
Which shot is beyond ryu's striking, the building destroying shot was done by dark ryu. And the one that killed sadldler was a shinkuu which has vacuum energy. Nevermind that ryu did a straight punch to saddler that destroyed a huge section of the floor and send shock waves traveling the ground. A shinkuu can have the force of multiple solid strikes from ryu, you never know. Gouki has enough striking power to sink an island (That's higher than any hadouken feat) So, it's not wrong to say a hadouken is an extension of striking power.

Your using the 2nd energy scource argument to verify this argument, despite not having any evidence that Ryu has Vaccuume energy?

We'll get back to this later...

Originally posted by Emperor Ashtar
Where did I say to toss it out completely, I know projectiles give you an advantage. But, to say a character wins because he has a projectile is fanboyish. If you look at the post I made responses to you will see my point.

I'm getting sick of quoting parts that are in this very thread, on this very same page Asthar... Here:

Originally posted by Emperor Ashtar
Quote me on that, I'm pretty sure I said that projectiles shouldn't be used as a marker for strength in a versus. Because people have a habit of assuming because a person is armed with a projectile he/her wins.

Your pretty sure now? you've JUST said that you think the Hadouken shouldn't be used in a debate (staple on reason here) to throw it out because of SOME people's bad habbits...

Originally posted by Emperor Ashtar
She had control over it, infact she even healed all the dolls. If she had no control like you said she could not have done that darkstorm.

After Bison was dead, and after she was made aware of it... But it was not even starting to manifest at the time, in fact, she was dying...

Originally posted by Emperor Ashtar
I'm shooting you done because your constantly asking for proof, despite not providing proof for your own theories.

You did the exact same thing.... Don't be hypocritical.... I asked for proof because, unlike me, you claimed that Capcom stated it, and based on that claim, you tried to pass it off as fact, I called it, and you faultered... All I did, was offer an alternate theory, if you have a problem with that, then thats your problem.

EDIT: One more thing Asthar, i don't go CLAIMING fact without direct evidence to support it, because without evidence, all it is is a theory... and theories can be disproven.

Emperor Ashtar
Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero
Your using the 2nd energy scource argument to verify this argument, despite not having any evidence that Ryu has Vaccuume energy?

We'll get back to this later...


I got the vacuum energy from a win quote in double impact, Ignoring that. Your comparing shinkuu hadouken and satsu no ryu to regular ryu's hadouken, that decietful. Notice how you don't touch on the fact that Ryu punching saddler and causing the floor to cave in is beyond anything his regular hadouken is capable of in alpha the movie. If you wish to compare super arts let me point out that his shoryuken is possibly his strongest super art and it's not a projectile. So, again, can you show me ryu's hadouken surpassing his striking power without bringing in satsu no ryu and super arts?

Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero

I'm getting sick of quoting parts that are in this very thread, on this very same page Asthar... Here:

And I'm getting sick of you taking my quotes out of context, prior to that I explained what my point is.


Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero

Your pretty sure now? you've JUST said that you think the Hadouken shouldn't be used in a debate (staple on reason here) to throw it out because of SOME people's bad habbits...

Are you serious, I told you even before you quoted this what my point was:

Originally posted by Emperor Ashtar


Where did I say to toss it out completely, I know projectiles give you an advantage. But, to say a character wins because he has a projectile is fanboyish. If you look at the post I made responses to you will see my point.



Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero

After Bison was dead, and after she was made aware of it... But it was not even starting to manifest at the time, in fact, she was dying...

Bison died AFTER THE PSYCHO DRIVE BLEW UP So, how could she have control of it after he died?

She was dying, I don't remeber this. Infact the other dolls were dying not her. Of course she's not going to be aware of it, why would bison tell her right off the bat? Even if she did not know, Bison said that the psycho drive would explode if cammy went out of control.


Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero

You did the exact same thing.... Don't be hypocritical.... I asked for proof because, unlike me, you claimed that Capcom stated it, and based on that claim, you tried to pass it off as fact, I called it, and you faultered... All I did, was offer an alternate theory, if you have a problem with that, then thats your problem.

EDIT: One more thing Asthar, i don't go CLAIMING fact without direct evidence to support it, because without evidence, all it is is a theory... and theories can be disproven.

Wow, that's not even true, first of all I claimed it was channeling which you shot down when you said this:

Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero

Are you aware that they are not actually CHANNELING the element, rather manipulating their Ki to form various effects, this demonstrates not only the poer, but the control that the characters have over their Ki?

Now, it's a theory, where did you indicate it was a theory in that post?

Emperor Ashtar
Here's my vacuum energy evidence:



http://db.gamefaqs.com/coinop/arcade/file/street_fighter_3_second_impact_quotes.txt

Nevermind that shinkuu tranlates to empty air or vacuum.

Darkstorm Zero
Originally posted by Emperor Ashtar
I got the vacuum energy from a win quote in double impact, Ignoring that. Your comparing shinkuu hadouken and satsu no ryu to regular ryu's hadouken, that decietful. Notice how you don't touch on the fact that Ryu punching saddler and causing the floor to cave in is beyond anything his regular hadouken is capable of in alpha the movie. If you wish to compare super arts let me point out that his shoryuken is possibly his strongest super art and it's not a projectile. So, again, can you show me ryu's hadouken surpassing his striking power without bringing in satsu no ryu and super arts?

WTF are you on about now? His hadoukens caused blastmarks wherever it was used, same with any other projectile in the whole movie... his punches didn't blast the area by themselves Asthar...

Originally posted by Emperor Ashtar
And I'm getting sick of you taking my quotes out of context, prior to that I explained what my point is.

And yet you went farther than what you claimed your point was... you said the evidnece shouldn't be used, thats a broad statement Asthar, and I'm not a fanboy, if you can't explain it to me, then you'll have absolutely no hope of convincing them...

Originally posted by Emperor Ashtar
Are you serious, I told you even before you quoted this what my point was:

Already addressed...

Originally posted by Emperor Ashtar
Bison died AFTER THE PSYCHO DRIVE BLEW UP So, how could she have control of it after he died?

She was dying, I don't remeber this. Infact the other dolls were dying not her. Of course she's not going to be aware of it, why would bison tell her right off the bat? Even if she did not know, Bison said that the psycho drive would explode if cammy went out of control.

Her ending suggests she did this after his death... what are you going on?

Originally posted by Emperor Ashtar
Wow, that's not even true, first of all I claimed it was channeling which you shot down when you said this:

Now, it's a theory, where did you indicate it was a theory in that post?

And where in my post does it say I claimed my theory as fact? Can't find it? maybe because, unlike you, I never said them to be...

Emperor Ashtar
Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero
WTF are you on about now? His hadoukens caused blastmarks wherever it was used, same with any other projectile in the whole movie... his punches didn't blast the area by themselves Asthar...

Obviously you need to watch the movie again, his hadoukens never did such a thing. The most powerful impact that his hadou caused was the destruction of a small room at interpol headquaters that's it. His striking power surpassed that when he caused the ground to collapse from the force of a punch. Nevermind that before casuing the floor to collapse, he shot a hadouken straight at the ground which did nothing to it.


Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero

And yet you went farther than what you claimed your point was... you said the evidnece shouldn't be used, thats a broad statement Asthar, and I'm not a fanboy, if you can't explain it to me, then you'll have absolutely no hope of convincing them...
I wasn't even talking to you, or about this argument. I said projectiles shouldn't be used as the ONLY reason for a character to surpass another one. Why are you having such a fit over an argument that I elaborated to you already and wasn't addressed to you?





Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero

Her ending suggests she did this after his death... what are you going on?
Her ending is not even canon, unless you believe cammy can beat bison? The psycho drive blew up resulting in the all the psycho energy stored inside it to go to bison, blowing him up. What are you on?!


Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero

And where in my post does it say I claimed my theory as fact? Can't find it? maybe because, unlike you, I never said them to be...

So, when you told me I'm wrong and it's not channeling, you mean't theoretically, bs darkstorm.

Darkstorm Zero
Originally posted by Emperor Ashtar
Obviously you need to watch the movie again, his hadoukens never did such a thing. The most powerful impact that his hadou caused was the destruction of a small room at interpol headquaters that's it. His striking power surpassed that when he caused the ground to collapse from the force of a punch. Nevermind that before casuing the floor to collapse, he shot a hadouken straight at the ground which did nothing to it.

Heh, righto... You think of it however you like then, I'm not waiisting another day in a ciorcular debate...

Originally posted by Emperor Ashtar
I wasn't even talking to you, or about this argument. I said projectiles shouldn't be used as the ONLY reason for a character to surpass another one. Why are you having such a fit over an argument that I elaborated to you already and wasn't addressed to you?

So, because it wasn't addressed to me, I cannot answer it, even though this is a public forum? And i agree, the Projectile argument should never be the sole reason for determining a characters victory, but you never said that till now, thats why I was starting to interject, because I disagreed with that

Originally posted by Emperor Ashtar
Her ending is not even canon, unless you believe cammy can beat bison? The psycho drive blew up resulting in the all the psycho energy stored inside it to go to bison, blowing him up. What are you on?!

Her taking over the Psycho Drive was still after Bison's Death, unless you beleive her limited mental will at that time could overpower Bison's will. I don't... And wasn't Charlie the one responsable for blowing up the Drive, not Cammy?

Originally posted by Emperor Ashtar
So, when you told me I'm wrong and it's not channeling, you mean't theoretically, bs darkstorm.

If you think so, but your assuming I meant fact, whereas I merely challenged one theory with another, you see... I never beleived that SF was ever based on Magical summoning properties, it ceased being one theory against another when you claimed FACT, I asked for proof of this FACT, and you faultered...

Don't go calling what I did BS Asthar, not when you actually made the claim and failed to back it up... mad

Emperor Ashtar
Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero
Heh, righto... You think of it however you like then, I'm not waiisting another day in a ciorcular debate...


It's not a circular debate, your just being a hard head. I offered you Proof That his striking power surpasses his hadouken, yet, your so fixated on your idea you refuse to listen. He never created blast craters with his hadouken. I gave you an example an you ignored it.That's not on me pal.


Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero

So, because it wasn't addressed to me, I cannot answer it, even though this is a public forum? And i agree, the Projectile argument should never be the sole reason for determining a characters victory, but you never said that till now, thats why I was starting to interject, because I disagreed with that

I elaborated it you several times, yet, your having such a ***** fit you wouldn't accept it. Stop taking a line out of context, nevermind that I told you what I meant.your obviously playing devils advocate and your debating this point for the sake of argument.



Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero

Her taking over the Psycho Drive was still after Bison's Death, unless you beleive her limited mental will at that time could overpower Bison's will. I don't... And wasn't Charlie the one responsable for blowing up the Drive, not Cammy?

Sigh, darkstorm, charlie blew up the psycho drive with bison.Charlie bison, and the psycho drive were destroyed at the same time. So, how can she operate it after bisons death if it was destroyed withy bison and charlie?



Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero

If you think so, but your assuming I meant fact, whereas I merely challenged one theory with another, you see... I never beleived that SF was ever based on Magical summoning properties, it ceased being one theory against another when you claimed FACT, I asked for proof of this FACT, and you faultered...

Don't go calling what I did BS Asthar, not when you actually made the claim and failed to back it up... mad

Like I said, Bullshit, you never claimed your alternative explaination was a theory. You corrected my mistake and offered your. I said this:

Originally posted by Emperor Ashtar


You are aware that in martial arts ki has priinciples based on elements, right?

Nevermind the various people able to channel elements in street fighter.

I was wrong about the channeling aspect, even though there are street fighters that can channel elements I.E. blanka. But, ken and ryu aren't the case.

This is how you responded:

Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero


Are you aware that they are not actually CHANNELING the element, rather manipulating their Ki to form various effects, this demonstrates not only the poer, but the control that the characters have over their Ki?

You corrected me with your own explanation, where does it say it's your theory? Maybe, if you said "I Think" or "Possibly" I would assume you were formulating a hypoythesis. You did neither, so, stop being a hypocrite. I was wrong about implying that channeling was a fact, I admitt that. But, your response is no different, and implys the same thing.

Hoshi
emperor, could you please say one single element that yujirous has the upper hand against akuma?
You said that stopping the earthquake was more impressive than destroying the ayers rock? Well , since ayers rock is the biggest rock in all world , and japans soil is between tectonics and is not very resistant like brasil soil ...
I never said yujirou wasnt fast , but his sprint time must be what? 100 m in 8 seconds? Akumas probaly is like 100m in less than one second , since he travelled from his island to japan in some seconds.
Fire power you are yet to give me anthing that yujirou has ever done that is as impressive as destroying a battleship with one attack.

Emperor Ashtar
Originally posted by Hoshi
emperor, could you please say one single element that yujirous has the upper hand against akuma?
You said that stopping the earthquake was more impressive than destroying the ayers rock? Well , since ayers rock is the biggest rock in all world , and japans soil is between tectonics and is not very resistant like brasil soil ...

True, but ayers rock is in australia. Yujiro could copy gouki's techniques,easily.

Originally posted by Hoshi

I never said yujirou wasnt fast , but his sprint time must be what? 100 m in 8 seconds? Akumas probaly is like 100m in less than one second , since he travelled from his island to japan in some seconds.
Fire power you are yet to give me anthing that yujirou has ever done that is as impressive as destroying a battleship with one attack.

Yujiro defeated a dinosaur sized elephant, and I'm sure he could destroy a battle ship if he wanted too. Speck was strong enough to destroy the steel frame of the statue of liberty. Yujiro is much more powerful then him, so, imagine what he could do. Wai till the manga progresses.

Hoshi
what do you mean that yujirou could copy goukis abilities?You cant assume that only because you consider him able to do it , goukis ki is much more developed than yujirous. A batleship sure is tougher than a part of the liberty statue.You cant say yujirou COULD destroy if he never did , you are assuming since he is yet the strongest character in grappler baki.
Even balrog killed an elephant with a punch

Emperor Ashtar
Originally posted by Hoshi
what do you mean that yujirou could copy goukis abilities?You cant assume that only because you consider him able to do it , goukis ki is much more developed than yujirous. A batleship sure is tougher than a part of the liberty statue.You cant say yujirou COULD destroy if he never did , you are assuming since he is yet the strongest character in grappler baki.
Even balrog killed an elephant with a punch

Balrog, killed a regular sized elephant, yujiro killed a Dinosaur sized elephant, Big diiference.

You, don't think yujiro can destroy a battle ship, remember when yujiro sliced a section of the hallway in the underground arena which resulted in half of the arena sanking into the ground. You don't think he can destroy a sunken battleship after doing that. Yujiro's ki is very high, nevernind he's not human.

Hoshi
of course yujirou is a human being , he has some demon/ogre thing in him , but he is a human, he may have surpassed human limits(of couree he did ).Just like gouki has the bloodline of the dark hadou /satsui no hadou .
Yujirou killed a dinossaur sized elephant?true, but it was balrog , a very weak street fighter character in comparisson to akuma who is probaly the strongest.
Which proof you have that yujirous ki is high? i never saw him powering himself like akuma does , the ogre thing maybe similar to akuma powering when in shin mode, but sure is weaker.
Grappler baki is completely different from sf universe , it is totally different levels.Lets catch a boxer from grappler baki for example , Ian Mcgregor(i dont remember his name completely) , he was the world heavyweight champion , but he couldnt finish someone weaker and less resistant than him with many of his strongest punchs , even I was better prepared phisically than the taishou of the motorcycle gang .M Bison/Balrog won his match against the former heavyweight champion with a single punch in 7 seconds.Garand , the pro wrestler couldnt kill an anaconda with his suplex , zangief killed kodiacs with his bare hands just to train a little, . All the womans in grappler bakis universe were a bunch of trash who couldnt even throw a decent punch , in sf universe chun li could knock out easily a heavyweight champion.The sf characters are suported by ki a lot, grappler baki is suported in its majority by tech and phisical power.

I still dont get how do you think yujirou would win this fight.

Emperor Ashtar
Originally posted by Hoshi
of course yujirou is a human being , he has some demon/ogre thing in him , but he is a human, he may have surpassed human limits(of couree he did ).Just like gouki has the bloodline of the dark hadou /satsui no hadou .

Gouki, doesn't have satsu no hadou in his bloodline. Yuor getting it confused, yujiro was never born a human, humans aren't born with fangs. Gouki surpassed human limits.


Originally posted by Hoshi

Yujirou killed a dinossaur sized elephant?true, but it was balrog , a very weak street fighter character in comparisson to akuma who is probaly the strongest.

Balrog is one of the strongest street fighter, and has the worlds strongest punch.

Originally posted by Hoshi

Which proof you have that yujirous ki is high? i never saw him powering himself like akuma does , the ogre thing maybe similar to akuma powering when in shin mode, but sure is weaker.

Ki is energy dude, and just becaus eit isn't visible doesn't mean it's not there. Also, you've never seen yujiro power up? Dude, he cause things to twist when he powers up.


Originally posted by Hoshi

Grappler baki is completely different from sf universe , it is totally different levels.Lets catch a boxer from grappler baki for example , Ian Mcgregor(i dont remember his name completely) , he was the world heavyweight champion , but he couldnt finish someone weaker and less resistant than him with many of his strongest punchs , even I was better prepared phisically than the taishou of the motorcycle gang .M Bison/Balrog won his match against the former heavyweight champion with a single punch in 7 seconds.Garand , the pro wrestler couldnt kill an anaconda with his suplex , zangief killed kodiacs with his bare hands just to train a little, . All the womans in grappler bakis universe were a bunch of trash who couldnt even throw a decent punch , in sf universe chun li could knock out easily a heavyweight champion.The sf characters are suported by ki a lot, grappler baki is suported in its majority by tech and phisical power.

I still dont get how do you think yujirou would win this fight.
First of all you used weak characters as examples, Mcgregor,c'mon.
Here are some feats

-Hanayama's vice grip can exceed a dynamator
-Speck survived 200 meters underwater
-Speck destroyed the steel frame of the statue of liberty almost destroying it.
-Oliver twisted a steel door just by turning the knob too hard
-Oliver survived multiple shots from a "Shot Gun" at close range, the bullets barely peirced his skin
-A Kaihou punched a tunnel throught the abse of a moutain.
-Andrew garlon carved that huge deep crater in one year only (You know which one I'm talking about)
-Yujiro stopped an earthquake by punching it
-Retsu ran on water
-Doyle survived the electric chair with ease

Stop nitpicking, they are comparable.

Hoshi
in first place , oliver was wearing a bulletproof armor , second ,of course hanayamas grip could be measured by the dynamator , you can see that the one they used to measure had as its maximum capacity 100kg . Speck almost destroyed the steel frame of the statue with countless punchs, he couldnt do it with just one or two , he had to make his favorite combo which he himself called the apnea rush.The kaioh who punched a tunnel though a mountain didnt do that with a single punch, but with lots of time punching and kicking it .Doyle survived the chair easily , then why were his eyes bleeding??His mind and senses as you already know are in total control , possibiliting him surviving that thing , he didnt do it by toughness alone.Baki was knocked out cold by yanagi the poisoner , and the only power he really has is creating some vavuum in his hands , and shinkuu hadouken if I remember well has vacuum in it , meaning it is damn stronger than the power that knocked baki , one of the toughest characters in grappler baki.

Emperor Ashtar
Originally posted by Hoshi
in first place , oliver was wearing a bulletproof armor , second ,of course hanayamas grip could be measured by the dynamator , you can see that the one they used to measure had as its maximum capacity 100kg . Speck almost destroyed the steel frame of the statue with countless punchs, he couldnt do it with just one or two , he had to make his favorite combo which he himself called the apnea rush.The kaioh who punched a tunnel though a mountain didnt do that with a single punch, but with lots of time punching and kicking it .Doyle survived the chair easily , then why were his eyes bleeding??His mind and senses as you already know are in total control , possibiliting him surviving that thing , he didnt do it by toughness alone.Baki was knocked out cold by yanagi the poisoner , and the only power he really has is creating some vavuum in his hands , and shinkuu hadouken if I remember well has vacuum in it , meaning it is damn stronger than the power that knocked baki , one of the toughest characters in grappler baki.

1. Oliver did not have any armor, the fact you said that makes me question you read baki. He was stark naked when he was shoot. Oliver can never be puntured, the most you can do is cut his skin and draw blood. You can't cut into his muscle or impale him.

2. No, the cop said hanayama's"Vice Grip" Can't be measured with a dynameter.

3. Speck Destroyed the steel frame, and the statue almost fall apart before it was fixed just in time.

4.Yanagi ripped a specially made glass all that was capable of rebounding a shot from a rocket laucher. And when baki used his ogre power he beat the holy hell out of yanagi

5.Kaioh punching a tunnel through a mountain is still a huge feat.

Hoshi
sorry , i misunderstand oliver with other character , anyway , if you want to read grappler baki until the 6 book with english subtitles go to point blank tracker ,http://www.point-blank.cc:7001/index.html?page=6
than search for baki. the dynamometer of the cops goes at maximum of 100 kg

Emperor Ashtar
Thanks, But, I already have it. also, I found a translation site which I use for the other books. That's where I found out what's happening in son of the ogre. The person who had a bullet proof vest was slosky, the russian convict.

Hoshi
Emperor , i kno what you want to mean when you say GB and SF characters are comparable .But lets get 4 of the strongest(i know there are stronger characters) from grappler baki :Hanayama Kaouro , Shibukawa Gouki(My favorite character) , Oli the dark arrow , , orochi doppo. Now , lets get 4 of the strongest SF characters : Urien , Gill , Oro , , Vega/M Bison . Although shibukawa is a badass , the only real thing he does is attack the weak points of the human body, his great experience(60 YEARS) and borrow the enemy force due to his weak body(even i can beat him in a power struggle) , oro on the other side has a phisically weak body , but he is still able to lift huge rocks that even hanayama would have difficulties, he also has 140 years of experience more than 2 times shibukawas(in my opnion) greatest weapon . Oli , the guy who can take knifes and bullets in his body , a damn strong guy , but urien is like steel , he can even resist lava(i doubt oli can take that !) . Hanayama kaouro , with his grip is a hard opponent , but he has difficulties in destroying a single car , he takes lots of time to do it , bison would literally levitate the car and explode it.Orochi doppo , with his killing fists , a worth opponent , but he is too "human" , I never saw doppo doing anything too abnormal , nothing too impressive , but he still gave yujirou a run for his money , gill on the other hand is everything but human, the guy controls fire and ice , his seraph wing attack is and invisible force that can attack anywhere you are and with an incredible force, powerfull enough to surpass goukis shun goku satsu in powers terms , and can still ressurect once in a fight !!
GB and SF may look comparable , but when it comes down for the big feats they lose , and badly

Emperor Ashtar
Originally posted by Hoshi
Emperor , i kno what you want to mean when you say GB and SF characters are comparable .But lets get 4 of the strongest(i know there are stronger characters) from grappler baki :Hanayama Kaouro , Shibukawa Gouki(My favorite character) , Oli the dark arrow , , orochi doppo.

Why is hanayama there, he lost to Katsumi Orochi FFS.


Originally posted by Hoshi

Now , lets get 4 of the strongest SF characters : Urien , Gill , Oro , , Vega/M Bison .

Your comparing God tier Street Fighters to Mid & Lower Mid Tier "Grappler Baki" characters. The only one that's comparable is Oliva, and we haven't seen his full power.



Originally posted by Hoshi


Although shibukawa is a badass , the only real thing he does is attack the weak points of the human body, his great experience(60 YEARS) and borrow the enemy force due to his weak body(even i can beat him in a power struggle) , oro on the other side has a phisically weak body , but he is still able to lift huge rocks that even hanayama would have difficulties, he also has 140 years of experience more than 2 times shibukawas(in my opnion) greatest weapon

C'mon Hoshi, your comparing Shichubukawa Gouki to Oro, Compare Kaku KaiO or Someone else to Oro.Anyway, Oro is a Senin (Saint) He Trained as a hermit for 80 years straight and Hasn't trained hard for 50 years. He invented his own fighting principle, that he and he only can master let alone learn. Shichubukawa on the other hand has not become a senin/saint yet. He was indicated to be close according to Matsubi (I don't remeber if that's his name exactly). Shichubukawa is very strong, he overpowered oliver and twisted his arm as wlell. But, oliver wasn't serious. I think he can give gen a fight, but not gouki.


Originally posted by Hoshi

. Oli , the guy who can take knifes and bullets in his body , a damn strong guy , but urien is like steel , he can even resist lava(i doubt oli can take that !) .

What does taking lava have to do with winning a fight? Ryu, can't take lava, But he's ranked higher than urien.


Originally posted by Hoshi

Hanayama kaouro , with his grip is a hard opponent , but he has difficulties in destroying a single car , he takes lots of time to do it , bison would literally levitate the car and explode it.

I can't believe your comparing hanayama to bison, Hanayama is not that strong.



Originally posted by Hoshi

Orochi doppo , with his killing fists , a worth opponent , but he is too "human" , I never saw doppo doing anything too abnormal , nothing too impressive , but he still gave yujirou a run for his money , gill on the other hand is everything but human, the guy controls fire and ice , his seraph wing attack is and invisible force that can attack anywhere you are and with an incredible force, powerfull enough to surpass goukis shun goku satsu in powers terms , and can still ressurect once in a fight !!
GB and SF may look comparable , but when it comes down for the big feats they lose , and badly

Since when can regular humans kill a tiger, cut a titanium wire, defend against streams of fire and have punches that can't even be dodged?

Doppo hurt yujiro, as soon as yujiro got serious it was over.Doppo is a beats, your underestimating him. Must I list his techniqes?

Remulous
Originally posted by Emperor Ashtar
capcom has stated that vampire svaiors weakest characters can destroy street fighter s strongest. Time and tiome again capcom has established that they are not in the same league.

I dunno if dante versus jedah would work, seems like another mismatch. Although Talbain is in my top 10 favs I don't think he can beat Ryu although there is no proof Ryu can beat him. The Dante Vs Jedah, who's suposed to win that?

Emperor Ashtar
Originally posted by Remulous
Although Talbain is in my top 10 favs I don't think he can beat Ryu although there is no proof Ryu can beat him. The Dante Vs Jedah, who's suposed to win that?
Darkstalkers and street fighters aren't comparable.

Remulous
I agree that they aint comparable but just because a games strongest character can wipe out another games entire cast doesn't mean that one of the games weakest characters can crush all characters, especialy the main character. DS characters have very different power levels, that's like saying Felicia can beat Gouki because Pyron can wipe out everyone in SF at the same time.

Emperor Ashtar
Originally posted by Remulous
I agree that they aint comparable but just because a games strongest character can wipe out another games entire cast doesn't mean that one of the games weakest characters can crush all characters, especialy the main character. DS characters have very different power levels, that's like saying Felicia can beat Gouki because Pyron can wipe out everyone in SF at the same time.

Actually the waekest darkstalkers can wipeout the strongest street fighters. this has been said, darkstalkers defy the laws of physics completelty. Just living in makia world is a feat.

Remulous
Originally posted by Emperor Ashtar
Actually the waekest darkstalkers can wipeout the strongest street fighters. this has been said, darkstalkers defy the laws of physics completelty. Just living in makia world is a feat. Still, how in the hell is Talbain gonna beat Ryu.

Emperor Ashtar
Have you seen talibans moves?

Remulous
Yeah, they are bigger but it's not like MVC vs SFA. Dimitri's moves are smaller than Talbain's and are equivalent to Ryu's in terms of in game animations yet Dimitri will crush Talbain.

Emperor Ashtar
Size of animations is not equal to power or ability, Vampire savior characters have more feats, attacks, abilities, and have been stated to be stronger than street fighters. Taliban would rip Ryu a new one.

Remulous
So then, all I wanna know is how?

Emperor Ashtar
Originally posted by Remulous
So then, all I wanna know is how?

Have you played a vampire savior game, you want me to link you to a video and plot guide?

Remulous
What are his feats? I have every version of DS there is and I see nothing that takes him out of Felicia's level. I do agree that DS far outclasses SF and most other fighters but c'mon Talbain completly slaughtering Ryu?! I could understand if you said Dimitri or Pyron but Talbain? Bty Jedah, Morrigan, Talbain are tied for my most favorite DS.

Emperor Ashtar
Originally posted by Remulous
What are his feats? I have every version of DS there is and I see nothing that takes him out of Felicia's level. I do agree that DS far outclasses SF and most other fighters but c'mon Talbain completly slaughtering Ryu?! I could understand if you said Dimitri or Pyron but Talbain? Bty Jedah, Morrigan, Talbain are tied for my most favorite DS.
Wow, you serious, so besides the fact that his movelist surpasses anything ryu has demonstrated. Your claiming ryu can take him?

Remulous
Movelist? The number of moves you have doesn't make you good, it's how you use the the ones you got.

Emperor Ashtar
Originally posted by Remulous
Movelist? The number of moves you have doesn't make you good, it's how you use the the ones you got.
Here's the basic power of a Vampire Savior









http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a1WsaNjnjlU



So, just by being in his presence, Ryu is in a disadvantage. Nevermind that a C class darkstalker can kill an army. Jon Taliban is a warrior of makai so that makes him B Class. Not, to mention they can defy the laws of physics by fighting vertically up walls. So, how does ryu win?

EDIT: I didn't say his movelist, I said his abilities.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a1WsaNjnjlU

And this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VvsmrACc0-8

Remulous
Originally posted by Emperor Ashtar
Here's the basic power of a Vampire Savior









http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a1WsaNjnjlU



So, just by being in his presence, Ryu is in a disadvantage. Nevermind that a C class darkstalker can kill an army. Jon Taliban is a warrior of makai so that makes him B Class. Not, to mention they can defy the laws of physics by fighting vertically up walls. So, how does ryu win?

EDIT: I didn't say his movelist, I said his abilities.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a1WsaNjnjlU

And this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VvsmrACc0-8 Where did you get such info, I have never seen Talbain destroy an army, in fact I've seen him get beat up by a gang of armed humans and avoid being hurt by guns and bombs as if he got hit it would kill him. Now I've seen Ryu pretty much destroy a building.

The videos were awesome but they proove nothing Ryu has instant kill combos in 2nd impact and 3rd Strike.

Emperor Ashtar
Originally posted by Remulous
Where did you get such info, I have never seen Talbain destroy an army, in fact I've seen him get beat up by a gang of armed humans and avoid being hurt by guns and bombs as if he got hit it would kill him. Now I've seen Ryu pretty much destroy a building.

The videos were awesome but they proove nothing Ryu has instant kill combos in 2nd impact and 3rd Strike.

What, are you kidding me? If you saw that in the darkstalkers movie (Which you most likely did) then guess what, it's not canon. Ryu didn't destroy the entire building, It was already beaten and battered. His hadouken just crushed it in half. Also, what instant kill does ryu have? The Shin-shoryu-Ken has the potential to kill, but it doesn't. And I just showed you a video of Jon Taliban cutting morrigan and Lei Lei in half with on hand!

Here's more moves from Jon Taliban http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o3OMh8njleE&mode=related&search=

Remulous
Originally posted by Emperor Ashtar
What, are you kidding me? If you saw that in the darkstalkers movie (Which you most likely did) then guess what, it's not canon. Ryu didn't destroy the entire building, It was already beaten and battered. His hadouken just crushed it in half. Also, what instant kill does ryu have? The Shin-shoryu-Ken has the potential to kill, but it doesn't. And I just showed you a video of Jon Taliban cutting morrigan and Lei Lei in half with on hand!

Here's more moves from Jon Taliban http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o3OMh8njleE&mode=related&search= Once again nice vid. Now all of a sudden the DS OVAs aint cannon. Ryu did a hole lot of damage with just 1 Hadouken. I'm pretty sure YouTube will have some Ryu combos some where on it that shows him killing some one with nonstop attacks. Just becuase he cut a characters in game doesn't mean he can do it in a real fight. Dan can pick up Juggernaught and throw him in the game, so I geuss in a real fight Jugg better watch his ass.

Emperor Ashtar
Originally posted by Remulous
Now all of a sudden the DS OVAs aint cannon.
When was it confirmed by canon and by who, please link me to a source. Because I have a source with lots of refrences saying that it isn't.


Originally posted by Remulous

Ryu did a hole lot of damage with just 1 Hadouken. I'm pretty sure YouTube will have some Ryu combos some where on it that shows him killing some one with nonstop attacks.

That isn't my point, ryu doesn't cut people in half with one hand or ricochet them across the screen DBZ style.

Remulous
I edited my previous post

Once again nice vid. Now all of a sudden the DS OVAs aint cannon. Ryu did a hole lot of damage with just 1 Hadouken. I'm pretty sure YouTube will have some Ryu combos some where on it that shows him killing some one with nonstop attacks. Just becuase he cut a characters in game doesn't mean he can do it in a real fight. Dan can pick up Juggernaught and throw him in the game, so I geuss in a real fight Jugg better watch his ass.

Emperor Ashtar
Originally posted by Remulous
I edited my previous post

Once again nice vid. Now all of a sudden the DS OVAs aint cannon. Ryu did a hole lot of damage with just 1 Hadouken. I'm pretty sure YouTube will have some Ryu combos some where on it that shows him killing some one with nonstop attacks. Just becuase he cut a characters in game doesn't mean he can do it in a real fight. Dan can pick up Juggernaught and throw him in the game, so I geuss in a real fight Jugg better watch his ass.

Talk about twisted logic, Unless, his feats contradict the canon or is inconsistent. then it's usable, going by that logic gouki shungokusatsu isn't an instant kill because it doesn't show it in the game.

-Again, The building was batterd already, and it took two hadoukens not one.

shin_remy
Gouki's feats are better then that of yujiro hanma and i agree with hoshi and darkstorm

Remulous
Originally posted by Emperor Ashtar
Talk about twisted logic, Unless, his feats contradict the canon or is inconsistent. then it's usable, going by that logic gouki shungokusatsu isn't an instant kill because it doesn't show it in the game.

-Again, The building was batterd already, and it took two hadoukens not one. Dude you think what you want and I will do the same. I refuse to believe that just becuase Talbaine is in DarkStalkers he can beat SF becuase if you can beat Ryu than you can just about beat everyone else too. It's like saying that Gregory the cricket can beat Terry Bogard because he is in DBZ and lives on th Kai planet where gravity is extremly intense.

Remulous
Can some one make a Dante(Devil May Cry) VS Jedah (DarkStalkers) thread? That would be a cool fight, possibly.

Emperor Ashtar
Originally posted by Remulous
Dude you think what you want and I will do the same. I refuse to believe that just becuase Talbaine is in DarkStalkers he can beat SF becuase if you can beat Ryu than you can just about beat everyone else too. It's like saying that Gregory the cricket can beat Terry Bogard because he is in DBZ and lives on th Kai planet where gravity is extremly intense.

Actually, I gave you detailed reasons which you ignored.

Remulous
Originally posted by Emperor Ashtar
Actually, I gave you detailed reasons which you ignored. I did not ignore it. But how in the hell do those feats equate to beating Ryu? None of those are physical feats of him actual doing any thing. You mean to tell me that in the DS universe Ryu would be below Class C?

quote:
To fight against these creatures,
having a fit body, martial arts skills and fire arms are not enough. It is
possible for a class C creature to kill an entire army of first class elite
soldiers.

So what do you need? Talbaine seems to be extremly simillar Ryu exept for the fact that he's a ware wolf.

quote:
A strong mind/spirit is needed to keep one self from losing their
own sanity is needed.

So Talbain has that yet Ryu doesn't, even thoe Ryu expeled his dark side the same way Talbain did.

quote:
And a dark heart is needed so that they are not poisoned
with the aura that the creatures give off.

I don't think that those l creatures will effect Ryu with their aura, Ryu has an extremly strong mind and spirit. Even if the aura does work Ryu wont die he'll just turn into Dark Ryu.I find it strange that Talbain defeated his dark side yet he was uneffected by the atmosphere of Makai.

quote:
So, just by being in his presence, Ryu is in a disadvantage. Nevermind that a C class darkstalker can kill an army. Jon Taliban is a warrior of makai so that makes him B Class. Not, to mention they can defy the laws of physics by fighting vertically up walls. So, how does ryu win?

I don't think so. Talbain a B class? His fathers side of the family were wariors of Makai, not him. You cant just assume his class, he never even fought for Makai. Talbain is in the human world now. He doesn't even posses a dark poisoness arua, which is why he can enteract with humans with out them dying. In fact Talbain never had an aura, he's a half breed, not a full darkstalker. He wasn't even born in Makai, he was born in the human world in England. So how is it a being foreign to Makai can enter it with no problem, Talbain, yet Ryu can't and they both have strong minds and spirits and a darker side? And Ryu can basicly climb verticliy up walls as well, also climbing verticly up wall is definently not a huge advantage, especialy since Ryu can through balls of destructive chi.

Emperor Ashtar
Originally posted by Remulous
I did not ignore it. But how in the hell do those feats equate to beating Ryu? None of those are physical feats of him actual doing any thing. You mean to tell me that in the DS universe Ryu would be below Class C?
Yeah. . .

Originally posted by Remulous

quote:
To fight against these creatures,
having a fit body, martial arts skills and fire arms are not enough. It is
possible for a class C creature to kill an entire army of first class elite
soldiers.

So what do you need? Talbaine seems to be extremly simillar Ryu exept for the fact that he's a ware wolf.

The fact he's a darkstalker gives him a massive advantage
Originally posted by Remulous


quote:
A strong mind/spirit is needed to keep one self from losing their
own sanity is needed.

So Talbain has that yet Ryu doesn't, even thoe Ryu expeled his dark side the same way Talbain did..
Is ryu a darkstalker?


Originally posted by Remulous


quote:
And a dark heart is needed so that they are not poisoned
with the aura that the creatures give off.


I don't think that those l creatures will effect Ryu with their aura, Ryu has an extremly strong mind and spirit. Even if the aura does work Ryu wont die he'll just turn into Dark Ryu.I find it strange that Talbain defeated his dark side yet he was uneffected by the atmosphere of Makai.
Taliba, did not defeat his darkside, and what evidence can you offer showing me that ryu would transform into his dark side?

Remulous
Originally posted by Emperor Ashtar
The fact he's a darkstalker gives him a massive advantage

The fact that Ryu is a human in the human world is an advantage.

Originally posted by Emperor Ashtar
Is ryu a darkstalker?

No, but is Talbaine a human?



Originally posted by Emperor Ashtar
Taliba, did not defeat his darkside, and what evidence can you offer
showing me that ryu would transform into his dark side?

So then who was Talbain's boss in DarkStalkers 3, in fact he was the only 1 in that game that didnt't have to fight Jedah. He fought a weird glowing evil version of himself. Also, what proof do you have that Ryu wont turn into Dark Ryu, it seems to me that when ever Ryu is subjected to darkness or intense negative power he transforms using the Satsui No Hadou.

Emperor Ashtar
Originally posted by Remulous
The fact that Ryu is a human in the human world is an advantage.
no, it's not.


Originally posted by Remulous

No, but is Talbaine a human?
He's half human, but his darkside took over.





Originally posted by Remulous

So then who was Talbain's boss in DarkStalkers 3, in fact he was the only 1 in that game that didnt't have to fight Jedah. He fought a weird glowing evil version of himself.

He was in 2 games, not 1.


Originally posted by Remulous

Also, what proof do you have that Ryu wont turn into Dark Ryu, it seems to me that when ever Ryu is subjected to darkness or intense negative power he transforms using the Satsui No Hadou.

No, he doesn't, and I don't have to prove anything. you made a claim, you offer proof. I can't prove a negative.

devilking666
You know you guys argue alot about proff of this and proff of that, Here is my oppinoin since this is the gouki vs Hanma topic we stick to that.
I havent read the manga because i cant seem to download it anywhere but i saw the anime both of them and here is my oppinion because that is all I have.
Hanma has a darkness inside of him that and the fact he has huge amount of strength. Gouki has a huge amont of manifested chi energy and is capable of fighting toe to toe with someone the caliber of hanma without using his full strength i mean look at his battle with gen he never transfored to shin akuma witch is his true form and they fought to a stand still in there first incounter. and the same with oro while oro had his hand tied.
the parallel is hanma and orochi fought with orochi having the upperhand till hanma unlished his ogre power.
this makes it seem like hanma with his ogre power would fight to a stand still with gouki, and with gouki becoming shin aka true gouki he would beat hanma but possibly kill him because he would face him at his strongest and beat him meaning he was a worth opponent but must die, like his quate to lose is to give up on living.

Remulous
Originally posted by Emperor Ashtar
no, it's not. Yes it is, DarkStalkers are Weaker outside of Makai, humans are not.



Originally posted by Emperor Ashtar
He's half human, but his darkside took over.Doesn't matter, he's not hole human and does not posses the best of both worlds.







Originally posted by Emperor Ashtar
He was in 2 games, not 1. Who was in 2 games?




Originally posted by Emperor Ashtar
No, he doesn't, and I don't have to prove anything. you made a claim, you offer proof. I can't prove a negative. Yes he does and you made claim that my claim is incorrect, if you feel that you don't have to prove anything, neither will I. This has gone on long enough and has nothing to do with this thread.

Emperor Ashtar
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