The Strength Feat! Who can do what?

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Soujaboy
At base strength, based off feats, which of the characters below could accomplish these strength feats. Who could and couldn't cut it?

Superman, Wonder Woman, Thor, Beta ray Bill, Hercules, Gladiator, Sentry, Hyperion, Wonder Man, Classic Juggernaut, Captain Marvel(Billy), Black Adam.

1. Lift a skyscraper

2. Lift or brace a mountain

3. Drag the island of Manhattan

4. Move the Moon

5. Force a planet out of Orbit

6. Destroy a planet with brute strength

7. Lift The Midgard Serpent

8. Hold a black hole



Who makes it through, who stops where?

Howard_Jones
Scientific black hole or Comic Book black hole?

Soujaboy
Originally posted by Howard_Jones
Scientific black hole or Comic Book black hole?

A scientific black hole.

LordFear
scientific black hole, than only God ALMIGHTY CAN PERFORM THAT little trick.

Howard_Jones
Yeah, scientific black hole is impossible.

masterbruce
anything after 2 is pretty much an impossibility

Howard_Jones
Originally posted by masterbruce
anything after 2 is pretty much an impossibility

A lot of those have been pulled off.

Dinalfos
Originally posted by LordFear
scientific black hole, than only God ALMIGHTY CAN PERFORM THAT little trick.

And he probably doesn't exist. Go figure! stick out tongue

Howard_Jones
Originally posted by Dinalfos
And he probably doesn't exist. Go figure! stick out tongue

Let's not get into that one. You can go ahead and take that to the religious debates section.

masterbruce
Originally posted by Howard_Jones
A lot of those have been pulled off.

Yeah but I think it's irresponsible writing mixed with hyperbole to the extreme mixed with PIS mixed with lack of basic scientific sense and logic.

Howard_Jones
Originally posted by masterbruce
Yeah but I think it's irresponsible writing mixed with hyperbole to the extreme mixed with PIS mixed with lack of basic scientific sense and logic.

Well, when magic or aliens are thrown into the mix, you can do just about anything.

Dinalfos
Originally posted by Howard_Jones
Let's not get into that one. You can go ahead and take that to the religious debates section.

Yeah.

xmarksthespot
How much of the moon does one have to move to qualify as moving the moon?

masterbruce
Originally posted by Howard_Jones
Well, when magic or aliens are thrown into the mix, you can do just about anything.

I guess I can accept it when magic is taken to the equation, since you can just say that the laws of science no longer apply.

Newjak
Originally posted by masterbruce
I guess I can accept it when magic is taken to the equation, since you can just say that the laws of science no longer apply. You do realize most high comic feats bypass the laws of science right there is almost nothing done in comics that can be justified. For instance how can anyone lift a large object without it crumbling beneath it's own weight like a skyscrapper or a large ship.

Dinalfos
Is this about lifting the weight or finding the leverage to lift it? This looks more like a leverage contest. Because they ALL stop at one, logically.

Soljer
None of them could lift any of that. They would simply go THROUGH the skyscraper, assuming they were of the caliber to generate the required force.

bigbran
Originally posted by Soljer
None of them could lift any of that. They would simply go THROUGH the skyscraper, assuming they were of the caliber to generate the required force. Gladiator can, his was explained... somewhat... the rest of them however...

masterbruce
Originally posted by Newjak
You do realize most high comic feats bypass the laws of science right there is almost nothing done in comics that can be justified. For instance how can anyone lift a large object without it crumbling beneath it's own weight like a skyscrapper or a large ship.

yeah I know. but I at least can suspend my belief for things like that. Once you get to stupidity like moving an island or towing the moon, I just stop taking it seriously.

masterbruce
Originally posted by Soljer
None of them could lift any of that. They would simply go THROUGH the skyscraper, assuming they were of the caliber to generate the required force.

yeah. I guess we could assume that this skyscraper was ultradense and that these guys are standing on ultradense land.

Soljer
Originally posted by bigbran
Gladiator can, his was explained... somewhat... the rest of them however...

Oh yeah.

Superman too, by extending his bio-aura around the object to brace it. Right, right.

Luckily, the Hulk, Thor, and most of the rest have no such plot-power.

Soljer
Originally posted by masterbruce
yeah. I guess we could assume that this skyscraper was ultradense and that these guys are standing on ultradense land.

If it were ultradense (dense enough to stay together) it would also be ultra heavy. Too heavy, most likely.

masterbruce
this is also why I think it's ridiculous when people mention planet busting as a feat.

Galactus and above are the only beings who should even be able to come close to busting a planet.

In order to bust a planet, you would need unimaginable amount of power greater than 1,000,000 atomic bombs. None of the characters often mentioned can even generate the power of 1 atomic bomb yet they can somehow bust a planet, completely ridiculous.

masterbruce
Originally posted by Soljer
If it were ultradense (dense enough to stay together) it would also be ultra heavy. Too heavy, most likely.

well, aren't these guys capable of lifting bazillions of tons?

Soljer
Originally posted by masterbruce
well, aren't these guys capable of lifting bazillions of tons?

Indeed. But a skyscraper-sized object that was ultradense enough to allow someone with, comparitively, tiny hands to NOT simply plow through it?

That's a bazillion plus one. wink.

Howard_Jones
Nefaria has pulled off the Skyscrapen one too. He dropped it on the Avengers.

Soujaboy
Originally posted by masterbruce
this is also why I think it's ridiculous when people mention planet busting as a feat.

Galactus and above are the only beings who should even be able to come close to busting a planet.

In order to bust a planet, you would need unimaginable amount of power greater than 1,000,000 atomic bombs. None of the characters often mentioned can even generate the power of 1 atomic bomb yet they can somehow bust a planet, completely ridiculous.

I take it you don't read much comics?

"None of the characters often mentioned can even generate the power of one atomic bomb"

Yes that says it all. sad

Howard_Jones
Originally posted by masterbruce
this is also why I think it's ridiculous when people mention planet busting as a feat.

Galactus and above are the only beings who should even be able to come close to busting a planet.

In order to bust a planet, you would need unimaginable amount of power greater than 1,000,000 atomic bombs. None of the characters often mentioned can even generate the power of 1 atomic bomb yet they can somehow bust a planet, completely ridiculous.

Beta Ray Bill blasted Galactus' face open, and the only other person to come close to that much damage on him that's a Top Tier is Thor. You're underestimating a lot of characters.

masterbruce
Originally posted by Soujaboy
I take it you don't read much comics?

"None of the characters often mentioned can even generate the power of one atomic bomb"

Yes that says it all. sad


One of my biggest peeves in comics is inconsistency.

If you say Thor is a planet buster. This would mean he has at least the power of over a million atomic bombs.

I can accept that.

But don't then have a comic where Thor is trading blows with the Thing or Hulk. Neither thing or Hulk would be able to shrug off even one atomic bomb.

just be consistent. Either he can bust planets and he would flick guys like Hulk like an ant or he can't bust planets.

bigbran
Originally posted by Howard_Jones
Beta Ray Bill blasted Galactus' face open, and the only other person to come close to that much damage on him that's a Top Tier is Thor. You're underestimating a lot of characters. Crack, not busted!
Also, Beta's was actually believable, Thor's wasn't.

DigiMark007
I lifted my couch yesterday. It was liquid awesome.

no expression

long pig
Holding open a Blackhole is almost as stupid as Hulk somehow growing strong enough to grab energy.
That type of stupid is simply uncalled for.

xmarksthespot
Originally posted by long pig
Holding open a Blackhole is almost as stupid as Hulk somehow growing strong enough to grab energy.
That type of stupid is simply uncalled for. I'd say holding energy is slightly more stupid. At least a black hole technically has mass upon which to apply force.

long pig
Originally posted by xmarksthespot
I'd say holding energy is slightly more stupid. At least a black hole technically has mass upon which to apply force.
Tue enough. But, try this one.

#284, Hulk seemingly grows strong enough to destroy said energy. No, not displace it, completely destroy it....BY PUNCHING IT REAL, REAL HARD!

xmarksthespot
I'm convinced that when stories like that happen it's because the writers were eating crack-laced candy.

Endless Mike
Superman, Wonder Woman, Thor, Beta ray Bill, Hercules, Gladiator, Sentry, Hyperion, Wonder Man, Classic Juggernaut, Captain Marvel(Billy), Black Adam.

1. Lift a skyscraper - All of them

2. Lift or brace a mountain - All of them

3. Drag the island of Manhattan - All of them

4. Move the Moon - Superman, Wonder Woman, Thor, Bill, Possibly Herc, Glads, Sentry, Possibly Hyperion, Juggs, Captain Marvel, Black Adam

5. Force a planet out of Orbit - Superman, Possibly Wonder Woman, Thor, Bill, Glads, Sentry, Possibly Hyperion, Juggs, Captain Marvel, Black Adam

6. Destroy a planet with brute strength - Possibly Superman, Possibly Thor, Possibly Bill, Glads, Sentry, Juggs, Possibly Captain Marvel, Possibly Black Adam

7. Lift The Midgard Serpent - Superman, Thor, Bill, Gladiator, Sentry, Possibly Hyperion, Juggs, Captain Marvel, Black Adam

8. Hold a black hole - Depends on the size. Small: Superman, Wonder Woman, Thor, Bill, Glads, Sentry, Possibly Hyperion, Juggs, Captain Marvel, Black Adam.

Large - Possibly Superman, Possibly Thor, Possibly Bill, Possibly Glads, Sentry, Juggs, Possibly Captain Marvel, Possibly Black Adam.

olympian
Pretty much anyone if you are in Thor`s or Superman`s bracet.

Wich doesnt include, Wman, WWoman and 616 Hyperion.

And the last four feats while the rest can perform it it has to be a high end showing.

Jyppe
Originally posted by masterbruce

But don't then have a comic where Thor is trading blows with the Thing or Hulk. Neither thing or Hulk would be able to shrug off even one atomic bomb.

.

Yet, you think Wolverine eats nukes for breakfest no expression

olympian
laughing

Superherovandal
WW is definitely in Superman's range

olympian
Not equal tho. But same class.

She can pull the island feats on her lonesome at least.

xmarksthespot
She's not in their bracet sic but she's in their class?

I do believe that's called talking out of your ass.

norrinradd43
Gladiator claims to be able to knock a planet out of orbit

olympian
Originally posted by xmarksthespot
She's not in their bracet sic but she's in their class?

I do believe that's called talking out of your ass.
Its calling reading ability.

When she pulls the same stuff SM does and figths equally with him without relying usually on skills and lasso, then she is in the same bracet.

Just for others to know, you can be in the same class but different bracet. Both WW and Hulk are top tier as far as strenght goes, but at different places inside that tier.

xmarksthespot
Originally posted by olympian
Its calling reading ability. I was actually referring to the way in which you were saying things rather than what you were saying but que sera.

Wonder Woman is not as strong as Superman. But then neither is Hercules

Howard_Jones
Originally posted by xmarksthespot
I was actually referring to the way in which you were saying things rather than what you were saying but que sera.

Wonder Woman is not as strong as Superman. But then neither is Hercules

That's a general consensus. Not yet to be proven. wink

olympian
Originally posted by xmarksthespot
I was actually referring to the way in which you were saying things rather than what you were saying but que sera.

Wonder Woman is not as strong as Superman. But then neither is Hercules
What i meant and said was well explained in my post above.

Shes definatly not as strong as Hercules. Thats general consensus as well.

Soljer
Besides the whole "Imbued with Strength greater than Hercules" part, Diana still has more impressive strength feats than Hercules.

Mindship
Just curious: are there any strength feats that, no matter who does them, would just strike you or have struck you as, "Aw, c'mon, no one should be able to do that!"?

I'm not talking, say, a Class 20 character lifting 1000 tons. I mean, pick the strongest hero you can think of: is there any strength feat he/she shouldn't be able to do?

Howard_Jones
Originally posted by Mindship
Just curious: are there any strength feats that, no matter who does them, would just strike you or have struck you as, "Aw, c'mon, no one should be able to do that!"?

I'm not talking, say, a Class 20 character lifting 1000 tons. I mean, pick the strongest hero you can think of: is there any strength feat he/she shouldn't be able to do?

The whole Superman and Black Hole mabob.

xmarksthespot
Originally posted by olympian
What i meant and said was well explained in my post above.

Shes definatly not as strong as Hercules. Thats general consensus as well. Originally posted by xmarksthespot
I do believe that's called talking out of your ass.

snoopdogg
WW is stronger than Hercules. Atleast DC Herc. anyways. It's been stated in a comic and should not be anymore clear.

Soljer
Originally posted by Mindship
Just curious: are there any strength feats that, no matter who does them, would just strike you or have struck you as, "Aw, c'mon, no one should be able to do that!"?

I'm not talking, say, a Class 20 character lifting 1000 tons. I mean, pick the strongest hero you can think of: is there any strength feat he/she shouldn't be able to do?

Destroying energy by hitting it and punching holes in space-time come to mind as some of the biggest bullshit.

Mindship
Yeah, punching holes through time, crap like that. Good one.

long pig
Originally posted by Mindship
Yeah, punching holes through time, crap like that. Good one.
But it's more probable than the energy thing(you're talking about Juggs, right?). He could have simply used magic to create a rift or worm hole. But punching energy into non-existance is staggeringly stupid.

Hulk also was strong enough to bring matter and anti-matter together. You'd have to be able to bench-press a universe to do that.

olympian
Originally posted by xmarksthespot

What? Your marching against consensus now ? The X marks the Spot no more.

Originally posted by Soljer
Besides the whole "Imbued with Strength greater than Hercules" part, Diana still has more impressive strength feats than Hercules.

Yeah. Not having a feat higher than moon level.

Originally posted by snoopdogg
WW is stronger than Hercules. Atleast DC Herc. anyways. It's been stated in a comic and should not be anymore clear.
Its also been stated in a comic that DC Hercules held the world alone. Something she couldnt do.

The world is such a confusing place.

Soljer
Originally posted by olympian
What? Your marching against consensus now ? The X marks the Spot no more.



Yeah. Not having a feat higher than moon level.


Its also been stated in a comic that DC Hercules held the world alone. Something she couldnt do.

The world is such a confusing place.

Why not? Wonder Woman is explicity stronger than Hercules.

Hercules held a planet? Wonder Woman could do so even easier.

And Superman, even easier than that.

xmarksthespot
Originally posted by olympian
What? Your marching against consensus now ? The X marks the Spot no more. Not really, I'd just dispute there's an overwhelming consensus of Hercules being stronger.

The "general consensus", which in the case of Marvel Hercules holding the Earth comprises nearly all but you by my estimates, is that the feat is more boast than canon. Other than that I don't recall you posting any feat incredibly out of her realms, (although presumably you have some ready and waiting.) To match lifting half the Spectre albeit momentarily, helping to move celestial bodies in present day, halting heaven's chariot's descent, etc.

That and her being explicitly stated recurrently to be stronger than DC Hercules.

Kutulu
Well personally I think some more items should be added to that list:

9. Hurl a neutron star.

10. Punch a whole through space / time.

PC Superboy for one Hurled a neutron star using just his hand, and re-arranged solar systems with his bare hands. Those are levels of feats that make the black hole one look tame.

I think the best way to explain the high end feats is explain in terms of telekinesis. Meaning that of course the character's body really isn't that strong but their mind is doing the work, just that they can only channel it through things that they touch.

To illustrate my point, look at Superman one million versus current Superman. Superman one million had just open telekinesis, as in he didn't have to touch things to move them. I think that this would be the ultimate power of Superman today, same goes for Gladiator, and even the Hulk, but for some reason their power is limited to things that they can touch.

This would explain the Hulk's ability to grab, manipulate, and destroy energy objects - something which should never be possible using only brute strength. Examples include ripping a force field, etc..

Oh and as for punching through space and time, that shows the above concept in it's extreme. Trion Juggernaut, Superman one million, PC Superman, all of them could do that, so it's not just one company that has used the concept. I would put punching a whole in the fabric of space as a class above holding a black hole.

Howard_Jones
Originally posted by snoopdogg
WW is stronger than Hercules. Atleast DC Herc. anyways. It's been stated in a comic and should not be anymore clear.

It's also been said in a comic that she's a cold blooded murderer. I guess that's true too.

xmarksthespot
Originally posted by Howard_Jones
It's also been said in a comic that she's a cold blooded murderer. I guess that's true too. Post the scan of those exact words. She had ample justification for killing Max Lord.

olympian
Originally posted by Soljer
Why not? Wonder Woman is explicity stronger than Hercules.

Hercules held a planet? Wonder Woman could do so even easier.

And Superman, even easier than that.
Thats why she needed the help? Find me feats that show me she can perform it alone.

Superman i belive, altho not under all writers. Hes done it sundipped and with the help of tech for it.

WW? Nah.

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
Not really, I'd just dispute there's an overwhelming consensus of Hercules being stronger.

The "general consensus", which in the case of Marvel Hercules holding the Earth comprises nearly all but you by my estimates, is that the feat is more boast than canon. Other than that I don't recall you posting any feat incredibly out of her realms, (although presumably you have some ready and waiting.) To match lifting half the Spectre albeit momentarily, helping to move celestial bodies in present day, halting heaven's chariot's descent, etc.

That and her being explicitly stated recurrently to be stronger than DC Hercules.

I dont even need to use that mythical feat. Watch:

- She needs bullshit and tricks (lasso, weapons, skills) to look equal over guys who we know are stronger than her. Like Superman.

- Herk never used any kind of weapons whatsoever against Hulk, and rarely used skills. And yet he has looked equal in combat with him.

- Her best feat alone is Island level.

- One of Herk`s best feats is going against Thor and the result of the armwrestling match generating planet moving force. (note as you can see that its not helping Thor. Its using his force against him like ASS Superman did with Samson and Atlas). Thats on panel.

- Both him and Thor closed down with a punch a dimensional door. She doesnt have something on that level.

- Even pre crisis when WW was tagged *always* stronger than DC Herc, she had a win against him and a loss.

- She needed help to move briefly the Earth before Kyle stepped in. She stated Herc did it by his lonesome briefly.

- She failed to deal with the Heaven Chariot. Even with MM`s help he stated that they wer falling. Hum?

So tecnically, outside the mantra that she is stronger than DC Herc, what do you have that places her above his Marvel counterpart?

DDurand
I don't know the limits, but i know theses facts :

- Superman can move a moon, at least.

- Wonder woman lift a skyscraper.

- Thor can't lift the Midgard Serpent (it's a mythos fact : He can just lift a ring of the snake). He can't destroy a planet by pure strength (but can with Mjolnir).
I know there is a comic where the Marvel's Thor have this adventure, but i don't remember if he lift the serpent in this comic.

- The Marvel's Hercules can lift Manhattan. The mythos can lift a planet, then at least a moon.

- DC's Captain Marvel has the strengh of the DC's Hercules. What can this hercules do ?


For the Black Hole, remember it's just a theory. The black hole you know CAN'T exist. It's just a press thing. It's highly probable black holes can't exist at all (because the conservation of the rotational movement, that no theory manages to take into account completely: If they try, they finish systematically by the explosion of the black hole at the time when it is formed). But, you see, without the black hole, it's another biggest theory that has a problem, then... wink Ah, the politic in science embarrasment

Soujaboy
Originally posted by Soljer
Why not? Wonder Woman is explicity stronger than Hercules.

Hercules held a planet? Wonder Woman could do so even easier.

And Superman, even easier than that.

I doubt that...

No she couldn't, she and Superman have had their chance and with the help from MM they succeeded in pulling earth.

Superman's greatest feat, "pulling the endless wheels of meghedon" is pure speculation, I'm positive Hercules could have done the same.

Soujaboy
Originally posted by DDurand
I don't know the limits, but i know theses facts :

- Superman can move a moon, at least.

- Wonder woman lift a skyscraper.

- Thor can't lift the Midgard Serpent (it's a mythos fact : He can just lift a ring of the snake). He can't destroy a planet by pure strength (but can with Mjolnir).
I know there is a comic where the Marvel's Thor have this adventure, but i don't remember if he lift the serpent in this comic.

- The Marvel's Hercules can lift Manhattan. The mythos can lift a planet, then at least a moon.

- DC's Captain Marvel has the strengh of the DC's Hercules. What can this hercules do ?


For the Black Hole, remember it's just a theory. The black hole you know CAN'T exist. It's just a press thing. It's highly probable black holes can't exist at all (because the conservation of the rotational movement, that no theory manages to take into account completely: If they try, they finish systematically by the explosion of the black hole at the time when it is formed). But, you see, without the black hole, it's another biggest theory that has a problem, then... wink Ah, the politic in science embarrasment

Thor has actually fished the midgard serpent away while it was resisting. Not only is fishing something more difficult that lifting something, but the serpent was resisting his pull making they feat all the more impressive.

olympian
The Thor lift of the Midgard Serpent happened on panel. It wasent the mythical feat.

WW can lift more than a skycraper. She always looked equalish in comparation with DC Hercules (post crisis) who on panel was at least an Island mover. She also held one island on panel as well.

Since this one shows up really in a few, heres a figth between DC Hercules and an enraged out of control WW that happened during pre crisis.

http://img92.imageshack.us/my.php?image=ww2590148mv.jpg
http://img92.imageshack.us/my.php?image=ww2590157ui.jpg
http://img90.imageshack.us/my.php?image=ww2590160di.jpg
http://img90.imageshack.us/my.php?image=ww2590178in.jpg
http://img92.imageshack.us/my.php?image=ww2590186bu.jpg

Thanks to Imperial for the trouble of getting the scans.

Now to the debate and without the heat in my blood boiling (laugth, its a joke). WW is obviously top tier, no doubts. Shes not that weaker compared with the likes of Superman. No doubt. But both Thor and Herc are that closer than she is. They both have at higher levels demostrated a sheer strength that she lacks examples of. And both do physically speaking better than she does against other top tiers. I mean, sure Thor always uses the hammer. But he at least can still say he locked arms against Hercules and Hulk and matched them.

When was the last time WW locked with just strength with Superman without anything else at all, and looked equal?

DDurand
I don't think fishing is more difficult than lifting. Because when you fish (that's the word ?), water help you.

In my young time, my father and me often go fishing. With nets (not really net, but i don't know the word in english : It's a metal circle with a net in the middle). Well, animals was a LOT more hard to pull in the air than in the water.

Because, you know, in the water you just have to fight the strength of the animal (and snakes don't have fins to strongly press on water), whereas out of water you must fight against the weight of an animal which struggles...


@ Olympian.
Thank (and for the scans, too). But i think the Marvel's Midgar serpent is really little (on panels, at least). The mythos Jomungander is really bigger.

Soujaboy
bump

dvampire
Superman could, he did all of those feats listed already (well, the blackhole feat he had help after a while by GL).

xmarksthespot
Originally posted by olympian
- She needs bullshit and tricks (lasso, weapons, skills) to look equal over guys who we know are stronger than her. Like Superman.I'd like to see a comic pit Hercules against Superman. And in the event of that happening, Hercules being shown as his equal in a slugfest.
Originally posted by olympian
- Herk never used any kind of weapons whatsoever against Hulk, and rarely used skills. And yet he has looked equal in combat with him. Because Hulk is as fast as Superman? Or as intelligent as Superman? Or as skilled as Superman? That one would need to apply skills to defeat him?
Originally posted by olympian
- Her best feat alone is Island level. She has multiple other feats that depict her strength as in the same category as the likes of Superman.
Originally posted by olympian
- One of Herk`s best feats is going against Thor and the result of the armwrestling match generating planet moving force. (note as you can see that its not helping Thor. Its using his force against him like ASS Superman did with Samson and Atlas). Thats on panel. That is impressive, but do they actually depict said planet moving force? Or do they simply narratively state it?
Originally posted by olympian
- Both him and Thor closed down with a punch a dimensional door. She doesnt have something on that level. Lifting the weight of eternity isn't on that level?
Originally posted by olympian
- She needed help to move briefly the Earth before Kyle stepped in. She stated Herc did it by his lonesome briefly. Again I'd like to see Hercules move celestial bodies in present day. Or contribute to moving celestial bodies. But I find that unlikely.
Originally posted by olympian
- She failed to deal with the Heaven Chariot. Even with MM`s help he stated that they wer falling. Hum?Holding up a chariot the size of a San Francisco probably trumps dragging Manhattan, but meh.
Originally posted by olympian
So tecnically, outside the mantra that she is stronger than DC Herc, what do you have that places her above his Marvel counterpart? I don't recall saying I place her above. I just dispute some overwhelming consensus that he is above. I see no clear advantage either way. I didn't really ask for nitpicking at WW's feats (which was the majority of your post), I asked for things from Hercules that would be incredibly beyond her realms, and you've really provided nothing that would be totally out of character for her to perform that I can see.

mighty adam
Originally posted by long pig
But it's more probable than the energy thing(you're talking about Juggs, right?). He could have simply used magic to create a rift or worm hole. But punching energy into non-existance is staggeringly stupid.

Hulk also was strong enough to bring matter and anti-matter together. You'd have to be able to bench-press a universe to do that. hulk is the god of strength thats his only power so yeah he should be able to do crazy things with it. well hulk is the god of strength in my eyes so yea.

great_dane
hulk.

when tottaly enraged, he has been known to thunder clap whole galaxies, and catch mountains wieghing over billions of tons.

i'd say hulk.

as for planet destruction and orbit moving, superman and lobo.

as for holding black holes, darkseid, and hulk.

hulk has also been known to punch time itself.

olympian
Originally posted by xmarksthespot
I'd like to see a comic pit Hercules against Superman. And in the event of that happening, Hercules being shown as his equal in a slugfest.
Because Hulk is as fast as Superman? Or as intelligent as Superman? Or as skilled as Superman? That one would need to apply skills to defeat him?
She has multiple other feats that depict her strength as in the same category as the likes of Superman.
That is impressive, but do they actually depict said planet moving force? Or do they simply narratively state it?
Lifting the weight of eternity isn't on that level?
Again I'd like to see Hercules move celestial bodies in present day. Or contribute to moving celestial bodies. But I find that unlikely.
Holding up a chariot the size of a San Francisco probably trumps dragging Manhattan, but meh.
I don't recall saying I place her above. I just dispute some overwhelming consensus that he is above. I see no clear advantage either way. I didn't really ask for nitpicking at WW's feats (which was the majority of your post), I asked for things from Hercules that would be incredibly beyond her realms, and you've really provided nothing that would be totally out of character for her to perform that I can see.

1- He already locked arms and looked equal with the likes of Thor and sometimes Hulk. Definatly Superman range. When did WW did that?

2- No. Hes at least as strong. And can get stronger. As evidenced by better strength feats. Because its strength we are discussing here.

3- Same class yes. Same exact placing, no. Thats what i said above.

4- Ever saw the ASS armwrestling match with Samson and Atlas? It was generating island shaking strength and we see the effects around. See this one? Not only it states they are doing it, it also destroyes the plateau they are sitting on and we see the side effects on the weather.

5- We dont know how much the Spectre weigthed. Like we dont know how much the Midgard Serpent weigths. The difference between both is that we saw the whole fishing the worm having side effects in the world. The Specter one is more speculative. But again where weigth is concerned, nothing can be said about either.

6- Unlikely. He cant fly. But still has better strength raw feats as far as i can see. Its not like hes a whole class up, just a bit above. So far.

7- I cant tell wich is bigger, i dont live in the U.S. But one made it and the other stated it was failing.

8- Nothing? Planet shaking strength and punching dimensional doors. She still lacks these, im afraid. And locking arms strengthwise wich is something CM for example has done. Thus why hes considered SM`s equal by many in that department.

About you not stating she was above, it was the impression i got. Again its only where strength is concerned, in a standart match i give her the sligth majority because she has more advantages and usually makes use of it.

xmarksthespot
1 & 2. You compared WW using skill against Superman, Hercules not using it against Hulk. To which I responded that the situations are different.

Superman has a speed advantage, strength advantage, and versatility advantage over Wonder Woman. Skill is her equalizer, yes, but if she didn't have, while not equal, comparable strength and comparable speed her skill would mean absolutely nothing. Therefore your point about how her fights with Superman are depicted are moot.

Hulk isn't as strong as Superman at base level. He doesn't have a huge amount of intelligence, nor Superman's versatility, nor speed, nor even skill. He has strength. He has durability. He is one dimensional. I wouldn't expect a large amount of skill to be depicted in fights with the Hulk with someone of comparable strength.

3. I don't consider her the same exact placing. But then I don't consider Hercules there either. Superman is stronger than both.

4. Then that would be a very good feat. But see 8.

5. They did lift the Spectre if momentarily. It states he was almost too much for them. I'd imagine he was heavy.

6. Things like towing planets aren't strength feats? What else does one define them as if not strength feats? They are meant by writers to depict characters' strength. Not their ability to fly. Or their speed.

7. San Francisco is about 2.5 times larger than Manhattan or thereabouts. I'm not sure about the mechanics of it but lifting something that's falling, seems like it would be more difficult than pulling something. But who knows.

8. I wouldn't go "What the f'uck, Wonder Woman can't do that." if I saw it happen in a comic. erm

I still see neither as clearly stronger. Both are strong. But any difference to me seems negligible. And I would give her more than a slight majority in a standard match, speed, skill and weaponry being the key, regardless of who is stronger. But then I don't know how you're defining slight majority.

olympian
1- I compared both physical records against other top tiers. Hulk is an example. Thor is another. So at one side you have Herc locking arms with the likes of him in a regular manner. And on another WW usually not doing it. If ever.

2- Your point about Superman having other powers doesnt matter here. We are discussing strength. Not powerset. CM has other powers and so does Superman and both have locked arms. Lobo has done it and hes more one dimensional than WW is. Mon-El has done it. The main question should be when did WW did it.

Examples of Wonder Woman locking arms only with the likes of CM, Superman, Black Adam, Lobo. You have any?

3- Going by the showings of both, he is that close in that category by comparation with her because hes simply stronger.

4- It sure is. But look here since you dont have to go down at 8. Where did she do something at that level on her own/against someone? Know any example?

5- The main problem with that feat is that while it does say it was nearly much, we cant quantify it because we dont know how heavy it was other than it was "heavy". Wich is why i dont use the Midgard Serpent of Thor for quotes such as " he fished something heavier than Earth" when no weigth was ever given.

6- When did i said it wasent? But who looks best? A guy that generates that kind of force against an opponent or one that does it with the backup of others? She needs that kind of direct contest in her record.

7- I cant tell. It only looks more impressive for me when one did it alone and made it while another was failing. Then again, she can do island shaking force as well, so its not this particular level that brings her down. Its the other higher ones.

8- Sligth majority= 6/7 out of 10. She would more if (just like Superman and a bunch of others) they actually used theyr speed in combat as well/much as they fly. But they dont. Futhermore, this particular opponent also happens to be skilled in some of the arts she is.

xmarksthespot
Originally posted by olympian
1- I compared both physical records against other top tiers. Hulk is an example. Thor is another. So at one side you have Herc locking arms with the likes of him in a regular manner. And on another WW usually not doing it. If ever.

2- Your point about Superman having other powers doesnt matter here. We are discussing strength. Not powerset. CM has other powers and so does Superman and both have locked arms. Lobo has done it and hes more one dimensional than WW is. Mon-El has done it. The main question should be when did WW did it.

Examples of Wonder Woman locking arms only with the likes of CM, Superman, Black Adam, Lobo. You have any?I'm not sure what you mean by "locked arms". They fight and writers and artists depict the fight how they think it should occur. WW is supposed to be skilled, and thus is depicted using skill. Hercules is also supposed to be skilled, but then is apparently not depicted as so. While I see how one could infer strength from this, I don't see why one should infer strength from this.
Originally posted by olympian
3- Going by the showings of both, he is that close in that category by comparation with her because hes simply stronger. That is of course one opinion. I'm still not seeing him dwarfing her strength to the extent that I'd separate them. But since we're going around in circles I'm happy to agree to disagree.
Originally posted by olympian
4- It sure is. But look here since you dont have to go down at 8. Where did she do something at that level on her own/against someone? Know any example?Things like helping to tow celestial bodies, or stopping the Spectre's fall. So no if she did something like that I wouldn't go "wtf".
Originally posted by olympian
5- The main problem with that feat is that while it does say it was nearly much, we cant quantify it because we dont know how heavy it was other than it was "heavy". Wich is why i dont use the Midgard Serpent of Thor for quotes such as " he fished something heavier than Earth" when no weigth was ever given. It's an ambiguous feat but it's still (meant to be) an impressive one, akin to moving moons etc.
Originally posted by olympian
6- When did i said it wasent? But who looks best? A guy that generates that kind of force against an opponent or one that does it with the backup of others? She needs that kind of direct contest in her record. Frankly I don't see that happening, she's not going to get feats that would put her too close to the S-shield. Even if one doesn't assume an equal sharing of weight moved, they're still intended to be feats of strength for all involved.
Originally posted by olympian
8- Sligth majority= 6/7 out of 10. She would more if (just like Superman and a bunch of others) they actually used theyr speed in combat as well/much as they fly. But they dont. Futhermore, this particular opponent also happens to be skilled in some of the arts she is. The plot device lasso and her speed should give her an at least 7/10 majority.

olympian
Originally posted by xmarksthespot
I'm not sure what you mean by "locked arms". They fight and writers and artists depict the fight how they think it should occur. WW is supposed to be skilled, and thus is depicted using skill. Hercules is also supposed to be skilled, but then is apparently not depicted as so. While I see how one could infer strength from this, I don't see why one should infer strength from this.
That is of course one opinion. I'm still not seeing him dwarfing her strength to the extent that I'd separate them. But since we're going around in circles I'm happy to agree to disagree.
Things like helping to tow celestial bodies, or stopping the Spectre's fall. So no if she did something like that I wouldn't go "wtf".
It's an ambiguous feat but it's still (meant to be) an impressive one, akin to moving moons etc.
Frankly I don't see that happening, she's not going to get feats that would put her too close to the S-shield. Even if one doesn't assume an equal sharing of weight moved, they're still intended to be feats of strength for all involved.
The plot device lasso and her speed should give her an at least 7/10 majority.


1- Allow me to specify the term. "Locking arms" is a direct contest of strength only. An armwrestle match for example. A pure slugfest is another (DD vs Superman in theyr first figth was mainly this). CM for all the contriversal issues related with DC Hercules and WW has done this with Superman. Marvel Hercules has done it with Hulk and Thor. Thor has done it with Hulk, BrB, etc.

A standart match is usually what you have avaiable (gear, powerset, skills) to use. Now, since we are discussing the category of strength and not powerset (wich she is definatly above) id like to see examples of her physically showing an equal slug measure against the likes of Superman, CM, etc in a regular manner. Way i see it, Herc has those. But WW so far doesnt seem to do as well in those direct matchups without recurring to her gear. And with this i mean using gear while the opponent doesnt.

2- He doesnt "dwarf" her. In order to be so he would have to be way above. Hes not. Hes above nonetheless.
3- The moon resisted the fall of the Spectre..ok i couldnt resist stick out tongue

Her main *problem* where strength is discussed its that all her major lifting/moving feats are done with backup. She doesnt have a single example where a contest against another big gun is having side effects such as others examples showed us. And especially and *this* point is the most revelant..on her own.

4- It sure gets the majority but more than that its maybe something it wont happen. The lasso tends to be a late resource and the speed she uses its mainly for flying. Like other fliers she shares the tendency of getting close. Im talking in character anyway. Like usual.

LordFear
Originally posted by xmarksthespot
1 & 2. You compared WW using skill against Superman, Hercules not using it against Hulk. To which I responded that the situations are different.

Superman has a speed advantage, strength advantage, and versatility advantage over Wonder Woman. Skill is her equalizer, yes, but if she didn't have, while not equal, comparable strength and comparable speed her skill would mean absolutely nothing. Therefore your point about how her fights with Superman are depicted are moot.

Hulk isn't as strong as Superman at base level. He doesn't have a huge amount of intelligence, nor Superman's versatility, nor speed, nor even skill. He has strength. He has durability. He is one dimensional. I wouldn't expect a large amount of skill to be depicted in fights with the Hulk with someone of comparable strength.

3. I don't consider her the same exact placing. But then I don't consider Hercules there either. Superman is stronger than both.

4. Then that would be a very good feat. But see 8.

5. They did lift the Spectre if momentarily. It states he was almost too much for them. I'd imagine he was heavy.

6. Things like towing planets aren't strength feats? What else does one define them as if not strength feats? They are meant by writers to depict characters' strength. Not their ability to fly. Or their speed.

7. San Francisco is about 2.5 times larger than Manhattan or thereabouts. I'm not sure about the mechanics of it but lifting something that's falling, seems like it would be more difficult than pulling something. But who knows.

8. I wouldn't go "What the f'uck, Wonder Woman can't do that." if I saw it happen in a comic. erm

I still see neither as clearly stronger. Both are strong. But any difference to me seems negligible. And I would give her more than a slight majority in a standard match, speed, skill and weaponry being the key, regardless of who is stronger. But then I don't know how you're defining slight majority.

You refer to versatility? Hulk's countless strength and regenerative abilities are all thats required. Superman's powers couldn't stop him
what breathing him into an ice cube, or trying to fry his bran, or breath him away? what about speed? you think speedblitz attacks are really gonna stop Hulk in his most savage form? Please dude, stop riding Big Blue's cape.

Superherovandal
Supes has a better chance of stopping Hulk than vice-versa. See Hulk can't hurt what he can't touch. and speed would make it seem like months were passing to Supes before Hulk was remotely close to hitting Supes.

olympian
I dont know if you noticed. But Superman isent written like that at all..

Devil Lance
Originally posted by olympian
I dont know if you noticed. But Superman isent written like that at all..


He isn't confused

http://img366.imageshack.us/img366/679/08222005124311pm3un.jpg
http://img370.imageshack.us/img370/9203/pics0017bn.jpg

http://img378.imageshack.us/img378/4214/superman20speed20vs20mongul202.jpg
http://img378.imageshack.us/img378/9558/supermanandmongul8pr.jpg

http://img378.imageshack.us/img378/1971/supermanfast3ar.jpg

roll eyes (sarcastic)

olympian
Originally posted by Superherovandal
Supes has a better chance of stopping Hulk than vice-versa. See Hulk can't hurt what he can't touch. and speed would make it seem like months were passing to Supes before Hulk was remotely close to hitting Supes.
Where does it says in those scans that months passed before anyone could react?

Your full of it with your exagerattion.

xmarksthespot
Technically he said the comparative speed would make it seem like months were passing to Superman before Hulk even came close to connecting with him. Which considering their relative speeds and reactions is relatively true. erm

nvrbeenwthagirl
Originally posted by olympian
1- Allow me to specify the term. "Locking arms" is a direct contest of strength only. An armwrestle match for example. A pure slugfest is another (DD vs Superman in theyr first figth was mainly this). CM for all the contriversal issues related with DC Hercules and WW has done this with Superman. Marvel Hercules has done it with Hulk and Thor. Thor has done it with Hulk, BrB, etc.

A standart match is usually what you have avaiable (gear, powerset, skills) to use. Now, since we are discussing the category of strength and not powerset (wich she is definatly above) id like to see examples of her physically showing an equal slug measure against the likes of Superman, CM, etc in a regular manner. Way i see it, Herc has those. But WW so far doesnt seem to do as well in those direct matchups without recurring to her gear. And with this i mean using gear while the opponent doesnt.

2- He doesnt "dwarf" her. In order to be so he would have to be way above. Hes not. Hes above nonetheless.
3- The moon resisted the fall of the Spectre..ok i couldnt resist stick out tongue

Her main *problem* where strength is discussed its that all her major lifting/moving feats are done with backup. She doesnt have a single example where a contest against another big gun is having side effects such as others examples showed us. And especially and *this* point is the most revelant..on her own.

4- It sure gets the majority but more than that its maybe something it wont happen. The lasso tends to be a late resource and the speed she uses its mainly for flying. Like other fliers she shares the tendency of getting close. Im talking in character anyway. Like usual.

Ok I have to get you together on one point. All of her lifting feats do not require back up. First of all, when she was stopping the heaven's chariot from falling, the reason she had trouble stopping it was becuz of the heavenly burn. She had for all intents and purposes slowed it's fall.

And she has a strength feat on her own much greater than moving an island. In the technis Imperitive, She stopped a meteor that was so big that not even Terra could stop it. Terra can move mountains like they were pebbles becuz of her earth moving power. The size of the Meteor was so big that it dwarfed them so that you couldnt' even see them on panel. And she did this feat alone and with EASE. The writer is clearly illustrating that if she can move something so huge that not even Terra could stop, with ease, then she is cleary far beyond the capacity of just that one meteor. Not to mention the fact that meteor also had plenty of inertia. So not only was she lifting this rediculous amount of mass, she pushed against and stopped a falling rock the size of a state.

Also, the Spectre feat, If you look at the panel, it shows that Diana is equally pulling on her half of the spectre. If Superman were beyond her in strength like poeple want to make it, then how come he was straining equally with her. If she were the weaker, She would have dropped her side first. Or the Spectre would have been lower on her side as she struggled and he didn't. THe pic is clearly meant to show that they are peers in strength.

Superman once commented also how a hit from the New Male Cheetah felt like a punch from Diana or Captain Marvel. So tell me, what exactly can one infer from that comment other than Diana and Captain Marvel hit with the same lvl of force?

D-Block
I think WW is just under CM, BA, SM, Thor, and BRB but her skill let's her hold her own for a while. But in pure power strength she is a little out matched. It's been said that she is 2nd to Superman it's also been said Captain Marvel is equal to Superman and to some his superior. I see Thor as CM or SM equal in strength.

nvrbeenwthagirl
Originally posted by D-Block
I think WW is just under CM, BA, SM, Thor, and BRB but her skill let's her hold her own for a while. But in pure power strength she is a little out matched. It's been said that she is 2nd to Superman it's also been said Captain Marvel is equal to Superman and to some his superior. I see Thor as CM or SM equal in strength.

Skill alone doesn't allow you to hold up a meteor the size of Texas. Skill doesn't allow you to break Superman's Ribs. SKill doesn't Allow you to be punched form the sun to the earth at faster than light speeds, make a crater, and get up. That is all strength and durability feats.

olympian
Originally posted by xmarksthespot
Technically he said the comparative speed would make it seem like months were passing to Superman before Hulk even came close to connecting with him. Which considering their relative speeds and reactions is relatively true. erm

Its still an exagerattion. You rarely have if at all, someone using combat speed in a manner where it will give the slower guy the illusion of being frozen in time by the span of months.

Except the Flash types, that is.

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
Ok I have to get you together on one point. All of her lifting feats do not require back up. First of all, when she was stopping the heaven's chariot from falling, the reason she had trouble stopping it was becuz of the heavenly burn. She had for all intents and purposes slowed it's fall.

And she has a strength feat on her own much greater than moving an island. In the technis Imperitive, She stopped a meteor that was so big that not even Terra could stop it. Terra can move mountains like they were pebbles becuz of her earth moving power. The size of the Meteor was so big that it dwarfed them so that you couldnt' even see them on panel. And she did this feat alone and with EASE. The writer is clearly illustrating that if she can move something so huge that not even Terra could stop, with ease, then she is cleary far beyond the capacity of just that one meteor. Not to mention the fact that meteor also had plenty of inertia. So not only was she lifting this rediculous amount of mass, she pushed against and stopped a falling rock the size of a state.

Also, the Spectre feat, If you look at the panel, it shows that Diana is equally pulling on her half of the spectre. If Superman were beyond her in strength like poeple want to make it, then how come he was straining equally with her. If she were the weaker, She would have dropped her side first. Or the Spectre would have been lower on her side as she struggled and he didn't. THe pic is clearly meant to show that they are peers in strength.

Superman once commented also how a hit from the New Male Cheetah felt like a punch from Diana or Captain Marvel. So tell me, what exactly can one infer from that comment other than Diana and Captain Marvel hit with the same lvl of force?

1- Her high- end feats. Not *all* her feats.

2- She comented on how she was having troubles and backup showed up to help her.

3- Unless im wrong, thats the one i was refering that she did alone. Island level werebouts and up (but below the most austrageous feats that others have). I agree that she can perform these rather easily.

4- The Spectre feat doesnt matter much in terms of who was doing more work. I dont think anything indicates she did alot less or not.

Its the major factor that *no weigth* was given. Its hard to quantify. The Midgard Serpent feat of Thor at least showed a constest of strength and effects on Earth.

5- We can enfer from that comment that they are in the same strength class. Wich is true. I dont argue that either.

I argue that are people sligth above in the same class.

Soujaboy
bump

MightyEInherjar
So why was Hulk left out of this? I take it because he's too inconsistent, or to avoid arguments?

Either way, 'strength feats' are the only feats Hulk has, so he might as well fit a thread themed on it.

Soujaboy
because at base strength Hulk isn't that strong...

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