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I've got a question, a question that has been bugging me since the dawn of mankind itself... well, okay, not that long, but pretty damn long. Since I've been here, I've seen dozens upon dozens upon dozens of people who have frothed at the mouth at the very mention of any KotoR character (specifically Revan) and Marka Ragnos.

Here's my question. How have these people spawned such a fan gathering? For the longest time, we've only known crap about Revan from second-hand accounts. Of Ragnos, much less. Revan's character is starting to be defined - but still... we don't have anything but second-hand accounts of his power and such.

So, knowing that, why do people so avidly profess their undying love for Revan, Ragnos, and unknown characters like them? o0

Note: This isn't to flame. But a serious question is being asked. I expect serious answers.

The Ragnos fanboyism has died down. Revan Fanboyism has shot up due to the Jedi finally being a known due to his appearence in PoD. Revan's fanboyism is justified to an extent. However, sometimes it goes over the top.

Originally posted by General Kenobl
The Ragnos fanboyism has died down. Revan Fanboyism has shot up due to the Jedi finally being a known due to his appearence in PoD. Revan's fanboyism is justified to an extent. However, sometimes it goes over the top.

My point is, when people become fans of characters, that is because the characters have been defined. Vader, Yoda, Mace, Dooku, Sidious, Padme, C-3P0 - and Jar Jar (lol) - have all been defined, seen, written, and we know them. We know their personality, their skills, their strengths, their weaknesses.

Why has this fanboyism cropped up at all? I can understand that you might enjoy Revan being costumizable, and all that, but he's not a defined character. Not even now.

People love Revan because you are Revan. I am Revan. Escape is Revan. General Kenobi is Revan. Our actions defined him, and because of that, we feel more closely attached to him than any other character.
Also, KotOR is a phenomenal game. Probably the best Star Wars game I've played since TIE Fighter.

"Stories" of KOTOR Games are actually Canon and are now part of the Star Wars: Expanded Universe. So the so-called "second hand" accounts of Revan contain mostly canonical information and are reliable.

And POD Novel has already hinted on Revan's power, which is a reliable source as well.

Interestingly enough, these exact same "second hand accounts" put him firmly below Exar Kun and Freedon Nadd. I suppose these are just as canon and reliable.

Originally posted by Generic Hero
Interestingly enough, these exact same "second hand accounts" put him firmly below Exar Kun and Freedon Nadd. I suppose these are just as canon and reliable.
The only reliable second hand accounts are the actual "profiles" of Revan being posted in various sites like: Wikipedia, Wookieepedia and Gamespot. These profiles contain information from the actual "story" of KOTOR game, which is canon.

And Revan has never been compared to Exar Kun and Freedon Nadd in his "profiles", so stop making BS comments.

Bah, I was under the impression you were referring to in-game second hand accounts.



For the information to be reliable, every statement they make must have a valid and accesible reference to a statement or statements in the official EU. If they don't, I can easily call into question lines from wikipedia like: "Revan was the uberest cheese ever" and "Reven was the greatest sith lord ever".

For it to be valid, it must be backed by something official in EU. It must be backed by any of the following:

-The movies (their most recent release), the scripts, the novelizations of the movies, the radio plays, and any statements by George Lucas himself.

Or

-Books, comics, and games bearing the label of Star Wars. The (RPG) stories and general background information.

If Gamespot makes a statement and that statement is not backed by any of the following sources, then it means nothing.

I'll make it clearer. Let's say Gamespot says this line:
"Revan was thought to be the most powerful Dark Lord of all time."

Cute assertion, Gamespot. Now, there better be a by that quote that directly links to wherever you got that from. And that better be a valid source (Anything I've listed), and it better not contradict anything of superior credibility.

"Mostly" doesn't cut it. I agree it's a well done profile, mostly backed by reliable information, but you can't seriously bring quotes from it to debates because it's "mostly" good. Wikipedia, Wookiepedia and Gamespot are not mentioned in the Star Wars canon policy, and so we leave it at that.

Originally posted by Generic Hero
For the information to be reliable, every statement they make must have a valid and accesible reference to statement in the official EU. If they don't, I can easily call into question lines from wikipedia like: "Revan was the uberest cheese ever" and "Reven was the greatest sith lord ever".

For it to be valid, it must be backed by something official in EU. Something backed by any of the following:

-The movies (their most recent release), the scripts, the novelizations of the movies, the radio plays, and any statements by George Lucas himself.

Or

-Books, comics, and games bearing the label of Star Wars. The (RPG) stories and general background information.

If Gamespot makes a statement and that statement is not backed by any of the following sources, then it means nothing.
Revan's profile in wikipedia is sadly not fully perfect actually due to some non-canonical stances in it.

Here is a good and almost perfect profile on Revan: http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Revan

The information in this profile mostly follows canonical information and people are not allowed to EDIT it. (like in case of Wikipedia)

Gamespot's profile regarding Revan is also a reliable one because they have not posted any made-up stuff.

I've been considering for awhile ruling that unknown characters- in the sense that we have no way of gaging them against others- might be made illegal in the SWVs.

Originally posted by Generic Hero
"Mostly" doesn't cut it. I agree it's a well done profile, mostly backed by reliable information, but you can't seriously bring quotes from it to debates because it's "mostly" good. Wikipedia, Wookiepedia and Gamespot are not mentioned in the Star Wars canon policy, and so we leave it at that.
These profiles are called "second hand accounts" for a reason. And canonical information in them is not fallible.

Originally posted by Captain REX
I've been considering for awhile ruling that unknown characters- in the sense that we have no way of gaging them against others- might be made illegal in the SWVs.

That would be advised, I think.

If I were a Mod, i'd second that motion.

Originally posted by Tangible God
If I were a Mod, i'd second that motion.

Yeah. We remember the times of when Revan and Ragnos reigned supreme.

Originally posted by Tangible God
If I were a Mod, i'd second that motion.

I concur. Like how no one uses the Exile in matches...

LMFAO!!

I just noticed that The Planet made his little lien thingy "retired debator".

Originally posted by Blaxican
LMFAO!!

I just noticed that The Planet made his little lien thingy "retired debator".

Yeah. He chewed my ass out for apparently copying Advent. I came back for a little while to clear up Anakin vs. Dooku and Sidious vs. Mace, as there are some new issues on those fronts, then I'll likely be taking a month or two off from KMC. I do that a lot, lol. Play for three months, take two off, rinse and repeat.

The Anakin and Dooku crap is not going to end soon. There's always some fanboys who say Dooku > Anakin even though direct canon proves otherwise.

Originally posted by General Kenobl
The Anakin and Dooku crap is not going to end soon. There's always some fanboys who say Dooku > Anakin even though direct canon proves otherwise.

Anakin > Dooku in swordsmanship.

Anakin >>>>>>>> Dooku in raw power.

Anakin >>>>>>>> Dooku in potential.

Anakin >>>>>>>> Dooku in strength.

Anakin >>>>>>>>>> Dooku in stamina.

Dooku >> Anakin in Force power.

Originally posted by Blaxican
LMFAO!!

I just noticed that The Planet made his little lien thingy "retired debator". I can imagine all the serious debates being held on KMC. After all, internet remains serious business.

Sometimes you gotta retire from it.

What's exactly the level of difference in a "<" for you? Does it better, just a tinsy bit better, or what? Anakin shouldn't be underminded as a Force user, I mean his anger alone collapsed a room, didn't it?

After Anakin became Darth Vader, he hinted that he has gained some new powers. And one of them was Force Choke, which he demonstrated on "Padme".

Originally posted by General Kenobl
What's exactly the level of difference in a "<" for you? Does it better, just a tinsy bit better, or what? Anakin shouldn't be underminded as a Force user, I mean his anger alone collapsed a room, didn't it?

Anakin's raw power gives him moments of unparalleled Force power. He has no mastery or experience with the Force. It is in Force-based places that he tends to fall up short. In Labyrinth of Evil, he didn't have the power to open one of the doors in Gunray's citadel with the Force, and he finally had Clone troopers blow it up.

People like Mace and Dooku - and, God help him, Yoda and Sidious - are far more skilled with the Force, though every single one of them lack his raw power and raw command of it.

Originally posted by Generic Hero
People love Revan because you are Revan. I am Revan. Escape is Revan. General Kenobi is Revan. Our actions defined him, and because of that, we feel more closely attached to him than any other character.


Which is what makes Revan-love nothing more than a nauseating exercise in narcissism.

Originally posted by Ushgarak
Which is what makes Revan-love nothing more than a nauseating exercise in narcissism.

Lmao. You have a point.

Though, even with Generic's rebuttle, I still don't see why this justifies the intense amount of pro-Revan bias that we have. I could understand that, if he were a concrete and known character whom we have knowledge of - as far as power, traits, techniques, beliefs and so forth - indeed, the very details that a character should possess.

But we don't. Which is why it is so damn frustrating.

Some could argue that the mystery behind his character is what is so appealing. It leaves much to the imagination.