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psych. gotcha on to the thread. this is actually my post-dvd commentary rant, and i would love to get you guys' feedback about how you felt.

1. i actually was being truthful. from what i heard in the commentary (which mind you all could have been said to throw us off) the writers are dead set of Elizabeth and Will loving each other and seeing that through. Aside from the fact that the writers couldnt seem to agree on anything (from the compass to the kiss to whether Jack would have stayed to whether the curiosity scene was going anywhere to the betrayals) they did agree that Will and Elizabeth love each other and it's going to work. I'm okay with that though. I still fully think Jack and Elizabeth are much better suited as characters, and make for a lot more excitement, passion, and endless creativity with where it could go and how they could last as a couple. But for the story they've written, its not working. They really have written themselves into a corner and I cant wait to see if they are capable of digging out. They pitted a charming and cute though awkward guy against an intoxicating antihero thats become an icon. They forced Elizabeth into the place of choosing, but she's betrayed both men in bad ways so her character is in limbo. They made it very clear (even more clear in the commentary) that Jack is seriously attracted to Elizabeth and its not just about a good lay for him. They gave Will too many heroic moments, and Jack/Elizabeth too many witty dialogue scenes. Without destroying someone's character, there's no way to end it.

Point with all that, I reckon they'll sail their original ship and make it work fine, but the more interesting of the couples will be left to our imaginations.


Other thoughts on the commentary:

LOVED the missing line after Bootstrap saying Will turned pirate after all, and then Jack said "given a very liberal definition of the word pirate". That seems to fit a sparrabeth ending, as far as "pirates life for me" and all that. I wish they would have let us see that line. Sounds hilarious.

I was really intrigued by the writer's discussion of the curiosity scene. What they said was that Jack knew Elizabeth was having attraction for him and feeling bad for it, so he was just paying her back for how she played him on the island in movie 1 by flirting with her and making her feel even more guilty. And then that Elizabeth jumped into the game and they were both offering terms for having each other: they want each other on their own terms, that kind of thing. i was able to appreciate the scene a lot more taking it from that perspective.

They mentioned something interesting about the shape of the lock on the chest. The lock is a heart and it opens with crabs. There's a hint, Lovelyone.

They also suggested that Elizabeth whacking James with the bottle in Tortuga foreshadowed what she did to Jack and gave a lot away about her true nature.

And finally, I was pleased that they took a chunk of time to explain that nearly everything in the film has a deep meaning and there are tons of symbols that play into film 3 in a big way that you can spot if you are looking closely.

So, what did you all think of the commentary? Or DVD stuff? Any comments? I'm feeling rather good about everything, and I laughed my ass off watching the film again, and there's nothing more precious than a good laugh!

yeah I know that kate lol the crab open heart closed thing lol

I actually have a bizzare feeling that they are going to make it work out for both men when it comes to Elizabeth...I think they are getting rid of Will's character but making it decent..and they WILL give Jack a decent ending..I refuse to believe that Jack is just going to leave and wander for an eternity looking for immortality..is THAT where his character truly developed to? If so I want my god damn money back wasted on a franchise lol. I dont believe that..there's a reason why they made him so attracted to Liz in DMC..

hahaha i like your plan Lovelyone. I've always been okay with the notion of them sharing her, as well. lol

Question: Did you get the 2disc Dvd?? The idiot that I am, I got the 1 disc by accident and now I can't return it for the other one because I tore it open the minute I purchased it so I could get @ the special skull pin. I am sad, I feel like I just missed out on hours of POtC fun.

there actually isnt that much extra. the commentary and bloopers and some swordfighting stuff, but honestly, much less than i would have hoped. ask for it for Christmas!!!

we have missed you-- you havent been on in so long~!!

The thing with the Curiousity sequence is that by the time the movie is over, J/E have essentially met each other's terms. They were essentially stating that they'd only want each other if she became a pirate, and he became a good man. They're not going to leave that unresolved. They made Jack's intentions rather clear with the commentary, but remained surprisingly mum on Elizabeth's intentions. I think that says a lot....while saying very little...

I haven't heard the commentary yet for myself, I'm getting the DVD this afternoon, but from what I've read I think there's still room for hope.

its a desperate person with a little bit of hope that attracts the attention of Davy Jones, according to Jack. lol.

but i agree, there's always hope. i didnt mean my post to be an indication there wasnt. its just gut feelings and stuff like that.

No, I understand what you're saying. And I'm not critiquing you for it at all. It's probably a good thing that you've looked into things and come to that conclusion. Better to go into AWE with eyes wide open rather than with the fixed idea that J\E will unequivatibly be together. Like I said, I haven't heard the commentary myself, so I'm still laboring under my own drowning delusions.

I was just saying that it's strange that by the end of the movie, they've met one another's terms. To me, that doesn't seem to say, this is a finished relationship.

i agree fully that they've met one another's terms... but the writers seem pretty set on the idea that Elizabeth mainly did it to 1. slake her lust and drown and guilt and 2. save Will. She's still in love with Will. I dont know how they could fully erase that in 3 without making her seem like a total *****, even though i want her and jack together and think it would be the best thing that ever happened to disney. my problem is i cant find it within myself to hate Will.

my opinions change about every 5 minutes though. lol.

I know what you guys mean. I have hope, but realistically, I'm trying to reconcile myself to the fact that it may not happen. What i'm hoping for, though, is some resolution of the storyline that will be emotionally satisfying. After watching parts of the commentary, I feel SAFE... because Ted & Terry are really thoughtful, insightful and very plugged into what the audience is thinking. I mean, they totally admit to the sexual attraction between Jack&Liz, they don't discount it at all which made me very happy. I trust them to treat all the characters with respect.

As a side note, can I just say, everyone on this board is freaking smart! All the stuff everyone was saying was, in fact, in the commentary! They actually said, "by chaining/kissing Jack, Elizabeth slakes her lust and also drowns her guilt for being attracted to someone other than Will ." They also referenced the Han/Leia carbonation parallel @ the ending scene, something we also discussed. It was crazy! UNLESS.... Ted & Terry actually snuck into this forum, read all our ideas and passed them off as their own! Either way, Great job, team!

^^^^ hahahaha YAY~!!

i fully agree with you- as long as the movie makes sense and is satisfying, i will be happy. as long as they dont make Jack the victim of unrequited love. thats depressing. lol.

Originally posted by katelovespirate
i agree fully that they've met one another's terms... but the writers seem pretty set on the idea that Elizabeth mainly did it to 1. slake her lust and drown and guilt and 2. save Will. She's still in love with Will. I dont know how they could fully erase that in 3 without making her seem like a total *****, even though i want her and jack together and think it would be the best thing that ever happened to disney. my problem is i cant find it within myself to hate Will.

my opinions change about every 5 minutes though. lol.


I know! I can't really bring myself to hate Will either. He's so admirable through out the movie, and the look of heartbreak at the end of DMC in his face is gut wrenching.

I don't see them taking Will's character to an extreme where we have to hate him. Although, the scenes that have leaked out involving Jack and his revealing Elizabeth's treachery do not exactly promote good will towards Jack. I think that's interesting.

yeah i dont get what they are doing AT ALL.


they've maintained Will's relative purity as a good man throughout the films. he does some stupid stuff, he betrays people sometimes, but his overal purpose stays the same, and it isnt selfish. he's trying to protect Elizabeth and save his dad.

Jack, on the other hand, is much more likable despite being much more selfish. i think its because Jack's goodness isnt so obvious, but we get hints of that heart of gold.

so they cant turn Will evil completely- that would be dumb. but o even bring his character to the level of Jack or Elizabeth would be pretty dumb too, because then there's really no reason Elizabeth should choose him over Jack.

on the other hand, he will HAVE to sink to that level if he's ever going to come to terms with what Elizabeth did, or accept that Jack is a good man (which we are assuming he eventually does).


like i said before, LOL, i dont get what they are doing at all.

I don't think it's possible to hate Will, he has that endearing, likable puppy-dog charm that makes u just say awwww... and want to pet him on the head. And when the shirt comes off for the whipping, he's not to hard on the eyes either.

Jack, of course, is just hot and sexy in himself, everything he does just enhances this-- whether good or bad. Sneaky? Okay! Treacherous? Why not? Bad-boy? Yes Please!

here's a problem i have. the writers said the ending for 2 resolves things. though this hint probably refers to stuff we dont understand yet, they wouldn't have said it (and repeated it) unless they were serious.

They never said that sort of thing about movie 1's ending... that movie 1 resolved things.

So the most probably ending ideas everyone has been bouncing around--- that Will and Liz get married, that Jack sails off into the sunset on the pearl with the whores, that ending is from MOVIE 1. it's entirely OPPOSITE from movie 2.

so if the writers were serious about movie 2 resolving things, the ending for 3 would look more like, Barbossa having his apple (the pearl and the whores), Elizabeth and Will emotionally divided, and everyone as usual rallying for Jack, ready for a new dangerous adventure. Elizabeth trying to sort out who she is and what she wants while putting everyone around her in danger, Will following Elizabeth, and Jack off the edge of the map.

see what i'm saying? lol

Originally posted by katelovespirate
so if the writers were serious about movie 2 resolving things, the ending for 3 would look more like, Barbossa having his apple (the pearl and the whores), Elizabeth and Will emotionally divided, and everyone as usual rallying for Jack, ready for a new dangerous adventure. Elizabeth trying to sort out who she is and what she wants while putting everyone around her in danger, Will following Elizabeth, and Jack off the edge of the map.

see what i'm saying? lol

Katelovespirate, I LOVE THIS ENDING. I will take this ending. It kinda reminds of the ending of the first movie (which I LOVED) Jack, setting off on new adventures. You dont' know what adventures those are, but that's why it's even more alluring. And also, this ending will keep the love triangle nice and ambiguous, leaving us to fill it in accordingly in our imaginations!

It's hard to say whether they will do an ambiguous ending or not. I'd say that's their best bet if they wanted Awe to succeed on a huge level. However, the writers have said in their musings about writings that ambiguous endings rarely work in Hollywood and that there are a TON of unused scripts floating about with that ambiguity.

There has to be some sort of a clear cut decision made by one of the characters. It doesn't necessarily have to be Elizabeth. Jack's priorities may change (seems unlikely given the pieces of the script we've seen), Will's priorities may also change. He does have this new motivation of adding his father to his life.

What is set-up is a matter of the characters not trusting each other, and how it was that trust in the first movie that allowed them to navigate in the pirate world. So, there needs to be a reconciliation of some sorts for them to capably face Beckett and the ETTC.

i will be fine with an ambiguous ending as long as it is coupled with adventurous, happy music and a "drinks all around" type feeling.

but like you said, they dont do ambiguous endings. something tells me they wont pull one this time around. the ending will probably be shocking, but i reckon it will be definitive.

kate, you really did scared me lol

I was pissed off at you because I thought " Why is this girl putting a negative thread to cause a chaos!"

So please forgive me that I didn't trust you

The important thing is that everybody has faith

hahaha chiki, time to dig up the therapy thread.

no, i didnt lose faith. i still think all the theories and hints make sense, i think they're the better couple and all that.

it was just a gut feeling after watching teh commentary.

I dont know where my therapy thread has been lol

To tell you the truth Im just passing by to check on how everybody is doing. I was a little worried that some people are a little scared about some comments on the dvd. Im so glad you guys are doing alright.

I dont have the dvd I cant till I dunno when, till im done with these cursed finals.

I think it's good to get all the negative feelings out and talk about them. I makes people feel better to get them out. I still have hope and have not giving up. I really do still believe that J/E will be together.

Yup

Lovely if you're here, Im a member at kttc, that Jack/Liz shippers are very very sweet people.

But the will/liz shippers are complete assholes. Its ok to be a EW shipper but at least be nice

You know what they were calling Jack....a horn dog

I'm member at KTTC too Mina. I've seen you over there I wanted to say hello. I will the next time you post.

ohhh geee you guys be careful over there its pretty scary.

I keep at the Jack/Liz shipper thread. They are very nice people. I stay away from the thunderdome, and other threads.

Jack/Lizzie Forever....no matter what the outcome!!!!

If nothing else, there are always the sequels we wrote up and the kiss they shared in DMC. They'll always have that. While I'm not convinced they'll end up together in the films, it's kind of like the Scarlett/Rhett deal. They'll be together, but we may just not get to see it.

yeah, and im okay with that. my imagination is in pretty good working condition. today anyways. that kiss. its just... epic. for the ages. i really dont think they can top it. and we've got in on dvd forever.

Ya no matter what the outcome that Kiss did not decieve us....its there for a reason! I felt the passion in that Kiss!! So i know it was true!

yeah I agree with kate..the vibe I got from the DVD was that we won't get a DEFINITE JE ending..definitely not. T&T are WE shippers but I will always be a JE shipper...FOREVER..I don't care if they don't end up together. I always have my imagination and it will never fail me.


and I just HOPE that all of you fellow JE shippers -IF we don't get the ending we want that is- accept it like kate did -I haven't yet..I mean i know it's probably not gonna happen but I just can't excpet it- but I also hope that you'll never abonden this ship.

plus like piratediva said...there was definite PASSION in that kiss and they CAN'T take that away

I finally just watched bits and peices of the commentary, and I am pleased to know that all the clues and innuendos we picked up on about Jack and Lizzie were right on the money. They say that Jack is vexed by Elizabeth, Jack is thinking about Elizabeth....Elizabeth and Jack have a stong attraction toward each other...and that she did what she did to Jack not only to save Will....but to get rid of the temptation of Jack, if Jack's dead he can no longer confuse her....its funny how when we said that a while back some people came on here and said that we were crazy...but I heard it straight out of the mouths of that two T and T bozos...not really, they are genious...but I agree, Kate...and Lovely, they have backed themselves into a corner with this one....

I'm glad to know that we weren't crazy and that everything we thought was going on...is.....that makes me happy...now lets see if what we know to be true....comes to pass in AWE....I just know the tension between Liz and Jack has got to be hot...it just has to....the actors have such chemistry its sizzling...love my DVD...but haven't been able to see all the stuff on it yet.....

I too have imagined many great and hot and beautiful scenes between Jack and Liz...and at this point, that may be all I get....but I'm still hoping.....they gotta know the people want Jack and Liz...and they keep saying they like taking risk and doing the unexpected....please.....