Click HERE to see this thread with all of the graphics, features, and links.

who is your favourite side

Hasnt this been done not long ago? Oh well. CIS for me. They are an extremely wealthy group of organisations all obsessed with becoming richer and more powerful. They can mass produce droid armies and simply overwhelm the enemy through numbers - as shown in many of the CW battles. Droids are also quick and cheap to make - as oppose to the Republic who have to grow new clones, or the Rebellion who have to recruit new soldiers.

Im a big fan of classics like 1/2 or 3/4.

ya

Empire. I really do enjoy such order and power.

Traitors. ALL of you.

Originally posted by AstroFan
Im a big fan of classics like 1/2 or 3/4.

ROTFLMFAO hysterical that was my thought as well

It's faction and this topic has been covered before.

But for the record, The Empire

Originally posted by Alliance
Traitors. ALL of you.
except me!

No. You're the worst of them all.

likely.

bawling

Whiner.

DUH. Look what faction he supports.

I don't wanna know.

CIS and Empire

Originally posted by Alliance
DUH. Look what faction he supports.

Thats fraction.

Oh...Silly me.

Originally posted by Alliance
DUH. Look what faction he supports.
republic

The droids kick ass *****

Especially when they got their asses kicked.

Repeatedly.

By my boys, no less.

No they didn't they like killed the republic if they keeped on fighting the republic would have beendeath[/sm

The Republic was great, but they were getting screwed by the sheer numbers the CIS had. The opening credits of ROTS says something to that effect if I remember correctly.

Originally posted by samle
No they didn't they like killed the republic if they keeped on fighting the republic would have beendeath

In your dreams gearhead.

Originally posted by Rampant ox
The Republic was great, but they were getting screwed by the sheer numbers the CIS had. The opening credits of ROTS says something to that effect if I remember correctly.

Screwed is relative. The CIS had numbers. The Republic had skill. Taky your pick. Its obvious where my loyalties lie.

It always was.

REALLY!

Originally posted by samle
No they didn't they like killed the republic if they keeped on fighting the republic would have beendeath Lay off the deathsticks, they're addling your brains.

Originally posted by samle
No they didn't they like killed the republic if they keeped on fighting the republic would have beendeath
um...er...grammar check

Kenobi check!

Get Cody down here.

No, he shoots Jedi.

Whats your point?

Aruetii.

Ah yes, you hate the wimpy Jedi... I get it.

Maybe I just hate forceusers.

Maybe you hate SW...

HEY!

WHAT?

Totally not cool.

Well, you want to change so much about SW, so many essential elements, that the question only comes natural.

Maybe i want to change it because I love it so much I acutally want it to be successful.

IS that how you feel about your girlfriend?

There is a difference between people and art.

Dunno... would you separate Van Gogh from his paintings? They kinda become void without his intentions I think.

The difference is Van Gogh actually succeded in his intent.

Lucas said one thing, but appears to have done another.

And yet: there it is.

He obviously made the saga, but things arent correct.

1. Why is Kenobi only able to defeat Maul once he gets angry?

2. How can one Sith lord blind every Jedi from seeing his presence?

3. How do we relate Anakin's prophecy to the force?

4. Why are there contradictory opinons of the force in the films?

5. Why are Jedi teachings so flawed if they are the good guys?

Lucas's opinion can't answer these questions. Mine can.

That's why we have forums...

and then again: answers aren't everything? Plus it shows that the PT is flawed, and yet changing it doesn't help.

Lucas said he made the PT to correct our perspectives.

Its amazing that you'll hug his opinon on anything else, yet refuse to admit that people perceptions of Vader in the OT was not what he intended.

Clearly then, if you take that position, you have no right to deny mine.

He corrected it allright... he showed that with a lot of money you can screw up a couple of films and still make tons of money.

But I see the flaws, but I dont see the point in correcting them in an alternative universe. Like you can do so much better with someone else's work where you basically don't have tp invent all the principles, the universe etc...
As I said: do you think that way about your girlfriend too, taht you want to correct eveyrthing you don't like about her? I mean, you take SW as Lucas sees it or not. Including its flaws... and the PT has many.

No. What he did was screw up your interpretation of the films. Nothing more. Just because you interpreted it "wrongly" based on evidence within the films.

(using your developed logic of course)

?????

You are teh one changing the nature of the Force. Lucas is very clear on it. So whose interpretation is it?

I interpret it a Lucas says, now whether he did a good job that is another matter. I feel he was too sloppy.

Thats EXACTLY how I feel. I feel he didn't do it right.

Lucas is clearly agisnt what your conception of Vader was.

Yeah, tehre is no disagreement there. I just fell you have to take it for what it is: flawed here and there.

At least we agree that its flawed.

However, I have found a way that it is not flawed.

We always agreed on the flaws... we don't agree what to do with it.

Thats because I'm actually doing somehting with it.

I just accept it.

I feel there is somethign greater to be gained, that brilliant work can have a brilliant message, even if it is not the meassage of the creator.

amen.

Err.... something greater? SW is pop culture entertainment pal, not some significant contribution to art in general.

I was speaking personally, that is the primary goal of art you know.

Oh?

Yes. And I'm not a shmuck saying that. I'm an artist myself.

I'd just like to point out to everyone how much the Seperatists suck.

HA! The Confederacy Of Independant Systems crippled your corrupt Republic and very nearly toppled it completely. Your pathetic Clones were out numbered hundreds to one by the Droid Army and would have been wiped out had Sidious not ordered the Droid Facilities to be shut down. Even with the whole Jedi Order on the Republics side, they still couldnt stand up to Count Dooku and his affiliates.

blah blah blah...we've heard it all before.

The CIS was more corrupt than the Republic. So much for solving that problem.

The CIS was power hungry and arrogant, although I would hardly call them corrupt. The Republic however was under the lead of a sith lord who wanted to turn the Government into a dictatorship, thousands of systems against the war while at the same time thousands for it, and a Jedi Order who was blatantly arrogant and wanted to remove the Chancellor anyway (and at that point in time they had no knowledge of him being a sith). So the Republic was in mayhem in dissaray within their ranks, whereas despite being power hungry tyrants, the CIS had one clear goal in mind.

"Power hungry and arrogant" people aren't corrupt?

Depends on how you define corrupt I guess.

Originally posted by Rampant ox
Depends on how you define corrupt I guess.

Power hungry and arrogant, pretty much.

I would say that if something was 'corrupt', it would have a person(s) within the establishment working for personal gain and/or against the fundamental values the establishment upholds. The Republic is a prime example of this, as it has Darth Sidious leading it to destruction. The CIS however, despite having questionable values, all work for the same end result - therefore are not 'corrupt' as such.

Originally posted by Rampant ox
I would say that if something was 'corrupt', it would have a person(s) within the establishment working for personal gain and/or against the fundamental values the establishment upholds. The Republic is a prime example of this, as it has Darth Sidious leading it to destruction. The CIS however, despite having questionable values, all work for the same end result - therefore are not 'corrupt' as such.

I hope you are not so biased and so blind as to suggest that the founding members of the Confederacy - as well as Count Dooku and Sidious themselves - weren't corrupt. Gunray is a perfect example of someone within the establishment working for personal gain. It was the single reason he joined the CIS. Count Dooku was persuaded to think that this was working for his personal gain as well - by Darth Sidious, hence why he was willing to use the council and Grievous as pawns for his master.

The entire CIS philosophy was founded on "personal gain" under a guise of democracy and justice.

They were as just as corrupt as the Republic they battled, and that was the irony to them. They were equally corrupt, and pawns to the one person who was responsible for decaying the galaxy's governments.

Originally posted by Rampant ox
I would say that if something was 'corrupt', it would have a person(s) within the establishment working for personal gain and/or against the fundamental values the establishment upholds. The Republic is a prime example of this, as it has Darth Sidious leading it to destruction. The CIS however, despite having questionable values, all work for the same end result - therefore are not 'corrupt' as such.

The end result being their personal empowerment.

The republic on the othoer hand has elements not functioning for their own benefit.


Your analysis sucks. Don't confuse corruption in the Senate to be a Republic wide cancer. THe CIS was born a tumor of corruption and it died one when it was blasted into hell.

Originally posted by Gideon
I hope you are not so biased and so blind as to suggest that the founding members of the Confederacy - as well as Count Dooku and Sidious themselves - weren't corrupt. Gunray is a perfect example of someone within the establishment working for personal gain. It was the single reason he joined the CIS. Count Dooku was persuaded to think that this was working for his personal gain as well - by Darth Sidious, hence why he was willing to use the council and Grievous as pawns for his master.

The entire CIS philosophy was founded on "personal gain" under a guise of democracy and justice.

They were as just as corrupt as the Republic they battled, and that was the irony to them. They were equally corrupt, and pawns to the one person who was responsible for decaying the galaxy's governments.

Fair enough. Sidious himself played both sides of the war, lied to both sides, and used both sides as pawns for personal gain. On that front then yes, I guess you could say that the CIS was corrupt. However everyone below Sidious in the hierachy was working for the same cause - the collapse of the existing Government.

Count Dooku was the CIS' political figure head, and it was his ambition to destroy the corrupt Republic and form his own. The Trade Federation, Techno Union, Banking Clan etc were their for personal gain, I wont deny that, but were still working for the same end result. The CIS and all of its members were not their plotting to take each other over and they had not lost trust in their leaders (at least not while Dooku was alive). Therefore the CIS ranks, excluding Sidious, were not corrupt.

So yes, while almost everyone withing the CIS had personal benefit on their mind, they all wanted the same result. There wasnt anyone within their ranks working against them (bar Sidious), therefore are not corrupt (at least not to me). However I guess the point is that they werent nearly as corrupt and unstable as the Republic they sought to destroy.

Corruption doesnt mean internal competing influences, it means competing against the global good for personal gain.

The CIS IS corruption.

You imply that the global good is the Republic. But the Republic was no longer the immaculate Government the galaxy looked up to. It was arrogant and flawed in many ways, for example the fact that all decisions had to be debated endlessly before a decision was made. They try solving this by appointing Palpatine as Chancellor and giving him emergency powers, but this did nothing but esculate the problem. The Government was crumbling, and they try stopping it by giving one corrupt manipulator full control.

So if you look at it from that view, the CIS was fighting for a new Government, a Government that was not falling apart and could essentially prove more effective than the existing system. Therefore the CIS would not be corrupt at all, in stark contrast to what the Republic had become.

The govenment was crumbling becase some arrogant b@stards decided to attack it. It was not crumbing before. It needed a clean-up.

The Republic was corrupt, no question, EVERY government is. However, its a whole of a hell lot less corrupt that the CIS. EVERY memeber of the CIS joined for their personal gain. That is blatant corruption on the highest magnitude.

The CIS was not more effective than the Republic. IT was a military terrorist organization headed at every level by the most corrupt organizaitons in the galaxy.

Being out for personal gain does not make one corrupt. However if you try to achieve something for your own personal benefit, and in doing so directly work against the establishment in which you are a part of, then yes you would be corrupt. However nobody in the CIS falls into this category.

Arrogant and greedy they might be, but they all worked in unison to achieve a single goal. Despite their questionable methods and values, nobody within the CIS ranks was corrupt, and depending on how you look at it, the CIS as a whole was not corrupt either. They were merely working to form a better Government than what already existed.

However I personally wont deny that the CIS would have been the 'antagonist' of the two factions. But I do always enjoy the darker side of politics.

Thats the most cr@ptastic definition of corruption I ever heard. THe CIS is out for nothing but its own personal enrichment. The people and the organization. Its a friggin parasite.

They're unified goal was mass-corruption. To put themselves at the head of the galaxy.

There is NOTHING, NOTHING NOTHING NOTHING more corrupt than that.

Their unified goal was not "mass corruption," but to make themselves the new government of the galaxy, in their minds, they were doing good by getting rid of the Republic and instilling their ways. Yeah, they were trying to put themselves at the head of the government, but how does that make someone corrupt? And if it weren't for Sidious shutting down the droids, the CIS would have won.

Originally posted by Alliance
I'd just like to point out to everyone how much the Seperatists suck.

Don't you always?

Originally posted by General G
Their unified goal was not "mass corruption," but to make themselves the new government of the galaxy, in their minds, they were doing good by getting rid of the Republic and instilling their ways. Yeah, they were trying to put themselves at the head of the government, but how does that make someone corrupt? And if it weren't for Sidious shutting down the droids, the CIS would have won.

Each of the Confederacy's Council-members joined the damn thing for self-gain. "Restoring peace and justice to the galaxy" is fine and dandy, but when such a thing is being dealt by a corrupt and evil individual, it is for self gain. Otherwise, I suppose Palpatine's actions were completely justifiable and he really wanted to help everybody and make peace. Please. He wanted to rule the galaxy because he was a megalomaniac. Not because he actually cared about the galaxy or its denizens themselves.

The CIS was identical. By ruling the galaxy, they'd make a hell of a profit than under the Republic's taxation.

Originally posted by General G
Their unified goal was not "mass corruption," but to make themselves the new government of the galaxy, in their minds, they were doing good by getting rid of the Republic and instilling their ways. Yeah, they were trying to put themselves at the head of the government, but how does that make someone corrupt? And if it weren't for Sidious shutting down the droids, the CIS would have won.

You really think an alliance of the

COMMERCE guild, BANKING clan, TRADE federation, CORPORATE alliance, and various other entities was out "for the good of the galaxy?

They're overthrowing a functioning government, placing themselves at the head for their own personal enrichment. Thats like the archtype of corruption.

The Chancellor may have shut down the droids, but my boys' plasma shut down more. Not to mention Anakin decapitated all your corrupt-@ss officials who were sitting around sipping champagne to celebrate their aspirations of poltical domination. Like a fricking alien country club.

So, after we finsihed plasma-coating your alien asses, the galaxy was once again safe from terrorist corruption, which is why we nationalized all your friggin industries from your slimy thre-fingered hands.

Do they put any knowledge into your programming? or is it just all instructions on how to die?

The only real reason for that alliance was for Palpy to destroy it with his Clones. I'm sure Dooku convinced them they were fighting for the good of the galaxy. Their good no doubt, but still.

Originally posted by Alliance
You really think an alliance of the

COMMERCE guild, BANKING clan, TRADE federation, CORPORATE alliance, and various other entities was out "for the good of the galaxy?

They're overthrowing a functioning government, placing themselves at the head for their own personal enrichment. Thats like the archtype of corruption.

The Chancellor may have shut down the droids, but my boys' plasma shut down more. Not to mention Anakin decapitated all your corrupt-@ss officials who were sitting around sipping champagne to celebrate their aspirations of poltical domination. Like a fricking alien country club.

So, after we finsihed plasma-coating your alien asses, the galaxy was once again safe from terrorist corruption, which is why we nationalized all your friggin industries from your slimy thre-fingered hands.

Do they put any knowledge into your programming? or is it just all instructions on how to die?

Even the Sith aren't going to war so they can "destroy everything and kill everybody," they want to make the galaxy the way they think it should be like, whatever that may be. So, yeah, the CIS is just trying to make the galaxy the way they feel it should be like, even if it mean overthrowing a corrupt government system like the Republic. And yes, the Republic is corrupt, they were being led by a Sith Lord and were trying to search for him the entire time while he was orchestrating the entire war, thats pretty corrupt.

Your boys did so according to the Chancellor's bidding, a.k.a. The SITH LORD! And your boys didn't win the war, Sidious did by ordering Anakin to shut down the droids, so the Clones were just tools.

Your starting to sound like Dooku and hating all other aliens.

And yes, we stuck them with some arithmatic too

Originally posted by General G
Even the Sith aren't going to war so they can "destroy everything and kill everybody," they want to make the galaxy the way they think it should be like, whatever that may be. So, yeah, the CIS is just trying to make the galaxy the way they feel it should be like, even if it mean overthrowing a corrupt government system like the Republic. And yes, the Republic is corrupt, they were being led by a Sith Lord and were trying to search for him the entire time while he was orchestrating the entire war, thats pretty corrupt.

Your boys did so according to the Chancellor's bidding, a.k.a. The SITH LORD! And your boys didn't win the war, Sidious did by ordering Anakin to shut down the droids, so the Clones were just tools.

Your starting to sound like Dooku and hating all other aliens.

And yes, we stuck them with some arithmatic too

The CIS thinkgs the galaxy should be subservient to them and no one else. Just because the Republic is corrupt DOESNT give legitmiation for a military dissolution of the government at ALL. The CIS would have to come up with something better, which, they didn't.

You forget that my boys were under the direct command of the delusional Jedi. Palpatine could over-rule the Jedi, but rarely did. I don't care who is in charge of the Republic. Palpatine was elected and thats mroe than I can say for any of your beaurocratic cronies. Palpatine was the only thing holding us back from raping your metal asses. He's not perfect, in fact hes a real ass, but he did right during the war.

Clones have a xenophobic streak, what can I say?

The clones were not in direct command of the jedi, they just happenned to listen to them, they were in direct command from PALPATINE, the leader of the Republic.

We did what we felt had to be done to get rid of your way of government whihc was pretty crappy, which just happenned to be taking it by force

Apparently you aren't familiar with the concept of command. The Jedi decided where the clones went, when, and who led them. Not much mroe too it, becides financing.

You reasons are pathetic and have already been debunked. Thanks for playing

Games not over yet, it's just getten started

Thats what all the newbs say at checkmate.

Clones were under direct control of Palpy. Order 66 proves that. The Jedi just acted as generals, so in situ they were in charge of (some) armies. But the real commander was Palpy. Like George W. Clown... he's the commander in chief, but there are generals in between him and the soldiers.

quiet so but... i think the CIS had ALOT more funding and tech.
CIS didnt have skill but do you realy need skill to win the war?
no, you need numbers.

i prove my point....

Originally posted by Nellis Munn
do you realy need skill to win the war? Yes.

Of course you need skill.... tsssssssssssssss....

Skills actually aren't really necessary to winning a war... You could have all the skill in the world, but if the other team outnumbers you like 40 000 to 1, I really don't think your gonna win, no matter how much skill you have.

NOTE: Not saying the CIS outnumbered the clones 40 000 to 1, just as an example

That's taking it to extremes. It is however possible by excellent tactic to beat a bigger army. Alexander the Great proved that and it Roman times that was proven as well. 40,000 to 1 is extreme, but it is thinkable that and army of 20,000 well trained and well led soldier CAn beat an army of 40,000. It has been done and that comes down to SKILL!!

Yes, I wasn't arguing that skill wasn't a good thing to have, it is a great asset in a war! It just isn't NECESSARY if you have the greater numbers by a good margin.

i never liked the clones didnt have camo in there suroundings a white trooper in the forest..... siting duck lol did they get camo in ep.3?

hey the CIS is winning..... -.-

Originally posted by General G
Yes, I wasn't arguing that skill wasn't a good thing to have, it is a great asset in a war! It just isn't NECESSARY if you have the greater numbers by a good margin.

I disagree. A big army with no skill is just cannon fodder.

But a little army with lots of skill against extremely overwhelming numbers, the bigger army will just be too much for the smaller, even if the smaller kills almost all of them

Depends on how crappy the big army is.

the dam jedi had skill and wth happened to them!?

poor jedi....

Kill all Jedi!

Originally posted by queeq
Depends on how crappy the big army is.

True

Originally posted by Nellis Munn
the dam jedi had skill and wth happened to them!?

poor jedi....

They were doing fine, until the very skilled clones in large numbers turned against them.

ya i kno the only one surived was yoda well there was only two of then commander gree and that other clone easy with mundi there was .... 11...12?

and yoda had those wookies even if there were more clones yoda would still of goten away...

The Jedi also got pwned at Geonosis by the overwhelming number of droids.

The Germans were very skilled in WWII, with excellent technology for the times. But the Allies just had more lesser-skilled stuff. So they won, eventually.

It did involve skill though. Monty beat the Germans in the desert through skill, and so did Patton in the Bulge. D-Day was a matter of numbers but also of strategy by using the element of surprise. If the Germans had known that was the exact spot, I doubt the invasion would have been a success..

The Jedi got what they deserved.

ya but what was real funny when dooku got his hands and head cut off,and general grevios was shot to death.....

Yeah it was shooper doopur funnee.

They all deserved to die.

Of course, they were baddies.

Originally posted by Rampant ox
Hasnt this been done not long ago? Oh well. CIS for me. They are an extremely wealthy group of organisations all obsessed with becoming richer and more powerful. They can mass produce droid armies and simply overwhelm the enemy through numbers - as shown in many of the CW battles. Droids are also quick and cheap to make - as oppose to the Republic who have to grow new clones, or the Rebellion who have to recruit new soldiers.

You forgot to mention they were led by Dooku.


Any who; LONG LIVE THE GALACTIC EMPIRE!! What can I say? They were uber cool. Imperial Star Destroyers, Super Star Destroyers, Death Star I & II, Tie Fighters/Bombers/Defenders/Intercepters, Storm Troopers, Dark Phase Troopers, AT-STs, AT-ATs, and of course my all time favorite Star Wars character: Darth Vader.

Originally posted by queeq
Of course, they were baddies.

Even the Jedi? Because they were baddies too.

In your completely made up sense of the word only.

Touche, Alliance.

Can someone get queeq some pom poms? blowjob

And no, I find Ush's statement shallow.

poor rebles...........

lol even tho the good count got pwned....(sorry dooku fans)

yep, i'm with the Rebellion OR the 'Alliance to Restore the Republic' as some poeple call it

I'm with the One true Republic.

Originally posted by Alliance
Can someone get queeq some pom poms? blowjob

And no, I find Ush's statement shallow.

Shallow but correct. Deepness is never the judge for truth.

I'd use the word 'apt'.

Touche again.

Originally posted by queeq
Shallow but correct. Deepness is never the judge for truth.

I'm not saying it is, however if you never break the surface of the water, you're shure as hell going to have a hard time seeing what's underneath.

As you said, maybe there's nothing there. But deep truths are more accurate than shallow ones. Maybe we should at least look and make sure we have a good grasp on the situation before we come to judgements. Baconian philosophy.

Spout all the mumbo jumbo you like; I have as much respect for a comment saying that Jedi are villains that I have for one saying that the Moon is made of yoghurt. It's so self-evidently wrong that it doesn't even deserve the time of day as an argument; a contemptuous put down is what it is due.

Yes, because comparing ficition and fact is just a brilliant move.

Apparently I'm not mentally mature enough to have my own opinion. The concepts that support my arguemets were addressed in the films, no matter how many times you chose to bury your head in the sand.

"Have you ever considered that we may be on the wrong side?"

Looks like someone needs to watch the films again. Or at least learn what fiction and art are and what they mean to society.

The Jedi were villains because they were duped? They were villains because they were ignorant? They deserve death for that? Geez, I thought I was a radical person.

They were ignorant. They abandonded their principles. They served an evil entity and were totally complacent in confronting the true threat to the Republic.

The Order deserved its death, unquestionably. When the Jedi failed to be Jedi and became something else, that is when they lost their credibility.

So by that rationale, those who support Darth Bush, but aren't aware of his true evil agenda, all deserve to die for their ignorance? Or does what your saying only apply in Star Wars?

I really don't think Bush=Palpatine and there are far to many inconsitancies to make an accurate comparison.

The Jedi knew Palpatine was a threat long before they knew he was a Sith. Yet they did nothing to stop him and continued to support him. They were not average people, they posessed tremendous power in the Republic. They not only supported Palps, they enforced his policies and completely abandonded their moral authority.

Look, Alliance likes clones and hates the rest. End of story.

Originally posted by Alliance
I really don't think Bush=Palpatine and there are far to many inconsitancies to make an accurate comparison.

The Jedi knew Palpatine was a threat long before they knew he was a Sith. Yet they did nothing to stop him and continued to support him. They were not average people, they posessed tremendous power in the Republic. They not only supported Palps, they enforced his policies and completely abandonded their moral authority. Every soldier in Nazi Germany then? It was just an example.

The Jedi knew he was a threat to the stability and security of the Republic? I can see that around the ROTS time, the whole spying on the Chancellor thing, but when else did they see it? (I really don't know, so pardon my ignorance).

Even so, what could they do? "Sorry, we think your a threat, we're gonna have to throw our values to the wind and take you down, despite lack of evidence." And unless your saying the Jedi take physical control of the Palpatine-supporting Senate, what could they when they had only speculation?

Originally posted by queeq
Look, Alliance likes clones and hates the rest. End of story.
Wrong. I like them because they are the fulcrum of this SAGA. They represent the plot of the films like no other concept. my fascination is a result of my analysis, not the other way around.

Wow... a real debate. Senseless, but a real debate.

It's been a while, it's kind of interesting...People should start more

Yeah...

*sigh*

Guess it's dead now...

This stinks

who cares?

it gave me joy...

jawdrop

The end.