Blind Spider-man vs Daredevil

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Sam Z
DD has his radar, Spidey has his spider-sense to make sure he will not get his a$$ handed to him.
Fight in NY.
Who wins?

seaapple
Daredevil, I think. Spidey will have a hard time hitting him, though he will be able to use his Spider sense to dodge to some degree and is so strong Daredevil will have to be careful not to get hit.

My question is how Daredevil can either hit Spider-Man in the right spot from a distance or how he can hit him up close without getting hit back. If Daredevil can figure out how to hurt Spider-Man he wins. Otherwise it is a stalemate unless Daredevil does something stupid and risky.

Good fight idea.

Metalmanx
Spidey wins. As good as Daredevil is at being blind, the spider-sense might as well be perfect vision for Spidey. erm

golem370
I don't know in Infinity Wars Daredevil detected the Gamma Bomb before it was armed.

golem370
Does Daredevil know Spidey's blind?

masterbruce
Originally posted by Metalmanx
Spidey wins. As good as Daredevil is at being blind, the spider-sense might as well be perfect vision for Spidey. erm

sad

jawdrop

blink no expression What the f**k?

capt it up
Originally posted by Metalmanx
Spidey wins. As good as Daredevil is at being blind, the spider-sense might as well be perfect vision for Spidey. erm
no it not. it does nto show him what the attack is, but simply the dirrecting. it also won't help him to land hits

Sparkz
Originally posted by capt it up
no it not. it does nto show him what the attack is, but simply the dirrecting. it also won't help him to land hits

Actualy when Spidey went blind in a comic (guest stariing DD) after a while his Spider sense compensated so he could react even if he could see.

My Questoon has Spidey had time to adjust or just gone blind?

Sam Z
Spider-man has a week to adjust and DD knows that Peter is blind.

Alfheim
Originally posted by Metalmanx
Spidey wins. As good as Daredevil is at being blind, the spider-sense might as well be perfect vision for Spidey. erm

Thats distressing.

Sparkz
Ok then well the way his Spider sense compensated it acted like DD's Radar sense, this could go either way as I'm sure DD would no how to exploit the weaknes's of it while Spidey won't have.

I'd give DD the majority due to that knowledge.

Metalmanx
Originally posted by masterbruce
sad

jawdrop

blink no expression What the f**k?

Go read a comic, will you? What I said was true.

It paints a 360 degree image all around him. That's how he doesn't run into things in the dark, he isn't snuck up on, he can fight in complete darkness, etc., etc.

batdude123
Daredevil.

Alfheim
Originally posted by Metalmanx
Go read a comic, will you? What I said was true.

It paints a 360 degree image all around him. That's how he doesn't run into things in the dark, he isn't snuck up on, he can fight in complete darkness, etc., etc.

Damn thats like radar sense on a lower level. Surely he must be at some disadvantage.

Soljer
Originally posted by Alfheim
Damn thats like radar sense on a lower level. Surely he must be at some disadvantage.

It's more like radar sense on a higher level....

ExtraMision5555
Spidey blind?
Well, then he probably loses.
Sure, spidersense might keep him from getting hit (sometimes) but,
Spiderman is blind.
That combind with DD's radar sense (which acts as movement precog)
Spiderman loses via pressure point(s) stimulation

grey fox
Originally posted by ExtraMision5555
Spidey blind?
Well, then he probably loses.
Sure, spidersense might keep him from getting hit (sometimes) but,
Spiderman is blind.
That combind with DD's radar sense (which acts as movement precog)
Spiderman loses via pressure point(s) stimulation

Please , explain to me whats so difficult about spidey simply waiting, his SS to kick off and then to flail around using his full strength. He'll hit SOMETHING , and at FS he should hopefully break a bone or two.

hulk10
DD YOU IDIOT!

Alfheim
Originally posted by Soljer
It's more like radar sense on a higher level....

Im sure DD's sense have always been greater than Spiderman's.

grey fox
Originally posted by hulk10
DD YOU IDIOT!

Your a fool

Originally posted by Alfheim
Im sure DD's sense have always been greater than Spiderman's.

Nope , DD can only utilize his 'Radar Sense' particular focus on the radar. Spider-sense is a mild form of pre-cog.

Pre cog >>>>Radar

Soljer
Originally posted by Alfheim
Im sure DD's sense have always been greater than Spiderman's.

Well.....

DD's senses can alert him to electrical or chemical impulses inside one's body.

Spiderman's Spidersense actually gives him a pseudo-precognitive WARNING.

grey fox
Originally posted by Soljer
Well.....

DD's senses can alert him to electrical or chemical impulses inside one's body.

Spiderman's Spidersense actually gives him a pseudo-precognitive WARNING.

Originally posted by grey fox



Nope , DD can only utilize his 'Radar Sense' particular focus on the radar. Spider-sense is a mild form of pre-cog.

Pre cog >>>>Radar

Alfheim
Originally posted by Soljer
Well.....

DD's senses can alert him to electrical or chemical impulses inside one's body.

Spiderman's Spidersense actually gives him a pseudo-precognitive WARNING.

Er so does DD's they just dont call it pre-cog. Pre-cog is just knowing things before they happen even Cap has that on a lower level.

I dont think Spiderman can tell if somebody lying.

Soljer
Originally posted by Alfheim
Er so does DD's they just dont call it pre-cog. Pre-cog is just knowing things before they happen even Cap has that on a lower level.

I dont think Spiderman can tell if somebody lying.

Because that matters when Daredevil is about to get his spine knocked out of his body?

Sparkz
Originally posted by Alfheim
Er so does DD's they just dont call it pre-cog. Pre-cog is just knowing things before they happen even Cap has that on a lower level.

I dont think Spiderman can tell if somebody lying.

No but his Spider- sense can tell him when someone is dangerouse or suspiouse so that could help with a being a very low form of lie detector.

Alfheim
Originally posted by Soljer
Because that matters when Daredevil is about to get his spine knocked out of his body?

The point is that DD's senses are more accurate than Spidermans. If his sense can do that then it will make all the difference to DD;

Sparkz
But when Spidey went blind his senses were "hightened" he could hear heart beats etc, not on DD's level but it was still pretty good, not to mention his Spider sense became a radar again probaly not to DD's level but enough for him to tell what was going on around him.

grey fox
Originally posted by Alfheim
The point is that DD's senses are more accurate than Spidermans. If his sense can do that then it will make all the difference to DD;

WTF ?

Spidey sense gives him an accurate , 360 degree warning of where the thing is thats about to hurt him. DD's allows him to see.

Thats really it.

Alfheim
Originally posted by grey fox
WTF ?

Spidey sense gives him an accurate , 360 degree warning of where the thing is thats about to hurt him. DD's allows him to see.

Thats really it.

DD's senses do the samething

Bald Bugger
Originally posted by masterbruce
sad

jawdrop

blink no expression What the f**k? Thats what we think about 99.9 percent of your posts.

grey fox
Originally posted by Alfheim
DD's senses do the samething

No they dont.

Heres an example.
__________________


X

X O

__________________

The X's are gunshots , this around 1 second before their actually fired , thus he knows to go to the O

Whereas DD's allows him just gives him sonar which is this.

http://pubs.usgs.gov/fs/lake-michigan/images/sonar.gif

Superherovandal
DD really shouldn't dodge bullets or lasers cause by the time the sound waves reach back the bullets should be near him and the lasers would reach him before the sound would.

Grimm22
DD 8-9/10

Matt has been blind for more than half of his life

Experience pwns yes

Accel
I'd give this to DD, He regularly manages to do just fine against a Spidey who can see just fine.

jrodslam
Daredevil takes this. And DD's radar/senses > Spidey sense. They both are a form of pre-cog. Daredevil's is just a bit more accurate and precise.

marvelprince
Spider-Man wins. He kills Daredevil normally an while being blind may drag things on a bit Spider-Man will take him.

Being blind doesn't change much things for Spider-Man, especially if he has his spider-sense. He's used his spider-sense in his aim for years w/o his eyes. He uses it every day for Pete's sake. When he's web swinging the reason his web line will always hit something solid is cause if his spider-sense directing him.

ExtraMision5555
Originally posted by grey fox
Please , explain to me whats so difficult about spidey simply waiting, his SS to kick off and then to flail around using his full strength. He'll hit SOMETHING , and at FS he should hopefully break a bone or two.

And hypotheticly, spidey might pull of an extremely random win that way, i was going to mention that actually.

Other than that, Spiderman is probably done. he cant see, which is an incredible disavantage here.

All he has is his spidersense here, but no vision. Daredevil is going to be reading spidermans clumsy flailing movements this entire fight and short of being caught in an akward position, should have no problem avoiding them. Basicly, with daredevil telegraphing spidermans entire movements VIA Radar sense, spiderman just loses.

And in my opinion, Radar sense is like a more 'intelligent' spidersense, as daredevil can consciously control what to focus his senses on. Thats not to say spidersense isint good (because it is), its just that radar sense, ESPECIALLY, in this scenario, can potentially be more formitable.
IMO, though.

marvelprince
I agree that radar sense is more useful in this fight, and it this was a normal human then I'd give Daredevil then win. Point is though its not. Spider-Man only needs one hit to put Matt down. One. With his spider-sense guiding him he's gonna get it. Look at some Spider-Man back issues. He's been blinded before and had to rely on his spider-sense to move, he's closed his eyes and just used his spider-sense to direct him to weak spots plus he uses it everyday to travel. Don't underestimate the spider-sense

jrodslam
If a Spiderman with his full sight cant even land clean hits on DD, a blind one most definately isnt. I do agree with you prince IF Spidey lands one good hit, its over for DD. Thats just highly unlikely.

seaapple
While my post, the first in this thread, may not have offered a definitive answer...

I think it summarizes most of the debate up to this point pretty succinctly.

raver (pats self on back) wink

I agree with this quote, but it ignores the question of how DD will hit Batman without getting hit. I don't think throwing the billy club will do it.

DD is in his element here. Everyone knows Spider-Sense is basically an intuitive warning sense. It will help, but not enough.

The only question is whether DD has enough power.

I think that somehow he probably does.

But it isn't cut and dry. He cannot make any mistakes with this one!

Originally posted by jrodslam
If a Spiderman with his full sight cant even land clean hits on DD, a blind one most definately isnt. I do agree with you prince IF Spidey lands one good hit, its over for DD. Thats just highly unlikely.

Alfheim
Originally posted by grey fox
No they dont.

Heres an example.
__________________


X

X O

__________________

The X's are gunshots , this around 1 second before their actually fired , thus he knows to go to the O

Whereas DD's allows him just gives him sonar which is this.

http://pubs.usgs.gov/fs/lake-michigan/images/sonar.gif

I see what you are saying but your logic doesnt work. I know you are saying that Spiderman gets warned one second before it happens, but why wouldnt radar sense do that as well? For example DD can hear somebodys heart beat and he can determine wether a person is going to attack him or not. Thats just one example due to the information that DD gets from his senses this can give him an early warning.

Spidermans pre-cog is just his senses bringing back information from his envinronment. DD's does the samething in a different way.

marvelprince
No DD's recieves sensory input which he then translates into warnings. Example: This guys heart rate is increasing, he's planning a feint

Spider-Man recieves warnings which he can interpret as sensory output
Example: My spider-sense keeps reacting from low to the left, that maust be where bad guy x is.

jrodslam
Originally posted by marvelprince
No DD's recieves sensory input which he then translates into warnings. Example: This guys heart rate is increasing, he's planning a feint

Spider-Man recieves warnings which he can interpret as sensory output
Example: My spider-sense keeps reacting from low to the left, that maust be where bad guy x is.

Your example of DD's sense is pretty accurate. Your Spidey example should be more like..."My Spidey sense is going off, but why?" or "Somethings setting my Spidey sense off." Then he procedes to look for that reason.

Alfheim
Originally posted by marvelprince
No DD's recieves sensory input which he then translates into warnings. Example: This guys heart rate is increasing, he's planning a feint

Yeah but thats what I said....


Originally posted by Alfheim
For example DD can hear somebodys heart beat and he can determine wether a person is going to attack him or not. Thats just one example due to the information that DD gets from his senses this can give him an early warning.



Originally posted by marvelprince

Spider-Man recieves warnings which he can interpret as sensory output
Example: My spider-sense keeps reacting from low to the left, that maust be where bad guy x is.


I dont understand how DDs senses dont do that. I think im going to give this 6/10 to Spiderman eventhough he is blind its as if it doesnt make that much difference and as DD himself said Spiderman is very powerful and can murder him. Spiderman still needs to get one good shot to win.

I dont think Spidermans senses are as good as DDs so I would give DD the slight edge.

marvelprince
Originally posted by jrodslam
Your example of DD's sense is pretty accurate. Your Spidey example should be more like..."My Spidey sense is going off, but why?" or "Somethings setting my Spidey sense off." Then he procedes to look for that reason.

Most times when its a simple situation like just dodging thats how Spider-Man is but when he needs to locate something thats how he uses his SS

Alfheim
Originally posted by jrodslam
Your example of DD's sense is pretty accurate. Your Spidey example should be more like..."My Spidey sense is going off, but why?" or "Somethings setting my Spidey sense off." Then he procedes to look for that reason.

This implies that DDs senses are more accurate because DD would get more information back.

jrodslam
Originally posted by Alfheim
This implies that DDs senses are more accurate because DD would get more information back.

And thats what ive been saying since day 1. Thus imo DDS >SS.

jrodslam
Originally posted by marvelprince
Most times when its a simple situation like just dodging thats how Spider-Man is but when he needs to locate something thats how he uses his SS

True, i do agree that if the threat has already taken place(shot fired or sucker punch thrown) thats how Spidey is. DD's senses work the same way though, but just gives him more info.

Alfheim
Am I seeing things didnt Grey Fox just post something? confused confused

ExtraMision5555
Originally posted by Alfheim
This implies that DDs senses are more accurate because DD would get more information back.

Actually, that is true, IMO.
Spidey has no vision here, so when spiderman goes "spider sense is tingeling!"
and looks around to locate it (as he usually does)

hes going to look around in complete darkness
then he may swing clumsily or make an educated guess-dodge,
shortly thereafter he will feel a flaming hot burn in his nervous system
and then a billy club.. etc

Metalmanx
Originally posted by jrodslam
Your example of DD's sense is pretty accurate. Your Spidey example should be more like..."My Spidey sense is going off, but why?" or "Somethings setting my Spidey sense off." Then he procedes to look for that reason.

That was back in the day. After many years of feeling his spider-sense tingling, he's come to realize what buzzes mean what attacks.

For example. If his spider-sense just told him something's wrong, how could he have avoided this attack in time (see attachment)? Simple, because it tells him where the attack will potentially hit, when it will potentially hit, and what kind of attack it is.

Kid Kurdy
Spider-Man is pretty accurate in the dark. Of course, DD is much better at it than SM, but don't underestimate him.

I have seen him on numerous occasions close his eyes, and focus only on his spider sense, to knock out his enemy.

Alfheim
Originally posted by Metalmanx

For example. If his spider-sense just told him something's wrong, how could he have avoided this attack in time (see attachment)? Simple, because it tells him where the attack will potentially hit, when it will potentially hit, and what kind of attack it is.

OK if that was DD do you realise how much information he will be getting. Not only would he know that hes going to be attacked but he would probably get an idea of how tall the attacker is and that he isnt human. Do you know DD was able to detect Spdiermans approxiamte age.....damn.

xmarksthespot
Originally posted by Superherovandal
DD really shouldn't dodge bullets or lasers cause by the time the sound waves reach back the bullets should be near him and the lasers would reach him before the sound would. A laser is essentially photons, which are for all intents and purposes massless. How exactly does one use a radar sense to avoid lasers at all, discounting that any form of echo-location would be too slow?

Alfheim
http://img390.imageshack.us/my.php?image=spideyandddsenses25qu.jpg

I dont know how recent this was but nuff said really. Spiderman says something, DD says shotgun. Spiderman also says "I hate it when your right." This implies that this happens frequently.

marvelprince
Originally posted by Alfheim
http://img390.imageshack.us/my.php?image=spideyandddsenses25qu.jpg

I dont know how recent this was but nuff said really. Spiderman says something, DD says shotgun. Spiderman also says "I hate it when your right." This implies that this happens frequently.

That was more of a joke than anything. Spider-Man detected something was wrong and Daredevil detected exactly what was happening. I don't think anyone here is disputing that in terms of knowing exactly whats going on in terms of senses (be it spider or radar) that DD has Spider-Man. My point though is that Spider-Man's spider-sense is strong enough to the point where he can use it to discern enough information in order to land a hit on Daredevil even if he's blind. Of course he won't be able to tell Daredevil if he's a heavy smoker or if he needs to change his pace-maker but by focusing on his spider-sense he can at least locate him and KO him

Alfheim
Originally posted by marvelprince
That was more of a joke than anything.

No offense but that sounds biased, because you said this later on.

Originally posted by marvelprince

Spider-Man detected something was wrong and Daredevil detected exactly what was happening. I don't think anyone here is disputing that in terms of knowing exactly whats going on in terms of senses (be it spider or radar) that DD has Spider-Man.

Anyway nevermind.

Originally posted by marvelprince

My point though is that Spider-Man's spider-sense is strong enough to the point where he can use it to discern enough information in order to land a hit on Daredevil even if he's blind. Of course he won't be able to tell Daredevil if he's a heavy smoker or if he needs to change his pace-maker but by focusing on his spider-sense he can at least locate him and KO him

Well ok fair enough. I tell you what im gonna go do some research into Spidey's senses, to be fair I dont know detailed info about it. From what people have told me about Spidey he could still win the majority.

marvelprince
Originally posted by Alfheim
No offense but that sounds biased, because you said this later on.

No no. I don't mean it was joke as in Spider-Man didn't know Daredevil was right but the comment itself was meant to be humorous. He says I hate it when it your ritght even though everyone knows Daredevil is always right when it comes to things to like that. Its supposed to be funny because Daredevil being right or wrong is never in question.

Its like if Spider-Man foreshadows something bad happening and then laments about being right. He knows he is but wishes it weren't the case cause then he wouldn't be in danger. Hope that made some sort of sense.

Alfheim
Originally posted by marvelprince
No no. I don't mean it was joke as in Spider-Man didn't know Daredevil was right but the comment itself was meant to be humorous. He says I hate it when it your ritght even though everyone knows Daredevil is always right when it comes to things to like that. Its supposed to be funny because Daredevil being right or wrong is never in question.

Its like if Spider-Man foreshadows something bad happening and then laments about being right. He knows he is but wishes it weren't the case cause then he wouldn't be in danger. Hope that made some sort of sense.

Well ok anyway theres nothing really to debate anymore. laughing out loud

Tha C-Master
Basically what they're trying to say is that DD has better senses (smell, touch), but his "sense" isn't better in combat.

Alfheim
Originally posted by Tha C-Master
Basically what they're trying to say is that DD has better senses (smell, touch), but his "sense" isn't better in combat.

Ok I see what you are saying. Some of the information that DD gets make may be useful but not useful in combat, but it could be argued since DD gets more information that in itself makes it more accurate for combat.

Does this make sense?

jrodslam
I think DD's senses are bettwe in combat because its more informative than SS. It also helps him be more precise in his attacks as well as his dodging. Daredevils senses allow him roll with punches from 100 cl characters.

In regards to the scans that were posted, whenever DD and Spidey are with each other, DD's senses always null Spideys sense. DD was even able to sneak up on Spidey.

Accel
I gotta agree with jrodslam. DD's senses seem to tell him every thing Spider-Man's senses tell him and more.

Alfheim
Originally posted by jrodslam
I think DD's senses are bettwe in combat because its more informative than SS. It also helps him be more precise in his attacks as well as his dodging.


Thats what im saying.

jinzin
spiderman gets stomped on ..... HARD....

spiderman's spider sense may be helpful in alerting him to attacks.. but let's face it.. daredevil's already shown that he can mess with the ol' spidersense, and as someone said earlier, it does beans for helping spiderman to make attacks... spiderman will face very much the same problem that he initially did against the white ninja... and in doing so.. he gets stomped.

jrodslam
Originally posted by jinzin
spiderman will face very much the same problem that he initially did against the white ninja... and in doing so.. he gets stomped.

Whos that? White Ninja? What happened? Explain or scans?

jinzin
Originally posted by Metalmanx
That was back in the day. After many years of feeling his spider-sense tingling, he's come to realize what buzzes mean what attacks.

For example. If his spider-sense just told him something's wrong, how could he have avoided this attack in time (see attachment)? Simple, because it tells him where the attack will potentially hit, when it will potentially hit, and what kind of attack it is. could you at least use an actual spidey feat to demonstrate this point instead of spiderman bragging about what he THINKS he can do? erm

Kid Kurdy
Originally posted by Accel
I gotta agree with jrodslam. DD's senses seem to tell him every thing Spider-Man's senses tell him and more.
Wrong. In most of their fights, Spider-Man has had the upper hand. And Spider-Man was mostly hypnotized to make the fight more even (at least three times, you see the pattern ?).

DD has stated countless times he's no match for Spider-Man. End of discussion.

Back to the thread. Here, in this fight, DD has the advantage, but Spider-Man needs only one good hit. He can avoid DD's attacks by relying on his spider-sense, but even though he would also know more or less where DD is situated, hitting him will not be easy.

So DD 7/10.

Accel
Originally posted by Kid Kurdy
Wrong. In most of their fights, Spider-Man has had the upper hand. And Spider-Man was mostly hypnotized to make the fight more even (at least three times, you see the pattern ?).

DD has stated countless times he's no match for Spider-Man. End of discussion.

Back to the thread. Here, in this fight, DD has the advantage, but Spider-Man needs only one good hit. He can avoid DD's attacks by relying on his spider-sense, but even though he would also know more or less where DD is situated, hitting him will not be easy.

So DD 7/10.
None of what you just said even disputed what I said about their respective senses.

And DD does say he's no match for Spidey a lot, but he's said this even in the middle of a fight where he's showing he's a match for Spidey. Actions speak louder than words.

jrodslam
Originally posted by Kid Kurdy
Wrong. In most of their fights, Spider-Man has had the upper hand. And Spider-Man was mostly hypnotized to make the fight more even (at least three times, you see the pattern ?).

DD has stated countless times he's no match for Spider-Man. End of discussion.

False. Most of their fights were stalemates and DD and Spidey both had advantages at times. Spiderman was hypnotized in maybe e of their fights. Seeing DD as a natural enemy and not DD himself. Theyve had about 9 skirmishes. Even when Spidey wasnt hypnotized he struggles with DD.

True DD has stated that hes no match for Spidey. Thats whye also constantly mentions how he cant ever give Spidey the change to get a good hit on him.

Kid Kurdy
Originally posted by jrodslam
False. Most of their fights were stalemates and DD and Spidey both had advantages at times. Spiderman was hypnotized in maybe e of their fights.
Three.

jrodslam
Originally posted by Kid Kurdy
Three.

3 out of about 9 fights. All in where Spidey struggled.

Tha C-Master
Originally posted by Accel
None of what you just said even disputed what I said about their respective senses.

And DD does say he's no match for Spidey a lot, but he's said this even in the middle of a fight where he's showing he's a match for Spidey. Actions speak louder than words. And so do crossovers.

Tha C-Master
Originally posted by Accel
I gotta agree with jrodslam. DD's senses seem to tell him every thing Spider-Man's senses tell him and more. They still don't compare to knowing what will happen before it happens, and it wouldn't be as great an asset to a team like Spidersense has, that is why Tony wanted to keep Ironman near. DD senses are usually used for him.

SOS
Originally posted by Sam Z
DD has his radar, Spidey has his spider-sense to make sure he will not get his a$$ handed to him.
Fight in NY.
Who wins?

spidey wins with one well placed hit. with or without vision. unless you want to include the stipulation of daredevil having slight invulnerability...to make this match more fair than what it already is.

Sparkz
Am I the only one who has read the story when Spider-man went blind??

Metalmanx
Spidey wins this one.

Accel
Originally posted by Tha C-Master
And so do crossovers.
Not sure what you mean.
Originally posted by Tha C-Master
They still don't compare to knowing what will happen before it happens, and it wouldn't be as great an asset to a team like Spidersense has, that is why Tony wanted to keep Ironman near. DD senses are usually used for him.
They do compare when radar tells the user just what exactly is going on around, as well as being able to sense certain movements and whatnot to predict an opponent's next move.
Originally posted by SOS
spidey wins with one well placed hit. with or without vision. unless you want to include the stipulation of daredevil having slight invulnerability...to make this match more fair than what it already is.
Daredevil's been hit by Spidey plenty of times and he manages to roll with the blow. No enhanced durability needed.

ExtraMision5555
Originally posted by Tha C-Master
They still don't compare to knowing what will happen before it happens, and it wouldn't be as great an asset to a team like Spidersense has, that is why Tony wanted to keep Ironman near. DD senses are usually used for him.

In a very shor term sense, perhaps that is an advantage, but they do compare seeing that radar sense is a constant stream of informtation & Daredevil has more than enough reflex to react accordingly. And in this instance spiderman is severely handicapped. I really cant see him winning more than 2 fights due to sheer luck, especially seeing that daredevil has lasted against a normal spiderman before. I agree that one well placed punch would do it here but wether he will get that well place punched is very unlikely

Metalmanx
I think we're all getting confused here. If we're talking about what ability is best in a fight, it's the Spider-Sense.

That said, Spider-Man wins, via this ability.

ExtraMision5555
Originally posted by Metalmanx
I think we're all getting confused here. If we're talking about what ability is best in a fight, it's the Spider-Sense.

That said, Spider-Man wins, via this ability.


I disagree, well

i guess on both counts

but purely an RS & SS, i can understand the oposition

as far as this fight goes though, i just can see him (spidey) winning more than two or three

jrodslam
Originally posted by Sparkz
Am I the only one who has read the story when Spider-man went blind??

Nope. You sure arent. I have it and have read it as well.

Alfheim

marvelprince

Alfheim
Originally posted by marvelprince
Sure Matt has rolled with Pete's punches before but circumstances are different here.

Yeah and even those punches that DD rolled with were not at full force. As you know Spiderman does not punch at full force because he does not want to hurt people like DD.

A non-blinded Spiderman would beat DD 10/10 on this forum.

Im repeating myself again.... embarrasment

Tha C-Master
Originally posted by ExtraMision5555
I disagree, well

i guess on both counts

but purely an RS & SS, i can understand the oposition

as far as this fight goes though, i just can see him (spidey) winning more than two or three In a "normal" fight, DD can only give Spiderman a workout, and that workout exists as long as Spiderman is willing to play with DD.

Radar sense is not superior. You can give SpiderSense to anyone in the street and they become much harder to hit, Radar sense is much harder to use and takes more time, most of the abiliites won't mean anything in combat, because detecting something when it happened doesn't mean as much as doing it before it happened because of damage reasons.

jrodslam

jrodslam
Originally posted by Tha C-Master
In a "normal" fight, DD can only give Spiderman a workout, and that workout exists as long as Spiderman is willing to play with DD.

Radar sense is not superior. You can give SpiderSense to anyone in the street and they become much harder to hit, Radar sense is much harder to use and takes more time, most of the abiliites won't mean anything in combat, because detecting something when it happened doesn't mean as much as doing it before it happened because of damage reasons.

In a "normal" fgiht DD has beat Spidey already. Spiderman wasnt playing at all either.

Radar sense is also superior as well. True its harder to learn and master, but once done, it pays off and shows its superiority. You mention most of the abilities of the radar wont mean anything in combat? How so? After learning how to use the radar to some degree, the person would become much harder to hit as well as someone with the ss. And radar is ALSO capable of detecting things before they happen. Not just when they happen.

jrodslam
Originally posted by Alfheim
Yeah and even those punches that DD rolled with were not at full force. As you know Spiderman does not punch at full force because he does not want to hurt people like DD.

A non-blinded Spiderman would beat DD 10/10 on this forum.

Im repeating myself again.... embarrasment

As ive stated before. It doesnt matter if Spideys punches were/are full force or not, hes not gonna be able to land it clean enough to knock DD out. Blinded or non-blinded.

Metalmanx
Originally posted by jrodslam
As ive stated before. It doesnt matter if Spideys punches were/are full force or not, hes not gonna be able to land it clean enough to knock DD out. Blinded or non-blinded.

I disagree. When has Spider-Man ever attacked Daredevil with full, unbridled force?

jrodslam
Originally posted by Metalmanx
I disagree. When has Spider-Man ever attacked Daredevil with full, unbridled force?

On a couple of occasions(although he was mind controlled). One occasion(not mind contrlled, but pretty angry) he was fighting with all his speed and still couldnt land a good hit.

ExtraMision5555
Originally posted by Tha C-Master
In a "normal" fight, DD can only give Spiderman a workout, and that workout exists as long as Spiderman is willing to play with DD.

Radar sense is not superior. You can give SpiderSense to anyone in the street and they become much harder to hit, Radar sense is much harder to use and takes more time, most of the abiliites won't mean anything in combat, because detecting something when it happened doesn't mean as much as doing it before it happened because of damage reasons.

(Most of my points that i was going to say have been covered by Jrodslams response to this, BUT)

Yes, radar sense is superior. Harder to master? Absolutely, but its bonuses pay off tremendously. Also, it does act as precog. Sure, not as forwarning as Spidersense, but Dardevil has over and over been able to read muscle movements combind with the assailants "feelings" (nerves) and make an accurate assumption on what manuver this person is about to generate. This takes alot more work, but this is how daredevil lives, so to assume that just because it cant neccesasirily be slapped on any other superhero and used with the same calibur isint entirely a fair compairison. All of this, in conjuction with DD's superhuman agility (although not on par with spidermans) and other reflexes -- ESPECIALLY, when he has given spiderman a run on a NORMAL day -- is more than enough to ensure that a BLIND spiderman, will not fair well against daredevil.

It is ESSENTIAL, durring a fight that spiderman use his vision in conjunction with his spidersense. He doesnt have it here. Keep in mind daredevil has tricked his spidersense before, and keep in mind Daredevil has radar sense, an argueably superior sense (even if only a little, but like i said argueably) Spiderman is going to wind up disoriented, and the pressure pointed and beaten into oblivion. IF spiderman lands a clean hit, off goes daredevils head, but that is extremely unlikely given the circumstances

Metalmanx
Originally posted by jrodslam
On a couple of occasions(although he was mind controlled). One occasion(not mind contrlled, but pretty angry) he was fighting with all his speed and still couldnt land a good hit.

Mind-controlled = Not fighting correctly. I'm not trying to make excuses, but that's how it always is. Anyone mind-controlled just doesn't fight the way he/she normally would.

What was this other instance you speak of? When Spider-Man was angry and couldn't land a hit?

jrodslam
Originally posted by Metalmanx
Mind-controlled = Not fighting correctly. I'm not trying to make excuses, but that's how it always is. Anyone mind-controlled just doesn't fight the way he/she normally would.

What was this other instance you speak of? When Spider-Man was angry and couldn't land a hit?

Mind controlled = Not fighting correctly true. But it also sometimes means that they are going all out with their powers. Speed and Strength wise. However they dont fight as smart as they normally would. Although some do.

2nd and 3rd time they fought. And i didnt say Spidey couldnt land a hit. He couldnt land a good one.

There was also the instance where Spidey was in his black costume and was suuuper angry and DD had to ko him to stop him. Spidey wasnt mind controlled there.

Sparkz
Originally posted by Metalmanx
Mind-controlled = Not fighting correctly. I'm not trying to make excuses, but that's how it always is. Anyone mind-controlled just doesn't fight the way he/she normally would.

What was this other instance you speak of? When Spider-Man was angry and couldn't land a hit?

Probaly the story with sin eater in, where DD tricked the spider-sense by attacking with 2 things at once, and parker was so angry he didnt notice the second attack.

Sparkz
This should help proove that Spidey isn't going to be completley useless in this fight like some people seem to think.

http://img303.imageshack.us/img303/4010/spideythroatmm0.th.jpg

http://img303.imageshack.us/img303/9109/spideythroat0001ff5.th.jpg

jrodslam
Originally posted by Sparkz
This should help proove that Spidey isn't going to be completley useless in this fight like some people seem to think.

http://img303.imageshack.us/img303/4010/spideythroatmm0.th.jpg

http://img303.imageshack.us/img303/9109/spideythroat0001ff5.th.jpg

Just remember who it was that trained Spidey somewhat and helped him use his SS better.

http://img319.imageshack.us/img319/721/spectacularspiderman026nn2.th.jpghttp://img178.imageshack.us/img178/6393/spectacularspiderman026co5.th.jpghttp://img336.imageshack.us/img336/2483/spectacularspiderman026fa5.th.jpghttp://img319.imageshack.us/img319/2271/spectacularspiderman026vl8.th.jpg


Spidey wouldnt be COMPLETELY useless, but hes hindered too much against DD like this.

http://img336.imageshack.us/img336/6484/spectacularspiderman027ut5.th.jpghttp://img187.imageshack.us/img187/5972/spectacularspiderman027rz6.th.jpghttp://img319.imageshack.us/img319/7676/spectacularspiderman027fw0.th.jpg

DD's senses work on their own. Spidey uses his tracker.

http://img187.imageshack.us/img187/5885/spectacularspiderman027hy0.th.jpg

Metalmanx
While I'm not going to argue that Spidey was virtually useless in those scans, he was also reacting with hysteria from being blinded. If he were blind for a good period of time and trained himself to utilize only his spider-sense, I don't see any reason as to why he couldn't function normally. He's done it before, like when he walks through pitch-black places without hitting a thing, etc., etc.

Tha C-Master
Originally posted by ExtraMision5555

Yes, radar sense is superior. Harder to master? Absolutely, but its bonuses pay off tremendously. Also, it does act as precog. Sure, not as forwarning as Spidersense, but Dardevil has over and over been able to read muscle movements combind with the assailants "feelings" (nerves) and make an accurate assumption on what manuver this person is about to generate. This takes alot more work, but this is how daredevil lives, so to assume that just because it cant neccesasirily be slapped on any other superhero and used with the same calibur isint entirely a fair compairison. All of this, in conjuction with DD's superhuman agility (although not on par with spidermans) and other reflexes -- ESPECIALLY, when he has given spiderman a run on a NORMAL day -- is more than enough to ensure that a BLIND spiderman, will not fair well against daredevil.
Radar sense cannot compensate for true precognition, there are many street leveler supporters that say super senses is/are precog. Sensing *where* a bullet is coming from, and sensing it before it happens are two different things. There not need be any vibrations. Spidersense has gone off because of a mere thought. Though it is almost never written to its full potential in comics, any guage of threat would cause it to go off. If Spiderman had to rely on his Spidersense his whole life (which has been upgraded) he would be much more powerful with it, than if he had sight as well, no different than any other human. If a missle is coming at a group like it did when Spiderman was with Iron Man, what good is DD? By the time he even senses most threats it is too late (when they move at quick speeds like missles and bullets), what about Supernatural assualt. What good is his senses then? They only work on a natural level, Spiderman's works on a Supernatural level.
Originally posted by ExtraMision5555

It is ESSENTIAL, durring a fight that spiderman use his vision in conjunction with his spidersense. He doesnt have it here. Keep in mind daredevil has tricked his spidersense before, and keep in mind Daredevil has radar sense, an argueably superior sense (even if only a little, but like i said argueably) Spiderman is going to wind up disoriented, and the pressure pointed and beaten into oblivion. IF spiderman lands a clean hit, off goes daredevils head, but that is extremely unlikely given the circumstances It isn't essential at all that he uses it, it is his extra eye in combat. He instinctively uses it, if he bothered looking for most of his threats, it would be too late. Instead the system paints a stronger warning for stronger threats.

ExtraMision5555
Heres the problem i see for spidey here in this particular instance.

So, spiderman is blind. Daredevil is, "blind". When spidermans SS goes off as daredevil is going to attack him, naturally, he is going to react, and thiers a good chance he could dodge daredevil's attack. Its definately not a stretch at all to assume so.

On the other hand, daredevil is a very, very smart man, especially combat wise. Daredevil knows spiderman is blind here. Matt almost always fights in a way to exploit his opponnents weaknesses/mistakes. Granted, spiderman can make more mistakes due to spidersense and superior agility but point being; Hypotheticly, i dont see why daredevil wouldent seek to confuse spiderman by setting off his spidersense via billyclubs, or just generally play with spidermans spidersense, seeing that thats all he has to rely on. I mean, hes done it before, and since spiderman is lacking his vision here i dont see why that wuoldent be more inscentive to do so.

Now ill scale it back a bit, perhaps spiderman isint as useless as i once assumed he might be, seeing that he was blind at one point (and trained by daredevil) etc. But at the end of the day, daredevil has shown the ability to keep up with a functional spiderman before, and in an intelligent way.

And daredevil definately has the physical talent to take spiderman down. It may take some time, and in that time it increases the likelyhood of him catching a jab from spiderman, but if he keeps cool and patient (as he almost always does), spiderman is going to get knocked unconscious, or put through a strenuous ammount of pain via pressure strikes. I may be inclined to say daredevil just takes a small majority, but a majority none the less

ExtraMision5555
Originally posted by Tha C-Master
Radar sense cannot compensate for true precognition, there are many street leveler supporters that say super senses is/are precog. Sensing *where* a bullet is coming from, and sensing it before it happens are two different things. There not need be any vibrations. Spidersense has gone off because of a mere thought. Though it is almost never written to its full potential in comics, any guage of threat would cause it to go off. If Spiderman had to rely on his Spidersense his whole life (which has been upgraded) he would be much more powerful with it, than if he had sight as well, no different than any other human. If a missle is coming at a group like it did when Spiderman was with Iron Man, what good is DD? By the time he even senses most threats it is too late (when they move at quick speeds like missles and bullets), what about Supernatural assualt. What good is his senses then? They only work on a natural level, Spiderman's works on a Supernatural level.
It isn't essential at all that he uses it, it is his extra eye in combat. He instinctively uses it, if he bothered looking for most of his threats, it would be too late. Instead the system paints a stronger warning for stronger threats.

I disagree to some extent. Sure, radar sense cannot compensate for LONG term precog IE spidersense, but it is still precog, although relatively short. To paint a picture, it is sort of like being a few seconds ahead. The amalgamazation (sp?) Of daredevils senses, specifically his "touch" and "feeling", it allows him to know whats going to happen a bit ahead of time.

For instacne, in combat he can feel muscle contractions and read nerves in a way that he by now -- similar to how you say spidermans spidersense is now second nature -- he knows what types of movements accompany these "hints". So sure, at one point it may not have been as strong of a "precog" as i believe it is now, but daredevil has been at it for so long, as you say with the spidersense, his radarsense is too second nature. So it is infact precog, albeit not as forwarning as spidersense, as i just stated. He can detect where things are coming from as its happening, but as i have been saying, it takes a little more thought than spiderman has to exert.


Also, Radar sense does work on the supernatural level. The radiation that he was exposed to as a child gave him superhuman reflexes and abilities. Feeling the muscle contractions of someone a half a mile away is anything but natural. Perhaps his reflexes arent as strong as spidermans one SINGLE reflex (spider sense) -- but it is the combination of all his senses focused onto one person that i believe ATLEAST, puts it on par with spidersense. Although, i perosnally think its better, but thats my opinion on the sense.

And for the scenario you gave, in actuality, dardevil would have detected the missiles when they were close enough ( i believe around a miles distance, his senses start to not work, its explained in DD #87? or something) He would have heard the missile coming, and eventually felt what direction it was coming from. But i will give you the fact that spiderman would have known it a bit earlier than daredevil would have.

Tha C-Master
Originally posted by ExtraMision5555
I disagree to some extent. Sure, radar sense cannot compensate for LONG term precog IE spidersense, but it is still precog, although relatively short. To paint a picture, it is sort of like being a few seconds ahead. The amalgamazation (sp?) Of daredevils senses, specifically his "touch" and "feeling", it allows him to know whats going to happen a bit ahead of time. It isn't precog because it doesn't detect the threat before the threat occurs. Muscles tightening is still something happening, and his sense is no good in that situation of there is no actual threat... yet. It gives him the jump, sure, but it still has to happen. The muscles not even need to tighten for the Spidersense to go off and it's still precog. A man tightening his muscles and being dodged because of it isn't precog, it is just heightened senses, and lets not neglect to mention that heightened senses has it's disadvantages too.

Originally posted by ExtraMision5555
For instacne, in combat he can feel muscle contractions and read nerves in a way that he by now -- similar to how you say spidermans spidersense is now second nature -- he knows what types of movements accompany these "hints". So sure, at one point it may not have been as strong of a "precog" as i believe it is now, but daredevil has been at it for so long, as you say with the spidersense, his radarsense is too second nature. So it is infact precog, albeit not as forwarning as spidersense, as i just stated. He can detect where things are coming from as its happening, but as i have been saying, it takes a little more thought than spiderman has to exert.
Spiderman's spidersense is instinct, it goes off like a buzzing alarm, he can't avoid them at all, it would be no different than you and I having an instinct. DD's radar sense works when he is able to function and he is in control of it, otherwise it is just senses. They are active, Spider sense is passive, he need not "use" it the same way.

Originally posted by ExtraMision5555
Also, Radar sense does work on the supernatural level. The radiation that he was exposed to as a child gave him superhuman reflexes and abilities. Feeling the muscle contractions of someone a half a mile away is anything but natural. Perhaps his reflexes arent as strong as spidermans one SINGLE reflex (spider sense) -- but it is the combination of all his senses focused onto one person that i believe ATLEAST, puts it on par with spidersense. Although, i perosnally think its better, but thats my opinion on the sense. What I mean by natural is it still works in the realm of senses, it isn't anything mystical or divine in nature like Spidersense is, Spiderman's Spidersense has been improved and has been described as something mystical in nature, like I said, if DD was under a mystical or Supernatural assault, his senses would do him little good. He won't have as much time to react, so him sensing it, would allow him to roll from a character as fast as Spiderman at best.

Originally posted by ExtraMision5555
And for the scenario you gave, in actuality, dardevil would have detected the missiles when they were close enough ( i believe around a miles distance, his senses start to not work, its explained in DD #87? or something) He would have heard the missile coming, and eventually felt what direction it was coming from. But i will give you the fact that spiderman would have known it a bit earlier than daredevil would have. They would go off, but it would be a bit later than he could react, that's him hearing the missles, which is a bit different I'll say.

Obviously these senses are good for different situations, my point is more or less that Spidersense is more suited for combat overall. Obviously DD has an advantage in being blind like he is. So this would affect him none.

ExtraMision5555
Originally posted by Tha C-Master
It isn't precog because it doesn't detect the threat before the threat occurs. Muscles tightening is still something happening, and his sense is no good in that situation of there is no actual threat... yet. It gives him the jump, sure, but it still has to happen. The muscles not even need to tighten for the Spidersense to go off and it's still precog. A man tightening his muscles and being dodged because of it isn't precog, it is just heightened senses, and lets not neglect to mention that heightened senses has it's disadvantages too. Well now that you mention it, i do agree that in the literal and true sense of what precog is, you could say Radar sense isint "true" precog. I agree, that precog does stem into the essense that it truely hasnt happened yet. Perhaps better put it is more "pre-emptive" than anything, and a bit more specific than spidersense.

And i do agree that spidersense is Passive, but on the other hand Daredevils are passive as well in the same way that us hearing and seeing is passive. We chose to focus or react, or hone in on things.

It is no different than when daredevil choses to hone in on something and focus his talents on just that. So its a bit of both, Passive, but also requires some focus. And in a sense, spiderman must do the same. He could let his spidersense just ring, and choose not to react to why it is ringing in the same sense that Daredevil could sense danger, but chose not to focus in on it and do nothing about it. Both of thier sense are passive -- as all are -- but both must be reacted too in seperate ways. The difference being daredevil must react to his sense & the danger, whereas Spiderman must simply react to the danger (im posting a bit early incase my power goes out, so this post might be incomplete, otherwise ignore this).



Yes, in different scenarios, spidermans senses would have its advantages over daredevils, and in the same sense i believe Daredevils have advantages over Spidermans. Because spiderman is generally higher in most stats than daredevil, thiers a point where daredevil may be able to compute danger but not respond to it and on the otherhand spiderman will atleast always get a warning regardless. But in this scenario, Daredevils senses in conjuction with his allready superior H2h skills is a significant advantage here. Seeing that martially speaking, he is allready trained to naturally fight well and that coped with his enhanced senses give him a major advantage over most street level type opponents, and in this scenario, spiderman.

Tha C-Master
Originally posted by ExtraMision5555
Well now that you mention it, i do agree that in the literal and true sense of what precog is, you could say Radar sense isint "true" precog. I agree, that precog does stem into the essense that it truely hasnt happened yet. Perhaps better put it is more "pre-emptive" than anything, and a bit more specific than spidersense. Yes, it's more stylish and "intuitiive" than actual precog.

Originally posted by ExtraMision5555
And i do agree that spidersense is Passive, but on the other hand Daredevils are passive as well in the same way that us hearing and seeing is passive. We chose to focus or react, or hone in on things.
But for combat purposes it isn't really as passive as a healing factor or Spidersense, which should work even when the person isn't aware, these are truly passive.

Originally posted by ExtraMision5555
It is no different than when daredevil choses to hone in on something and focus his talents on just that. So its a bit of both, Passive, but also requires some focus. And in a sense, spiderman must do the same. He could let his spidersense just ring, and choose not to react to why it is ringing in the same sense that Daredevil could sense danger, but chose not to focus in on it and do nothing about it. Both of thier sense are passive -- as all are -- but both must be reacted too in seperate ways. The difference being daredevil must react to his sense & the danger, whereas Spiderman must simply react to the danger (im posting a bit early incase my power goes out, so this post might be incomplete, otherwise ignore this).

But Spidersense is more passive, because most of the time he just gets the alarm and instinctively dodges it, it's like a sharp tug. Very hard to avoid. DD's senses aren't quite to that degree. Like I said, give a nobody Spidersense and they'd be much more lethal than a person with Radar sense, because it is instantly easier to use.

Originally posted by ExtraMision5555
Yes, in different scenarios, spidermans senses would have its advantages over daredevils, and in the same sense i believe Daredevils have advantages over Spidermans. Because spiderman is generally higher in most stats than daredevil, thiers a point where daredevil may be able to compute danger but not respond to it and on the otherhand spiderman will atleast always get a warning regardless. But in this scenario, Daredevils senses in conjuction with his allready superior H2h skills is a significant advantage here. Seeing that martially speaking, he is allready trained to naturally fight well and that coped with his enhanced senses give him a major advantage over most street level type opponents, and in this scenario, spiderman. But if you were to give DD spidersense he would be alot more lethal because he wouldn't have to compensate for as much, Spiderman's overwhelming physicality makes DD a workout, and that's as long as he chooses to be nice. DD isn't more than a workout to a logical Spiderman, when he cuts the strings it's byebye DD, him being blind will make his alot harder, I understand, but it won't be impossible.

Alfheim
Originally posted by Tha C-Master
It isn't precog because it doesn't detect the threat before the threat occurs. Muscles tightening is still something happening, and his sense is no good in that situation of there is no actual threat... yet. It gives him the jump, sure, but it still has to happen. The muscles not even need to tighten for the Spidersense to go off and it's still precog. A man tightening his muscles and being dodged because of it isn't precog, it is just heightened senses, and lets not neglect to mention that heightened senses has it's disadvantages too.




Bro with all due respect I think you are playing with semantics. Spiderman's senses are not supernatural therefore there is some logical explanation to how they work. At the end of the day pre-cog is knowing something before it happens it does not matter what the explanation is.

Spiderman's senses have been compared to a spider which has very sensitive hairs which tingle when its in danger. Its not illogical to say that Spiderman's senses are similar in which he has some reciever that senses sometyhing happening and therefore means danger.


Originally posted by jrodslam
Mind controlled = Not fighting correctly true. But it also sometimes means that they are going all out with their powers. Speed and Strength wise. However they dont fight as smart as they normally would. Although some do.


Well if they are mind controlled it doesnt always mean they will be fighting with less skill. They can be given the command to kill and then they will use all their skill to kill the target.

Originally posted by jrodslam

2nd and 3rd time they fought. And i didnt say Spidey couldnt land a hit. He couldnt land a good one.

Yeah but im sure he was holding back then.

Originally posted by jrodslam

There was also the instance where Spidey was in his black costume and was suuuper angry and DD had to ko him to stop him. Spidey wasnt mind controlled there.


Ok good point, you see what a pissed Spiderman did to the Iron man of 2020?

Metalmanx
You know, I just thought of something. People are claiming that the radar sense is also pre-cog. While I think the radar sense is incredibly exceptional in its abilities, it is not pre-cog, like the spider-sense is.

If DD just happened to be fighting someone with say, a bad case of Tourette's syndrome, it could/would throw his radar sense off entirely. Muscles would tense sporadically, heartrate would spike for a brief moment, random movement would occur. To DD, he would be like "What's this?! Muscles tensing, heart rate increasing! He's about to strike!" And then he would be completely thrown off as to when the opponent is actually about to strike.

If the same thing happened to Spider-Man, his spider-sense wouldn't warn him about the Tourette's syndrome attacker until he was ACTUALLY about to strike, not just when he flailed around.

I could've gone into more detail here, but I feel that you all will understand my point. I've got to get back to studying for my final exam in less than two hours, haha.

Alfheim
Originally posted by Metalmanx
You know, I just thought of something. People are claiming that the radar sense is also pre-cog. While I think the radar sense is incredibly exceptional in its abilities, it is not pre-cog, like the spider-sense is.

Yes but its still pre-cog.

Originally posted by Metalmanx

If DD just happened to be fighting someone with say, a bad case of Tourette's syndrome, it could/would throw his radar sense off entirely. Muscles would tense sporadically, heartrate would spike for a brief moment, random movement would occur. To DD, he would be like "What's this?! Muscles tensing, heart rate increasing! He's about to strike!" And then he would be completely thrown off as to when the opponent is actually about to strike.

If the same thing happened to Spider-Man, his spider-sense wouldn't warn him about the Tourette's syndrome attacker until he was ACTUALLY about to strike, not just when he flailed around.

I could've gone into more detail here, but I feel that you all will understand my point. I've got to get back to studying for my final exam in less than two hours, haha.

All you've done is give an example where DD would have problems. He might not actually be thrown off because he can distingusih between different types of movement for example somebody about to do an involuntary twitch is different from somebody about to punch. DD will probably be able to know the difference.

marvelprince
Daredevil does NOT have pre-cog.

Precognition is a form of extra-sensory perception. Believers in precognition say it allows a "percipient" to perceive information about future places or events before they happen (as opposed to merely predicting them based on deductive reasoning and current knowledge).

Daredevil does not know things before they happen. He recieves advanced input via his senses which he then translates and interprets in order to deduce his opponents move.

Alfheim
Originally posted by marvelprince
Daredevil does NOT have pre-cog.

Precognition is a form of extra-sensory perception.

DD has extra-sensory perception.

Originally posted by marvelprince

Believers in precognition say it allows a "percipient" to perceive information about future places or events before they happen (as opposed to merely predicting them based on deductive reasoning and current knowledge).

Also even the theory of pre-cog has differences of opinion some people say that all pre-cog is an analysis of current and past events that show you a possible outcome. Even believers in pre-cog will tell you that you cant get it always right, therefore this explanation makes sense.


Originally posted by marvelprince

Daredevil does not know things before they happen. He recieves advanced input via his senses which he then translates and interprets in order to deduce his opponents move.

Well I dont see how Spiderman senses dont do the same. His ability is based on a particular kind of Spider which has sensitive hairs at the back of its head. Therefore Spiderman probably has something similar. These receptors do the same thing as DD's the only difference is we get less explanations of how Spiderman does it.

marvelprince
Originally posted by Alfheim
DD has extra-sensory perception.

No he doesn't. ESP is the ability to acquire information through means other than the five senses, usually delving into the realm of the supernatural

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extra_sensory_perception

Daredevil has enhanced senses and through a combination of his sense of touch and hearing he can read a person. But thats all he does. Read and interpret. He doesn't just magically know. There is a blueprint to attacks and Daredevil knows this so he knows what to look for. Spider-Man on the other hand just knows when there's danger.

Originally posted by Alfheim
Also even the theory of pre-cog has differences of opinion some people say that all pre-cog is an analysis of current and past events that show you a possible outcome. Even believers in pre-cog will tell you that you cant get it always right, therefore this explanation makes sense.

What we're talking about here is being able to react to something without any prior knowledge of it. That is the essence of pre-cognition and what Daredevil does not have.

Originally posted by Alfheim
Well I dont see how Spiderman senses dont do the same. His ability is based on a particular kind of Spider which has sensitive hairs at the back of its head. Therefore Spiderman probably has something similar. These receptors do the same thing as DD's the only difference is we get less explanations of how Spiderman does it.

No it doesn't. Your probably going by what you see in the movie but the comic he's at best only been able to guess about how his spider-sense works and now its been said that his spider-sense is supernatural/mystical in nature

Tha C-Master
Originally posted by Alfheim
Bro with all due respect I think you are playing with semantics. Spiderman's senses are not supernatural therefore there is some logical explanation to how they work. At the end of the day pre-cog is knowing something before it happens it does not matter what the explanation is.

Spiderman's senses have been compared to a spider which has very sensitive hairs which tingle when its in danger. Its not illogical to say that Spiderman's senses are similar in which he has some reciever that senses sometyhing happening and therefore means danger.





Well if they are mind controlled it doesnt always mean they will be fighting with less skill. They can be given the command to kill and then they will use all their skill to kill the target.



Yeah but im sure he was holding back then.




Ok good point, you see what a pissed Spiderman did to the Iron man of 2020? How am I playing with Semantics? Is it natural for a person to have precognitive senses? It's described as mystical in his own comics, and after he received his upgrades, it isn't like "sight, seeing, hearing, or strength" and there's hardly a 100% rational explanation behind it, you learn more about it as he learns more about himself, but this is a semantical debate.

DD doesn't have precog, precog is knowing something happening before it does. He doesn't know that something happens before it happens. A person making noise pulling on the trigger before the bullet comes out is still trying to shoot DD, that really shouldn't be hard to understand. He might sense the bullet before it leaves the chamber, but that person would have had to want to fire the bullet.

Alfheim
Originally posted by marvelprince
No he doesn't. ESP is the ability to acquire information through means other than the five senses, usually delving into the realm of the supernatural

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extra_sensory_perception

Daredevil has enhanced senses and through a combination of his sense of touch and hearing he can read a person. But thats all he does. Read and interpret. He doesn't just magically know. There is a blueprint to attacks and Daredevil knows this so he knows what to look for. Spider-Man on the other hand just knows when there's danger.


Bah ok.

Originally posted by marvelprince
What we're talking about here is being able to react to something without any prior knowledge of it. That is the essence of pre-cognition and what Daredevil does not have.



No it doesn't. Your probably going by what you see in the movie but the comic he's at best only been able to guess about how his spider-sense works and now its been said that his spider-sense is supernatural/mystical in nature

Well thats just retcon. Spiderman was bitten by aradioactive spider he was not bitten by Pegasus or a mystical Gremlin. Therefore his powers emulate that of a spider as you know there is a spider that has a danger sense. Therefore Spiderman's senses should not be mystical or be pre-cog they should be a different version of DD's. If anything DD's powers should be mystical because.

http://www.marveldatabase.com/Daredevil_%28Matt_Murdock%29

Radar Sense: Daredevil can also sense the proximity and arrangement of objects about himself. According to one theory, Daredevil's "radar sense" functions via his brain's generation of energy within a certain portion of the electromagnetic spectrum.

If you look at the link you posted about ESP it mentions Dr Mesmer.

When Franz Anton Mesmer and Grigori Rasputin were first popularizing hypnosis, the legend came about that a person who was hypnotized would be able to demonstrate ESP.

I know that Dr Mesmer used to use magnets to induce people into a trance like state then moved to using his eyes and hands.

Have you seen the film Event Horizon there is a device that alters reality which uses electromagnetic energy. Furthermore there was a film about the Bermuda Triangle which suggested that the strange events were due to electromagnetic energy. This maybe science fiction but sco-fi is usually based on some fact. Anyone who has studied the supernatural and science will know that electromagnetic energy is a very important factor.

Originally posted by Tha C-Master
How am I playing with Semantics? Is it natural for a person to have precognitive senses?

Is it natural to have radar sense?

Originally posted by Tha C-Master

It's described as mystical in his own comics, and after he received his upgrades, it isn't like "sight, seeing, hearing, or strength" and there's hardly a 100% rational explanation behind it, you learn more about it as he learns more about himself, but this is a semantical debate.


Thats just retcon. The source of his powers are radioactive not mystical.

Originally posted by Tha C-Master

DD doesn't have precog, precog is knowing something happening before it does. He doesn't know that something happens before it happens. A person making noise pulling on the trigger before the bullet comes out is still trying to shoot DD, that really shouldn't be hard to understand. He might sense the bullet before it leaves the chamber, but that person would have had to want to fire the bullet.

Ok I see what your saying but lets put it this way. Say we have apple juice and water. Apple juice is not the same as water but at the end of the day I dont give a **** if im thirsty. Apple juice will do the same job as water eventhough its different.

The point im trying to make is DD's senses may not be pre-cog persay but it still does the same job.

marvelprince
Originally posted by Alfheim
Well thats just retcon. Spiderman was bitten by aradioactive spider he was not bitten by Pegasus or a mystical Gremlin. Therefore his powers emulate that of a spider as you know there is a spider that has a danger sense. Therefore Spiderman's senses should not be mystical or be pre-cog they should be a different version of DD's. If anything DD's powers should be mystical because.

I agree that his powers shouldn't be mystical but thats the route the current writer seems to be taking. The question has been asked if whether or not the spider became radioactive and bit Peter hence inadvertently giving him powers or whether the spider had the ability ro pass on its powers and happened to become radioactive and intently bit Peter so it could pass on its power before it died.

Originally posted by Alfheim
The point im trying to make is DD's senses may not be pre-cog persay but it still does the same job.

It can work on that same level yes, but the point is that its not true pre-cog and as such Spider-Man has an advantage cause he doesn't have to sort through data in order to interpret danger. He simply gets a reading of danger

Alfheim
Originally posted by marvelprince
I agree that his powers shouldn't be mystical but thats the route the current writer seems to be taking. The question has been asked if whether or not the spider became radioactive and bit Peter hence inadvertently giving him powers or whether the spider had the ability ro pass on its powers and happened to become radioactive and intently bit Peter so it could pass on its power before it died.

Well if we have another Cap vs Spidey debate im gonna pull this example, just to show that even in Spidermans's world not everything makes sense either. eek!


Originally posted by marvelprince

It can work on that same level yes, but the point is that its not true pre-cog and as such Spider-Man has an advantage cause he doesn't have to sort through data in order to interpret danger. He simply gets a reading of danger

Well I still dont think Spiderman has the adavanatge because DD is used to his senses. Of course if somebody was a beginner then they would have trouble.

Metalmanx
Originally posted by marvelprince
Daredevil does NOT have pre-cog.

Precognition is a form of extra-sensory perception. Believers in precognition say it allows a "percipient" to perceive information about future places or events before they happen (as opposed to merely predicting them based on deductive reasoning and current knowledge).

Daredevil does not know things before they happen. He recieves advanced input via his senses which he then translates and interprets in order to deduce his opponents move.

Quoted for the truth. thumb up

Alfheim
Originally posted by Metalmanx
Quoted for the truth. thumb up

Bah! Spiderman only has pre-cog because of a retcon.

marvelprince
Originally posted by Alfheim
Bah! Spiderman only has pre-cog because of a retcon.

Even before the retcon his sense was always considered pre-cog. You say its attributed to a real life spiders danger sense but it has never been established in comics, only speculated. Its never relied on outward input from any of his five senses so its always been extra-sensory perception. The retcon was just a way of explaining it

Alfheim
Originally posted by marvelprince
Even before the retcon his sense was always considered pre-cog. You say its attributed to a real life spiders danger sense but it has never been established in comics, only speculated.

Well he gets a tingling in the base of the skull and you have a spider that does the samething. Thats not really speculation. Thats like saying its speculation that Jack Russell has a heightened sense of smell.

Originally posted by marvelprince

Its never relied on outward input from any of his five senses so its always been extra-sensory perception.

So its still a sense. The mutant destiny has real pre-cog Spiderman does not until the retcon.

Originally posted by marvelprince

The retcon was just a way of explaining it

Hell no, they are just creating something new. Radioactive to mystical I dont think so somehow.

Metalmanx
Originally posted by Alfheim
Bah! Spiderman only has pre-cog because of a retcon.

...Uh...wha? What the f**k?

Have you never read Spider-Man before? blink

Alfheim
Originally posted by Metalmanx
...Uh...wha? What the f**k?

Have you never read Spider-Man before? blink

Bro he is based on a Spider that has heigethened senses, not a gremlin. Logic dicatates that his senses do what DD says, but we are not given an explanantion.

Hey wait a minute DD does have ESP

Perception of aspects of others which most people cannot perceive, by means of aura reading, medical intuition, clairsentience and telepathy etc.

Auras are energy fields and DD sense can do this.

Radar Sense: Daredevil can also sense the proximity and arrangement of objects about himself. According to one theory, Daredevil's "radar sense" functions via his brain's generation of energy within a certain portion of the electromagnetic spectrum.

Sparkz
Originally posted by jrodslam
Just remember who it was that trained Spidey somewhat and helped him use his SS better.

http://img319.imageshack.us/img319/721/spectacularspiderman026nn2.th.jpghttp://img178.imageshack.us/img178/6393/spectacularspiderman026co5.th.jpghttp://img336.imageshack.us/img336/2483/spectacularspiderman026fa5.th.jpghttp://img319.imageshack.us/img319/2271/spectacularspiderman026vl8.th.jpg


Spidey wouldnt be COMPLETELY useless, but hes hindered too much against DD like this.

http://img336.imageshack.us/img336/6484/spectacularspiderman027ut5.th.jpghttp://img187.imageshack.us/img187/5972/spectacularspiderman027rz6.th.jpghttp://img319.imageshack.us/img319/7676/spectacularspiderman027fw0.th.jpg

DD's senses work on their own. Spidey uses his tracker.

http://img187.imageshack.us/img187/5885/spectacularspiderman027hy0.th.jpg

Ok you do realise that was only after he had just gone blind, the scans I posted he was blind for a while and his Spider-sense became a radar sense to compensate he only gained that for 4 pages or so before his eye sight began to return. And seeing as he has had a week to get used to it in this fight I don't see why he would be so useless when he developed a radar sense after like a day.

Metalmanx
Originally posted by Alfheim
Bro he is based on a Spider that has heigethened senses, not a gremlin. Logic dicatates that his senses do what DD says, but we are not given an explanantion.

Hey wait a minute DD does have ESP

Perception of aspects of others which most people cannot perceive, by means of aura reading, medical intuition, clairsentience and telepathy etc.

Auras are energy fields and DD sense can do this.

Radar Sense: Daredevil can also sense the proximity and arrangement of objects about himself. According to one theory, Daredevil's "radar sense" functions via his brain's generation of energy within a certain portion of the electromagnetic spectrum.

doh

Logic also dictates that Sentry is impossible. That Hulk is impossible. That 99% of comics is impossible. Come on, dude. What the f**k?

Like it or not, the RADIOACTIVE spider-bite gave Peter E.S.P. His spider-sense is true pre-cog. He's sees/senses danger BEFORE it occurs.

Daredevil, however, does not. He just senses things AS THEY HAPPEN, and he does it REALLY quickly. He can ANTICIPATE (note: not predict) an opponent's moves based on their muscle movement and heart rate. It's a completely different thing that DD does.

marvelprince
Originally posted by Alfheim
Well he gets a tingling in the base of the skull and you have a spider that does the samething. Thats not really speculation. Thats like saying its speculation that Jack Russell has a heightened sense of smell.

But Spider-Man has never been confirmed to be based on this particular spider. You're grasping for straws here.

Do you think that he can climb walls because of hairs on his fingers? Thats how spiders climb so that must be how he does it. Despite the fact that its been elluded to static electricity and various other means. How come he can spin webs if he's a man? Generally female spiders do that. How come the web comes from his wrists and not his butt? Why doesn't he ask Mary Jane to bite his head of and feast on his carcass? See why your logic fails here?

In the years he's been around he's stated outright that he doesn't know how it works and its been alluded many times to border on supernatural. Why do you keep going back to this spider?

Originally posted by Alfheim
So its still a sense. The mutant destiny has real pre-cog Spiderman does not until the retcon.

The definition of esp is that its outside of the 5 main senses. Spider-Man's spider-sense was always outside of those senses even before JMS made him magic. Whats the problem?

Originally posted by Alfheim
Hell no, they are just creating something new. Radioactive to mystical I dont think so somehow.

Radioactivity is still there. Its just that the spider may or may not have been mystical prior to its exposure. It really changes nothing about how his spider-sense was in the past cause its always been a form of esp.

ExtraMision5555
Originally posted by marvelprince
No he doesn't. ESP is the ability to acquire information through means other than the five senses, usually delving into the realm of the supernatural

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extra_sensory_perception

Daredevil has enhanced senses and through a combination of his sense of touch and hearing he can read a person. But thats all he does. Read and interpret. He doesn't just magically know. There is a blueprint to attacks and Daredevil knows this so he knows what to look for. Spider-Man on the other hand just knows when there's danger.



What we're talking about here is being able to react to something without any prior knowledge of it. That is the essence of pre-cognition and what Daredevil does not have.



No it doesn't. Your probably going by what you see in the movie but the comic he's at best only been able to guess about how his spider-sense works and now its been said that his spider-sense is supernatural/mystical in nature

Well in essense, according to my understanding of your logic here, spiderman does not have precog either -- or if you are to consider spiderman having precog, you should too include daredevil.

From my understanding, your saying that precog in essense is the knowledge of a future event, through extrasensory means (and that in definition is precog).

But to not nitpick, and relative to thier abilities, if you are to consider Spidermans spidersense as precog, i dont see a valid reason to not consider daredevils as precog either.

Spiderman's spidersense rings (which would be extrasensory) and he must then react to the warning. Usually he has a very very solid idea of what is about to happen, and on a few occassians has actually seen an event. But 99% of the time, its just a VERY good hunch. And he is given this warning much further ahead than Daredevil. But truthfully? Spiderman does not telepathicly access the future and see the events transpireing ages before they happen, does this mean he doesnt have a form of mild precog? aboslutely not.

On the other hand, Daredevil reads the muscle contractions and nerves, in addition to other bodily singnals (combind with years of undersatnding) to determine when something is about to happen, and he is especially attuned to do so in a combat situation. Now simply becuase he doenst recieve this warning as early is spiderman does does not mean it isint precog. Their is no timesnap on precog. If it hasnt happened yet, it is Prior (pre) to it happening. The man has not pulled the trigger, yet daredevil was absolutely sure this man was going to shoot him (hypotheticly) so he is able to act accordingly. Can daredevils sense be wrong? Sure, but this is in no way a disqualifier. In the same way spidersense has been tricked before, or nullified by some villans.

Point being, both characters in contrast to who they are, or rather relative to who they are have mild forms of precog. If you are to consider one having it, you are inclined to do the same with the other. Spiderman gets a less specific warning further ahead, whereas daredevil can intelligently determine what is going to happen ahead of time through extrasensial measures (thier is nothing un-extrasense about reading someones muscle contractions as this is not the norm for a human being)

You cannot say one has it without saying the other does without running the risk of contradiction.

jrodslam
Originally posted by Sparkz
Ok you do realise that was only after he had just gone blind, the scans I posted he was blind for a while and his Spider-sense became a radar sense to compensate he only gained that for 4 pages or so before his eye sight began to return. And seeing as he has had a week to get used to it in this fight I don't see why he would be so useless when he developed a radar sense after like a day.

In the scans you posted, Spidey got lucky. He used his spidey sense as a low level radar. If he has a week to get used to being blinded, as i stated before, he wouldnt be COMPLETELY useless, but going against DD who can easily trick or overload the ss, he may as well be.

Alfheim
Originally posted by Metalmanx
doh

Logic also dictates that Sentry is impossible. That Hulk is impossible. That 99% of comics is impossible. Come on, dude. What the f**k?
What the f**k?

C'mon man why are you using my arguments against me? I dont remember you using this arguement in Cap Vs Spidey. In fact thats an arguement me and Jinzin were using.

The fact of the matter is it has to make sense until the bios or the comics contradict it. Namor is supposed to be only able to lift 4O tons out of water but the writers have shown consistently that he can lift more.

Originally posted by Metalmanx

Like it or not, the RADIOACTIVE spider-bite gave Peter E.S.P. His spider-sense is true pre-cog. He's sees/senses danger BEFORE it occurs.

Spiders have enhanced senses therefore logic tells us that Spiderman gains ESP from enhanced senses as well.

http://neurophilosophy.wordpress.com/2006/09/28/amazing-arachnids/

For most types of spider, mechanoreception is the most important sense. It is this sense that guides many aspects of arachnid behaviour. It enables a spider to detect the vibrations caused by the presence of an insect which is has been caught in its web or is crawling near its nest. It enables the Ogre-eyed spider to detect the air movements produced by insects flying overhead. Mechanoreception also enables spiders to localize the source of a vibration.

Several types of mechanosensory organs contain mechanoreceptor neurons and enable spiders to detect vibrations and air movements.



Originally posted by Metalmanx

Daredevil, however, does not. He just senses things AS THEY HAPPEN, and he does it REALLY quickly. He can ANTICIPATE (note: not predict) an opponent's moves based on their muscle movement and heart rate. It's a completely different thing that DD does.

Thats were your wrong.


Originally posted by marvelprince
No he doesn't. ESP is the ability to acquire information through means other than the five senses, usually delving into the realm of the supernatural


Thats were your wrong take a look at Marvelprines's site

ESP http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extra_sensory_perception

Perception of aspects of others which most people cannot perceive, by means of aura reading, medical intuition, clairsentience and telepathy etc.

Auras ://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aura_%28paranormal%29#Science_and_auras

Ancient shamanic and modern New Age metaphysics identify the aura as electromagnetic fields. The existence of electromagnetic fields around all living and many nonliving objects is purportedly demonstrated through Kirlian photography.

http://www.marveldatabase.com/Dared...Matt_Murdock%29

Radar Sense: Daredevil can also sense the proximity and arrangement of objects about himself. According to one theory, Daredevil's "radar sense" functions via his brain's generation of energy within a certain portion of the electromagnetic spectrum.

So according to Marvelprince per-cog is simply a form of ESP that enables you to know events before they happen. According to the site enhanced senses can be a form of ESP and DD's senses come under it.












[

Alfheim
Originally posted by marvelprince
But Spider-Man has never been confirmed to be based on this particular spider. You're grasping for straws here.

Do you think that he can climb walls because of hairs on his fingers? Thats how spiders climb so that must be how he does it. Despite the fact that its been elluded to static electricity and various other means. How come he can spin webs if he's a man? Generally female spiders do that. How come the web comes from his wrists and not his butt? Why doesn't he ask Mary Jane to bite his head of and feast on his carcass? See why your logic fails here?

My logic does not fail at all. Its common sense. The mistake your making is that I said that Spiderman is based on a Spider. You are now saying that he has to be exactly like a Spider. He is called Spiderman therefore he is based on a Spider he does not have to have the exact attributes to a spider but similar ones.

Why do you think Wolverine is short? Wolverines are short. Why do you think Wolverine had adamantuim bones and a healing factor? Wolverines are know for their toughness they are small mamals but have been know to fight and defeat Bears.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wolverine

Wolverine

As is the norm for mustelids, the wolverine is a deceptively strong animal for its size and has been known to kill animals as large as moose. Its preference fod human contact. However, because a wolverine will attack an animal caught in a trap, early trappers often tried to kill them. They have been filmed capturing kills from other predators, such as polar bears or a wolf pack. Wolverines are the most ferocious of the Mustelidae family.

Why does Wolverine have enhanced senses? Wolverines have heightened senses. Does this now mean that Wolverine has to urinate his territory?

Originally posted by marvelprince

In the years he's been around he's stated outright that he doesn't know how it works and its been alluded many times to border on supernatural. Why do you keep going back to this spider?

I dont care what he said where do you think the idea for the spider sense came from?

http://neurophilosophy.wordpress.co...zing-arachnids/

For most types of spider, mechanoreception is the most important sense. It is this sense that guides many aspects of arachnid behaviour. It enables a spider to detect the vibrations caused by the presence of an insect which is has been caught in its web or is crawling near its nest. It enables the Ogre-eyed spider to detect the air movements produced by insects flying overhead. Mechanoreception also enables spiders to localize the source of a vibration.

Several types of mechanosensory organs contain mechanoreceptor neurons and enable spiders to detect vibrations and air movements.

So what you are telling me that they just decided to give Spiderman a spider sense just because it was cool or did they decide to give him a spider sense because spiders have a enhanced senses?

Originally posted by marvelprince

The definition of esp is that its outside of the 5 main senses. Spider-Man's spider-sense was always outside of those senses even before JMS made him magic. Whats the problem?

Well according to your website DD's senses come under ESP.

Originally posted by marvelprince

Radioactivity is still there. Its just that the spider may or may not have been mystical prior to its exposure.

The spider was mystical because the writers told you so. C'mon man why were you complaining about Wolverine being immortaal he was'nt immortal before.


Originally posted by marvelprince

It really changes nothing about how his spider-sense was in the past cause its always been a form of esp.

Well according to your site enhanced senses come under ESP. I have already explained this. This does not mean that Spiderman knows things before they happen.

Alfheim

marvelprince
Originally posted by ExtraMision5555
Spiderman's spidersense rings (which would be extrasensory) and he must then react to the warning. Usually he has a very very solid idea of what is about to happen, and on a few occassians has actually seen an event. But 99% of the time, its just a VERY good hunch. And he is given this warning much further ahead than Daredevil. But truthfully? Spiderman does not telepathicly access the future and see the events transpireing ages before they happen, does this mean he doesnt have a form of mild precog? aboslutely not.

Doesn't matter if he's able to discern exactly what the threat is. As long as he's aware that there is a threat then he has pre-cog

Originally posted by ExtraMision5555
On the other hand, Daredevil reads the muscle contractions and nerves, in addition to other bodily singnals (combind with years of undersatnding) to determine when something is about to happen, and he is especially attuned to do so in a combat situation. Now simply becuase he doenst recieve this warning as early is spiderman does does not mean it isint precog. Their is no timesnap on precog. If it hasnt happened yet, it is Prior (pre) to it happening. The man has not pulled the trigger, yet daredevil was absolutely sure this man was going to shoot him (hypotheticly) so he is able to act accordingly. Can daredevils sense be wrong? Sure, but this is in no way a disqualifier. In the same way spidersense has been tricked before, or nullified by some villans.

Actually the fact that he doesn't recieve an early warning means that its not pre-cog. Daredevil only knows to react because he can read the opponents movements. I can look at a person with jittering and guess that they're getting ready to walk away or waiting to move. If they do move it doesn't mean I'm now a psychic, it just means I know what to look for.

Originally posted by ExtraMision5555
Point being, both characters in contrast to who they are, or rather relative to who they are have mild forms of precog. If you are to consider one having it, you are inclined to do the same with the other. Spiderman gets a less specific warning further ahead, whereas daredevil can intelligently determine what is going to happen ahead of time through extrasensial measures (thier is nothing un-extrasense about reading someones muscle contractions as this is not the norm for a human being)

No I dont. Spider-Man recieves a warning but Daredevil interprets warnings through sensory input. Of course what Daredevil does is "un-extra-sensual). He uses his senses to discern things. Just because his senses are not in the scope of normal sense doesn't mean anything. He uses his senses (however heightened they may be) therefore he doesn't have ESP

Originally posted by ExtraMision5555
You cannot say one has it without saying the other does without running the risk of contradiction.

No it doesn't. Its easy to interpret the difference. Spider-Man, through means not within his five senses, recieves warnings of danger. Daredevil, through his enhanced senses, recieves sensory input and interprets it as danger. Both may achieve the same result but only Spider-Man's can be considered true ESP

marvelprince
Originally posted by Alfheim
Spiders have enhanced senses therefore logic tells us that Spiderman gains ESP from enhanced senses as well.

Logic does no such thing. Spider-Man has told us since his inception that his spider-sense is what warns him, not enhanced senses.

Originally posted by Alfheim
For most types of spider, mechanoreception is the most important sense. It is this sense that guides many aspects of arachnid behaviour. It enables a spider to detect the vibrations caused by the presence of an insect which is has been caught in its web or is crawling near its nest. It enables the Ogre-eyed spider to detect the air movements produced by insects flying overhead. Mechanoreception also enables spiders to localize the source of a vibration.

Spider-Man's spider-sense works on a much higher level than just sensing when somethings above him or tangled in his web. From years back its been speculated to be supernatural.

Originally posted by Alfheim
Thats were your wrong take a look at Marvelprines's site

ESP http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extra_sensory_perception

Perception of aspects of others which most people cannot perceive, by means of aura reading, medical intuition, clairsentience and telepathy etc.

Auras ://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aura_%28paranormal%29#Science_and_auras

Ancient shamanic and modern New Age metaphysics identify the aura as electromagnetic fields. The existence of electromagnetic fields around all living and many nonliving objects is purportedly demonstrated through Kirlian photography.

http://www.marveldatabase.com/Dared...Matt_Murdock%29

Radar Sense: Daredevil can also sense the proximity and arrangement of objects about himself. According to one theory, Daredevil's "radar sense" functions via his brain's generation of energy within a certain portion of the electromagnetic spectrum.

So according to Marvelprince per-cog is simply a form of ESP that enables you to know events before they happen. According to the site enhanced senses can be a form of ESP and DD's senses come under it.

Wow. You really want to get technical. Ok then. Difference between Spider-Man and Daredevil that Spider-Man has precognition. Its a form of ESP but its more specific to what we're talking about right now. Precognition by definition is the ability to percieve information about future events before they happen (ala sensing danger) as opposed to to predicting them based on deductive reasoning and current knowledge (which is exactly what Daredevil does). It is a form of ESP but its a specific type that explains away the difference between both heroes

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Precognition

Alfheim
Originally posted by marvelprince
Logic does no such thing. Spider-Man has told us since his inception that his spider-sense is what warns him, not enhanced senses.


So has anybody gone into detail about how Spiderman's senses work like DD? So in other words before his retcon you dont know for certain wether it is pre-cog or enhanced senses.

Originally posted by marvelprince

Spider-Man's spider-sense works on a much higher level than just sensing when somethings above him or tangled in his web.

Missed the point. Spiders have heigthened senses, he is called Spiderman where do you think they got the idea from? I also showed you the similarities between the character Wolverine and a real Wolverine you did not address it.

Originally posted by marvelprince

From years back its been speculated to be supernatural.

Its been speculated so thats a lot of proof. Ok lets think about this shall we. Vampyres are usually killed by supernatural means, werewolves are usually killed by superntural means Spiderman's senses are supernatural but are usually overided with science. What the f**k?

I made this point before you did not address it.




Originally posted by marvelprince

Wow. You really want to get technical. Ok then. Difference between Spider-Man and Daredevil that Spider-Man has precognition. Its a form of ESP but its more specific to what we're talking about right now. Precognition by definition is the ability to percieve information about future events before they happen (ala sensing danger) as opposed to to predicting them based on deductive reasoning and current knowledge (which is exactly what Daredevil does). It is a form of ESP but its a specific type that explains away the difference between both heroes

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Precognition

Awww man. If you analysis what you're doing you are just telling me that Spiderman has pre-cog. Dont belive me look at the above post again. Before his retcon you cant say for ceratin wether its enhanced senses or pre-cog but the evidence points in the direction of enhanced senses.

Im going to list my points out later (or tommorrow), there are important points you have not addressed.

MR.Grum
Originally posted by Metalmanx
doh

Logic also dictates that Sentry is impossible. That Hulk is impossible. That 99% of comics is impossible. Come on, dude. What the f**k?

Like it or not, the RADIOACTIVE spider-bite gave Peter E.S.P. His spider-sense is true pre-cog. He's sees/senses danger BEFORE it occurs.

Daredevil, however, does not. He just senses things AS THEY HAPPEN, and he does it REALLY quickly. He can ANTICIPATE (note: not predict) an opponent's moves based on their muscle movement and heart rate. It's a completely different thing that DD does. yes

Alfheim
Originally posted by MR.Grum
yes

Yes but the same person will tell you that Captain America shouldn't be able to hurt Spiderman with his punches. Double standards. Also if you bothered to read what I wrote afterwards you would know I have addressed that point.

MR.Grum
Originally posted by Alfheim
Yes but the same person will tell you that Captain America shouldn't be able to hurt Spiderman with his punches. Double standards. Also if you bothered to read what I wrote afterwards you would know I have addressed that point. lol dosent fisk pwn spidey from time to time and hes just a wrestler laughing o and yea looked at it

Alfheim
Originally posted by MR.Grum
lol dosent fisk pwn spidey from time to time and hes just a wrestler laughing o and yea looked at it

Well when you think about it that doesnt make sense either. Spiderman has spider sense and superhuman reflexes and Fisk does not.

Actually Fisk is not a wrestler he is a martial arts expert.

MR.Grum
Originally posted by Alfheim
Well when you think about it that doesnt make sense either. Spiderman has spider sense and superhuman reflexes and Fisk does not.

Actually Fisk is not a wrestler he is a martial arts expert. no expression i stil fial to see the point caps has human perfection on his side and could pwn fisk

Alfheim
Originally posted by MR.Grum
no expression i stil fial to see the point caps has human perfection on his side and could pwn fisk

Yeah I know Im agreeing with you.

marvelprince
Originally posted by Alfheim
So has anybody gone into detail about how Spiderman's senses work like DD? So in other words before his retcon you dont know for certain wether it is pre-cog or enhanced senses.

No no one has gone into detail about how they work like Daredevil's. All you really need to know is that he knows the danger is coming before it comes without relying on external information to deduce that. Doesn't matter the nature or how it works.

Originally posted by Alfheim
Missed the point. Spiders have heigthened senses, he is called Spiderman where do you think they got the idea from? I also showed you the similarities between the character Wolverine and a real Wolverine you did not address it.

But Spider-Man does not use heightened sense to sense danger. Have you ever seen Spider-Man say I can smell/hear/taste that he's going to attack? No, its cause his spider-sense operates outside his sixth senses.

Oh and I missed your comparison to Wolverine. Moot point anyway because in Wolverine's first appearance he was really only Wolverine like in attitude. He didn't have a adamantium skeleton or even true claws then. I get your comparison that heroes resemble the animals they're named for but you're taking it too far. It doesn't mean every aspect of them must be reflected by said animal avatar. If that was the case then Wolverine would be better called starfish. You can get a lot of similarities between characters and the animals they represent but you can't use it to explain everything (the adamantium skeleton for one, the healing factor) but what about the Wolverine stuff that we don't see Logan doing? How come we don't see his love of digging holes and such? Its silly to expect EVERY aspect of a hero to reflect on the animal and vice versa

Originally posted by Alfheim
Its been speculated so thats a lot of proof. Ok lets think about this shall we. Vampyres are usually killed by supernatural means, werewolves are usually killed by superntural means Spiderman's senses are supernatural but are usually overided with science. What the f**k?

What kind of logic is this? Just because someone is science based it can only be affected by science etc? Just because something is mystic based doesn't mean it can be effected by science. Just ask Doctor Strange.

Originally posted by Alfheim
Awww man. If you analysis what you're doing you are just telling me that Spiderman has pre-cog. Dont belive me look at the above post again. Before his retcon you cant say for ceratin wether its enhanced senses or pre-cog but the evidence points in the direction of enhanced senses.

Please provide me with the evidence that shows me that Spider-Man's spider-sense is not a result of pre-cog. This is getting insulting now cause from the Spider-Man comics that I have from before the retcon they mention nothing of 'heightened senses' playing a role in helping him avoid danger. Its ALWAYS just been a 'sixth sense' that alerts him to trouble.

Originally posted by Alfheim
Im going to list my points out later (or tommorrow), there are important points you have not addressed.

I though I was picking out the important ones. Relist the ones you think I need to touch on

Alfheim
Originally posted by marvelprince
No no one has gone into detail about how they work like Daredevil's. All you really need to know is that he knows the danger is coming before it comes without relying on external information to deduce that. Doesn't matter the nature or how it works.


So if you dont know exactly how it works you dont know if its not enhanced senses. Yes I know what you're going to say.

Originally posted by marvelprince

But Spider-Man does not use heightened sense to sense danger. Have you ever seen Spider-Man say I can smell/hear/taste that he's going to attack? No, its cause his spider-sense operates outside his sixth senses.

Maybe I did not make myself clear. The enhanced senses do not have to come from the five senses. As far as im concerned it could be energy from the brain but its not pre-cog in the sense that it enables him to see the future.

Originally posted by marvelprince

Oh and I missed your comparison to Wolverine. Moot point anyway because in Wolverine's first appearance he was really only Wolverine like in attitude. He didn't have a adamantium skeleton or even true claws then.

Yeah and...

Originally posted by marvelprince

I get your comparison that heroes resemble the animals they're named for but you're taking it too far. It doesn't mean every aspect of them must be reflected by said animal avatar.

I have already said this.


Originally posted by marvelprince

If that was the case then Wolverine would be better called starfish. You can get a lot of similarities between characters and the animals they represent but you can't use it to explain everything (the adamantium skeleton for one, the healing factor)

The healing factor and the skeleton make him durable. Wolverines are known for their toughness.....do the math.


Originally posted by marvelprince

but what about the Wolverine stuff that we don't see Logan doing? How come we don't see his love of digging holes and such? Its silly to expect EVERY aspect of a hero to reflect on the animal and vice versa

I already made this point. You are missing the point I have already told you that not everything will come from the creature they are based on, but when you have a character that has similar attributes to the avatar he is based on common sense dictates that the inspiration came from the creature.


Originally posted by marvelprince

What kind of logic is this? Just because someone is science based it can only be affected by science etc? Just because something is mystic based doesn't mean it can be effected by science. Just ask Doctor Strange.

Yes but when have you ever seen GG and Mysterio use magic against his senses. Werewolves and vampyres are usually killed by people with occult knowldege eventhough science can be used. If Spiderman was really a supernatrual being he would fight more superntaural opponents. Blade is usually in his own part of the MU, yes it does have scientfic aspects but is mostly supernatural.



Originally posted by marvelprince

Please provide me with the evidence that shows me that Spider-Man's spider-sense is not a result of pre-cog.

Maybe I did not make myself clear. If no explanation was given for DD's senses people would think its pre-cog. There is no explanation given to Spidermans senses therefore we have to look at the facts to see wether it pre-cog or senses.

Originally posted by marvelprince

This is getting insulting now

What like the time you said that DD does not have ESP. You rudely told me to read and intepret the link but later on we find out that according to your link that DD has ESP. I was pretty pissed off about that but I didnt say anything, so you better calm down.

Originally posted by marvelprince

cause from the Spider-Man comics that I have from before the retcon they mention nothing of 'heightened senses' playing a role in helping him avoid danger. Its ALWAYS just been a 'sixth sense' that alerts him to trouble.

Yes but you dont know how it works therefore you cannot rule out the impossibility of it being enhanced senses. As I said before it does not have to be one of the five senses.


Originally posted by marvelprince

I though I was picking out the important ones. Relist the ones you think I need to touch on

Meh...maybe tommorrow.

Sparkz
Ok the whole Spider-sense thing came from the fact Stan Lee was told that Spider's could see all around them with their 8 eyes, and due to the fact he didn't want to give Peter 8 eyes he gave him Spider-sense, i forget where I heard it but I remeber he said that in an interveiw.

Also the fact that we didn't know Spider-sense was pre cog before the retcon was look at Kaine, his Spider-sense was hightend so much he could see into the future, now what does that have to do with the other 5 sense's?

Also how did the clones cancel each others Spider-senses out? All the other 5 sense's weren't effected. Same with the symbiotes. If the Spider-sense was to do with the other 5 sense naturaly one of them must have noticed that for example their hearing was worse than normal etc. And why couldnt Venom cancel out Ben Reily's Spider-sense if it was as simple as dulling the other sense Venom could have done it again.

marvelprince
Originally posted by Alfheim
So if you dont know exactly how it works you dont know if its not enhanced senses. Yes I know what you're going to say.

Because there has been nothing to back up this claim that its based on enhanced senses.

Originally posted by Alfheim
Maybe I did not make myself clear. The enhanced senses do not have to come from the five senses. As far as im concerned it could be energy from the brain but its not pre-cog in the sense that it enables him to see the future.

When you say enhanced senses I assume you mean from the senses he already has just on a higher level. Clarify

Originally posted by Alfheim
The healing factor and the skeleton make him durable. Wolverines are known for their toughness.....do the math.

And Spider-Man can still climb walls and spin webs like spiders can. Math done

Originally posted by Alfheim
I already made this point. You are missing the point I have already told you that not everything will come from the creature they are based on, but when you have a character that has similar attributes to the avatar he is based on common sense dictates that the inspiration came from the creature.

But the inspiration didn't come from that spider with 'enhanced senses' that you used earlier. As Sparkz pointed out it came from Stan Lee wanting a hero that could essentially know everything that was happening at once and be alerted to danger before it took place. He called it a spider-sense and its never been fully explained. The mystical aspects have only recently been given but throughout its creation its been a sixth sense that forewarns him of danger ie. pre-cognition

Originally posted by Alfheim
Yes but when have you ever seen GG and Mysterio use magic against his senses. Werewolves and vampyres are usually killed by people with occult knowldege eventhough science can be used. If Spiderman was really a supernatrual being he would fight more superntaural opponents. Blade is usually in his own part of the MU, yes it does have scientfic aspects but is mostly supernatural.

If you have issue with it take it up with the writer. I didn't write the comics, I'm only explaining it to you as I interpret it. Any qualms you have with that are not with me

Originally posted by Alfheim
Maybe I did not make myself clear. If no explanation was given for DD's senses people would think its pre-cog. There is no explanation given to Spidermans senses therefore we have to look at the facts to see wether it pre-cog or senses.

But the fact is that there is an explanation for Daredevil's senses and we can see he doesn't have pre-cognition. Spider-Man may not have ever fully explained his spider-sense but what we do know is that if there's a threat he senses it beforehand. That in and of itself is pre-cognition

Originally posted by Alfheim
What like the time you said that DD does not have ESP. You rudely told me to read and intepret the link but later on we find out that according to your link that DD has ESP. I was pretty pissed off about that but I didnt say anything, so you better calm down.

I never meant to be rude so I'm sorry if I came off that way. What you did was take my explanation of ESP which I took to meant pre-cognition and looked at some of the broader aspects of it to find a kind which matches Daredevil. So I admit, in terms of sensing auras Daredevil does have ESP, but to delve deeper he doesn't have precognitis (a type of ESP) that allows someone to predict the future without using any sort of deductive reasoning.

Originally posted by Alfheim
Yes but you dont know how it works therefore you cannot rule out the impossibility of it being enhanced senses. As I said before it does not have to be one of the five senses.

Clarify what you mean by enhanced senses. When you say enhanced senses I think of Daredevil. We already know that while both of their senses allow them to avoid danger that Peter's is instinctive while Matt's require him to process information he recieves. The fact that Peter doesn't require input in order to percieve danger rules out enhanced sensesin my book

ExtraMision5555

Metalmanx
Originally posted by Alfheim
Yes but the same person will tell you that Captain America shouldn't be able to hurt Spiderman with his punches. Double standards. Also if you bothered to read what I wrote afterwards you would know I have addressed that point.

Cap's punches shouldn't be able to really damage Spidey in any way. Sure, they can definitely sting a bit, Cap is one of the best fighters on the planet. But he should never be able to really hurt/wound/injure Spidey with his punches. So yes, I stand by what I said.

And you did address my point. Only incorrectly, however. erm

Sparkz
Originally posted by Metalmanx
Cap's punches shouldn't be able to really damage Spidey in any way. Sure, they can definitely sting a bit, Cap is one of the best fighters on the planet. But he should never be able to really hurt/wound/injure Spidey with his punches. So yes, I stand by what I said.

And you did address my point. Only incorrectly, however. erm

Unless its pressure points of course (Though i don't think he should be able to hit them) i can take him punching Spidey, but to hit something so precise seems far fetched for a fight with Spidey.

ExtraMision5555
As for the daredevil not having esp debate... thats an interesting topic. i think he does, but im hornOOPS

im sleepy


so ill have to address that later

<3

Metalmanx
Originally posted by Sparkz
Unless its pressure points of course (Though i don't think he should be able to hit them) i can take him punching Spidey, but to hit something so precise seems far fetched for a fight with Spidey.

Exactly.

marvelprince

Alfheim
Originally posted by marvelprince
Because there has been nothing to back up this claim that its based on enhanced senses.


Originally posted by marvelprince

When you say enhanced senses I assume you mean from the senses he already has just on a higher level. Clarify

No well ok let me clarify it can be anything, for example DD has a radar sense as far as I know this due to his brain being attuned to a certain part of the electromagnetic spectrum....or something like that. All im saying is I just simply cant belive that it is true pre-cog. Whatever is the cause of his Spider sense its just something like DDs senses in the sense that it analyses current data and enables him to know whats happening next.


Originally posted by marvelprince

And Spider-Man can still climb walls and spin webs like spiders can. Math done

I dont even understand what your point is here, are you just agreeing with me?



Originally posted by marvelprince

But the inspiration didn't come from that spider with 'enhanced senses' that you used earlier. As Sparkz pointed out it came from Stan Lee wanting a hero that could essentially know everything that was happening at once and be alerted to danger before it took place.


Well first of all there is no quote but assuming he is correct lets look at what he said.

Originally posted by Sparkz
Ok the whole Spider-sense thing came from the fact Stan Lee was told that Spider's could see all around them with their 8 eyes, and due to the fact he didn't want to give Peter 8 eyes he gave him Spider-sense, i forget where I heard it but I remeber he said that in an interveiw.



So in other words the spider sense is not just some thing that Stan Lee came up with out of thin air it is still based on one of the spider senses, the eyes. A spider has eight eyes therefore as far as Stan Lee was concerned Spiders have enhanced senses, therefore we can assume that Spiderman's sixth sense is just a type of enhanced sense.



Originally posted by Sparkz

He called it a spider-sense and its never been fully explained.
The mystical aspects have only recently been given but throughout its creation its been a sixth sense that forewarns him of danger ie. pre-cognition

Yeah I know but im saying is this, its like talking about God. just because you cant prove the existance of God doesnt mean he does not exist. Its a similar thing with the spider sense, but what im saying is that the evidence point in the direction that it is not true pre-cog.

1. His powers are not based on a supernatural creature. According to what Sparz said his spider sense was based on one of the spider's enhanced senses.

2. Peter was bitten by a radioactive spider. All this mystical stuff is retcon.



Originally posted by Sparkz

If you have issue with it take it up with the writer. I didn't write the comics, I'm only explaining it to you as I interpret it. Any qualms you have with that are not with me


For the love of God....you missed the point....again. The point im trying to make is in general supernatural characters hang out in the supernatural parts of the MU. Spiderman in general hangs out in the scientific parts of the MU, implying he is not a supernatural character.


Originally posted by Sparkz

But the fact is that there is an explanation for Daredevil's senses and we can see he doesn't have pre-cognition. Spider-Man may not have ever fully explained his spider-sense but what we do know is that if there's a threat he senses it beforehand. That in and of itself is pre-cognition


Well already dealt with this issue.


Originally posted by Sparkz

I never meant to be rude so I'm sorry if I came off that way. What you did was take my explanation of ESP which I took to meant pre-cognition and looked at some of the broader aspects of it to find a kind which matches Daredevil. So I admit, in terms of sensing auras Daredevil does have ESP, but to delve deeper he doesn't have precognitis (a type of ESP) that allows someone to predict the future without using any sort of deductive reasoning.

Ok, to tell you the truth maybe I would not have got upset if it wasn't for other debates I have gotten into were it got pretty heated and personal remarks were made. I guess its just an accumulation of things.


Originally posted by Sparkz

Clarify what you mean by enhanced senses. When you say enhanced senses I think of Daredevil. We already know that while both of their senses allow them to avoid danger that Peter's is instinctive while Matt's require him to process information he recieves. The fact that Peter doesn't require input in order to percieve danger rules out enhanced sensesin my book

Well i already explained my defintion of enhanced senses.

willRules
This could just as easily go either way. Daredevil wins if spidey doesn't hit him once, otherwise spidey knocks his head off or punches DD's ribs out his anus.

And for those earlier who were saying DD's radar isn't different to the spider-sense, I'm afraid it is.

DD's radar gives DD a "clear image" (pardon the pun) of his surroundings and lets him know what's going on around him. he then must decide how to avoid the threat.

The spider-sense doesn't tell Peter what the danger is or necessarily any info on the nature of he trouble he is in. However the spider sense does tell Peter what to do to avoid the danger.

For example

A bullet is fired at DD. DD realises a bullet is fired at him thank to his radar, he then decides what action to take to dodge such as ducking, so DD then executes the action, or ducks.

A bullet is fired at Spidey. The spider-sense tells Peter to duck and so Peter executes that action or ducks.

So DD's radar sense is mush, much more accurate for defining the threat (so DD knows the nature of the attack but must make the decision on how to react, then doing it) whereas the Spidey sense is much much faster for reacting (So it doesn't tell Peter the nature of the attack but how to avoid it so Peter just has to do as it tells him).

marvelprince
Originally posted by Alfheim
No well ok let me clarify it can be anything, for example DD has a radar sense as far as I know this due to his brain being attuned to a certain part of the electromagnetic spectrum....or something like that. All im saying is I just simply cant belive that it is true pre-cog. Whatever is the cause of his Spider sense its just something like DDs senses in the sense that it analyses current data and enables him to know whats happening next.

No its not like Daredevil's sense and from there is where you mess up. He doesn't do any sort of analysis, he simply knows if danger is coming or not

Originally posted by Alfheim
So in other words the spider sense is not just some thing that Stan Lee came up with out of thin air it is still based on one of the spider senses, the eyes. A spider has eight eyes therefore as far as Stan Lee was concerned Spiders have enhanced senses, therefore we can assume that Spiderman's sixth sense is just a type of enhanced sense.

He wanted a character that was able to avoid danger from any direction and since a character with eight eyes probably wouldn't be a best seller he decided to give him a next 'sense'. The fact that they've almost always described the spider-sense as a sixth sense should be an indicator that it goes above enhanced senses. If it were enhanced senses then they would have called it enhanced senses.


Originally posted by Alfheim
Yeah I know but im saying is this, its like talking about God. just because you cant prove the existance of God doesnt mean he does not exist. Its a similar thing with the spider sense, but what im saying is that the evidence point in the direction that it is not true pre-cog.

But there is evidence that God exist. Show me examples of Spider-Man comics where the spider-sense works as a result of enhanced senses. Show me where he has to hear/smell/ taste something and then deduce that its dangerous before moving.

Originally posted by Alfheim
1. His powers are not based on a supernatural creature. According to what Sparz said his spider sense was based on one of the spider's enhanced senses.

Your just reaching here

Originally posted by Alfheim
2. Peter was bitten by a radioactive spider. All this mystical stuff is retcon.

You should take a look at "The Other" (not an insult or anything but it'll help you understand this better)

Originally posted by Alfheim
For the love of God....you missed the point....again. The point im trying to make is in general supernatural characters hang out in the supernatural parts of the MU. Spiderman in general hangs out in the scientific parts of the MU, implying he is not a supernatural character.

He's not a supernatural character. They simply tried to use a mystical spin to explain why he got his powers and how they work. I'm not going into this. Your example is flawed anyway cause then you would Juggernaut hang out with mutants?

Originally posted by Alfheim
Ok, to tell you the truth maybe I would not have got upset if it wasn't for other debates I have gotten into were it got pretty heated and personal remarks were made. I guess its just an accumulation of things.

Np

Originally posted by Alfheim
Well i already explained my defintion of enhanced senses.

I just don't see how you can ignore years and years of canon comics attributing the spider-sense to a sixth sense to come here and say its as a result of enhanced senses. If it were as a result of enhanced senses (eyes) then he would have to work like Daredevil. He'd have to see the danger then process it and decide that it is danger and move. Thats not what happens. He simply realizes danger is present without having to rely on external output and the deductive process (ie. precognitis)

Honestly though all this talk about the origin and basis of spider-sense is pointless. It really has no bearing in this discussion. What should matter is how it works. Daredevil, and other characters with enhanced senses (Wolverine, Black Panther, etc) can use their senses to discern enviromental changes to interpret danger. Spider-Man on the other hand just senses it. There is nothing to tie spider-sense to enhanced senses and regardless of how he has it (either through science or sorcery) it is still precognition

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