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Would this be able to beat down Juggernauts Durability? I even extend this to 8th Day Juggernaut. I figure, that the Power Gem being cosmic and all might be able to do the trick. Let me set up the scenario.

Juggernaut grabs Betty and says "I'm, Unstoppable!". Banner turns into Savage Hulk and takes hold of the Power Gem that was given to him. Juggernaut stands there wincing because he can't be moved (or so he thinks). Savage Hulk w/ Power Gem throws a punch similar to that which destroyed Abominations head at Juggernaut. Does he move?

So...how would this turn out? If you think he would move Juggernaut, what about 8th Day Juggernaut. If you think he can't, then why not if its power cosmic?

No, Juggernaut is not moved or hurt.

Originally posted by supervenom
Would this be able to beat down Juggernauts Durability? I even extend this to 8th Day Juggernaut. I figure, that the Power Gem being cosmic and all might be able to do the trick. Let me set up the scenario.

Juggernaut grabs Betty and says "I'm, Unstoppable!". Banner turns into Savage Hulk and takes hold of the Power Gem that was given to him. Juggernaut stands there wincing because he can't be moved (or so he thinks). Savage Hulk w/ Power Gem throws a punch similar to that which destroyed Abominations head at Juggernaut. Does he move?

So...how would this turn out? If you think he would move Juggernaut, what about 8th Day Juggernaut. If you think he can't, then why not if its power cosmic?

I think you misinterpret juggernaut's powers a little. It's not that he can't be moved i.e. Blob, it's that he can't be stopped from moving forward once he begins. Juggernaut has high durability but can certainly be cut or injured by magical or cosmic items of sufficient power.

The power gem grants not just unlimited strength but IIRC the ability to duplicate abilities, energy projection, and a whole host of other things. Champion has smashed a planet with his fists while using it- Juggernaut won't be doing so well if hulk does the smart thing and hits him from behind and knocks him into space/the sun/etc, killing him.

War Hulk got the upper hand over jugs, IIRC- Hulk with power gem >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> War Hulk.



Hulk with Gem 10/10 here.

I agree. Onslaught sent Juggernaut flying. Hulk w/ Power Gem is overkill. No way does the Cytorrak Ruby trump an Infinity Gem.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
I agree. Onslaught sent Juggernaut flying. Hulk w/ Power Gem is overkill. No way does the Cytorrak Ruby trump an Infinity Gem. But that wasn't classic Juggs

nope.

The powet gem is more powerful then Cyttorak himself.

Originally posted by King Kandy
nope.

The powet gem is more powerful then Cyttorak himself.

It depends on whose using it and if they can actually tap into the power of gem.

Not everyone who using the power gem automatically gets to use the full power of it.

The only people who've used the gem at the full potential is Thanos and Warlock.

The power gem may (and that's a big "may"give Savage Hulk extra durability and some extra-"umpfh", but there's no way the Hulk is going to even begin to tap into the power gem when he's never even used it in the History of Marvel Comics.

Any one can use the power gem at a subconscious level...

Originally posted by King Kandy
Any one can use the power gem at a subconscious level...

Drax never did, and neither did Champion. That's just what people thought was happening, but was never confirmed.

The only person to master it was Thanos. Savage Hulk wouldn't be able to do shit with it.

Originally posted by King Kandy
Any one can use the power gem at a subconscious level...

I think the real debate here is that if Hulk could actually tap into enough power from the gem to overwhelm cytorakk's enchantment.

With that in mind there's a difference between subconsciously and consciously using the gem. It all depends on the mental ability of the user. Anyone who possesses the gem may get an added boost in strength and power but if they don't consciously tap into the gem, you won't be able to use the full power of the gem.

A savage hulk isn't the smartest hulk and more than likely he's the worst candidate to use the gem. He doesn't have the mental capacity to use the gem properly or correctly.

Yup. The savage hulk is, pretty well, retarded.

He'd probably look at it, exclaim "ohh, pretty gem" and be calmed enough to revert to Banner before he'd EVER get a chance to utilize the power.

So, this is pretty much either Banner with the power gem, OR Savage Hulk versus the Juggernaut.

And Juggernaut can beat either of them.

This is silly. Dakota Fanning with the power gem could take Juggernaut.

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
This is silly. Dakota Fanning with the power gem could take Juggernaut.

That is freaking great. I love it

"and whoever touched the gem would become cyttoraks agent on earth. HE WOULD BE GRANTED IMMEASURABLE SUPERHUMAN STRENGTH AND INVULNERABILITY. HE WOULD BE UNSTOPPABLE. he would become A Juggernaut."


this is the latest (i do mean the latest) narration to describe juggernaut. a true juggernaut. not the half ass Mother F***er appearing in comics as of late.


so who really has the edge in strength??? i'd say the power gem doesnt exactly trump the ruby/gem of cyttorak either...

This isn't about Hulk being able to use the Gem properly, it's a hypothetical case in which he IS using it properly, and hitting Juggernaut with said punch.

Originally posted by MightyEInherjar
This isn't about Hulk being able to use the Gem properly, it's a hypothetical case in which he IS using it properly, and hitting Juggernaut with said punch.

Let's see what "this" is really about.



Supervenom doesn't specify Hulk using the Power Gem "properly" as you put it. The Hulk just grabs the gem and throws a punch.

And besides that...

The idea of the power gem being used at 100% and together with the "Savage" Hulk are incompatible. You can't have a child-like brain wielding an intricate tool like the power gem. It doesn't matter if it's a hypothetical situation or not.

You actually need to be intelligent to wield the gem at full power. And we're talking Thanos level intelligence. So it's not happening.

Originally posted by MightyEInherjar
This isn't about Hulk being able to use the Gem properly, it's a hypothetical case in which he IS using it properly, and hitting Juggernaut with said punch.



even if so i dont believe it able to stop a fully powered juggernaut. nor do i think it would hurt him. please read above post for reasons.

Originally posted by Space M ummy

The power gem grants not just unlimited strength but IIRC the ability to duplicate abilities, energy projection, and a whole host of other things. Champion has smashed a planet with his fists while using it- Juggernaut won't be doing so well if hulk does the smart thing and hits him from behind and knocks him into space/the sun/etc, killing him.

War Hulk got the upper hand over jugs, IIRC- Hulk with power gem >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> War Hulk.

Hulk with Gem 10/10 here.

Well the War Hulk thing is up for speculation I think (I know the pushing part is for sure)?

Also, Champion wasn't able to beat Thanos' shield during the Quest, correct? Wasn't that all Tech that was used there (the punch on Thanos)?

Originally posted by KillAll
"and whoever touched the gem would become cyttoraks agent on earth. HE WOULD BE GRANTED IMMEASURABLE SUPERHUMAN STRENGTH AND INVULNERABILITY. HE WOULD BE UNSTOPPABLE. he would become A Juggernaut."


this is the latest (i do mean the latest) narration to describe juggernaut. a true juggernaut. not the half ass Mother F***er appearing in comics as of late.


so who really has the edge in strength??? i'd say the power gem doesnt exactly trump the ruby/gem of cyttorak either...

Also The Hulk has been described with "Unlimited Strength" correct? Reason I state this is because I think you addressed that Hulk and Juggernaut may be equal in strength, or perhaps Juggernaut may have the edge? I'm just assuming, not trying to call you out or anything.

Hulk is to stupid to use the gem.

Hulk in his savage version alone can dance with Juggy any day of the week, Cyttorak my ass. Hulk freaks on him. If I remember correctly, War Hulk brutalized Juggy.

Normal Hulk could stop the running juggernaut. It's only a matter of time. There's nothing the hulk can't do.

I also think that Hulk is too dumb to use the gem.

Originally posted by LordFear
Hulk in his savage version alone can dance with Juggy any day of the week, Cyttorak my ass. Hulk freaks on him. If I remember correctly, War Hulk brutalized Juggy. It really wasn't brutalized...
Juggernaut never bled and never cryed out in pain. All that really happened was that juggernaut was pushing Hulk back then eventually hulk snakes out a little whip thing wraps it around his leg, swings and throws him. Juggernaut was no hurt by this. Then later, war is threatening to decapitate him but never gets to use the sword so we don't know if it would have worked or not.

Originally posted by outarddwarf
It really wasn't brutalized...
Juggernaut never bled and never cryed out in pain. All that really happened was that juggernaut was pushing Hulk back then eventually hulk snakes out a little whip thing wraps it around his leg, swings and throws him. Juggernaut was no hurt by this. Then later, war is threatening to decapitate him but never gets to use the sword so we don't know if it would have worked or not.

To add on to that, I'd liked to add that even if juggernaut were decapitated, based on when juggernaut was reduced to a skeleton, I doubt decapitating the juggernaut would stop him.

Originally posted by Evangel94
To add on to that, I'd liked to add that even if juggernaut were decapitated, based on when juggernaut was reduced to a skeleton, I doubt decapitating the juggernaut would stop him.

If logan were reduced to a skeleton, he would come back, correct? But isn't one of the ways to kill him for good decapitation?

Id think Juggernaut, even with the powers, would be dead if he was decapitated, but thats just my opinion.

The point of the thread by the op is not whether Hulk could kill Juggernaut, but if he would move him. And after it being pointed out that Juggernaut is unstoppable, not immovable, the debate became whether or not Hulk could send him flying.

'Onslaught' Juggernaut was not depowered to my knowledge. So Onslaught sent his a$$ flying and we all know what Savage Hulk did to Onslaught w/o the Power Gem. The Power Gem gives absolute control of power to its bearer. When Nebula confronts the cosmic entities, I believe Thanos makes a comment, noting, "Nebula is overwhelmed by the multi-prong attack upon her. She's not used to omnipotence. But any fool can use the Power Gem to grant himself greater power." Which she does successfully. Like the other guy said, if Dakota Fanning wanted to knock out Juggy, she could do it. You guys act like Savage Hulk can't even form a coherent thought.

I will grant one premise however, I do not think the Power Gem works on the subconscious level to great effect. Therefore, if Savage Hulk thought the Power Gem were a green jolly rancher and ate it, he'd be hard pressed to will himself the amped power. Maybe on a slight subconscious level it would have an effect, but not a great one. In conclusion, unfettered access to Power depends only on knowledge of what the Power Gem is and nothing else. There is no secret password or configuration to make it work. That's the point of the Power Gem, mastery over Power. Same with the other Infinity Gems.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
The point of the thread by the op is not whether Hulk could kill Juggernaut, but if he would move him. And after it being pointed out that Juggernaut is unstoppable, not immovable, the debate became whether or not Hulk could send him flying.

'Onslaught' Juggernaut was not depowered to my knowledge. So Onslaught sent his a$$ flying and we all know what Savage Hulk did to Onslaught w/o the Power Gem. The Power Gem gives absolute control of power to its bearer. When Nebula confronts the cosmic entities, I believe Thanos makes a comment, noting, "Nebula is overwhelmed by the multi-prong attack upon her. She's not used to omnipotence. But any fool can use the Power Gem to grant himself greater power." Which she does successfully. Like the other guy said, if Dakota Fanning wanted to knock out Juggy, she could do it. You guys act like Savage Hulk can't even form a coherent thought.

I will grant one premise however, I do not think the Power Gem works on the subconscious level to great effect. Therefore, if Savage Hulk thought the Power Gem were a green jolly rancher and ate it, he'd be hard pressed to will himself the amped power. Maybe on a slight subconscious level it would have an effect, but not a great one. In conclusion, unfettered access to Power depends only on knowledge of what the Power Gem is and nothing else. There is no secret password or configuration to make it work. That's the point of the Power Gem, mastery over Power. Same with the other Infinity Gems.

We like to discount the Onslaught saga here, mainly do to the massive PIS it displayed.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0

Onslaught' Juggernaut was not depowered to my knowledge. So Juggernaut was depowered that time read All New Exiles he regained his powers after he got free from the Gem Of Cyttorak (which was never inside him)

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
So Onslaught sent his a$$ flying and we all know what Savage Hulk did to Onslaught w/o the Power Gem.
Maybe because Onslaught wanted Hulk to crack his armor to reach his final form.
Originally posted by OneDumbG0

The Power Gem gives absolute control of power to its bearer.

No one was able to use to it's full potentional not even Thor who is farmore smarter then Hulk and has thousands of years of fighting expirience.What makes you think Hulk could use it?
Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Like the other guy said, if Dakota Fanning wanted to knock out Juggy, she could do it. You guys act like Savage Hulk can't even form a coherent thought.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0

Therefore, if Savage Hulk thought the Power Gem were a green jolly rancher and ate it, he'd be hard pressed to will himself the amped power.
Hulk is too stupid to use the gem.

Originally posted by juggernaut66666
Juggernaut was depowered that time read All New Exiles he regained his powers after he got free from the Gem Of Cyttorak (which was never inside him) Cool. Thanks for the clairification.
Originally posted by juggernaut66666
Maybe because Onslaught wanted Hulk to crack his armor to reach his final form.I happen to half-agree with your viewpoint. However there are problems with this viewpoint. First, Onslaught keeps preventing everyone from getting near him the entire time. Throwing them away, creating shields and tempests, etc. If he really wanted to be released from his shell, why didn't he just let everyone pound on him? He clearly fought against them. I also don't think it was Onslaught's plan to reach a 'final form.' The form he was in was sufficient enough to destroy everything, which became his plan after deciding that nobody should survive the Onslaught. He probably would have been satisfied killing everybody in that pre-final form he took. Therefore, since 1) he was literally fighting everybody off and 2) already had enough power in his pre-final form to kill everyone, I don't believe his plan was to "let" Hulk destroy his corporeal form.

But granted, he was pretty happy when it happened and that presupposes that he knew if anybody was ever strong enough to do it, that was what was going to happen. That was always my take on 'Onslaught.' So I half-agree with you.
Originally posted by juggernaut66666
No one was able to use to it's full potentional not even Thor who is farmore smarter then Hulk and has thousands of years of fighting expirience.What makes you think Hulk could use it?Thor wanted to destroy Asgard. He had no full potential in mind when he was using it. Failing to draw out its full potential presupposes that he actually tried to release its full potential. Where in 'Blood and Thunder' did you read he tried releasing the Power Gem's full potential? Amping yourself enough to destroy Asgard does not require full potential power.
Originally posted by juggernaut66666
Hulk is too stupid to use the gem. This is a fair argument but only if you presuppose that he has no knowledge of what it is. Hulk has always had conscious thought. He knows whats going on and knows what he is doing. He's not mindless. Savage Hulk is more like an angry child. But if you explained to an angry child that this Power Gem gives you as much power as you want, that angry child would understand that.

Your argument seems to be, Hulk would never recognize what the Power Gem is. Well, that is only fair to say if the OP decides it so. In that case, I would agree. But if Hulk knew it was the Power Gem and what it basically is, all bets are off, he would have access to unlimited strength. He may not be able to will himself to shoot blasts of energy, but he sure knows what strength means and what amping his strength means. In this crude way, even child-minded Savage Hulk could will himself to the appropriate power level to knock out Juggy.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0

I happen to half-agree with your viewpoint. However there are problems with this viewpoint. First, Onslaught keeps preventing everyone from getting near him the entire time. Throwing them away, creating shields and tempests, etc. If he really wanted to be released from his shell, why didn't he just let everyone pound on him? He clearly fought against them. I also don't think it was Onslaught's plan to reach a 'final form.' The form he was in was sufficient enough to destroy everything, which became his plan after deciding that nobody should survive the Onslaught. He probably would have been satisfied killing everybody in that pre-final form he took. Therefore, since 1) he was literally fighting everybody off and 2) already had enough power in his pre-final form to kill everyone, I don't believe his plan was to "let" Hulk destroy his corporeal form.

Because he needed to make him angry to become strong enough to crack his armor.
Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Thor wanted to destroy Asgard. He had no full potential in mind when he was using it. Failing to draw out its full potential presupposes that he actually tried to release its full potential. Where in 'Blood and Thunder' did you read he tried releasing the Power Gem's full potential? Amping yourself enough to destroy Asgard does not require full potential power.
This is a fair argument but only if you presuppose that he has no knowledge of what it is. Hulk has always had conscious thought. He knows whats going on and knows what he is doing. He's not mindless. Savage Hulk is more like an angry child. But if you explained to an angry child that this Power Gem gives you as much power as you want, that angry child would understand that.
Thor with power gem was handled by Thanos...
Originally posted by OneDumbG0

Your argument seems to be, Hulk would never recognize what the Power Gem is. Well, that is only fair to say if the OP decides it so. In that case, I would agree. But if Hulk knew it was the Power Gem and what it basically is, all bets are off, he would have access to unlimited strength. He may not be able to will himself to shoot blasts of energy, but he sure knows what strength means and what amping his strength means. In this crude way, even child-minded Savage Hulk could will himself to the appropriate power level to knock out Juggy.
If the use of the gem would be so easy then Thor would simply smack Thanos but he didn't

If you agree that Onslaught was trying to get Hulk angry enough in this roundabout way, than you seem to accept that Savage Hulk can augment his strength limitlessly through rage and that really, Savage Hulk was Onslaught's only option in the strength department. Why then, having accepted all this, even to the point of arguing for it, are you so skeptical that Savage Hulk could augment his physcal strength to the point where he could knock out Juggernaut?

Moving on to your next point, you continually assert that nobody can access a full potential output from the Power Gem. You cite how Thanos "handled" Thor when he had it. Can you tell me how you could possibly think that Thanos "handled" Thor w/ Power Gem? Thanos gave up trying to fight him physically and used some cheap containment gun on him. Call it what you like, a spatial/temporal containment field, I dunno. Guy's mastered teleportation... I don't begrudge him using a piece of tech to win in a non-physical way.

But before that cop-out plot device, for every time Thanos got a shot in, Thor kept one-upping him, even drawing Thanos' blood. Now, in no way am I a Thanos hater, I think Darkseid has to stand on a stool to kiss his a$$, but no way did Thanos ever "handle" Power Gem Thor. If anything, the most appropriate interpretation of the fight is:

1) Thor hits Thanos.
2) Thanos shows he can take it and hits him back.
3) Thor amps his power up and beats on him some more.
4) Thanos' forcefield is breaking, but he still takes it, and hits him back.
5) Thor amps his power up more and starts wailing on him again having breached his forcefield drawing blood.
6) Thanos is a badass and would continue but finally thinks, "$#%^ this. I'm not a stupid brawler. Let me get my containment gun."

If I remember what Thanos says after zapping Thor, he warns Surfer that if Thor escapes, Thor will kill them all. So that would suggest that Thanos would have lost eventually unless he found ways around Thor's amplified power from the Power Gem. But I don't have the entire issue to scan. If you do, please post em up. The only things I have are parts of the fight.

The power gem is not that easy to use. An angry hulk with the intellect of a child isn't going to tap into the gem 100%.

Here, I found most of the fight in the Thanos Respect Thread. But sadly, the scans end before Thanos and Surfer start talking about what to do with Thor after immobilizing him. Give Thanos respect, but he does not pwnorz Power Gem Thor. He takes and gives shots, but if anything, the fight illustrates how Thor was amping himself more and more til Thanos couldn't physically deal with it anymore.

1.http://img159.exs.cx/my.php?loc=img...mage=bbt3fj.jpg
2.http://img149.exs.cx/my.php?loc=img...age=bbt26bj.jpg
3.http://img92.exs.cx/my.php?loc=img9...age=bbt38nq.jpg
4.http://img240.exs.cx/my.php?loc=img...age=bbt43el.jpg
5.http://img237.exs.cx/my.php?loc=img...age=bbt56ro.jpg
6.http://img235.exs.cx/my.php?loc=img...age=bbt61ym.jpg
7.http://img233.exs.cx/my.php?loc=img...age=bbt71pc.jpg
8.http://img14.imageshack.us/img14/64...rv3088156tf.jpg
9.http://img230.exs.cx/my.php?loc=img...age=bbt94gp.jpg
10.http://img228.exs.cx/my.php?loc=img...ge=bbt109xj.jpg
11.http://img164.imageshack.us/img164/...rv3088205cm.jpg
12.http://img164.imageshack.us/img164/...rv3088216vo.jpg

Besides, the whole premise of the story is that Thor had the power to destroy Asgard now that he got the Power Gem. Why is everybody crapping in their pants (Strange, Surfer, Warlock, Thanos, Odin) if Thor was only at a level of power weaker than Thanos? It makes no sense with how the characters were reacting and completely undermines the whole plot. You're telling me a being who gets wrecked by Thanos has the power to destroy Asgard? Sorry, I don't buy your position. You misinterpreted the fight and what the Power Gem can really do.

Fact is, everybody in 'Blood and Thunder' was scared and for good reason. Thor was gonna kill them all and they had to find a way around the Power Gem to save the day. The climax involves them fighting on the mental/spiritual plane which lends more credence to my assessment that they couldn't deal with Thor physically. Just because Power Gem Thor didn't one-shot Thanos right from the beginning doesn't disprove the gem's ability to grant ever greater power.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Here, I found most of the fight in the Thanos Respect Thread. But sadly, the scans end before Thanos and Surfer start talking about what to do with Thor after immobilizing him. Give Thanos respect, but he does not pwnorz Power Gem Thor. He takes and gives shots, but if anything, the fight illustrates how Thor was amping himself more and more til Thanos couldn't physically deal with it anymore.

1.http://img159.exs.cx/my.php?loc=img...mage=bbt3fj.jpg
2.http://img149.exs.cx/my.php?loc=img...age=bbt26bj.jpg
3.http://img92.exs.cx/my.php?loc=img9...age=bbt38nq.jpg
4.http://img240.exs.cx/my.php?loc=img...age=bbt43el.jpg
5.http://img237.exs.cx/my.php?loc=img...age=bbt56ro.jpg
6.http://img235.exs.cx/my.php?loc=img...age=bbt61ym.jpg
7.http://img233.exs.cx/my.php?loc=img...age=bbt71pc.jpg
8.http://img14.imageshack.us/img14/64...rv3088156tf.jpg
9.http://img230.exs.cx/my.php?loc=img...age=bbt94gp.jpg
10.http://img228.exs.cx/my.php?loc=img...ge=bbt109xj.jpg
11.http://img164.imageshack.us/img164/...rv3088205cm.jpg
12.http://img164.imageshack.us/img164/...rv3088216vo.jpg

Besides, the whole premise of the story is that Thor had the power to destroy Asgard now that he got the Power Gem. Why is everybody crapping in their pants (Strange, Surfer, Warlock, Thanos, Odin) if Thor was only at a level of power weaker than Thanos? It makes no sense with how the characters were reacting and completely undermines the whole plot. You're telling me a being who gets wrecked by Thanos has the power to destroy Asgard? Sorry, I don't buy your position. You misinterpreted the fight and what the Power Gem can really do.

Fact is, everybody in 'Blood and Thunder' was scared and for good reason. Thor was gonna kill them all and they had to find a way around the Power Gem to save the day. The climax involves them fighting on the mental/spiritual plane which lends more credence to my assessment that they couldn't deal with Thor physically. Just because Power Gem Thor didn't one-shot Thanos right from the beginning doesn't disprove the gem's ability to grant ever greater power.

None of those links work.

Originally posted by Evangel94
The power gem is not that easy to use. An angry hulk with the intellect of a child isn't going to tap into the gem 100%. When talking about Nebula, I think Thanos' words were, "With such might, any dullard would eventually prove victorious."

There's also the matter of why people keep insisting that you have to access the Power Gem 100%. What does that even mean? If I think, more strength, the Power Gem gives it to you. Do you really think that if you're not smart enough, the Power Gem sets a limit? Like 10,000 ton lifting strength or something? What the hell does 100% even mean? I'ma go with Thanos and continue to believe that as long as you want more power, it gives you more power. Whether you have the ability to conceive of the appropriate power level right from the start and one-shot makes no difference in a fight like this. If Savage Hulk doesn't succeed with the amoutn of strength he was thinkign of at first, he'll just think "more strength dammit," and so on and so forth and that's about as simple as it gets.

EDIT: The links don't work? That's odd. Let me link directly to the Thanos Respect Thread itself then. I think it's on the 2nd page.

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=356352&perpage=20&highlight=title%3A%28thanos+death+club%29&pagenumber=2

nobody has ever physically knocked out juggernaut... on panel. no reason to think the wielder of the power gem could do so either. despite what proof or battles you have.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
If you agree that Onslaught was trying to get Hulk angry enough in this roundabout way, than you seem to accept that Savage Hulk can augment his strength limitlessly through rage and that really, Savage Hulk was Onslaught's only option in the strength department. Why then, having accepted all this, even to the point of arguing for it, are you so skeptical that Savage Hulk could augment his physcal strength to the point where he could knock out Juggernaut?

What are you talking about?? It didn't need limitless strenght to crack Onslaught's armor it has been cracked before.Juggernaut get's his power from an elder God who's power Hulk cannot surpass like it or not.
Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Moving on to your next point, you continually assert that nobody can access a full potential output from the Power Gem. You cite how Thanos "handled" Thor when he had it. Can you tell me how you could possibly think that Thanos "handled" Thor w/ Power Gem? Thanos gave up trying to fight him physically and used some cheap containment gun on him. Call it what you like, a spatial/temporal containment field, I dunno. Guy's mastered teleportation... I don't begrudge him using a piece of tech to win in a non-physical way.

But before that cop-out plot device, for every time Thanos got a shot in, Thor kept one-upping him, even drawing Thanos' blood. Now, in no way am I a Thanos hater, I think Darkseid has to stand on a stool to kiss his a$$, but no way did Thanos ever "handle" Power Gem Thor. If anything, the most appropriate interpretation of the fight is:

1) Thor hits Thanos.
2) Thanos shows he can take it and hits him back.
3) Thor amps his power up and beats on him some more.
4) Thanos' forcefield is breaking, but he still takes it, and hits him back.
5) Thor amps his power up more and starts wailing on him again having breached his forcefield drawing blood.
6) Thanos is a badass and would continue but finally thinks, "$#%^ this. I'm not a stupid brawler. Let me get my containment gun."

If I remember what Thanos says after zapping Thor, he warns Surfer that if Thor escapes, Thor will kill them all. So that would suggest that Thanos would have lost eventually unless he found ways around Thor's amplified power from the Power Gem. But I don't have the entire issue to scan. If you do, please post em up. The only things I have are parts of the fight.
On this point you are arguing with your self since you said that the power gem gives instant access to unlimited strenght then why didn't Thor just 1 shot Thanos?

Originally posted by juggernaut66666
On this point you are arguing with your self since you said that the power gem gives instant access to unlimited strenght then why didn't Thor just 1 shot Thanos?
The strength builds up over time. The more you fight, the stronger you get.

Originally posted by Kid Kurdy
Come again ? The only victory of Surfer that I know, is in Hulk 250 (Savage Hulk I think), and that was because Surfer absorbed the gamma radiation.

Maybe because Surfer didn't wanted to kill Hulk but as he said he could easily disintegrade him.
Originally posted by Kid Kurdy

Not that long ago, they fought again, and Hulk pretty much kicked Surfer around. Hulk also fought Surfer and Namor at the same time, and did well. And in Planet Hulk, he almost kills Surfer.
B]
Maybe because Surfer was weakened didn't had access to the power cosmic and was mind controlled and Hulk attacked him when Surfer has already stopped fighting.
Originally posted by Kid Kurdy

Mindless Hulk also has fought Wonderman, She-Hulk, Hercules, Namor, Captain America, Iron Man, Hawkeye, Captain Marvel and a few other Avengers at the same time, and he was Kicking Ass !!! That was after he beat the living daylights out of Doc Samson.
B] He still got beaten and Surfer is till above those guys.
Originally posted by Kid Kurdy

Thor is considered Surfers equal. Guess who has beaten Thor quite a few times ?

Oh, and last but not least, Thing has knocked down Surfer. Hulk >>>>> Thing.

You see people, it isn't as simple as it looks.
Maybe because Thor was fighting like an idiot. Show me a scan of Thing knocking out Surfer.