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I find it really interesting all the villains, Barbossa, Davy, and Beckett, are the ones who pick up on something going on between Jack and Liz, or that they're at least well suited for each other. They see it, and Norrington, who may or may not turn out to be a bad guy, sees it better than anyone. Isn't that weird?--- willofthewisp


OMG YES!!!!!! could it be that they are conspiring to use Elizabeth to bait JACK!!!! OMG!!!! Whats the one thing Villans go after in movies when they want whoever they want to cooperate....they KIDNAP their family or a loved one....thats how u get adventure!!!!--PirateDiva in response to Willofthewisp^^

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Beckett to Will: Jack will be free, a privateer in the employer of England.

Will to Beckett: Somehow i doubt that Jack will consider employment the same as being free.

Beckett: *underneath his breath as he smirks* FREEDOM <--this line is very interesting to me

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Beckett to Gov. Swann: So you see massie, every man has a price he will willingly accept, even for what he hopes never to sell.

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Jack to Elizabeth: *reads letter of marque* Full pardon Commison as a privateer on be half of England and the EITC, *as he tucks away the letters* As if if i could be bought for such a low price.

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So my question is what exactly will Jack end up paying? What will Jack end up giving up and WHY? there are too many refrences that indicate that Jack eventually will BARGIN with someone whether it be Barbossa, Davey Jones, Sao Feng, Beckett or maybe even Tia Dalhma, because they may bait him with something or SOMEONE *cough*Lizzie*cough* he cares about. Every man has his price....even JACK!

what do u think? let me know! Please elaborate i know from the bottom of me hearty that these lines mean more....so tell me what ya think!

Well, if you think about it, Jack has already paid the ultimate price, don't you think? He gave up his life for Elizabeth and in doing so, also gave up his freedom. That's what gives his sacrifice so much depth. Really, I think those lines are to draw attention to one of the themes, which is what a man can or can't do when it comes to the things that he loves or cares for.
In a way, each character has something in their life that they prize above everything else, that they are willing to limit their personal happiness for.
Someone mentioned that Will knew when he was going to be murdering his father when he put the coin back into the chest in POTC 1. He sacrificed his personal happiness for her.

Governor Swann is willing to sacrifice all of his personal freedom and power for Elizabeth, and to a certain extent Norrington does the same, though in a much more self destructive way. Davy Jones sacrifices the man that he once was for the woman he loved, Beckett would be willing to sacrifice all sort of principles and lives to achieve ruling power.

So in my opinion, Jack has already paid the ultimate price for what he wants. It's possible that if the situation came down to it, he would give up Elizabeth in order either to save the day, or to put Will's happiness before his own, but it's really hard to say. He's already done that in some sense at the end of DMC.

What Jack does have to give up, however, is the Pearl. It's been a source of misery for him from the moment he sold his soul to Davy Jones. The fact that it keeps getting taken away from him isn't accidental. His fate is not meant to be tied to the Pearl. (This theory has a lot to do with false ideals, and I'll spare you unless you want to know.)

that's a VERY good thought there, PirateDiva. Another line that goes along with it well is Davy Jones' line (that was cut out of the final film) where he explains that he only bargains with people when they wager the thing closest to their heart.

What is Jack willing to give up for Elizabeth, or have we already seen him give up everything for her? Would he do it again?

I get the feeling Jack's honest streak will make another appearance, possibly in the form of him convincing her to marry Will or something, because he assumes she loves him still.

Savvysparrow, i love the false ideals theory. i would be very, very surprised if Jack ended up with the pearl in AWE.

Since we know that Jack is probably going to trade Elizabeth for his freedom early on, it holds that he should reverse that action at a later point, by sacrificing for her or bargaining something dear to him for her. Possibly trading in his life, the pearl, etc, for her freedom or something.

this is a really interesting question. thanks for bringing it up! i'm feeling very thoughtful now...

does anyone else get the feeling they would like to see Elizabeth bargain with Jones?

Of all the characters, she is the only one who has yet to sacrificing anything dear to her. So, is her relationship with Will what will be sacrificed for the greater good, or was her sacrifice giving up Jack, and subsequently that pirate part of herself? It's hard to say at this point, but she will have to sacrifice something at some point to be square with Jack and other characters as well. Is Elizabeth's ideal Freedom, or is it her relationship with Will? Or her relationship to Jack?

Piratediva, very excellent question.

I have a question, just to get everyone's opinion? How much of a sacrifice is it that she's thrown away her reputation and her life with her father? Yeah, I know she didn't enjoy it very much, but she clearly loves her dad and he loves her and she's all he has, and it's the life she's known, what she's at least familiar with. Is that a sacrifice at all? I think she's really going to suffer in the next one, but I'm wondering if that conflict is making her suffer already.

Ok yes so it seems Jack has made the ultimate sacrifice at the end of DMC, but did he really do it?....I mean i know that he died....but he didnt do it VOLUNTARILY....Liz tricked him into it!!! He was sooooo Blinded by Love when he went back to the Pearl he didnt think straight enough to see what would happen if he did!

And when he did go back Liz left him there to die!!!

So what im saying is what will JAck Ultimately Give up VOLUNTARILY? when he sees no way out except to give something up for the one he loves!

Originally posted by willofthewisp
I have a question, just to get everyone's opinion? How much of a sacrifice is it that she's thrown away her reputation and her life with her father? Yeah, I know she didn't enjoy it very much, but she clearly loves her dad and he loves her and she's all he has, and it's the life she's known, what she's at least familiar with. Is that a sacrifice at all? I think she's really going to suffer in the next one, but I'm wondering if that conflict is making her suffer already.

Maybe thats why in POTC3 they kill off Gov. Swann so that she has no more ties in Port Royal....because maybe her real destiny is out in the sea fighting along side Pirates!!!

Originally posted by PirateDiva
Ok yes so it seems Jack has made the ultimate sacrifice at the end of DMC, but did he really do it?....I mean i know that he died....but he didnt do it VOLUNTARILY....Liz tricked him into it!!! He was sooooo Blinded by Love when he went back to the Pearl he didnt think straight enough to see what would happen if he did!

And when he did go back Liz left him there to die!!!

So what im saying is what will JAck Ultimately Give up VOLUNTARILY? when he sees no way out except to give something up for the one he loves!

i definately don't think Jack was blinded by love... I think he made a decision based on rational thought (the thought being, i am willing to do this, i may die if i go back, but i love Elizabeth or respect the crew or whatever enough to go back). I dont think Jack died against his own will. It was definately a reality he probably faced before rowing back, and at that point, he was willing to risk it. Plus, one of the writers thought he was going to stay anyways.

All that being said, I still don't know if that was a sacrifice so much as a completion of who he is. I just dont watch it and see it as a sacrifice, even if it was meant to be one. I see it more as an incredibly brave, beautiful and heroic action he took because he has an honest streak, because he values human life, because he wants to be a good man.


When i think of true sacrifice (and dont make fun of me) but i think of Hercules (which is actually incredibly poignant) at the end when both Hercules and Meg have to die for each other, literally. I'd sort of like to see some people in potc do that.

On the subject of Lizzie, I def. think she's made sacrifices, but she hasn't had to fully surrender her heart's desire... or has she? Was leaving Jack a sacrifice for her?

Oh the metaphysical speculations...

Originally posted by katelovespirate
i definately don't think Jack was blinded by love... I think he made a decision based on rational thought (the thought being, i am willing to do this, i may die if i go back, but i love Elizabeth or respect the crew or whatever enough to go back). I dont think Jack died against his own will. It was definately a reality he probably faced before rowing back, and at that point, he was willing to risk it. Plus, one of the writers thought he was going to stay anyways.

All that being said, I still don't know if that was a sacrifice so much as a completion of who he is. I just dont watch it and see it as a sacrifice, even if it was meant to be one. I see it more as an incredibly brave, beautiful and heroic action he took because he has an honest streak, because he values human life, because he wants to be a good man.


When i think of true sacrifice (and dont make fun of me) but i think of Hercules (which is actually incredibly poignant) at the end when both Hercules and Meg have to die for each other, literally. I'd sort of like to see some people in potc do that.

On the subject of Lizzie, I def. think she's made sacrifices, but she hasn't had to fully surrender her heart's desire... or has she? Was leaving Jack a sacrifice for her?

Oh the metaphysical speculations...

I really do think he was blinded by love, because then what purpose would the curiosity scene have besides just showing they want each other...him going back refrenced the curiosty scene....he wanted to be admired by her....I mean we know Jack if he could get out of a situation...HE WOULD....so do u really think he told Liz...."go ahead baby, cuff me to the mast I want to stay here and DIE!"....I dont think so!

So IMO he did DIE against his will. (which is why we see him trying to get out of the cuff, he still thought i can get out of this) I'm sure the last thing on his mind going back to the Pearl was "IM GOING TO BE LEFT TO DIE ON THE PEARL BY LIZ" or anyone for that matter! We have to remember that Jack had already left the ship perfectly willing to leave the crew behind....and up til this point his compass didnt work...because he was VEXED by a woman....and at that point he knew what he wanted, it was his chance and thats what the compass pointed too...to LIZ!!!!

and about the Hercules thing....I agree....Jack already did something for LIZ....now its LIZ's turn to do something for JACK!!!

sorry, disagree... but still, you're awesome!

i really think Jack made the decision prior to rowing back to the pearl. he knew Tia would possibly bring him back anyways. i get the vibe Jack realizes fate has caught up with him, and he is finally free to BE HIMSELF--- which is, an honorably, heroic man.

i mean, he wasnt asking elizabeth to do what she did, but he accepted her decision. IMO.

Originally posted by PirateDiva
Ok yes so it seems Jack has made the ultimate sacrifice at the end of DMC, but did he really do it?....I mean i know that he died....but he didnt do it VOLUNTARILY....Liz tricked him into it!!! He was sooooo Blinded by Love when he went back to the Pearl he didnt think straight enough to see what would happen if he did!

And when he did go back Liz left him there to die!!!

So what im saying is what will JAck Ultimately Give up VOLUNTARILY? when he sees no way out except to give something up for the one he loves!


He gave up his life when he made the decision to go back to the ship. He knew that it would probably mean that he would go down with the ship. Terry has insinuated as much. Personally, I believe Elizabeth's actions were not needed and that he would have stayed regardless. That was his moment to face the music of all the bad decisions he had made in his life and had been running away from.

Hmm, this is an interesting argument. I'm kind of half and half. Maybe you'll both agree with me on this one. I think Jack made the conscious decision to go back, but I don't think he was consciously thinking, "I'm doing this because I love Elizabeth." I think he unconsciously did it for love, but thought he was going back mainly because Liz got to him about being a good person. Going back was simply the right thing to do.
For me, it wasn't until the kiss between them that he realized he was in love.

so jack loved her, he just didnt know it yet?

Yeah, kind of. Because he could make an excuse that he went back for the crew, or went back because it was the right thing to do. He could convince himself it wasn't because of her.
But when she kissed him and he realized he was pinned, there was nothing to blame it on. They were alone and he knew he wasn't going to stop her or cry out for help. He just wanted more of her and you can't explain that any other way than love.

ohhh...ok...i get what your sayin now

okay, i was reading those posts, and imagined some point in AWE where Jack says "I am in love." Jack-fashion. those are powerful words. can you picture Jack Sparrow saying that? i can-- sort of vulnerable, a bit more so than his funny proposal. "I... I'm in love with you." And Lizzie pulls back and is like WTF?! in a good way.

I have a really hard time imagining him making any sort of declaration. I could see it if his hand were forced by say, the point of a sword or in a life or death situation. He's more of a man of actions than a man of words. Words are his weapon, so when he is silent he is being truthful.
So, I'd say he'll do something that may reveal how he really feels, but I'm in doubt. It may be a one sided love affair after all. I don't know, or maybe he'll wait for the opportune moment, but it never presents itself. Not that I wouldn't love to see the movie with your way in it Kate, but I'm skeptical.

Originally posted by savvysparrow
I have a really hard time imagining him making any sort of declaration. I could see it if his hand were forced by say, the point of a sword or in a life or death situation. He's more of a man of actions than a man of words. Words are his weapon, so when he is silent he is being truthful.
So, I'd say he'll do something that may reveal how he really feels, but I'm in doubt. It may be a one sided love affair after all. I don't know, or maybe he'll wait for the opportune moment, but it never presents itself. Not that I wouldn't love to see the movie with your way in it Kate, but I'm skeptical.

Agreed

But yet it's not hard to imagine him being in love anyway. I think he'd say it...whether or not we get to hear it is another story.

haha yeah... i want to get a few minutes of Jack seriously in love and acting like it. that would be really intense. i cant quite picture it.

Not to sound stupid, but I kind of see him acting like in the "Girls Lie Too" video, just showing his girl around, giving her his best dresses he plundered, rescuing her relation from choking, wrapping her up in a towel and taking her to bed, etc. I think he'd be a really sweet, flamboyant kind of lover, you know?

I dont have any problem imagining JACK tell LIZ he loves her....because IMO we've already sort of seen it (or a version of it)....right before the kiss we saw JACK stripped from the hard exterior he had BEFORE! we saw a really vunerable Jack there....so we've seen his sensitivity, we've seen him with his guard down....and we might just get a little something something from him in POTC3....i mean the man died! coming back from death...i can definately see JACK having an emotional breakdown (maybe not an obvious one, but one in his own little Jack way)

About this threads title, shouldn't it be 'price'?