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Can these guys beat Lucifer? Odin has a week to learn and get use to the Gauntlet

Odin- http://www.immortalthor.net/bio-odin.html
Infinity Gauntlet- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Infinity_Gauntlet

&

Thanos- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thanos
Cosmic Cube- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cosmic_Cube


vs


Lucifer- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lucifer_%28DC_Comics%29

Originally posted by golem370
Can these guys beat Lucifer? Odin has a week to learn and get use to the Gauntlet

Odin- http://www.immortalthor.net/bio-odin.html
Infinity Gauntlet- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Infinity_Gauntlet

&

Thanos- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thanos
Cosmic Cube- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cosmic_Cube


vs


Lucifer- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lucifer_%28DC_Comics%29

They aren't nearly as smart as Lucifer. What outside power up are you providing for Lucifer? If he needs one.

Odin has Immeasurable Intelligence and then gaining access to the Infinity Gauntlet would give him the Intelligence of an Muti-Versal God.

A Cosmic Cube wouldn't be much of a problem for Lucifer.

and even though the IG couldn't kill Lucifer, you don't have to kill someone to beat them.

He has what ever power he usually has Godlike right Near Omnipotence

I like Odin/IG and Thanos with the Cube.

Edit Thanos also has 1 week of prep to help Odin against Lucifer

Lucifer has demonstrated vast multiversal powers far beyond the scale of the IG.

How could they be far beyond the IG

At most the IG showed the ability to manipulate two universes at once, Lucifer manipulated an uncountable number

Have you forgot that Thanos got prep? With a cosmic cube, and the IG?

Team win

Originally posted by Bouboumaster
Have you forgot that Thanos got prep? With a cosmic cube, and the IG?

Team win thanos and odin would crush his ass.

Originally posted by Endless Mike
At most the IG showed the ability to manipulate two universes at once, Lucifer manipulated an uncountable number

That was an Incomplete IG. (5 Gems)

Let's not forget it completely owned the UN (Multiversal eraser and remaker)


4 Gems (acting independantly) were creating Reality after Reality at the end of the Ultraverse saga.

Those same 4 Gems were threatening the existence of "All the Realities"


The Soul Gem claimed it could conquer Both MultiverseS from Rune's Multiverse.
(the one that houses 616 and Rune's)

The LT concluded that the IG would destroy Rune's Multiverse and alluded to the possibility of the Prime Multiverse (His Universe as he put it) being destroyed aswell.

That's atleast Two MultiverseS coming straight from the LT's mouth.

Anyone with IG can beat Lucifer it they are smart enough

hmm


Lucifer manipulated the energy contained within Michael, and did with it as he pleased...

Couldn't Lucifer do the same with the energies of the IG?


srug

Originally posted by Galan007
hmm


Lucifer manipulated the energy contained within Michael, and did with it as he pleased...

Could Lucifer do the same with the energies of the IG?


srug

The Energies of the IG are NOTHING compared to the power within Micheal. Nuff said.

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
The Energies of the IG are NOTHING compared to the power within Micheal. Nuff said. That's my point...

"Nuff said".

Originally posted by Galan007
hmm


Lucifer manipulated the energy contained within Michael, and did with it as he pleased...

Couldn't Lucifer do the same with the energies of the IG?

Did Michael try to stop him?

Or did he overpower Michael for the power?

Or did Michael allow him to use his power?


What happened exactly?

The IG has NEVER ever Shown any superiority over a multiversal BEING.

Originally posted by Mr Master
Did Michael try to stop him?

Or did he overpower Michael for the power?

Or did Michael allow him to use his power?


What happened exactly? Michael was vanquished, and the raw power contained within him was released all at once...

It was this energy that Lucifer completely manipulated.

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
The IG has NEVER ever Shown any superiority over a multiversal BEING.

4 Gems (Power-Space-Mind-Soul) created UniverseS:

http://img352.imageshack.us/img352/995/n5pa7.th.jpg
"Each New Wave CREATED another New Reality"




These same 4 Gems, threatened "ALL the REALITIES"


"What do you mean NOTHING belongs here?" ... "This whole Reality is wrong"
http://img412.imageshack.us/img412/44/n7en8.th.jpg
"These Two Gems (Time-Reality) must be reunited,

otherwise ALL REALITIES, including this one, will be destroyed,

I have to use them to CREATE a New and stronger Reality,

'one whose Fabric isn't unravelling as this one is"

Originally posted by Galan007
Michael was vanquished, and the raw power contained within him was released all at once...

It was this energy that Lucifer completely manipulated.

Which would mean that lucifer can manipulate any energy source no matter how powerful. even the Heart of the universe. Same logic you guys use for the UN and the Ig. am I correct?

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
Which would mean that lucifer can manipulate any energy source no matter how powerful. even the Heart of the universe. Lucifer, Michael, and the IG are all I'm debating here...

Keep your HOTI discussion in the appropriate thread.

Originally posted by Galan007
Lucifer, Michael, and the IG are all I'm debating here...

Keep your HOTI discussion in the appropriate thread.

I just said no matter how powerful the energy source.

How did Lucifer manipulate Michael's power?

Originally posted by Mr Master
Did Michael try to stop him?

Or did he overpower Michael for the power?

Or did Michael allow him to use his power?


What happened exactly?

Originally posted by Mr Master
Did Michael try to stop him?

Or did he overpower Michael for the power?

Or did Michael allow him to use his power?


What happened exactly? Lucifer killed Mike, and all the energy within him was released at once..


Picture Mike as an Atomic bomb.

Before this bomb is detonated, all of it's potential energy is stored within an outer shell.

But once detonated, all of it's energy is released, and *POOF*, there goes Hiroshima...



Lucifer manipulated Michael's raw energy, and turned it into a Multiverse.

Energy control of that magnitude is rare, even in comic-dom...




So it got me wondering if Lucifer could manipulate the IG's energy, the same way the IG manipulated the UN's energy.

Originally posted by Galan007
Lucifer killed Mike, and all the energy within him was released at once..

So Luc>Mike?

I thought it was the other way around.

Originally posted by Galan007
Lucifer manipulated Michael's raw energy, and turned it into a Multiverse.

Energy control of that magnitude is rare, even in comic-dom...

Creating a Multiverse?

That's not off the charts, imo.

Originally posted by Mr Master
So Luc>Mike?

I thought it was the other way around. Mike allowed Lucifer to slay him, for reasons I don't feel like explaining lol.
Originally posted by Mr Master
Creating a Multiverse?

That's not off the charts, imo. Creating a Multiverse by shaping another characters power?


Not many have accomplished that task.

Originally posted by Galan007
So it got me wondering if Lucifer could manipulate the IG's energy, the same way the IG manipulated the UN's energy.

Even LT couldn't manipulate the IG, he was going to have to strip it from Warlock by force.

No way, Luc is accomplishing something the LT can't.

IMO.

Originally posted by Galan007
Mike allowed Lucifer to slay him, for reasons I don't feel like explaining lol.

So Luc was allowed to manipulate.

That's what I was getting at.

Could he have manipulated Michael's power without Michael's consent?

Originally posted by Galan007
Creating a Multiverse by shaping another characters power?

Not many have accomplished that task.

The fashion he used to create is another matter.

The fact is, he was only able to create a Multiverse,

and that's not unheard of.


But it's true, not many can.

Originally posted by Mr Master
Even LT couldn't manipulate the IG, he was going to have to strip it from Warlock by force.

No way, Luc is accomplishing something the LT can't.

IMO. Remember though.

Lucifer = Gods will.

Mike = God's power.


Mike = THOTI >> IG


Lucifer had the will to manipulate that type of raw power, and turn it into a Multiverse.



I don't see why he couldn't do the same thing with a lesser force.

Originally posted by Galan007
Remember though.

Lucifer = Gods will.

Mike = God's power.


Mike = THOTI >> IG


Lucifer had the will to manipulate that type of raw power, and turn it into a Multiverse.



I don't see why he couldn't do the same thing with a lesser force.

Because it's in his powerset to control those energies (he's God's "will" after all)

But Luc has no affiliations with the IG,

the IG wouldn't be so receptive, as God's "power" would, which is basically a part of him in a way.

Originally posted by Mr Master
So Luc was allowed to manipulate.

That's what I was getting at.

Could he have manipulated Michael's power without Michael's consent? That's what I'm trying to explain.

Mike let Lucifer kill him without defending himself.

But once Mike was dead, all his power remained.

The only thing that allowed Lucifer to shape this raw energy, was his unprecedented will power.


No consent was given for this to occur, .

Originally posted by Mr Master
Because it's in his powerset to control those energies (he's God's "will" after all)

But Luc has no affiliations with the IG,

the IG wouldn't be so receptive, as God's "power" would, which is basically a part of him in a way. So you think Lucifer can only control those energies, and even though the IG is under Mike, Lucifer couldn't touch it?

That makes zero sense.

Originally posted by Galan007
That's what I'm trying to explain.

Mike let Lucifer kill him without defending himself.

But once Mike was dead, all his power remained.

The only thing that allowed Lucifer to shape this raw energy, was his unprecedented will power.


No consent was given for this to occur, .

So if Luc is supposedly God's "Will"

and he had just acquired God's "Power" aswell,

why didn't he just take over?

Why didn't he rearrange DC?

Why didn't he create more than a Multiverse?

Why didn't he challenge the Presence for supremacy?


Heck, this sounds like he was equal to the Presence.

He had the Presence's "Will" and "Power" ... that's another "Supreme Being"

Originally posted by Mr Master
So if Luc is supposedly God's "Will"

and he had just acquired God's "Power" aswell,

why didn't he just take over?

Why didn't he rearrange DC?

Why didn't he create more than a Multiverse?

Why didn't he challenge the Presence for supremacy?


Heck, this sounds like he was equal to the Presence.

He had the Presence's "Will" and "Power" ... that's another "Supreme Being"

He didn't "have" Mike's power, he just manipulated it.


And he wanted his OWN creation, one that had nothing to do with God. He wasn't interested in conquering anything.

Originally posted by Galan007
So you think Lucifer can only control those energies,

and even though the IG is under Mike, Lucifer couldn't touch it?

That makes zero sense.

Again,

he was able to manipulate Michael's energy cause it was hostless,

but he can't if they're being harnessed by Michael.


Thanos took control of THOTI, it was ambient energy without a host.


Same thing I believe.

Thanos was able because it was there for the taking, had TOAA not permitted this, it wouldn't have happened.

Had Michael not permitted LCF to kill him, this also seems like it would not have happened.

Originally posted by Mr Master

Had Michael not permitted LCF to kill him, this also seems like it would not have happened.

Originally posted by Galan007


Can LCF control Michael's energy without Michael allowing it?


I thought you said Michael let LCF kill him, in order for LCF to create?


Unless LCF can strip Michael of his power (while alive) and then manipulate it.


Otherwise this is no different than THOTI.

TOAA placed it there so Thanos can come, take it, manipulate it, and re-create Reality.


Now I agree, (standalone) LCF>>Thanos

but evidently, they were both able to manipulate the Power of the Almighty.

Originally posted by Mr Master
Now I agree, (standalone) LCF>>Thanos

but evidently, they were both able to manipulate the Power of the Almighty. However,

Lucifer manipulated this power to a greater degree imo.



The reason being,

He created a Multiverse from nothingness.

Originally posted by Galan007
However,

Lucifer manipulated this power to a greater degree imo.

The reason being,

He created a Multiverse from nothingness.

So did Thanos.

Thanos completely erase the Multiverse,

and then created a New Multiverse that was almost the same as the old one.


With a few differences,

like the Universal Flaw in 616 was gone,

and Thanos also implamented a New Cosmic law,

Death becoming permanent, no more unnatural resurrections,

unless it's in their powerset. (like Mr Immortal)

Originally posted by Galan007
However,

Lucifer manipulated this power to a greater degree imo.



The reason being,

He created a Multiverse from nothingness.

Thanos also Erased and must of re-created the LT.


As we know the LT holds MegaverseS in one hand.

Originally posted by Mr Master
So did Thanos.

Thanos completely erase the Multiverse,

and then created a New Multiverse that was almost the same as the old one.


With a few differences,

like the Universal Flaw in 616 was gone,

and Thanos also implamented a New Cosmic law,

Death becoming permanent, no more unnatural resurrections,

unless it's in their powerset. (like Mr Immortal) Lucifer created a Multiverse from nothingness.


Thanos just put back what was already there, and changed a few things.

Originally posted by Galan007
Lucifer created a Multiverse from nothingness.


Thanos just put back what was already there, and changed a few things.

Actually,

there was nothing there.



"Nothing Remained"
http://img165.imageshack.us/img165/991/allhecouldum7.th.jpg





Thanos Re-creates the Multiverse from nothingness:

http://img242.imageshack.us/img242/9447/t1qm1.th.jpg

It may have been the same likeness of the previous Multiverse,

but it was a New Multiverse nontheless.

Originally posted by Mr Master
Actually,

there was nothing there.



"Nothing Remained"
http://img165.imageshack.us/img165/991/allhecouldum7.th.jpg If I eat a slice of pizza and throw it up, did I just create a pizza slice from nothingness?

Originally posted by Mr Master
Thanos Re-creates the Multiverse from nothingness:

http://img242.imageshack.us/img242/9447/t1qm1.th.jpg

It may have been the same likeness of the previous Multiverse,

but it was a New Multiverse nontheless.

Actually there's a little more to this cropped scan.... If you post the whole page, it's not as cut and dry as you make it seem.


Or I can post the whole page if you wish.

Btw brother G,

that's not Thanos's big moment,

absorbing the LT far outclasses his feat of re-creating Reality.

Originally posted by Galan007
If I eat a slice of pizza and throw it up, did I just create a pizza slice from nothingness?

You eat a slice of pizza and throw it up,

if it's still a slice of pizza instead of mushed cheese and bread,

that would be impressive.


Not a solid analogy brother G.


Originally posted by Galan007
Actually there's a little more to this cropped scan.... If you post the whole page, it's not as cut and dry as you make it seem.


Or I can post the whole page if you wish.

http://img524.imageshack.us/img524/8202/thuy5.th.jpg


Enlighten me.

"The time has come for the final resurrection"

res·ur·rec·tion (rĕz'ə-rĕk'shən)
n.

The act of rising from the dead or returning to life.
The state of one who has returned to life.
The act of bringing back to practice, notice, or use; revival.


"The cancer will be eradicated from the Patient (Universe)"


Thanos didn't have to recreate a completely new Patient (Universe), he just had to give what was already there a sort of cosmic chemotherapy:

http://i79.imagethrust.com/t/1171062/t1.jpg

Originally posted by Galan007
"The time has come for the final resurrection"

"The cancer will be eradicated from the Patient (Universe)"


Thanos didn't have to recreate a completely new Patient (Universe), he just had to give what was already there a sort of cosmic chemotherapy:

http://i79.imagethrust.com/t/1171062/t1.jpg

In plain english:

http://img74.imageshack.us/img74/2268/thsbo4.th.jpg

"I perceived Reality's sole hope for salvation,

the Cure lay in starting over from scratch"




Doesn't get much clearer than that:

"from scratch"

Originally posted by Mr Master
In plain english:

http://img74.imageshack.us/img74/2268/thsbo4.th.jpg

"I perceived Reality's sole hope for salvation,

the Cure lay in starting over from scratch"




Hey, there's that word you were using for LCF,

"from scratch" "in plain english"

Other panels contradict this one.

Originally posted by Galan007
"in plain english"

Other panels contradict this one.

I'm wondering which one?


Thanos said Reality had to start over from scratch. (On Panel)

Thanos absorbed eveything until nothing remained. (On Panel)

Thanos created a Reality from a void of nothingness. (On Panel)


shrug

Originally posted by Mr Master
I'm wondering which one?


Thanos said Reality had to start over from scrath. (On Panel)

Thanos absorbed eveything until nothing remained. (On Panel)

Thanos created a Reality from a void of nothingness. (On Panel)


shrug He "resurrected" what was already there.

He "eradicated the cancer from the patient" in the process.

Originally posted by Galan007
He "resurrected" what was already there.

What was there?

http://img165.imageshack.us/img165/991/allhecouldum7.th.jpg
"Nothing Remained"


Originally posted by Galan007
He "eradicated the cancer from the patient" in the process.

Actually, there was no way of fixing the Universal flaw:

http://img505.imageshack.us/img505/9707/thshb7.th.jpg




Which is why Thanos said:

http://img74.imageshack.us/img74/2268/thsbo4.th.jpg

"I perceived Reality's sole hope for salvation,

the Cure lay in starting over from scratch"



The ONLY way to fix the Cosmos,

was to erase the damaged Cosmos, and create a New Cosmos (the same)

but without the flaw and some changes.

Originally posted by Mr Master
What was there?

http://img165.imageshack.us/img165/991/allhecouldum7.th.jpg
"Nothing Remained"




Actually, there was no way of fixing the Universal flaw:

http://img505.imageshack.us/img505/9707/thshb7.th.jpg




Which is why Thanos said:

http://img74.imageshack.us/img74/2268/thsbo4.th.jpg

"I perceived Reality's sole hope for salvation,

the Cure lay in starting over from scratch" But again,

Thanos went on the say...

"The cancer will be eradicated from the patient (Universe)":
http://i79.imagethrust.com/t/1171062/t1.jpg

So apparently there was fixing the Universal flaw.

Originally posted by Galan007
But again,

Thanos went on the say...

"The cancer will be eradicated from the patient (Universe)":
http://i79.imagethrust.com/t/1171062/t1.jpg

So apparently there was fixing the Universal flaw.

Yes,

the Universal flaw was fixed when a completely New Reality (representing the old one) was created.


"the Patient"

is the Reality with a flaw, he's re-creating the same Reality just anew.

So I'm not surprised by that statement.

Originally posted by Mr Master
Yes,

the Universal flaw was fixed when a completely New Reality (representing the old one) was created.


"the Patient"

is the Reality with a flaw, he's re-creating the same Reality just anew.

So I'm not surprised by that statement. That's what you think this statement implies?:

"The cancer will be eradicated FROM the patient"


Ok.


Remember to that Thanos uses the word "resurrection", by definition that word contradicts your opinion on this matter.



But 'tis all good, this is starting to get boring and repetitive.

Originally posted by Galan007
That's what you think this statement implies?:

"The cancer will be eradicated FROM the patient"


Ok.

And you think this statement implies that Reality was still there when it was illustrated getting erased on panel.

Ok

Originally posted by Galan007
Remember to that Thanos uses the word "resurrection", by definition that word contradicts your opinion on this matter.

I disagree.

I think I posted sufficient relevant scans that,

show Thanos trying to fix the flaw and failing,

Thanos says that only by re-creating Reality from "scratch" will fix it,

Thanos absorbs eveything until nothing remained, ("scratch"

Thanos re-creates everything depicted on panel by a flow of energy coming from his body blowing outward, as the energy expands so is Reality created.



All I was trying to understand is where was the "patient" you're talking about?


Was it the Void?

Was it erased from existence?

Was it within Thanos, if so as what? (energy or actual matter)

If it was stored within Thanos, when he released it, did it create Reality on it's own?

Or was Thanos the sculptor?

(imo, it was Thanos because he changed Cosmic Laws)



These are legitimate questions imo.


IMO, it was as it was in the arc,

Reality couldn't be fixed because of a problem (flaw)
Reality had to be erased,
Reality had to be created again anew, without the problem (flaw)


This reminds me of the UN, that's what the UN did in the Abraxas arc, create a Multiverse in which Abraxas never manifested, it's the same Reality as before, but recreated to a moment where Abraxas didn't go free (that would be one where Galactus never died)



Meh, it's ok for us to disagree, this is actually fun for a while, great ideas on both camps are posted, which is always an entertainment for the onlookers.

Originally posted by Galan007
But 'tis all good, this is starting to get boring and repetitive.

I agree.

I think there's enough info coming from the left and right for others to make an educated guess.

Originally posted by Mr Master
And you think this statement implies that Reality was still there when it was illustrated getting erased on panel.

Ok This may be where the confusion lies...


I'm not saying Thanos didn't absorb/erase reality in it's entirety, because we both know he did.


What I mean, is simply that he didn't recreate an entirely new reality, .

Instead he just "resurrected" the old reality, and made a few changes to it.

Originally posted by Mr Master
I agree.

I think there's enough info coming from the left and right for others to make an educated guess. Absolutely.