Beyonders and Infinites, are they the same

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guy222
Maybe

guy222
Originally posted by guy222
Maybe

little research no
wink

trolly_crouchjr
But which is more powerful?that is the question

Thanos_THOTU
Originally posted by trolly_crouchjr
But which is more powerful?that is the question
Infinity's > Eternity > Galactus > Celestials > Cosmic Cubes > Beyonders (Incomplete Cosmic Cubes)

celestialdemon
Originally posted by Thanos_THOTU
Infinity's > Eternity > Galactus > Celestials > Cosmic Cubes > Beyonders (Incomplete Cosmic Cubes)

He's referring to the Beyonders from the "Beyonderverse". They release small amounts of energy into 616 that become Cosmic Cubes. Although I don't think they've been seen on panel, it's theorized that they are more powerful than Cosmic Cubes since creating them is merely an experiment to them.

Galan007
Originally posted by celestialdemon
He's referring to the Beyonders from the "Beyonderverse". They release small amounts of energy into 616 that become Cosmic Cubes. Although I don't think they've been seen on panel, it's theorized that they are more powerful than Cosmic Cubes since creating them is merely an experiment to them. So the "true" Beyonders then?

King Kandy
You know... i never considered it... but I guess that they could be the same...

guy222
Originally posted by Galan007
So the "true" Beyonders then?

yes
marvel two in one #61

guy222
Originally posted by King Kandy
You know... i never considered it... but I guess that they could be the same...

i thought so also

Galan007
Originally posted by guy222
yes
marvel two in one #61 IMO the "true" Beyonders>Infinites

guy222
Originally posted by Galan007
IMO the "true" Beyonders>Infinites

co signed

happy new year

off to work

GalacticStorm
Originally posted by Galan007
IMO the "true" Beyonders>Infinites

Whats your reasoning behind that? Not doubting it, just curious.

Galan007
Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Whats your reasoning behind that? Not doubting it, just curious. Because I personally have not seen an Infinite do anything more impressive then handleing Eternity.

Weyoun
There is no reasoning like so many of the statements on this forum it seems to have no evidence or basis in reasoning. I don't see myself being here very long the boys are so young.

GalacticStorm
Originally posted by Galan007
Because I personally have not seen an Infinite do anything more impressive then handleing Eternity.

I havent seen LT do anything more impressive either so im not sure how solid that logic is.

Galan007
Originally posted by GalacticStorm
I havent seen LT do anything more impressive either so im not sure how solid that logic is. Thanos became Eternity and one with the universe when he possessed the IG, Warlock handled Eternity like a child with the IG.

Yet LT is much more powerful then that as he snuffed out the IG like a candle.

Regardless, thats not where the debate lies. The true Beyonders' mere experiments resulted in cosmic cubes. Even the Beyonder himself was nothing more then an Incomplete cosmic cube.

The Infinites just haven't been as impressive IMO.

Galan007
Originally posted by Weyoun
There is no reasoning like so many of the statements on this forum it seems to have no evidence or basis in reasoning. I don't see myself being here very long the boys are so young. Then leave.

Don't spam/troll threads complaining like a child. roll eyes (sarcastic)

breeze85
Agreed with Galan007.

What comes to LT then. After Adam Warlock used IG to wipe out a bunch of abstracts, LT only had to snap his fingers which instantly calmed down the rage of IG, yet resurrected the cosmic entities. I think that's a great showing of his ultimate power.

Kutulu
Originally posted by breeze85
Agreed with Galan007.

What comes to LT then. After Adam Warlock used IG to wipe out a bunch of abstracts, LT only had to snap his fingers which instantly calmed down the rage of IG, yet resurrected the cosmic entities. I think that's a great showing of his ultimate power.

^^ Excellent point. Re-creating Eternity with a snap of your fingers is pretty high up there in terms of feats.

GalacticStorm
Originally posted by Galan007
Thanos became Eternity and one with the universe when he possessed the IG, Warlock handled Eternity like a child with the IG.

Yet LT is much more powerful then that as he snuffed out the IG like a candle.

Regardless, thats not where the debate lies. The true Beyonders' mere experiments resulted in cosmic cubes. Even the Beyonder himself was nothing more then an Incomplete cosmic cube.

The Infinites just haven't been as impressive IMO.

Lt never faced the full power of the IG. He shut down a blast of energy from the IG thats all.

Then when Adam submitted after LT guilt tripped him, LT shut down an inanimate object. An Ig that wasnt being utilised by a wielder against him. Thats not impressive.

A tank or a fighter plane are only impressive with someone controlling them. Unmanned they can be dismantled with a few powertools.

Theres no evidence to suggest the True Beyonders are more powerful than the Infinites. The Infinites servants were moving planets out of orbit and shaping solar systems. So its a toss up.

GalacticStorm
Originally posted by breeze85
Agreed with Galan007.

What comes to LT then. After Adam Warlock used IG to wipe out a bunch of abstracts, LT only had to snap his fingers which instantly calmed down the rage of IG, yet resurrected the cosmic entities. I think that's a great showing of his ultimate power.

The abstracts got blown back. There was nothing on panel stating or depicting that they got blown apart.

Saying LT resurrected them is speculation. He restored order. He cancelled out the blasts affects on the arena and restored the abstracts to their positions.

Given that we dont know if that was a full power blast from the IG you cant automatically place LT above the IG based solely on that action.

LT talked Adam out of a confrontation and went on to depower an inanimate objective. An IG not being wielded.

Prof S.T.I.
Originally posted by Weyoun
There is no reasoning like so many of the statements on this forum it seems to have no evidence or basis in reasoning. I don't see myself being here very long the boys are so young.

So you're into older men heh ? wink

Whats an Infinity ? And whats the difference between a True Be-yonder, and the one Thanos recently manhandled ?

Galan007
Originally posted by GalacticStorm
The Infinites servants were moving planets out of orbit and shaping solar systems. So its a toss up. Well by that statement, PC Superman=Infinites.

Afterall, he easily pulled planets out of orbit, and his sneeze destroyed a solar system.....

Do you see where I'm coming from? We both have our oppinions, but I beleive that the true Beyonders are more powerful then the Infinites.Originally posted by GalacticStorm
The abstracts got blown back. There was nothing on panel stating or depicting that they got blown apart.

Saying LT resurrected them is speculation. He restored order. He cancelled out the blasts affects on the arena and restored the abstracts to their positions.

Given that we dont know if that was a full power blast from the IG you cant automatically place LT above the IG based solely on that action.

LT talked Adam out of a confrontation and went on to depower an inanimate objective. An IG not being wielded. We do know that LT>IG.

It was his ruleing that the Gems could never work in unison unless he allowed it.

If the IG was more powerful then LT, his ruling would have been negated.

LT being more powerful then the Infinity Gems isn't even a question IMO.

Prof S.T.I.
Originally posted by Prof S.T.I.
wink

Whats an Infinity ? And whats the difference between a True Be-yonder, and the one Thanos recently manhandled ?

Is everyone too pretentious in here to answer a newbies question ?

guy222
Originally posted by GalacticStorm
I havent seen LT do anything more impressive either so im not sure how solid that logic is.

The One Above All is the only one more powerful than LT
LT was challenged by a deviant w/SB cool

guy222
Originally posted by Prof S.T.I.
Is everyone too pretentious in here to answer a newbies question ?

i am reading my dictionary

true beyonders beyonder not the same
how it was written

thanos defeating the maker was ****

Prof S.T.I.
Originally posted by guy222
i am reading my dictionary

true beyonders beyonder not the same
how it was written

thanos defeating the maker was ****

And what language dictionary should i use to translate this ?

GalacticStorm
Originally posted by Galan007
Well by that statement, PC Superman=Infinites.

Afterall, he easily pulled planets out of orbit, and his sneeze destroyed a solar system.....

Do you see where I'm coming from? We both have our oppinions, but I beleive that the true Beyonders are more powerful then the Infinites.

Umm not exactly G cos it was the Infinites servants who shaped planets and solar systems. Not they themselves.

Originally posted by Galan007
We do know that LT>IG.

It was his ruleing that the Gems could never work in unison unless he allowed it.

If the IG was more powerful then LT, his ruling would have been negated.

LT being more powerful then the Infinity Gems isn't even a question IMO.

Precisely, in your opinion. LT talked Adam out of a confrontation, he stated that it would take a reality destroying confrontation for him to find out if he had the power to overpower Adam with the IG.

AFTER he guilt tripped Adam out of using the IG against him, LT ruled against an inanimate object. That does not prove LT is more powerful.

In the canon Ultraverse crossover and in the canon Avengers/JLA crossover the IG has since been used despite LTs ruling. So much for his ruling proving he was more powerful.

Im not saying he isnt. Im saying that instance isnt proof of it.

Galan007
Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Umm not exactly G cos it was the Infinites servants who shaped planets and solar systems. Not they themselves. Right, but SUPERMAN did this easily as well, so it's not that impressive to me. I'm not saying that the Infinites aren't badass, but using their servants feats isn't a good logic to go by. Tell me what they have done.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
In teh canon Ultraverse crossover and in the canon Avengers/JLA crossover the IG has since been used despite LTs ruling. So much for his ruling proving he was more powerful. Why couldn't Warlock or Magus use the IG again?

Could it have been because LT said it couldn't be used?

But really whats the point of this portion of the debate? It's not what the topic at hand is.

guy222
Originally posted by Prof S.T.I.
And what language dictionary should i use to translate this ?

laughing

got mine at the 99c store laughing out loud

GalacticStorm
Originally posted by Galan007
Right, but SUPERMAN did this easily as well, so it's not that impressive to me. I'm not saying that the Infinites aren't badass, but using their servants feats isn't a good logic to go by. Tell me what they have done.

Well isnt that what you just did to try an illustrate how powerful you think the True Beyonders are? :

Originally posted by Galan007
The true Beyonders' mere experiments resulted in cosmic cubes. Even the Beyonder himself was nothing more then an Incomplete cosmic cube.

The Infinites just haven't been as impressive IMO.



Originally posted by Galan007
Why couldn't Warlock or Magus use the IG again?

Could it have been because LT said it couldn't be used?

But really whats the point of this portion of the debate? It's not what the topic at hand is.

They couldnt get it working cos LTs ruling was applied WHILE IT WAS INANIMATE AND NOT BEING OPERATED. Going back to my tank and fighter plane example. If someone mucked about with their inner workings regardless of how powerful they are, they just arent going to work are they?

Thats not a good example of LT being more powerful than the IG.

LT doubted himself on panel against the IG when it was being operated. He had to talk Adam out of using it against BEFORE he could apply his ruling.

Said ruling clearly wasnt a permamnent thing as illustrated by the subsequent canon use of the IG.

The Infinites were clearly far more powerful than Eternity. Only the likes of IG and Phoenix among a few others have conclusively shown to be so on panel. Therefore theyre top tier. Not necessarily any weaker or more powerful than the T B's but then the same goes the other way.

Galan007
Originally posted by GalacticStorm
The Infinites were clearly far more powerful than Eternity. Only the likes of IG and Phoenix among a few others have conclusively shown to be so on panel. Therefore theyre top tier. Not necessarily any weaker or more powerful than the T B's but then the same goes the other way. Magus had either 5 or 6 cosmic cubes, and that was enough for him to easily create an alternate reality, and he was even going to merge that reality with the 616 reality using only the cosmic cubes, but that would have taken too much time for him.

Yet those cubes were nothing but experimentations of the true beyonders.

Prof S.T.I.
Originally posted by GalacticStorm



In the canon Ultraverse crossover and in the canon Avengers/JLA crossover the IG has since been used despite LTs ruling. So much for his ruling proving he was more powerful.

Im not saying he isnt. Im saying that instance isnt proof of it.

Galactus used it in the Thanos mini aswell.

Any way : Is everyone too pretentious in here to answer a newbies question ?

Galan007
Originally posted by Prof S.T.I.
Galactus used it in the Thanos mini aswell. He never actually used the Gems, he just acquired them.

The gems powered a crux which he thought would cure his hunger, thats why he collected them.

Prof S.T.I.
Originally posted by GalacticStorm


The Infinites were clearly far more powerful than Eternity. Only the likes of IG and Phoenix among a few others have conclusively shown to be so on panel. T

Thats ironic because the phoenix has never demonstrated such power, ON PANEL. Shes usually a mid rank cosmic character, i.e. on the same level as a G.L. She was killed by Magneto, don't you know ?

Prof S.T.I.
Originally posted by Galan007


The gems powered a crux which he thought would cure his hunger, thats why he collected them.

So you don't think they where powering the crux together (because they cant do that) ? Where some of them there just there for decoration, like the one he went to real efforts to acquire off Adam Warlock. That would make a lot of sense.

Galan007
Originally posted by Prof S.T.I.
So you don't think they where powering the crux together (because they cant do that) ? Where some of them there just there for decoration, like the one he went to real efforts to acquire off Adam Warlock. That would make a lot of sense. I don't really understand what your saying.

All I did was explain that Big G did nothing with the Gems, and I went on to explain his reasoning for obtaining them.

Prof S.T.I.
Originally posted by Galan007
I don't really understand what your saying.

All I did was explain that Big G did nothing with the Gems, and I went on to explain his reasoning for obtaining them.

I'm saying it was obvious that Galactus only collected the gems for decorations.

GalacticStorm
Originally posted by Galan007
Magus had either 5 or 6 cosmic cubes, and that was enough for him to easily create an alternate reality, and he was even going to merge that reality with the 616 reality using only the cosmic cubes, but that would have taken too much time for him.

Yet those cubes were nothing but experimentations of the true beyonders.

Certain past use of nuclear weapons can be deemed experimentation and field testing Galan does their destructive power reflect our own physical attributes? Galan, your logic isnt solid.

You've seen no showing of power from the True Beyonders and yet you would speculate that because their experiments were so powerful that they must also be ridiculously powerful. Not necessarily as ive just illustrated.

At least with the Infinites you have an impressive on panel demonstration of power. One on par with some of the IGs feats. The True Beyonders have nothing. Therefore your case is unsupported on panel.

Prof S.T.I.
Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Certain past use of nuclear weapons can be deemed experimentation and field testing Galan does their destructive power reflect our own physical attributes? Galan, your logic isnt solid.

No you're logic isn't solid, you're clearly suggesting that the cubes are more powerful than the beyonders.

A better analogy would be; a human creating a hamster wheel, to see if the hamster will use it. Are humans not alot more powerful than hamster wheels.

GalacticStorm
Originally posted by Prof S.T.I.
Thats ironic because the phoenix has never demonstrated such power, ON PANEL. Shes usually a mid rank cosmic character, i.e. on the same level as a G.L. She was killed by Magneto, don't you know ?

On panel she cut away at the substance of time, amputating the future of 616 and fatally wounding Eternity. Such a feat was unprecedented in Marvel. Yes people have manipulated time, within the boundaries of the chronal axis, forwarded, it reversed it and so on but she actually cut away at its substance. She then manipulated the matter of the entire universe at an atomic level, materializing it in the palm of her hand.


When she needs to the girl can throw down eek!

Prof S.T.I.
Originally posted by GalacticStorm
On panel she cut away at the substance of time, amputating the future of 616 and fatally wounding Eternity. Such a feat was unprecedented in Marvel. Yes people have manipulated time, within the boundaries of the chronal axis, forwarded, it reversed it and so on but she actually cut away at its substance. She then manipulated the matter of the entire universe at an atomic level, materializing it in the palm of her hand.

I've heard this was off Panel in X-men forever ?

And Babes i bet you can throw down when you want to ... wink

GalacticStorm
Originally posted by Prof S.T.I.
No you're logic isn't solid, you're clearly suggesting that the cubes are more powerful than the beyonders.

A better analogy would be; a human creating a hamster wheel, to see if the hamster will use it. Are humans not alot more powerful than hamster wheels.

No im not suggesting that at all. Because in reality we dont know how the T B's compare power wise to their experiments and that was my point.

Galan claimed that the Cubes were illustrative of the power of the TB's just because they were their experiments, which lead to me illustrating how powerful experiments were not necessarily representative of the inherent power of the masterminds behind them.

My logic was sufficient. wink

GalacticStorm
Originally posted by Prof S.T.I.
I've heard this was off Panel in X-men forever ?

Well u heard wrong then my friend. That is why you should always research into things yourself as opposed to swallowing whatever you come across on the forum.

GalacticStorm
Ive forgotten which one of the duo you are so i dont know whether to be nice or condescending wink

Prof S.T.I.
Originally posted by GalacticStorm

Galan claimed that the Cubes were illustrative of the power of the TB's just because they were their experiments, which lead to me illustrating how powerful experiments were not necessarily representative of the inherent power of masterminds behind them.



I don't think my hamster analogy counts as a 'Powerful experiment'. I'm pretty sure our cosmos would seem pretty basic compared to beings as powerful as the Beyonders. You don't undertake Nuclear experiments on hamsters.

GalacticStorm
Originally posted by Prof S.T.I.
I don't think my hamster analogy counts as a 'Powerful experiment'. I'm pretty sure our cosmos would seem pretty basic compared to beings as powerful as the Beyonders. You don't undertake Nuclear experiments on hamsters.

wink Got you sussed.

Prof S.T.I.
Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Ive forgotten which one of the duo you are so i don't know whether to be nice or condescending wink

Oh god not more bloody sock accusations. Is everyone so lame on here that they have to resort to them. I might as well go back to the other forums, you don't get the same level of desperation.

GalacticStorm
Originally posted by Prof S.T.I.
Oh god not more bloody sock accusations. Is everyone so lame on here that they have to resort to them. I might as well go back to the other forums, you don't get the same level of desperation.

So how are the studies going?

Prof S.T.I.
Originally posted by GalacticStorm
wink Got you sussed.

Does that mean youre up for cyber sex ? smile

Prof S.T.I.
Originally posted by GalacticStorm
So how are the studies going?

I left school a long time ago (After GCSE's), in Hedingly (outside of Leeds). I got bullied for being clever and liking comics. Why are u changing the subject Please could u answer the question.

GalacticStorm
Originally posted by Prof S.T.I.
Does that mean youre up for cyber sex ? smile

After dinner maybe.

Bedtime for me now anyway. Nite nite. smile

Prof S.T.I.
Originally posted by GalacticStorm
After dinner maybe.

Bedtime for me now anyway. Nite nite. smile

Youre having Dinner in bed ? How Willy Wonka of you.

guy222
Originally posted by Prof S.T.I.
Galactus used it in the Thanos mini aswell.

Any way : Is everyone too pretentious in here to answer a newbies question ?

didn't like the mini series, hunger looked silly smokin'

Galan007
Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Galan claimed that the Cubes were illustrative of the power of the TB's just because they were their experiments, which lead to me illustrating how powerful experiments were not necessarily representative of the inherent power of the masterminds behind them. Wait, so things creatures create are ALWAYS more powerful then the creature itself?

Is Silver Surfer more powerful then Galactus? Afterall Galactus is the one who endowed Surfer with the power cosmic.

It works both ways my friend. wink

Prof S.T.I.
Originally posted by Galan007
Wait, so things creatures create are ALWAYS more powerful then the creature itself?

Is Silver Surfer more powerful then Galactus? Afterall Galactus is the one who endowed Surfer with the power cosmic.

It works both ways my friend. wink

My analogy of the hamster was better ! stick out tongue

Galan007
Originally posted by Prof S.T.I.
My analogy of the hamster was better ! stick out tongue I know, but I tried my best...

stick out tongue

celestialdemon
Originally posted by Galan007
Wait, so things creatures create are ALWAYS more powerful then the creature itself?

Is Silver Surfer more powerful then Galactus? Afterall Galactus is the one who endowed Surfer with the power cosmic.

It works both ways my friend. wink

True, it does work both ways. His opinion was that just because the True Beyonders created the cosmic cubes doesn't mean they are automatically more powerful than the cubes. I'm inclined to agree. They may be more powerful and they may not be. There's no proof leaning either way.

Galactus created Silver Surfer and he dwarfs SS in power. At the same time, The Hive created Adam Warlock, and they are nothing to him. Like you said, works both ways.

Galan007
Originally posted by celestialdemon
True, it does work both ways. His opinion was that just because the True Beyonders created the cosmic cubes doesn't mean they are automatically more powerful than the cubes. I'm inclined to agree. They may be more powerful and they may not be. There's no proof leaning either way.

Galactus created Silver Surfer and he dwarfs SS in power. At the same time, The Hive created Adam Warlock, and they are nothing to him. Like you said, works both ways. I agree that it does work both ways. GS seemed to imply that things created are always greater in power then their creator. It's true in some cases, but untrue in others (as both you and I pointed out).

The true Beyonders may be weaker then the cosmic cubes, or they may be more powerful. It's inconclusive at best.

Mr Master
True Beyonders are definitely FAR more powerful than even Cosmic Containment Units, which with ONE you can create a Universe.



LT, Eternity, Lord Chaos & Master Order observe two specific creation of the True Beyonders.


Living Tribunal calls the Beyonders, "the INFINITE"
http://img69.imageshack.us/img69/5996/shistory5wo5.th.jpg
"Minute bits of of their Energy" from the True Beyonders, created Post-retcon Molecule Man & Post-retcon Beyonder.



When those "Minute bits of Energy" battle:


"from the Quantum to the Trans-Multiversal, Reality trembles as the forces unleashed reverberate through out creation"
http://img128.imageshack.us/img128/5499/beyonderandmmbattleagainbp6.th.jpghttp://img90.imageshack.us/img90/999/beyonderandmmbattlesagain2rv5.th.jpg
Realize how ALL Reality is falling apart because of them, (both are POST-Retcon).

A WATCHER even goes blind in another Universe.



Not to mention if POST Ret-con Beyonder were to die, the entire Multi-verse would suffer:

"to rend the Life Force of such a being as the Beyonder"
http://img140.imageshack.us/img140/1825/beyonderandmmbattleagain3mu7.th.jpg
"Havoc unthinkable would be wrecked across Multiversal Cosmography"



ALSO:


Thanos became a Full blown Universe with ONE Un-evolved Cosmic Cube (Cosmic Containment Unit)
http://img120.imageshack.us/img120/8240/ccuni1qf3.th.jpg

http://img237.imageshack.us/img237/2097/ccuni2oe1.th.jpg


SO if a "Minute bit of Energy" is capable of this, imagine just ONE Full True Beyonder, and there's an entire Race,

How many?

I don't know.

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