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Fights in some jungle....

Cyclops ftw

Cyclops.

naw, Frank hides up in some tree and snipes him from afar.

Originally posted by braz
naw, Frank hides up in some tree and snipes him from afar.
Nah, Cyclops levels the forest.

cyclops blows him away

Well if cyclops levels the entire forest maybe, but still frank would be ready for that and the jungle would be on his side. He would make a trench or something and just wait for cyclops to trip over one of the many traps he made and just go in for the kill, fairy simple if frank takes his time and is patient, which he is 99% of the time. Especially when he knows this guy and what he can do. Frank 7/10.

Originally posted by jgiant
Well if cyclops levels the entire forest maybe, but still frank would be ready for that and the jungle would be on his side. He would make a trench or something and just wait for cyclops to trip over one of the many traps he made and just go in for the kill, fairy simple if frank takes his time and is patient, which he is 99% of the time. Especially when he knows this guy and what he can do. Frank 7/10.

...So Scott is going to stand still with his eyes closed, while Frank goes around laying traps and making a trench, before they actually start fighting?

Originally posted by SpunkySmurph
...So Scott is going to stand still with his eyes closed, while Frank goes around laying traps and making a trench, before they actually start fighting? Lets see, since the thread starter didn't state the conditions of the fight idk. I thought they were starting in opposite ends of the jungle, but if they are not then frank has little chance. But if frank is given any time at all he will know wat to do, stay low and wait.

cyclops 9/10, 8/10 at worst

frank may be able to pull a lucky win or two.

Originally posted by jgiant
Well if cyclops levels the entire forest maybe, but still frank would be ready for that and the jungle would be on his side. He would make a trench or something and just wait for cyclops to trip over one of the many traps he made and just go in for the kill, fairy simple if frank takes his time and is patient, which he is 99% of the time. Especially when he knows this guy and what he can do. Frank 7/10.
It's a scenario that can work, but Cyclops is not stupid. He's a lot, but stupid he ain't.

Cyclops 7/10.

Originally posted by Madvillain

frank may be able to pull a lucky win or two.

Maybe if Cyclops takes a two-minute long blink

dunno, maybe frank sends a hail of rapid fire ammunition at scott, and one manages to hit im in his skull?

i mean its possible.

Is it that hard to believe frank will pull off a win due to his tactical genius.

How do the bullets get past the wall of energy?

Originally posted by Silent Master
How do the bullets get past the wall of energy? How can scott do anything when he gets the front of his face blown out from a bullet to the back of the head.

Originally posted by jgiant
Is it that hard to believe frank will pull off a win due to his tactical genius.

I'd say he's matched or just barley trumps Cyke, who's been leading X-teams since his teen years. Frank is good, but so is Cyke. I wouldnt give a win to Punisher based on such a small margin

Originally posted by jgiant
How can scott do anything when he gets the front of his face blown out from a bullet to the back of the head.

I see, you have the fight starting with Frank behind Cyclops and Cyclops not knowing he is in a fight.

Originally posted by SpunkySmurph
I'd say he's matched or just barley trumps Cyke, who's been leading X-teams since his teen years. Frank is good, but so is Cyke. I wouldnt give a win to Punisher based on such a small margin Small margin. Frank's tactics and scotts are totally different. Scott has a team to lead, Frank is solo and damn good at it. Scott is usually passive, at least compared to punisher who makes him look like a girl scout. Frank has been killing people with scary skill and going to war when scott was still suckin on his mama's ***.

Scott just takes the visor off...Frank is screwed...

Originally posted by Silent Master
I see, you have the fight starting with Frank behind Cyclops and Cyclops not knowing he is in a fight. The thread started didn't say what the hell is goin on so i think they are starting on two different sides of the jungle. If they are just in front of each other than cyc should take it since his reaction time is faster than punisher's.

Originally posted by jgiant
The thread started didn't say what the hell is goin on so i think they are starting on two different sides of the jungle. If they are just in front of each other than cyc should take it since his reaction time is faster than punisher's. True. But if Frank got about 3 seconds to prepare himself he got a chance. Also if they are in a city or like you said a jungle Frank got a chance by using the field itself. Honestly I don't see him winning this.

If they are starting at two different sides of the jungle, how is Frank going to be able to find Cyclops before Cyke can turn around?

Originally posted by Rewmac
True. But if Frank got about 3 seconds to prepare himself he got a chance. Also if they are in a city or like you said a jungle Frank got a chance by using the field itself. Honestly I don't see him winning this. Thats ok, franks will is alone should win this.

...

I can't believe there is a single person that thinks that Cyclops can beat Frank in a forest. He literly doesn't have a change; this about as one sided as a fight can be. What a joke.

Originally posted by Silent Master
If they are starting at two different sides of the jungle, how is Frank going to be able to find Cyclops before Cyke can turn around? Originally posted by Silent Master
If they are starting at two different sides of the jungle, how is Frank going to be able to find Cyclops before Cyke can turn around? ? Didn't i already say frank is gunna be patient and set up a trap or even something that will let frank know cyc is in the area, thats all he needs.

Originally posted by jgiant
? Didn't i already say frank is gunna be patient and set up a trap or even something that will let frank know cyc is in the area, thats all he needs.

And that stop Cyclops from taking off the visor how?

Originally posted by Faceman
Fights in some jungle.... What weapons does he get and how far away are they from each other?

Originally posted by Silent Master
And that stop Cyclops from taking off the visor how?

...

*sigh*

When Cyclops removes his visor his range is, maybe, 100 yards. How large to you think a forest is? The only thing Cyclops is going to accomplish by doing this is create a lot of noise and reveal his position to an experience military man with years and years of training in gorilla war fare. How is that even remotely a good idea? Cyclops isn't an idiot. He isn't going to go around randomly firing blasts and give his position away. 10/10 Frank finds Cyclops first and snipes him out with even being noticed.

Since when is Cyclops' range limited to 100 yards?

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v97/howdysaysthedrow/X-Men/Blast3.jpg

He does this in a 360 degree turn. He wins

Originally posted by Silent Master
And that stop Cyclops from taking off the visor how? Also said that he is gunna find cover, if he gets in a hole deep enough he will avoid his attack. thats if he takes off his visor, And when the hell does scott ever do that, he did that a few times agains real threats, scott won't take frank seriously, like everyone else and that will be is major downfall.

Originally posted by Blair Wind
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v97/howdysaysthedrow/X-Men/Blast3.jpg

He does this in a 360 degree turn. He wins If frank is deep enough in the ground he will just get buried, not deep enought to kill him tho.

Originally posted by Blair Wind
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v97/howdysaysthedrow/X-Men/Blast3.jpg

He does this in a 360 degree turn. He wins Are you sure that's 100 yards?

Originally posted by jgiant
Also said that he is gunna find cover, if he gets in a hole deep enough he will avoid his attack.thats if he takes off his visor

And the hole gets buried under all the trees that are knocked over



And when the hell does the Punisher go around shooting heroes in the head for no reason?

Originally posted by jgiant
If frank is deep enough in the ground he will just get buried, not deep enought to kill him tho.


How will he get the time to do so? There is not any prep time that I know of. The fight starts, the bell rings, Cyclops fires, frank dies, and Scott goes home.

Originally posted by Silent Master
And the hole gets buried under all the trees that are knocked over



And when the hell does the Punisher go around shooting heroes in the head for no reason? Since when does frank give a fuk, these guys want each other dead and they are going to act like they usually do when faced with an enemy. Frank doesn't hasitate when pulling the trigger and he'll take every precausion and dirty trick he can think of. Scott will think frank is another jerk with a gun and he will be punished for it. Originally posted by Blair Wind
How will he get the time to do so? There is not any prep time that I know of. The fight starts, the bell rings, Cyclops fires, frank dies, and Scott goes home. Well all frank has to do is get low, hit the deck fast, he might get burnt on his back, and if there is a trench nearby, frank probably survies.

Originally posted by Blair Wind
How will he get the time to do so? There is not any prep time that I know of. The fight starts, the bell rings, Cyclops fires, frank dies, and Scott goes home.

Didn't I already explain this?

Originally posted by SpunkySmurph
...So Scott is going to stand still with his eyes closed, while Frank goes around laying traps and making a trench, before they actually start fighting?

Again, frank low, other side of jungle=frank possible survival.

Originally posted by Blair Wind
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v97/howdysaysthedrow/X-Men/Blast3.jpg

He does this in a 360 degree turn. He wins

So Cyclops brillant strategy is to clear a 100 yard patch of forest in every direction and leave him self standing in the middle of a clearing with no cover for a 100 yards in any direction? Do you need me to tell you why that is a bad idea?

Originally posted by jgiant
Since when does frank give a fuk, these guys want each other dead and they are going to act like they usually do when faced with an enemy. Frank doesn't hasitate when pulling the trigger and he'll take every precausion and dirty trick he can think of. Scott will think frank is another jerk with a gun and he will be punished for it. Well all frank has to do is get low, hit the deck fast, he might get burnt on his back, and if there is a trench nearby, frank probably survies.

If they each want the other dead, what is stopping Cyke was taking off the visor?

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
So Cyclops brillant strategy is to clear a 100 yard patch of forest in every direction and leave him self standing in the middle of a clearing with no cover for a 100 yards in any direction? Do you need me to tell you why that is a bad idea?

Again, what comic stats that Cyke only has a range of 100 yards?

Originally posted by Silent Master
If they each want the other dead, what is stopping Cyke was taking off the visor?

The ability to use his brain? Cyclops doesn't know how big the forest is and he doesn't know Franks position in the forest. Cyclops isn't going to take of his visor and start randomly laying waste to the forest. He has no idea where Frank is, why on would he give away his position by creating a lot of noise and damage? It doesn't make an sense. Unless he sees Frank he isn't going to take of his visor. Why? Because it isn't even remotely a good idea.

Originally posted by Silent Master
Again, what comic stats that Cyke only has a range of 100 yards?

Look at that picture champ. When Cyclops took his visor off on the front lawn of the mansion he clear away a patch of land that is maybe (maybe) 50 yards. I'm being generous giving him a the 100 yard range, so unless they are fighting in a football field sized forest it isn't a viable option.

Originally posted by Silent Master
And when the hell does the Punisher go around shooting heroes in the head for no reason?

*cough*

http://img465.imageshack.us/my.php?image=untitled14kw7.jpg

What is Cyke's range?

Originally posted by grey fox
*cough*

http://img465.imageshack.us/my.php?image=untitled14kw7.jpg

So you're going on record as stating that is an example of Frank killing a hero for no reason?

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
Look at that picture champ. When Cyclops took his visor off on the front lawn of the mansion he clear away a patch of land that is maybe (maybe) 50 yards. I'm being generous giving him a the 100 yard range, so unless they are fighting in a football field sized forest it isn't a viable option.

And it's stated where that that is his max range?

from marvel.com

"the beams effective range is 2,000 feet". how any of you are getting 100 yards is beyond me.

http://marvel.com/universe/Cyclops_%28Scott_Summers%29

So who's winning?

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
Look at that picture champ. When Cyclops took his visor off on the front lawn of the mansion he clear away a patch of land that is maybe (maybe) 50 yards. I'm being generous giving him a the 100 yard range, so unless they are fighting in a football field sized forest it isn't a viable option.

Was that stated ever as his maximum? Was he unable to power it anymore? Or are you making misguided assumptions?

Hmmm...

Originally posted by Silent Master
So you're going on record as stating that is an example of Frank killing a hero for no reason?

It's called humour.

You stated when has punisher shot heroes in the head , and 'Technically' Spidey was the bad-guy in that situation and legally those two were the heroes.

And frank ventilated their skulls

Originally posted by SpunkySmurph
Was that stated ever as his maximum? Was he unable to power it anymore? Or are you making misguided assumptions?

Hmmm...

His visor controls the power and the intensity of the beam, not him. When he takes his visor off he is getting 100% so the fact that the damage didn't go past 100 yards is proof that his maxium range is likely around 100 yards.

Originally posted by grey fox
It's called humour.

You stated when has punisher shot heroes in the head , and 'Technically' Spidey was the bad-guy in that situation and legally those two were the heroes.

And frank ventilated their skulls

So thats a yes?

Originally posted by Madvillain
from marvel.com

"the beams effective range is 2,000 feet". how any of you are getting 100 yards is beyond me.

http://marvel.com/universe/Cyclops_%28Scott_Summers%29

Originally posted by Silent Master
So thats a yes?

Not exactly , I mean From a legal stand-point there was ' No Reason' for Punisher to shoot them. They were restraining a prisoner , but since they were former villains it's pretty much a death sentence .

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
His visor controls the power and the intensity of the beam, not him. When he takes his visor off he is getting 100% so the fact that the damage didn't go past 100 yards is proof that his maxium range is likely around 100 yards.

and no he wasn't at 100%, the only time he's ever been close to full power was when Bishop was channeling his optic blasts, which could have killed them both.

Originally posted by Madvillain
and no he wasn't at 100%, the only time he's ever been close to full power was when Bishop was channeling his optic blasts, which could have killed them both.

What are you talking about champ? Cyclops was using full power. His brain can't regulate the energy out put of his blasts so with out his visor his blasts default at 100%. And Cyclops has gone full power more then once. You don't honestly think that X-Men: Civil War was the first time?

And if you were wondering the reason why that was damaging to both Cyclops and Bishop was that it was a sustained blast.

Why bother reading comics if you aren't going to pay attention?

And when does cyc ever take off his visor for a guy with guns? He is gunna underestimate frank and go hunting for him, periodically blasting sh!t. Which will give his position away, which will give frank the win.

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
What are you talking about champ? Cyclops was using full power. His brain can't regulate the energy out put of his blasts so with out his visor his blasts default at 100%. And Cyclops has gone full power more then once. You don't honestly think that X-Men: Civil War was the first time?

And if you were wondering the reason why that was damaging to both Cyclops and Bishop was that it was a sustained blast.

Why bother reading comics if you aren't going to pay attention?

ehh, the marvel.com still states the range at 2,000. i'd take their word over yours any day.

and besides, the blast to the sentinel was a spread blast...it won't be as far as a linear one. common sense.

Originally posted by jgiant
And when does cyc ever take off his visor for a guy with guns? He is gunna underestimate frank and go hunting for him, periodically blasting sh!t. Which will give his position away, which will give frank the win.

Wow... an actually sensible argument for why Frank will win.

Fair enough, jgiant. I'll give Cyclops only 9/10 now.

well a wide spread blast is the only way cyc has a chance.

Originally posted by SpunkySmurph
Wow... an actually sensible argument for why Frank will win.

Fair enough, jgiant. I'll give Cyclops only 9/10 now. Haha, Yeah! Im almost there, i am so close to victory i can taste it. Don't worry frank ima take this one home for ya.

Originally posted by SpunkySmurph
Wow... an actually sensible argument for why Frank will win.

Fair enough, jgiant. I'll give Cyclops only 9/10 now. So if you agree that cyc will probably fallow that strategy in this fight, than how would cyc win? And me posting alot just gives me more creadiblity.

Originally posted by jgiant
So if you agree that cyc will probably fallow that strategy in this fight, than how would cyc win?

I think that Cyke, when written properly, has uncanny aim with his visor, being that he only needs to look to shoot at exactly that spot. Punisher, who lacks any sort of super reflexes/speed or anything that could serve as a form of precognition, without PIS, should be toast.

Originally posted by jgiant
And when does cyc ever take off his visor for a guy with guns? He is gunna underestimate frank and go hunting for him, periodically blasting sh!t. Which will give his position away, which will give frank the win.

Give Cyclops some credit. He knows who Frank is, he isn't going to under estimate him and that is the reason he wouldn't take of his visor and do some large scale land scaping. He knows who Frank Castle is, he has at least some idea what kind of training the man has gone through and most of all he knows it is not in his best interests to freely give away his postion. It would be the worst possible thing for Cyclops to give Frank Castle a frame of reference to where he is when he can force him to comb the forest until he finds his trail. This fight his a game of hide and seek, either Cyclops finds Punisher first and he wins or Punisher finds Cyclops first and he wins. 9/10 ten Frank Castle is going to win, he is in his element.

Originally posted by Madvillain
ehh, the marvel.com still states the range at 2,000. i'd take their word over yours any day.

I have trading cards published by Marvel that say that Sabretooth is a better fighter then Captain America. Does that mean anything? No. Why? Because Marvel's handbooks, bios and cards are all companion pieces meant for collectors and roleplay enthusiasts. They aren't "Marvel's official view on the mater," I fact I doubt the editors take more then a casually glance at what is actually written down.

Actually in a recent X-men comic isn't been stated that Cyclops has never used more than a fraction of his full power.

The scans are somewhere on herochat but the search feature isn't working for me right now.

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
I have trading cards published by Marvel that say that Sabretooth is a better fighter then Captain America. Does that mean anything? No. Why? Because Marvel's handbooks, bios and cards are all companion pieces meant for collectors and roleplay enthusiasts. They aren't "Marvel's official view on the mater," I fact I doubt the editors take more then a casually glance at what is actually written down. Yeah those bastards.

Originally posted by Silent Master
Actually in a recent X-men comic isn't been stated that Cyclops has never used more than a fraction of his full power.

The scans are somewhere on herochat but the search feature isn't working for me right now. Regardless, scott is not using a full blast in this fight unless he is totally out of character.

Originally posted by Silent Master
Actually in a recent X-men comic isn't been stated that Cyclops has never used more than a fraction of his full power.

The scans are somewhere on herochat but the search feature isn't working for me right now.

WIS. If he could control the energy out put of his blasts he wouldn't need his visor. With out his visor he is going all out and there isn't anything he can do about it.

Originally posted by jgiant
Regardless, scott is not using a full blast in this fight unless he is totally out of character.

Really. It would be the same as Cyclops walking through the forest wearing a siren on his head and holding a sign with flashing neon lights. Nothing his going to get him killed faster then giving his postion away with a huge blast.

Originally posted by jgiant
Regardless, scott is not using a full blast in this fight unless he is totally out of character.

Kind of like Frank going around killing heroes for no reason.

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
WIS. If he could control the energy out put of his blasts he wouldn't need his visor. With out his visor he is going all out and there isn't anything he can do about it.

He just can't turn them off, it's never been stated that he can't control the level of blast.

Originally posted by Silent Master
Kind of like Frank going around killing heroes for no reason.

He killed Stiltman who was a reformed hero.

Since when has Stiltman been a hero

Originally posted by Silent Master
Kind of like Frank going around killing heroes for no reason. That makes no sense...they are to conduct themselves as if they were gunna kill each other...so can i just say, its out of character for punisher to go around and trin and fight cyc h2h...Are u saying its in character for scott to go around and use a full optic blast to try and kill an opponent who is human and poses much smaller theat than those he usually faces and uses controled blasts? Even if he did, he would then have to continually do a twirl around and around, and that is just stupid. Theoretically he can do this, but why? Punisher could go in there like an idiot with guns blazin but why?

Originally posted by Silent Master
Since when has Stiltman been a hero U read punisher:war journal 1? He was trin to apprehend a pedifile, but punisher blew his ass up, literally. Once a criminal always a criminal.

So he is a hero because he did one good deed?

Originally posted by jgiant
That makes no sense...they are to conduct themselves as if they were gunna kill each other...so can i just say, its out of character for punisher to go around and trin and fight cyc h2h...Are u saying its in character for scott to go around and use a full optic blast to try and kill an opponent who is human and poses much smaller theat than those he usually faces and uses controled blasts? Even if he did, he would then have to continually do a twirl around and around, and that is just stupid. Theoretically he can do this, but why? Punisher could go in there like an idiot with guns blazin but why?

I'm saying if you are having one character act OOC you don't get to complain when the other side does the same.

Originally posted by Silent Master
So he is a hero because he did one good deed? Thats not the point, scott is the enemy to frank, no better than any other scumbag he blows away every day...

Originally posted by jgiant
Thats not the point, scott is the enemy to frank, no better than any other scumbag he blows away every day...

Then Frank is no better than those Scott has used the wide beams on.

Originally posted by Silent Master
I'm saying if you are having one character act OOC you don't get to complain when the other side does the same. Thats totally different, these are battle tactics, these are deciding factors for the win, its just as important as strength, agility, ect...

Originally posted by Silent Master
Then Frank is no better than those Scott has used the wide beams on. But how often does he do that? And even if he does, if he doesn't kno where to start he is just gunna blas in one general direction giving his position away for frank to capitalize on.

Originally posted by jgiant
Thats totally different, these are battle tactics, these are deciding factors for the win, its just as important as strength, agility, ect...

If shooting people in the head is a battle tactic, so is using wide beams.

Originally posted by Silent Master
If shooting people in the head is a battle tactic, so is using wide beams. Has he ever used it against a human enemy, in fact, how many times has he used it in his history?

Originally posted by jgiant
Has he ever used it against a human enemy, in fact, how many times has he used it in his history?

About as often as Frank has used shooting people in the head against actual heroes for no reason.

Originally posted by Silent Master
About as often as Frank has used shooting people in the head against actual heroes for no reason. Again with this! Does anyone else think this is just stupid? These guys are suppose to fight each other like they would any other enemy. So what the hell is ur point? Seriously, we are on two different pages of two different books written in two different langages.

Bloodlust

It is assumed that each contestant will fight to his/her best ability, but still within the character's personality, unless specified otherwise. That means they will use any powers at their disposal. For example, even though The Flash doesn't clock each of his own opponents in the first picosecond in his own comic, it is assumed that is a viable tactic on this board since it is a proven fact that he possesses that level of speed.
It is also assumed that the characters fight at their optimum levels of ability - not explicitly weakened or unusually powered up for those who have variable power levels. DOES THIS MAKE U UNDERSTAND WHERE I AM COMING FROM?

Cyclops has used wide beams before on enemies

Originally posted by Silent Master
About as often as Frank has used shooting people in the head against actual heroes for no reason. So ur saying this is inaccurate?

I'm saying that if you have one person act OOC you don't get to complain when the other side does the same.

Originally posted by Silent Master
I'm saying that if you have one person act OOC you don't get to complain when the other side does the same. Im truely sorry, but i can't be more blunt. The rules back me on this one, so i don't kno what ur trin to say. THEY ARE ENEMIES IN THIS FIGHT, THATS THE ONLY THING THAT IS ALLOWED TO BE OOC.

Then Punisher doesn't get to shoot Cyke in the head

Originally posted by Silent Master
Then Punisher doesn't get to shoot Cyke in the head Than scott doesn't get to use his eye beams. What are u tring to prove, im i seriously going insane? Are u just tring to get me frustrated, its kinda working, congradulations, ok deep breaths. Well i see this is going no where at lightspeed, back on topic. So how is scott gunna win according to you.

Punisher shooting heroes in the head is OOC just like Cyke using wide beams on humans, if you get to have Frank act OOC, I get to do the same for Cyke.

Originally posted by Silent Master
Punisher shooting heroes in the head is OOC just like Cyke using wide beams on humans, if you get to have Frank act OOC, I get to do the same for Cyke. Ohh is that where the confusion is, ok. Sorry for the confusion, but i ment, he won't think he is a threat cuz he is human so he will just use smaller blasts and shit looking for him.

Originally posted by Silent Master
Punisher shooting heroes in the head is OOC just like Cyke using wide beams on humans, if you get to have Frank act OOC, I get to do the same for Cyke.

The idea of forum fights is for charactersa to be motivated enough to fight to the best of their ability. This implies that Punisher would be looking to shoot to kill in this fight. Seeing as Cyclops, IC would be doing the same.

Originally posted by SpunkySmurph
The idea of forum fights is for charactersa to be motivated enough to fight to the best of their ability. This implies that Punisher would be looking to shoot to kill in this fight. Seeing as Cyclops, IC would be doing the same.

In which case Cyke would have no problems using wide beams, that was my point.

He was trying to discount the use of wide beams by saying that's OOC for Scott all the while having Frank use head shots on a hero.

Originally posted by Silent Master
In which case Cyke would have no problems using wide beams, that was my point.

He was trying to discount the use of wide beams by saying that's OOC for Scott all the while having Frank use head shots on a hero.

But I would argue that it is easily feasable for Frank to be using head shots on a hero. He shoots to kill. However, IC, Scotts not going to use a FP blast on a human. He'd see it as overkill. It's like using a flamethrower to light a birthday cake.

Originally posted by Silent Master
In which case Cyke would have no problems using wide beams, that was my point.

He was trying to discount the use of wide beams by saying that's OOC for Scott all the while having Frank use head shots on a hero. So ur saying scott is gunna start the fight by just using a wide blast?

Originally posted by SpunkySmurph
But I would argue that it is easily feasable for Frank to be using head shots on a hero. He shoots to kill. However, IC, Scotts not going to use a FP blast on a human. He'd see it as overkill. It's like using a flamethrower to light a birthday cake. WOW! We agree again, i think its a sign of the end of times!

If it's the Punisher and he's trying to kill Cyclops, it's completely in character for him to use whatever it takes to bring him down. X-Men generally do not kill, but they will kill if necessary.

To silent masters defense i think he was talking about me saying it would be out of character for scott to kill human with the optic blast, which would be regardless in this fight. Though i didn't mean that it might have sounded like i do. If you didn't i would just lie and say u did cuz this ain't getting any better.

Originally posted by SpunkySmurph
But I would argue that it is easily feasable for Frank to be using head shots on a hero. He shoots to kill. However, IC, Scotts not going to use a FP blast on a human. He'd see it as overkill. It's like using a flamethrower to light a birthday cake.

If Cyke is trying to kill Frank why would he be worried about overkill?

Originally posted by Silent Master
If Cyke is trying to kill Frank why would he be worried about overkill? Out of character, i don't think there is any way of convincing you otherwise, maybe u have to sleep on it. Anywho, how does scott win again?

Originally posted by jgiant
So ur saying scott is gunna start the fight by just using a wide blast?

No, just that it's possible seeing as he is trying to kill Frank, personally I don't think he fire until he knew Frank was near, like he did when he snuck up on Wolverine.

Originally posted by Silent Master
No, just that it's possible seeing as he is trying to kill Frank, personally I don't think he fire until he knew Frank was near, like he did when he snuck up on Wolverine. Ok now were getting somewhere. Forget about those last posts. Your saying scott is gunna sneak up on frank in his own environment? I say frank's huge advantage is that it is in a jungle.

I wouldn't say he manages to sneak up on him everytime, but he did manage to do it to Wolverine so I don't see it as impossible.

Originally posted by Silent Master
I wouldn't say he manages to sneak up on him everytime, but he did manage to do it to Wolverine so I don't see it as impossible. I'd call psi on that wolvie sneek up. Wolvie should be able to smell him before he got the drop, u have any scans?

Originally posted by jgiant
WOW! We agree again, i think its a sign of the end of times!



Well, I gotta give credit where it's due, right?

Oh, and Cyke still takes this

No, but it was when the X-men were tricked into thinking he was Dark Phoenix.

Originally posted by SpunkySmurph


Well, I gotta give credit where it's due, right?

Oh, and Cyke still takes this Damn i almost thought i made u turn to the dark side. Originally posted by Silent Master
No, but it was when the X-men were tricked into thinking he was Dark Phoenix. Ohh, i say wolvie would have sensed him a while before he got near him.

Originally posted by Faceman
Fights in some jungle....

You didn't clarify this match enough.

How far apart do they start?

Do they get prep?

What's Punisher's arsenal?

All these things need to be answered.

Originally posted by Metalmanx
You didn't clarify this match enough.

How far apart do they start?

Do they get prep?

What's Punisher's arsenal?

All these things need to be answered. If they start on different sides of the jungle and the punisher has an m16 and a .45 or two, he can do it without prep. He'll use the time it takes scott to even come close to him to set up some environmental traps or something that will actually make pun aware of scotts presence and then he just waits for the right time to clip him.

That assumes that Cyke tries to find him instead of just making traps himself or just finds a place where Punisher has to come at him from the front.

Originally posted by Metalmanx
You didn't clarify this match enough.

How far apart do they start?

Do they get prep?

What's Punisher's arsenal?

All these things need to be answered.


1. On opposite sides of the jungle...

2. They have been told that the other person is their enemy...

3. Standard gear

Originally posted by pr1983
thank god someone said it...



wrong. he controls the blast the way you or i would focus with our eyes...



he cant turn them off, thats why he wears the visor...



check the cyclops respect thread, i put them there myself... and he had set the danger room to help hide him better...



Alrighty... i actually think punisher has 3 or 4 wins, but i give the majority to cyke, he's incredibly underrated as a tactician (even fury referred to him as a, and i quote, 'master strategist'). And frank is not a "master strategist", frank is not moving from his position, scott will be first to go for frank knowing he might have the upper hand cuz of his power. Frank will then know where he is and scott will die. Frank 8/10

Originally posted by jgiant
And frank is not a "master strategist", frank is not moving from his position, scott will be first to go for frank knowing he might have the upper hand cuz of his power. Frank will then know where he is and scott will die. Frank 8/10

i never said frank wasnt...

why is everyone so sure that frank will stay still but cyke will wander through the jungle blindly?

he knows frank (and frank knows him obviously), cyke isnt going to just walk through the jungle, he's just as likely to bide his time and wait...

and cyke will not, for one second, assume he has an advantage because of his power, if anything he'd consider it a hindrance...

Originally posted by pr1983
i never said frank wasnt...

why is everyone so sure that frank will stay still but cyke will wander through the jungle blindly?

he knows frank (and frank knows him obviously), cyke isnt going to just walk through the jungle, he's just as likely to bide his time and wait...

and cyke will not, for one second, assume he has an advantage because of his power, if anything he'd consider it a hindrance... Ok, lets say frank goes after scott, which he probably won't. He is in his element and will not be taken off guard. He served 3 tours in nam' and has fought off a master sniper called the monkey while there. Frank was a prisoner and escaped, as he wandered the jungle he found his men and killed them and then pained a skull, which was reminisent of the monkey medalion worn by the sniper (eventually to be punisher's skull) and he drew the monkey out of hinding and when the he was looking through his sniping scope frank waited and watched, and saw his reflection off the scope and frank shot him right through the scope. This was just when he got started, frank has had thirty years plus experience since then.

Originally posted by jgiant
Ok, lets say frank goes after scott, which he probably won't. He is in his element and will not be taken off guard. He served 3 tours in nam' and has fought off a master sniper called the monkey while there. Frank was a prisoner and escaped, as he wandered the jungle he found his men and killed them and then pained a skull, which was reminisent of the monkey medalion worn by the sniper (eventually to be punisher's skull) and he drew the monkey out of hinding and when the he was looking through his sniping scope frank waited and watched, and saw his reflection off the scope and frank shot him right through the scope. This was just when he got started, frank has had thirty years plus experience since then.

i'm not, for one second, underestimating the punisher, he's a badass in every sense of the word... but he's only human... scott has abilities frank doesn't, and not just his optic blasts, he also has an almost crazy level of accuracy...

he's up there with the best tacticians and leaders in marvel... i think frank winning 8/10 is a bit over the top...

Originally posted by pr1983
i'm not, for one second, underestimating the punisher, he's a badass in every sense of the word... but he's only human... scott has abilities frank doesn't, and not just his optic blasts, he also has an almost crazy level of accuracy...

he's up there with the best tacticians and leaders in marvel... i think frank winning 8/10 is a bit over the top... Scott is a great tactision no doubt, but he is a use to working as a team. Scott is not use to dealing with someone as stone cold and brilliant in battle as frank. This environment is gunna hurt scott's chances of winning.

Originally posted by jgiant
Scott is a great tactision no doubt, but he is a use to working as a team. Scott is not use to dealing with someone as stone cold and brilliant in battle as frank. This environment is gunna hurt scott's chances of winning.

he's fought on his own before... he's no slouch when it comes to one on one combat...

and he's dealt with magneto (who will basically kill anyone who opposes him), apocalypse (only the strongest survive), the brood, the shiar etc. and come out alive...

i don't think the environment is that big a hindrance to him at all... when the other x-men thought he was dark phoenix, the setting he created in the danger room was actually a jungle setting... and he managed to take down wolverine, colossus and storm, all with broken ribs...

Originally posted by pr1983
he's fought on his own before... he's no slouch when it comes to one on one combat...

and he's dealt with magneto (who will basically kill anyone who opposes him), apocalypse (only the strongest survive), the brood, the shiar etc. and come out alive...

i don't think the environment is that big a hindrance to him at all... when the other x-men thought he was dark phoenix, the setting he created in the danger room was actually a jungle setting... and he managed to take down wolverine, colossus and storm, all with broken ribs... Impressive, is there all links in the cyc respect thread about this danger room pwning.

Originally posted by pr1983
thank god someone said it...



wrong. he controls the blast the way you or i would focus with our eyes...



he cant turn them off, thats why he wears the visor...



check the cyclops respect thread, i put them there myself... and he had set the danger room to help hide him better...



Alrighty... i actually think punisher has 3 or 4 wins, but i give the majority to cyke, he's incredibly underrated as a tactician (even fury referred to him as a, and i quote, 'master strategist').

You said everything that I was going to say. Rock on.

Cyke has a pretty good shot at winning this, but I have to give the majority to the Punisher because his guns have a better range than Cyclops' beams and I think the jungle favors Frank's style of fighting. Frank would probably run like hell to get out of Cyke's range using the jungle for cover and then this becomes a one-sided battle. Tough to say though. Either combatant has the ability to end this simply by hitting with the first shot and Scott is a great strategist, but I don't know if he has what it takes to overcome the Punisher's advantages.

I'll say Punisher 6/10

Originally posted by jgiant
Impressive, is there all links in the cyc respect thread about this danger room pwning.

yes, i'll find em for you...



Originally posted by Metalmanx
You said everything that I was going to say. Rock on.



Originally posted by Sabretooth
Cyke has a pretty good shot at winning this, but I have to give the majority to the Punisher because his guns have a better range than Cyclops' beams and I think the jungle favors Frank's style of fighting. Frank would probably run like hell to get out of Cyke's range using the jungle for cover and then this becomes a one-sided battle. Tough to say though. Either combatant has the ability to end this simply by hitting with the first shot and Scott is a great strategist, but I don't know if he has what it takes to overcome the Punisher's advantages.

I'll say Punisher 6/10

you have a point, but i think cyke is capable of taking it, he is younger than frank (so i would assume has more stamina, he trains at least as much as frank too), has his blasts, has fought one on one before, and not alot of people would say this, but i believe that cyke, because of his condition, would have developed his other senses to a pretty decent level...

Originally posted by pr1983
yes, i'll find em for you...









you have a point, but i think cyke is capable of taking it, he is younger than frank (so i would assume has more stamina, he trains at least as much as frank too), has his blasts, has fought one on one before, and not alot of people would say this, but i believe that cyke, because of his condition, would have developed his other senses to a pretty decent level... Thats pretty badass for scott, but nothing that makes me say he's better than frank.

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
What are you talking about champ? Cyclops was using full power. His brain can't regulate the energy out put of his blasts so with out his visor his blasts default at 100%. And Cyclops has gone full power more then once. You don't honestly think that X-Men: Civil War was the first time?

Considering it was pretty much a retcon of every single instance that was previously stated on him going at full power.....

Bump

Originally posted by jgiant
Thats pretty badass for scott, but nothing that makes me say he's better than frank.

fair enough i guess...

Originally posted by Sixth_Winged
Considering it was pretty much a retcon of every single instance that was previously stated on him going at full power.....



Originally posted by Faceman
Bump

why?

Originally posted by Faceman
1. On opposite sides of the jungle...

2. They have been told that the other person is their enemy...

3. Standard gear

Why not pr ?

Originally posted by pr1983


i don't think the environment is that big a hindrance to him at all... when the other x-men thought he was dark phoenix, the setting he created in the danger room was actually a jungle setting... and he managed to take down wolverine, colossus and storm, all with broken ribs...

Bare in mind that Wolverine stated that Danger Room had neutralised his sense of smell, so thats one reason why Cyke was able to take him out, but still impressive.

* because whatever Punisher has, Cyclops also has... plus a mutant ability...

Originally posted by peejayd
* because whatever Punisher has, Cyclops also has... plus a mutant ability...

Er ok dont exaggerate now. Cyclops is good at H2H but I wouldnt put him on the same level as Punisher.

Originally posted by Faceman
Why not pr ?

Originally posted by peejayd
* because whatever Punisher has, Cyclops also has... plus a mutant ability...

Hey pr !

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Er ok dont exaggerate now. Cyclops is good at H2H but I wouldnt put him on the same level as Punisher.

Most people'd say they're quite comparable.

Assuming Cyclops doesn't take the easy way out and just walk through the jungle with his visor off I'll give this to Frank 6/10. His experience in Vietnam gives him the edge here. Frank we'll be going for the kill and he'll be laying mines and claymores all through the jungle as he passes. Oh and in H2H Punisher is superior.

Originally posted by Soljer
Most people'd say they're quite comparable.

Guess you could say that but I would still expect most people to say that Frank is better.

Punisher>Cyclops in H2H and arguably is the better tactitian.

Originally posted by Darth Martin
Punisher>Cyclops in H2H and arguably is the better tactitian.

Hand to hand, I could see people arguing.

Tactician? Strategist?

Hell.

No.

That's a curbstomp in Scott's favor.

Originally posted by Soljer
Hand to hand, I could see people arguing.

Tactician? Strategist?

Hell.

No.

That's a curbstomp in Scott's favor.

i am biased i'll admit, but hells yeah...

even fury said scott was genius level when it comes to tactical thinking...

h2h scott is a decent (if underrated) fighter, and he's younger and more likely in better shape than frank imo...

Originally posted by pr1983
i am biased i'll admit, but hells yeah...

even fury said scott was genius level when it comes to tactical thinking...



Yeah ok what tactical feats does he have that make him a genuis. Obvoulsy being the leader of X men and X Factor you have to be smart but whats he done that makes him better than Punisher.

Originally posted by pr1983

h2h scott is a decent (if underrated) fighter, and he's younger and more likely in better shape than frank imo...

I dont really think that matters in the comicbooks.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Yeah ok what tactical feats does he have that make him a genuis. Obvoulsy being the leader of X men and X Factor you have to be smart but whats he done that makes him better than Punisher.

you're kidding... you think it was wolverine's rage or colossus' strength that made sure that the team succeeded against the apocalypses, the magneto's and the sinister's of the world more often than not?

even the latest arc in astonishing showed that his tactical thinking is pretty damn impressive...



this isnt a comic though, its a forum battle...

Originally posted by pr1983
you're kidding... you think it was wolverine's rage or colossus' strength that made sure that the team succeeded against the apocalypses, the magneto's and the sinister's of the world more often than not?

even the latest arc in astonishing showed that his tactical thinking is pretty damn impressive...



this isnt a comic though, its a forum battle...

The latest Astonishing = complete Cyke-wankery.

Not that he doesn't deserve it.

Originally posted by pr1983
you're kidding... you think it was wolverine's rage or colossus' strength that made sure that the team succeeded against the apocalypses, the magneto's and the sinister's of the world more often than not?.


even the latest arc in astonishing showed that his tactical thinking is pretty damn impressive...



this isnt a comic though, its a forum battle...



Er is that what I said why are you jumping the gun? I never said that Cyclops was dumb and stated he has to be good at strategy to lead them.....gosh. Im just asking for examples that put him above Punisher.

Originally posted by pr1983


this isnt a comic though, its a forum battle...

Yeah so Cyclops has been around since the 60s (I think), so that makes him old as well? Hell shouldnt Franklin Richards be an adult by now, so if we have any vs batlles with Franklin will make him an adult shall we?

Originally posted by Soljer
The latest Astonishing = complete Cyke-wankery.

Not that he doesn't deserve it.

not out of character though...

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Er is that what I said why are you jumping the gun? I never said that Cyclops was dumb and stated he has to be good at strategy to lead them.....gosh. Im just asking for examples that put him above Punisher.

i'm not jumping the gun, sorry if it seemed that way...

there are examples in the respect thread...